30/03/2014 The Andrew Marr Show


30/03/2014

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Good morning. Welcome and congratulations. You are the cream

:00:34.:00:40.

of the cream, the very elite of our audience - not only have you coped

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with the clock going forward, you have found us here on BBC Two safely

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away from little cars going round and round in circles on BBC One.

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Well done, we'll do our best to make it worth your while.

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And we've got a great pair of newspaper reviewers today, the

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comedian and impressionist Rory Bremner, who's now taken to the West

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End stage as an actor as well - and one of the key background figures in

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the Liberal Democrats for many years, Ollie Grender, now Baroness

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Grender. Frantic shuttle diplomacy this

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weekend over Ukraine, and reports of Russian troops massing on the

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border. The truth is, we don't have much of a military response these

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days. A stream of senior defence figures, from the Pentagon and

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Whitehall, has criticised the low level of British military spending.

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And again this morning, one of Britain's top generals tells the

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Sunday Times, UK forces can't do the job. I'll be talking to the Defence

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Secretary, Philip Hammond, who was himself in Washington last week to

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discuss the threat that Russia poses to Europe.

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In addition to being Shadow Foreign Secretary, Douglas Alexander is Ed

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Miliband's election strategist,whose job it is to coordinate a Labour

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triumph next year. Judging by the polls, way to go. What's next from

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Labour? There's a suggestion this morning that the party will axe

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student fees. Could that be true? Yesterday, Ed Miliband made a lot of

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his promise to freeze energy prices. It's become the Labour policy and

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has infuriated the Big Six energy suppliers. But are they coming

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around? The head of one of the biggest, SSE will be here later.

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Local television stations are opening up across the UK. London's

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one, London Live, is the brainchild of the Russian-born media tycoon

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Evgeny Lebedev. With the London Evening Standard and the

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Independent, he's building up quite a position in the capital. He joins

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me to talk about that and what's going on in Russia.

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And here's a coincidence, we've got some Russian-infused music. Sophie

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Ellis-Bextor, a dance-floor queen rebooted, now full of eastern

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promise. All that and more coming up soon.

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First the news with Sally Nugent. Good morning. A warship towing a

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black-box detector is preparing to join the search for the missing

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Malaysian airliner, off the western coast of Australia. The plane,

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carrying 239 people, vanished more than three weeks ago. Relatives of

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the Chinese passengers on board have arrived in Kuala Lumpur, to press

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for answers. From there, our correspondent Lucy Williamson has

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this report. Four days, search teams have spotted

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objects floating in the search zone. Now the focus is on the ships set to

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retrieve them. Without finding whatever it is shifting in the ocean

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currents, no one can say for sure if it is from the Malaysia Airlines

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plane. And in the air, sorting the relevant from the rubbish is not

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easy. We have recovered a couple of objects. There are some orange

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banners. There are some other object that on closer examination were

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fishing rope, that sort of thing. On first glance it looked interesting

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but when examined closer, they turned out to be rubbish from

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fishing vessels. While the wait for a breakthrough continues,

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Malaysia's Transport Minister paid a visit to the families of ten Chinese

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passengers waiting for news in Kuala Lumpur. A softer image of the

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Malaysian government designed to disprove accusations that its

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handling of the crisis is unreliable and un-transparent. More families of

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those on board the missing flight arrived today from China, come to

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find out why the search is taking so long and who to blame. They were

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quickly whisked away from journalists by Malaysian authorities

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but after more than three weeks of waiting, they are not here to stay

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silent. The US Secretary of State, John

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Kerry, will meet the Russian foreign minister Sergei Lavrov in Paris

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today to try to agree ways to resolve the crisis in Ukraine. The

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decision came after President Vladimir Putin spoke to President

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Barack Obama by phone late on Friday. Mr Obama has called on

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Russia to pull its troops back from Ukraine's border. Mr Lavrov told

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Russian TV on Saturday that Moscow had no intention of sending troops

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into the country. A Conservative MP has resigned as a

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ministerial aide because of allegations about his private life

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published in the Sunday Mirror. Mark Menzies was parliamentary private

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secretary to the International Development Minister Alan Duncan.

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The paper has spoken to a man who says he was paid by Mr Menzies for

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sex, but the MP says a number of the claims are not true.

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Tele-marketing companies that plague members of the public with unwanted

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calls could face bigger fines under new Government plans. The Ministry

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of Justice wants to make penalties easier to impose. Currently firms

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can only be punished if "substantial damage" is caused to householders.

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But some consumer groups say the changes don't go far enough.

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The Duke and Duchess of Cambridge have released a new official family

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photograph, to coincide with Mother's Day. Prince George is

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pictured in a blue jumper with his name on it in the informal shots

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taken at Kensington Palace by photographer Jason Bell. The

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family's pet cocker spaniel, Lupo is also included. William and Kate have

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chosen to release the image ahead of their forthcoming tour to New

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Zealand and Australia. That's all from me, for now. I'll be

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back with the headlines just before ten o'clock. Back to you, Andrew.

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Thank you Sally. Both the Sun and the Mirror have

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almost identical front pages. He is not a top Tory, he is a

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parliamentary bag carrier. The Sunday Mirror has the same story and

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it quotes the rent boy, he has many drugs. That picture that you heard

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about there on the front of the Mail on Sunday. Both the Independent on

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Sunday and the Sunday Telegraph have Climate Change Act stories. This one

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is about the disappearance of forests and the great climate change

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guru James Lovelock suggested we will have to live tightly packed

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together in cities if humanity is to survive. The Sunday Telegraph has

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Rowan Williams, the former Archbishop of Canterbury, talking

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about our lifestyle being to blame for climate change catastrophe.

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Finally, the Observer has a story about Alistair Carmichael saying we

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are in danger of losing the Scottish independence poll, that is the

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Better Together campaign. As promised, Rory Bremner and Ollie

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Grender, Baroness Grender are here. You are grander since the baroness

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it! Rory, you have chosen the front of the Sunday Telegraph. Yellow

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grass -- my analysis got as far as page one. Rowan Williams, is now

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chairman of Christian aid. It is the eve of the panel on climate change

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reporting. He was talking about the storms we saw over the winter as a

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portent of things to come. He is highlighting that unless we take

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serious action now, this will get worse and worse. And also that time

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is running out. This is the first we have seen of it but overseas, they

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have seen this. By this you mean the very wet winter? Yes, he says we are

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seeing the predictions that uncontrolled burning of fossil fuels

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will lead to the warming of the Earth and he says this is coming

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true. What is interesting is the space they are the giving this in

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the Telegraph which is traditionally very sceptical about climate

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change. They are the most sceptical. They have given it a good

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deal of space. I think the focus will be on climate change and he is

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banging the drum and saying we must wake up and take responsibility. The

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other thing which links into the Lib Dems thing, a weather-related story,

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Willie Rennie, who I do not think will be familiar to all of your

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viewers, he is the Lib Dem leader in Scotland, he has been calling for

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the Sunshine strategy in the referendum debate, meaning that the

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no campaign, according to the front page of the Observer, it has serious

