16/02/2014 The Andrew Marr Show

The rain, it falls upon the just, and also on the unjust fella. But

mostly on the just, cos the unjust's got the just's umbrella. We keep

being told that Britain is a divided country, north and south, rich and

poor. Town and countryside. Today the important divide is between the

smug dry and the poor sodden. And joining me today for our review of

the Sunday newspapers, Sarah Sands, editor of London's Evening Standard

and Nathalie Bennett, leader of the Green Party.

Before the downpour there was of course the crash. Now there's a kind

of recovery. Yet the man with probably the greatest influence over

the state of all our finances is not a politician, and not British but

Canadian. In a rare and exclusive interview, I've been talking to the

Governor of the Bank of England Mark Carney. How long can he keep

interest rates low? What's his take on the recovery, and the housing

market? And what about the Scots and the pound? Lots of criticism in

today's papers about the Government's response to the floods.

The Defence Secretary Philip Hammond, the man who sent in the

troops, is here to reply. Also this morning: We'll be talking about the

future of Britain in Europe in another rare interview, this time

with the man Britain's eurosceptics love to hate, commission President

himself Jose Manuel Barroso. Then art and an old fashioned war movie

about saving culture from Hitler's clutches. Director and actor George

Clooney has been telling me about his new release.

In Hollywood we do like to tell a World War II story. I think England

has some of the same things. It's a fairly clear good guy, bad guy kind

of thing. And from one George to another we'll be serenaded later by

Boy George, a wild man for many years but these days a calmer

chameleon. Busy old morning. Let's crack on

with the news, from Naga Munchetty. Good morning. Severe flood warnings

remain in place across southern England. Tens of thousands of homes

and businesses are waking up without power and river levels are still

expected to rise. It's been confirmed almost 1 million

properties have been cut off in the past week. Around 30,000 homes and

businesses are still without power with engineers working into the

night. 16 severe flood warnings, meaning a risk to life, have been

issued, many of them affecting areas close to the River Thames with the

others on the Somerset Level. Jonathan Blake reports on the latest

situation. Battered and broken. Shipping

containers put down to protect the sea wall at Dawlish in Devon, no

match for the power of the waves. Trees blocked roads and railway

lines, the effects of the third big storm in a week becoming clear. The

ground opened up in Hertfordshire. A 20 foot deep sinkhole, appearing

outside a house in Hemel Hempstead. I just had some police knocking on

the door at 7:30 to say you need to evacuate, there's a sinkhole

outside. I didn't get in time to grab anything, not even my purse or

clothes, we just had to get out. Power companies say almost one

million homes and businesses have lost electricity over the last seven

days. Around 30,000 are still cut off. 3,000 troops are helping people

in the worst affected areas. The Prime Minister has again defended

the Government's response. I think we've a huge, joined up national

effort and we've stood up proper emergency service responses in every

part of the country affected. But, of course, there are always lessons

to be learned. The rain may have stopped and the winds died down, but

rivers are still high and rising, severe flood warnings remain in

place for the River Thames and Somerset Levels. The recent storms

have been ferocious. They have claimed lives and destroyed homes.

For some, the worst may not be over. Scientists in America is a domain

system which determines the world's weather might be changing. A study

presented at the American Association for the Advancement of

Science shows the jet stream has been taking a more meandering path,

resulting in whether remaining the same for longer. The Foreign

Secretary William Hague has described the collapse of the latest

round of Syrian peace talks as a serious setback. He blamed the

breakdown on President Assad's regime. The Syrian government's side

held the opposition responsible for the failure. Activists say that

nearly 6000 people have been killed in the country since the first round

of negotiations began last month. The UK's answer to the Oscars takes

place later, with more Hollywood stars than ever expected to turn up.

Cosmic buster Gravity and drama 12 Years A Slave are widely expected to

be the big winners. Prince William will also attend. It's the last

major film awards before the Oscars next month. That's all from me, for

now. The Observer says Ed Miliband says

the storms are all about climate change and we are sleepwalking into

a national emergency. The Sunday Times has Labour candidates telling

Ed Miliband to hug bankers. And an interesting story about jihadists

coming back from Syria. Also a new picture of our new heroine, and a

picture of our old heroine, Helen Mirren, pursuing the NHS theme, with

stories of doctors being paid ?3000 a shift, not bad money. The

Independent on Sunday, Lizzie Yardley. On her tea tray. Welcome to

you both. Sarah, your first story, I think we are going to pick up the

Sunday Times jihadists story. It worries everybody? We have been

doing a lot on this in the Evening Standard. It is because the

counterterrorism unit is very concerned about the number of young

Brits that go out to Turkey, Syria, join up with extreme opposition

forces and come back really as a terrorist time bomb. We saw the

first suicide bomber. A mild-mannered fellow from Crawley,

that turns out to be a suicide bomber? Yes. The mild-mannered man

was in fact tutored by an extreme clarity. This story is about how

Facebook and Twitter are doing well at recruiting extremists is.

