Browse content similar to 09/03/2014. Check below for episodes and series from the same categories and more!
Line | From | To | |
---|---|---|---|
Hello, good morning and welcome. That's not normally how I start this | :00:33. | :00:39. | |
show. But that was the five-word signature of my great predecessor, | :00:40. | :00:44. | |
Sir David Frost. He gets his memorial service at Westminster | :00:45. | :00:47. | |
Abbey - plus a plaque, no less - this coming week. And joining us for | :00:48. | :00:53. | |
our review of the Sunday newspapers, we have one of Sir David's sons with | :00:54. | :00:57. | |
us - Wilfred Frost. Also here, just back from Ukraine, is the BBC's | :00:58. | :01:01. | |
Europe editor, Gavin Hewitt. And the broadcaster and Labour peer Joan | :01:02. | :01:02. | |
Bakewell. The standoff in Ukraine continues - | :01:03. | :01:10. | |
well, there are many worse things than a standoff - while Crimea | :01:11. | :01:14. | |
continues to simmer. Private Eye's cover last week announced "Winter | :01:15. | :01:17. | |
Paramilitary Games Begin", with a picture of President Putin saying, | :01:18. | :01:21. | |
"I think Russia is going to win the shooting." Well, many people think | :01:22. | :01:25. | |
Russia IS going to win the shooting. Are they wrong? The Foreign | :01:26. | :01:30. | |
Secretary, William Hague, who has been in Kiev talking to Ukrainian | :01:31. | :01:33. | |
leaders and in Brussels for the EU talks, joins us live in the studio. | :01:34. | :01:38. | |
One of the major factors that hampers the West's response to | :01:39. | :01:42. | |
Russia is of course energy. Increasingly, Europe needs their | :01:43. | :01:47. | |
gas. The Lib Dem Energy Secretary, Ed Davey, will be here later. Will a | :01:48. | :01:52. | |
Russian freeze have an impact on prices here? And after this | :01:53. | :01:55. | |
weekend's Lib Dem Spring Conference, we'll also be talking about Cabinet | :01:56. | :01:58. | |
tensions over climate change and immigration. David Cameron | :01:59. | :02:02. | |
distracted himself from those tensions by going to the theatre | :02:03. | :02:05. | |
last week, to see the stage adaptations of Hilary Mantel's books | :02:06. | :02:08. | |
about power struggles in Tudor England. I've been talking to the | :02:09. | :02:14. | |
author, and the actor who plays her Thomas Cromwell. Plus, we have | :02:15. | :02:28. | |
music. Paloma Faith will be here later, live in the studio. It's long | :02:29. | :02:33. | |
been a principle of this programme to be resolutely uncool. But Paloma | :02:34. | :02:43. | |
Faith? We are in danger of breaking our own principles! First, the news | :02:44. | :02:49. | |
with Naga Munchetty. Good morning. Search teams are still trying to | :02:50. | :02:51. | |
establish what happened to a Malaysia Airlines passenger plane | :02:52. | :02:54. | |
which disappeared over the South China Sea with 239 people onboard. | :02:55. | :02:57. | |
Radar signals show the plane may have turned back shortly before it | :02:58. | :03:00. | |
vanished. The Boeing 777 disappeared en route to Beijing from Kuala | :03:01. | :03:03. | |
Lumpur. It was flying south of Vietnam at the time. No wreckage has | :03:04. | :03:07. | |
been found yet, but the Vietnamese air force says it has spotted two | :03:08. | :03:10. | |
oil slicks. Malaysian officials say they are now investigating the | :03:11. | :03:13. | |
identities of two passengers who were flying on stolen passports. Our | :03:14. | :03:16. | |
South Asia correspondent John Sudworth reports. | :03:17. | :03:27. | |
Spotter planes searching for the missing plane have found the first | :03:28. | :03:30. | |
possible clue, this large oil slick, far out to sea. Relatives of those | :03:31. | :03:37. | |
on board have been taken to a Beijing hotel. But few can now doubt | :03:38. | :03:44. | |
that something terrible has happened to the plane. At a press conference | :03:45. | :03:50. | |
in Malaysia this morning, a government minister confirmed that | :03:51. | :03:53. | |
they are investigating reports that at least two of the passengers had | :03:54. | :03:56. | |
boarded the plane using stolen passports. I am in touch with the | :03:57. | :04:04. | |
international intelligence agencies. At the same time, our own | :04:05. | :04:08. | |
intelligence has been activated, and of course, the counterterrorism | :04:09. | :04:17. | |
units from all the relevant countries have been informed, and | :04:18. | :04:21. | |
that is what I have been doing since yesterday. For now, this is still a | :04:22. | :04:25. | |
search and rescue operation, with a number of navies, including the | :04:26. | :04:29. | |
Chinese and the Americans, assisting the effort. But while the families | :04:30. | :04:35. | |
here in Beijing wait for information, the news that there may | :04:36. | :04:39. | |
be something suspicious about the passenger list will only add to | :04:40. | :04:45. | |
their sense of alarm. And with more than 150 Chinese citizens on board, | :04:46. | :04:49. | |
in the midst of its annual Parliamentary session, a time of | :04:50. | :04:53. | |
heightened national security, the Chinese government is also watching | :04:54. | :04:54. | |
developments carefully. The US has warned Russia that any | :04:55. | :05:02. | |
attempt to annex the Crimean region of Ukraine would close the door to | :05:03. | :05:05. | |
diplomacy. Shots were fired yesterday as a team of international | :05:06. | :05:08. | |
observers was turned back from entering Crimea, which is now | :05:09. | :05:10. | |
controlled by Russian forces. Overnight, the American President, | :05:11. | :05:13. | |
Barack Obama, discussed the deepening crisis with other world | :05:14. | :05:14. | |
leaders. The Co-operative Group is to give | :05:15. | :05:21. | |
large pay rises and bonuses to its senior staff, despite the | :05:22. | :05:24. | |
expectation that it will report the worst losses in its history later | :05:25. | :05:26. | |
this month. The Observer newspaper has seen a document which suggests | :05:27. | :05:30. | |
that the Group's new chief executive will receive an overall salary | :05:31. | :05:33. | |
package worth more than ?3 million. The Co-operative say executives' pay | :05:34. | :05:36. | |
was in line with that of comparable firms. | :05:37. | :05:46. | |
Some terminally-ill patients are suffering unnecessarily because of | :05:47. | :05:50. | |
poor access to pain control at home, according to a leading health | :05:51. | :05:54. | |
charity. A report for Marie Curie Cancer Care highlights what it calls | :05:55. | :05:56. | |
"terrifying" delays for prescriptions, and carers feeling | :05:57. | :05:58. | |
"abandoned". NHS England has welcomed the report, and says it is | :05:59. | :06:02. | |
developing a programme of action to improve care. An extra ?140 million | :06:03. | :06:10. | |
of government money is being made available to councils in England to | :06:11. | :06:13. | |
help them repair roads damaged by the severe winter weather. The | :06:14. | :06:16. | |
Department for Transport says most of the money will be disturbed at it | :06:17. | :06:21. | |
by the end of the week. The Local Government Association said councils | :06:22. | :06:23. | |
welcomed the extra funding but claimed that it would not cover the | :06:24. | :06:26. | |
full cost of repairs. That's all from me for now. I'll be back with | :06:27. | :06:30. | |
the headlines just before ten o'clock. Back to you, Andrew. Thank | :06:31. | :06:37. | |
you Naga. Now to the papers. The only paper which has really been | :06:38. | :06:42. | |
able to go on the plane tragedy is the Sunday Telegraph. It is asking | :06:43. | :06:45. | |
