15/11/2015 The Andrew Marr Show

Another bleak morning after the hideous massacre in Paris.

David Cameron has told the French, "Your fight is our fight".

Isis say the attack is the "First of the storm".

So how long before this war reaches our streets too?

I'm joined this morning by the Home Secretary, Theresa May,

the Shadow Justice Secretary, Lord Falconer,

and the French Ambassador to the UK, Sylvie Bermann.

Joining us for our review of the papers,

the BBC's security correspondent Frank Gardner,

and Amol Rajan, editor of the Independent.

And later on, we'll finish the show musically

But first, the news with Steph McGovern.

A service will be held at Notre Dame Cathedral in Paris today,

as France observes three days of mourning for the victims

of Friday's gun and bomb attacks.

As well as the 129 people who were killed,

A huge police investigation is now under way stretching across Europe.

Paris mourns and prepares to bury its dead.

As the international investigation continues,

of the terror that came to the French capital.

At the Bataclan concert hall, some tried to escape the bloodshed

outside by hanging out of windows. A statement posted online from the

group calling itself Islamic State said what it calls its soldiers

were behind the attacks. The French Prime Minister has

promised an uncompromising response. TRANSLATION: Because we are at war,

we need to expect after-shocks, but we will retaliate

to destroy this terrorist army. has been identified

by French investigators as 29-year-old Frenchman

Omar Ismail Mostefai. His father and brother

are being questioned by police. And a Syrian passport

found at the Stade de France, linked to one

of the suicide bombers, was registered to a man

who Greek authorities say But Paris's chief prosecutor

says many questions remain. that three co-ordinated teams

were behind this act of barbarism. We have to find who these people

are, who are their accomplices, who commanded them, where they came

from, how they were financed. In Brussels, three men

have been arrested in connection with the attacks,

after a car rented in Belgium was found near

the Bataclan concert hall. And the images of those who died

are starting to emerge, including that of Briton

Nick Alexander, who was selling merchandise

for the American band on stage. The Government is warning

there may be more British victims. The Home Secretary, Theresa May,

will chair a second meeting of the Government's emergency Cobra

committee, as European Union leaders vow to face the terror threat

with ruthless determination. The events in Paris will dominate

the G20 summit being held in Turkey. The French President,

Francois Hollande, and will stay at home to respond

to the crisis. But the host, Turkey's

President Erdogan, is calling for an unprecedented international

effort to unite against extremism. with possession of a knife

and an air rifle, following a security alert

at Gatwick Airport yesterday. 41-year-old Jerome Chauris

is due in court today. with police closing

the north terminal for six hours. Officers carried out

a controlled explosion. The Environment Agency

has issued flood warnings across the North of England and parts

of Wales and southern Scotland. People in the Cumbrian towns

of Kendal and Egremont have been advised

to leave their homes, as hundreds of properties

are threatened with flooding. In some places,

a month's worth of rain has been forecast to fall

in 24 hours. I'll be back with the headlines

just before ten o'clock. Provides many thanks, now to the

front pages of the newspapers, in a sense pointless, because there is

only one story, but many things to say. The Sunday Times asking whether

people have been hiding among the migrants coming to Europe. They

usually have bright advertising at the top of the paper, were a lot of

money to them, but they have got rid of it, a sober, serious front page,

that is a wealthy newspaper for you. Three Isis terror squads launch

a wave of attacks in Paris, that is the Observer. The Sunday Express,

they say the ESA a are on our streets as Paris weeps. I may ask

the Prime Minister -- home secretary about that. -- in the Sun, look in

my eyes and die, harrowing accounts of what happened on the streets of

Paris. Finally, the Sunday Telegraph, the numbers of people who

have been out to Syria and come back to this country, and may be

considered suspects. What we will try to do today with the three of

you is go through the papers and tell people what is new, because a

lot of people have seen all this on the TV and will think, what can the

papers add? We are going to start with you, Amol. A nice write up in

the Sunday Telegraph about the idea that two of the potential suspects

came to the EU through Greece, one had a Syrian passport very near

him, I think it belonged to be suspect. It raises fears that, with

huge numbers of refugees coming in, 10,000 a day into Germany, there may

be other suspects coming in. As recently as October. The 3rd of

October, he came through a place called Leros. People are not just

concerned about that, but what happens to these people when they do

come in, alienate and, unemployed, second-generation immigrants are

often susceptible to violence and radicalisation. So this is another

front line in the war, they hit the immigrants, the refugees coming in

because of what is going on in Syria. Hammer them again, make

Europe more hostile. It is very easy for them, it seems, to hitch a ride

and enter Europe. Does this vindicate slightly camera and was my

stance on saying controlled immigration from the camps rather

than the Angela Merkel... Frankie have a story, how secure up European

borders are. -- Frank, you have a story. Yes, Europe's border policy

faces fresh scrutiny, and one quote stands out from the Bavarian finance

minister, who says the days of unchecked immigration cannot go on,

Paris changes everything. There is a danger of overreacting here, but a

lot of people are going to be saying, look, the idea that somebody

can just drive from Belgium to France, or Germany into France with

a car boot full of weapons completely unchecked is probably

over, or it needs to be looked at again. Britain is slightly

different, separate from this, not just because it is an island, but

because it is not part of Schengen, so in security terms we are in a

different place. Some people will not know what Schengen is,

bizarrely! You explain. It was a commitment made over 30 years ago in

Schengen in Luxembourg, I am amazed I know this... You can move from one

country to another without being stopped. The rules that apply to the

rest of the EU do not apply here. Leave aside the politics, in terms

of arms control, it means that it is harder to get powerful automatic

weapons like what has been used in Paris, it is harder to get them into

the UK. Not impossible - and there are still the Northern Ireland

connection - but it is much harder. It is one of the reasons why they

think we have not yet faced a marauding attack, what is called a

MPTA, multipronged terrorist assault. One other thing that is

clear is that there were serious intelligence failures in France.