Natalie, what is your first story? I started with the Observer, they have

a disturbing story about how the Republic of Congo, the Ministry of

interior document, saying that the officials should be particularly on

the lookout for refugees returning from Europe, the UK, and that they

should be looking to imprison them. They should, with discretion, use

torture against them. This is particularly disturbing because the

Observer has found the British government seems to be rounding up

Congolese refugees and planning to return them to the Congo, which is

obviously a cause for concern. It is a new story to me, and I expect to

many people watching? Yes, I think we need to look at if we are meeting

our obligations in terms of providing asylum to refugees. We had

now to the Wythenshawe by-election in Manchester? Yes. I'm interested

in this because of the question of what you do with a problem like

Nigel Farage. What the Tories are doing. David Cameron, this is James

Forsyth and the Mail on Sunday, he says that Cameron's view is to

ignore him, Nick Clegg says go and fight. Cameron says he will ignore

him, but he has sent in Bozza, happy to pile into the scrum. He's written

a peace in the Sun on Sunday, the Tory message that if you vote UKIP

you get Ed Miliband, that he is a useful idiot for Ed Miliband. A key

phrases when he refers to the Tory election. We know he has an interest

in this. Calling upon David Cameron to appoint Boris as his Deputy Prime

Minister, bring him back into the tent? That is Nadine Dorries, yes.

