Browse content similar to 17/04/2016. Check below for episodes and series from the same categories and more!
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Hard to believe, but the EU debate only | :00:21. | :00:22. | |
Between the competing camps, the argument is turning nasty. | :00:23. | :00:25. | |
Before long the weather will turn and this foul, cold spring will end. | :00:26. | :00:28. | |
When it does, for the rest of us, it's going to be make-your-mind-up | :00:29. | :00:31. | |
As Vote Leave are designated the official campaign | :00:32. | :00:49. | |
to quit the EU, I'm joined by Chris Grayling, one of the senior | :00:50. | :00:52. | |
Conservatives who disagrees with his own government. | :00:53. | :00:54. | |
And on the remain side, Labour's Yvette Cooper. | :00:55. | :00:58. | |
What does she make of Jeremy Corbyn's call | :00:59. | :01:02. | |
The EU crisis is bound up with the crisis in Syria. | :01:03. | :01:08. | |
David Davis, the former Tory Minister, has this week been | :01:09. | :01:11. | |
to speak directly to President Assad and will tell us all. | :01:12. | :01:23. | |
So what, meanwhile, do our European partners make of Britain's | :01:24. | :01:25. | |
I've been talking to Emmanuel Macron, the minister | :01:26. | :01:30. | |
in charge of the French economy and a possible presidential | :01:31. | :01:35. | |
candidate, who warns there will be a price to pay if we leave. | :01:36. | :01:39. | |
We have to be very clear that Brexit will have consequences. | :01:40. | :01:44. | |
Reviewing the papers, one-time Labour supporting | :01:45. | :02:04. | |
novelist Tony Parsons, who has voted for Ukip | :02:05. | :02:06. | |
And finally, we're joined by one of the European figures who makes | :02:07. | :02:11. | |
everybody feel better, Johann Sebastian Bach, | :02:12. | :02:13. | |
as performed by one of our leading musical lights, | :02:14. | :02:15. | |
But first the news with Christian Fraser. | :02:16. | :02:18. | |
At least 77 people have been killed following a powerful earthquake off | :02:19. | :02:22. | |
The epicentre was 27km from the coastal town of Muisne, | :02:23. | :02:25. | |
A state of emergency has been declared across much | :02:26. | :02:29. | |
of the west of the country, as Reged Ahmed explains. | :02:30. | :02:31. | |
This is amateur footage of the earthquake hitting | :02:32. | :02:33. | |
a supermarket in the capital, Quito. | :02:34. | :02:34. | |
As the shelves shake and pots smash to the floor, | :02:35. | :02:37. | |
it shows just how violent the quake was. | :02:38. | :02:44. | |
And yet this effect was still more than 170km from the epicentre, | :02:45. | :02:47. | |
which hit on the coast in the north-east of the country. | :02:48. | :02:50. | |
Once the 7.8 magnitude earthquake hit, reports of damage started | :02:51. | :02:58. | |
Pictures on social media revealed just how widespread it might be. | :02:59. | :03:18. | |
In Guayaquil, much further to the south east, an overpass | :03:19. | :03:20. | |
collapsed, rescue workers rushing to the scene. | :03:21. | :03:22. | |
There was also a tsunami warning as authorities started to report | :03:23. | :03:25. | |
on the death toll and ask people to stay away from coastal areas. | :03:26. | :03:28. | |
We are continuing to receive information from the national system | :03:29. | :03:30. | |
regarding health during this regrettable loss of life. | :03:31. | :03:32. | |
The numbers still need to be confirmed. | :03:33. | :03:34. | |
The entire public force is in a state of maximum alert | :03:35. | :03:37. | |
As the hours go by, the true extent of the damage, | :03:38. | :03:53. | |
and the death toll in Ecuador, will only become clearer. | :03:54. | :03:56. | |
Nearly a quarter of a million people have been ordered | :03:57. | :03:58. | |
to leave their homes in southern Japan amid fears of | :03:59. | :04:01. | |
At least 41 people have died and dozens more are missing, | :04:02. | :04:06. | |
feared buried, after two earthquakes struck in recent days. | :04:07. | :04:08. | |
Rescue efforts have been hampered by heavy rain. | :04:09. | :04:12. | |
More than 150 countries will begin using a new polio vaccine in a final | :04:13. | :04:15. | |
It's expected to be more effective in targeting the last few | :04:16. | :04:19. | |
Health officials say the change-over is a sign of how close the world | :04:20. | :04:23. | |
Two 14-year-olds have been charged with murdering a woman | :04:24. | :04:29. | |
Police have named the victims as Elizabeth Edwards, who was 49, | :04:30. | :04:37. | |
and her 13-year-old daughter Katie, whose bodies were found | :04:38. | :04:39. | |
at a property in Spalding on Friday afternoon. | :04:40. | :04:45. | |
One of the biggest Roman villas in Britain has been unearthed | :04:46. | :04:48. | |
in Wiltshire after part of a mosaic was discovered by workmen laying | :04:49. | :04:51. | |
Archaeologists, who've found coins, brooches and the remains | :04:52. | :04:56. | |
of oysters, have described the villa as elaborate | :04:57. | :04:58. | |
I'll be back with the headlines just before 10 o'clock. | :04:59. | :05:04. | |
The visit of Kate and William to India and Bhutan produced a | :05:05. | :05:18. | |
sensational series of photographs. There is the one to top them all, | :05:19. | :05:25. | |
the two of them in front of that # owl, recreating the famous lonely | :05:26. | :05:28. | |
pose that Princess Diana used to announce that her marriage was over. | :05:29. | :05:34. | |
Happy ending in all senses. And this, Britain faces economic rupture | :05:35. | :05:39. | |
if we leave the EU, says the government. There is a tragedy | :05:40. | :05:43. | |
report coming out tomorrow about economic consequences. A different | :05:44. | :05:49. | |
story on Observer. 10,000 kids do not have primary school places, we | :05:50. | :05:53. | |
will talk about that. And we will talk about Lily Allen's interview, | :05:54. | :05:58. | |
revealing that she has been the victim of a horrendous stocking case | :05:59. | :06:02. | |
for seven years until she has not been taken seriously. And Ian | :06:03. | :06:07. | |
Botham, swinging for Brexit, it says. The pictures we saw in front | :06:08. | :06:13. | |