the question, were terrorists responsible? The Observer has gone | :06:46. | :06:51. | |
with the story about the Co-operative Group, which we have | :06:52. | :06:54. | |
just been hearing about. And the Sunday Times has a headline about a | :06:55. | :07:01. | |
secret BBC report regarding scrapping the licence fee. The BBC | :07:02. | :07:04. | |
has said this morning that that is not the case. Joining me, as | :07:05. | :07:11. | |
promised, Wilf Frost, Joan Bakewell and Gavin Hewitt. It must be strange | :07:12. | :07:14. | |
for you sitting here where your father once sat. I wonder whether | :07:15. | :07:19. | |
the newspapers dominated your childhood, at the weekend, | :07:20. | :07:25. | |
particularly? They did indeed. He adored the papers, it was a great | :07:26. | :07:29. | |
hobby of his to pour over them all weekend. That was a battle for us as | :07:30. | :07:33. | |
kids, to get him away from them. He had this wonderful oak desk where he | :07:34. | :07:38. | |
would have them all spread out. We would sneak in and hide underneath | :07:39. | :07:42. | |
it, ready to jump out at him. I remember on one occasion, just as we | :07:43. | :07:46. | |
were about to jump out, he received a phone call - Mr President! And we | :07:47. | :07:52. | |
decided to sit tight for a while. Gavin, these are newspapers Sir | :07:53. | :07:56. | |
David Frost would have enjoyed hugely. Take us through the best of | :07:57. | :08:02. | |
it. I think there are three papers which really caught my eye on the | :08:03. | :08:07. | |
subject of Ukraine. My favourite headline on the subject is this week | :08:08. | :08:12. | |
headline in the Sunday Times - what would the West fight for? I think | :08:13. | :08:18. | |
really, that is the question of the week. After all the diplomacy which | :08:19. | :08:23. | |
was going on in Brussels and in Paris, I was actually in Kiev, and | :08:24. | :08:28. | |
people said afterwards, is that it? That was when they heard that these | :08:29. | :08:33. | |
negotiations were going to be frozen between the EU and Moscow. What this | :08:34. | :08:38. | |
paper raises is the question, how much do we really think is at stake | :08:39. | :08:41. | |
and what are we prepared to do about it? What I also like is, when they | :08:42. | :08:46. | |
look at Germany, they point out the economic costs of all of this, in | :08:47. | :08:54. | |
the sense that, more than 6000 German companies do business in | :08:55. | :08:57. | |
Moscow. They are dependent on natural gas from Russia, I think 35% | :08:58. | :09:03. | |
of their gas. All of the big German car companies now have big | :09:04. | :09:05. | |
manufacturing plants in Russia. They do. And in the end, I think it is | :09:06. | :09:11. | |
not just Germany. One interesting quote which I saw during the week, | :09:12. | :09:15. | |
but which re-emerges in the Observer, in their editorial today, | :09:16. | :09:21. | |
is, what about the City of London? They have a quote from a | :09:22. | :09:25. | |
journalist, saying, Britain is ready to protect the holder of the City of | :09:26. | :09:28. | |
London on dirty Russian money, and forget about the Ukraine. Now, you | :09:29. | :09:32. | |
may not necessarily agree with that, but certainly on the streets | :09:33. | :09:36. | |
of Kiev, there is the sense that they might be abandoned, that in the | :09:37. | :09:41. | |
end, it might just be that Crimea has already slipped beyond getting | :09:42. | :09:47. | |
it back. I think the most important new piece of news broke too late | :09:48. | :09:50. | |
this morning to make the newspapers, but John Kerry has said, if it goes | :09:51. | :09:57. | |
on like this, we will close down the diplomatic space. Now, diplomacy is | :09:58. | :10:02. | |
what we need more of. We need more and more diplomacy, stretching as | :10:03. | :10:07. | |
far as it need go, until there was a resolution. What we do not want is | :10:08. | :10:12. | |
to blackmail people into taking a Chen. We want people to -- taking | :10:13. | :10:21. | |
action. We are commemorating the start of World War I. They should | :10:22. | :10:28. | |
have kept on talking. The Sunday Times has ten ways to punish Putin. | :10:29. | :10:34. | |
The bottom one is, send in troops. But they say, this is not going to | :10:35. | :10:39. | |
happen. I think the most likely effective punishment is a long-term | :10:40. | :10:43. | |
one, rather than a short-term one, which would be to damage Russia's | :10:44. | :10:49. | |
exports of natural gas. But that requires European politicians to be | :10:50. | :10:52. | |
brave enough to say to their electorates that gas will run out, | :10:53. | :10:56. | |
and will be getting more expensive, which is a hard thing to say? It is, | :10:57. | :11:00. | |
and it is not something which can happen quickly in the short-term. | :11:01. | :11:05. | |
But with US gas exports increasing in the years ahead, it is Russia | :11:06. | :11:11. | |
might regret. Also, in terms of world politics, is the move of the | :11:12. | :11:15. | |
Crimea into the Russian world of global, to the brink, significance? | :11:16. | :11:21. | |
I think we all need to ask that. I do not know the answer. The other | :11:22. | :11:26. | |
huge story this morning is the downing of this aircraft. Gavin, you | :11:27. | :11:31. | |
have covered a very similar case. The 777 is one of the safest | :11:32. | :11:36. | |
airliners in the world, however? It is. When a plane disappears, and | :11:37. | :11:40. | |
there is no communication, usually, it is regarded as a catastrophic | :11:41. | :11:45. | |
incident. Of course, most people will think that it was probably a | :11:46. | :11:50. | |
bomb on board. But some years ago, I covered the fall of a plane taking | :11:51. | :11:57. | |
off from JFK, I think it was. And later, although this was disputed, | :11:58. | :12:01. | |
their conclusion was that it was what they called a fuel air | :12:02. | :12:05. | |
explosion. I am sure that even though they will be looking at | :12:06. | :12:10. | |
terrorism, there sometimes can be catastrophic events, which are | :12:11. | :12:12. | |
extremely rare, but other than terrorism. Wilf Frost, you have | :12:13. | :12:19. | |
chosen the Sunday Telegraph? Indeed. It has got the question, were | :12:20. | :12:24. | |
terrorists behind the plane tragedy? Of course, we do not know yet. But | :12:25. | :12:29. | |
what strikes me is that two men were travelling on stolen passports, one | :12:30. | :12:33. | |
of which was reported stolen two years ago. I find it amazing that | :12:34. | :12:38. | |
they were able to get on the plane. And of course China has its own | :12:39. | :12:42. | |
separatist, Islamist problem. Indeed, although it is hard to know | :12:43. | :12:48. | |
if that was anything to do with it at this stage. I suppose the | :12:49. | :12:51. | |
overriding thought is one of deep sympathy with all of the families | :12:52. | :12:55. | |
involved. On a similarly sober note, let's turn to a domestic story. Yes, | :12:56. | :13:01. | |
ministers clear the path for assisted suicide to be legal. MPs | :13:02. | :13:05. | |
are to get a free vote on a bill coming up in the autumn, following a | :13:06. | :13:10. | |
private members' bill. And it looks as though the law is shifting, so | :13:11. | :13:14. | |
that people will not be prosecuted, and there will be more tolerance. | :13:15. | :13:18. | |
They will be given a free vote on a bill which will enable doctors to | :13:19. | :13:24. | |
help terminally ill people to die. The regulations issued several years | :13:25. | :13:30. | |