Yes, in the Mail on Sunday, as Frank has mentioned, German police

apparently uncovered an arsenal of weapons in a car and did not tell

anti-terrorist chiefs. The heavily armed suspect was on his way to

Paris. One of the terrorist was a Parisian who had been on a watchlist

for five years but was not being monitored closely and enough before

he took part in the attack. The Greek authorities believe, as you

mentioned, one of the attackers was from Syria, posing as a refugee from

Syria. And again, we have a spokeswoman for France's ruling

Socialist Party, saying there was a failure of intelligence. I feel

slightly sorry for the Neville is intelligence... -- nebulous. When

they try to get greater powers, people say, no, it is a police

state, but when something like this happens, blame is laid at their

door, saying they did not do another. Up and they have to be

right consistently, and they do not always get recognition for when they

do it right. Frank, did the French state's powers of interception tally

with ours? Or are they different? I think they are different. They have

been very tough on terrorism, probably tougher than we were, since

1995, because they had the first recent modern wave of terrorism in

the mid 1990s with people from what was called the GIA, an Algerian

militant group that carried out bombings. They were very cross with

Britain that some of the people they were hunting sought refuge in

Britain. At the time, Britain was a bit, well, they have not broken any

laws here. In retrospect, that was a mistake, so Britain and France have

been hand in glove, Britain intelligence has people embedded in

French intelligence, and vice versa. The police have sent a team over

yesterday to work with the French. One of the problems, Amol, as a

newspaper editor, a story like this is much easier for TV, we show the

moving pictures, people screaming in the streets. But one of the jobs of

a newspaper on a day like this is to give readers a clear overview, and

you have an example of that. Fantastic, and the story broke very

late on Friday night, so lots of paper struggled to get this into

Saturday's papers. A pay rise would be deserved for the guys at the Mail

on Sunday, the graphics test is a fantastic spread on the anarchy that

unfolded, which is a strong indication of the horror that people

experienced and that it was obviously coordinated attacks. The

gunmen entering at the back of the theatre, in a bar where people were

drinking. There is a novel we have both read by Joseph O'Brien, the

Secret Agent, and he says terrorism is to be directed against the spirit

of the age. -- Josef Conrad. 9/11 was an attack against capitalism,

the Twin Towers, this was an attack against the way of life, normal

people on a Friday night in a restaurant, in cafes, going to a

rock concert. It is how terrorism works, it plays into our minds, it

could have been us, then the knock-on effect of that. Newspapers,

this is where they set themselves apart from social media because

social media as the immediacy of being able to talk about this but

not necessarily check facts. It is perspective and... And getting it

right, two stories on Friday night, what was happening on social media,

instant, and then was Jeremy Corbyn calls the mainstream media, we were

much slower, because we have to get our facts right! The Mail on Sunday

seems to have got its facts right this morning. Then there is the

question of Muslim communities in France and Belgium feeling under

siege this morning. This is the dangerous thing, that they could be

a backlash. When you have something like this, it can appeal to the sort

of base instincts of some people who will blame an entire community or an

entire religion. You know, we are at a really dangerous stage here, I

think, where migrants, Muslims, anybody is going to get blamed,

lumped in with these awful people who are condemned by those very

communities, and I think it is just so important to make that absolutely

clear, to distinguish that. Yes, the people doing these awful things are

shouting Allah hu Akbar or whatever, but they are stealing from their own

religion to do this, blackening its name. I have spent much of 25 years

of adult life or more living amongst Muslims in the Middle East, and I

have found them to be peaceful people, and I know people are going

to say, that guy is so starry eyed or whatever! No, this is fact, these

people have reverted it. You were shot by them as well. Some people

could accuse me of having some sort of Stockholm syndrome. You get all

sorts of nonsense on Twitter for that. But it is a dangerous

juncture, because it is really important that society does not get