of the Sunday Telegraph, and then exceptionally well written piece. | :06:14. | :06:17. | |
And another story we will be talking about, MP's porn star lover showing | :06:18. | :06:23. | |
Cabinet papers. Is this something or nothing? We will find out shortly. | :06:24. | :06:28. | |
We will start with you, Tony, and the Sunday Times, Ian Botham. It is | :06:29. | :06:34. | |
the first weekend proper of campaigning in the EU referendum. It | :06:35. | :06:40. | |
is Stardust time. The celebrity and door Smedts are being wheeled out. | :06:41. | :06:47. | |
People who would like us to leave Brussels have got endorsement from | :06:48. | :06:51. | |
Ian Botham, the celebrated national treasure. If in doubt, get Ian | :06:52. | :06:58. | |
Botham. It is a short piece but it will have a big impact. Ian Botham | :06:59. | :07:02. | |
makes the point you would expect him to make about the way the EU has not | :07:03. | :07:08. | |
signed off on their accounts for 20 years, the endemic corruption, the | :07:09. | :07:12. | |
loss of national sovereignty, all of that. He makes the point that he | :07:13. | :07:18. | |
spent his professional life around sports men from Australia, Canada, | :07:19. | :07:23. | |
India, South Africa, the Commonwealth of Nations that we will | :07:24. | :07:27. | |
be hearing about this week with the Queen's 90th birthday. He makes the | :07:28. | :07:34. | |
case for us leaving Brussels as being to embrace those old alliances | :07:35. | :07:38. | |
that we have been too dismissive about. Who do people really listen | :07:39. | :07:43. | |
to? If they do not trust politicians, do they trust bankers, | :07:44. | :07:48. | |
cricketers, central bankers? Everyone is looking for the | :07:49. | :07:53. | |
trustworthy voice. I am not sure it makes a difference to anyone. I am | :07:54. | :07:56. | |
not sure that Ian Botham will persuade anyone to change their | :07:57. | :08:01. | |
vote. I think it is possible you can have a celebrity endorsement that | :08:02. | :08:08. | |
does harm. It is Ian Botham against President Obama this week. Yes, it | :08:09. | :08:14. | |
is. I think that the intervention of President Obama could backfire. | :08:15. | :08:18. | |
Unlike Ian Botham, President Obama does not have a vote. You have | :08:19. | :08:25. | |
chosen that story from the Observer? Yes, President Obama coming to town, | :08:26. | :08:29. | |
Downing Street hoping this would be the direct intervention from the | :08:30. | :08:33. | |
president. He is the cool guy, young in people's mains. He is champing | :08:34. | :08:39. | |
those who want to remain. Boris Johnson also made the point that the | :08:40. | :08:44. | |
Americans Walmart sign international treaties over the oceans, never mind | :08:45. | :08:49. | |
anything else. He says that President Obama is a hypocrite. Yes, | :08:50. | :08:56. | |
he accused him of hypocrisy. It is being dressed up as a conspiracy by | :08:57. | :09:01. | |
people who want to leave. President Obama is part of this supranational | :09:02. | :09:04. | |
crew who are coming over and telling us what to do. At the same time, who | :09:05. | :09:11. | |
is coming out to bats-mac to stay in Europe? You have people like | :09:12. | :09:15. | |
President Obama, leading a country, on his way out, does he have to live | :09:16. | :09:21. | |
say anything he does not want to? Probably not. You have organisations | :09:22. | :09:27. | |
like the IMF, big organisations with a vested interest. It is about | :09:28. | :09:31. | |
trust. Who has got the facts? Ian Botham, Barack Obama? We saw this | :09:32. | :09:39. | |
with the Scottish referendum. The side to vote out of anything is the | :09:40. | :09:43. | |
cooler cited beyond. It is doing something different. Cheerleading | :09:44. | :09:48. | |
for the status quo is left to people like Barack Obama. That is | :09:49. | :09:53. | |
interesting, because the opinion polls put the two sides neck and | :09:54. | :09:59. | |
neck, but I do not feel there is a parody of passion. The argument to | :10:00. | :10:02. | |
remain is not being made with the same blood than conviction and | :10:03. | :10:06. | |
emotion. Boris Johnson is right, Barack Obama will not allow freedom | :10:07. | :10:11. | |
of movement from Latin America, he will not take orders from the | :10:12. | :10:17. | |
Canadians, they do not sign up to the International criminal Court. | :10:18. | :10:23. | |
Boris Johnson give the opposition camp a good name, despite being on | :10:24. | :10:28. | |
the other side. This story is bleeding into other stories. We will | :10:29. | :10:32. | |
talk about the front page of the Observer. There is a shortage of | :10:33. | :10:37. | |
primary school places. If you have young children, the big story this | :10:38. | :10:41. | |
week is the letter that you will receive tomorrow, when you find out | :10:42. | :10:45. | |
if your child got their place in their choice of primary school. It | :10:46. | :10:50. | |
is a massive thing you view a parent or child. There will be massive | :10:51. | :10:56. | |
disappointment. One year ago, 20% of people were disappointed. This year, | :10:57. | :11:00. | |
it is likely to be higher. It ties in with the story on the front page | :11:01. | :11:06. | |
of the Sunday Telegraph, about one in four waiting more than a week to | :11:07. | :11:10. | |
see their GP. It is at the stage now where you could die of full-page | :11:11. | :11:18. | |
waiting to see your local doctor. -- old age. The evidence suggests that | :11:19. | :11:24. | |
our infrastructure is collapsing under the weight of numbers. Is this | :11:25. | :11:29. | |
connected with immigration? It is possibly I'm connected, there are | :11:30. | :11:33. | |
too many people. We have numbers of people that we are not capable of | :11:34. | :11:38. | |
educating, giving proper health care. No one can address it, it is | :11:39. | :11:43. | |
too big a problem. I said at the beginning that you were a Labour | :11:44. | :11:48. | |
voter and you have no voted for Ukip and the Tories. Is this because you | :11:49. | :11:52. | |
think Labour have turned their back on working-class old Labour voters? | :11:53. | :11:57. | |
