13/03/2016 The Andrew Marr Show


13/03/2016

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The Budget's coming this week, we're told George Osborne faces

:00:00.:00:00.

an ?18 billion black hole and so the rest of us

:00:00.:00:09.

Is Tory economic optimism unravelling?

:00:10.:00:31.

The Chancellor joins me to talk cuts, taxes and Europe.

:00:32.:00:35.

All subjects as well for his Labour opposite number John McDonnell.

:00:36.:00:44.

In the Europe debate there's been a lot of loose talk about security

:00:45.:00:48.

I'm joined by one of our most successful thriller writers

:00:49.:00:53.

and ex-MI6 man who knows a thing or two about that,

:00:54.:00:56.

In the EU debate Norway is endlessly cited.

:00:57.:01:05.

We're going to finish with a northern light,

:01:06.:01:07.

Norway's new pop star Aurora. And reviewing the papers,

:01:08.:01:19.

the Guardian's new joint political editor Anushka Asthana,

:01:20.:01:23.

one of the most trenchant voices in journalism,

:01:24.:01:26.

Peter Hitchens from the Mail on Sunday and with her eye

:01:27.:01:28.

But first the news with Christian Fraser.

:01:29.:01:33.

The Chancellor, George Osborne is warning that there will be

:01:34.:01:37.

further cuts in public spending, as he prepares to deliver his

:01:38.:01:40.

Writing in the Sun on Sunday, he says the world is facing its most

:01:41.:01:45.

uncertain period since the financial crisis.

:01:46.:01:47.

Our political correspondent, Eleanor Garnier reports.

:01:48.:01:52.

The Chancellor is preparing for his eighth Budget and with three

:01:53.:01:55.

days to go, there is a warning about the

:01:56.:01:57.

dangers facing the world economy and the impact it will have

:01:58.:02:00.

In his article in the Sun on Sunday, Mr Osborne cites the slowdown

:02:01.:02:06.

in China, the fall in oil prices and political

:02:07.:02:09.

He warns that will have an impact on the UK's finances

:02:10.:02:16.

and it is the reason, he says, for more cuts in public spending

:02:17.:02:20.

so the country can live within its means.

:02:21.:02:23.

The Chancellor has promised to get the books into surplus by 2020.

:02:24.:02:28.

Only four months ago at the Autumn Statement,

:02:29.:02:31.

he sounded upbeat about the country's finances

:02:32.:02:34.

but now, with the size of the British

:02:35.:02:37.

economy much smaller than expected, it seems the Chancellor has not

:02:38.:02:41.

A British man who was jailed in the United States for providing

:02:42.:02:50.

support to the Taliban, says his actions were "naive".

:02:51.:02:53.

At the heart of Babar Ahmad's terrorism network in South London

:02:54.:02:56.

was a website, believed to be the first in English to encourage

:02:57.:02:58.

In an interview with the BBC, Mr Ahmad, who was released

:02:59.:03:02.

year, says he wants to stop young Muslims being attracted

:03:03.:03:06.

A new unified government for Libya appears a step closer

:03:07.:03:13.

The UN-backed Presidency Council, which is overseeing the process,

:03:14.:03:16.

says it now has enough internal political support to start work.

:03:17.:03:19.

It has asked the international community to stop dealing

:03:20.:03:21.

with the country's two rival parliaments.

:03:22.:03:23.

Libya has had two competing governments since 2014

:03:24.:03:26.

following the downfall of Colonel Gaddafi three years earlier.

:03:27.:03:32.

Regional elections taking place in Germany today are being seen

:03:33.:03:34.

as the first significant test of public opinion

:03:35.:03:37.

since Chancellor Merkel agreed to admit more than a million

:03:38.:03:39.

The anti-immigration AFD party is expected to make gains

:03:40.:03:44.

as voters go to the polls in three states.

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I'll be back with the headlines just before ten o'clock.

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With me to review the papers are Peter, Anushka and Linda.

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There is the Observer, not the most enthusiastic supporter of George

:04:03.:04:08.

Osborne. Osborne tax plans will hand billions to the wealthiest. The

:04:09.:04:14.

sensational Mail on Sunday front page, and Gove is nuts, Boris is

:04:15.:04:20.

after my job. It is a book by a Liberal Democrat. Sunday Times has

:04:21.:04:26.

got the story about the Palace fighting to save the Queen being

:04:27.:04:30.

dragged into the Brexit debate. And then a sensational story. Jeremy

:04:31.:04:37.

Clarkson is in favour of the United States of Europe and the European

:04:38.:04:43.

army. Who would have thought it? The Sunday Express, if Turkey is in, we

:04:44.:04:48.

are out. Turkey will be a big issue in the discussions ahead. Finally,

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President Obama is coming here. We have to start with the Mail on

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Sunday. You have to. Many of these memoirs are dull, but these memoirs

:05:05.:05:07.

are terrific. Everybody is reading them. The Prime Minister calls

:05:08.:05:13.

Michael Gove the man he introduced to politics and who he persuaded to

:05:14.:05:21.

become an MP. Gove says David Cameron is a Muppet. They are caught

:05:22.:05:26.

negotiating which city should be in the northern powerhouse. Instead of

:05:27.:05:34.

picking fruit by immigrants, we get pensioners to do it. Yes Minister

:05:35.:05:42.

looks like Tolstoy compared to this. This is the Bash Street kids versus

:05:43.:05:47.

Lord snooty in a tangle falling over each other with no principle and no

:05:48.:05:51.

idea what they are doing and loathing each other at the same

:05:52.:05:56.

time. Can we believe a word of it. This is Edward Davey, a Lib Dem

:05:57.:06:01.

minister. He has been talking to Nick Clegg and both of them are

:06:02.:06:05.

bruised about the government, so perhaps they would be saying this.

:06:06.:06:11.

Yes, they would be. But it seems to me to have a ring of truth to it. I

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will say no more. I would say this is basically the Lib Dems revenge

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and only the beginning of it. We have got a book from Nick Clegg

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later in the year. I am not surprised because during the

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election it was the Tory spot to butcher the Lib Dems, metaphorically

:06:32.:06:38.

speaking. I went to David Laws seat where his majority was overturned.

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He is probably rubbing his hands. If you get married to someone, stay

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quiet because all your secrets will come out. You have got the Sun and

:06:51.:06:57.