polarised. There is a perception, I do not know if it is fair, that the

French Muslim communities are more opinionated from all suspicious of

the state than Muslim communities in Britain who are still helping the

authorities. That is partly to do with planning

regulations. You have the relics of the 1967 war of independence. You

have a very different social and geographic structure to London. It

would be great to see a mass protest by Muslims to say not in our name.

Meanwhile it is about solidarity and letting life go on. Meanwhile, the

sport... Yes, the unifying of sport. This football player lost a cousin

while the match was going on. They have set the next match will go

ahead and they are going to encourage fans to sing the French

national anthem. This is the story I love the most about sport, after the

match both sets of players were at the stadium and nobody knew what was

going on so it was all panic and the German team were advised not to go

back to their hotels, and the French team refused to leave and they all

slept on mattresses. Real solidarity. I thought that was a

lovely story. Let's talk about how well Britain is prepared, Frank.

Which is my cue to find this. The secret war in the Sunday Mirror,

basically how there are thousands of undercover operatives monitoring

suspects with police on patrol and the SAS out on the streets and so

on. This comes to the problem of not only the estimated 400 people who

have gone out from Britain to Syria and Iraq to be with Isis and come

back, but also those who are getting radicalised over the Internet, who

haven't even gone out there, who are being encouraged to carry out

attacks here. They cannot monitor everybody. We have more CCTV cameras

in Britain than anywhere else in Europe, which is one of the reasons

that keeps us slightly safer but I keep hearing warnings from the

police and others. Around 400 people have come back from Syria, that's a

lot of people to follow. One was known by the police and they just

didn't have the resources to follow this guy. They have a triage

system, and when they come back they are assessed by people from the Home

Office, what sort of risk are they? There are people who are

traumatised, they have seen horrible things, they made a mistake, it's

back to whatever job they were doing before. Do we need to hear from

them? We need them on television saying look, I've been out there, it

is not as it is painted. They need to be saying that vulnerable

people. Exactly. There are people who they don't have enough evidence

to say this person fired an AK but we think he is radicalised, and

these people are being watched round-the-clock. Finally, one of the

issues here is that after Charlie Hebdo there was this great

outpouring of grief but not very much changed in the world. Now we

have got the French president using the word war, and the question is,

is this going to be like Charlie Hebdo or like 9/11 when the world

did change? Peter Hitchens is saying if you want to beat terror, you must

calm down and think. There is an argument for that because otherwise

you just enter into this endless cycle of violence. All of this is

happening in the aftermath and the shadow cast by the Iraq war in 2003.

There is a military exhaustion in the west, and a practical point that

Isis is full of people who work for Saddam Hussein. Thank you, all

three. We now go to the weather. Two words

seems to sum it up - wet and windy. Over to Alex Deakin

in the weather studio. We will deal with the wet first of

all because it has been raining in Cumbria overnight and it is still

raining, as this picture confirmed. We have amber warnings in place, so

be prepared for further travel disruptions and continued risk of

flooding because rain will keep coming through the day today. Very

wet in Scotland, north-west England, parts of Wales and Northern

Ireland. Not much rain getting to the east but quite blustery. Further

south, windy but largely dry and pretty mild, temperatures getting to

16 Celsius. Obviously not feeling that pleasant if you are stuck with

the rain in Northern Ireland. There will be more to come overnight, and

gusty winds as this rain pushes its way further south. It will start to

turn colder, temperatures down to single figures as we start Monday

morning. The week ahead promises more of that wet and windy weather.

The rain over the next few days will be perhaps not as intense as it has

been over the weekend, so less of a risk of further flooding problems.

Come the end of the week there are signs of the first real spell of

colder weather. More on the BBC weather website.