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jitters. It is a difficult message to push, let's keep things as they

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are. He is calling for a Sunshine strategy which Scottish readers will

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know it will last for about six days. As Billy Connelly said, we

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have two seasons, winter and June! But they are getting jitters in the

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no campaign. And back onto the Climate Change Act issue, I think

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what is fascinating about this is there is now so much

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incontrovertible science. I think what is slightly peculiar is that

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the Telegraph tend to go for the nonscientist to bump up the story

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that there is so much compelling science which tells us that this is

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the case and we need to change this. And you have found another Scottish

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story? This is a kind of contrast to the dispute that is going on at the

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moment about the pound, which is actually, in Rosyth, 6.2 billion

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will be spent and continue to be spent, regardless of the vote. When

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Alex Salmond talks about, and it is always an odd picture to me, the

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picture of Alex Salmond being bullied in some way, is this not

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bullying, is it the opposite of bullying? This is that an

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independent Scotland would build warships for the rest of the UK

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after independence? Absolutely. Is this David Cameron's Black Sea

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fleet, the Crimean thing, Britain will do exercises in the Solway

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Firth to claim Scotland. I think his is an extremely difficult story.

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Yes, the Sunshine strategy is a good thing, it is showing the positives,

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that is why at the conference Willie Rennie was talking about in Britain,

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in Europe and in work. Talking about jobs and the benefit of the UK

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economy. Rory, take us to another story. As you mentioned, I am doing

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a play, I'm doing a Noel Coward play in the West End. There is a lovely

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line in Blyth spirit where he says, anything interesting in the Times

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and his wife says, don't be silly. But there is something interesting

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in the Times and that is about tuition fees. It is estimated that

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45% of tuition fees are still underpaid. If it gets as high as 48%

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it is costing more to administer it than they are getting in fees.

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Labour have picked up on this. The new strategy as they are talking

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about cutting tuition fees by 3000 or even ?5,000, bringing it right

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down. There are other ideas. Paul Kirby is talking about some of the

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lower ranked universities being stripped of their right to charge

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you should fees if excessive number of students fail to complete their

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courses. I think this is good for Labour to pick up on. And very

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difficult for your great leader? Ironically coming from a party which

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lamented the brown review in the first place which said there should

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be unlimited caps, and if it is the cut I have seen in the Sunday Times,

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this will impact on the wealthiest students but it will not help the

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poorest students. The significance of what has happened recently is

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students from a much poorer background in much larger numbers

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are coming in, as a result of not having to pay so much for the Jewish

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and fees as they currently stand. I will talk to Douglas Alexander about

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all of this. In Scotland they do not charge them. Lots of gay marriage in

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the paper. There are lots of photographs all over the place. What

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are great proud moment for us as a nation. So fantastic. Ten years ago,

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if we had been sitting here and predicting, would a conservative led

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coalition, with the Liberal Democrats who we believe have been

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instrumental in this, of course, be passing something like this gay

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marriage? It would be extraordinary. We would think it was preposterous

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but here we are. There are some beautiful pictures. And what a sad

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contrast to this, which feels like we are going back to the 80s, of

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somebody who most of us did admittedly have to Google. I do not

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know that says something about our level of knowledge. It feels like an

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old story. Gay marriage is about today but it feels like that story

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is an old-fashioned sex scandal from ten years ago. I think what we

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cannot miss out referencing is the weather this weekend is absolutely

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glorious, in spite of the UKIP councillor's prediction that the

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flooding was as a result of gay marriage. That is a very good point.

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And the other big picture. You cannot move for these pictures.

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Every other pillar of the establishment, if you like, or part

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of the scenery in Britain, whether it is the banks which are

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discredited literally, pulse dishes held in low esteem than ever, the

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church has problem with women bishops, and yet the Royals seem to

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be on a roll. That has carried on since the Jubilee a couple of years

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ago. Their PR is great. They have now got the dog vote. We have got a

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cocker spaniel ourselves. Lynton Crosby talks about the dog whistle

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strategy, I think as a strategy for winning over... And I love in the

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window, this gives the idea that they are actually living in one room

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to save on the bedroom tax! George has got his own brand at Asda,

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that's his little entrepreneur. He is in a 1-room flat with a dog.

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Right, pretty much an open goal for you there, Ollie Grender. Andrew

:15:53.:16:03.

Walmsley doesn't disappoint when he talks of the Labour Party. He

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spreads the divisions between the Labour Party and those of us who

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study at from a distance are always amazed by how intricate the

:16:12.:16:14.

different groupings are. There are so many different groupings who are

:16:15.:16:18.

Blairites, it sometimes gets very confusing. Andrew has helped us here

:16:19.:16:25.

by dividing it up into 35% as being majoritarian. My favourite is Ed

:16:26.:16:34.

versus Eder. The 35% people are those who think Labour can win with

:16:35.:16:39.

35% of the vote, except that, enjoy the position and those who say we

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must go further and reach deep into Middle England. Yes, and then your

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interviewee coming up, Douglas Ickes and, comes up some people are to

:16:48.:16:54.

ensure that he's bowled in terms of the manifesto -- Douglas Alexander.

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Is it possible... We will ask him. We happen to have in the studio.

:17:02.:17:07.

Now, you have chosen ADHD, story and the Observer. Whenever I read a

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story where they say it's not a real disease because it gets my hackles

:17:14.:17:16.

up because I have a relative with this. I have been diagnosed myself

:17:17.:17:23.

with it over the years. It affects one in 20 schoolchildren, half a

:17:24.:17:27.

million schoolchildren. Half a million families and possibly more

:17:28.:17:32.

than that. Do you think you had at school? Yes, looking back at school

:17:33.:17:36.

reports. The hyperactivity, inattentiveness, impulsiveness, all

:17:37.:17:39.

of those things, I recognise that in myself. Half a million

:17:40.:17:43.

schoolchildren in this country, and under estimate, I think, are

:17:44.:17:47.

struggling with this. I think it's the real thing. People talk about it

:17:48.:17:53.

being on the spectrum with autism and dyslexia. In a few weeks time,

:17:54.:18:03.

Bruce Perry, a child trauma doctor in Huston set may be a jumble of

:18:04.:18:07.

different conditions. They say it can be handled with drugs and

:18:08.:18:13.

medication is proved to be quite effective in the treatment ADHD,

:18:14.:18:16.

like depression, as it relates to chemicals in the brain.

:18:17.:18:22.

Neurotransmitters and dopamine. Children who have ADHD aren't

:18:23.:18:26.

producing that effectively said there was a role for medication. The

:18:27.:18:31.

fact that they say it's not a real disease, I think it's more

:18:32.:18:36.

complicated than that. Bruce Perry's point if they can teach

:18:37.:18:41.

adults as well and coach them through helping children. It affects

:18:42.:18:45.

so many children. I would like to do a documentary about in future. I

:18:46.:18:49.

think it's hard not to do the papers and pick up on some of the flight MH

:18:50.:18:55.

370 and there's no news, so it's incredibly tough, and we can see

:18:56.:18:59.

that on the broadcast as well, but this endless search just off Western

:19:00.:19:04.

