23/03/2014 The Andrew Marr Show

Good morning. A great American President, Theodore Roosevelt,

counselled his fellow leaders to speak softly and carry a big stick.

Wise words indeed, but current Western leaders, responding to

Russia's annexation of the Crimea, are taking a somewhat different

approach. Our version seems to be, scream at the top of your voice and

carry a twig. Martin Sixsmith reported from Russia for the BBC for

many years. He's reviewing the papers for us this morning,

alongside the Daily Mail's, Amanda Platell. In Crimea, the first

soldier has been shot and killed. Russian soldiers battered their way

into two military bases last night where Ukrainian soldiers were

holding out and many in Ukraine fear that a wider Russian land grab is

next. So, how should the West respond? I've been speaking to two

figures at the centre of this increasingly dangerous looking

standoff. The Russian ambassador to the European Union, Vladimir

Chizhov, and to the man who's the former presidential candidate,

senator John McCain. I would send a small delegation of our military to

Kiev. Goodness! It's always said that you shouldn't judge a Budget

until the dust has had time to settle. George Osborne was warmly

applauded last week for helping savers and putting Labour on the

back foot. But the respected IFS now says his sums don't quite add up,

while the Pension Ministers quip that pensioners could use their new

freedom to buy Lamborghinis has outraged financial advisers. George

Osborne's number two, Danny Alexander, is with me. Does he wince

at the mention of Lamborghinis? And, after a tough week for Labour, its

business spokesman, Chuka Umunna, is here too. With fine music this

morning from the rich baritone voice of Gregory Porter.

It is a busy morning, a lovely morning. First, as always, the news

from Naga Munchetty. Good morning. The Australian Prime Minister, Tony

Abbott, says satellite images are giving increasing hope of

discovering what happened to the Malaysian passenger jet, which

disappeared more than two weeks ago. Planes from China have joined the

search in the southern Indian Ocean today. Aircraft on the scene have

been investigating a possible sighting of debris in the water. Our

Sydney correspondent, Phil Mercer, reports. These are some of the world

's most remote seas. Are they about to give us some tangible clues? The

satellite pictures show us a large object in the Indian Ocean, close to

where other unidentified fragments were seen. The Australian Prime

Minister said it was a significant development although he is urging

caution. We have had a number of very credible leads. There is

increasing hope, no more than hope. No more than hope that we might be

on the road to discovering what did happen to this ill-fated aircraft.

This is the fourth day in the exhaustive search of the wild and

unpredictable seas of the southern Indian Ocean. Chinese and Japanese

planes are joining the surveillance mission, based in Perth. A crucial

part of the growing international effort is the view from space and

the satellites which have provided the images which could help to solve

this battling and distressing case. More international help is on its

way. Several Chinese ships are steaming towards the icy waters of

the southern Indian Ocean. The hunt for the missing Malaysian airline

enters a third week. Here, a teenage girl has been shot dead in Hackney

in East London. The Metropolitan Police believe the girl was 15 years

old. Three young men have been arrested. The Foreign Secretary,

William Hague, says lasting restrictions on arms sales and

military co-operation with Russia should now be considered. Mr Hague's

comments come after Russia tightened its grip on Crimea by storming

military bases, where Ukrainian soldiers have been holed up for

nearly a month. There's a warning that GP services are under severe

threat of extinction because of increasing demand for care and

dwindling budgets. The president of the Royal College of GPs, Dr Maureen

Baker, says general practice is imploding faster than people realise

and she has urged governments in London, Cardiff, Edinburgh and

Belfast to improve funding. A spokesman for the Department of

Health in England says action is being taken to encourage more people

to train as family doctors. Nearly 90% of people who have bought a

house through the Government's Help To Buy scheme since it launched last

year are first time buyers. More than 17,000 homes have been

purchased, mostly outside the property hotspots of London and the

South East. The scheme lends buyers their deposit or provides a mortgage

guarantee, with the aim of getting people onto the property ladder. But

Labour says it's creating a housing bubble by driving up prices. That's

all from me for now. I'll be back with the headlines just before 10am.

