02/02/2014 The Andrew Marr Show


02/02/2014

Similar Content

Browse content similar to 02/02/2014. Check below for episodes and series from the same categories and more!

Transcript


LineFromTo

Good morning. For those of you who stayed up late to watch the final

:00:34.:00:39.

episode of The Bridge on BBC Four last night, all I can say is thank

:00:40.:00:44.

you for joining us this early. Or as Saga from Malmo would say, "Tak". If

:00:45.:00:48.

you're suffering withdrawal symptoms from all things Nordic, you have

:00:49.:00:52.

come to the right place. We have got a powerful female politician, an

:00:53.:00:55.

enigmatic right-winger pulling the strings and some retro-cool. No

:00:56.:01:00.

exuberant knitwear - the studio's too hot - and, so far, no corpses

:01:01.:01:05.

either. Joining me today for our review of

:01:06.:01:08.

the Sunday newspapers, the Guardian's associate editor, Michael

:01:09.:01:10.

White, and Benedicte Paviot, correspondent for the French

:01:11.:01:13.

international news channel, France 24.

:01:14.:01:19.

Pick up some of those papers this morning, and there is one man who

:01:20.:01:23.

dominates above all. Michael Gove, the Education Secretary, is under

:01:24.:01:26.

attack for firing a supportive Labour woman, Baroness Morgan, as

:01:27.:01:28.

chair of the school inspectorate, and for his latest ideas about

:01:29.:01:34.

school discipline. He is also one of the more outspokenly Eurosceptic

:01:35.:01:37.

members of the Cabinet, so it is a good time to be talking to Mr Gove,

:01:38.:01:42.

a friend of the prime minister, in a week when David Cameron has been

:01:43.:01:44.

struggling over his all-important European policy.

:01:45.:01:48.

Labour have had a controversial week, too, however. Ed Miliband's

:01:49.:01:51.

radical reforms of his party's links with the unions could lose Labour ?4

:01:52.:01:55.

million a year, it is being said today. Others say it is a total

:01:56.:01:59.

surrender to the union activists, who will take the party much further

:02:00.:02:03.

to the left. Deputy leader Harriet Harman is here to deal with

:02:04.:02:06.

accusations that her party is making it easier for the unions to control

:02:07.:02:12.

Labour's policies. Since the dawn of cinema, Charles

:02:13.:02:15.

Dickens' books have been fine fodder for film-makers. Later, I will be

:02:16.:02:19.

talking to actor and director Ralph Fiennes, who has made a new film

:02:20.:02:23.

about Dickens and his secret mistress. She is the mother of your

:02:24.:02:32.

children. And for that, I shall always be grateful, but I do not

:02:33.:02:34.

love her. And we have live music. Still

:02:35.:02:38.

causing a commotion after all these years, Lloyd Cole is back with a new

:02:39.:02:40.

album and a new band. album and a new band.

:02:41.:02:49.

# I can't stop pushing you away, pushing you away.

:02:50.:02:52.

First, over to Naga for the morning's news headlines. Good

:02:53.:02:55.

morning. The Education Secretary Michael Gove is urging head teachers

:02:56.:02:59.

in England to clamp down on bad behaviour in the classroom. He's

:03:00.:03:02.

issued new guidelines encouraging schools to make use of

:03:03.:03:05.

"old-fashioned" ways of punishing pupils including writing lines,

:03:06.:03:07.

picking up litter and serving detentions at the weekend.

:03:08.:03:20.

Maintaining discipline in the classroom is a challenge for schools

:03:21.:03:23.

everywhere. We doubt it, teaching and learning can become difficult,

:03:24.:03:29.

even impossible. Now, Michael Gove, in new guidance to English schools,

:03:30.:03:35.

is telling teachers that tough, but proportionate punishments are

:03:36.:03:38.

crucial to an effective education. He says that simply rewarding good

:03:39.:03:42.

behaviour is not enough. Michael Gove wants teachers to make more use

:03:43.:03:47.

of traditional punishments, like writing lines or making children

:03:48.:03:50.

attend early-morning detention sessions, before school. He is also

:03:51.:03:57.

talking about imposing community service-style punishments, like

:03:58.:04:01.

bigging up litter or cleaning the treaty. The Education Secretary says

:04:02.:04:04.

research shows that one in three secondary teachers don't feel

:04:05.:04:10.

confident disciplining pupils, and that 700,000 children are in schools

:04:11.:04:14.

where behaviour is lacking. The teaching unions are unconvinced. The

:04:15.:04:20.

Association of teachers and lecturers has accused Mr Gove of

:04:21.:04:22.

behaving bizarrely, pointing out that inspector has said behaviour is

:04:23.:04:28.

rated good or better in 90% of schools, while the Headteachers'

:04:29.:04:33.

union branded it as a PR exercise. Teachers are not getting any new

:04:34.:04:37.

powers with this guidance, just encouragement from the Education

:04:38.:04:42.

Secretary to make tougher use of the powers they already have.

:04:43.:04:50.

The row over the removal of Lady Morgan, the chair of the schools

:04:51.:04:53.

inspection service, Ofsted, has intensified. The Liberal Democrat

:04:54.:04:56.

education minister, David Laws, has accused Michael Gove of making the

:04:57.:04:59.

decision for political reasons. A source close to Mr Laws said he was

:05:00.:05:02.

determined not to let Mr Gove undermine Ofsted's independence.

:05:03.:05:05.

Downing Street has rejected claims by Lady Morgan - who's a Labour peer

:05:06.:05:09.

- that it's trying to fill the top jobs on public bodies with

:05:10.:05:13.

Conservative supporters. High tides and strong winds of

:05:14.:05:17.

nearly 85 miles an hour have driven waves onto the seafront at

:05:18.:05:19.

Aberystwyth, for the second time this year. Meanwhile, three severe

:05:20.:05:22.

flood warnings - which means there is danger to life - are in place

:05:23.:05:26.

along the River Severn in Gloucestershire. The Environment

:05:27.:05:28.

Secretary Owen Paterson says "everything possible" is being done

:05:29.:05:31.

to help those affected by flooding, with forecasters warning there's

:05:32.:05:39.

more bad weather to come. Aberystwyth last night, once again

:05:40.:05:42.

feeling the force of nature as gusts of up to 84 mph battered the Welsh

:05:43.:05:47.

coastline. It is just a month since another storm hit this same

:05:48.:05:52.

promenade on a deserted after hundreds of students living nearby

:05:53.:05:55.

were moved. The latest warnings come after the wettest January on record

:05:56.:05:59.

for piles of southern England . In the Midlands, south-west and

:06:00.:06:04.

south-east, around 150 properties have been flooded. In Devon and

:06:05.:06:07.