ago by Keir Starmer made it unlikely that family and close friends would | :13:31. | :13:34. | |
be prosecuted for helping with assisted suicide, but it left the | :13:35. | :13:38. | |
medical profession rather unsure of whether they would be prosecuted. | :13:39. | :13:42. | |
And they need the protection so that they can help people who are dying | :13:43. | :13:47. | |
anyway, they are being killed by a disease, but the pain becomes | :13:48. | :13:50. | |
intolerable. You are very interested in this issue, Joan, is there any | :13:51. | :13:56. | |
idea of how many people want to be doing this around the country, the | :13:57. | :14:00. | |
numbers? I think about 40 cases have been referred since the Keir Starmer | :14:01. | :14:05. | |
ruling. I think about two people might have been prosecuted. | :14:06. | :14:09. | |
Clearly, those were not sympathetic people. As far as I know, people | :14:10. | :14:14. | |
have stopped going to Switzerland, which is just an enormous imposition | :14:15. | :14:18. | |
on people who have got enough problems anyway. But I think the | :14:19. | :14:24. | |
polls which are constantly being taken are showing that public | :14:25. | :14:27. | |
opinion is now very, very strongly in support of a change to the law | :14:28. | :14:31. | |
which allows compression and tenderness and real medical concern | :14:32. | :14:35. | |
to take priority over an absolute ruling. My eye was drawn to | :14:36. | :14:42. | |
something which I am sure will come up again, as we close in on the | :14:43. | :14:49. | |
election, and that is executive pay. It is about what the head of the | :14:50. | :14:54. | |
Co-op Bank might be receiving, when they are letting go a significant | :14:55. | :14:58. | |
number of people. I was looking at a comment column by Will Hutton, and | :14:59. | :15:05. | |
he makes this charge - the evidence suggests that performance, | :15:06. | :15:08. | |
productivity and innovation across British business are touching new | :15:09. | :15:13. | |
lows. And I am certain a lot of people will remember the | :15:14. | :15:16. | |
Co-operative Bank, and I think they will again wonder why it is that | :15:17. | :15:21. | |
executives need to get paid these huge sums of money. It is a strange | :15:22. | :15:26. | |
thing, the profits go down, the bonuses go up. It is very strange, | :15:27. | :15:32. | |
because what they always say is, yes, we must have the top people, | :15:33. | :15:36. | |
and the top people demand the equivalent pay of other chief | :15:37. | :15:40. | |
executives. Why don't they lower all the standards of pay, so that they | :15:41. | :15:44. | |
would all have comparatively the same, at a much lower and more | :15:45. | :15:53. | |
logical level? Let's move on to the Paralympics. Jade Etherington has | :15:54. | :16:14. | |
won a medal. It seems more dangerous and faster than any other kind of | :16:15. | :16:26. | |
event. Yes, she and her partner go down together, very exciting. This | :16:27. | :16:34. | |
is the week of the Lawrence story revisited and a new commitment to | :16:35. | :16:40. | |
another inquiry because of police secrecy infiltrating the Lawrence | :16:41. | :16:45. | |
family. Scotland Yard are still up to it here. They are in a new | :16:46. | :16:49. | |
undercover police row, this is an attempt to stop the legal bid by the | :16:50. | :16:54. | |
women who were seduced by undercover agents, some of them having | :16:55. | :16:59. | |
children, and they were making a bid to prosecute. That is being fought | :17:00. | :17:05. | |
by Scotland Yard to stop it happening. The former director of | :17:06. | :17:11. | |
prosecutions, Lord MacDonald, accused the police of engendering a | :17:12. | :17:16. | |
culture of deceit. Do they never learn? It is pretty grim. Gavin. | :17:17. | :17:24. | |
Usually when I am not in Kiev and places like that, I spend a lot of | :17:25. | :17:31. | |
time in Brussels. I was drawn to the Express this morning who have this | :17:32. | :17:37. | |
headline, the EU could dig up your garden. They say that under new | :17:38. | :17:42. | |
rules, authorities will have the power to come into your homes and | :17:43. | :17:47. | |
destroyed plants including the Virginia creeper, but these invasive | :17:48. | :17:54. | |
species they have decided needs sorting out. It is something I have | :17:55. | :17:59. | |
so far missed in Brussels but obviously I need to look at this. We | :18:00. | :18:05. | |
had Jose Manuel Barroso in the studio recently, he could have done | :18:06. | :18:15. | |
some gardening. Wilfred, your next story? I was going to touch on the | :18:16. | :18:21. | |
move from the BBC Three to the Internet. It is a great shame but I | :18:22. | :18:31. | |
think it is a sensible move, and as Peter Preston says in the Observer, | :18:32. | :18:36. | |
conventional television is caught on the cusp of change. Young people | :18:37. | :18:42. | |
watch much less television live these days and this is a sensible | :18:43. | :18:48. | |
move. What were your father's views on changing television? He moved to | :18:49. | :18:55. | |
Al Jazeera towards the end of his career. Modern technology was not | :18:56. | :19:01. | |
his forte, it is funny that he was a pioneer in the world of television | :19:02. | :19:06. | |
for many years but could not turn my television set himself! On Sunday | :19:07. | :19:11. | |
afternoon you could be sure to get a telephone call asking how to | :19:12. | :19:17. | |
navigate his way to Sky Sports. Sounds very familiar indeed! Joan, | :19:18. | :19:25. | |
have you got any more stories? This is a picture story and it is a | :19:26. | :19:31. | |
photograph of someone who has won an Oscar, it is Cate Blanchett. What | :19:32. | :19:37. | |
are they like on the morning after? She is sitting up in bed, perfectly | :19:38. | :19:42. | |
made up, her beautiful gown lying on her bed, it is such a setup and it | :19:43. | :19:50. | |
is so hilarious. A day in the life of a star. Where is the Oscar? By | :19:51. | :20:01. | |
the bedside with a cup of coffee. David Frost never got an Oscar but | :20:02. | :20:06. | |
he will be getting his great ceremony on Thursday, tell us about | :20:07. | :20:11. | |
it. It is a wonderful honour that the Dean of Westminster has bestowed | :20:12. | :20:16. | |
upon him, to have the service in Westminster Abbey. It is totally | :20:17. | :20:25. | |
down to him, and he felt that Dad had been in people's living room for | :20:26. | :20:33. | |
50 years and this was an honour that he deserved. It is very much a | :20:34. | :20:37. | |
celebration of his life, and to have it there with 1500 people, the only | :20:38. | :20:43. | |
shame is that he will not be there himself because he would have loved | :20:44. | :20:51. | |
it. He would have loved it. Over to the weather now. It will be warmer | :20:52. | :20:56. | |
than the Greek islands here this weekend. Balmy as I came in. A sunny | :20:57. | :21:00. | |
start to spring. Will it last? Over to Nina Ridge in the weather studio. | :21:01. | :21:06. | |
We may see 18 degrees somewhere, but not everywhere. As a rough guide, | :21:07. | :21:14. | |
much of England and Wales seeing the best of the brightness and those | :21:15. | :21:20. | |
temperatures. It is further north and the west sticking with more | :21:21. | :21:26. | |
cloud and outbreaks of rain. Also the contrast because parts of west | :21:27. | :21:30. | |
Wales have had more cloud this morning, along with west Cornwall | :21:31. | :21:34. | |
and parts of Cumbria. Through the day, a lot of that should clear | :21:35. | :21:41. | |
away. The focus of the rain will be in central and southern areas of | :21:42. | :21:44. | |