Not yet, he has to in his passage, I suppose. The neck stories also

British politics, the bedroom tax? This is from the Sunday people,

celebrating eight tribunal victory were, in Rochdale, Greater

Manchester, the tribunal has ruled that somebody has been using a

dining room as a dining room four years, it is not an extra bedroom,

it is a dining room. It's a reminder of how much it is hurting people

throughout the country. Before we get into living conditions? If you

use what some people might think of as a bedroom to store dialysis

machines or other equipment, this is a medical room. It is a positive

step forward in tackling this pernicious tax. On to your next

story, which I think is about Helen Mirren? You mentioned her, she has

given an interview where she seems to side with David Hare, saying she

is worried about some of the violence in some of the TV violence

-- programmes that we love. Particularly against women. We start

to see them like football goals, we just keep counting them up. The plot

is so preposterous to begin with in some of them, whether it is male or

female getting knocked off, it is the least of our worries. In her

time, she has been involved in some fairly gory television? Well, we all

mellow as we get older. The next story, about generation C. Who is

that? Young people born from the late 80s to 2000. More than half of

them are raising money for charity, huge numbers involved in

volunteering and very involved in social issues. Very different from

what we usually hear about young people, more accurate, in my

opinion. Young people are nice, Schalke. London Fashion Week, have

the terrible storms affected that? I think we have to mention London

Fashion Week, battling through. Totally unsuitable shoes, but they

are keeping going. Because of the fashion calendar, they are looking

at the Winter collection. I was in a taxi this week, passing a stream of

people wearing nothing but high heeled shoes and ridiculous hats,

nothing in between, in a storm. Aren't they marvellous? So, to the

floods. A huge row at the moment, the Green Party will be interested

in this, whether climate change is or is not involved. Papers taking

sides in an aggressive way? Very much so, but I think if we go to The

Met office, the chief scientist said last week that all of the evidence

points to climate change exacerbating the floods. All of the

evidence speak, scientists speak for this is a fact. One of her number

twos quoted the Mail on Sunday saying it ain't so? There is a

survey in the Sunday Telegraph that says that 47% of it as people

believe it is linked to climate change. 39% were not sure. So, we

are really saying... The argument is shifting? A vast amount of coverage

of this in the papers. Any new light shed on anything? Not that I can

see, there is a media civil war. We have the Observer, Ed Miliband

saying something is going on. We have all clocked that and we must

take climate change seriously. In the Sunday Telegraph, nothing is

going on apart from it is the EU waste disposal policy which means

that we could not move the silt from rivers. So, a rather prosaic kind of

solution. As you say, the Mail on Sunday has someone saying it is not

global warming, it's the jet stream. If you straightforward, -- perfectly

straightforward, will not shift. You are in the Green Party, you know it

is climate change? I'm listening to the scientists. There are other

papers looking at the jet stream, that it is behaving strangely. It is

the jet stream, but it is behaving strangely and many scientists are

licking up to a warmer Arctic. There are also issues around warmer seas

in Indonesia have a warmer Arctic. There are also issues around warmer

seas in Indonesia having big impacts. If you look around the

world, Obama was in California, looking at issues linked to climate

change. Philip Hammond is here. You put in the troops, 3000 so far? Over

3000 currently deployed, thousands more in reserve if needed. This is

the led. They can call on troops wherever they need them and we have

plenty more troops in reserve. Do you think this is caused by climate

change? Climate change is clearly happening, it is clearly a factor in

whether at is that we are seeing. That is why we are investing

significant amounts of money in increasing our flood resilience in