Somerset, the fire service has organised its biggest ever flood

:06:08.:06:13.

training operation. We are moving in excess of 3 million litres an hour,

:06:14.:06:16.

the equivalent of one Olympic swimming pool every hour. This is

:06:17.:06:21.

the famous Severn bore, the result of high tides surging up the river.

:06:22.:06:27.

Ridden by surfers yesterday, despite warnings of the dangers. More than

:06:28.:06:31.

100 flood warnings are in place across England and Wales. Today

:06:32.:06:35.

might provide a little respite, with rains and winds expected to ease,

:06:36.:06:38.

but more bad weather is forecast in the coming days.

:06:39.:06:41.

The head of the health watchdog the Care Quality Commission has made a

:06:42.:06:44.

strong attack on the NHS in England, saying it'll go bust without radical

:06:45.:06:47.

change. David Prior also said the organisation stigmatises those who

:06:48.:06:52.

try to speak out. The Department of Health says it's trying to eradicate

:06:53.:06:57.

poor care and supports openness. Voting in Thailand's general

:06:58.:07:00.

election - boycotted by the opposition and blighted by protests

:07:01.:07:03.

- is coming to an end. Anti-government protesters are

:07:04.:07:05.

trying to disrupt the vote and continue their campaign to force

:07:06.:07:10.

prime minister Shinawatra to resign. Yesterday, clashes between rival

:07:11.:07:12.

demonstrators left several people injured.

:07:13.:07:17.

That's all from me for now. I'll be back with the headlines just before

:07:18.:07:24.

ten o'clock. Back to you, Andrew. Front-page headlines as usual, but

:07:25.:07:28.

you have heard most of these stories just now. Michael Gove is being

:07:29.:07:31.

attacked on the front of the Observer by the Liberal Democrats.

:07:32.:07:34.

He is on the front page of the Independent on Sunday, being

:07:35.:07:38.

attacked by the Liberal Democrats. There is the Sunday Telegraph with

:07:39.:07:42.

that story about NHS care and the Care Quality Commission. They also

:07:43.:07:46.

have a story about immigrant crime. The Sunday Times has a story about

:07:47.:07:52.

corrupt detectives. There was a lot of coverage of England's defeat in

:07:53.:07:56.

Paris as well in the rugby. The Mail on Sunday has a deadly risk of a

:07:57.:08:02.

pill used by 1 million women. And a Tory MP allegedly dressed as a Nazi.

:08:03.:08:06.

Finally, Scotland on Sunday has a story about Robbins in the Scottish

:08:07.:08:11.

health service and a story about a row in Scotland over gay marriage.

:08:12.:08:15.

It happens at Holyrood as well as Westminster. Thank you to both

:08:16.:08:21.

Benedicte and Michael for joining us. We start with the Gove story.

:08:22.:08:26.

And so we should. He is coming on your programme. And who did what? A

:08:27.:08:32.

week ago, Sir Michael Wilshaw, the government appointed ex-headmaster

:08:33.:08:35.

running Ofsted, complained that he was being briefed against by Gove

:08:36.:08:40.

aids, those shadowy special advisers. A few days later, Sally

:08:41.:08:50.

Morgan gets sacked. What is going on? Morgan was appointed by the

:08:51.:08:53.

Tories and was a reform of schools when she worked under Tony Blair.

:08:54.:08:58.

She is not a Luddite machine was willing to give free schools ago.

:08:59.:09:04.

But Ofsted have been critical of free schools and the use of

:09:05.:09:08.

amplified teachers. Remember, it is run by a tough test is headmaster --

:09:09.:09:15.

a tough former headmaster, Sir Michael Wilshaw. So what is going

:09:16.:09:23.

on, did Number Ten sack Lady Morgan? Then she hits back in these papers.

:09:24.:09:29.

And David Laws, who is Gove's deputy, supports her. The Lib Dems

:09:30.:09:39.

are very keen on this. We don't think that Michael Gove and David

:09:40.:09:45.

Laws are buddies anyway. That is right. David Laws fell off the

:09:46.:09:50.

coalition wagon after a month over his expenses. He is a super clever

:09:51.:09:55.

fellow. I will not say who has got more GCSEs. They are both clever

:09:56.:09:59.

fellows, but Michael Gove is a former journalist and he believes in

:10:00.:10:06.

headlines, like us. Maybe getting almost too many headlines this

:10:07.:10:11.

morning. Yes, he relaunched World War I the other day. The Sunday

:10:12.:10:14.

Times has a good headline - suspicion that a former Tory donor,

:10:15.:10:20.

private equity chief Theodore Agnew, is earmarked to replace her. Morgan

:10:21.:10:24.

says it is not just about getting rid of Labour people like me, it is

:10:25.:10:27.

about getting rid of all independence so that the Charity

:10:28.:10:31.

commission, schools and everyone else, Chris Smith of the Environment

:10:32.:10:35.

Agency is under fire over the flooding, and he is a Labour man

:10:36.:10:41.

too. But we don't have a quote from David Laws. It is about time he

:10:42.:10:46.

broke cover. That would be going too far. Benedicte, I want to turn to

:10:47.:10:50.

the meat of some of the Gove announcements, including discipline.

:10:51.:10:53.

Who better to have than a friend woman to talk about school

:10:54.:10:57.

discipline? You look at it differently over there. Yes, and

:10:58.:11:00.

having gone through the French system myself, I agree with what is

:11:01.:11:08.

here termed as old-fashioned discipline. Writing lines. The new

:11:09.:11:14.

trend is about having community service, but this is guidance. What

:11:15.:11:18.

happens to a poorly behaved pupil in a French school? You get held back

:11:19.:11:27.

for an hour or two. You get brought back on a Saturday and you get to

:11:28.:11:31.

write lines out 100 times. You have to do more homework. Don't reinvent

:11:32.:11:38.

the wheel. A bit of discipline. It is like being a parent. Don't

:11:39.:11:42.

threaten something you are not prepared to carry out. So I think

:11:43.:11:48.

this sounds sensible. The point is that a lot of teachers don't know

:11:49.:11:51.

any more. They are terrified either of being hit by some pupils, but

:11:52.:11:56.

more frequently, they are afraid of litigation. So they don't know what

:11:57.:12:02.

they can or can't do. There is a loss of authority. And there is a

:12:03.:12:06.

threat of litigation right across society. Maybe David Cameron could

:12:07.:12:13.

borrow Gove's rules for the Conservative Party, because there is

:12:14.:12:16.

a lack of discipline there. I will obey the leader, 100 times. I am

:12:17.:12:22.

suddenly glad you are not my maths teacher. I can see you looking

:12:23.:12:28.

scary. It is the moustache. And the tone of voice. What's next? There is

:12:29.:12:35.

a worrying story in the Daily Mail about women who are on the pill.

:12:36.:12:41.