Australia, trying to look for large pieces of wreckage for the Matthew

:19:05.:19:10.

Parris has an interesting piece yesterday on the Times. He studied

:19:11.:19:12.

the most hostile place on the planet. Much, much wild and

:19:13.:19:18.

dangerous than every other C. We think of it as a duck pond, and why

:19:19.:19:21.

can't they find something and actually, his piece yesterday was so

:19:22.:19:27.

relevant and these poor relatives, it's now turned into almost a

:19:28.:19:33.

mystery but everybody is watching but there are still 239 people who

:19:34.:19:37.

died on it and we have 45 relatives of passengers who will be flying to

:19:38.:19:41.

Kuala Lumpur today to find out more. I'm not going to let you do the

:19:42.:19:48.

Tasmanian whiskey story and I have drank it and is not quite as good as

:19:49.:19:51.

they say. I'm going to ask you about your play. It is Relative Values. It

:19:52.:20:05.

is with Patricia Hodge and Caroline Quentin. It is doing somebody else's

:20:06.:20:12.

lines but they are Noel Coward's lines and it's a dream cast and

:20:13.:20:16.

director. It had underperformed Gemma Fulford we are obsessed with

:20:17.:20:22.

people watching Downton Abbey, it's always been talked about here and

:20:23.:20:26.

America and is set in an aristocratic house, and it's all

:20:27.:20:30.

about class. Is this your future, do you think? One thing at a time. It's

:20:31.:20:37.

different. It's a privilege to do a play in the West End for the West

:20:38.:20:40.

End Fulford the bit something I never thought I'd do,

:20:41.:20:43.

once-in-a-lifetime thing. We will be at the Harold Pinter Theatre for the

:20:44.:20:47.

next two months. Ollie Grender mentioned the weather. It has been

:20:48.:20:52.

beautiful. Well, just in case you've woken up and realised that you've

:20:53.:20:56.

lost an hour out of your Sunday morning. Yes, British Summer Time

:20:57.:20:58.

has begun. It was appropriately sunny and warm here in London

:20:59.:21:02.

yesterday. Let's see what today will be like across the UK. Over to John

:21:03.:21:04.

Hammond. Mixed fortunes up and down the UK.

:21:05.:21:13.

Most of us will enjoy scenes like this if you're stepping out with a

:21:14.:21:16.

walk with mother. Some warm sunshine, but a lot of cloud across

:21:17.:21:21.

northern and western areas. Thick fog across north-east England. That

:21:22.:21:25.

will lift and many of us can look forward to some fine weather. The

:21:26.:21:29.

odd shower those two Cornel and Pembrokeshire particular in Northern

:21:30.:21:34.

Ireland. And it stays gloomy. Just as it did yesterday across

:21:35.:21:37.

north-eastern coast of England. And the more central and eastern parts

:21:38.:21:40.

of Scotland, that's driving but temperatures, so bright and warm

:21:41.:21:46.

further west. It will chair up in Northern Ireland. And it will warm

:21:47.:21:51.

up across England and Wales. All way up to northern England, possible low

:21:52.:21:55.

20s. It will brighten up across Wales, too. Further east, hazy

:21:56.:22:00.

sunshine and temperatures will peak north of London, I think. Maybe 21

:22:01.:22:06.

degrees, nice day. Further ahead, more rain around can hit and miss.

:22:07.:22:12.

Warm weather across southern areas. Further north, particular across

:22:13.:22:15.

north-eastern parts, a lot of cloud coming in. A fairly chilly prospect,

:22:16.:22:19.

I'm afraid but the most of us, fine day to come.

:22:20.:22:23.

Many thanks. The major energy companies are really in the

:22:24.:22:27.

spotlight. Denounced by politicians for allegedly ripping off their

:22:28.:22:30.

customers, lectured on their moral responsibilities by the Archbishop

:22:31.:22:33.

of Canterbury, and now the subject of a huge competition inquiry. But

:22:34.:22:36.

now the second biggest supplier, SSE, is bringing in a price freeze

:22:37.:22:41.

until 2016. I'm joined by SSE's chief executive, Alistair

:22:42.:22:47.

Phillips-Davies. Good morning. Thanks for coming in. This price

:22:48.:22:52.

freeze comes just ahead of the review into the position of the big

:22:53.:22:55.

six, some people will say at a cynical move to try to head off the

:22:56.:23:00.

review. Absolutely not. We had no idea when they were going to come

:23:01.:23:04.

out and say this. They've only said at the moment they will consult the

:23:05.:23:10.

price freeze. It was a result of us consulting customers, listening to

:23:11.:23:13.

what they wanted, it was clear to us the biggest agenda for customers

:23:14.:23:17.

following surveys we have done and the BBC have done if the cost of

:23:18.:23:21.

living increases over the next couple of years, so we have worked

:23:22.:23:25.

very hard to bring a price freeze in. This comes after all the

:23:26.:23:29.

companies had been talking about the terrible nature of the Labour

:23:30.:23:33.

Party's proposals to freeze prices. And suggestions from Centrica in

:23:34.:23:36.

particular that the end of investment, that's not true. No, I

:23:37.:23:41.

don't think it is due for the end of investment. In terms of what we said

:23:42.:23:47.

to politicians, we have all got the same objective, to keep bills down.

:23:48.:23:51.

That's very important to all of us. We have invested ?7.5 billion over

:23:52.:23:56.

the last five years and will invest 1.6 billion over the next year. So

:23:57.:24:00.

Ed Miliband says is possible to have a price freeze and keep the lights

:24:01.:24:04.

on. He is right? On the price freeze, the issue with what it came

:24:05.:24:09.

out with last September clearly was resonant with the public. We have

:24:10.:24:14.

seen a change since then, David Cameron has rolled his sleeves up,

:24:15.:24:16.

government changed policy in terms of dealing with some of green levies

:24:17.:24:20.

that we called for to be taken of the bills, and we dropped bills and

:24:21.:24:25.

?50 last week and on the back of the changes to the legislation, on

:24:26.:24:29.

carbon in the budget, the things we have done, we have been able to put

:24:30.:24:33.

a price freeze in place. Youth throws that a reasonably high level

:24:34.:24:40.

in 2016. What happens then? Do they go shooting up again? Absolutely

:24:41.:24:44.

not. We have written to the political parties asking them to

:24:45.:24:48.

work with us to see if we can bring prices down, particularly when you

:24:49.:24:50.

look at levies on the bills for the Wii just don't think it's fair

:24:51.:24:53.

everybody pays the same amount for the people in fuel poverty, people

:24:54.:24:58.

in hardship shouldn't pay the same amount as people who are not in

:24:59.:25:02.

hardship. For us, it's all about working together to reduce those

:25:03.:25:06.

levies and keep prices down. So we are well up for a debate on that.

:25:07.:25:12.

You are one of the Big Six. Is there pressure on the others to do the

:25:13.:25:17.

same? It's a competitive market out there. We all do different things.

:25:18.:25:20.