I am a former member of the Labour Party. It is a 20th-century | :11:58. | :12:02. | |
political party. They have completely disconnected with the | :12:03. | :12:06. | |
working class of this country. They are terrified to say anything about | :12:07. | :12:12. | |
immigration. It shows how far removed the are from ordinary | :12:13. | :12:14. | |
people. People have been completely betrayed. It is not just the working | :12:15. | :12:21. | |
class that have been betrayed by the Labour Party. I will put some of | :12:22. | :12:25. | |
this two Yvette Cooper. They have never had a female leader in 116 | :12:26. | :12:34. | |
years. Well observed. It could've been the woman who will be joining | :12:35. | :12:40. | |
us shortly. And no to the Mail On Sunday, page after page of John | :12:41. | :12:44. | |
Whittingdale and his life. There are lots of embarrassing details we will | :12:45. | :12:49. | |
not go into. Does it amount to anything as a political story? It | :12:50. | :12:53. | |
has been labelled as a Tory sex scandal across these pages. I have | :12:54. | :12:59. | |
gone through all of this forever everybody at home, so they do not | :13:00. | :13:02. | |
have to. Whenever you look at anything in a newspaper, you would | :13:03. | :13:06. | |
want to think, what is the public interest? Why do we need to know | :13:07. | :13:10. | |
about the private life of the culture secretary in such detail? | :13:11. | :13:15. | |
The shocking thing is he is not married! Is it acceptable for Tories | :13:16. | :13:20. | |
to have sex? It is nine o'clock in the morning, I do not know if I am | :13:21. | :13:25. | |
up to this yet, I only have water in the glass. You have a culture | :13:26. | :13:28. | |
secretary who is heavily involved in how the media in this country work. | :13:29. | :13:34. | |
He is almost being a test case for privacy in the post-Leveson world. | :13:35. | :13:41. | |
This is the privacy minister. There are two things, his private life, | :13:42. | :13:47. | |
what is up for grabs, what is OK? It seems to have been justified by a | :13:48. | :13:51. | |
brilliant photo. He broke protocol at Chequers and took this photo and | :13:52. | :13:58. | |
allegedly said that -- and allegedly sent it to one of his lovers, off | :13:59. | :14:02. | |
all the Cabinet, looking like they were having a jolly time. It is also | :14:03. | :14:08. | |
said that his red box, sensitive papers, were left out for some of | :14:09. | :14:13. | |
these women to see. He bragged about his job. Some men have a bit of an | :14:14. | :14:19. | |
eagle. Friends of John Whittingdale say that no one saw the Cabinet | :14:20. | :14:26. | |
papers. There are pages of this. We could not not talk about this if we | :14:27. | :14:31. | |
are looking at the Sunday papers. The allegation was that John | :14:32. | :14:35. | |
Whittingdale would be hostile to the BBC in the future. The newspapers do | :14:36. | :14:41. | |
not want to do those stories to look after their own interests. Here is | :14:42. | :14:45. | |
the Mail On Sunday disproving that. Some of the pages I am not sure you | :14:46. | :14:49. | |
could look out on a family show. Politicians being caught with their | :14:50. | :14:55. | |
trousers down will always be in the Sunday papers. I would like to talk | :14:56. | :15:01. | |
about Christine Lagarde. The managing director of the IMF has | :15:02. | :15:03. | |
been mourning about the stagnation of the global economy. What I always | :15:04. | :15:09. | |
think is wonderful about Christine Lagarde morning about the global | :15:10. | :15:12. | |
economy, she does not pay any income tax. Perhaps if she started paying | :15:13. | :15:19. | |
tax. She is part of that group who have risen above it. | :15:20. | :15:25. | |
Another person we look up to in a different sense is Lily Allen, but | :15:26. | :15:33. | |
she has given a fairly ringing interview to the Observer about | :15:34. | :15:41. | |
being stalked. This is huge. Lily Allen has been off the scene for a | :15:42. | :15:44. | |
while, she came back last year with an album and one of the things she | :15:45. | :15:48. | |
says has been keeping her indoors, keeping her feeling like she cannot | :15:49. | :15:52. | |
be herself is the fact she has been stopped for seven years which | :15:53. | :15:56. | |
culminated in this man getting into not only her house but her bedroom, | :15:57. | :16:02. | |
armed with some sort of knife. It took for her handbag to be stolen | :16:03. | :16:05. | |
for the police to take this seriously. It is anti-stalking week. | :16:06. | :16:14. | |
It is 700,000 women per year, and that's only the ones who report, | :16:15. | :16:18. | |
being stalked in this country. That's basically what percent of the | :16:19. | :16:22. | |
population. She has teamed up with the women's equality party, with a | :16:23. | :16:31. | |
campaign to save police are not taking this kind of thing seriously | :16:32. | :16:35. | |
enough, that the structures in this country are not set up properly to | :16:36. | :16:38. | |
deal with these issues specifically to women who are having to deal with | :16:39. | :16:42. | |
this kind of thing. It will be interesting to see if there is a | :16:43. | :16:47. | |
proper police response. Terrifying, and when you read it took her | :16:48. | :16:51. | |
handbag to be stolen, and it was returned the next lights burned to a | :16:52. | :17:00. | |
cinder on the roof of her car, now we understand it is a burglary, and | :17:01. | :17:05. | |
we shall say that only recently was added that stalking was a crime of | :17:06. | :17:09. | |
the mind so there's a lot for police to learn from this. Slightly more | :17:10. | :17:13. | |
cheerful news I mentioned right at beginning. Yes, it is perhaps the | :17:14. | :17:21. | |
most iconic Princess Diana image is remodelled with Kate and William | :17:22. | :17:27. | |
outside the Taj Mahal. And it is beautiful but can I point something | :17:28. | :17:31. | |
out. There is the picture in the Observer and all of the towers | :17:32. | :17:36. | |
behind have scaffolding on them, and on the Sunday Express the | :17:37. | :17:38. | |
scaffolding has magically disappeared. They work very fast. My | :17:39. | :17:45. | |