Fatal blood clots. There is always a worrying story in the Daily Mail

:12:42.:12:46.

about the pill. It is a specialism. The Daily Express also do it. One of

:12:47.:12:52.

the pill is concerned is called Yasmin. The health warning is, don't

:12:53.:13:00.

take my word or the Daily Mail's word for it, if you are taking these

:13:01.:13:04.

pills, you should consult your doctor. But we know there have been

:13:05.:13:12.

14 deaths in France from this. How do people die from it? They get a

:13:13.:13:19.

blood clot and die from that. But others are saying 14 deaths, given

:13:20.:13:23.

the huge number of women who take it, it is not that dangerous. This

:13:24.:13:29.

is a scare story. They are right to say that if women are vulnerable to

:13:30.:13:32.

blood clots, maybe they should go on another pill. This is a

:13:33.:13:36.

third-generation pill. It is much more friendly, although what do I

:13:37.:13:41.

know? If you read it to the end, it has been around for a long time.

:13:42.:13:46.

Everything is dangerous. Pregnancy is dangerous as well. At the

:13:47.:13:53.

beginning of the programme, I mentioned the Labour Party's union

:13:54.:14:01.

reform. Yes. Look at this magnificent observer all you need to

:14:02.:14:06.

know article. I have written a lot of these in my time. If you are

:14:07.:14:12.

named here as an important person, you are in trouble. The lads will

:14:13.:14:15.

get you behind the bike shed and make you write 100 lines next week.

:14:16.:14:21.

It is about Miliband trying to reform the relationship with the

:14:22.:14:27.

unions, the money and the votes. There are a lot of American gurus

:14:28.:14:31.

coming in to help. The Labour Party has always turned to the United

:14:32.:14:35.

States and the Democratic party, even to Theodore reserve at 100

:14:36.:14:40.

years ago, rather than to Europe. It is the lack of Marxism in the

:14:41.:14:43.

British labour movement. They don't go to French intellectuals. And as

:14:44.:14:51.

everyone scrabbles around to try to make sense of the proposed union

:14:52.:14:54.

changes, the Labour leadership will be pleased that Andrew Walmsley in

:14:55.:15:01.

the Observer has a piece which sounds optimistic. He says it is

:15:02.:15:07.

finishing what Neil Kinnock started. I think it is too optimistic. Some

:15:08.:15:11.

of the paper said that if you get rid of the unions' big cheque-books

:15:12.:15:16.

and rely on ?3 a head for union members opting in to pay this money

:15:17.:15:19.

to the Labour Party and get some voting rights on the leader, it will

:15:20.:15:25.

cost ordinary members of ?40. They might lose 4 million quid. Friends

:15:26.:15:29.

of mine said the gap in labour's budget could be ?8 million, just at

:15:30.:15:34.

a time when the Conservatives are coining it in. So when Ed Miliband

:15:35.:15:38.

says it is a big risk, that is true? Definitely, although there will also

:15:39.:15:41.

have a new process for electing a leader. Miliband was voted for by

:15:42.:15:47.

union bosses, and now it will be harder. The election campaign has

:15:48.:15:57.

definitely kicked off because the only Ed Miliband has been stung by

:15:58.:16:01.

the criticism and the image which has stuck about the one member, one

:16:02.:16:11.

vote. I was there, we know the tenterhooks, so he is trying to

:16:12.:16:16.

dispel that. John Prescott feels strongly about it and he is backing

:16:17.:16:29.

this. As you referred to, he is saying he is in favour of it and he

:16:30.:16:36.

started this process in 1993. That is a good headline! The leader put

:16:37.:16:49.

his Ed on the block! You are a journalist who follows Francois

:16:50.:16:55.

Hollande, normally in France we hear it is the other way round, he

:16:56.:16:59.

follows journalists, but tell me about what is in the paper today.

:17:00.:17:07.

There are two different angles, one is about the summit when the French

:17:08.:17:14.

president declined to answer about his personal life and this alleged

:17:15.:17:20.

affair he had. More importantly for David Cameron, he said it was not a

:17:21.:17:26.

priority to renegotiate Britain's relationships. That is a serious

:17:27.:17:33.

blow. Luck it is, because David Cameron needs powerful allies. This

:17:34.:17:39.

article is trying to put a positive spin on it, saying it is a process

:17:40.:17:44.

of negotiations and it is not a definite no, but that is not what I

:17:45.:17:50.

have heard. Do you think Francois Hollande has

:17:51.:17:58.

taken offence about what has been said about the French economy in

:17:59.:18:05.

recent months? Certainly the French press feels there has been some

:18:06.:18:17.

French bashing, and Francois Hollande has been ridiculed because

:18:18.:18:21.

of his personal life, also because of the bad unemployment figures.

:18:22.:18:27.

President Hollande campaigned about getting the unemployment figures

:18:28.:18:33.

down and he has not succeeded. In the Daily Telegraph there is a very

:18:34.:18:39.

good article by my colleague and she talks about how he had a good visit

:18:40.:18:43.

in Turkey but basically this ridicule, of course, he prepared his

:18:44.:18:50.

answer about the woman he had an affair with, who on Friday was

:18:51.:18:56.

nominated for the Best supporting role. We could make her the head of

:18:57.:19:04.

Ofsted, the French know how to do it. And you have a great photograph.

:19:05.:19:12.

Hold it up, he doesn't take dignified photographs, does he? And

:19:13.:19:18.

this has been singled out as a very mean picture taken by the British

:19:19.:19:28.

press. Interesting, Mr Cameron looks all right. This is a trained French

:19:29.:19:35.

journalist, this only speculation. The other picture which I loved

:19:36.:19:41.

here, and all London commuters will particularly enjoy, port -- Bob Crow

:19:42.:19:52.

preparing for his strike in Brazil! It is a photo of Bob Crow preparing

:19:53.:20:01.

two days of paying for Londoners. He feels our pain. I don't know if he

:20:02.:20:10.

does, he has been there for two weeks and he has sunburn. We cannot

:20:11.:20:15.

finish without talking about the rugby, a great day for France. It

:20:16.:20:25.

was called the crunch, the British were brilliant, the English I beg

:20:26.:20:35.

your pardon. English region and we haven't actually played yet. But the

:20:36.:20:42.

Welsh are very strong. We are unionists, we want them both to

:20:43.:20:50.

win! There is the grand slam so there is still hope. Thank you very

:20:51.:20:55.

much indeed. And so to the weather. Terrible floods again.1767, George

:20:56.:20:58.

III on the throne. We still run North America. A man called Daniel

:20:59.:21:01.

Boone discovers a place called Kentucky and Europeans - British

:21:02.:21:04.

ship, in fact, arrives for the first time at Tahiti. 1767. Jeremy

:21:05.:21:08.