George Osborne's own article. It is interesting we do not get much on

:06:58.:07:00.

the budget because of the referendum. He has written this

:07:01.:07:04.

piece and he mentions his long-term economic plan. I would say he will

:07:05.:07:10.

be mentioning that again today if I was a betting woman. This is

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expectation management, talking about the economy and the

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difficulties there have been. But George Osborne will want to please

:07:19.:07:25.

voters as well this week. He may perhaps move towards raising the

:07:26.:07:28.

threshold to 40p. As they had promised. In the Autumn Statement he

:07:29.:07:34.

got Doctor Who to help him find several billion quid which

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previously did not exist. Linda, your first story is in the Observer

:07:42.:07:49.

and tax cuts for the better off. It looks like whatever spare money

:07:50.:07:53.

there may be the story here is the Resolution Foundation which is

:07:54.:07:58.

focused on low earners and they are saying that money should be used to

:07:59.:08:03.

offset welfare cuts instead of increasing the personal allowance,

:08:04.:08:07.

in other ways gear it towards the low pay rather than the high pay.

:08:08.:08:11.

That will be one of the criteria on which the budget will be judged. Is

:08:12.:08:16.

it fair and will it generate growth? But you mentioned a moment ago there

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is an element of credibility, you cannot always blame the global

:08:22.:08:26.

economy. This ?18 billion black hole, that is based on a slowdown in

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the British economy and the Chancellor will say with some

:08:31.:08:33.

justification this is what is happening in China and Middle East

:08:34.:08:37.

and the world economy is in trouble as well and we are not immune from

:08:38.:08:44.

this. Yes, that is true, but it has changed over the last few months

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since we got the last growth forecasts and how closely linked are

:08:50.:08:54.

the drivers to global experts. The global economy is not doing so well,

:08:55.:08:59.

but the main drivers for why there is a budget in the black hole is

:09:00.:09:03.

that our growth is lower than expected and not as much tax revenue

:09:04.:09:07.

has been generated and that has been going on for years. It is not

:09:08.:09:12.

related to the last few months. You need to look at the drivers and say

:09:13.:09:16.

it once we understand those, it can we tackle those with the budget? If

:09:17.:09:21.

cannot, we have to ask ourselves what do you do with the budget? It

:09:22.:09:28.

is funny when Labour say their problems are caused by the global

:09:29.:09:32.

economy, the Tories say it is your fault. But when the Tories have

:09:33.:09:37.

problems with the global economy, it is the global economy. Anushka, you

:09:38.:09:43.

have got the story by Jeremy Clarkson. Jeremy Clarkson, a raging

:09:44.:09:48.

Europhile. I read this as a write-up in the Daily Mail when they quoted

:09:49.:09:55.

him saying we should have a United States of Europe and I thought it

:09:56.:10:00.

was a spook. I was reading down and waiting for the punch line, but it

:10:01.:10:04.

turns out he is arguing quite strongly it would be better. He uses

:10:05.:10:09.

his typical language. He said it is a battle between call me Dave and

:10:10.:10:14.

bouncing Boris. He has decided to go for a corner date. He is a friend of

:10:15.:10:20.

the Prime Minister and is part of that Chipping Norton set. The paper

:10:21.:10:27.

did mention that at the bottom of the piece, suggesting that is why

:10:28.:10:30.

Jeremy Clarkson has come down this way. It is not what I expected him

:10:31.:10:34.

to do. I would have thought he would have gone for Brexit. It is not a

:10:35.:10:41.

surprise, I always thought he was a bit of a pose to being the right

:10:42.:10:47.

wing. The smoking and the cars and going down to the pub, there was not

:10:48.:10:54.

much thought in that. The idea you could reform the European Union by

:10:55.:10:57.

camping outside the Eurocrat's house and pestering them with questions,

:10:58.:11:04.

the European Union is not a democracy, not an opposition. That

:11:05.:11:11.

sounds like a future car show on Amazon. You have chosen President

:11:12.:11:17.

Obama intervening in this discussion. This is a problem for a

:11:18.:11:22.

lot of conservatives who tend to think there is a direct choice

:11:23.:11:27.

between being pro-American and pro-European. The United States has

:11:28.:11:30.

always been keen on putting Britain into some kind of superstate. For

:11:31.:11:36.

him to come across it will be a big plus for those who want that to

:11:37.:11:41.

happen. For all those pro-American Tories who have always thought it is

:11:42.:11:44.

America or Europe, it will not be comfortable. And Donald Trump will

:11:45.:11:51.

not have arrived in time. But who knows what he thinks about as

:11:52.:11:58.

opposed to what he says? HS2 is at risk of derailing, not as a project,

:11:59.:12:04.

but literally top speeds. It is a project that will cost more and

:12:05.:12:10.

more. Indeed, ?50 billion and this is the train that is trying to

:12:11.:12:15.

connect North and South, going from London to Birmingham, Manchester and

:12:16.:12:19.

Leeds. The problem according to Professor Woodward is that if it

:12:20.:12:25.

were to go as fast as accurate, it would literally derailed. I think if

:12:26.:12:31.

it was too slow down, the story is saying it would not be much faster

:12:32.:12:36.

than existing trains. It raises a bigger question about investment and

:12:37.:12:41.

infrastructure. There is no question this country needs more investment,

:12:42.:12:43.

but this is a good example of how hard it is to find a good project.

:12:44.:12:49.

Isn't the problem with HS2 it has now become an issue of political

:12:50.:12:53.

ego? The government has tied themselves to this and it will go

:12:54.:12:57.

ahead come what may, however much across. The economic crisis is a

:12:58.:13:07.

time when you could get rid of an absolutely idiotic project. But in a

:13:08.:13:14.

lot of countries they have fast trains and they do not derail and

:13:15.:13:17.

some people might argue why is it that we cannot take on a big project

:13:18.:13:22.

like this. There are rumblings about Heathrow in the same newspaper and

:13:23.:13:26.

there are going to be big infrastructure decisions that will

:13:27.:13:31.

come to a head. This is a story I am obsessed by. In terms of our

:13:32.:13:36.

economic growth we are being told there are new products around and

:13:37.:13:40.

grapheme is one of the most exciting ones, but it has been stolen by the

:13:41.:13:45.

Chinese. I am afraid so. The story is pointing out that this risk, as

:13:46.:13:58.

set by Manchester academics, and fascinating thing about this is the

:13:59.:14:01.

scientists were taking sticky tape and removing pencil lead on pencils

:14:02.:14:10.

until they found grapheme. A Taiwanese company, BDT, is partnered

:14:11.:14:14.

with Manchester University and they brought in a Chinese manufacturer

:14:15.:14:16.

and they are producing something similar. It goes to how difficult it

:14:17.:14:22.

is in higher academic research to protect intellectual property. What

:14:23.:14:29.

would it be used for? It is 200 times harder than steel and it is as

:14:30.:14:37.

flexible as rubber. You can imagine. Buildings? The uses would be

:14:38.:14:43.

incredible, but there is commercialisation and needing money

:14:44.:14:47.

to bring it to market. But this raises the question about China's

:14:48.:14:52.

lack of intellectual property protection in many areas and when it

:14:53.:14:59.

is international, collaboration, it becomes an issue.