There's something we felt very strongly about, so we will see how

:25:21.:25:24.

everybody else response but in addition to the Big Six, there are

:25:25.:25:28.

15 smaller companies getting bigger and that's very healthy for

:25:29.:25:32.

competition. You have this huge competition enquiry. How worried are

:25:33.:25:37.

you that your company can be broken up as a result? I don't agree have

:25:38.:25:41.

any great concerns about the enquiry. The key thing for us is to

:25:42.:25:46.

acting consumers interests? We will look at how to keep bills down going

:25:47.:25:49.

forward, keep the investment flowing. As long as those things are

:25:50.:25:55.

there, we welcome the enquiry. It has been a Labour success getting

:25:56.:25:59.

you to this position, hasn't it? What I think is, when Ed Miliband

:26:00.:26:03.

came up with a statement, it resonated with the public. What we

:26:04.:26:07.

have been able to do, listening to him, is delivering something similar

:26:08.:26:10.

but we have delivered it now, in our own way, and in a way which is

:26:11.:26:16.

sustainable. We have seen costs come down in terms of what the government

:26:17.:26:20.

is done, and that has allowed us to do it. Since I have got you here,

:26:21.:26:23.

can I ask you about alternative sources of energy? There's huge

:26:24.:26:28.

quantities of coal and leave the North Sea, more than there was gas

:26:29.:26:32.

and oil, and that is the future. Does that recognise with you? New

:26:33.:26:38.

technologies are very important. We were in Peterhead a few weeks ago,

:26:39.:26:43.

and announced a big programme there. Certainly, if they're going to burn

:26:44.:26:46.

coal going forward, we will have to have technology to make sure we

:26:47.:26:50.

decarbonise some of those technologies, so I will be

:26:51.:26:54.

interested see how that goes. Offshore wind? You were sceptical

:26:55.:26:58.

about that. We have two big projects we have built, we have got a big

:26:59.:27:04.

project at great gathered. Because they are big and expensive projects,

:27:05.:27:10.

we lead a focus on one. We focused on one in Scotland. We will leave

:27:11.:27:17.

the other three for our partners to develop. Thank you very much for

:27:18.:27:22.

coming in this morning. Now then, Labour's popularity among voters

:27:23.:27:25.

appears to have taken a dip according to some recent polls. So

:27:26.:27:32.

here's the question. Is this because of a post-Budget Tory bounce or

:27:33.:27:35.

because people simply aren't hearing Ed Miliband's message? Or don't like

:27:36.:27:38.

it. Douglas Alexander, Labour's election coordinator, is the man

:27:39.:27:41.

whose mission it is to ensure that Labour gets the vote out and gets

:27:42.:27:45.

back in to Downing Street at next year's general election. Welcome.

:27:46.:27:47.

Before we turn to the polls, what about this business of getting rid

:27:48.:27:50.

of student fees? We are close to the levels where it's no worth

:27:51.:27:56.

collecting. This seems to be another Conservative Lib Dem policy that's

:27:57.:28:00.

not working. The rate of default emerged this week and is very high.

:28:01.:28:04.

Ed Miliband has gone on the record in the past saying this is a policy

:28:05.:28:07.

we are looking at, I suspect it's a policy we will address in our

:28:08.:28:11.

manifesto, and I hope we can offer a better solution to the students of

:28:12.:28:15.

this country and to the finances of this country than that we have seen

:28:16.:28:19.

from the Conservatives. As the rate of default goes up towards 48%, its

:28:20.:28:23.

possible Labour will get the did this fee? We are dealing with this

:28:24.:28:27.

as part of a policy process and I expect it's an issue we will address

:28:28.:28:31.

in the manifesto. It's very clear, even on the government market was

:28:32.:28:34.

own evidence, it's not a policy that's working. Nobody wants to talk

:28:35.:28:39.

about the polls, they never mean anything, nobody looks of the more

:28:40.:28:43.

reason, but they are pretty die at the moment and a lot of people in

:28:44.:28:46.

the party getting worried. What do you need to do differently from what

:28:47.:28:50.

you've been doing in the past? We have got two different ones as

:28:51.:28:54.

Monica one suggests we have a 7-point lead, so frankly, they will

:28:55.:28:58.

move around but in terms of the last couple of weeks, some of the

:28:59.:29:02.

headlines of changed, but they haven't change of economic and the

:29:03.:29:08.

politics. One doesn't address the fundamental truth of the economy

:29:09.:29:10.

that millions of people watching this programme are facing a cost of

:29:11.:29:15.

living crisis and in terms of politics, we have always known this

:29:16.:29:18.

is going to be a tough contest and a tight election but I certainly would

:29:19.:29:23.

not call this a bad government that deserves to lose but election Labour

:29:24.:29:30.

Coman. We watched Ed Miliband spate the Welsh Labour Party conference

:29:31.:29:33.

yesterday. Yet the economists say the crisis is ending and average

:29:34.:29:40.

wages are rising, and by the time of the next election, the cost of

:29:41.:29:43.

living is not going to the number one issue. Cost of living is not

:29:44.:29:47.

running out of steam. The Conservative government is running

:29:48.:29:50.

out of time. At the time of the election, for the first time in

:29:51.:29:54.

decades, we will have a government which has delivered lower living

:29:55.:29:57.

standards, for millions of British families, ?1600 worse off at the end

:29:58.:30:01.

of the Parliament than at the beginning of the Parliament, which

:30:02.:30:04.

is why it's critical we continue to set out our thinking as we did on

:30:05.:30:07.

energy prices. Remember where we were in September. We had energy

:30:08.:30:12.

bosses, like the one you just had, saying price freezes were impossible

:30:13.:30:15.

and the Conservatives saying it was ridiculous. This week we have seen

:30:16.:30:19.

one of the Big Six confirming there was going to be a price freeze which

:30:20.:30:23.

you just heard about and we also heard from Ofgem saying actually,

:30:24.:30:27.

the resetting of the energy market is necessary. That would not have

:30:28.:30:30.

happened but for the leadership Ed Miliband and the Labour Party are

:30:31.:30:37.

shown. So why are things not better? The polls remain pretty dire

:30:38.:30:42.

for you. You have had this long recession, what you regard as a

:30:43.:30:47.

ridiculous government stuffed with old Etonians and people are still

:30:48.:30:52.

level pegging, in fact, you only just back at the level you took in

:30:53.:30:58.

2010. We took a bad beating in 2010. Let's look at what has happened in

:30:59.:31:04.

terms of votes. We have won more council seats across the country.

:31:05.:31:08.

And we can look ahead to the next year. We have the Conservatives in a

:31:09.:31:12.

death struggle with UKIP on the right of politics with the Liberal

:31:13.:31:15.

Democrats wandering around trying to find their base. There is a genuine

:31:16.:31:23.

opportunity in the next year with Labour with a credible manifesto to

:31:24.:31:25.

dominate politics, not just potentially be the largest party

:31:26.:31:28.

that I believe to secure the Labour majority which can transform the

:31:29.:31:33.

country. So you are content? I am not content, I am ambitious. I want

:31:34.:31:40.

to change things for people suffering the cost of living prices.