Scotland and parts of Northern Ireland. Though quite breezy to the | :21:45. | :21:50. | |
south, that breeze keeping the temperatures down. It is in the | :21:51. | :21:55. | |
south-east where we are likely to see the high temperatures of 17, | :21:56. | :22:02. | |
18. A cold day, but with that we could see some snow through the | :22:03. | :22:10. | |
night tonight. More cloud further south so cool day to come for | :22:11. | :22:15. | |
England and Wales, but in contrast, things improving further north. | :22:16. | :22:17. | |
Sunshine in and Edinburgh. "I am going to defend the tolerant | :22:18. | :22:28. | |
and modern Britain we love" against UKIP's "ungenerous, backward-looking | :22:29. | :22:30. | |
politics". That's the claim being made by Nick Clegg as he closes the | :22:31. | :22:34. | |
Liberal Democrat's spring conference this morning. So, what happens if | :22:35. | :22:37. | |
UKIP trounces them in the forthcoming European elections? Here | :22:38. | :22:40. | |
to talk about that, and his own brief of energy policy, is the | :22:41. | :22:44. | |
Cabinet Minister Ed Davey. Welcome. Can we start off talking about the | :22:45. | :22:49. | |
Russian crisis? We have less than 1% of our gas coming in from Russia, is | :22:50. | :22:55. | |
that right? That's right, we have very secure supplies from the North | :22:56. | :23:03. | |
Sea and from Norway, and we have a lot on ships, liquefied natural gas. | :23:04. | :23:07. | |
People should not be worried about that. What about price? If the west | :23:08. | :23:15. | |
to Russia says we are not going to take any more of your gas, the price | :23:16. | :23:26. | |
will be affected, surely? Gas is bought 18 months in advance so they | :23:27. | :23:30. | |
shouldn't be using it as an excuse to put up people's prices. We have | :23:31. | :23:36. | |
seen, when this crisis broke, there was a spike in oil and gas prices, | :23:37. | :23:42. | |
they have come down now, but if there was an escalation, if we saw | :23:43. | :23:46. | |
military conflict and if it went on for months and months, there could | :23:47. | :23:52. | |
be an impact on prices. It is one of the reasons why the Coalition | :23:53. | :23:55. | |
government believe it is important to have a mix of energy, more | :23:56. | :24:02. | |
diversified. People say the west cannot stand up to Russia because we | :24:03. | :24:06. | |
need their gas because Western politicians will not turn round and | :24:07. | :24:12. | |
look them in the eye and say, sorry, prices will have to go up because we | :24:13. | :24:18. | |
are confronting Russia. Prices have been falling markedly in recent | :24:19. | :24:24. | |
years because we have been investing in renewable energy. One of the | :24:25. | :24:28. | |
things I have been doing is going to Brussels, arguing for an ambitious | :24:29. | :24:32. | |
approach so we have more home-grown energy, so that Europe invests in | :24:33. | :24:39. | |
renewables so we don't have to depend on them. So why was Michael | :24:40. | :24:44. | |
Fallon talking about a new pipeline, to make us more dependent? | :24:45. | :24:59. | |
Which is about diversity. If you have more diversity, prices go down | :25:00. | :25:03. | |
and that is what we want for consumers. You are really still | :25:04. | :25:07. | |
worried about prices because you have written to the energy | :25:08. | :25:10. | |
regulator, and your letter implies that British Gas will have to be | :25:11. | :25:15. | |
broken up, is that a fair assessment? When the Coalition came | :25:16. | :25:22. | |
into power, we inherited the big six energy companies. From day one we | :25:23. | :25:28. | |
have been trying to increase competition. We have I think nearly | :25:29. | :25:34. | |
over 20 independent suppliers challenging the Labour Party's big | :25:35. | :25:39. | |
six. We have improved switching so a lot of people are doing that, but | :25:40. | :25:44. | |
can we do more? The evidence on domestic gas supply is that I am | :25:45. | :25:48. | |
concerned that we are seeing too much dominance, by British Gas in | :25:49. | :25:54. | |
particular but not just them, and I wanted to bring that evidence to the | :25:55. | :25:59. | |
competition authorities. We have taken action and they can now take | :26:00. | :26:04. | |
further action if they think it is required. And prices are still going | :26:05. | :26:09. | |
up so I ask again, is it possible do you think that you will call for | :26:10. | :26:14. | |
British Gas itself to be broken up? It is a matter for the Independent | :26:15. | :26:21. | |
Competition Authorities. We have provided the evidence showing there | :26:22. | :26:27. | |
could be a problem. A debate in Parliament in the wider public | :26:28. | :26:31. | |
hadn't focused on gas, even though it is two thirds of the domestic | :26:32. | :26:37. | |
electricity bill. Labour had not mentioned it. Enough about Labour, I | :26:38. | :26:44. | |
am wondering about your policy. The reason I started the debate is to | :26:45. | :26:49. | |
make sure that the competition authorities can look at it in | :26:50. | :26:54. | |
detail. It is up to them to act, we put the evidence into the public | :26:55. | :27:04. | |
domain. Do you think British Gas is in a competitive position? The | :27:05. | :27:07. | |
evidence we provided show that British Gas has 40% of the market, | :27:08. | :27:13. | |
it has some of the highest prices and highest profits in domestic gas | :27:14. | :27:20. | |
supply. It came from a publication last November... That suggests your | :27:21. | :27:28. | |
answer is yes? It is something the competition authorities should look | :27:29. | :27:33. | |
at. Let's turn to the Liberal Democrats. The big theme of the | :27:34. | :27:37. | |
conference seems to be, we are the anti-UKIP party. They are | :27:38. | :27:47. | |
intolerant, we are tolerant, that is the main theme, is that a fair | :27:48. | :27:53. | |
assessment? We have been pro-European for decades, long | :27:54. | :27:57. | |
before UKIP came on the scene so we are setting out our stall. He is | :27:58. | :28:03. | |
making the point there are people in UKIP who want to pull us out. The | :28:04. | :28:09. | |
Conservative party is very confused on this, they are flirting with | :28:10. | :28:14. | |
coming out, which is dangerous for Britain's place in the world, and we | :28:15. | :28:20. | |
think Labour has been totally silent. Where is the leadership from | :28:21. | :28:24. | |
someone who wants to be the Prime Minister? Nick is taking this to the | :28:25. | :28:31. | |
people. If he says, this is the big argument, Nigel Farage is our big | :28:32. | :28:36. | |
enemy, if UKIP beats you that means you have lost the argument, doesn't | :28:37. | :28:42. | |
it? I don't think that is the case. We came fourth in the last European | :28:43. | :28:48. | |
elections and went on to have a really good Westminster general | :28:49. | :28:53. | |
election result. We want to use the European elections as a way of | :28:54. | :28:57. | |
making the argument, and we hope that politicians from other parties | :28:58. | :29:01. | |
who share our view is that it is better for jobs, for tackling | :29:02. | :29:06. | |
climate change, for tackling crime Britain is in an Nick Clegg wants to | :29:07. | :29:11. | |
lead that argument. And the other parties are concerned about the | :29:12. | :29:17. | |
levels of immigration, but you want more? We want a balanced approach. | :29:18. | :29:25. | |
In this Government we have supported some of the measures to restrict | :29:26. | :29:29. | |
immigration and we are debating immigration at our conference, and | :29:30. | :29:33. | |