favourite detail was apparently the bench was so hot before they sat | :17:46. | :17:50. | |
down some workers had to come and douse it in ice water and dry it. | :17:51. | :17:55. | |
They looked very comfortable. That is a very happy note to finish on, | :17:56. | :17:58. | |
thank you very much indeed. Jeremy Corbyn was accused by some | :17:59. | :18:00. | |
of making a half-hearted speech Whether he'll play a prominent | :18:01. | :18:03. | |
role in the referendum campaign remains to be seen, | :18:04. | :18:07. | |
but among Labour enthusiasts for the UK to remain | :18:08. | :18:09. | |
in is the former Cabinet minister and leadership contender | :18:10. | :18:11. | |
Yvette Cooper, You may have heard Tony Parsons | :18:12. | :18:20. | |
pointing out that he feels the Labour Party really let down a lot | :18:21. | :18:24. | |
of Labour voters by allowing so many migrants in from the EU for so long | :18:25. | :18:29. | |
and that had an effect on wages and job security and on creaking public | :18:30. | :18:33. | |
services. You have spoken about this in the past so how do you feel about | :18:34. | :18:38. | |
your leader saying we didn't let too many people in, in his speech this | :18:39. | :18:43. | |
week? You and I have discussed this many times before and I said I think | :18:44. | :18:48. | |
we should have had transitional controls on Eastern Europe, we | :18:49. | :18:51. | |
should have done that and we also should have done more when we were | :18:52. | :18:55. | |
in Government on issues around exploitation and undercutting but | :18:56. | :18:58. | |
that is something we have all been campaigning for for a long time. It | :18:59. | :19:02. | |
is something Jeremy talked about in his speech, the need to deal with | :19:03. | :19:07. | |
undercutting, and it is important to do that. He did say I don't think | :19:08. | :19:13. | |
too many have come, and he is wrong on that you think? I didn't hear him | :19:14. | :19:20. | |
talk about transitional controls, I don't know what the issue is there, | :19:21. | :19:25. | |
and there is concern about migration across the country but what's the | :19:26. | :19:29. | |
implications for this for the European referendum is I think | :19:30. | :19:33. | |
there's a big problem with a lot of the leave campaign promising we will | :19:34. | :19:37. | |
have a single market and then we will restrict all immigration, and | :19:38. | :19:40. | |
all the evidence shows that if you want to be in the single market, you | :19:41. | :19:47. | |
end up having to agree to the free movement rules. If we want to change | :19:48. | :19:52. | |
the rules, you have got to be in there to argue for reform. You | :19:53. | :19:55. | |
cannot get reform if you stay on the outside. Nigel Lawson sitting in | :19:56. | :20:01. | |
that chair last week said he didn't think the single market was a very | :20:02. | :20:08. | |
big issue, but coming back to immigration, can I make it clear, | :20:09. | :20:11. | |
you talk about transitional controls because you think too many did,. I | :20:12. | :20:17. | |
think you are in danger of recycling an argument we have had many times. | :20:18. | :20:23. | |
I think the pace of migration as a result of not having immigration | :20:24. | :20:26. | |
controls and not having the transition controls was too fast. We | :20:27. | :20:32. | |
have to deal with the situation we are in now. We are outside Schengen | :20:33. | :20:37. | |
so we obviously have border controls and things that other parts don't | :20:38. | :20:43. | |
have... But we also have to allow in EU people if they want to come. But | :20:44. | :20:47. | |
if you have proper border controls you can do the security checks the | :20:48. | :20:50. | |
leave campaign have said you cannot have. A lot of people have said that | :20:51. | :20:59. | |
if I am worried about migration, the obvious answer is to leave the EU. | :21:00. | :21:04. | |
They have been given a false promise that you can close off your borders | :21:05. | :21:09. | |
and also have the free trade and single market access that we have | :21:10. | :21:13. | |
always had as part of Europe and you can pick and choose. Those who are | :21:14. | :21:18. | |
not saying that, what are they saying instead? They are saying it | :21:19. | :21:24. | |
is OK to have 10% tariffs on cars, on our financial services. That is a | :21:25. | :21:31. | |
real risk. It is important because the Labour approaches we have got to | :21:32. | :21:36. | |
protect our manufacturing jobs. We could lose ?100 billion worth of | :21:37. | :21:41. | |
trade. We could lose the jobs are industrial towns depend on and also | :21:42. | :21:45. | |
some of the employment rights that our trade unions have been | :21:46. | :21:50. | |
campaigning for. There's a good reason you have the TUC as well as | :21:51. | :21:54. | |
the IMF, all talking about the real risks to our jobs and economy and it | :21:55. | :21:59. | |
is working people across Britain who will be most hardest-hit if we end | :22:00. | :22:06. | |
up losing these jobs. Jeremy Corbyn suggested this week there should be | :22:07. | :22:11. | |
an EU-wide minimum wage adjusted to local conditions. How would that | :22:12. | :22:15. | |
work? Its that's not actually what he said. He was talking about | :22:16. | :22:19. | |
employment rights, for example you have things like paternity leave | :22:20. | :22:26. | |
rights so that stops other companies right across Europe getting rid of | :22:27. | :22:31. | |
maternity rights in order to undercut our companies here in | :22:32. | :22:35. | |
Britain. What he actually said is there has to be a case for a minimum | :22:36. | :22:41. | |
wage tied to economic conditions across the continent, which implies | :22:42. | :22:45. | |
the EU centrally will set minimum wages for all of the countries. Are | :22:46. | :22:51. | |
you suggesting it wouldn't work? That is a link to economic | :22:52. | :22:56. | |
conditions. Do you understand this proposal? What you need is a way to | :22:57. | :23:01. | |
stop other countries undercutting and that's why you work together. If | :23:02. | :23:08. | |
you want Google to pay tax, if you want big global companies to pay | :23:09. | :23:12. | |