:31:41.:31:43.

We are in politics to change lives. When you look at what is happening

:31:44.:31:47.

in terms of youth unemployment, poverty across the country, the

:31:48.:31:52.

country needs a Labour government. But there are no new messages coming

:31:53.:31:57.

from Labour? We have had clear policies in relation to the energy

:31:58.:32:05.

crisis and banking. We will have our growth commission. We will set out

:32:06.:32:08.

our thinking at the time of the conference which I believe addresses

:32:09.:32:12.

the needs of the country and we can offer that with confidence and no

:32:13.:32:19.

complacency. We read a lot of arguments between those radicals and

:32:20.:32:24.

less radical, where are you? I do not think it is a great headline

:32:25.:32:28.

saying the Labour team are united in working for a victory so I think we

:32:29.:32:32.

can dismiss some of the headlines. It is a totally false choice to be

:32:33.:32:36.

credible or radical. If you are not credible, then people will not trust

:32:37.:32:41.

you. If you are not radical, people say you all the same. That is why I

:32:42.:32:45.

say we will offer credible and radical policies. That is what we

:32:46.:32:50.

have done on energy prices. You have brought in a barn's great election

:32:51.:32:55.

winning Guru and Ireland are being told he will change things on the

:32:56.:33:00.

ground -- you have brought in Barack Obama's election Guru. And now you

:33:01.:33:08.

have fired him. He is still working for the party. He will be involved

:33:09.:33:11.

in the general election campaign. The work he has started will be

:33:12.:33:17.

taken forward. We have 100 organisers. We did not have 100

:33:18.:33:22.

organisers in 1997 when we won our historic victory. We are up against

:33:23.:33:27.

the party which has halved its membership since David Cameron

:33:28.:33:33.

became leader, average age 69 and rising. The Conservative Party are

:33:34.:33:37.

party in retreat. Labour is advancing in the critical margin

:33:38.:33:41.

seats where we will see the outcome in the general election. Let me ask

:33:42.:33:44.

you about a choice coming much earlier than that which is the

:33:45.:33:48.

Scottish referendum campaign. Your Liberal Democrats colleague Mr

:33:49.:33:56.

Carmichael has said that he is worried that the Better Together or

:33:57.:33:59.

no campaign are losing the argument. It seems a bit like Vietnam's

:34:00.:34:07.

politics. The no campaign are bombing from huge height and down in

:34:08.:34:11.

the jungle the SNP are fighting a gorilla campaign and they are

:34:12.:34:15.

winning. I was on the streets of Paisley yesterday and our messages

:34:16.:34:19.

break clear. We can, as Scots, have the best of both worlds. More

:34:20.:34:23.

decisions in Scotland and at the same time having the strength and

:34:24.:34:27.

stability of the United Kingdom behind us. I think that will be a

:34:28.:34:31.

winning message in September. You are not worried that the SNP are

:34:32.:34:38.

doing better than they were. The reality is, the SNP have given up

:34:39.:34:43.

trying to reduce evidence, they are simply appealing to a motion. I

:34:44.:34:48.

think the right way for the Better Together campaign to win is not just

:34:49.:34:52.

to offer evidence but to offer an ocean. I passionately believe in

:34:53.:34:56.

Scotland's possibilities for the future. I passionately believe we

:34:57.:35:00.

would be stronger together and weaker apart. You also Shadow

:35:01.:35:05.

Foreign Secretary so let's jump a long way to Ukraine. Are you worried

:35:06.:35:08.

about the amassing of troops on the border and you think we see a big

:35:09.:35:21.

escalation in the problem? Yes, I am worried about that. I think this is

:35:22.:35:23.

the biggest security challenge we have faced in many years. We have

:35:24.:35:27.

taken a bipartisan approach on this. We are working with other members of

:35:28.:35:32.

the European Union, with our friends and allies in the United States, to

:35:33.:35:37.

alter the risk of of judgement that Putin takes. We have to stop him

:35:38.:35:41.

moving into Ukraine. He has to realise there will be consequences

:35:42.:35:45.

if we see that regrettable action. Does that mean some sabre rattling

:35:46.:35:50.

is needed at this point? No, I think there needs to be deft and frankly

:35:51.:35:56.

difficult diplomacy in the weeks ahead to make sure there is an

:35:57.:36:00.

alteration of course by the Russians. Douglas Alexander, thank

:36:01.:36:04.

you for joining us this morning. Evgeny Lebedev is a Russian who's

:36:05.:36:08.

part of a revolution. A TV revolution. When the government

:36:09.:36:11.

announced the creation of "ultra-local" television stations

:36:12.:36:14.

across the UK, one of the biggest names to get a new licence as a

:36:15.:36:17.

broadcaster was Mr Lebedev. The owner of the London Evening Standard

:36:18.:36:21.

and the Independent newspaper, now a British citizen, he has used his

:36:22.:36:24.

financial and cultural clout to establish London Live. Welcome. And

:36:25.:36:33.

London Live opens tomorrow? Yes, 630 PM on channel eight on the free

:36:34.:36:40.

view. What can we expect? I love London. I have been here since the

:36:41.:36:48.

age of eight. I own a pub and also the only London newspaper, the

:36:49.:36:52.

London Evening Standard. So now I thought London does not have its own

:36:53.:36:58.

TV channel, that is wrong, so that is why this came about. London is a

:36:59.:37:01.

great city which has so much to offer in terms of culture, art,

:37:02.:37:07.

theatre, sport and music so that we'll all be brought to London

:37:08.:37:14.

tomorrow. ITV offers a London news channel. This is purely a London

:37:15.:37:19.

channel. Even though it will be the same quality as all the national

:37:20.:37:23.

channels, I have been watching a lot of pilots and it looks very exciting

:37:24.:37:28.

and interesting, but what is different is it provides all the

:37:29.:37:32.

great thing about London culturally, politically as well as

:37:33.:37:35.

business, through this channel which goes live tomorrow. For example,

:37:36.:37:41.

Digital theatre is going to be presenting live Theatre on London

:37:42.:37:49.

Live. The first play, Love song at Hammersmith Lyric will be broadcast.

:37:50.:37:56.

Will you have a close grip on the editorial issues, who will be next

:37:57.:38:01.

mayor, that kind of thing? As in the newspapers, the same thing will be

:38:02.:38:05.

on television. They will have their own editors. It has to be in line

:38:06.:38:09.

with OFCOM rules like the BBC and other channels. I think what is also

:38:10.:38:16.

important to point out is that Londoners have so much that they see

:38:17.:38:21.

on a daily basis and that is not always represented because the other

:38:22.:38:25.

channels have to represent nationwide television. You have the

:38:26.:38:28.