Back to you, Andrew. Thank you, Naga. Now to the papers. The Sunday

Times has a big poll showing the Tories are neck and neck with

Labour. The knives come out for Ed Miliband. Also pictures of the

Russians bursting into the airbase. Too many of us are going to the

doctor and the doctor is getting too tired and it is all going down the

pan. The Sunday Telegraph has a very interesting story, saying that

Islamic law will be adopted in British legal circles. That is from

the Law Society and this is about Islamic or sharia pensions, well,

not pensions. Anyway, it means it is bad for women. In Scotland, there is

a poll showing the yes campaign jumping ahead again. The Scottish

National Minister is backing a vote to axe the Queen. Not literally, I

hasten to add. I turn now to Amanda and Martin Sixsmith, author of the

book that the extremely successful film Philomena was based on, and a

Russian expert, having been the BBC's man in Moscow for many years.

Crimea, clearly, is the story in the news. I am very pleased to see our

former ambassador writing in the Independent this morning and putting

a slightly, a bit of a state, on some of the overheated rhetoric we

have been getting from the West. He does point out that, of course, what

Russia has done is wrong in Crimea but he does also point out that a

lot of what Vladimir Putin is saying is correct. Crimea is historically,

linguistically and culturally, a part of Russia. It was only given to

Ukraine almost by mistake and the vast majority of people do want to

be part of Russia. Does Crimea feel rushing to you? It does. I have been

there a few times and it is hard to find Ukrainian speakers there. If

there is a minority which has a beef, it is almost more than the

Ukrainians dashed the Crimean Tartars who were expelled by Stalin

and have come back. The vast majority would decry the results of

this referendum that was held last weekend. A lot of people voted,

didn't they? There is an overwhelming majority that do want

to be part of Russia. They are getting something like 79% approval.