:15:00.:15:06.

This crisis has really been humanised by photographs and we have

:15:07.:15:15.

more today. This mother, bathing her one-month-old baby using the water

:15:16.:15:19.

from a dirty portal, which will be horrifying to a lot of people and

:15:20.:15:24.

people will say what can we do about this. It is pictures like this that

:15:25.:15:28.

really bring it home that it is not just a number happening somewhere

:15:29.:15:33.

else. This is in Greece and it is really sad to see things like this

:15:34.:15:37.

taking place. You start wondering about what has caused it, and what

:15:38.:15:44.

caused it is this war in Syria. If we stop starting wars we won't see

:15:45.:15:48.

so many pictures like that. I would like to talk about the German

:15:49.:15:53.

elections. These are provincial elections but they are important.

:15:54.:15:58.

There is a new party in Europe which is a sort of German Ukip, which is

:15:59.:16:05.

making huge advances. German politics is fascinating, the German

:16:06.:16:08.

people are finally beginning to rise up against the big dominant party

:16:09.:16:13.

which has ignored what they think. They don't want to pay for the euro

:16:14.:16:18.

and they don't want to pay for the migrant crisis. They think Angela

:16:19.:16:22.

Merkel was completely crazy when she invited them all in and Germany is

:16:23.:16:26.

in a long-term political crisis about this which we have not seen

:16:27.:16:31.

the end of. We have however seen the end of the paper review.

:16:32.:16:35.

Fascinating, all-encompassing, thank you very much indeed.

:16:36.:16:38.

After five decades as one of the world's top thriller writers,

:16:39.:16:43.

and with over 70 million books sold, Frederick Forsyth has decided

:16:44.:16:46.

the time has come to put his pen down and take up the cause he has

:16:47.:16:50.

long championed, getting Britain out of the EU.

:16:51.:16:52.

His stance, he says, can be summed up simply in just five

:16:53.:16:55.

words: "I want my country back".

:16:56.:16:56.

Before we get onto the details, you have been a long-term Eurosceptic,

:16:57.:17:05.

does this go right back to the 1970s? Before that. When I was with

:17:06.:17:13.

Reuters, I was sent to Brussels in 1962, which was... I'm not even

:17:14.:17:19.

going to ask what you are doing. I was three years old! I became

:17:20.:17:25.

interested then and I have kept a wary eye ever since. Back then it

:17:26.:17:29.

was a common market that we joined, since then it has transformed itself

:17:30.:17:35.

into the EU. Just very basically, I don't believe this is about trade at

:17:36.:17:40.

all. We are always going to trade with Europe, we always have and

:17:41.:17:52.

always will. The diversion at the moment is a con trick because it is

:17:53.:17:57.

not about economics, it is about clashing governmental systems.

:17:58.:18:06.

Europe is a non-democratic commission of bureaucrats basically,

:18:07.:18:10.

it is a bureaucracy. You can have one system governing or the other,

:18:11.:18:14.

you cannot have both and I prefer our system. I called you earlier on

:18:15.:18:27.

an MI6 man, not an agent. We cannot ask about whether we would be more

:18:28.:18:34.

or less secure in terms of intelligence, but you are still in

:18:35.:18:37.

touch with that world, what do you think? An example recently is the

:18:38.:18:45.

discovery of this enormous list of Isil terrorists. Their CVs, it is

:18:46.:18:55.

huge. Like so many things it was an Anglo-American discovery, it had

:18:56.:18:59.

nothing to do with the. EU Therefore if we weren't in the EU I don't

:19:00.:19:04.

think there would be any damage to our security system. We would

:19:05.:19:12.

cooperate as we always do. So we cooperate with individual countries

:19:13.:19:16.

but there is no EU organisation that helps out MI6? If you put a

:19:17.:19:22.

classified document in front of the EU, that is 27 nations, it would be

:19:23.:19:30.

within our opponents' hands within the hour. You have got to trust

:19:31.:19:33.

people you collaborate with in that world. One of the ironies is people

:19:34.:19:40.

are saying Putin would like to see us out of the EU but the Russians

:19:41.:19:46.

are potentially high up on our list of enemies. A newly resurgent

:19:47.:19:55.

Kremlin is a worry. On the other hand, in some areas like Isil we

:19:56.:20:02.

have common interest because they have problems with Chechnya and some

:20:03.:20:09.

of the most lethal ices agents are in fact Chechnya and so we could

:20:10.:20:14.

cooperate in that area but otherwise they have an anti-British agenda.

:20:15.:20:20.

How concerned would you be about Turkey joining the EU? It is a major

:20:21.:20:27.

security problem because it is the big land bridge between the terror

:20:28.:20:31.

zone and Europe. And your most recent novels were about Islamist

:20:32.:20:37.

terrorism and the Far East. I touched on that subject twice, and

:20:38.:20:42.

the second time, yes, was more or less... I chose a Somali terror

:20:43.:20:52.

group. It is not just Isil but many subordinate ones are pledging

:20:53.:20:56.

loyalty to Isil and Isil are setting up in Libya so it is a long haul

:20:57.:21:00.

fight. You have been a long-term supporter of the monarchy, what do

:21:01.:21:04.

you think about the Queen being dragged into this? Do you have some

:21:05.:21:09.

sympathy with Buckingham Palace? We are talking about a lunch that took

:21:10.:21:14.

place about five years ago. I happen to think it wasn't the source, if it

:21:15.:21:19.

wasn't an invention by the media, in fact it didn't come from any of the

:21:20.:21:26.

other notable guests that day. Least of all, Paul Michael Gove. You have

:21:27.:21:31.

given up novels but you haven't given up writing, you are writing

:21:32.:21:37.

lyrics. What is your new project. I wrote a 16 line poem which became a

:21:38.:21:43.

lyric, it was put to a brilliant piece of music, freshly composed and

:21:44.:21:55.

sung by Melissa, and it is called FALLEN SOLDIER. It is being

:21:56.:22:02.

performed at the Royal Opera house, is that right? No, I don't think so,

:22:03.:22:11.

but Melissa does sing at the Royal Opera house. Thank you very much for

:22:12.:22:14.

joining me this morning. Would we get more

:22:15.:22:16.

traditional British weather? The man with the answers is Chris

:22:17.:22:21.