Clarkson was just a boy. And it was the last time, apparently, that we

:21:09.:21:11.

had flooding this bad. Over to the weather studio, and Tomasz

:21:12.:21:12.

Schafernaker. What an epic introduction to the

:21:13.:21:25.

weather file and not very epic weather forecast. It is a lot better

:21:26.:21:31.

than yesterday, we just have the leftovers of the storm which has

:21:32.:21:36.

blown itself out. We are still feeling the tail end of this storm,

:21:37.:21:46.

but on balance the most today there is a bit of wind and some showers

:21:47.:21:54.

and not a bad day to go out and about. Tonight goes clear for money

:21:55.:22:01.

to start with, but then the weather unfortunately goes downhill again so

:22:02.:22:04.

by the time we get to five o'clock on Monday the rain is nudging into

:22:05.:22:09.

the western fringes of the Southwest, Wales into Scotland as

:22:10.:22:13.

well, and gales blowing at up to 60 mph. I think it will be quite a

:22:14.:22:18.

narrow band of rain so it will be hit and miss depending on where you

:22:19.:22:24.

are. As we head into Wednesday, there is a familiar story, zillions

:22:25.:22:32.

of isobars which means the wind will be very strong, lots of cloud, lots

:22:33.:22:38.

of rain, and to summarise it can only be said that there is more rain

:22:39.:22:43.

and more gales, but let's just get through the sunshine today and enjoy

:22:44.:22:44.

what we have. Ever since last summer and the row

:22:45.:22:54.

over selection of a candidate in Falkirk, Ed Miliband has been

:22:55.:22:57.

promising a radical reshaping of his party's relationship with the trade

:22:58.:23:00.

unions who are, awkwardly, among his main paymasters too. Now, at last,

:23:01.:23:04.

we have the suggested package of changes, heralded by Mr Miliband as

:23:05.:23:07.

one of the biggest and boldest things he's done so far. Harriet

:23:08.:23:11.

Harman, his deputy, joins us now. It is all about the numbers up to a

:23:12.:23:16.

point, you have something like 200,000 ordinary Labour Party

:23:17.:23:20.

members and there are 2.7 trade unionists, so if only 10% of the

:23:21.:23:26.

trade unionists actually sign up as members of the Labour Party, they

:23:27.:23:31.

will overwhelm current members of the Labour Party, that's right isn't

:23:32.:23:37.

it? It's not all about the numbers, it's about opening up the Labour

:23:38.:23:42.

Party to people in work places up and down the country, broadening the

:23:43.:23:48.

base of the Labour Party, but doing it in a legitimate and realistic

:23:49.:23:52.

way. The idea to juxtapose people who are working in call centres,

:23:53.:23:57.

factories, warehouses, public services, to juxtapose them, people

:23:58.:24:03.

who support the Labour Party and have actually registered to be on

:24:04.:24:07.

the books of the Labour Party, to juxtapose them against the

:24:08.:24:10.

membership of the Labour Party and say they shouldn't have a vote in

:24:11.:24:15.

the leadership I think is wrong. These proposals broaden the base of

:24:16.:24:21.

the party in a legitimate way. Up and down the country under these

:24:22.:24:25.

proposals, it is quite likely the Labour Party will be dominated by

:24:26.:24:31.

new trade union members. I query the word domination. There will be

:24:32.:24:40.

people at work, ordinary people at work, and this will reinvigorate the

:24:41.:24:45.

party at a local level. How about they will be heavily influenced by

:24:46.:24:56.

trade union members. It will breathe new life into the party. To have a

:24:57.:25:00.

strong local connection between people who are working and living

:25:01.:25:04.

locally, together with the Labour Party, that is what our democracy

:25:05.:25:09.

needs in this country. I think it is being slightly phobic about trade

:25:10.:25:16.

unionists. Why shouldn't they have a say about the leader of the party

:25:17.:25:22.

they support? Absolutely right but trade union activists have a trade

:25:23.:25:26.

union agenda and that is their right. If you give them a cut-price

:25:27.:25:34.

?3 entry into the Labour Party, why not do it for members of the

:25:35.:25:41.

National trust? Why just trade unionist? There is nothing wrong

:25:42.:25:46.

with being an activist but this is about everybody and we have a range

:25:47.:25:50.

of members. If you are a student you get to join the party for ?1. If you

:25:51.:25:55.

are a member of the Armed Forces, you get to join the party for ?1.

:25:56.:26:00.

Here we are saying that if you are a member of the trade union which is

:26:01.:26:04.

affiliated with the Labour Party and you sign up to join and you pay ?3,

:26:05.:26:13.

you can vote in the leadership election. All the people who vote

:26:14.:26:18.

want to see us in government. If you bring in lots more trade union

:26:19.:26:24.

members, and there will be the activists inevitably, that will tilt

:26:25.:26:27.

the Labour Party more in a trade union direction, it is like night

:26:28.:26:33.

follows day into it? If you mean people who care about more people

:26:34.:26:37.

being able to get jobs, being able to have the living wage, caring

:26:38.:26:42.

about decent terms and conditions, caring about equality and social

:26:43.:26:47.

justice, yes that is a good thing, that is what the Labour Party

:26:48.:26:52.

believes in, and they will only be in the Labour Party election for the

:26:53.:26:55.

leadership if they have signed up to the Labour Party and we then ballot

:26:56.:27:00.

them because they have said they support the Labour Party. They have

:27:01.:27:05.

to not only be a member of the trade union but they have to turn to us

:27:06.:27:10.

and say we want to be part of the party. How can you be certain they

:27:11.:27:14.

are Labour Party supporters when they join? How can you make sure

:27:15.:27:21.

anybody is supporting anything? They will have to sign that they support

:27:22.:27:26.

the Labour Party and no other party and they will have to give them

:27:27.:27:31.

money so actually that is the way parties work. It is a very easy way

:27:32.:27:36.

for members of other parties to sign up, get into the Labour Party and

:27:37.:27:43.

have a big influence. I know people are asking that question but I think

:27:44.:27:48.

it combines being slightly phobic about trade unions and also

:27:49.:27:53.

patronising. This is about ordinary people at work who will make up

:27:54.:27:57.

their own minds about who they want to have as a leader, and it will be

:27:58.:28:02.

good for us to be engaged at a local level. We are talking about people

:28:03.:28:08.

who work in offices and shops, people who are also members of trade

:28:09.:28:14.

unions. Why is it that some of your key colleagues are very worried

:28:15.:28:22.

about this then? I hope they will listen to the facts and be in favour

:28:23.:28:28.

of it. The ballot goes out to people all around the country, and many

:28:29.:28:31.

more numbers we hope than currently vote but who have said will support

:28:32.:28:38.

the Labour Party. How many trade union members do you think the party

:28:39.:28:48.

will have in the years time? We hope many will become members, it could

:28:49.:29:03.