putting forward other measures to restrict it. But you would like to | :29:34. | :29:39. | |
see the extended families given free rights to come into this country? We | :29:40. | :29:52. | |
have got a balanced approach. For a start, we have got these measures | :29:53. | :29:56. | |
which would be more restrictive. But where family life is involved, where | :29:57. | :30:01. | |
it is someone's husband or wife, I think we should be more welcoming to | :30:02. | :30:04. | |
the families of people who are settled here. We do also have a | :30:05. | :30:08. | |
view, Vince Cable and Nick Clegg have been clear about this, that | :30:09. | :30:13. | |
immigrants play a very important, positive role in our society. There | :30:14. | :30:18. | |
are 40,000 foreign-born workers in the NHS. What you have just said | :30:19. | :30:25. | |
must mean more rather than less immigration from outside the EU. | :30:26. | :30:29. | |
Overall, you want more immigration, not less, that is irrefutable. No, | :30:30. | :30:35. | |
it is not. Actually, governments cannot control immigration in the | :30:36. | :30:38. | |
way that some people say they can. You need tough measures to make sure | :30:39. | :30:41. | |
that the people who come here are legitimately here, and they follow | :30:42. | :30:47. | |
the rules. We also want a political dialogue which does not denigrate | :30:48. | :30:51. | |
immigrants, because they play such a positive role. Foreign students | :30:52. | :30:56. | |
bring ?30 billion into the UK economy. Let's not be so negative | :30:57. | :31:00. | |
against immigrants, as some parties seem to want to be. Thank you for | :31:01. | :31:05. | |
joining us. It is rare for the Royal Shakespeare Company to adapt the | :31:06. | :31:08. | |
work of a living author for the stage. But then Hilary Mantel is no | :31:09. | :31:15. | |
ordinary writer. She's won a brace of Booker Prizes, has revitalised | :31:16. | :31:17. | |
historical fiction, and is a bestseller all over the world. The | :31:18. | :31:21. | |
RSC's staging of her novels Wolf Hall and Bring Up The Bodies brings | :31:22. | :31:25. | |
to life the deadly Tudor court in which Thomas Cromwell thrived - how | :31:26. | :31:28. | |
he rose from commoner to Chancellor, King Henry's shadowy enforcer. I | :31:29. | :31:31. | |
caught up with Hilary Mantel in Stratford, along with Ben Miles, who | :31:32. | :31:34. | |
plays Cromwell. He began by explaining how he prepared for this | :31:35. | :31:43. | |
epic role. My chief source material was Hilary | :31:44. | :31:48. | |
Mantel's books, which I read and read, and spent many weeks plotting | :31:49. | :31:52. | |
a storyline, narrative, for Cromwell, what he does, who he | :31:53. | :31:59. | |
meets, which I stuck on the wall of my office in the RSC rehearsal | :32:00. | :32:02. | |
rooms, and I think it went around the room about three times, this | :32:03. | :32:07. | |
narrative. One of his chief driving forces is just self survival, | :32:08. | :32:12. | |
really. He has been trying to stay out of trouble, of one form and | :32:13. | :32:19. | |
another, all his life. And he arms himself with great knowledge, great | :32:20. | :32:29. | |
skill, great diplomacy, great charm. Henry believes God will not give him | :32:30. | :32:34. | |
sons because he and Catherine were never truly married. So, he has just | :32:35. | :32:42. | |
noticed, after 18 years? In the book of Leviticus, he has found the verse | :32:43. | :32:46. | |
which forbids marrying your brother's wife. Contradictory, isn't | :32:47. | :32:53. | |
it? The king does not like it. He says, if this is God 's word, no | :32:54. | :32:57. | |
hopeless power... He is right, isn't he? You tell me, you are the | :32:58. | :33:04. | |
Cardinal. He could talk to an ambassador, he could talk to a | :33:05. | :33:09. | |
farrier, and he could know as much about each of their trades, or know | :33:10. | :33:14. | |
how to get what he wants, or rather what his client wants, from them, at | :33:15. | :33:19. | |
any time. He is one of those very rare people who can see the picture, | :33:20. | :33:25. | |
going right through social boundaries, he subverts everything, | :33:26. | :33:33. | |
he laughs when he should be serious, he turns the whole power structure | :33:34. | :33:40. | |
upside-down. That is the conception of the man. And you play the man | :33:41. | :33:46. | |
very beautifully. If I may say so, you do not look like Cromwell as we | :33:47. | :33:50. | |
know him from the Holbein portrait. You have got a very open face, if I | :33:51. | :33:55. | |
may say so, a nice smile. To what extent do you feel that you are | :33:56. | :33:58. | |
playing a villain with a hero's face, as it were? I do not feel I am | :33:59. | :34:04. | |
playing the villain. I do not think Cromwell regards himself as a | :34:05. | :34:09. | |
villain, or necessarily as a hero. He kills lots of innocent people on | :34:10. | :34:13. | |
the way, though. Yes, but he was not alone in doing that at that time. | :34:14. | :34:20. | |
That behaviour was normal behaviour, especially in the world in which | :34:21. | :34:24. | |
Cromwell lived. He did not stand out in that sense, greatly, I do not | :34:25. | :34:31. | |
think. Our brilliant producer, Mike Poulton, said, right at the | :34:32. | :34:35. | |
beginning, I am not worried about a lookalike, I just want someone who | :34:36. | :34:41. | |
looks as if, under a bridge, on a dark night, he might knife you. | :34:42. | :34:46. | |
Well, then does that sort of thing all of the time, so he was the | :34:47. | :34:51. | |
obvious go to man! This is what we want, a sense of unpredictable at | :34:52. | :34:55. | |
the end danger, someone who could turn on a sixpence. Can I ask about | :34:56. | :35:00. | |
the language, because you have chosen relatively modern sounding | :35:01. | :35:04. | |
language, and it is a very odd thing, because everybody is dressed | :35:05. | :35:09. | |
up in Judah costume, in the Royal Shakespeare companies theatre, and | :35:10. | :35:13. | |
somehow people expect a more charged, Shakespearean language? I | :35:14. | :35:16. | |
do not think you should underestimate the resonance of | :35:17. | :35:19. | |
simple, stripped down, direct language. I never wanted pastiche, | :35:20. | :35:28. | |
and the books do not use pastiche. My job is to make sure that however | :35:29. | :35:34. | |
the language is pitched, the people have Tudor thoughts. They send a | :35:35. | :35:46. | |
butcher's boy to tip me off. Charles would not go to war over his old | :35:47. | :35:50. | |
aunt, surely. He does not have to go to war, he could block aid us, when | :35:51. | :35:54. | |
winter comes, we will be pleading for mercy. Tom Cromwell, Lord | :35:55. | :36:00. | |
Chancellor of England, imagine that! I will get everything settled before | :36:01. | :36:03. | |
anyone wakes up to what is happening. I am thrilled about doing | :36:04. | :36:08. | |
these plays in modern language, if you like, because so many people | :36:09. | :36:14. | |
enjoy these plays because of that, especially younger people. There are | :36:15. | :36:18. | |
a lot of people in the audience. They seemed to congregate on that | :36:19. | :36:22. | |
side of the stage, I do not know why. And they were laughing at the | :36:23. | :36:27. | |
jokes. They were horrified by the sexism, Tudor sexism. When we say, | :36:28. | :36:33. | |
think like a Tudor, what are we talking about? We are talking about | :36:34. | :36:38. | |
attitudes to women, attitudes to death, which was everywhere, loss, | :36:39. | :36:47. | |
grief, attitudes to God, to kingship. I know that you are | :36:48. | :36:50. | |