London Evening Standard, not just the Independent but also the "i"

:38:29.:38:37.

which circulates more cheaply. Some people will say you have too much

:38:38.:38:43.

power. Jelena what I am trying to do is create a service for London. This

:38:44.:38:49.

stage in -- this station was awarded to me by the British government. I'm

:38:50.:38:54.

trying to create something which will give Londoners not only jobs

:38:55.:39:01.

but also this channel succeeds, a platform to create more talent. You

:39:02.:39:05.

asked me earlier about the BBC and ITV, we are trying to create a

:39:06.:39:10.

channel which is completely different from all the others. I

:39:11.:39:13.

like taking well-known names and celebrities and putting them on the

:39:14.:39:17.

channel. We have tried to create a launch pad for new talent. We have

:39:18.:39:25.

taken people who are on YouTube and given them a platform on London

:39:26.:39:30.

Live. We mentioned the Independent. I have read it is up for sale at the

:39:31.:39:37.

moment. Is it really up for sale? I am not actively trying to sell it.

:39:38.:39:40.

If somebody comes about and offers the right price, it could be for

:39:41.:39:44.

sale but that could be said about any newspaper. What I will say,

:39:45.:39:50.

going back to the Independent and London Live, we as a company have

:39:51.:39:54.

been known for innovation. We have taken the Evening Standard which was

:39:55.:39:58.

about to shut down if it was not to be sold. It was losing circulation

:39:59.:40:04.

very much. We have taken it free and now we have gone from 700,000 to

:40:05.:40:10.

900,000 copies and from losing 30 million, it is now making a profit.

:40:11.:40:15.

And the same with the "i". It was launched when people said newspapers

:40:16.:40:24.

are dying. Together with the Independent, it sells over three and

:40:25.:40:29.

60,000 copies and it is also will be losing ?5 million compared to 20

:40:30.:40:32.

million which it was losing a year ago. So that is better. You also own

:40:33.:40:38.

a lot of property in the Crimea. Are you worried about your holdings

:40:39.:40:41.

there and what you think of what is going on back? Yes, I still own

:40:42.:40:47.

property in the Crimea, hopefully. I am very concerned. What I will say

:40:48.:40:53.

it is a very comes located subject that a lot of the time is

:40:54.:40:58.

misunderstood in the West. Crimea, what people do not realise, has been

:40:59.:41:04.

for many centuries part of Russia, and only recently part of Ukraine.

:41:05.:41:08.

And although I would say the referendum may not have been held

:41:09.:41:12.

under the right circumstances, I think the actual outcome of the vote

:41:13.:41:15.

would have been the same. One thing I would say is yesterday we have

:41:16.:41:19.

seen that Russia has reached out to the west and I think now it is time

:41:20.:41:24.

to stop Cold War rhetoric on both sides and start talking. The Cold

:41:25.:41:27.

War is over, let's not start another one. In the middle of the Cold War

:41:28.:41:33.

rhetoric, do you think there is a bit of a shiver going through the

:41:34.:41:36.

oligarchs in London and what will happen to them and their positions?

:41:37.:41:41.

To be very honest, I do not speak to many oligarchs in London. But I

:41:42.:41:46.

think if sanctions were to go any further, I think the city of London

:41:47.:41:53.

and London's economy would have been affected, but I think now there is

:41:54.:41:56.

not going to be any further incursions into any land and not in

:41:57.:42:02.

Crimea and definitely not any further. I think it is now time to

:42:03.:42:07.

talk. Thank you for joining us. Last week a committee of MPs

:42:08.:42:10.

expressed concerns about Britain's military capability after years of

:42:11.:42:13.

cuts. Recently, Robert Gates, the former US Defence Secretary

:42:14.:42:16.

suggested that the UK was incapable of acting as a full military partner

:42:17.:42:20.

to America. The chorus of concern is almost deafening. Is there any sign

:42:21.:42:25.

at all that the government's listening? The Defence Secretary,

:42:26.:42:32.

Philip Hammond joins me now. Are you listening to all these generals,

:42:33.:42:35.

people who think you have cut too far, you are down to the bone and

:42:36.:42:40.

really damaging our standing abroad? Of course I am listening.

:42:41.:42:45.

Much of what I am hearing is nonsense. We still have the fourth

:42:46.:42:49.

largest defence budget in the world. I was in the Pentagon this week

:42:50.:42:54.

past. I heard my US counterpart talk about Britain as a credible, capable

:42:55.:42:59.

and reliable ally and that is what we intend to remain. Of course we

:43:00.:43:05.

have had to make savings and take tough decisions. But we are working

:43:06.:43:09.

with the military chiefs to make sure we prioritise our very large

:43:10.:43:13.

defence budget, invest it in the areas which will matter in the

:43:14.:43:17.

future and I recognise that sometimes that has meant that we

:43:18.:43:21.

have had to take decisions which have upset people, about legacy

:43:22.:43:25.

capabilities. But we are looking to the future and not the past. So when

:43:26.:43:30.

the general said this morning that the Royal Navy is no longer in a

:43:31.:43:34.

position when it is taking part in regular naval exercise as it used

:43:35.:43:40.

to, is he wrong? We do take part in naval exercises but we also busy

:43:41.:43:44.

interrupting large drug shipments and the Navy has had incredible

:43:45.:43:49.

successes, counterpart was the work off the Horn of Africa, reassurance

:43:50.:43:54.

in the Gulf where we have a significant presence. We have a

:43:55.:43:58.

vessel on the way to the southern Indian Ocean at the moment to help

:43:59.:44:04.

with the Malaysia Airlines search. We said two warships to the

:44:05.:44:10.

Philippines to help in the disaster relief there after the hurricane.

:44:11.:44:15.

The Royal Navy is busy around the world and of course we would like to

:44:16.:44:20.

have more assets, but we are very effective at using the assets we

:44:21.:44:23.

have got to deliver the effect we need to do. Are you concerned about

:44:24.:44:27.

the Russian forces on the edge of the Ukraine at the moment? Of

:44:28.:44:33.

course, everybody is concerned. We are concerned there might be further

:44:34.:44:37.

incursion in the territory of a sovereign nation. But whether there

:44:38.:44:41.

is or there is not, we all ought to be concerned about the use of this

:44:42.:44:44.

very crude and blunt instrument to try and influence other and their

:44:45.:44:54.

behaviour. So when a former Defence Staff says we should keep forces in

:44:55.:44:58.

Germany and go into larger scale exercises, in Germany, is that

:44:59.:45:03.

something you can get satisfaction on? One of the things you're looking

:45:04.:45:08.

at is a greater participation in exercises in the Baltic states,

:45:09.:45:11.

Eastern European, NATO member countries, as a way of reassuring

:45:12.:45:16.

them about our commitment to the Article five of the Washington

:45:17.:45:22.

Treaty, the mutual guarantee of the collective national... I don't agree

:45:23.:45:28.

with that. The decisions we made about bringing our forces out of

:45:29.:45:32.

Germany are in order to ensure maximum effectiveness. By keeping

:45:33.:45:37.

all our armoured capability together on the Salisbury plain, so would

:45:38.:45:41.

contain together and work together, we will maximise the effectiveness

:45:42.:45:45.

of it. It's those kind of decisions about how we maximise the

:45:46.:45:49.

effectiveness of our forces that are necessary if we're going to remain

:45:50.:45:54.

first-rate miniature power. When there is a lot of worry about what's

:45:55.:45:57.

going to happen next in Eastern Europe and on the Russian border,

:45:58.:46:01.

what extra help can we give the NATO partners? We have already announced

:46:02.:46:07.

we will provide Typhoon aircraft, based possibly in Estonia, to

:46:08.:46:12.

support the Polish led Baltic air policing mission, during the summer.