tax, one country cannot do it on their own. We have to get countries | :23:13. | :23:15. | |
to work together in order to do that. You are a Labour politician. | :23:16. | :23:22. | |
One of the things people say is that if Britain leaves the EU there is a | :23:23. | :23:26. | |
strong chance Scotland will leave the UK, which is then an existential | :23:27. | :23:35. | |
moment for Labour, the part is over -- the party is over. I think it is | :23:36. | :23:41. | |
an existential moment for the country, the immediate issue is the | :23:42. | :23:44. | |
existential crisis for the country. I think it would be terrible for our | :23:45. | :23:51. | |
country if we ended up firstly pulling out of Europe and losing the | :23:52. | :23:55. | |
ability to have an impact across the world, and then losing Scotland | :23:56. | :23:59. | |
breaking up as well. In the end it is a Labour value, we are stronger | :24:00. | :24:03. | |
if we stand together then if we leave people to swim or sink alone. | :24:04. | :24:08. | |
Even the Catholic Church was making that argument this week as well. We | :24:09. | :24:14. | |
were talking about Scotland a moment ago, surely it would be catastrophic | :24:15. | :24:17. | |
for the Labour Party if you come third in the Scottish elections | :24:18. | :24:23. | |
coming up. Kezia Dugdale is working immensely hard, we know we still | :24:24. | :24:27. | |
have the shadow of what happened in referendum... If you were beaten by | :24:28. | :24:33. | |
the Tories in Scotland, that would be the hideous and horrendous moment | :24:34. | :24:38. | |
for the party. We are campaigning for every vote. Before we finished, | :24:39. | :24:43. | |
I can see you are coming to the end, it is important this issue about our | :24:44. | :24:47. | |
I can see you are coming to the end, economy and public services. Ask | :24:48. | :24:50. | |
Chris Grayling about this later, he's been claiming that somehow | :24:51. | :24:53. | |
Chris Grayling about this later, pulling out of Europe will save our | :24:54. | :24:54. | |
NHS. We should be pulling out of Europe will save our | :24:55. | :24:58. | |
Tory government responsible for the pulling out of Europe will save our | :24:59. | :25:01. | |
state of our NHS, not Brussels, and we would be a poorer country with | :25:02. | :25:05. | |
less resources to support our NHS if we pull out. I have a sheath of | :25:06. | :25:10. | |
questions for Chris Grayling, but thank you. | :25:11. | :25:12. | |
Let's be honest, it's been a confusing and rather | :25:13. | :25:17. | |
slapping us round the chops like a piece of wet cod. | :25:18. | :25:20. | |
Just tell us when it's going to end for goodness sake, | :25:21. | :25:23. | |
Let's see what we can do. We are making a start with sky 's the | :25:24. | :25:34. | |
bluest of blue across many parts of the UK. This was the picture | :25:35. | :25:40. | |
recently from south Wales. You can see that is extending across much of | :25:41. | :25:41. | |
the UK but not quite everywhere. That is accompanied by a fairly | :25:42. | :25:56. | |
brisk breeze in Scotland, so not quite as pleasant. A bit of patchy | :25:57. | :26:00. | |
cloud for England and Wales but not spoiling things too much, the winds | :26:01. | :26:03. | |
here rather lighter so temperatures a bit higher than yesterday, a | :26:04. | :26:08. | |
decent amount of sunshine. That will start to feel a little more like | :26:09. | :26:12. | |
spring, and not quite as cold tonight either. We had a sharp frost | :26:13. | :26:16. | |
under the clear skies last night. The wind is picking up and the cloud | :26:17. | :26:21. | |
is working south, you might get a touch of frost across the southern | :26:22. | :26:30. | |
counties of England before that cloud arrives but generally | :26:31. | :26:32. | |
temperatures around six or 7 degrees. In the week ahead a lot of | :26:33. | :26:35. | |
dry weather to come, warmer by day in the sunshine, still some chilly | :26:36. | :26:40. | |
nights around but overall much less discombobulated and for you in the | :26:41. | :26:41. | |
week ahead. The Syrian civil war has been | :26:42. | :26:48. | |
going on for nearly five years. It's claimed at least a quarter | :26:49. | :26:52. | |
of 1 million lives, and more than four million people | :26:53. | :26:55. | |
have fled the country, triggering shock | :26:56. | :26:57. | |
waves across Europe. David Davis, Tory MP, | :26:58. | :26:58. | |
has just come back from Damascus and a face-to-face meeting | :26:59. | :27:01. | |
with President Bashar Assad. You have been speaking to Bashar | :27:02. | :27:12. | |
al-Assad, who was regarded around the world as one of the most evil | :27:13. | :27:16. | |
dictator is going. How did you find him? He oversees a regime which | :27:17. | :27:25. | |
murders and tortures prisoners and carries out barrel bombing. He was | :27:26. | :27:31. | |
polite, courteous. We had warned him before we arrived that we were going | :27:32. | :27:34. | |
to be very frank with him and his opening words were please be blunt, | :27:35. | :27:40. | |
so we were. So you asked him about the barrel bombs and the torture? | :27:41. | :27:46. | |
How did he respond? My colleague was very fierce about it. He sidestepped | :27:47. | :27:51. | |
the barrel bomb argument but on the torture and killing of prisoners he | :27:52. | :27:55. | |
tried to claim that that was down to enemy propaganda, he said our | :27:56. | :28:01. | |
opponents are very good with online propaganda. Of course that may be | :28:02. | :28:07. | |
true to some extent, it was two years ago a British citizen was | :28:08. | :28:13. | |
tortured, we think, and killed in their custody and there is other | :28:14. | :28:18. | |
evidence, it is still going on. Other ministers in his government | :28:19. | :28:21. | |
put it down to revenge and their lack of control. His troops are | :28:22. | :28:28. | |
moving forward again thanks to President Putin's intervention, did | :28:29. | :28:33. | |
he talk to you about that? Do you think it feels safe as a result? | :28:34. | :28:39. | |
Absolutely, I asked because I was interested in why Putin downscaled | :28:40. | :28:44. | |