David Cameron would bite his arm off to get that. William Hague has

written a piece today. It is that kind of rhetoric. Unprecedented

sanctions on Russia this week are going to be announced. An outrageous

land grab. As far as people like me can see, all they seem to have done

is put a shopping ban on the whys of Putin 's oligarch friends, so they

cannot buy handbags in Oxford Street. I do not know if there is a

hidden agenda. A lot of people fear it is the beginning of a grand plan

and the Russians will take over Moldova, East Ukraine, etc. There is

no desire in this country to see our troops boots on foreign grounds

fighting wars. Absolutely none. All the polls show that. They would be

idiotic to get involved. The collapse of the Soviet Union has

left all these problems. The eastern part of Ukraine is, like Crimea,

full of Russians and looking towards Moscow. Let's turn to the other huge

story of the day which remains mysterious, despite Tony Abbott

telling us we are getting information at last from the Indian

Ocean. He has been guarded and I think he loves being on

international television. There is a piece in the Sunday Times, it

basically says, everyday there is a new line. In this one, they say they

have seized the bank accounts of all of the crew of the plane, to see if

any of them are in financial problems. We have 25 aircraft, 22

ships, six helicopters, and all they have been able to find our a couple

of bits of something, which could be anything. Absolutely astounding. We

are a bit in danger of turning this into an adventure story. We are

forgetting there are 239 people on board. What strikes me is the fact

that a plane can simply disappear. You could do that in Victorian times

but it struck me strange that you can still do that in the

21st-century. They can find out your and my number plate from almost

anywhere in the world but we cannot seem to find this huge plane. There

is another good tip in the Mail on Sunday. They are leading on a

mystery phone call from a woman to the pilot. It was used obtaining a

mobile phone under a false identity. You can get hacking into everything,

can't you? Everyone was taken aback by George Osborne 's budget. There

has been knighted, especially from the Labour Party, that there is a

deserving poor who are being treated really badly. That is the despicable

witch who we all want to be horrible to. Then there is the forgotten

middle classes. You tell me they are not decent and hard-working. This is

a budget for them. Very attentive viewers will notice you have a

Conservative instinct. You have not in the past been hugely enthusiastic

about George Osborne. I have been very critical of him. I thought he

was completely out of his depth at the beginning and has said so on

many occasions. It was an incredibly clever and considered budget. What

is his reward? His reward are the polls. In the Mail on Sunday,

Cameron is on 42 and Ed Miliband is on 38. Referring to your Lamborghini

question earlier, they actually asked this and said, Ed Balls

suggested people would miss use it and ran at a pension funds? 50% back

the Lamborghini. A British made car would be fine. It was a little

guarded but it shows that people want to be trusted with their own

money and the Conservatives are saying they believe they can spend

their own money better than the state can. I like the poster after

the budget highlighting it is cheaper to drink beer and to play

bingo. I was at the launch of the well-being report where Cameron is

factoring happiness in manufacturing policies. Actually this was still be

done because gambling together is much better than gambling on the

internet or gambling with a slot machine. You have chosen another big

poll. I mentioned it at the beginning. In the Scotland on

Sunday, it says after a fusillade of Unionist arguments, the yes vote is

growing. This is interesting in the context of Crimea. We will have a

referendum on national self-determination. In Scotland it

is being done in a more considered and aboveboard way. The figures here

are moving very much towards a very tight race. We have assumed the yes

campaign was going to lose out in a big way. The latest poll shows it is

neck and neck. Is there an explanation? In Scotland, you either

vote with your heart or your head. The vehemence of the no campaign,

with big industry and people from London saying you should vote

against independence, as had that emotional effect. If they are

telling us what to do, we will not do it. I am sure that is true. It is

like the little guy being beaten up. All the languages so emotional and

so playing into any psyche of a smaller country. I'm Todd when Putin

was phoning Cameron about the Crimea, is that a lot of time

saying, it is just like Scotland, it is just like Scotland. Cameron

said, no, it is not. In the old days, when Russia was taken to task

by the West or Britain, Northern Ireland was the case that was always

pointed out. There are parallels, two nations with common, historical,

cultural and linguistic roots upping up against each other. Sign up or

the political process was longer than about ten days. -- the

political process. Thrown across like a sack of

potatoes, it has been said. The internal borders didn't really

matter. I think this story is very concerning, in the Sunday Telegraph

about Islamic laws. It will be enshrined in the British legal

system for the first time. Is it like inheritance tax? It is making

wills, and what it means in this very traditional part of the

religion, basically if you are child born out of wedlock you don't count,

if you are an adopted child you don't count. If you want to write

your wife out of your will, you can't. That goes against all British

law, you just cannot do that. A lot of people want to write their other

half out, their last final act of revenge! That would be terrible but

I am slightly bemused because I thought when you were making a will

under any form of law, you can choose who you leave your assets to.

You obviously haven't made a world recently, I have and it is very

difficult not to give it to your existing spouse. We will have to see

what happens but it is a good story anyway. Martin, there is a Vatican

story. It is about the Pope appointing a commission on abuse,

and it is significant because I think it is a move under the new

Pope towards recognising some things that went wrong in the past. It has

been a sort of Stonewall up until now and it is interesting to see an

Irish abuse victim has been appointed, which is interesting to

me because I am writing a documentary. And you wrote the books

behind the film Philomena. Yes, and Philomena went to Rome, shocked the

Pope's hand. Interestingly the DVD is out tomorrow so he could get a

copy of it. Was there an apology? No, but the fact it is being looked

at is interesting. The film is about many other Philomenas, and many of

the stories have been horrific involving physical and sexual abuse

and I am relieved to see Pope Francis taking this forward. Who

does seem to be a genuine reform. We will have to see if he walks the

walk. This Jim Docherty story about sound bites. That was yours. Sound

bites in political interviews are getting shorter and shorter, and the

other day I watched an interview with Mick Jagger in the 1960s and I

thought it was tremendously could have that length of debate. Now we

get 32nd sound bites. Including on paper reviews, we are running out of

time. Amanda. This is a heart-warming story about a couple

who met at a bus stop, they didn't know each other, they got chatting,

missed their boss, went and had fish and chips and got married. The moral

is, if you are single like me, catch the bus more often. On that cheerful

note, thank you very much indeed. Onto the weather. Cold overnight,

but I think the most beautiful morning today we've had on a Sunday

all year so far. So what is next? Nick Miller is here to give us good

news, and bad. If you are glass half full kind of person, you will see

the sunshine, if you are glass half empty, you will see the rain. There

will be some heavy downpours, may be some heavy downpours, maybe the

rumble of thunder. The showers will become mostly confined to eastern

parts of England and the Midlands, where of that there will be fewer

showers in the afternoon and blue sky. The showers in Scotland will

begin to ease, but by this stage it will be mainly dry, Manchester and

Cardiff as well, and the south-west of England. We will still be dodging

the showers to the east and south-east of England, as we will

for a time through the course of the night. The winds will ease across

the UK, clear skies are a recipe for a cold night as well, with a

widespread frost going into Monday morning. During Monday, rain comes

into western parts of the UK and we will hold onto some hazy sunshine

further east. There is a chilly easterly wind developing so those

wanting spring warmth will have to wait a little bit longer yet.

With just over a year until the General Election, today's poll

results don't make good reading for Labour. The Tories are now

comfortably ahead of the Labour Party on economic competence.