the UK. These floods are a terrible tragedy for people that are

affected, but we shouldn't forget that many hundreds of thousands of

properties have been protected from flooding by the investment that has

been made over the last two years. On the other hand, the government

was told again and again by people in Somerset they needed to dredge,

they needed to spend a lot more money on flood defences, the

Government ignored this for quite a long time. Putting on Wellington

boot 's now is not impressing the public much? We said clearly that

the issue on the Somerset Levels is something we have to look at in

slower time when this crisis is over. The policies that have been

applied, a lot of questions marks have been raised. Definitely this

needs to be looked at. It won't apply everywhere. The Somerset

Levels is a man-made environment and, arguably, it needs to be

maintained by human intervention, dredging. On the Thames, we have

different factors. Including the fact we are carrying on building on

flood plains. It seems the Government has been rather slow, and

if you look at the opinion polls the Government is not popular in terms

of its response. The response we are delivering is a proper response. We

have been engaged since the beginning of the crisis, Cobra

meetings have been held, but we are dealing with an extraordinary set of

weather events and it has taken some time to mobilise the resources

necessary. A lot of people, scientists, have been saying for

years now that we will have more extreme weather events. Ed Miliband

talks about rolling the dice and getting sixes all the time, and yet

the Government has looked away from this and hoped it wouldn't happen. I

don't think that is true. The guidance on building on flood plains

is clear, but the whole of the Thames Valley is a flood plain and

there has to be a proper balance. We have to avoid the highest flood risk

areas, and when we do build in those areas we need to make sure the

properties are built in a way that minimises the risk of flooding. Like

everything in the real world, there is a balance to be struck and it is

very easy to say today, because we are in the middle of this crisis,

flood resilience is the only issue. It is important, but we have to

balance economic growth, standards of living, flood resilience in the

long term. Getting the troops in has helped a lot. With hindsight, should

you have put the troops in earlier? We offered them a long time ago to

civil authorities who wanted them. Over the last ten days we have

pushed them more aggressively at those authorities and I think

putting military liaison officers in, embedded in the system, is a

major step forward and we will want to make sure in the future that we

do that at an early stage. How many more troops are available if needed?

We have about 5000 more troops that could be deployed. There is a lot of

reconstruction to do, are we going to see the Royal Engineers

involved? Yes, we have agreed with the Environment Agency we will use

Royal Engineers to do a rapid inspection of all of the flood

defences of the nation. We are going to try to do in five weeks what

would normally be done in two years. This series of weather events over

the last few months has caused some serious damage to the

infrastructure, and we have got to assess that. Your own climate change

adviser says we ought to be spending more on flood defences, is that

true? We will be spending more in this four-year period than we did in

the previous four-year period, but of course there has to be a proper

balance of costs and benefits drawn. They're clearly needs to be

continued investment in flood defences and we have achieved a

great deal. In 2007, 50 5000 properties flooded. This event, we

have seen somewhere in the region of 2500 - 3000 properties flooded and I

think targeted investment will mean we become more and more resilient as

events like this will probably become more and more common. The

money we are spending on HS2 would give us some cracking flood

defences, wouldn't it? We don't have to make these either/or choices. HS2

is an important infrastructure investment for the future of Britain

and makes an important contribution to dealing with carbon emissions,

one of the drivers of climate change. We have to look at all of

these things. Philip Hammond, thank you.