Fawkes. We are going to get our winds coming

:22:22.:22:33.

in from the European direction, giving a European flavour to the

:22:34.:22:39.

weather over the next few days. Some mild spells of sunshine, but we are

:22:40.:22:43.

starting the day with some dense fog patches across this part of the

:22:44.:22:47.

world, visibility down to 13 metres in places, but it will shrivel and

:22:48.:22:52.

we are having plenty of sunshine coming across England and Wales

:22:53.:22:56.

through the rest of the Day today. Northern Ireland staying quite

:22:57.:23:02.

cloudy. It will be warm in the spring sunshine, temperatures at the

:23:03.:23:06.

highest could reach 15 degrees across parts of the Highlands of

:23:07.:23:12.

Scotland, and around the Edinburgh area, but for most temperatures into

:23:13.:23:16.

double figures. A cool breeze blowing around the coastline of East

:23:17.:23:22.

Anglia and the Kent coast. Overnight tonight, you will see more mist and

:23:23.:23:27.

fog patches, across the web is Midlands and the north too. We will

:23:28.:23:33.

have frost developing as well, temperatures down to minus in Wales.

:23:34.:23:39.

Through the week ahead we are looking at dry conditions, high

:23:40.:23:42.

pressure firmly in charge for the whole of the week and that means

:23:43.:23:46.

many will see sunny spells but by day we could see issues with mist

:23:47.:23:54.

and fog. Don't say that this programme brings

:23:55.:23:56.

you know good news! John McDonnell, Labour's Shadow

:23:57.:23:59.

Chancellor, is the second most important person in the Labour Party

:24:00.:24:03.

after Jeremy Corbyn. He famously joked, at least

:24:04.:24:05.

I think it was a joke, that his hobby was fomenting

:24:06.:24:07.

the overthrow of capitalism. This week he's relaunching Labour's

:24:08.:24:10.

economic policy with iron discipline at its heart that either means more

:24:11.:24:12.

Tory austerity or it You actually said fomenting the

:24:13.:24:22.

overthrow of capitalism as if it was a kind of beer. It was a joke on

:24:23.:24:29.

brewing! I have always wondered what kind of socialist you would see

:24:30.:24:33.

yourself as being, a Marxist for instance? I am a socialist in the

:24:34.:24:39.

tradition of the Labour Party which goes back to William Morris, it

:24:40.:24:43.

includes Nye Bevan, that whole history of socialism within our

:24:44.:24:47.

country, British socialism. You are quoted today as saying you are not

:24:48.:24:52.

really a Labour Party person, it is a vehicle and when it is not useful

:24:53.:24:59.

you hop off. That was a debate about why to join the Labour Party. I was

:25:00.:25:03.

saying the Labour Party I think is the best organisation for

:25:04.:25:08.

progressive change in this country. Overthrow of capitalism, would you

:25:09.:25:12.

like a world in which we were not ultimately governed by a capitalist

:25:13.:25:17.

system? I want to transform capitalism so we have a fairer

:25:18.:25:22.

society, more equal distribution of wealth and democratic society as

:25:23.:25:26.

well. Would you see it as a dynamic system that produces wealth and

:25:27.:25:31.

innovation but has got to be tamed by politics rather than something

:25:32.:25:38.

that has to be overthrown? I think create a new society. The Labour

:25:39.:25:41.

Party is about a radical transformation that makes society

:25:42.:25:46.

fairer, more democratic but based on the sustainable economy because we

:25:47.:25:50.

know so much more about climate change now. Prosperity needs to be

:25:51.:25:55.

shared better. You really launched the Labour economic strategy, and

:25:56.:26:02.

you put a big importance not on austerity but a balanced iron

:26:03.:26:05.

discipline from the New Labour Chancellor if that comes about. A

:26:06.:26:09.

lot of people thought it sounded a lot like Gordon Brown and Ed Balls.

:26:10.:26:14.

It is a wider tradition than just Labour's fiscal ability. We have had

:26:15.:26:25.

two long. Like the last six years where we have had fiscal rules that

:26:26.:26:29.

have not been met, that sort of thing, so I am trying to encourage a

:26:30.:26:35.

better economic debate. With regards to the Labour Party, when we go back

:26:36.:26:39.

to government we will reduce debt and make sure we are supervised

:26:40.:26:46.

independently. We will invest and grow the economy. How is that

:26:47.:26:51.

different? You attacked Ed Balls at the time for austerity light and

:26:52.:26:57.

caving into neoliberalism, how is this different? Three main issues.

:26:58.:27:04.

There will be a better discipline, we will be independently supervised

:27:05.:27:08.

by the Office for Budget Responsibility. Secondly, I have

:27:09.:27:12.

introduced a rule that where monetary policy is not working, you

:27:13.:27:16.

make sure fiscal policy is active and what is happening across Europe

:27:17.:27:21.

at the moment as well. Thirdly, this is about investment for the

:27:22.:27:27.

long-term in skills new technology. We are on the same page as the

:27:28.:27:32.

wealth creators in society, but when we grow our economy that prosperity

:27:33.:27:36.

has got to be shared. We have a really unequal society at the

:27:37.:27:40.

moment. I want to come onto that but you place a lot of emphasis on

:27:41.:27:47.

investment. Investment by a Labour government in housing, new

:27:48.:27:51.

technology and so forth. Is there an upper limit to that? Do you have a

:27:52.:28:00.

figure? The OECD is saying that we should be spending about 3% of our

:28:01.:28:06.

GDP. What George Osborne is doing is reducing that to about 1.4 and that

:28:07.:28:12.

is unacceptable. I want to make sure we invest in the long-term, then we

:28:13.:28:19.

can withstand the global headwinds. I would make sure it is the wealth

:28:20.:28:24.

creators, the business and entrepreneurs who represent the

:28:25.:28:27.

workers themselves who are the ones who advise government. If you take

:28:28.:28:35.

you -- UK plc, you would invest in the machinery. I am starting to feel

:28:36.:28:45.

dazed at this point. Is this the John McDonnell I knew about for so

:28:46.:28:51.

long or have you changed? I have always been like this. The Labour

:28:52.:28:57.