what they were doing. The Russian army completely but the Syrian army | :28:45. | :28:50. | |
back on its feet. I asked him why he downscaled it and he said because | :28:51. | :28:54. | |
Russia were being criticised for stalling the talks, taking away the | :28:55. | :28:58. | |
incentive for him to negotiate. Almost as a throwaway line he said, | :28:59. | :29:03. | |
but Putin said we will not let you lose. Which for me was the most | :29:04. | :29:08. | |
important phrase of the entire visit because that defines what the | :29:09. | :29:12. | |
outcome will be. If the Russians will not let them lose, there are | :29:13. | :29:17. | |
two possible outcomes. The jihadist victory, which would be a disaster | :29:18. | :29:22. | |
in my view, it is not on the cards but I've negotiated outcome or | :29:23. | :29:28. | |
Syrian victory is on the cards. It wasn't long ago we were being told | :29:29. | :29:31. | |
70,000 moderate Syrian fighters taking on the regime by the | :29:32. | :29:37. | |
Government, any of that? No, where we could we talk to people like NGOs | :29:38. | :29:42. | |
and journalist both inside Damascus and Beirut, and the most telling | :29:43. | :29:52. | |
comment was from a very good NGO leader in Damascus who said that | :29:53. | :29:58. | |
there is nobody that the west would recognise as a moderate amongst the | :29:59. | :30:03. | |
various sorts of jihadist and so-called freedom fighters. It is an | :30:04. | :30:06. | |
unappetising choice between sticking with Assad and the Russians on one | :30:07. | :30:10. | |
hand, and allowing the turmoil of extremist groups on the other. Is | :30:11. | :30:17. | |
there a way forward. There is a negotiated outcome. The reason I | :30:18. | :30:21. | |
went is because Europe's two biggest problems are massive security | :30:22. | :30:25. | |
problems, 1000 jihadist a year arriving in Europe, and even | :30:26. | :30:29. | |
hundreds of thousands of refugees, both of those go back to the Syrian | :30:30. | :30:34. | |
conflict. The longer it goes on, the worst Appleby. | :30:35. | :30:44. | |
A negotiated outcome. At the moment, with Syria just under the control of | :30:45. | :30:52. | |
the Russians, who are not going to stop the torturing, the killing of | :30:53. | :30:56. | |
prisoners. It seems to me that the West has got to get a card in this | :30:57. | :31:02. | |
game. I think one of the most important things the West could do | :31:03. | :31:07. | |
is draft a plan to rebuild Syria. It used to be the Germany of the land, | :31:08. | :31:14. | |
a breadbasket, pharmaceuticals, textiles, you name it. If you want | :31:15. | :31:19. | |
this, you have got to negotiate properly, to create a civilised | :31:20. | :31:23. | |
regime. Do you take the view that Assad eventually must go? The other | :31:24. | :31:28. | |
thing that the head of the NGO said, is Assad stood for election | :31:29. | :31:32. | |
tomorrow, he would win. When he stood a few years ago, they would | :31:33. | :31:36. | |
have had a general election this week, it was a farce, when he stood | :31:37. | :31:42. | |
a few years ago, he got 63%. He would probably get more, because | :31:43. | :31:45. | |
everybody was terrified of the upturn at it. We will leave that to | :31:46. | :31:52. | |
the people of Syria. If the West was to put Assad of the table for the | :31:53. | :31:56. | |
moment, would you do that? I would not make that a red line, I would | :31:57. | :32:01. | |
say we want a democratic, civilised state. At the moment you have a | :32:02. | :32:09. | |
repressive state was a civilised society. Churches alongside mosques, | :32:10. | :32:11. | |
women not winning fails, you name it. You want to maintain that piece | :32:12. | :32:17. | |
well rebuilding Syria. I would talk to Vladimir Putin, I would talk to | :32:18. | :32:21. | |
the Assad government. This was here before Assad took over. His father | :32:22. | :32:26. | |
created the resume. The machinery has been there for a long time. | :32:27. | :32:31. | |
Since you're a leading enthusiast for the league side of the argument, | :32:32. | :32:35. | |
let me ask you about the comments of Ken Clarke this week, the Prime | :32:36. | :32:40. | |
Minister would not last 30 seconds if we voted for Brexit. You asking | :32:41. | :32:45. | |
me if I agree with that? Yes. I do not. If we vote for Brexit, it is | :32:46. | :32:51. | |
clear that David Cameron cannot delete that bit of his government's | :32:52. | :32:58. | |
activities, the renegotiation. He would have to appoint someone who | :32:59. | :33:03. | |
the public and the party had faith in, but to most importantly believed | :33:04. | :33:07. | |
in the negotiation. If you did that, I see no reason why he should not go | :33:08. | :33:13. | |
on. We are talking about someone who has been on the campaign side to | :33:14. | :33:21. | |
leave the EU. Someone in the foreign is? Go away. You're referring to me. | :33:22. | :33:32. | |
Let's stick to the plausible. If he brought in Boris Johnson Michael | :33:33. | :33:36. | |
Gove, to do the renegotiation, you think he could remain as Prime | :33:37. | :33:40. | |
Minister? Yes, if they give those people are not power to do the job. | :33:41. | :33:46. | |
-- enough power. France's Economy Minister | :33:47. | :33:48. | |
is a young man in a hurry. At 38, Emmanuel Macron has formed | :33:49. | :33:50. | |
a new movement, "En Marche!", and vows to reform both his | :33:51. | :33:53. | |
country and the wider EU. Many French believe he'll | :33:54. | :33:56. | |
run for the presidency, Macron ruffled British | :33:57. | :33:58. | |
feathers when he warned that if the United Kingdom left the EU, | :33:59. | :34:01. | |
France would no longer feel obliged to stop migrants heading | :34:02. | :34:04. | |
from Calais to these shores. When we met, this passionate | :34:05. | :34:06. | |
supporter of the EU began by making You are a great country, | :34:07. | :34:09. | |
and in such a condition, your future as a great country | :34:10. | :34:27. | |
is not outside the EU. It is to be part of the club | :34:28. | :34:29. | |
and to transform the EU I think we need a strong UK | :34:30. | :34:32. | |
and the UK is much stronger Because that is our | :34:33. | :34:37. | |