:46:13.:46:17.

We are looking at opportunities to increase participation in planned

:46:18.:46:26.

NATO exercises as another way of reassuring our NATO allies. Nobody

:46:27.:46:29.

should be in any doubt of our resolve to live up to our

:46:30.:46:32.

commitments under the NATO treaty. Do we have the commitment to live up

:46:33.:46:39.

to the resolve? That was the question Mr Gates was suggesting.

:46:40.:46:43.

The answer is yes, we are a credible ally for that one of only two large

:46:44.:46:49.

NATO allies that spends over 2% of our GDP on defence. And we have the

:46:50.:46:54.

fourth largest defence budget in the world. The USA is made clear in its

:46:55.:47:00.

own defence review that it will rely on allies and partners more in the

:47:01.:47:03.

future than it has done in the past and Britain is the most obvious and

:47:04.:47:07.

most credible ally for the United States. I have to ask you this. It's

:47:08.:47:13.

been suggested that a Cabinet minister spoke to the Guardian

:47:14.:47:17.

newspaper and implied that Britain and an independent Scotland could

:47:18.:47:21.

share the pound. There could be a trade-off involving trident. A lot

:47:22.:47:25.

of people are suggesting a few. I have been in Washington this last

:47:26.:47:32.

week. Let me be very clear. When the euro was union without a fiscal

:47:33.:47:43.

political union will not work. We were proven to be right. And we are

:47:44.:47:50.

not about to repeat the mistake with Scotland in the unlikely event the

:47:51.:47:53.

Scottish people vote for independence. The reasons we

:47:54.:47:56.

couldn't have a currency union between the rest of the UK in

:47:57.:48:01.

Scotland are not political. It's not because they would be bad blood.

:48:02.:48:04.

It's because there are sound economic reasons why a currency

:48:05.:48:10.

union without deep fiscal and political union doesn't work. These

:48:11.:48:16.

are two closely integrated economies. Would it be common sense

:48:17.:48:28.

to accept that? You can't do it. If you have different fiscal holidays,

:48:29.:48:32.

different political policies generally, your economies will

:48:33.:48:38.

diverged. The monetary needs of one economy will be different to the

:48:39.:48:44.

other. And we saw that in Europe during the Euro crisis of what

:48:45.:48:47.

would've been the right monetary stance for Germany was the wrong

:48:48.:48:52.

monetary stance for or Italy. If the Scots are prepared to accept that

:48:53.:48:57.

and have that, that's their problem, surely, not London's

:48:58.:49:02.

problem. We have made it clear we do not believe a monetary union could

:49:03.:49:06.

work between two independent nations with separate fiscal and political

:49:07.:49:09.

systems. The Chancellor and the chief secretary, across the

:49:10.:49:15.

coalition have made clear that we could not do that. What about this

:49:16.:49:20.

colleague, whoever he or she could be covered you know who they are?

:49:21.:49:25.

No, I don't. It's someone close to central government. According to the

:49:26.:49:30.

government, some of you would expect to play a major role in negotiations

:49:31.:49:35.

post-referendum. That's why they were talking about you because

:49:36.:49:39.

defence is a huge issue. At the further thoughts about the future

:49:40.:49:43.

trident? If there's a Yes Vote, if the end of trident, it? No, I've

:49:44.:49:48.

answered this question on many occasions. The Trident base is

:49:49.:49:56.

hugely important to Britain's defence and we provide defence for

:49:57.:50:03.

whole of the UK. I firmly believe Scotland is safer as part of the UK.

:50:04.:50:08.

If the Scottish people were to vote for independence, there would be a

:50:09.:50:11.

protracted negotiation about many issues. And the future of the base

:50:12.:50:16.

at Faslane would be one of those issues. What I'm saying about

:50:17.:50:21.

currency union if that is not just another item that could be

:50:22.:50:25.

negotiated because there are clear economic reasons why it would not

:50:26.:50:29.

work. That's why we have set out clearly that that is not part of the

:50:30.:50:34.

negotiations for the bid could not be part of the negotiations.

:50:35.:50:38.

Afghanistan. At the moment, there's elections happening in Helmand

:50:39.:50:45.

province and the Taliban are either shooting or hanging people who try

:50:46.:50:49.

to vote. That is not the Afghanistan anybody thought we would be handing

:50:50.:50:55.

over. No one has ever suggested Afghanistan has transformed into a

:50:56.:50:58.

totally peaceful and functioning democracy, but it's a lot better

:50:59.:51:04.

than it was when we went in there. We are conducting these elections

:51:05.:51:08.

but, clearly, there is insurgent activity in parts of the country and

:51:09.:51:12.

the government is not able to control what happens in every area.

:51:13.:51:18.

the government is not able to It's not a perfect situation.

:51:19.:51:19.

the government is not able to control what happens in every area.

:51:20.:51:19.

the government is not able to It's not a perfect situation. The

:51:20.:51:19.

key question is whether we can deliver our principal objectives,

:51:20.:51:24.

ensuring that Al-Qaeda and its associates cannot re-establish

:51:25.:51:29.

themselves in Afghanistan and use Afghanistan as a base from which to

:51:30.:51:35.

strike. An extremist antifemale, theocratic state in Afghanistan

:51:36.:51:38.

which kept Al-Qaeda ad would be enough for us? No, we have

:51:39.:51:42.

established in Afghanistan the conditions which have allowed a

:51:43.:51:46.

democracy, not a perfect one, to take hold, a presidential election

:51:47.:51:54.

going on right now which has been aggressively fought between

:51:55.:51:56.

candidates with clearly differentiated policy positions. And

:51:57.:52:00.

voting will take place across the country. I'm not going to say to you

:52:01.:52:05.

in every single location it will happen in the way we would like to

:52:06.:52:08.

happen. The situation there is a lot better than it was before we went

:52:09.:52:13.

into that country. There's been a lot in today's papers about the

:52:14.:52:15.

aftermath of gay marriage at the weekend. Looking at the happy

:52:16.:52:20.

photographs and so on, do you think this is a good thing for a

:52:21.:52:23.

Conservative government have done? We have made that decision,

:52:24.:52:30.