Now to the weather, and you don't need me to tell you it's been

miserable out there. After these past truly atrocious weeks, is there

any sign of the storms blowing themselves out? Let's find out from

Louise Lear in the weather studio. A lovely day on offer today, plenty

of sunshine around for the moment due to this area of high pressure,

but there is more low pressure waiting in the wings which will

arrive tomorrow. Let's indulge in this beautiful weather we have at

the moment. Yes, some showers to the north-east, but predominantly dry

and sunny and it will feel very pleasant, particularly in the

south-east with high temperatures of 10 degrees. More showers developing

as the next area of low pressure starts moving in from the

south-west. In Scotland, a cold night with a touch of frost, maybe

some fog in East Anglia. Still the potential of some gales on the

exposed south coast, but nowhere near as severe as the weather we

have been seeing. Tuesday into Wednesday looks slightly quieter, a

fair amount of cloud around and we might see some rain through the

latter stages of Wednesday evening and overnight.

As soon as this programme is over, you have got to get out there and

enjoy today! Who's the most influential person

when it comes to the economy and our fragile recovery? The obvious answer

is the Chancellor but many would say it's actually the Governor of the

Bank of England - a recently appointed Canadian called Mark

Carney. He said he wouldn't jack up interest rates till unemployment

fell to 7%. Well, now it has. When I met Mark Carney at the Bank of

England a few days ago, I wanted to know, with jobless numbers falling

should home owners and businesses be chewing their nails with fear of a

rate rise? We actually said we wouldn't even begin to think about

adjusting interest rates until unemployment came down. It has come

down faster than we expected, that is good news, but when we look at

the Labour market in particular, there are a lot more people who want

to work, there are a lot more people who want to work full-time, there

are a lot more people in self-employment, and that... That is

what you call slack, isn't it? Yes, there is more slack in the labour

market, and what we are seeing which is good news again but it suggests

more slack is that people who have been out of a job for longer are

finding employment more rapidly than they have in the past and that is

good news but it means we can responsibly take our time and only

adjust interest rates once more of that slack is used up. We are saying

that there is this extra capacity in the labour market, more people

wanting to work, and the question is what happens when the time

eventually comes that we start to adjust interest rates? We are

trained to be as clear as possible about that. Slow and gentle. Limited

and gradual, yes. Let's talk about the recovery itself because you have

said it is not balanced yet and not sustainable. What needs to happen to

make that happen in concrete terms? What we have had so far is a

consumer led recovery. Households in Britain have started to spend a bit

more, that is the core of what has happened in the economy. We haven't

seen business investment picking up and we certainly haven't seen net

exports recovering. It will be difficult on the export side, Europe

is still weak, it will take some time. The key to this recovery

sustaining itself will be around business investment. It is part of

the reason we are trying to provide as much clarity to business, that

the path of interest rate is going to be calibrated very carefully to

ensure that only when we see sustainable growth in jobs, in

incomes and in spending will we make adjustments. You have said we will

not go back to the old days of high interest rates for the foreseeable

future. I suppose some would say a caricature of the old economy was

that people were spending far more than they were burning, they rushed

into housing bubbles from time to time and there was low productivity

in the economy. Those things remain true so how can we be sure we won't

be facing inflation? I could take issue with every one of those

characterisations but I will pick a few. In the housing market we have

seen an adjustment from very low levels. If you look at how many

houses were purchased, mortgages were taken on, they have dropped by

more than 50%, and have now bounced back but they are still more than

25% below historic averages. In terms of the number of houses being

bought, but not the price? The prices relative to incomes have come

down relative to historic levels but we have to be very cautious of the

history, the economic history of Britain. There is a history of boom

and bust in the housing market and that is one of the reasons why the

Bank of England have been given additional powers and one of the

reasons as of last November we started to use them. We have

tightened up on capital standards, taken away special stimulus

programmes that existed before. What about the supposed Help To Buy

scheme, are you comfortable with that? If we are not, we will say,

and we will say that on our timetable. Is there a twinge of

discomfort? I would say that relative to the level of

transactions in the housing market, running at about 70,000 on an annual

basis, there is about 6000 Help To Buy so it is still pretty small. It

is all outside of London, for lower priced houses as a whole and mainly

with first-time buyers so it is not driving the housing market but we

have a responsibility to watch it. You are not too concerned about the

fast spiralling of the London property market? First we have to

make policy for the entire economy. Much of what is driven in London is

not mortgage driven but cash driven, in many cases by foreign

buyers. We cannot influence that. We change underwriting standards, it

doesn't matter, there is not a mortgage and so on, but we watch the

knock-on effect. I will say that if you look at the UK as a whole,

everywhere except Northern Ireland we are now seeing house prices begin

to recover so it is a more generalised phenomenon. Can I come

back to the medium-term prospects for interest rates. The market could

start to rage again, we could have an oil price shock, or a sudden rise

in food prices. There are always possible shocks in the system. Are

you really saying that despite all that we could look forward to below

5% interest rates for the years ahead? When we have a forecast, we

go out three years so three years from now, if you look at the

interest rates in the market today, three years from now the market

interest rate is about 2%, that implies where the Bank of England

would be three feet -- three years from now. If you put that into the

forecast we have a situation where we don't use up all the extra

capacity in the market, which is one of our objectives, we want to use up

all of the capacity. It gives you a bit of sense. In the medium-term and

the long-term as the global economy becomes more normal, interest rates

should move to more normal levels. If there are situations where there

are persistent changes to the way the British economy functions, if

there is a persistent commodity price shock, of course we have to

respond. What we are saying is that there are some very big forces

operating now and will persist. Weakness in Europe, repair of public

balance sheets, the finishing off of repairing the financial system, they

conspire collectively to keep the level of interest rates down and

people should understand that. Looking at the next period ahead,

the CBI is worried about the prospect of a referendum on Europe

and the effect of that on uncertainty, are they right to be

worried? Uncertainty is always bad for investment, and over the last

course for five years we have seen that businesses, even when they have

had cash and opportunities, they have held off from investing.