Confidence in the economy is now returning, and two polls in this

morning's papers indicate that the Budget has given the Tories a

significant boost. So, how will Labour fight back? With me is the

Shadow Business Secretary, Chuka Umunna. These are pretty terrible

polls for you and they reflect what seems to be a hesitance on the

Labour response to the Budget. It looked like you didn't know what you

wanted to say about the Budget. I couldn't disappear more, the polls

fluctuate and if we obsessed with them we wouldn't be doing our jobs

properly. What matters is how people vote and we have seen under this

leadership the Labour Party put on over 1000 councillors. We have put

on tens of thousands of new members since May 2010, and let's not forget

what people were saying in 2010, they were writing the party off.

They said we were going to have many more terms in opposition, now people

are talking seriously about us winning in the general election. Are

you feeling relaxed about this morning's polls? We are interested

in the issues that matter to people. There was a huge amount of

speculation there was going to be a rabbit pulled out of the hat in the

Budget, there was no rabbit. There was nothing here about how the

Government was going to help people and child care , nothing on how they

will relieve the squeeze on energy prices. The big news was the freedom

to use pensions how you wanted in a lump sum. Initially the Labour Party

didn't have anything to say on that but now you are in favour, is that

correct? The principle of giving people more control over their

pension pot is something we support. We are still looking at the detail,

and we have three tests we apply. It has to pass the fairness test, does

it provide a range of products for lower and middle income earners that

gives them certainty in retirement? The advice test, will they have

access to high quality financial advice when they are making these

decisions? And cost test, can we be sure this won't lead to more cost

for the taxpayer in the long term? If I asked Danny Alexander these

questions and he says yes, you will vote for this? We need to see the

Bill and I am not going to sign a blank piece of paper on your show.

That might be fun! We will see what Danny Alexander says. They have been

trying to frame themselves as the workers' party but there was very

little about work. We have more than 900,000 young people out of work. We

have a bigger issue... How many firms have signed up to your policy

on that? We are not in government yet, but there is a bigger issue

here as well because any job is better than no job. We are clear on

our ambition, we want people to have good, secure, meaningful work that

pays a wage you can live off. There was nothing in the Budget how they

will incentivise firms to pay a living wage. One in five people in

this country is in a low-wage, low skill jobs. We want people to have

secure work which is more high skilled and pays a wage people can

live off. Do you think you are not trusted on the economy, or trusted

less than the Conservatives? What has happened? As I said, you can

obsessed about the polls. I have seen the headline on the front of a

Conservative supporting paper, that is well and good. We have important

local elections this May, that is what matters. People will pass

judgement then and all I know is that when I talk to people in my own

constituency about the fact that we have young people long-term

unemployed at a higher rate than at the last general election, they want

to know what we are going to do about it and they talk to me about

the quality of work they are doing. This is a great country and we have

huge potential but we have got to unleash the talent of everybody. We

have to make sure there is more vocational training. You are the

shadow business secretary, your chances of becoming Business

Secretary depend partly on business coming round to Labour, at least a

bit. Business love the Budget and they are very critical of the Labour

Party, these new kinds of regulation. Is there anything new

you can offer the business community to win them round to the idea of

supporting the Labour Party again? I don't accept that. We have been

drawing up lots of our policies with business people. We have a phalanx

of business supporters, one example is Charles Allen, you will excuse me

for mentioning someone connected to the ITV! In terms of business

support, we want to get the support of businesses of all different

shapes and sizes in different parts of the country. You are going to tax

them or individually and as businesses, you will regulate them

more... The biggest uncertainty on the horizon for businesses is the

prospect of the UK exit from the EU. When Ed Miliband set out our

very clear priority to ensure we prioritise getting Europe to work

for better growth in our country, and he was very clear that we see

our future at the heart of the European Union, which is the best

way to get access to our biggest, nearest export market and the key

that unlocks the door to emerging markets, us staying is the priority

for many businesses and they support that. Would you like the Labour

Party to be seen as the pro-European party? I think we are, because only

the Labour Party can secure a sensible course forward on that. Ed

Miliband's announcement was welcomed by the CBI, and many other business

organisations. I'm not surprised because it is creating more

certainty for the economy. Thank you.