You have been warned! So to Paris - a city now in

mourning, under massive security, and with a huge police

investigation in full swing. Emily Maitlis joins us from

near the Bataclan theatre, Emily, at least one of the

perpetrators was a French citizen? Yes, Omar Ismail Mostefai has been

identified as a French national, he lived in the town of Chartres. It's

understood he went to Syria in the winter of 2013/14 and is assumed to

have joined the ranks of Isis then. The mayor of Chartres said this

morning that he was known as a citizen of Chartres before then.

Police knew him as a radical, they blacklisted him but he wasn't a

member of any organisation that was deemed illegal here so in some

senses he was on the radar and in others he was allowed to go off on

his own will, found guilty but never imprisoned. We have details of two

other members of the group possibly. We know that a Syrian passport was

found on one of the suicide bombers in the Stade de France, and an

Egyptian passport found on another. The Greek authorities have confirmed

that the Syrian identity was somebody who had come through the

Borders in that huge stream of migrants we have seen crossing half

a million people over the course of the summer. We don't know about the

Egyptian one, but clearly this will fuel fears for people who already

believe we don't have enough control of our borders, we don't know who is

coming into our countries, or the purposes they serve. A word of

warning about that - clearly there are many false passports being used

in this chaos, particularly by extremists who may want to hide

their identities. We also don't know that the passport was belonging to

the suicide bomber it was found on. It will out an extra layer of

concern at this time to citizens and governments who feel vulnerable and

shaky about what is happening across Europe. Thank you. You are standing

in front of a sunlit scene in Paris. After the Charlie Hebdo massacres

there were huge marches through Paris, and outpouring of Patrick is,

but with the lockdown presumably that will not be case today. It

feels very different here, that people have been denied that sense

of communal mourning, of solidarity in grief. After Charlie Hebdo I was

here and there were massive demonstrations, candles, vigils, a

demonstration of defiance. Hear somebody described it to me as a

sense of unfinished business. Because of the state of emergency,

because of the lockdown, there is a state of panic that exists that

there is more to come. Until we see that strong sense of unity, it is

possible divisions can enter into society in a way that will not be

welcome at all. Thank you for joining us today.

British politicians have expressed solidarity with France,

and the Government here has promised to do anything it can to help

in the wake of the terrorist attacks.

We'll hear later from the Home Secretary, Theresa May.

But I'm joined now by the French Ambassador to the UK,

It doesn't seem very long since we were talking in the wake of Charlie

Hebdo and here we are again. I suppose the first question is

whether this is another Charlie moment. There was a huge outpouring

of grief, everybody expressed Ullah Daugherty and shocks but then in a

sense the world returned to normal, or is this more of a 9/11 moment

when the world changes? First of all, thank you for inviting me today

and I would like to thank the British government and citizens for

a demonstration of solidarity. The Queen wrote, the president, the

prime minister talked to our president, and there is all sorts of

signs of sympathy which is very important for us. While I think this

is very different from the Charlie Hebdo attacks, this is more like

9/11, it is an act of war. Those attacks have been coordinated and

plant outside, from Isis. Your president also used the phrase "an

act of war", and according to the charter an attack on one country is

an attack on all countries, do you think that can be invoked? I don't

know if there will be a response like this but it is different from

events we knew before, since it is a terrorist organisation. We don't use

the word Isis because we think it is neither is land-based, neither

state, we say Deish. Let's talk about Deish, will we go to war in a

new way? We are striking them not because of any ideology but because

they are killers, because they are planning killers in our countries

and especially in France and that is what is happening this time. Another

thing your president said is that France's borders would have to be

closed, and I wonder what that means, if people driving cars from

Belgium into France will now be stopped and checked? It is not

closed in fact but people are checked. The border checks are

important for security. Is this the end of borderless Europe? If people

can bring weapons in from the Balkans and drive from one end to

the other, a lot of people think we have got to change the way we are

doing things. We have got to strengthen our external borders and

there is a lot to be done. That is also the reason why we want to have

those hotspots properly working and doing the screening of people. Daesh

put out this swaggering statement last night but in it they said

France is the leader of the Crusader states. Because France was taking

such an aggressive stance in Syria, do you think that is why Paris

became a target? I don't agree with the word crusade of course. That is

their word, it is their fanaticism, but it is really a war again because

they are planning to kill us. They know that the US does also, but it

is more difficult because it is very far away from them. Is there a

concern in France about security failures? One of the people involved

was known to the French security forces is a dangerous man, and we

have this strange thing where the Germans picked up a car full of

Kalashnikovss on its way to Paris and did not inform the French

authorities. Vaping Cuiaba reinforced our

security since Charlie Hebdo, and we deployed a 7000 troops. -- I think

we have. But we have to increase our surveillance, we deployed 3000 extra

men, and also what is important is intelligence sharing with other

countries, and in particular with the UK, and it is very important,

and all our ministers involved are in close contacts. But you know, we

already prevented a lot of attacks, but it cannot be 100%. We will see

you again at the end of the show, but can I express our condolences

and solidarity? Thank you very much for coming in.