be 270,000 more people involved at a local level and that would be good

:29:04.:29:13.

for politics. They would obviously alongside Labour Party members, they

:29:14.:29:16.

would be able to vote in the leadership election, but at the end

:29:17.:29:22.

of the day, why shouldn't they? Why shouldn't you have a say in the vote

:29:23.:29:27.

for the leadership? I think it is a good thing. Let's move on, this will

:29:28.:29:32.

be discussed at a special conference later in the year, and we thought

:29:33.:29:37.

this was going to be an open conference under debate but there

:29:38.:29:41.

are now rumours it will go on for two hours, is that right? There will

:29:42.:29:47.

be discussions under conference and we will decide and people will

:29:48.:29:52.

vote. There is loads of debate going on. And will the proposals be

:29:53.:30:01.

subject to amendment at that conference? Yes or no, a rubber

:30:02.:30:05.

stamp? No, because people can say no. The rules of the Labour Party

:30:06.:30:12.

have changed over time and the leader has a responsibility to say

:30:13.:30:16.

this is how I see it, and the party can I be back that or not. On the

:30:17.:30:21.

money, is it true that the price for this deal the unions will carry on

:30:22.:30:25.

supporting the Labour Party at roughly the same level until the

:30:26.:30:32.

general election? We are phasing this in over five years. There has

:30:33.:30:37.

been hot-headed talk over union financing. For the avoidance of

:30:38.:30:41.

doubt, the biggest donors to the Labour Party are our individual

:30:42.:30:45.

members. Many of whom will be a bit hacked off to find they could have

:30:46.:30:50.

joined for the ?3 rather than ?43. I don't think so, because they also

:30:51.:30:55.

know that students can join for ?1. Former armed forces members can join

:30:56.:31:01.

for ?1. There is a reduced rate for those who are unemployed. The point

:31:02.:31:05.

is that Labour Party members can stand as MPs and can vote in local

:31:06.:31:13.

elections. It is different. Some of the papers are saying this will cost

:31:14.:31:17.

the Labour Party ?4 million a year. Is that a figure you recognise? It

:31:18.:31:22.

is being phased in over five years, because it does have financial

:31:23.:31:26.

implications. But what is important about this is that it broadens the

:31:27.:31:31.

base of the party in a legitimate way. You can't start by talking

:31:32.:31:34.

about money and work your way back to the right decision. You have to

:31:35.:31:38.

make the right decision and try to raise the money as well. I thought

:31:39.:31:45.

the main thing was to make sure the money keeps coming in. That is not

:31:46.:31:49.

at all what was said. There is too much cloak and dagger stuff about

:31:50.:31:56.

that. This is all in the open, these proposals. They will go to the party

:31:57.:32:00.

conference, and I hope people support them. A lot of people will

:32:01.:32:05.

say, why aren't you spending all your time talking about the economy

:32:06.:32:09.

and the health service? These are important issues. Why fiddle with

:32:10.:32:14.

the party rules? But it is important that our party's roots are deep and

:32:15.:32:18.

that when people vote for the leadership, it is because they have

:32:19.:32:22.

chosen to support the Labour Party and are paying. Would Ed Miliband

:32:23.:32:28.

have been voted for as leader if this had been in place before? It is

:32:29.:32:32.

impossible to say. The point is that Ed Miliband was elected fair and

:32:33.:32:34.

square under the old rules. But he thinks it is time for a change in

:32:35.:32:40.

those rules, and he is right. What about the fact that the conference

:32:41.:32:43.

voting will not change on policy matters? Surely that is the crucial

:32:44.:32:48.

question. The unions will still have a 50% say. What he is proposing for

:32:49.:32:55.

the March conference is a huge change - in financing, in voting for

:32:56.:32:59.

the leader and what goes on at local level . In due course, it may have

:33:00.:33:06.

implications for other things, but it is already a big issue to take

:33:07.:33:11.

forward. Thank you for joining us. Now to something entirely

:33:12.:33:14.

different. Apart from being a fine actor, Ralph Fiennes has carved out

:33:15.:33:18.

quite a career as a director. His debut behind the camera, Coriolanus,

:33:19.:33:23.

was a critical hit. His second outing as director also sees him

:33:24.:33:26.

playing the central role. The Invisible Woman is about Charles

:33:27.:33:30.

Dickens' infatuation with a much younger actress, Nelly Ternan.

:33:31.:33:33.

Fiennes plays the author at the peak of his career when the affair

:33:34.:33:37.

overturns both his marriage and reputation. When we met, Ralph

:33:38.:33:41.

Fiennes told me about how Dickens, who was also an accomplished actor

:33:42.:33:45.

in his day, was undone by love. My sense is that Dickens was a very

:33:46.:33:51.

gregarious, socially vital, workaholic man who loved being the

:33:52.:33:54.

centre of a social event. We see him at the beginning, rehearsing with a

:33:55.:33:58.

group of actors in an amateur production. He falls in love with a

:33:59.:34:02.

much younger girl, and there is the trauma which comes with a leap of

:34:03.:34:07.

the heart that is also catastrophic. This man spent most of his career

:34:08.:34:11.

celebrity the heart and family, and now he smashes it to pieces. I think

:34:12.:34:18.

it surprises him. I think he probably did not expect that sort of

:34:19.:34:23.

thing to come at him. My theory is that he had been writing the perfect

:34:24.:34:26.

half of the end of earlier novels with this demure, perfect,

:34:27.:34:32.

angel-like woman, whether it is Agnes in David Copperfield or Esther

:34:33.:34:39.

Summerson in Bleak House. And then the Lee walked into his life in this

:34:40.:34:43.

rehearsal, and I think he projected onto her this ideal. It was not

:34:44.:34:46.

necessarily that Nelly was that person. I think Nellie was a

:34:47.:34:50.

self-contained, self-possessed young actress. And he decided that was

:34:51.:34:56.

her. I hope the film tries to show how Nelly negotiates Dickens. Did

:34:57.:35:05.

you send Catherine to me? Yes. She's the mother of children? And I shall

:35:06.:35:10.

always be grateful, but I do not love her. She comprehends nothing.

:35:11.:35:16.

She sees nothing. I thought she saw you, she would understand that I

:35:17.:35:19.

have nothing with her. I wanted her to see it. It? What is "it",

:35:20.:35:33.

Charles? What is it that we are? And quite ignorant about Dickens. I did

:35:34.:35:36.

not know much about the man and I had only read one Dickens novel, so

:35:37.:35:41.

it has been a discovery. The book for me to want to make it was Nelly.

:35:42.:35:46.