working on the third book in the clergy at the moment, Hilary, but | :36:51. | :36:55. | |
this feels to me like a great tragedy suspended, the story of | :36:56. | :36:58. | |
Cromwell fighting his way up, the first part is about the destruction | :36:59. | :37:03. | |
of Wolsey and all around that, and then we get onto and billing and her | :37:04. | :37:08. | |
fall... We have another four years of Cromwell's rise and rise in the | :37:09. | :37:20. | |
third novel, and his abrupt fall. The experience of being here, | :37:21. | :37:24. | |
working with Ben, working with the rest of the company, has been | :37:25. | :37:29. | |
extremely productive for my third book. Are you writing it | :37:30. | :37:32. | |
differently, having seen the first two books on the stage? Oh, yes, | :37:33. | :37:37. | |
yes, indeed. I think this is a unique process. Normally, with a | :37:38. | :37:41. | |
literary adaptation, the book is closed, it is done. This is a work | :37:42. | :37:48. | |
in progress. So, I was prone to try the patience of the company by | :37:49. | :37:51. | |
coming in during rehearsals with a new page. Here is one I wrote this | :37:52. | :37:56. | |
morning! We would run towards you to take it and learn it, because it was | :37:57. | :38:00. | |
such a beautifully written piece of drama. We are in the middle of a | :38:01. | :38:04. | |
great debate at the moment about the teaching of English history. I am | :38:05. | :38:09. | |
wondering how you react to the criticisms of Michael Gove regarding | :38:10. | :38:12. | |
the, ties a share of history, not so much lack adequate but other | :38:13. | :38:17. | |
dramatisations? What you think about this as a way of teaching people via | :38:18. | :38:21. | |
drama? The important thing is to know that there is no one version | :38:22. | :38:30. | |
that is completely right, no single version which holds sway. Everything | :38:31. | :38:33. | |
needs to be questioned, to be reconsidered. All sources are | :38:34. | :38:42. | |
suspect. When somebody presents you with a historical fact, the thing | :38:43. | :38:46. | |
you must ask is, who is telling me this, and why do they want me to | :38:47. | :38:50. | |
believe it? Or journalistic questions, actually. Indeed. If | :38:51. | :38:57. | |
performed with integrity, then dramatisation, fiction, is actually | :38:58. | :39:00. | |
helpful in stimulating that spirit of inquiry. Because the novelist, if | :39:01. | :39:07. | |
you are doing this properly, you are saying to the reader, hey, what | :39:08. | :39:13. | |
would you do? That is the question we are asking all along about | :39:14. | :39:18. | |
Cromwell. It is a great T-shirt logo, what would Thomas Cromwell do? | :39:19. | :39:28. | |
After a sell-out run, both plays are transferring to London in May. | :39:29. | :39:33. | |
Public booking for them opens tomorrow morning. Now, the situation | :39:34. | :39:36. | |
in Ukraine remains tense. There are demonstrations planned across the | :39:37. | :39:39. | |
country today, including a mass rally in Kiev. Last night, the | :39:40. | :39:46. | |
American Secretary of State, John Kerry, warned that the space for | :39:47. | :39:50. | |
diplomacy is coming to a close. I'm joined now by the Foreign Secretary, | :39:51. | :39:56. | |
William Hague. The truth of the matter is that Russia has won, | :39:57. | :39:59. | |
Russia has the Crimea, and that is not going to change. Well, of | :40:00. | :40:05. | |
course, we want to see progress on this. That is why John Kerry and I | :40:06. | :40:09. | |
met Sergei Lavrov, the Russian foreign minister, in Paris on | :40:10. | :40:12. | |
Wednesday. But I think it would be wrong to conclude that Russia has | :40:13. | :40:15. | |
won, in some sense. I think this will turn out in time to be quite a | :40:16. | :40:22. | |
big miss calculation. But Russia has won in the sense that they are going | :40:23. | :40:25. | |
to keep the Crimea, at least, and there is nothing that we are going | :40:26. | :40:30. | |
to say or do that will change that. That is clearly their intention. We | :40:31. | :40:35. | |
want to see Russians and Ukrainians come in to negotiations with each | :40:36. | :40:38. | |
other. We should not prejudge the outcome of that, but clearly that is | :40:39. | :40:42. | |
what Russia is intending to do. They have brought forward the holding of | :40:43. | :40:46. | |
a referendum for one week today in Crimea, ridiculously quickly. The | :40:47. | :40:50. | |
world will not be able to regard that as a free or fair referendum. | :40:51. | :40:54. | |
But they do not care, do they, Foreign Secretary? President | :40:55. | :41:00. | |
Putin's spokesman last night literally laughed with derision when | :41:01. | :41:04. | |
it was mentioned about further negotiations. We have no real hold | :41:05. | :41:07. | |
over them, that is the truth, isn't it? We will see. I think they do | :41:08. | :41:11. | |
care about the international reaction about what they have done. | :41:12. | :41:16. | |
That reaction is very strong. The European Union has set out a | :41:17. | :41:19. | |
graduated series of measures. With respect, it is not strong. The point | :41:20. | :41:24. | |
I was doing to make is, the long-term consequences will be very | :41:25. | :41:27. | |
significant for Russia. I think they will be inadvertent and unintended | :41:28. | :41:32. | |
consequences. From everything that I saw in Kiev, when I was there on | :41:33. | :41:35. | |
Monday, people from across the political spectrum, including the | :41:36. | :41:40. | |
people from the East, who mostly identify with Russia, are strongly | :41:41. | :41:43. | |
against Russian intervention in their country. It will affect | :41:44. | :41:47. | |
attitudes towards Russia very seriously over the long-term. | :41:48. | :41:50. | |
Secondly, I think European nations, as you have discussing with Ed | :41:51. | :41:55. | |
Davey, will be recasting their approach to energy and their | :41:56. | :41:57. | |
economic links with Russia over time. Those are things which over | :41:58. | :42:04. | |
time will mean that this has been a serious miss calculation at a book | :42:05. | :42:07. | |
so far, in concrete terms, we have just talked about things like bans | :42:08. | :42:11. | |
on visas. What about things like kicking Russia out of the G8, is | :42:12. | :42:16. | |
that possible? We have already suspended the preparations for the | :42:17. | :42:19. | |
G8 summit, which is due to be held in Russia in June. We have stopped | :42:20. | :42:23. | |
the meetings leading up to that. Clearly, one of the options, if | :42:24. | :42:27. | |
there is no diplomatic progress, is to cancel that altogether. Indeed, | :42:28. | :42:32. | |
the G7 would be free to meet on their own. And that could happen? | :42:33. | :42:38. | |
These are things which would none of the measures that we can propose | :42:39. | :42:43. | |
remove Russian forces from the Crimea. Nobody is proposing a | :42:44. | :42:46. | |
military conflict between the West and Russia. But some of the | :42:47. | :42:51. | |
diplomatic and other costs to rush of this are serious. And they need | :42:52. | :42:56. | |
to be taken seriously in Moscow. Could we not simple leak cancel the | :42:57. | :43:03. | |
gas contract is, the oil contracts which or is that too much of a | :43:04. | :43:06. | |
disruption to western Europe? That would vary one country to another. | :43:07. | :43:11. | |
In the case of the UK, we only by about 1% of our gas from Russia. For | :43:12. | :43:15. | |
other countries, it is up to a third or more. They are clearly not in a | :43:16. | :43:21. | |