Last night, Russian troops in Crimea burst into two military bases where

Ukrainian troops were holed up, and forcibly evicted them. Although the

European Union and most other countries regard the Russian

decision to annex Crimea as illegal, on the ground it's happened. And the

fact that there are pockets of eastern Ukraine where the majority

of the population speak Russian, and would apparently prefer to be

governed from Moscow than from Kiev, makes many fear that further Russian

intervention lies ahead. I've been talking to Russia's ambassador to

the EU, Vladimir Chizhov. One big question - are those fears

justified? That is not Russia's intention. Our wish is to see the

brotherly country of Ukraine overcome this obstacle crisis and

constitutional crisis, perhaps through federalisation of a way out

to encompass the feelings of people living in various parts of the

country. We do not have any, I would say, expansionist views. If Russian

speakers in eastern Ukraine protest and say they are being oppressed,

and the government in Kiev says we will not have federalisation, what

happens then? Rusher will support those people with diplomatic and

political means. Only those? You have troops on the border at the

moment. We have troops in various places. Senator McCain has said

Moldova will be next, watch for Moldova, and what about Latvia?

Should I tell Senator McCain to watch over Alaska? They have Alaska

already. Well, it used to be ration. I am joking, of course. Seriously,

Moldova, Latvia, have been nothing to fear at all? Nobody has anything

to fear from Russia. What about the measures that have been agreed in

the EU? Are you concerned about measures against individual rations?

Will this cause consternation in Moscow? -- rations. I believe these

measures are irrational, to be politically correct. Of course, they

are politically motivated. There is more to come. There will be further

economic measures as well. We are not afraid. You have a lot of

dependence on selling gas to the European Union countries,

particularly Germany and Italy. That could be very serious for Russia,

couldn't it? It would be equally serious for those countries. We are

living in a 21st-century globalised economy. I think today, everybody is

everybody 's partner in this global world of ours. Could you give me a

very straightforward commitment that there will be no incursions of

Russian troops onto Ukrainian territory outside the Crimea? There

is no intention of the Russian Federation to do anything like that.

That is not quite a commitment. I am not the commander in chief. You are

not but you do speak from the Russian government. There is no

intention but you cannot completely rule it out? The situation in

Ukraine is, of course, a source of concern to everybody, including

Russia. We would certainly hope to see it settled by peaceful means,

taking into account the legitimate interests of all the people living

in Ukraine. All the ethnic groups, all the regions of Ukraine. And we

are ready to help. There are a lot of Ukrainian troops and other forces

in bases in the Crimea. Some people in Kiev regard them as hostages.

What will happen to them? They have three options, either to join the

Russian army, or to demobilise and stay in Ukraine as private

individuals. Or move to Ukraine and stay in Crimea as private

individuals, or remain in the Ukrainian army. For the latter

option, the Russian Minister of defence has given strict

instructions to ensure that they leave in order that they are

provided with transportation and their uniforms and insignia of fully

respected. So, they are not hostages. As for Crimea, is there

any chance whatsoever of Crimea not being part of Russia ball of the

conceivable future or having a further referendum on independence

or something like that? -- for the foreseeable future. It is an

expression of the overwhelming will of people living in Crimea. It was a

process of reunification with Russia, actually. Listening to that

interview with the Russian ambassador was the former

Presidential candidate, John McCain. He thinks the man who beat him to

the White House has been insufficiently robust, and he wasn't

impressed by Ambassador Chizhov. It was very pleasant to take a trip

down memory lane with the Russian ambassador and the Cold War rhetoric

and lies and distortions that characterised them at that time.

There were at least 20 things he said in that brief interview that

were absolutely false. In military assistance -- a military assistance

programme which we have is to help countries provide for self defence,

I think it is not only appropriate but very badly needed, as you

reported there are Russian troops massed on the border of Ukraine.