Originally because of uncertainty over the financial system, was going

to collapse, then the uncertainty about the Eurozone, was going to

collapse, both those have decreased. The uncertainties that we

can influence as the Bank of England is not a European referendum or a

Scottish referendum. What we can influence, we are very involved in

fixing the financial system, and uncertainty about that so we are

trying to provide the comfort that we are not going to adjust interest

rates until jobs, incomes and spending is OK. Last week you went

to Scotland and said that technically it was possible for

there to be a shared currency, but there would have to be a fiscal

union, an agreement between the two governments. How dramatic would that

have to be? An agreement on deficits, tax rates, what? To be

more specific, what I said, to keep very strictly to a technical

analysis to issues within currency unions. I was not opining on whether

or not it would work. On the fiscal side, there are a few issues around

banking. Specifically on the fiscal side, the observation that I made

was that in virtually all currency unions, there is substantial fiscal

arrangement that help equalise fiscal capacity. Sorry, that is

about borrowing, about tax rates, that kind of thing? Yes, and it is

to help ensure that fluctuations which inevitably happen in different

regions of currency union are helped to be smoothed out by some form of

stabilising mechanism. This is one of the fundamental challenges in the

Eurozone. It's very relevant for the United Kingdom because it is our

largest export partner. Ultimately, and I'm very clear about this, in

our view, the Eurozone will have to move to some form of deeper fiscal

arrangement. I know in terms of the Scottish and English question, if I

can put it that way, it is up to the politicians on both sides to

negotiate and not you. If for some reason they did not come to some

fiscal agreement, is it plausible for the Scots to keep the pound

anyway? Or would the Bank of England be able to send them pounds? Would

they be able to carry on using them and so forth even if there was not

in agreement? I'd rather not engage in hypotheticals. What clearly we

would do is discharge our Monday that has given to us by Parliament,

by the democratic authorities. So we don't make those decisions. The

decisions are quite rightly made for us. It would be up to the Chancellor

of the Exchequer in London? Yes. In terms of other bumps ahead, we

talked briefly about Europe. Apart from the uncertainty factor, do you

think that withdrawal from the European Union would be a problem in

terms of the forward trajectory of the economy? It is not something

that would happen on our forecast horizon. So you don't expect it? By

understanding of any potential timetable is that it is beyond our

three-year forecast. One of the other big issues we have had has

been bank bonuses. We have recently seen Barclays raising bonuses at the

same time as cutting dividends and profits. Is that an acceptable thing

for a bank to be doing? Are you worried the bonus culture hasn't

quite been tackled in London? I'm not going to comment on it specific

firm. We think with compensation to bankers that an increasing

proportion, as they become more senior, as they take more risk,

should be held back. You call it a bonus, we look at it differently. It

should be held back, it should be deferred for a very long time. And

there should be the ability, and we have the expectation, that the firm

will take back that compensation if the individual is subsequently found

to have taken the risks that were not understood, or if their conduct

issues. Unfortunately, we have seen both far too much. The structure of

compensation has to move in that direction. We think more deferral,

for a longer period of time, is the right way to do it. That is the core

thing. The second thing, and we put this not just here into regulation,

but we have helped put this into regulation globally, firms cannot

pay bonuses, their ability to pay bonuses is restricted if their

capital level starts to reduce. These are the new rules? These are

the many rules, they are hard-wired into the capital system. That will

start to have real teeth as time goes on. You are very very powerful

in this country, can you tell some of our viewers how you find working

in London, as compared to the 80s and 90s? What do you find about the

culture here? The culture is even more cosmopolitan than it was when I

first worked here in the late 80s. Even then, the city was

internationalised. I think the level of innovation is just as great. I

would say about the UK as a whole, again, this is no deep inside, but

if you're at the culture as a whole, not just working culture, music,

theatre, food, any aspect, the UK has made quantum leaps, further

quantum leaps from an already high base. Its influence internationally

is absolutely phenomenal. So it is a privilege to have this role, on a

personal level, to have this opportunity for myself in the UK.

But it is also a privilege being given the great responsibility that

this institution has. Thank you for joining us.

The cool Mark Carney. They call him the George Clooney of finance.

George Clooney is not only one of the top film stars in the world,

he's also at the forefront of producing and directing big budget

movies. His latest, The Monuments Men is an old-fashioned war film

about the vast looting of art that went on under the Nazis and the

Allied men whose job it was to grab it back and save it. George Clooney

explained to me why he wanted to make this film in particular. But

first, the author whose Book it is based on told me the full extent of

the largest art theft in history. By the time the officers find these

salt mines and caves in castles, the 2000 hiding places, gather these

things into the collecting points to begin the lengthy process of sorting

through them and returning them, they have 5 million stolen objects.

A vast treasure trove, the greatest artist is on the planet, many of the

greatest sculptors? When we talk about art, we need to talk about a

broader context. 5000 church bells, stained glass, drawings, tapestries,

jewellery, coin collections, anything with any value was stolen

by the Nazis. Exactly what we're fighting for. Culture, and a way of

life. You can wipe out the generation of people, you can burn

their homes to the ground and somehow they still come back. But if

you destroy their achievements, their history, it's like they never

existed. Just... Ash, floating. In Hollywood, we do like to tell a

World War II story, I think England has some of the same things. It's a

fairly clear good guy, bad guy film and story. But I didn't know this

story. I like to think I'm fairly boned up on World War II. I knew

some of the ideas, that Hitler was taking a hard, but I didn't know how

systematic it was. I didn't know about these men and women that

worked furiously to save the culture of Europe's art. It is an

old-fashioned, big budget movie. If it wasn't George Clooney heading

this, it would not have been made, presumably? For the last 15 years or

so, I have focused on trying to get films made that are not easily made

otherwise. Because they are going to get made anyway. Michael Clayton,

Good Night, Good Luck, The Descendants, they are hard to get

made. You leverage in your pulling power in Hollywood to get films made

that wouldn't otherwise be made? If you think about what salaries are

for actors, which are ridiculous, but they are real, if you are saying

to a studio, well, I will do this for scale and take some money on the

back-end, you are several million dollars of investment in the film.