Parliament made a decision... I'm wondering whether you changed your

:52:31.:52:33.

mind on this? I was never against the principle. My concern was about

:52:34.:52:37.

the pace, but it's history, we have done it and like all my colleagues

:52:38.:52:42.

across government, I have been involved in making sure the

:52:43.:52:45.

introduction of same-sex marriage is smooth and effective, it's now in

:52:46.:52:49.

place. The people who have been opposed to this, people with

:52:50.:52:52.

concerns about it, we'll get used to it, they will move on, and there are

:52:53.:52:56.

many other battles to fight in the future. Where you shocked by the

:52:57.:53:01.

front page of the Mirror and the sun this morning, one of your

:53:02.:53:04.

colleagues, not a top Tory, but a colleague, who has had to resign

:53:05.:53:09.

over rent by allegations? This is a personal matter for the individual

:53:10.:53:12.

concerned. I haven't actually read the front page this morning of the

:53:13.:53:16.

mirror, but it's always very sad when people are involved in personal

:53:17.:53:20.

issues that impact on their careers. That's a matter for the person

:53:21.:53:24.

concerned. Philip Hammond, thank you very much indeed for joining us. Now

:53:25.:53:28.

over to Sally for the news headlines. Good morning. The US

:53:29.:53:34.

Secretary of State, John Kerry, will meet the Russian Foreign Minister

:53:35.:53:37.

Sergei Lavrov in Paris today to try to agree ways to resolve the crisis

:53:38.:53:41.

in Ukraine. The decision came after President Vladimir Putin spoke to

:53:42.:53:44.

President Barack Obama by phone late on Friday. Mr Obama has called on

:53:45.:53:47.

Russia to pull its troops back from Ukraine's border. Mr Lavrov told

:53:48.:53:50.

Russian TV on Saturday that Moscow had no intention of sending troops

:53:51.:53:54.

into the country. A warship towing a black-box detector is preparing to

:53:55.:53:57.

join the search for the missing Malaysian airliner, off the western

:53:58.:54:00.

coast of Australia. Relatives of Chinese passengers from the plane

:54:01.:54:03.

have flown to Kuala Lumpur to seek answers from the Malaysian

:54:04.:54:06.

authorities. The plane carrying 239 people went missing more than three

:54:07.:54:18.

weeks ago. That's all from me. Back to Andrew in just a moment but first

:54:19.:54:21.

a look at what's coming up immediately after this programme.

:54:22.:54:28.

Join us on BBC Two, live from Glasgow when, as a review of the

:54:29.:54:31.

voting system is announced, we debate whether Britain was democracy

:54:32.:54:34.

is working and then promiscuity and the morning after pill, and lastly,

:54:35.:54:40.

the end Times, are they imminent? See you at 10am on BBC Two. Thank

:54:41.:54:49.

you, Sally. Philip Hammond are still here. These talks going on between

:54:50.:54:52.

the Americans and Sergei Lavrov, is this a big breakthrough? Is this

:54:53.:54:57.

when the crisis started to recede? I hope so because we have to find a

:54:58.:55:00.

deeper magic solution to the crisis over the Crimea while continuing to

:55:01.:55:05.

make very clear to the Russians that if they were to go any further into

:55:06.:55:11.

the Ukraine, there would be a raft of new measures against them would

:55:12.:55:15.

have heard the Russian economy. These talks are vital but in the USA

:55:16.:55:19.

and Russia but equally vital we see talks between Russia and the

:55:20.:55:22.

Ukraine, that's the basis on which we can see a lowering of the

:55:23.:55:25.

temperature and a de-escalation of what remained so very serious on

:55:26.:55:30.

eastern Ukrainian border. For how long do you think we will be worried

:55:31.:55:32.

about Russian energy security policies? When will we have our own

:55:33.:55:41.

independence as an SSE man? We are investing a lot in this country. We

:55:42.:55:45.

have gas from Norway and other places, as well, tax incentives

:55:46.:55:49.

coming into the North Sea. I would like to see more North Sea

:55:50.:55:52.

investment coming to. Maybe in ten years' time, we won't be thinking

:55:53.:55:56.

the Russians could turn out the lights? Reducing our collective

:55:57.:56:02.

independence on Russian energy is critically important. That's an

:56:03.:56:04.

important issue, independent of what happened over the last few weeks.

:56:05.:56:09.

The development is going on now give us good cause to expect that we will

:56:10.:56:16.

become more independent. If the Russians want Ukraine to stay out of

:56:17.:56:19.

NATO, is that a reasonable request given the historic links? It must be

:56:20.:56:24.

for the Ukrainian people to determine their future. Including

:56:25.:56:28.

where they stand on international organisations but, we need

:56:29.:56:32.

discussions between the Ukrainians and the Russians. Thank you very

:56:33.:56:36.

much all of you. I'm afraid that's all we've got time for this morning.

:56:37.:56:42.

We will be back next Sunday at 9am on BBC One. We will talk about

:56:43.:56:47.

welfare and that man in charge, Iain Duncan Smith joined this next

:56:48.:56:51.

Sunday. Until then, we leave you with Sophie Ellis-Bextor. This is 13

:56:52.:56:52.

Little Dolls. Good morning. # Darkness ain't a sin.

:56:53.:57:02.

# It's the visions in your head. # Leave it on the windowsill.

:57:03.:57:05.

# It's for them now instead. # Do you think they know your heart?

:57:06.:57:12.

# It wouldn't be a big surprise. # Because the pendulum will swing.

:57:13.:57:17.

# Whenever night arrives. # 13 go a-wandering from grandma's

:57:18.:57:20.

hands to mine. # And I'll never be alone.

:57:21.:57:25.

# I'm cursed and I am blessed. # It's all and it is less.

:57:26.:57:32.

# You would not believe the tales they tell.

:57:33.:57:37.

# The good, the bad, the hurts like hell.

:57:38.:57:41.

# Burden those who live the shaded path.

:57:42.:57:45.

# They won't betray their wooden mask.

:57:46.:57:50.

# Find them, hide them, keep them safe.

:57:51.:57:53.

# Those one three little dolls. # One for each mood of the day.

:57:54.:57:57.

# Those one three little dolls. # Cross your heart and dare to

:57:58.:57:59.

sleep. # Leave them out to play.

:58:00.:58:03.

# One, two, three, four, five, six, seven, eight, nine, ten, 11, 12, 13

:58:04.:58:05.

little dolls. # See I was told a tale.

:58:06.:58:15.

# Of witches in a box. # Lift the lid and spirits rise.

:58:16.:58:19.

# And I see them now, of course. # Now they're here beside the bed.

:58:20.:58:22.

# I feel 620 eyes. # Because for every twist and turn.

:58:23.:58:34.

# You would not believe the tales they tell.

:58:35.:58:37.

# The good, the bad, the hurts like hell.

:58:38.:58:39.

# Not apparent to the naked eye. # But with the third, it all takes

:58:40.:58:50.

flight. # One, two, three, four, five, six,

:58:51.:58:54.

seven, eight, nine, ten, 11, 12, 13 little dolls.

:58:55.:58:57.

# One, three, five, seven, nine, 11, 13, 13.

:58:58.:58:59.

# One, three, five, seven, nine, 11, 13, 13.

:59:00.:59:02.

# One, three, five, seven, nine, 11, 13, 13.

:59:03.:59:04.

# One, three, five, seven, nine, 11, 13, 13.

:59:05.:59:07.

# One, two, three, four, five, six, seven, eight, nine, ten, 11, 12, 13

:59:08.:59:16.

little dolls #. # One for each mood of the day.

:59:17.:59:19.

# Those 13 little dolls.

:59:20.:59:22.

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