Party, the secret is in the name. We are the representatives of the

:28:58.:29:02.

wealth creators, that has always been the Labour Party tradition. I

:29:03.:29:08.

am restoring Labour to that tradition. Let's return to

:29:09.:29:11.

investment then. There was a difficulty about what is investment

:29:12.:29:16.

and what is not, so for instance would you regard paying higher wages

:29:17.:29:20.

to public sector workers as investment? I have been speaking to

:29:21.:29:25.

the CBI, the trade of commerce, they are saying three things. You need

:29:26.:29:32.

investment in skills, in infrastructure, and in new

:29:33.:29:36.

technology. If we do that, we will get the high skilled jobs that pay

:29:37.:29:40.

the high wages. Wages will follow the investment and in that way, that

:29:41.:29:46.

shares the prosperity. But you have promised higher wages for public

:29:47.:29:51.

sector workers across the board. My question is, is that investment or

:29:52.:29:56.

current spending? It flows from investment. So you can borrow to do

:29:57.:30:05.

that? All governments borrow. Let's take the analogy of the firm, you

:30:06.:30:17.

invest in technology. Does that mean for instance you want to give junior

:30:18.:30:22.

doctors higher wages? Or give teachers higher wages? You can say

:30:23.:30:29.

this is borrowing for investment. No, you borrow for investment to

:30:30.:30:33.

grow the economy. Then there are more taxes paid and as a result you

:30:34.:30:37.

can afford public services. It is that long-term patient investment

:30:38.:30:43.

that we need. I have set up this economic advisory Council, who are

:30:44.:30:46.

advising us on this. There is Mr Arafat gets. No, he is

:30:47.:31:07.

doing one of our lecturers. He is somebody you admire and he admires

:31:08.:31:13.

you. He is stimulating the debate. He has said the Euro has been an

:31:14.:31:17.

economic terrorism to his country and there is no democracy in

:31:18.:31:21.

Brussels and working class people in Greece have been hammered by what

:31:22.:31:25.

has happened and yet the Labour Party is in favour of staying inside

:31:26.:31:31.

the machine. I would not use his language. We have always argued to

:31:32.:31:35.

stay out of the Euro and that was the right decision. We are saying we

:31:36.:31:40.

need to reform the European Union, but we need to stay in and make sure

:31:41.:31:44.

the reform is more transparent and democratic. But you can report it

:31:45.:31:50.

because you look across Europe and in some case the right and the far

:31:51.:31:55.

right are on the march in France and Germany and in Eastern Europe and in

:31:56.:31:59.

Scandinavia. Europe is moving sharply to the right and the borders

:32:00.:32:03.

are going up. You cannot make it into a social democratic grid. That

:32:04.:32:11.

is why we are meeting with social democratic parties across Europe to

:32:12.:32:15.

present an alternative agenda. After this budget I will be going on a

:32:16.:32:19.

tour around the country arguing for that agenda. It will be reform

:32:20.:32:25.

making sure we have prosperity across Europe shared by all. The

:32:26.:32:30.

transatlantic trade deal you regard this as dangerous. Why? It has been

:32:31.:32:38.

negotiated secretly and it has the potential of overriding the

:32:39.:32:41.

decisions of democratically elected governments. We have to stay within

:32:42.:32:46.

Europe to make sure that all the trade treaties negotiated are in the

:32:47.:32:52.

interests of all. If we were not in Europe, we would not need to worry

:32:53.:32:57.

about it. It is a lot of things, the political direction of Europe, the

:32:58.:33:03.

effects of the Euro, the effects of neoliberalism and the banking system

:33:04.:33:07.

inside the EU, you are instinctively against the EU. This is only

:33:08.:33:14.

tactical. It is a matter of principle that we need to solve

:33:15.:33:17.

these major global problems that we are facing like global climate

:33:18.:33:23.

change and migration and instability. We need to do that

:33:24.:33:27.

through international cooperation and the European Union gives us that

:33:28.:33:31.

opportunity. Your party does not sound like you really care about

:33:32.:33:36.

Europe. I will be on the tour after this week. I think Alan Johnson has

:33:37.:33:42.

done a great campaign up until now. You will see Jeremy Corbyn and the

:33:43.:33:45.

rest of the Shadow cabinet going around the country arguing for

:33:46.:33:51.

people's Europe, one in which prosperity is shared by all, based

:33:52.:33:56.

on democracy and transparency. Thank you for joining us.

:33:57.:33:57.

Back at the time of the Autumn Statement the Chancellor told us

:33:58.:34:01.

he'd built a strong economy, Britain's makers were on the march

:34:02.:34:04.

and he'd found a whopping ?27 billion to reverse his

:34:05.:34:07.

And he was widely assumed then to be the next Tory leader.

:34:08.:34:10.

What a difference a few months makes.

:34:11.:34:12.

Now we're told the economy is still fragile and vulnerable

:34:13.:34:15.

to a dangerous cocktail of new threats and ?18 billion pound

:34:16.:34:17.

black hole in the public finances and deeper cuts are coming.

:34:18.:34:23.

Welcome. Things have gone badly wrong, haven't they? The world is in

:34:24.:34:31.

a much more difficult and dangerous place. My message in this budget is

:34:32.:34:36.

that the world is a more uncertain place than at any time since the

:34:37.:34:39.

financial crisis and we need to act now so we do not pay later. I need

:34:40.:34:45.

to find additional savings, equivalent to 50p in every ?100 by

:34:46.:34:50.

the end of the decade, because we have to live within our means to

:34:51.:34:54.

stay secure and make Britain fit for the future. When people talk about

:34:55.:34:59.

an ?18 billion black hole, that is pre-active. It has been revised of

:35:00.:35:06.

our nominal GDP. Last year inflation was lower. It is a real number? It

:35:07.:35:14.

is a real number because all around the world and in big emerging

:35:15.:35:18.

countries like China, Brazil and Russia, people are looking at

:35:19.:35:21.

economic prospects and thinking they are not as rosy as they work a few

:35:22.:35:28.

months ago. But in context Britain is still forecast to have the

:35:29.:35:32.

strongest growing economy of any of the major economies in the world

:35:33.:35:35.

with a record number of people in work. Eight years ago when we had

:35:36.:35:40.

the financial crash, Britain was one of the worst prepared countries for

:35:41.:35:45.

what happened. This time Britain is one of the best prepared. But we are

:35:46.:35:50.

not immune. It does not mean we cannot take action to make sure we

:35:51.:35:56.

are well prepared. This will mean further cuts? We will have to make

:35:57.:36:03.

further savings, the equivalent of 50p in every ?100 the government

:36:04.:36:06.

spends towards the end of the decade. What is the alternative? To

:36:07.:36:13.

look at our own economy and see it is not as productive as we would

:36:14.:36:17.

like them to give up? I want to roll up our sleeves and make sure we are

:36:18.:36:21.

living within our means and making our country is more productive and

:36:22.:36:25.

our schools and infrastructure is better and our taxes are more

:36:26.:36:31.

competitive. Where will the cuts come? We can find those savings, it

:36:32.:36:36.

is not a huge amount in the scheme of things and you can do it by

:36:37.:36:40.

looking where you can get the best value for money and through

:36:41.:36:47.

efficiency. Even by paying for the non-protected departmental budgets?