If the film is a $15 million film otherwise, you are as much of an

investor as the studio. You are working with them. This is a film

about idealism, a film noticeable by its complete lack of cynicism, it

has been said, and I think that is true. Della Grant, my producing and

writing partner for 31 years, Week tend to find ourselves making very

cynical films. We have Argo for that. We have a lot of films that

don't have good endings, necessarily. Why don't we do one

that would remind me of the war films I grew up with, you probably

did too. Kelly's Heroes, Which Too Far. You and John Claude get as

close to Germany as you can. We'll leave in the morning. I'll had up to

my old stomping ground, Bruges. There is a Madonna there are use to

see when I was young. When they did this, in 1944, it was the first time

in the history of war where the victors gave the spoils back. We

have lost our way a little bit. When we prosecuted the war in Iraq, a

full's journey anyway, when we went in there, we did not protect the

National museums. Some of the most important artefacts in the history

of the human race were lost. That's just terrible. You know, what the

Taliban did in Afghanistan, certain things you just go, we are not

learning our lesson, necessarily. Can I ask very briefly about another

film? It's very rare you go to this MR and see something you have never

seen before, and I felt that with Gravity. A totally different type of

film. Houston, this is Explorer. Copy? We've lost Houston. We've lost

Houston! The only real, living, moving thing is your face and Sandra

Bullock's face from year to about here. What was that like to act? A

strange experience? It was a strange experience, we cannot see what

Alphonso sees. You have to go into it, trusting him. It was two years

of shooting, on and off. All kind of blue screen? It was a thing called a

light box. It was amazing. They invented it for this. We would go

back and shoot stuff equals the technology was yet to be invented

when we were shooting. What I love about the film is that it brought

back the idea that you can't see this film on your big-screen TV. You

need to go. You absolutely do, to be immersed in it. You have fame,

fantastic well, you are able to make the films you want, is there any

downside to your life? I would say this, I can make this argument for

you, I grew up in Canterbury. I cut tobacco in summer. I sold ladies

shoes at a department store. I can't imagine, I was making $3 an hour, I

couldn't imagine hearing someone who gets to make any money they want to

make, who has fame and money, I can't imagine hearing them

complaining about a thing without having read theory go up my spine.

The things that would become placated and difficult for me are

beyond anything I should talk about. -- read theory.

So, to Britain in Europe. The issue which obsesses Westminster more than

any other. The referendum, free movement of people, the Scots, you

name it. The President of the EU Commission, Jose Manuel Barroso, is

the man David Cameron and Salmond must do business with. Can I ask how

the negotiations are going with David Cameron? So far there is no

proposal for a new treaty or some changes. We have taken notice of the

statements made by Prime Minister Cameron as the Conservative leader

because the Government of Britain as such has not put forward any

proposals so far. So no negotiations so far really. In terms of a lot of

the things written would like to see renegotiated, I suppose top of the

list is the movement of free people, is that up for grabs? We

have to make a clear distinction, one is freedom of movement, a

fundamental principle of the internal market. We have an internal

market, that is on the freedom of movement, goods, services, capital

and people. The British people and British companies receive access to

the internal market so I don't think it is possible, but to fight against

abuse of the freedom of movement, this is certainly possible, in fact

we have already now reinforced the rules so we are tough against

abuse. It is a legitimate concern we can address but without putting in

question, and we have to be very firm, the extremely important

principle of freedom of movement which is so important for Britain as

the internal market is. You have been speaking about the Euro crisis

and the changes that have to be made to the euro bloc. I right in saying

there has to be deeper fiscal union as well, harmonising tax rates, a

single system? Deeper fiscal union, certainly, and I think it will be

unavoidable to have reforms. The markets are demanding that and in

fact we have been moving in that direction in respect of the current

treaty. This is possible and desirable. In effect a single

European government? Increased governance certainly because in the

end, and we have learned this through the financial crisis, the

fluidity and solidity of a currency depends on the construction behind

it and the most acute moments of the crisis, I was thinking of President

Obama or the president of China, Japan, the questions they were

putting was not so much what was going to be the level of deficit of

Greece, but do we believe the monetary union will develop? That

was the question. That kind of change would require presumably the

new treaty, and that would be David Cameron's moment for a referendum

with us because it would be inevitable, if there was a deeper

European Court, our relationship with it would be different as well.