Jeremy Corbyn described the Paris attacks as horrific and immoral.

But he also warned against any response

which could feed a cycle of violence and hatred.

So how does Labour think the Government should react?

I'm joined now by the Shadow Justice Secretary, Lord Falconer,

who was in Cabinet at the time of the 7/7 attacks

You were there at 77, what is the Government thinking about now? How

does this operation work? Cobra meets, the relevant ministers get

together, and people listen very closely to the security... Before,

can I, on behalf of the Labour Party, express our solidarity with

friends and our condolences to those who have lost loved ones and those

who are injured? The stories coming out of friends are horrific, and the

people who suffered yesterday and today have a life sentence, and our

hearts go out to them. -- France. Your leader has taken a slightly

different view to some other people on this, he decided not to make a

foreign policy speech yesterday, but he released the text, and he said,

for the past 14 years, Britain has been at the centre of a succession

of disastrous wars that have brought devastation to large part of the

Middle East, they have increased, not diminished, the threats to our

own national security in the process. A lot of people will think

he is absolutely dead right, do you agree with that? The foreign policy

of all of the developed world has not worked. We need to think about

what we do now. But I think the key message at the moment has got to be,

first of all, everything has to be done to protect our citizens.

Secondly, everything has to be done, and the whole Labour Party agrees

with this, to bring an end to Isil. Thirdly, it has to be done in a way

that involves the international community, because it can only be

done by the international community as a whole. Do you think the wars in

Iraq, Syria and Libya have increased diminished the danger to us? Foreign

policy overall has not worked, whether or not they should have been

intervention here or not there, it is very difficult to know what the

right answer in relation to that is, but it is really important that the

international community comes together at this particular point to

deal with Isil. You have said twice that you need to defeat Isil - how?

It can only be defeated by the international community as a whole,

if possible through a UN sponsored process, but if not bad, the nation

is coming together. A key part of that has got to be solving the Syria

problem. Isil have thrived in the context of the vacuum in Syria, and

there needs to be real pressure put, if it is possible, to make sure that

Syrian issues are resolved as quickly as possible. You cannot take

Raqqa away from Isil with a few more bombs, you will need troops of some

kind on the ground. The select committees of defence and foreign

affairs have been saying that simply bombing Raqqa on its own is not

going to be the answer, you need a plan, and it has to deal with the

Syrian issue, and there needs to be... I am not urging troops on the

ground, but ultimately Isil have to be defeated, and it cannot just

be... You are a lawyer, I am wondering about the invoking of

Article five of the Nato treaty, an attack on France is an attack on

all, do you think we could sit Nato invoking that? The Prime Minister is

in Turkey talking to foreign leaders. I think Nato will be a part

of it. It is much too early to say whether it is appropriate or

possible to invoke article 5, but Nato will be part of the group of

nations looking at it. This has been one of those cataclysmic events that

will have changed a lot of people's minds about a lot of things, will it

change the mood on the Labour backbenches about any forthcoming

vote in the House of Commons on taking action in Syria? I think

everybody is now thinking about the right thing to do, to take stock,

and for the Government, they have got to talk to allies, assess how

this changes things. The Russian intervention has changed things, and

what is now required is a detailed plan to be put forward. I do not

think anyone in the political world of UK will think that what has

happened in Paris will not make people stop and think about what is

the right course now. The Labour Party does not have power at the

moment, but this Pope is in the hands of the Labour Party, whether

the country votes to go to war in Syria or not. -- but at this vote.