:36:48.:36:52.

We have set out a plan that enables us to invest in the public's

:36:53.:36:58.

priorities and our priorities like the health service and science,

:36:59.:37:02.

education and infrastructure and defence, while at the same time not

:37:03.:37:06.

spending more than the country can afford. Ultimately the people who

:37:07.:37:10.

pay the price, if you spend more than you can afford, are the people

:37:11.:37:15.

of this country. There are people living in this country who do not

:37:16.:37:19.

have the security that comes when the country is in charge of its

:37:20.:37:24.

finances. You are taking money out of the pockets of some of the most

:37:25.:37:29.

vulnerable people, disabled people, through PIP reductions, those are

:37:30.:37:34.

the people who can least afford to pay the sacrifice, the weakest, and

:37:35.:37:37.

you are changing the rules to hit them. Is that your priority? I do

:37:38.:37:46.

not accept that at all. What do you not accept? We are increasing

:37:47.:37:50.

spending on disabled people and they get higher payments than they did

:37:51.:37:54.

under the last Labour government. We are increasing the support for

:37:55.:38:01.

disabled people. 640,000 people will be affected by PIP reductions. PIP

:38:02.:38:06.

payments were introduced to give those who really needed to help more

:38:07.:38:11.

help and more support. But they are getting less. We are giving more

:38:12.:38:16.

support to people with mental health conditions which did not happen

:38:17.:38:20.

before. You have to make sure it is properly managed so the money goes

:38:21.:38:24.

to those who need it most and that budget is going up. What Iain Duncan

:38:25.:38:29.

Smith has announced is we have to look at some of the way the points

:38:30.:38:33.

are awarded to make sure that it goes to those who are most

:38:34.:38:38.

vulnerable. According to your own figures, you are saving ?1.2 billion

:38:39.:38:43.

by cutting payments to disabled people. Hang on, the budget is going

:38:44.:38:49.

up. It will not be going up as much as it was forecast. Controlling

:38:50.:38:54.

welfare bills is part of what you need to do if you are a secure

:38:55.:38:58.

country and able to confront the problems. This all happens at the

:38:59.:39:05.

same time as you are raising thresholds to help middle-class

:39:06.:39:10.

taxpayers and it seems very callous. We are providing more support to

:39:11.:39:13.

disabled people and we back working people. Times are tough, the fiscal

:39:14.:39:18.

situation is difficult because of what is going on in the world and

:39:19.:39:24.

all Western countries including our own are not productive enough. But

:39:25.:39:28.

we can take action by making our economy more protective --

:39:29.:39:34.

productive, and making us more skilled and investing in

:39:35.:39:38.

infrastructure. At the moment because of world oil price of petrol

:39:39.:39:43.

is very cheap, do you think motorists have the shoulders to take

:39:44.:39:48.

another bit of taxation? I will set out the decisions on duties in the

:39:49.:39:55.

budget. It is a friendly question. It would not be a very friendly

:39:56.:40:00.

response if I started telling you my budget on the Andrew Marr programme.

:40:01.:40:04.

I will save it for the House of Commond. I will set out the tax rate

:40:05.:40:12.

in the budget on fuel duty. We had a manifesto commitment there and we

:40:13.:40:15.

pencilled in fuel duty going forward. But what I would say is

:40:16.:40:20.

every time we can help our economy be more competitive, we will, and

:40:21.:40:26.

that is why we have cut business taxes and we have helped working

:40:27.:40:28.

people by raising the personal allowance. And you will carry on

:40:29.:40:36.

doing that? It is very clear in the manifesto, it was a promise to the

:40:37.:40:39.

British people, that we would raise the personal allowance to ?12,500,

:40:40.:40:48.

to raise the high rate threshold to ?50,000. We will deliver on the

:40:49.:40:53.

manifesto, but in each judgment you make in a budget, you have got to

:40:54.:40:58.

see what money you have got available and what you can afford to

:40:59.:41:01.

do and the truth is we are in difficult economic times. We should

:41:02.:41:07.

not be looking for tax cuts? What you will see in the budget is a

:41:08.:41:12.

government determined to confront Britain's long-standing problems

:41:13.:41:15.

with productivity, to make Britain more secure in the face of a

:41:16.:41:20.

difficult world economy. Look at our record. We took difficult decisions,

:41:21.:41:26.

you asked me over many years perfectly legitimate question is

:41:27.:41:29.

whether our judgment was right, and Britain today has the

:41:30.:41:33.

fastest-growing economy in the Western world. We can stay number

:41:34.:41:37.

one if we get ahead of the curve, redouble our efforts. Meanwhile, you

:41:38.:41:45.

have broken your own welfare cap and you have made numerous series of

:41:46.:41:51.

U-turns on things from the Google tax to other things, it is a pretty

:41:52.:41:56.

ropey record. We have introduced a national living wage, and

:41:57.:42:00.

apprenticeship levy to skill up millions of Britons. On the big

:42:01.:42:06.

picture you did not eliminate the deficit because you did not get the

:42:07.:42:10.

growth you thought you would. The big picture is people look at

:42:11.:42:14.

Britain and they see a country getting its act together. If you

:42:15.:42:18.

look at what we do as a government, I think we take big, radical

:42:19.:42:23.

reforming steps and we have got a small majority. We do not win every

:42:24.:42:28.

vote. You can either shut up shop and do nothing and that is not me as

:42:29.:42:34.

a politician. If people want a politician who is going to sit here

:42:35.:42:38.

and talk away and not doing anything, they can get someone else.

:42:39.:42:42.

I want to make lasting changes to improve the living standards of

:42:43.:42:47.

working people in this country. Do you regret the sweetheart deal with

:42:48.:42:52.

Google? I was faced with a situation where we were not raising any money

:42:53.:42:55.

with this company and now we are raising money. I think that is a

:42:56.:43:02.

success. Of course, people want more money to be raised from those

:43:03.:43:07.

companies. I understand that, but we have introduced the tax changes that

:43:08.:43:12.

will make that happen. The people who criticise me, often Labour

:43:13.:43:16.

politicians, they sat in chairs like this for 13 years and did absolutely

:43:17.:43:22.

nothing. I think the steps we had taken will make sure our tax system

:43:23.:43:27.

is fit for the modern age when, frankly, the Internet and the global

:43:28.:43:31.

trading system is different than it was 20 or 30 years ago and our tax

:43:32.:43:36.

system needs to change. You have talked about this being an unstable

:43:37.:43:43.

and dangerous change -- world, possibly being on the edge of

:43:44.:43:46.

another financial crisis with lower than expected growth in China, etc.