position just to say, we will do without that gas. But I think over | :43:22. | :43:26. | |
time, and Ed Davey was talking about the need for diversification, one of | :43:27. | :43:30. | |
the consequences of Russia's action will be that this will change. It | :43:31. | :43:35. | |
feels like you have a certain number of rather small sticks available to | :43:36. | :43:38. | |
you. There is no question of military action of any kind, I take | :43:39. | :43:46. | |
it. That's right. So what are the sticks you have got? We have already | :43:47. | :43:49. | |
suspended talks on VISA liberalisation, we have suspended | :43:50. | :43:54. | |
talks on a new agreement... I am sorry, but hoops of derision from | :43:55. | :44:00. | |
the Kremlin at that level of measure. Well, as I was saying, none | :44:01. | :44:06. | |
of these things force a withdrawal from Crimea. But they will raise the | :44:07. | :44:11. | |
cost to Russia. The next step does involve travel bans and as it | :44:12. | :44:18. | |
freezes on individuals, and that will be taken very seriously by the | :44:19. | :44:24. | |
individuals concerned. Have we got guts to do that in London? That | :44:25. | :44:32. | |
unfortunately exposed piece of paper seemed to suggest that we are not | :44:33. | :44:35. | |
going to stop Russians coming here, we are not prepared to be tough with | :44:36. | :44:39. | |
Russians in London? We are one of the countries which has been | :44:40. | :44:42. | |
advocating a strong response within the European Union. The Prime | :44:43. | :44:46. | |
Minister led the way on that at the council in Brussels last week. There | :44:47. | :44:51. | |
is no measure which the United Kingdom has blocked on this. Britain | :44:52. | :44:56. | |
is a country which has strong laws against money-laundering, very clear | :44:57. | :45:02. | |
about corruption. The idea that Britain is going to block anything | :45:03. | :45:05. | |
that Europe might agree to, that would be totally mistaken. Nobody in | :45:06. | :45:10. | |
Russia should rely on that, and nobody should think that we would do | :45:11. | :45:16. | |
that. So, what are we going to do about Putin-supporting, super-rich | :45:17. | :45:19. | |
Russians in London, buying property here, educating their children here, | :45:20. | :45:32. | |
coming and going as they please? There are people in London from all | :45:33. | :45:36. | |
over the world, and if they are here legally they can be easier. I have | :45:37. | :45:45. | |
just been setting out things we will change and that includes those | :45:46. | :45:50. | |
responsible... What are we going to change? That depends on the | :45:51. | :45:56. | |
individual. We are not going to say that a Russian who is here entirely | :45:57. | :46:01. | |
legally cannot come to London, of course we are not going to say that, | :46:02. | :46:08. | |
but the consequences, the economic, trade and financial consequences, as | :46:09. | :46:13. | |
again set out on Thursday, of Russia continuing to make the situation | :46:14. | :46:18. | |
worse would be far reaching in the words of the European Council. That | :46:19. | :46:24. | |
has to be taken seriously. Yes, people can say none of those things | :46:25. | :46:28. | |
bring about any immediate resolution, and we are trying every | :46:29. | :46:34. | |
diplomatic effort to do so, but they are rising cost to Russia, behaving | :46:35. | :46:40. | |
in this way, and it is right that we do that because it is in our | :46:41. | :46:44. | |
national interest that international treaties are upheld and it has been | :46:45. | :46:51. | |
violated by the actions of Russia. President Putin says there are no | :46:52. | :46:58. | |
Russian troops in Crimea, is he lying? There clearly are Russian | :46:59. | :47:02. | |
troops in Crimea, people with Russian equipment. All of the | :47:03. | :47:08. | |
evidence is that they are, there is no plausible explanation of where | :47:09. | :47:15. | |
else they may have come from. So President Putin is trying to deceive | :47:16. | :47:20. | |
the world on this. There is nothing that we are saying or doing that | :47:21. | :47:24. | |
will make them leave, so to that limited extent at least for the time | :47:25. | :47:29. | |
being, the Russians have got what they want. They have taken | :47:30. | :47:33. | |
possession of Crimea but I would argue it would be in the interests | :47:34. | :47:39. | |
of Russia, faced with these short-term and long-term | :47:40. | :47:43. | |
consequences of this action, to enter into a diplomatic process with | :47:44. | :47:47. | |
Ukraine. This is what John Kerry is trying to bring about with the | :47:48. | :47:51. | |
support of countries like the UK, I will be talking to him later about | :47:52. | :47:56. | |
the next steps. By the way John Kerry is not saying he wants to | :47:57. | :48:02. | |
close down diplomatic space, he is saying Russia's actions in going | :48:03. | :48:07. | |
ahead with such a rushed referendum, preventing the monitors getting into | :48:08. | :48:15. | |
Crimea, those things are closing down the diplomatic space. But that | :48:16. | :48:19. | |
referendum is going to take place presumably, and if it says, yes, we | :48:20. | :48:24. | |
want to be part of Russia, that will happen. There seems to be a tacit | :48:25. | :48:29. | |
acceptance that the Russians will keep Crimea, and as long as they | :48:30. | :48:34. | |
don't push into mainland Ukraine we will shake our heads and walk away | :48:35. | :48:41. | |
in the end. I don't think there is a tacit acceptance. Some of the | :48:42. | :48:44. | |
consequences we were talking about will follow if that happens. | :48:45. | :48:53. | |
Certainly those long-term things I talked about will happen. This is | :48:54. | :48:56. | |
the creation of another frozen conflict in Europe, like we have | :48:57. | :49:06. | |
seen in Georgia and Moldova. Is it clear in Shakespeare who said, I | :49:07. | :49:13. | |
shall do such terrible things... It sounds like that. There will be | :49:14. | :49:17. | |
terrible consequences, we don't know what they will be but there will be | :49:18. | :49:23. | |
terrible consequences. I have just explained what some of them will be, | :49:24. | :49:27. | |
and there is a danger for Russia that they have made a | :49:28. | :49:33. | |
miscalculation. Their plan was clearly adopted at short notice, | :49:34. | :49:38. | |
they hadn't expected the former president Yanukovych to leave the | :49:39. | :49:48. | |
country. It will turn out that this is a miscalculation because the | :49:49. | :49:53. | |
long-term effect will be to unite Ukraine more against Russian | :49:54. | :49:59. | |
domination and to recast European policies in a way that will reduce | :50:00. | :50:04. | |
Russian Loveridge over Europe. Last time we spoke I talked about the | :50:05. | :50:09. | |
Russian tanks going in, they were armoured personnel carriers, but | :50:10. | :50:14. | |
what if the Russian tanks go into mainland Ukraine? Is there anything | :50:15. | :50:19. | |
the west can do to stop it happening? Anything that widens | :50:20. | :50:24. | |
still further this conflict and creates even greater dangers, that | :50:25. | :50:30. | |
would bring for Europe those far reaching consequences that the | :50:31. | :50:35. | |
European Council has talked about, and the United States would also | :50:36. | :50:38. | |
take extremely strong measures, and it is clear that everything we have | :50:39. | :50:43. | |
seen from the Ukraine in recent days, there isn't popular support | :50:44. | :50:49. | |
for any such Russian intervention. If the EU countries were going to be | :50:50. | :50:53. | |