-- European core. Any point that Britain wants to make for a reform

of the treaty requires the other 27 countries, they are sovereign

countries as well, to accept the same way. Any reforms they make also

require Britain to accept. If there is goodwill and intelligence on all

sides, it is possible provided there is not an attempt to put in question

the basic principles of our European -- our union. The British government

and Prime Minister Cameron have been very supportive because they

understand it is also in the interests of Britain and the

interest of the world, the financial stability, but at the same time we

have two deepen the area and we have two deepen the integrity of the

single market. It represents to the British government 90 billion pounds

per year for the British economy so it is extremely important not to put

that at risk. It seems that what David Cameron says he wants, the

European union which is looser, will not happen. Will this happen by

2017? I cannot commit to any dates, we have to know if the British

government will keep that position. I think it is important to have in

mind, I don't see a contradiction between deepening the euro area,

that is certainly desirable, and having some flexibility for the

European Union provided the general framework is kept as it is. For

instance we have already now countries in the euro, countries not

in the euro, and we have possibility to opt out of justice and foreign

affairs so it is possible to come to an arrangement but it is for the

member states to decide. Something like putting a cap on the number of

EU citizens that can come into Britain, is that going beyond what

is acceptable? It is in contradiction with the freedom of

the movement because the British, I think there are 2,200,000 British in

the European Union and they will not have the same access. It means the

British companies will not be free to make their businesses in France

and Germany, so I really believe that is not... Also there will be a

problem of reciprocity. If Britain gives freedom of access to the other

countries in Europe, it is important also to have the same access of

British companies. We are going to have a referendum this year about

Scottish independence from the rest of the UK. An independent Scotland

would have to reapply for membership of the EU, and the second question

is would it be welcome? The referendum or the independence? An

independent Scotland applying for membership of the EU. I don't want

to go into hypothetical questions but I can say we respect the process

going on. It is for the Scottish people and the British citizens to

decide about the future of Scotland. What you have said is perfectly

right. In case there is a new country, a new state coming out of

our current member states, you have to apply and it is very important,

the application. The accession would have to be approved by all of the

other countries in the European Union. And countries like Spain who

have similar issues as well. I don't want to comment, of course it would

be extremely difficult to get approval of all the other member

states to have a new member coming from one member state. We have seen

for instance Spain has been opposing even the recognition of Kosovo for

instance so it is a similar case because it is a new country so I

believe it will be extremely difficult if not impossible, a new

member state coming out of one of our country is getting the agreement

of the other members. Having said that, it is now for the British

people and the Scottish people in their referendum to decide about

their future. Would it affect how Scotland is regarded, if it said it

wanted to be a member state? I cannot go into detail because this

is a hypothetical question. I don't think I should interfere. It is up

for the Scottish people to decide and the British people also, but

certainly I think if you raise a lot of difficulties, and it will never

be easy that process. There has been some suggestion Britain will apply

to the EU for special flood money, is there money available? I have

already stated that if the conditions are met because there are

some criteria, we will look at that request very constructively. In fact

Britain already received in 2007 money from this fund. Jose Manuel

Barroso, thank you for joining us this morning. Now the news

headlines. The Defence Secretary have said there are 5000 more troops

of varying levels of notice that could be deployed to flood hit

areas. Philip Hammond also said Royal Engineers would be drafted in

to carry out a rapid inspection of the level of damage to the

infrastructure of the country. We have agreed with the Environment

Agency we will use Royal Engineers to do a rapid inspection of the

flood defences so we will try to do in five weeks what would be a

two-year programme of inspection. It is important for people to

remember, this series of weather events over the last two months has

caused serious damage. The president of the European commission has said

that freedom of movement within the EU could not be included in any

renegotiation of the UK's relationship with the rest of the

European Union. He said it was a fundamental principle and added that

it would not be possible for any individual country to cap the number

of migrants allowed in. The next news on BBC One is at one o'clock.

Back to Andrew in a moment. First, a look at what's coming up immediately

after this programme. Join us live from Edinburgh at ten o'clock when

we will be debating whether love can truly heal or split in the Church.

And the right to die, and does religion need a God?

Boy George is one of the most colourful and consistently

successful figures in modern British music. Over 30 years ago he fronted

Culture Club when their hit single 'Do You Really Want To Hurt Me?'

reached the number one spot in 16 different countries and "'Karma

Chameleon' also rocketed to the top of the charts. He's been plagued

since then by drink, drugs and controversy but he's a survivor and

now he's back - clean and sober. You are going to play for us in the

moment but how has becoming sober changed your music? What would have

happened to you if you hadn't? I wouldn't be on your lovely show. You

are on our lovely show, and thank you very much indeed. Sadly we're

right out of time. Join me again at the same time next Sunday here on

BBC One. Until then, we leave you with Boy George. From his new album,

this is 'My God'. # A man gives me the book of God and

I turn to him and said # I wouldn't be here my friend if I had no faith

# Here in the darkness I became the light # I had to get it wrong to get

it right # He crossed himself and I shook my head # He said "Jesus loves

you, don't you know?" # My God is bigger than your god # My God is

better than yours # Put your palms away # You need a little more faith

# Don't you know what your heart is for?

# You should know what your heart is for

# Saw the devil down in New York City # All dressed up like a saint #

You're in your phony crown and war paint # You see number six # But

blue boys took you down # Watch you fall apart like fate in China Town #

I cross myself and he shook his head # I said "Jesus loves me, don't you

know?" # My God is bigger than your god # Put your faith in the good

Lord # Put your palms away # You need a little more faith # Don't you

know what your heart is for? # You should know what your heart is