Blood amid Putin is making a decision as to whether to go in or

not. -- Vladimir Putin. If it is cost free, I think he is more likely

to intervene and so I see nothing wrong with providing both lethal and

non-lethal assistance to the Government of Ukraine, which has

just had its nation invaded and dismembered. Would you include the

promise that the Russians do not intend to go into Moldova, other

parts of the Ukraine, Latvia, other parts of the Baltics and so forth as

lies? We are already seeing agitations and statements made by

the Russian government and spokespersons about the need to

protect Russian speaking populations. I believe it was the

Polish Foreign Minister who said, nothing that they say can be taken

with any value whatsoever. You talk almost as if you see this as

parallel to the events of the late 1930s with referendums and constant

territorial aggrandisement, in that case, of course, by Germany. I see a

lot of parallels but I do not foresee a cataclysmic war. The

fundamental problem with our relations with Vladimir Putin is we

failed to appreciate he is a KGB criminal, who said the greatest

disaster of the 20th century was the break-up of the soviet union and he

wants to restore that Russian Empire. That is why I worry about

Moldova particularly. It is not a member of NATO and I worry about the

pressure on the Baltics which is already beginning. I think he is

calculating how much he can get away with, just as Adolf Hitler

calculated how much he could get away with back in 1930s. And yet

have seen more or less everything peaceful that can be done from the

EU and the American government. You have been very critical of President

Obama that we have seen lists of people put on blacklist in terms of

financial support. We have seen a hostility and the revision of all

sorts of trade agreements. What could be done realistically? I am

not sure how much will be done, particularly given the dependence of

Europeans on Russian energy. There will be a lot of hot air and very

little action, when you look in comparison with what the Russians

did in invading another sovereign nation. I would resume immediately

the missile defence system in Poland and Czechoslovakia. I would have

military exercises with our Baltic friends. I would send a small

delegation of our military to Kiev to talk about ways we can help them

rebuild their defences, particularly a defensive. I would, of course,

increase those sanctions. The Russians, basically, ridiculed what

we have done and I do not believe it is very impactful. It has impacted

on the stock market and the value of the rouble. I think, when you look

at the situation from the point of view of Vladimir Putin, it is a win

-win. I believe now Crimea is, at least in itself a captive nations. I

think that Moldova is under threat and I think as well as the Baltics,

Mr Putin is not like us. That is what we have to understand and it

does not mean Americans troops on the ground but it does mean a stead

fast and strong United front was epitomised by a phrase, peace

through strength. Do you think the West is being led by appeasers? I

would not use that word. I think it has been led by people, maybe not

necessarily now in the case of the British Prime Minister and the

Chancellor of the Federal Republic of Germany, but by certainly

President Obama that wants to push the reset button. We overheard a

conversation to Vladimir Putin, I will be more flexible. It was a

total misreading of the nature of blood amid Putin, his ambitions, and

what he was willing to do. -- Vladimir Putin. It is time for a

total re-evaluation. Do you think we will see Russian troops moving into

eastern Ukraine? I think he is making calculations right now. It is

not an accident, not just any military exercise, his troops are

massed on the border of southern and eastern Ukraine. It is a fact on the

ground. He is making his calculations and I cannot predict

this one. There is a lot of talk about asset seizures, particularly

from the Russian oligarchs and tycoons with people like Roman

Abramowitz. Do you think that is unnecessarily part of the response?

I think it needs to be economic and diplomatic. It is about helping

these countries to defend themselves. We need to convince

Vladimir Putin that the price of further aggression is not worth the

penalties he will pay. 11 people one day sanctions and then a few more

and a lot of talk, a lot of talk but very little action. I do not think

he has been very persuasive to Mr Putin. You have been blacklisted by

Mr Putin and you cannot travel to Russia. I had to cancel spring break

in Siberia. A lovely place! Gregory Porter has not -- has got quite a

following. He performed at the Cheltenham Jazz Festival in May, the

Love Supreme Festival in July, and a batch of other dates in between.

Raised in California by his Baptist Minister mother, he's been writing

songs and performing for 20 years but only released his first record a

couple of years ago. And, if you can become an overnight success after 20

years of trying, that's what's just happened. Welcome. You were actually

38 when you broke through. That was correct. It was a long time coming.

I probably had some living and some development to do personally in

order to write the songs I do and think the way I do. You were brought

up by your late mother, who was a Baptist Minister. Very much so. She

comes up into my thinking and writing all the time for that even

if I am writing a love song. Even without consciously thinking of

it, she comes into my mind. I have to ask you about one thing, the hat.

It is unique. It is even sticking in your mind already. If I can get in

with the hat and begin with the music... I have a whole wicked plan.

You can do that later on. I cannot wait to hear you live. Thank you for

coming onto the show. The Budget was generally welcomed by the press and,

it seems, in the opinion polls as well. But there are creeping doubts

on two big areas - first, is it all affordable and do the sums add up?