:43:47.:43:54.

One of those threats is Brexit. Was it a good idea to hold a referendum?

:43:55.:44:00.

It is absolutely right for Britain to resolve this decades long

:44:01.:44:04.

ambiguity about our relationship with the EU. For me we are an

:44:05.:44:09.

outward looking, free trading country that engages with the world

:44:10.:44:14.

and shapes our planet and its destiny. I am not for us pulling up

:44:15.:44:18.

the drawbridge and unilaterally withdrawing. I hear people say, I

:44:19.:44:25.

want Britain to be like Switzerland or in Norway, or Canada. I want

:44:26.:44:30.

Britain to be like Great Britain, engaged in the world and championing

:44:31.:44:34.

free trade and not withdrawing from Europe, but shaping Europe to our

:44:35.:44:39.

national interest. I watched you going around the world and selling

:44:40.:44:43.

Britain and you go to America and China because they are growing.

:44:44.:44:50.

Europe is flat on its back. We see a rise in political extremism and we

:44:51.:44:54.

see barbed wire going back up, we see the eurozone in meltdown. Then

:44:55.:44:59.

we are told it is safer to stay shackled to that and it is to get

:45:00.:45:03.

out. That sounds completely barking, frankly. I am all for Britain

:45:04.:45:12.

connecting itself to China, to North America, to Brazil and the like. I

:45:13.:45:17.

am all for this. We do not do enough of that. But we have to recognise we

:45:18.:45:25.

are part of the European continent. We are off it. If you ask most

:45:26.:45:29.

schoolchildren which continent the United Kingdom is in there with a

:45:30.:45:36.

Europe. It is an island. We learned to our cost that we are deeply

:45:37.:45:40.

affected by what happens just across the English Channel. If you look at

:45:41.:45:47.

Britain... And it is going very badly at the moment. Of course, for

:45:48.:45:51.

all Western democracies at the moment, there are all sorts of

:45:52.:45:57.

populist movements. What is the best response? In my view it is to have a

:45:58.:46:02.

sober and serious assessment of the finance. I have been the Finance

:46:03.:46:06.

Minister for the last six years and I take a serious assessment of the

:46:07.:46:10.

evidence and an exit would create an economic shock, it would cost jobs,

:46:11.:46:16.

increase prices and it will represent a leap in the dark. There

:46:17.:46:21.

is a bigger question about who do we want to be? It is difficult to think

:46:22.:46:27.

of any country in the world that has had a greater influence on the

:46:28.:46:30.

history of the world and the United Kingdom. People say there is the big

:46:31.:46:33.

table, we are walking away from it. Because actually it is a continent

:46:34.:46:44.

mired in crisis and we could have, as Boris Johnson has said, we could

:46:45.:46:50.

have a deal like the Canadian deal, 99% of their trade is tariff free,

:46:51.:46:57.

we don't -- they don't accept the free movement of people, we could

:46:58.:47:06.

have a deal like that. Three quarters of our economy is in

:47:07.:47:09.

services and they don't have a services deal. Every country is

:47:10.:47:16.

different, but if we exited EU, are you really saying as Chancellor you

:47:17.:47:19.

couldn't negotiate a decent free trade deal with the rest of the EU?

:47:20.:47:24.

We would of course try to do the best record, but you had the German

:47:25.:47:27.

finance minister on this programme last week and he could not have been

:47:28.:47:32.

clearer, which is the only way you can get access to the single market

:47:33.:47:39.

is that you accept the free movement of people. Why would you want to do

:47:40.:47:43.

those things and have no control of the rules and how the budget is

:47:44.:47:47.

spent. It seems to me we have the best of both worlds, we are not in

:47:48.:47:52.

the Schengen border, we are not in the euro, but we do have access to

:47:53.:47:57.

that free trade single market. And in return for that we have free

:47:58.:48:03.

movement of people. You would have free movement of people if you did

:48:04.:48:06.

the kind of deal Switzerland and Norway does. But not Canada. I don't

:48:07.:48:16.

want us to be Canada, I want us to be Great Britain. In the end of this

:48:17.:48:20.

is not some political game, this is the biggest decision facing this

:48:21.:48:23.

country for 50 years and the people who will be affected by that

:48:24.:48:27.

decision are not you and me, we will be long gone from the political

:48:28.:48:33.

stage, it will be the hill farmer in Wales, the call centre worker in

:48:34.:48:37.

Bournemouth, their future depends on an open and engaged Britain. This is

:48:38.:48:44.

about their future. So we have got to look even 30 years ahead when we

:48:45.:48:48.

think about this decision, and then we turn to Turkey which is getting

:48:49.:48:52.

visa free access and will almost certainly become a member of the EU.

:48:53.:48:59.

70 million people inside the EU, that frightens many people. Lots of

:49:00.:49:06.

people can move through the Turkish border into the EU. That is the kind

:49:07.:49:11.

of risk we have got to think about, isn't it? It is a perfect example of

:49:12.:49:17.

why it is in our interests to engage with countries like Turkey but we do

:49:18.:49:21.

not have to give access to Turkish citizens coming to the UK, they will

:49:22.:49:26.

still require visas, and that is because we are not part of the

:49:27.:49:31.

Schengen... People have to assume that kind of thing will happen. That

:49:32.:49:37.

is entirely decision for the British House of Commons. People talk about

:49:38.:49:40.

sovereignty, the House of Commons makes these decisions accountable to

:49:41.:49:44.

the British people. We are sovereign, but in my view and in the

:49:45.:49:48.

interests of the British people, what we want is to have control over

:49:49.:49:54.

our destiny. You do that by engaging with the world, not running away.

:49:55.:50:00.

Are you suggesting that if Turkey joined the EU we could keep Turks

:50:01.:50:05.

out of the UK? Firstly we had a veto over whether Turkey joins, so we can

:50:06.:50:12.

set conditions and we made it clear we will not accept new member states

:50:13.:50:16.

to the European Union and give them unfettered free movement of people

:50:17.:50:20.

unless their economies are much closer in size and prosperity two

:50:21.:50:25.

hours. So Britain would block Turkey's accession? We made it clear

:50:26.:50:33.

that they would only have free movement of people if the economy

:50:34.:50:39.

was of a similar prosperity. You are saying that for the foreseeable

:50:40.:50:43.

future Britain would block Turkish accession to the EU? As I say, I

:50:44.:50:48.

think Turkey is an incredibly important ally, and it is important

:50:49.:50:54.

it has close relations with the European Union. I don't think

:50:55.:50:57.