collective challenge. It is true that if you leave, | :34:38. | :34:44. | |
probably, some people, especially those involved in finance | :34:45. | :34:52. | |
and probably tech, will leave to join the EU and work | :34:53. | :34:54. | |
within the European Union. Definitely Brexit will have | :34:55. | :34:59. | |
direct consequences It will impact the passport, | :35:00. | :35:01. | |
the financial passport, the relationship with the EU, | :35:02. | :35:09. | |
and today the UK is working closely with the rest of the EU, | :35:10. | :35:12. | |
because you're completely enshrined You have been quoted in the past | :35:13. | :35:15. | |
saying that if Brexit happened there would not be migrants | :35:16. | :35:20. | |
in Calais any more. From a political point of view | :35:21. | :35:22. | |
it is obvious it will be extremely tough vis-a-vis our people, | :35:23. | :35:32. | |
especially in the north of France, to say, these guys decided to leave, | :35:33. | :35:35. | |
but we will keep everything No, you will have big | :35:36. | :35:38. | |
political pressure. That is why the president, | :35:39. | :35:42. | |
during the last summit, confirmed that for sure | :35:43. | :35:44. | |
there will be consequences on those different issues | :35:45. | :35:47. | |
in case of a Brexit. And that means more migrants | :35:48. | :35:50. | |
coming through the tunnel And that means more migrants | :35:51. | :35:53. | |
coming through the tunnel Does that not mean that northern | :35:54. | :36:00. | |
France becomes more of a magnet for migrants and creates bigger | :36:01. | :36:03. | |
problems for France? For me, I am not in this approach | :36:04. | :36:05. | |
to create fears and agitate people. That is not a good | :36:06. | :36:12. | |
motivation for votes. My perspective vis-a-vis Brexit, | :36:13. | :36:16. | |
and your decision to be taken, is more about your role | :36:17. | :36:21. | |
in globalisation today I think the UK is not about becoming | :36:22. | :36:24. | |
Jersey or Guernsey. Today you are strong | :36:25. | :36:30. | |
because you're part of the EU. When you discuss your steel | :36:31. | :36:34. | |
industry with China, you are credible because you're part | :36:35. | :36:39. | |
of the EU, not You would be completely killed | :36:40. | :36:42. | |
otherwise. You would never be in a situation | :36:43. | :36:44. | |
to negotiate face-to-face with the Chinese because your | :36:45. | :36:47. | |
domestic market is not relevant for the Chinese, | :36:48. | :36:51. | |
compared to their domestic market. The EU is the first global domestic | :36:52. | :36:55. | |
market, that is the strength. The problem is surely that | :36:56. | :36:59. | |
lots of people in They say the EU is going to be more | :37:00. | :37:01. | |
and more integrated. It is an integration machine | :37:02. | :37:10. | |
until we get a common EU foreign Even if Britain stays, | :37:11. | :37:15. | |
we will be banging on the outside I think your people and your leaders | :37:16. | :37:18. | |
are extremely vocal when they speak This is something different for me | :37:19. | :37:31. | |
than being against integration. When you look at the situation, | :37:32. | :37:41. | |
the single market, You are more sceptical | :37:42. | :37:43. | |
in terms of monetary policy, I think we managed to find | :37:44. | :37:51. | |
a balance, and to have this balance What would be the consequences | :37:52. | :37:58. | |
of the UK leaving the EU, We have to be very clear that | :37:59. | :38:07. | |
a Brexit will have consequences. At the beginning of the dismantling, | :38:08. | :38:14. | |
everybody which disagrees on one or two points | :38:15. | :38:17. | |
will decide to do the same, On passports, on access | :38:18. | :38:20. | |
to the single market. You will no more be part of the club | :38:21. | :38:32. | |
so you will have consequences. Perhaps we can renegotiate | :38:33. | :38:35. | |
the treaty, like we have with other countries, | :38:36. | :38:38. | |
but with contribution This contribution to the European | :38:39. | :38:39. | |
budget is an access, not automatically, | :38:40. | :38:49. | |
to the fully-fledged single market. You would have the type | :38:50. | :38:51. | |
of relationship we have You have to bear that in mind, for | :38:52. | :38:53. | |
sure you would have consequences. Otherwise it does not make sense | :38:54. | :38:59. | |
to have a European Union. On the other side, I think | :39:00. | :39:10. | |
the reaction we have to put in place for the rest of the member states | :39:11. | :39:13. | |
is precisely to go further, and to propose a series | :39:14. | :39:16. | |
of integration measures, integration proposals, | :39:17. | :39:19. | |
and a roadmap for more integration, precisely to have a proactive | :39:20. | :39:24. | |
and positive perspective for Europe, We have to create movement, | :39:25. | :39:26. | |
not to leave the floor for those For my country, I do believe, | :39:27. | :39:33. | |
as I do believe for the UK, by the way, that the unique way | :39:34. | :39:41. | |
to succeed in globalisation is not to become Singapore or Hong Kong, | :39:42. | :39:46. | |
it is to become a big strong That is our history, | :39:47. | :39:49. | |
that is our future. Let me ask you about one of the big | :39:50. | :39:57. | |
issues between our countries at the moment, which is the future | :39:58. | :40:01. | |
of the Hinkley Point We had thought that was more or less | :40:02. | :40:04. | |
a done deal, but it has been suggested that | :40:05. | :40:11. | |
because of the massive debt that will burden EDF with, | :40:12. | :40:15. | |
that this is no longer something that is definitely going to happen, | :40:16. | :40:18. | |
that is not certain. We are actively working | :40:19. | :40:20. | |
with your company. I had a series of discussions | :40:21. | :40:24. | |
with my counterparts in your government on the technicalities | :40:25. | :40:27. | |
of the deal, to finalise precisely The political commitment | :40:28. | :40:30. | |
is completely confirmed. It is very important for France, | :40:31. | :40:41. | |
it is very important Now we have to finalise the work, | :40:42. | :40:46. | |