And second, are the radical new freedoms being given to pensioners

wise and do they help people at the bottom of the heap as well as at the

top? Danny Alexander, Chief Secretary to the Treasury, is George

Osborne's number two. And he is with me now. Thank you for coming in. On

the first point, the IFF was quite critical, perhaps surprisingly so,

given the immediate reaction to the budget. They say you on making

permanent, long-term tax giveaways on the threshold and so on which

cost nearly ?2 billion. And there is no permanent, long-term way of

paying for those blonde deeper cuts which are not specified. That is a

fair criticism, isn't it? I have been clear and George Osborne has

been clear that dealing with the deficit will take longer and there

will need to be more savings in the next Parliament. We took some

difficult decisions in this budget. We raised more money, for example,

clamping down on tax avoidance. In relation to public service pensions,

we said department should bear the cost of paying a public service

pensions rather than it falling at the next cost of the tax payer. What

it does is it stops the general taxpayer having to make up the cost

of public service pensions that employers should be bearing for

themselves. It is a difficult decision. There is more deficit

reduction to be done in the next Parliament. As a Liberal Democrat, I

am committed to making sure we deal with the structural deficit on the

timetable which has been set out. Where I disagree with the

Conservatives, I think tax measures should play a part in that. The

wealthiest must make a contribution as well as public sector. With the

mansion tax, is that the red line for the Liberal Democrats next time

around? George Osborne has made it clear his absolute opposition. One

of the big things that will be a big priority for the Liberal Democrats

is a fairer tax system, delivering further tax cuts for working people.

A big Liberal Democrat 's signature tune in this year 's it was lifting

the personal allowance of ?10,500 but also asking the wealthiest to

make an additional contribution to make sure the remaining phase of

dealing with the problems we inherited from the Labour Party is

done fairly. Part of our plan for that is a modest, additional levy on

high-value properties. That is a red line then? It is a key priority.