The film explores her as she is being pursued by Dickens and how

:35:47.:35:49.

young girl has to negotiate their way through Dickens' and Morris at

:35:50.:35:55.

attention. And then later in her life, how she finds some kind of

:35:56.:36:00.

closure with it. This is a very pretty cottage. Thank you, if a

:36:01.:36:04.

little small. The other extraordinary character in the film

:36:05.:36:09.

is Nelly's mother, played by the wonderful Kristin Scott Thomas, who

:36:10.:36:13.

is aware that her daughter is about to commit sin and social disaster.

:36:14.:36:21.

My daughter is a fine young woman. Sometimes, an actress for the

:36:22.:36:26.

future. I understand. If I may be of assistance in any way? I cannot risk

:36:27.:36:36.

Nelly's reputation. I hope that nothing I can offer would compromise

:36:37.:36:41.

her. This was fascinating to me, because

:36:42.:36:45.

Claire Tomalin deals with this in the book. It is clearly a social

:36:46.:36:48.

disaster for a young girl to be seen as the mistress for Dickens.

:36:49.:36:52.

Disastrous for him and for her, scandalous. And yet, by all evidence

:36:53.:36:59.

that Claire presents, the mother acquiesces and, in unspoken way,

:37:00.:37:05.

almost approves the love affair, because Dickens was a catch. It

:37:06.:37:10.

struck me how Dickens is here pursued as a global celebrity who

:37:11.:37:15.

can't go anywhere without crowds around him. And he's tried to

:37:16.:37:17.

conduct a competitive private life under the glare of publicity. There

:37:18.:37:22.

is an irony that Dickens, being a kind of superstar in the

:37:23.:37:27.

English-speaking world, a literary superstar, certainly, when this

:37:28.:37:33.

thing happens to him and he decided to exit his marriage, he does the

:37:34.:37:37.

thing you should never do, which is to justify it to the Times. Can I

:37:38.:37:44.

ask a bit more generally? This is your second big film as a director.

:37:45.:37:48.

These films are presumably very expensive to raise money for. To

:37:49.:37:56.

what extent do you leverage your fame to give you the power to raise

:37:57.:38:00.

the money to make the films you want to make? There is no question that

:38:01.:38:03.

playing Voldemort and the huge success of the Harry Potter

:38:04.:38:08.

franchise and being the main bad guy in that, there is no question that

:38:09.:38:12.

that helps. When you go to raise money for a film, there was a

:38:13.:38:19.

terrifying reality which is that you sit down with money people, very

:38:20.:38:27.

established stars and actors, and suddenly you are told that they do

:38:28.:38:30.

not mean anything any more because they were successful three years ago

:38:31.:38:35.

and now it is so and so. So do I have any meaning in this sense? So

:38:36.:38:39.

Harry Potter certainly helped. It is a strange thought that it is thanks

:38:40.:38:43.

to JK Rowling that we can get Shakespeare and Dickens on the

:38:44.:38:47.

screen. Yes! There was a funny reality that you don't encounter if

:38:48.:38:54.

you are just being an encounter and you are waiting for the phone to

:38:55.:38:57.

ring and get a job. But if you are waiting for the money to make a

:38:58.:39:00.

film, the distributors and studios have a thing about who is in. It is

:39:01.:39:05.

uncomfortable. Going back to Dickens, he was a very serious

:39:06.:39:11.

thespian himself. He wanted to be an actor. And you think he was a good

:39:12.:39:19.

one? I do. I read a review of his acting, and it said "Mister Dickens

:39:20.:39:24.

does not come to the footlights and grandstand his emotions. If he is a

:39:25.:39:28.

man depressed, he is a man depressed, we believe him as quote.

:39:29.:39:32.

So it all connects. It is Dickens and your own ambition. Thank you

:39:33.:39:37.

very much. Ralph finds, a clever fellow. Now,

:39:38.:39:42.

Michael Gove, another clever fellow, the Education Secretary, has the

:39:43.:39:46.

reputation for being one of the Tory radicals in the coalition cabinet.

:39:47.:39:49.

Over the past few days, his office has poured out another range of

:39:50.:39:52.

ideas about tougher discipline in schools, shorter school holidays,

:39:53.:39:56.

tests for four-year-olds and so one. But being a radical also means you

:39:57.:40:01.

get tangled in controversy. And as we have heard, there has been

:40:02.:40:04.

criticism over his decision to get rid of Sally Morgan, a Labour peer

:40:05.:40:09.

Baroness Morgan, chair of Ofsted. Mr Gove joins me now. You appointed

:40:10.:40:14.

Sally? And she is a fantastic person. She will carry on working

:40:15.:40:19.

alongside us until September. Has she been a good head of Ofsted? Yes,

:40:20.:40:24.

she has done a good job. She and Sir Michael Wilshaw, the chief

:40:25.:40:27.

inspector, are a fantastic team. I have known Sally for several years.

:40:28.:40:33.

Before I appointed her, I admired the fact that she was a brave and

:40:34.:40:37.

principled person who was prepared sometimes to defy party orthodoxy to

:40:38.:40:41.

do the right thing. She is a good egg. So why kick her out? Well, I

:40:42.:40:48.

think it is recognised across government that from time to time,

:40:49.:40:52.

you need to refresh the person who is chair of a particular body in

:40:53.:40:56.

order to bring a new pair of eyes to bear. In the Department of Education

:40:57.:41:01.

itself, we had a further three years, but that is the term. At the

:41:02.:41:05.

end of an individual term, it is appropriate to consider whether or

:41:06.:41:08.

not we might need a new person to bring a new post it. But here is an

:41:09.:41:14.

excellent egg running often very well, and yet she is having to go,

:41:15.:41:19.

and she is upset about it. I was told that when she asked you about

:41:20.:41:24.

it, you said, well, you and labour. And she is Labour. Was that your

:41:25.:41:30.

explanation? Let me be clear. This government is happy to appoint

:41:31.:41:33.

people, whatever their political background, two important jobs. I

:41:34.:41:37.

appointed Sally in the first place, knowing she was Labour. We also

:41:38.:41:41.

appointed a former Labour special adviser, Simon Stephens, to head the

:41:42.:41:48.

NHS. When it came to the new chair of Ofsted, we will appoint on merit.

:41:49.:41:56.

A Tory donor called Mr Agnew? Well, if there is an outstanding labour

:41:57.:42:00.

candidate who wants to do it, I am the government will look on their

:42:01.:42:03.

application with the same degree of favour as we would anyone else who

:42:04.:42:07.

is highly qualified. It is wrong to try to argue that this government is

:42:08.:42:11.

favouring one group of individuals over another. There is a pattern.

:42:12.:42:16.

There is Jennie Brand ski at the Heritage Lottery Fund, Baroness

:42:17.:42:20.

Andrews at English Heritage, Sally Morgan, Liz Morgan at the arts

:42:21.:42:24.