In that sense, the Labour Party decision on this, whether you take

the Jeremy Corbyn line, a lot of people will agree with it, saying we

must pull back, or you go ahead and attack Isil directly in Syria, that

is in the hands of the Labour Party. It is in the hands of all the

politicians of the UK. It is important we seek some degree of

unity in relation to this, because the threat that Isil pose was

demonstrated in France on Friday. We have got to get together as a nation

and work the strongest possible. You identified 7/7 at the beginning of

the interview, and the two things that come out that very strongly in

my, first of all, clear political leadership shown by Tony Blair and

by Ken Livingstone in relation to saying, we a to protect our people,

but they were both equally determined that terrorism not divide

the nation. They were both very strong in ensuring the nation did

not become anti-Muslim. Unity is incredibly important. I am not clear

what you think should happen, it seems that you are trying to

straddle two very different views, one held by Jeremy Corbyn, saying

that everything we have done in the Middle East has been a disaster, it

has made us less secure, we should get out of this and leave it, and

those people who say, no, we have not finished, we have to destroy

Isil. You cannot take both positions. It is not elegant. Jeremy

Corbyn is clear that we must do everything we possibly can to end

Isil. How that is to be done is the debate that now has to be had. And

we want to participate strongly in that debate. And what is your own

view? Britain must talk to its international allies and see what is

possible, because as you rightly said, just immediately bombing Raqqa

with the UK will not be the answer. What is required is a plan that

covers the whole of the Middle East but also deals with

covers the whole of the Middle East situation. But

covers the whole of the Middle East defeat Isil will require troops and

tanks, wherever they come from, whether Iran, Russia, America or

Britain or France or whatever, it cannot be done without people on the

ground. It cannot be done without a major international effort, that is

what needs to be looked at, and looked at as a matter of urgency. It

needs to be thought out in a way that convinces the people of

Britain, all of the people of Britain, not everybody, but there

needs to be a consensus. Lord Falconer, thank you for joining us.

Perhaps the most frightening thing about the French attacks was the

scatter of targets - restaurants, bars, concerts, a sports stadium.

How can we possibly defend ourselves against that range of targets?

London, like Paris, is an open, bustling global city -

already beginning to fill up with Christmas shoppers.

where we simply have to shoulder the risk and shrug?

will chair the Government's Cobra meeting this morning,

but before that, she joins me. Good morning.

Good morning, Andrew. First of all, the question I was asking the French

ambassador is in a sense the same question, is this a moment, after

Charlie Hebdo, where we expressed great grief and solidarity, but then

the world did not change very much, or is this like 9/11, when things

really have to change? I think our hearts are with all the French

people today, and our thoughts and prayers are with all those who have

lost loved ones over been injured or affected, victims of this terrible,

brutal attacks that have taken place in Paris. It is, of course,

important that we look at the lessons to be learned from what has

happened in Paris. Of course, we all work very closely together to ensure

that we can keep people safe and secure here in the UK. Our police,

law-enforcement, security and intelligence agencies are constantly

working, day and night, to ensure we keep people safe and secure. It

seemed relatively easy to get automatic weapons and bombing vest

and so forth into Paris. Is it as easy to get them into London? Well,

we ensure we have checks at our borders for people coming in to the

UK, but these are issues where we are always looking to see if there

is more that we need to be doing in these areas. We will be looking at

the lessons to be learnt from the Paris attacks, that is partly what

the Cobra meeting will be about, and as things develop, as we learn more

about what has happened in Paris, we need to see if there are more

lessons that we need to learn in the UK. We are now at the second-highest

threat level, but you have not raised it to the most severe, why is

that? It is a matter for a body that is not ministers, not a decision

taken by politicians. It is taken by the Joint Terrorism Analysis Centre,

and they have kept the threat level at severe. That means an attack is

highly likely, we have been at that threat level for over a year now,

and of course we operate at that threat level. We have, since the

attacks took place on Friday, there has been an increased police

presence on some street and at some events. Border Force have increased

the checks they have been making at the border, doing more screening of

freight vehicles, more checks of other vehicles as well. People going

through our ports will see a greater police and Border Force presence.

What would be the practical effect of raising it to the top level,

which I think is critical? Well, if it is, and that means a thread is

imminent, and of course these things are always based on intelligence, if

it is raised to critical, that changes the level of things like the

level of police presence on the streets. The Prime Minister used an

interesting phrase yesterday, he said the Isis threat was evolving

and changing, what does that mean? What we have seen from Daesh is that

in the past there has been a focus on individuals conducting attacks,

being encouraged to conduct attacks. What we have seen from the attack in

Paris was a coordinated, planned attack, an attack on a larger scale.

The same environment, more like the Mumbai attack, lots of individuals

fanning out across the city. Since the Mumbai attack in 2008, we have

been building the capability of police to react to a firearms attack

or attacks of that sort. We have been increasing the ability of the

emergency services to save lives in high-risk conditions. But of course,

as I said earlier, as a result of what has happened in Paris, we will

now review that and see if there are further lessons we need to learn.