really tough with Russians and cut off the oil and gas contracts, they | :50:54. | :50:59. | |
would need to get that coming in particularly from America, and there | :51:00. | :51:03. | |
needs to be new talks about energy supplies. Are those talks starting? | :51:04. | :51:10. | |
It is now beginning to be discussed. So you are talking to John Kerry and | :51:11. | :51:16. | |
President Obama about this? Yes, there is an increased case for that. | :51:17. | :51:24. | |
In December I was at the inauguration of a new pipeline that | :51:25. | :51:27. | |
might take several years to construct, from the Caspian Sea into | :51:28. | :51:32. | |
southern Europe, bringing gas supplies that do not pass through | :51:33. | :51:37. | |
Russia. The case for such developments will increase now. So | :51:38. | :51:42. | |
Europe will work hard and fast to limits and it -- limit its | :51:43. | :51:48. | |
independence on Russia in the future? We will be leading the way | :51:49. | :51:54. | |
in advocating that, if we don't make any progress. In the coming days we | :51:55. | :52:00. | |
will be using every diplomatic channels to reduce these tensions, | :52:01. | :52:05. | |
to reduce the danger of provocation or a sudden flash point creating an | :52:06. | :52:11. | |
even worse situation. If none of that succeeds, many of the other | :52:12. | :52:19. | |
consequences will follow. Now, the news headlines. The Foreign | :52:20. | :52:19. | |
Secretary has does -- described the news headlines. The Foreign | :52:20. | :52:28. | |
Russian intervention in Ukraine is a serious miscalculation. He said | :52:29. | :52:29. | |
other countries would recast their relationships with Russia. William | :52:30. | :52:35. | |
Hague said there would be rising costs if Russia made the situation | :52:36. | :52:39. | |
worse. Pro-and anti-Russian demonstrations are due to take place | :52:40. | :52:43. | |
across the Ukraine today. President Obama has warned Russia that any | :52:44. | :52:48. | |
attempts to annex the Crimean region would close the door to diplomacy. | :52:49. | :52:52. | |
Search teams are trying to establish what happened to Malaysia Airlines | :52:53. | :52:57. | |
passenger plane that disappeared over the South China Sea. Radar | :52:58. | :53:09. | |
signals show the plane may have turned back shortly before it | :53:10. | :53:11. | |
vanished. Vietnamese planes have spotted oil slicks in the seat but | :53:12. | :53:22. | |
no wreckage has been found. Malaysian officials say they are now | :53:23. | :53:25. | |
investigating the identities of two passengers who were flying on stolen | :53:26. | :53:26. | |
passports. That's all from me. The next news on | :53:27. | :53:31. | |
BBC One is at one o'clock. Back to Andrew in a moment. First, a look at | :53:32. | :53:34. | |
what's coming up immediately after this programme. Join us when we will | :53:35. | :53:37. | |
be talking about our moral obligation to Ukraine, and we will | :53:38. | :53:40. | |
be talking about children brought up by fundamentalists - can they be | :53:41. | :53:46. | |
damaged? The Foreign Secretary is still with | :53:47. | :53:50. | |
us, and we're joined once more by Gavin Hewitt, the BBC's Europe | :53:51. | :53:53. | |
Editor. Now, these are good times for powerfully-voiced, female | :53:54. | :53:56. | |
singer-songwriters. One of the most original talents to emerge in the | :53:57. | :53:59. | |
past few years is Paloma Faith, known for her flamboyant costumes | :54:00. | :54:02. | |
and highly stylised videos and stage shows. Her first two albums were | :54:03. | :54:05. | |
hugely successful, with platinum sales. She's about to release her | :54:06. | :54:09. | |
third, and we'll hear a track from it in a moment. Paloma, tell us a | :54:10. | :54:20. | |
little bit about this album. I decided to stop complaining about | :54:21. | :54:24. | |
melancholy and emotional heartbreak, and think, it is going to happen so | :54:25. | :54:33. | |
I may as well dance about it. Something more upbeat? Yes, I | :54:34. | :54:38. | |
decided to release something new, it is called A Perfect Contradiction. | :54:39. | :54:46. | |
Gavin, what did you make of the lack of armoury, it seems to many people, | :54:47. | :54:54. | |
in the west? There is one scenario that might create extra difficulties | :54:55. | :55:00. | |
for the west and the UK. If Russia were to push into mainland Ukraine, | :55:01. | :55:04. | |
from having been there in the last few weeks, I'm convinced that some | :55:05. | :55:08. | |
Ukrainians would be provoked into retaliating. At that moment, we | :55:09. | :55:16. | |
would have conflict at the heart of Europe. In those circumstances, | :55:17. | :55:20. | |
would you reply as you have just done that there is essentially | :55:21. | :55:24. | |
nothing we can do, certainly on a military level, or is that the | :55:25. | :55:29. | |
moment then you would consider having trade sanctions? I just said | :55:30. | :55:35. | |
in my answer to Andrew about that, there would be far reaching trade | :55:36. | :55:41. | |
and economic consequences of any such thing. Certainly that would | :55:42. | :55:48. | |
bring about those consequences, and it would bring a great danger of a | :55:49. | :55:57. | |
real shooting conflict. Ukrainian army is comparatively speaking tiny | :55:58. | :56:01. | |
compared to the Russian forces, so would weep at that point to say to | :56:02. | :56:08. | |
the Ukrainians, don't fight. We have commended their restraint so far. It | :56:09. | :56:12. | |
is not really possible to go through different scenarios with the | :56:13. | :56:16. | |
Ukrainians and say, in these circumstances you shoot, in these, | :56:17. | :56:21. | |
you don't. They have not risen to any provocation from Russia so we | :56:22. | :56:24. | |
have to concentrate on putting out that message. Thank you, both. | :56:25. | :56:32. | |
That's all we have time for today. Next week, I'll be talking to the | :56:33. | :56:35. | |
Chancellor George Osborne and his Labour shadow, Ed Balls, ahead of | :56:36. | :56:40. | |
the Budget. Plus Scotland's First Minister, Alex Salmond. But we leave | :56:41. | :56:43. | |
you now with Paloma Faith, and her new song, Can't Rely On You. | :56:44. | :56:45. | |
Goodbye. # How would you gon' do, no this way | :56:46. | :57:04. | |
# I work so hard for you every day # While you out, late night # Girl, | :57:05. | :57:17. | |
what you do? # Chillin' with who? # While I'm sitting at home # Come on | :57:18. | :57:24. | |
with it! # I don't know what this world is | :57:25. | :57:28. | |
coming to. # I just can't rely on you # I just | :57:29. | :57:33. | |
can't rely on you # Yeah, you got that good stuff but that don't last | :57:34. | :57:37. | |
# So I just can't rely on you # Just can't rely on you # Oh, Lord # How | :57:38. | :57:50. | |
am I to ever explain? # I'm a melted heart, went right | :57:51. | :57:54. | |
down the drain # Cos if you don't want me # Come on with it! | :57:55. | :58:10. | |
# I don't know what this world is coming to. | :58:11. | :58:17. | |
# I just can't rely on you # I just can't rely on you # Yeah, you got | :58:18. | :58:21. | |
that good stuff but that don't last # So I just can't rely on you # Just | :58:22. | :58:41. | |
can't rely on you # Time to go # Really # You can say what you want # | :58:42. | :58:46. | |
But I'm out that door # Can't stop me # Oh, my man # Oh, Lord # I just | :58:47. | :58:55. | |
can't rely on you # I just can't rely on you # Yeah, you got that | :58:56. | :59:00. | |
good stuff but that don't last # So I just can't rely on you # Just | :59:01. | :59:03. |