Council. Left-leaning women are being kicked out. There is also a

:42:25.:42:27.

pattern of distinguished figures with no political allegiance being

:42:28.:42:33.

appointed. If you look at the figures rather than a few examples,

:42:34.:42:37.

in the first three years of the coalition, three times as many

:42:38.:42:43.

people who were Labour were appointed or reappointed to public

:42:44.:42:47.

bodies as Conservatives. And now you are having second thoughts?

:42:48.:42:51.

Absolutely not. I believe it was right for me to have appointed

:42:52.:42:54.

Sally. She has done a fantastic job. But it is also the case, that

:42:55.:43:01.

for example, we used to have the chairman of the board within the

:43:02.:43:05.

Department for Education as a distinguished figure with no

:43:06.:43:08.

political allegiance. Then I decide to appoint a Liberal Democrat. The

:43:09.:43:13.

only pattern you can see is appointment on merit and a desire to

:43:14.:43:19.

make sure we have tough figures to concentrate on improving the

:43:20.:43:21.

education system. Do you understand Sally Morgan's amusement when she is

:43:22.:43:27.

told she is fantastic, but take your coat as you leave? Well, I talked to

:43:28.:43:32.

Sally yesterday on the day before. If there is another opportunity for

:43:33.:43:35.

her to serve in a different role at a different time, I would be

:43:36.:43:38.

delighted to support her in whatever role is appropriate. There is

:43:39.:43:43.

nothing wrong with Sally, but there is a principle across government

:43:44.:43:50.

that there should be no automatic reappointment and after whatever the

:43:51.:43:54.

term is in a particular role, it is appropriate to bring a fresh pair of

:43:55.:43:57.

eyes. That is good corporate practice in order to ensure that you

:43:58.:44:02.

refresh wards and bring a new perspective and have tough questions

:44:03.:44:05.

asked. Sally herself replaced someone who had been in post for

:44:06.:44:12.

four years. Sally, having brought significant gifts to this role, will

:44:13.:44:18.

bring superb debts to another role in the future. Is Mr Agnew being

:44:19.:44:22.

lined up? Anyone can apply who feels they have something to bring to the

:44:23.:44:29.

organisation. I want the widest possible range of candidates. No one

:44:30.:44:33.

should be ruled out on the basis of political age allegiance. If someone

:44:34.:44:36.

is a distinguished former minister and wants to put their hat in the

:44:37.:44:39.

ring, I would look favourably on that. If there is someone who is a

:44:40.:44:45.

conservative, why should they be ruled out just because they are a

:44:46.:44:48.

conservative? That would be wrong. We want to appoint on merit. Sounds

:44:49.:44:55.

like you are lining up the Conservative donor for this job? It

:44:56.:44:59.

is wrong to rule anyone out. The important thing is to make sure we

:45:00.:45:02.

have a broad field. The appointment will be made in accordance with the

:45:03.:45:10.

rules, which are clear and fair. There is a process to go through

:45:11.:45:15.

which is at arm's length from ministers. I would expect that the

:45:16.:45:17.

person chairing the appointment panel will be the gentleman I

:45:18.:45:21.

mentioned earlier, Paul Marshall, a friend of mine who is a Liberal

:45:22.:45:24.

Democrat party donor. The fact that he is chairing the panel is one of

:45:25.:45:30.

the guarantees of integrity you would expect. Was it your decision

:45:31.:45:34.

or Number Ten's decision? Absolutely my decision. There has been

:45:35.:45:46.

discussion about lengthening the school day, is that something you

:45:47.:45:50.

want to roll out across the country? Not quite, the idea came

:45:51.:45:56.

from Paul Kirby who has now moved back into the private sector. There

:45:57.:46:01.

is a case for varying it in order to give people access to cheaper

:46:02.:46:04.

holidays but I do believe we need to have a longer school day. I don't

:46:05.:46:10.

believe they should be mandated like that from the centre right now. We

:46:11.:46:14.

need to work with the profession in order to ensure we can provide the

:46:15.:46:23.

extracurricular activities that pupils get in private fee-paying

:46:24.:46:28.

schools. I can see the case for this but it will cost money, people

:46:29.:46:33.

staying on for longer to supervise acceptor. There is already within

:46:34.:46:41.

the state system the example of a number of schools funded just as

:46:42.:46:45.

tightly as other schools that are already providing an extended school

:46:46.:46:50.

day with all sorts of activities, whether it is competitive sport,

:46:51.:47:04.

drama, or debating, that helped a -- help to build character and grit.

:47:05.:47:07.

One of the things we are also talking about today is the

:47:08.:47:11.

importance of behaviour. I will come onto that in a moment but you

:47:12.:47:16.

mentioned the question of school holidays and the expensive prices

:47:17.:47:20.

some people face for going abroad and so forth. Do you have any

:47:21.:47:24.

sympathy with people who take their children out of school to capitalise

:47:25.:47:32.

on a holidays? I do find the cost of holidays during school holidays

:47:33.:47:36.

excessive but the answer is not to take children out of school in term

:47:37.:47:41.

time. It is vital children are at school learning and I think schools

:47:42.:47:45.

are right to punish parents for doing that. We need to deploy a more

:47:46.:47:53.

flexible approach. Let's move on to discipline, you have suggested

:47:54.:47:57.

writing lines and picking up litter. One of your supporters in the press

:47:58.:48:02.

has said you have got to be very careful of not announcing gimmicks

:48:03.:48:07.

but having proper policies, they clearly see this as a gimmick. The

:48:08.:48:12.

reaction from teachers I have spoken to is quite different. They believe

:48:13.:48:16.

the Government should support them in making sure they have a wide

:48:17.:48:20.

range of sanctions. Critically we need to make sure that the one in

:48:21.:48:25.

three teachers who say they are uncertain about the measures we

:48:26.:48:34.

deploy, but they should have a full range of measures up to and

:48:35.:48:38.

including community service and I think it is absolutely right to say

:48:39.:48:42.

to students that if they have in some way undermined discipline that

:48:43.:48:49.

they should be responsible for clearing up litter, or weeding the

:48:50.:48:55.

school playing field. People need to understand that there are

:48:56.:48:58.

consequences if they break the rules and that teachers have the power to

:48:59.:49:04.

enforce them. What about manhandling them, as it were, because that is a

:49:05.:49:10.

grey area. If the people this behaving badly and the teacher needs

:49:11.:49:16.

to get them out, what can they do? It used to be the case that teachers

:49:17.:49:23.

felt there is no touch rule, but if you need to separate two students in

:49:24.:49:30.

conflict you can use appropriate physical intervention in order to

:49:31.:49:34.

separate them, or to constrain a pupil behaving in a certain way.

:49:35.:49:50.