Turkish accession to the EU is on the cards any time soon. We could if

:50:58.:51:03.

we wanted to veto it, we have also made it very clear we will not allow

:51:04.:51:08.

new countries to join that are much poorer and have free movement of

:51:09.:51:12.

people as a result of that. That has been one of the big problems. Our

:51:13.:51:16.

economy has been successful and it has attracted people to our country.

:51:17.:51:23.

You mentioned sovereignty, I thought one of the most eloquent expositions

:51:24.:51:27.

of the case for Brexit was by Michael Gove who said that they

:51:28.:51:31.

after day every minister sees across their desk thinks they would like to

:51:32.:51:37.

do and they are told no, Brussels says no. British ministers do not

:51:38.:51:40.

have complete control over their own departments because the bureaucratic

:51:41.:51:45.

system intervenes. Don't you occasionally think I would like to

:51:46.:51:54.

smells sweet freedom in my nostrils? Freedom is being able to control

:51:55.:51:58.

your environment and being able to do what you want to do to protect

:51:59.:52:02.

your people and I think we have more freedom, more control over our world

:52:03.:52:07.

by being part of the European Union. This point about sovereignty, we are

:52:08.:52:11.

engaged in a sovereign act as a nation, we are making a decision

:52:12.:52:15.

about whether we want to be in the European Union or not. We are

:52:16.:52:21.

sovereign, the question is what do we choose to do with our

:52:22.:52:25.

sovereignty. We choose to be part of Nato, if someone attacks and other

:52:26.:52:28.

Nato country we have got to go to war against that country. That is in

:52:29.:52:33.

some sense and abrogation of sovereignty but we are safer and we

:52:34.:52:38.

have more freedom as we are part of Nato. According to the papers the

:52:39.:52:43.

Prime Minister thinks Boris Johnson is after his job, do you agree?

:52:44.:52:49.

There's a string of these memoirs from Lib Dem ministers and I work

:52:50.:52:52.

hard to make sure they are writing their memoirs, I don't really

:52:53.:52:58.

recognise much of what they said. I don't think it is the greatest

:52:59.:53:04.

revelation in human history to discover that Boris Johnson is

:53:05.:53:08.

interested in a job in Government. In the Prime Minister's job. You

:53:09.:53:10.

would have to ask him. Now over to Christian

:53:11.:53:15.

for the news headlines. The Chancellor, George Osborne

:53:16.:53:23.

is warning that there will be further cuts in public

:53:24.:53:25.

spending as he prepares Writing in the Sun on Sunday,

:53:26.:53:27.

he says the world is facing its most uncertain period since

:53:28.:53:32.

the financial crisis. The Chancellor of the Exchequer has

:53:33.:53:40.

warned that he will have to find further cuts in public spending,

:53:41.:53:43.

when he delivers his He told this programme that

:53:44.:53:45.

in the face of global economic uncertainty, it was necessary

:53:46.:53:48.

to 'act now so we don't pay later'. He said the reductions

:53:49.:53:51.

were equivalent to 50p in every ?100 of government expenditure -

:53:52.:53:54.

which he said was 'not a huge amount The Shadow Chancellor John McDonnell

:53:55.:53:57.

has been explaining Labour's Mr McDonnell said that if his party

:53:58.:54:00.

came into government, there would be discipline over day

:54:01.:54:04.

to day spending. But he said it would invest more

:54:05.:54:06.

in skills, infrastructure You borrow for investment to grow

:54:07.:54:12.

the economy. It is that long-term investment, patient investment, that

:54:13.:54:12.

we need. The next news on BBC One

:54:13.:54:13.

is at one o'clock. First, let's have a look at what's

:54:14.:54:16.

coming up immediately Join us live from Glasgow at ten

:54:17.:54:24.

when we will be debating the snoopers Charter. After the vote

:54:25.:54:29.

yesterday, should there be illegal The Chancellor is with me to talk

:54:30.:54:41.

about driverless cars, this will be a major initiative coming up in the

:54:42.:54:49.

Budget. And driverless lorries? This is a massive technological change to

:54:50.:54:54.

the way cars work and in places like California they are trailing them. I

:54:55.:54:58.

don't want Britain to be left behind. Companies like Nissan and

:54:59.:55:03.

Jaguar Land Rover are developing these cars. Will we see driverless

:55:04.:55:10.

cars on British roads soon? We want to see them trialed in Britain in

:55:11.:55:15.

2017 and potentially available in Britain from 2020. Other countries

:55:16.:55:19.

are doing this. To reassure you, there is a driver sitting in the

:55:20.:55:26.

seat. Does this mean I can go to the pub and get smashed and go home

:55:27.:55:30.

safely? I don't think we have come to the alcohol rules. I can read the

:55:31.:55:38.

paper in my car and so on? There is an incredible amount of change going

:55:39.:55:41.

on in the world and we need to make the changes to adapt to this world

:55:42.:55:47.

and be ahead of it. Britain was the home of invention, let's keep being

:55:48.:55:52.

that. And great cavalcades of driverless lorries we are told, does

:55:53.:55:58.

this mean that HS2 which is going crazily overbudget, the trains will

:55:59.:56:04.

fall off the rails, it is time to junk that? No, Britain is the

:56:05.:56:08.

country that developed the railway, are we really going to say we will

:56:09.:56:13.

not build any more railways? Let's not withdraw from the world.

:56:14.:56:20.

Driverless cars, yes, the trains as well.

:56:21.:56:21.

Andrew Neil will be here in an hour with the Scottish First

:56:22.:56:25.

Join us again at the same time next Sunday.

:56:26.:56:28.

I'll be talking to Jeremy Irons about, among other things,

:56:29.:56:31.

his surprising new role as a Hollywood action hero.

:56:32.:56:33.

But for now, we leave you with some Nordic cool -

:56:34.:56:35.

From her new album, released yesterday, this is "Conqueror".

:56:36.:56:38.

# Broken mornings, broken nights and broken days in between

:56:39.:57:01.

# Open ground, the sky is open, makes an open sea

:57:02.:57:03.

# Just like in fiction, in every addiction

:57:04.:57:05.

# I've been looking for the conqueror

:57:06.:57:12.

# But there's no seduction only destruction

:57:13.:57:51.

# Oh fantasy take me over and break me

:57:52.:57:57.

# I've been looking for the conqueror

:57:58.:58:01.

# I've been looking for the conqueror

:58:02.:58:57.

# But you don't seem to come my way #.

:58:58.:59:05.

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