The newspapers say there are SAS on the streets of Britain, is that

true? What we have done since the Mumbai attack is ensured that we

have the capability, the police have the capability, they have changed

their training so that they can go and deal with these incidents, and

there are tried and tested arrangements in place. That sounds

like a lengthy yes. There are arrangements in place to give

military support. I don't comment on the particulars of any deployments,

but we have arrangements in place where necessary for the police to

have military support. One of the alarming aspects of this is the

suggestion that at least two attackers, the killers, came through

Greece pretending to be refugees. What is this going to do to our

added you to borders generally? I know it is not your job as Home

Secretary, but is this the end of borderless Europe? That is the

Schengen arrangement that you were talking about. I think it is too

early to tell. There are reports of the sort you said. We need to ensure

the facts are correct when we look at this issue. We have been working

with other European countries in relation to strengthening euro's

external borders, which is important, but let's see how things

develop and actually work on the basis of the facts, rather than

speculation. I think this week is the first rather modest group of

refugees arriving in this country from Syria, a lot of people will be

wondering whether I could be Daesh supporters in that, have they been

properly screened? Are we sure that we're not letting in, amongst the

desperate and innocent who deserve our help, some really bad people? We

have processes in place, two levels of screening take place. We are

taking people directly from camps, working with UNHCR, who take

biometrics, they look at documents, they interview people. They do their

own process of screening against issues like war crimes and serious

criminality. Then there is a further check that is done once people are

referred to the UK, the Home Office then and takes further checks,

further biometrics are taken... Everything that can be done is being

done? We are checking people coming into the UK, and we are taking

people directly from camps, and that means we are taking some of the most

vulnerable people. One of the killers and parasport a ticket to a

football match and was very stop from getting in. -- in Paris had

bought a ticket to the football match. We have a game being played

at Wembley between England and France, what arrangements will be

made to ensure that is a safe game? The football authorities here have

been talking to the French football authorities, and they are very keen

the match goes ahead. Of course the police will be looking out the

operation they need to put in place. The Sunday Telegraph says that 700

people more or less from Britain have serious to fight Daesh, and of

them 400 have come back again. Do we have the resources to follow the

number of people? It is right that over 700 people have gone to Syria,

and those who are returning, they are looked up on a case-by-case

basis to see if action is necessary. There maybe some cases where is --

it is possible to prosecute people coming back. One of the people

involved in the French killings was known to French police but they

didn't have the resources to follow him all the time. One of the things

we have been very clear about is the resources available to us, the

budget has been protected and that is important so we can be sure our

agents have the resources they need to do their job. They are working

tirelessly to keep us safe and secure. We know of one British

casualty, there are fears there are more, can you tell me anything more

about that? One British National has sadly died in this incident. We are

still gathering information, we believe a handful of others have

been injured as a result of these terrible incidents that have taken

place. We want to make sure we get the right information before any

more information has been made public, but there is one message

that we see, British nationals have been caught up in this as well as

French nationals. We stand shoulder to shoulder with the French in

relation to this issue. We are very clear that terrorists will not win,

we will defeat them. There was a real foreboding in Paris at the

moment that there could be another attack around the corner, do you

think British people should be going there on holiday? The advice is that

yes, people are still going, but to be vigilant. It is the same message

in the UK, we want people to be vigilant and if they see any

suspicious individuals they should report it to the authorities. In

terms of the language used yesterday, President Hollande said

this is an act of war against France and David Cameron said, your fight

is our fight. What does this language mean? Are we going to war

with Isis in a new way? We face a real threat. But war is a very big

word. We are clear about the nature of the threat, and we need to work

tirelessly, and work together with the French authorities, and we have

been doing for some time now. We will build on that working together

to make sure we can defeat this terrible, perverted ideology that is

leading to these brutal attacks. I was discussing with Lord Faulkner

the suggestion that we cannot defeat Isis unless we defeat them in Syria

the ground, take Raqqah back. Work much more closely with the Russians

and the Iranians and have troops on the ground against Isis and crush

them. The Prime Minister has been very clear that if any further

action needs to be taken, it will be a matter taken to the House of

Commons, but we will only go to the House of Commons if there is a

consensus to move forward. So you depend on the Labour Party's debate

about what to do next, in a sense? The consensus in the House of

Commons is important, it is important that we are able to look

at these issues across the board and make the decisions which are right.

We are making decisions about how we operate in the UK to make sure our

police and security and intelligence agencies have the powers they need.