Some say you clearly need legislation for this. I would say we

:49:51.:49:54.

have changed the rules so that teachers get protection against the

:49:55.:49:59.

sorts of allegations, and standard allegations often, which can blight

:50:00.:50:05.

their career. Whatever the tools are that the teachers need we will give

:50:06.:50:09.

them, and I think it is appropriate that teachers know that whatever

:50:10.:50:14.

they need we will back them 100%. A lot of teachers say there are far

:50:15.:50:20.

too many tests, and now you are proposing a new hurdle when they are

:50:21.:50:26.

four, that seems ridiculous. I don't think it is ridiculous to ask how

:50:27.:50:30.

well children are doing at the end of primary school. What kind of test

:50:31.:50:40.

can you give a four-year-old? At the moment there are variety of checks

:50:41.:50:46.

that you can do, and anybody can be given a series of tests to see the

:50:47.:50:51.

level of cognitive development they are at. Durham University produces a

:50:52.:51:01.

set of tests widely used. Will they be stressful? No, they will be used

:51:02.:51:11.

so that teaching can be tailored to students. It has been given a wide

:51:12.:51:17.

welcome so far, and it will enable us to see those schools that have

:51:18.:51:23.

difficult intakes that at the end of the primary phase don't appear to be

:51:24.:51:27.

doing well on headline figures but they have made tremendous progress.

:51:28.:51:31.

We need to make sure that the schools that are helping the most

:51:32.:51:35.

disadvantaged pupils are rewarded most generously for the work they do

:51:36.:51:41.

in order to advance social justice. Thank you, now the news headlines.

:51:42.:51:46.

The Education Secretary has denied that his decision to look for a

:51:47.:51:50.

different person to chair the schools inspectorate Ofsted was

:51:51.:51:54.

politically motivated. The current holder of the post, Sally Morgan,

:51:55.:51:59.

has complained Downing Street is seeking to appoint more Conservative

:52:00.:52:06.

supporters to public bodies. He insisted her successor would be

:52:07.:52:10.

chosen on merit. Michael Gove was speaking as he issued new guidelines

:52:11.:52:14.

to schools encouraging them to use old-fashioned punishments such as

:52:15.:52:19.

writing lines. Labour 's deputy leader has defended proposed reforms

:52:20.:52:23.

of the party's relationship with trade unions. Plans have been

:52:24.:52:28.

announced to invite individual trade unionists to become associate

:52:29.:52:33.

members of the party in return for a vote in future leadership elections.

:52:34.:52:36.

Harriet Harman said it was phobic to complain this would give the trade

:52:37.:52:41.

union movement more influence over Labour. They will only be in the

:52:42.:52:46.

election for the leadership if they have signed up to the Labour Party

:52:47.:52:50.

and we then ballot them because they have paid to the Labour Party and

:52:51.:52:53.

they say they support the Labour Party. They have two distinctively

:52:54.:53:01.

turned to us and say we want to be part of the party. That is all from

:53:02.:53:11.

me for now. The next news is on BBC One at one o'clock. At ten o'clock

:53:12.:53:17.

we will be debating whether Britain should be giving refuge to Syrian

:53:18.:53:25.

Christians. Lastly, women's modesty. See you at ten o'clock on BBC One.

:53:26.:53:30.

Michael Gove is still here and joined by Harriet Harman. What did

:53:31.:53:34.

you make of Michael's defence of Sally Morgan? Leaving aside

:53:35.:53:45.

political appointments to these jobs, there is a common illuminator.

:53:46.:53:57.

-- denominator. My concern is that there is a cull of women and they

:53:58.:54:07.

are all being replaced by men. We don't have enough women in senior

:54:08.:54:12.

positions. What is the problem in your party with women? We don't have

:54:13.:54:19.

a problem with women in our party, we made one of Prime Minister and

:54:20.:54:27.

she did a fantastic job. Many of the people who I have had the pleasure

:54:28.:54:32.

of appointing to posts have been distinguished women in public life.

:54:33.:54:39.

So there is no problem? There is a broader problem of attracting women

:54:40.:54:45.

into positions. It is not a problem of attracting them, it is a problem

:54:46.:54:50.

of appointing them and then not firing them and replacing them with

:54:51.:54:54.

men. It would be better if we recognise our public appointments

:54:55.:54:57.

would be better if there was a balanced team of men and women. I

:54:58.:55:05.

was the person who appointed Sally. But somebody now has made you get

:55:06.:55:10.

rid of her and replaced her with a man. We don't know if it will be a

:55:11.:55:17.

man a woman who replaces her. We don't believe in tokenism, we

:55:18.:55:30.

believe in meritocracy. Do you think the Labour Party proposals will make

:55:31.:55:34.

it easier for women to get into the top of the Labour Party, given that

:55:35.:55:42.

many trade union bosses are men? Actually the majority of trade

:55:43.:55:45.

unionists are women so the extent to which it puts it in the hands of

:55:46.:55:50.

trade union members the right to vote, well actually there is strong

:55:51.:55:55.

concern in the Labour Party at all levels to really redress the

:55:56.:56:03.

imbalance in British politics. That is why Unite is led by Len

:56:04.:56:11.

McCluskey. The thing is, you cannot have your cake and eat it. This is

:56:12.:56:16.

enormously enjoyable but I'm afraid we have run out of time. Next week

:56:17.:56:23.

we will be talking to various people. Labour's rising star, Rachel

:56:24.:56:32.

Reeves. There is a woman! And Dame Angela Lansbury will be telling me

:56:33.:56:36.

about her return to the London stage at the golden age of 88.

:56:37.:56:42.

Now, it's hard to believe that three decades have gone by since Lloyd

:56:43.:56:45.

Cole and the Commotions released their first album. It was an unusual

:56:46.:56:56.

hit for the early '80s - cool tunes with sharp song writing that

:56:57.:56:59.

referenced the likes of Norman Mailer, Leonard Cohen and Simone de

:57:00.:57:02.

Beauvoir. In recent years, Lloyd Cole himself has been based in the

:57:03.:57:06.

USA but is back here with a new album. We leave you now with a

:57:07.:57:09.

number from that album. This is Opposites Day. Good morning.

:57:10.:57:26.

# Who was it said Opposites Attract? It wasn't me.

:57:27.:57:42.

# I want you more than I can more than I can say.

:57:43.:57:50.

# if I could choose any other day, any other day, you should know

:57:51.:57:54.

better than believe a single word I say.

:57:55.:58:02.

# the next line is the truth, the last line was a lie. I know you look

:58:03.:58:12.

a lot like me. # we are really a sight to see. I

:58:13.:58:17.

can't stop pushing you away, pushing your way.

:58:18.:58:28.

# Break up on Opposite's Day. You know we are the same I know we are

:58:29.:58:35.

the same. # fall in love with me, fall in love

:58:36.:58:41.

with you, fall in love with me, fall in love with you.

:58:42.:59:08.

Download Subtitles

SRT

ASS