The ginger line may be! We delivered four of those policies through the

Coalition. We will deal with financial problems, not go back to

the old mistakes of the past on the economy, cutting taxes for working

people is a key Liberal Democrat priority. What about the higher rate

of tax being cut down to 40p, is that something the Liberal Democrats

support? I don't think so. I think at 45p we have the balance right,

somewhere in the middle of the pack, so that we are making sure

this is not sending a bad signal about British competitiveness but we

are sending strong signals that Great Britain is a great place to

invest. To you wouldn't sit in government with a party committed to

doing that, or if you were you would veto it? The issue is what role can

the Liberal Democrats play in British politics? So would you feel

to it? We would speak to whichever party has the best mandate, and we

want to deliver Liberal Democrat priorities. People want to know what

that means in practical terms. I think a Conservative government on

its own would be bad for the economy because it would try to take Britain

out of the European Union, and a Labour government by itself would

wreck the strategy that has got the Government this far. I think you

need to Liberal Democrats to keep the recovery on track for the next

Parliament. You seem to regard the Labour Party at the moment as a more

damaging prospect for Britain than the Conservatives? We have been

disagreements with both. Equity still wants? Yes, we want a strong

economy and a fair society. I don't think you can trust the Labour Party

to deliver a strong economy, I don't think you can trust the Conservative

party to deliver a fair society by themselves. It is not for me to

choose, it is not about who you get on well with. If you personally had

to choose between a fair society and a strong economy, which way would

you go? You cannot have one without the other. The idea of having a fair

society whilst flushing the economy down the toilet has been disproved

during the Labour government. I think the Liberal Democrats are

right to say you have got to want both. If this means anything, you

have to have a clear line on the 40p tax rate, and you have not said you

won't veto it. You might not like it but you would put up with it. I

don't want to go below 45p in the top rate of tax. It is part of our

priority around fair taxation, to say our focus in cutting taxes

should be cutting taxes for working people, not wealthy people. If I

moved north to your constituency to make Alex Salmond happy and vote for

you, will I know that you will stop the 40p rate happening or not? You

will know that the Liberal Democrat manifesto says we are not going to

cut the top rate of tax below 45p. I am not getting into hypothetical

scenarios, but I am saying that if you get the Liberal Democrats in

government next time, you can be sure a fairer tax system will be

central for our party. Your colleague Steve Webb caused a ripple

when he said pensioners could go out and buy Lamborghinis with their

pensions. That was a very wild use of language. The whole point of this

is to say that we think pensioners who have saved responsibly

throughout their entire lives should be free to use the money they have

saved up for themselves. And splurge, and then come back to the

state for more help. I don't think most pensioners would seek to use

their money in that way, and what's more, because of one of the reforms

that mean the basic state pension will be set above the basic level of

means testing, that means that whether someone has their own

additional pension or not, they will have a basic pension from 2016

onwards that keeps them out of the means testing system. The worry you

have is much less of a worry then it would have been if this had happened

with the complicated mass of means testing Gordon Brown imposed. A lot

of annuities were badly valued and people were resentful being forced

to buy them, nonetheless this reform could destroy the annuity industry

completely. Aren't you destroying the annuity system? I don't think

so. A lot of people will still want to buy annuities, there is still a

strong market there, but for some people different ways of using their

money would be better for their own retirement. One of the problems we

have seen is that the annuity market has become uncompetitive. I think

this could help to make the annuity market more competitive. You say

people are not going to splurge the money, but a lot of people will

certainly go into the buy to let market, it is the obvious thing to

do. I have been asking ministers if they are worried about a property

bubble again and again, and they are saying it is fine, and now you are

pouring petrol into a worrying part of the housing market. Aren't you

worried about a housing bubble? My priority is getting more houses

built. We have seen how successful the Help To Buy scheme has been, a

real success for many people on low and middle incomes, enabling people

to enter the housing market. 80% have been first-time buyers, and a

lot of it has led to new homes being constructed. On the pension thing,

the real challenge is for the Labour Party, they seem to be flip-flopping

and they cannot decide whether they trust people... We have run out of

time, thank you for now. Now over to Naga for the news headlines. One of

America's leading politicians, John McCain, has urged the Government to

send a military delegation to Ukraine. He accused President Putin

of wanting to restore the Russian Empire and encouraged the west to

freeze the assets of Russian oligarchs.

The Australian Prime Minister Tony Abbott says satellite images are

giving increasing hope of discovering what happened to the

Malaysian passenger jet which disappeared more than two weeks ago.

Planes from China have joined the search in the southern Indian Ocean

today. Aircraft on the scene have been investigating a possible

sighting of debris in the water. That's all from me. The next news on

BBC One is at one o'clock. Back to Andrew in a moment. First, a look at

what's coming up immediately after this programme.

We will be in Southampton at ten o'clock, asking should wealth be

taxed more? Is it time to make reparations for slavery? And can

kill must be healed by prayer? -- can illness be healed by prayer?

Danny Alexander and Chukka Umunna are still here. There are some very

worrying figures coming out on tuition fees, where originally you

thought 20% wouldn't pay up and it is now nearly 45%. That is a really

big problem for you, isn't it? These are based on projections of 35

years' time so the figures move about a lot. I am pleased with the

fact that we are seeing more people going to university than ever

before, and particularly children from disadvantaged backgrounds

applying unsuccessfully going to university, which suggests these

reforms are working. Do you think the tuition fee system is

financially stable? It has enabled universities to be financially

stable and more students to go to university. I think it is

catastrophic because having trouble tuition fees, you are at best seeing

it raise very little money, at worst costing more. It is a student loan

time bomb, and the result we are left with is that we have got young

viewers watching this programme who are subtle and will be saddled with

huge debts as a result. This coming from the party that gave us the

brown review in the first place about increasing tuition fees. We

should be focusing on the fact we have more young people from

disadvantaged backgrounds than ever before... Has either of you ever

driven a Lamborghini? I never have! What is the most expensive car you

have ever driven? I test drove a Tesla vehicle. That is a very cool

answer. That's about it for another week.

All sorts of good things next Sunday at nine but here's the thing.

Listen! There's motor racing - the Malaysian Grand Prix - here on BBC

One. So for one week only the show will be on BBC Two. Get the wrong

channel and all you will hear is growling. We can do better than

growling here - as promised, Gregory Porter and 'Liquid Spirit'.

# Un re-route the rivers # Let the dammed water be. # There's some

people down the way that's thirsty # So let the liquid spirit free.

# The people are thirsty # Cos of man's unnatural hand.

# Watch what happens when the people catch wind # When the water hits the

banks of that hard dry land. # Clap your hands now # Go ahead and

clap your hands now. # Clap your hands now # Go ahead and

clap your hands now, hmm. # Get ready for the wave # It might

strike like the final flood. # The people haven't drank is so long #

The water won't even make mud. # After it comes, it might come with

a steady flow # Grab the roots of the tree.

# Down by the river, fill your cup when your spirit's low.

# Clap your hands now # Go ahead and clap your hands now.

# Clap your hands now # Go ahead and clap your hands now, hmm.

# Dip down and take a drink # And fill your water tank.

# Dip down and take a drink # And fill your water tank.

# Un re-route the rivers # Let the dammed water be.

# There's some people down the way that's thirsty # Let the liquid

spirits free. # The folk are thirsty # Because of

man's unnatural hand. # Watch what happens when the people

catch wind # Of the water hitting banks of hard dry land.

# Clap your hands now # Go ahead and clap your hands now.