In a wider sense, really nothing has changed. We are in the same

situation as regards to bombing or not bombing in Syria. Daesh still

have their territory from which they are able to mount these attacks. Is

that a proportionate response to what has happened in Paris? We

should all look at our own operational responses and what we

are doing within the security agencies, and we are doing exactly

that in the UK. We work with the French authorities, we have a very

good relationship with them, we will continue to build on that. We need

also to make sure the investigation develops. It is an ongoing

investigation into what has happened, so we can identify more of

what has happened in relation to this, and then decide how we respond

to that, whether we need to change our operational response. A lot of

people will have seen absolute chaos in Europe over the refugee crisis

and great arguments about the borders, arguments between European

countries, now they see the attack in Paris. At a visceral level, they

will be thinking, do you know what, that continent is in turmoil and

chaos and we would be much better and safer out of the whole thing. Is

there an underlying anti-EU sentiments simmering as a result of

what is going on? No, I think we have been making sure we can work

together to break the link for economic migrants coming through

into Europe and getting settlement in Europe. We are working together

on that, and indeed the Prime Minister and I work in the Malton

Summit last week talking about how we can break that link. You don't

think this is beginning to look like a system out of control? We need to

make sure we are taking the steps that break that link, that we are

strengthening Europe's external borders, and the UK will be playing

its part in that. We need to return illegal migrants to their countries

of origin, and show people that making this journey to Europe does

not mean they will be able to settle in Europe. Again, a lot of people

watching will be thinking, how scared should I be? Should I attend

the big theatres I was going to do, should I attend football matches?

How real is the threat? The threat is severe. As the Prime Minister

said yesterday, people should be alert but not alarmed. The

intelligence agencies and police work tirelessly to keep us safe and

secure, but I thought the response of the French people over the

weekend to these terrible attacks was heartening. They have been

opening their doors to give people places of safety, queueing up to

give blood. They have shown the world this will not defeat them, we

stand in solidarity with them and will not be defeated by the

terrorists. Home Secretary, for now, thank you for joining us.

Now over to Steph for the news headlines.

France has become -- begun three days of national mourning after the

attacks in Paris. The state of emergency remains in place and a

huge police investigation is under way, with details beginning to

emerge about the perpetrators. The French ambassador to the UK said

security had to be reinforced. We have got to increase that of course,

we deployed 3000 extra men, and also what is important is intelligence

sharing with other countries and in particular with the UK, and it is

very important, and all our ministers involved are in close

contact. But you know we already prevented a lot of attacks but it

cannot be 100%. The Home Secretary said the

authorities here would review security arrangements in the light

of the Paris attacks and see if there were any lessons to be

learned. Theresa May confirmed there would be increased checks at borders

and increased police on the streets. She said the UK had increased the

police and intelligence services to respond to the attacks.

Let's have a look at what is coming up after this programme.

The Government is reviewing the threat here, how should Britain

react? More than 2 million adults in England are said to be dependent on

drugs and alcohol, but addiction is fiction, so says analyst Peter

Hitchens. And performance from the priests who have become Internet

sensations. The Home Secretary is still with me

and we are joined by Sylvie Bermann. We were hearing from Paris that the

great demonstrations after the Charlie Hebdo attacks were not

possible this time. I was wondering if we would seek demonstrations in

Britain instead because there was a big demonstration in Trafalgar

Square last time. Absolutely, but I would say even in Paris there were

signs of solidarity because people were queueing up to give their blood

and if it is impossible to demonstrate, I think there is some

emotion. But here in this country we are very grateful also to the Mayor

of London because he decided to illuminate iconic monuments, and

around the world, and the reason why is because it was done during

Charlie Hebdo attacks. Now it is all around the world. It must make a

difference to people in Paris sitting and watching. The last time

you were here, you made an appeal to Muslim communities in Britain to

work with the authorities to make sure you knew about people showing

signs of concern. Did that have an effect? We have seen increasing

numbers of reports coming through to the police, but the vast majority of

Muslims in this country and elsewhere around the world will be

saying these attacks are not in my name. This is a perverted ideology

that leads to these terrible terrorist attacks from taking place.

We have looked at working with people in Muslim communities in the

UK to promote the values that we share and the values we share with

French people. Thank you, both, very much indeed.

That's all we have time for this morning.

But we leave you now with a musical tribute to the people of Paris.

The French bass Nicolas Courjal is performing in the Royal Opera House

production of Carmen in London and joins us.

'..Viking, North Utsire, South Utsire, East Forties,

'southeasterly four or five, increasing six or seven,