and especially the technical and industrial work, | :40:47. | :40:53. | |
very closely with EDF, with the British government, | :40:54. | :40:59. | |
to be in a situation to sign That is my view, from our | :41:00. | :41:01. | |
perspective, because it is very important for our commitment | :41:02. | :41:13. | |
to nuclear energy. I think that is your choice | :41:14. | :41:15. | |
and our choice. You have a new movement, tell me | :41:16. | :41:22. | |
about "En Marche!", what is it for? We have proposed radical reforms, | :41:23. | :41:25. | |
strong reforms, ambitious reforms for the country, | :41:26. | :41:46. | |
without being captured by the classical right | :41:47. | :41:48. | |
and left approach. Because when you look at France, | :41:49. | :41:49. | |
it is the labour market, it is all about balance | :41:50. | :41:53. | |
and relationships between freedom and justice, | :41:54. | :41:55. | |
freedom and security. In one year, we have a | :41:56. | :41:57. | |
presidential election. We have to build, in a new way, | :41:58. | :42:05. | |
in a much more inclusive approach, not just a political programme, | :42:06. | :42:08. | |
but a very precise roadmap with the people to propose | :42:09. | :42:13. | |
to the country on the basis Working with people coming | :42:14. | :42:16. | |
from the right, people And to propose that to the country | :42:17. | :42:24. | |
and try to deliver. When you speak like that, | :42:25. | :42:28. | |
you remind me very much I do not know in your mouth | :42:29. | :42:31. | |
if it is a promise or a threat. If you were persuaded that | :42:32. | :42:42. | |
you were the person to stop Marine Le Pen becoming | :42:43. | :42:49. | |
the next French president, I do not want to enter | :42:50. | :42:51. | |
into such a discussion. Today I work as a minister | :42:52. | :42:59. | |
of the economy for this government. I work very hard because I want | :43:00. | :43:02. | |
to deliver for my country. I launched this movement | :43:03. | :43:05. | |
because I think we have to go beyond and deliver much | :43:06. | :43:08. | |
more, full stop. I accept that but do you think | :43:09. | :43:11. | |
that President Hollande I think it is much too far | :43:12. | :43:13. | |
before the election. It is very tough in all countries | :43:14. | :43:21. | |
to govern today. I think, if he makes | :43:22. | :43:25. | |
a very bold decision, if he explains what he's doing, | :43:26. | :43:28. | |
you definitely could No, I think one year | :43:29. | :43:31. | |
before, it is impossible. Minister, thank you very | :43:32. | :43:41. | |
much for talking to us. The French Economy Minister, | :43:42. | :43:43. | |
Emmanuel Macron. All around the country this week, | :43:44. | :43:47. | |
this leaflet has been dropping It's cost the government ?9 million | :43:48. | :43:50. | |
to tell us directly why we should Last week, Lord Lawson told me this | :43:51. | :43:56. | |
was outrageous propaganda, so I'm going to put some | :43:57. | :44:01. | |
of the points in it to a supporter of us leaving the EU, | :44:02. | :44:05. | |
Cabinet minister Chris Grayling. Would you regard this thing is | :44:06. | :44:16. | |
propaganda, or a fear start to the Eichmann? What IMAX -- what I am | :44:17. | :44:20. | |
experiencing now among the people who have received it, they see it as | :44:21. | :44:26. | |
part of the campaign and not the dispassionately flipped. They are | :44:27. | :44:30. | |
treating it as part of the remaining campaign. It is not being treated by | :44:31. | :44:35. | |
voters out there as an independent, authoritative document. They are | :44:36. | :44:40. | |
rightly sceptical about it. It seems to me that it is not strong in its | :44:41. | :44:44. | |
language, it is not making wild claims. It says things like, the EU | :44:45. | :44:51. | |
is by far the UK's biggest trading partner. EU countries by 44% of | :44:52. | :44:57. | |
everything we sell abroad. We are one of their biggest trading | :44:58. | :45:01. | |
partners. One of the points we do not hear from the campaign to remain | :45:02. | :45:05. | |
is that we buy far more from the European Union than they buy from | :45:06. | :45:09. | |
us. It is interesting to hear Emmanuel Macron about their possibly | :45:10. | :45:13. | |
being consequences for Britain. This man certainly appears to want to be | :45:14. | :45:17. | |
the next president of France. In 12 months' time he may be election | :45:18. | :45:21. | |
needing to become the next president of France. French farmers depend on | :45:22. | :45:27. | |
British consumers and supermarkets for their sales. Do you honestly | :45:28. | :45:31. | |
think he will be saying to those farmers, who are pretty feisty | :45:32. | :45:36. | |
bunch, I will put English -- in jeopardy the religion ship between | :45:37. | :45:40. | |
France and your key market? It is not going to happen. If he does a | :45:41. | :45:44. | |
generous deal with the UK after Brexit, other countries in the EU | :45:45. | :45:50. | |
will say, we want what the British have have, and you will start to get | :45:51. | :45:51. | |
an unravelling? It depends what you mean by | :45:52. | :45:56. | |
generous. All we intend to do It depends what you mean by | :45:57. | :46:03. | |
simply carry on trading. David Cameron sat on this set | :46:04. | :46:06. | |
simply carry on trading. David of January and said of course we | :46:07. | :46:07. | |
will buy far more from them than they do | :46:08. | :46:14. | |
from us, and millions of jobs depend on British consumers to buy their | :46:15. | :46:17. | |
products. The question is what of trading, and this leaflet makes | :46:18. | :46:20. | |
the point that of trading, and this leaflet makes | :46:21. | :46:28. | |
says are linked to exports from the EU and part of that is membership of | :46:29. | :46:33. | |
the single market. I keep asking people on your side of the argument | :46:34. | :46:37. | |
whether we would or would not be in the single market. I have no doubt | :46:38. | :46:42. | |
we would carry on trading tariff free. That means a single market. | :46:43. | :46:55. | |
There's examples of that. When we lost a van plant to Turkey, Turkey | :46:56. | :47:06. | |
is not allowed free movement of the EU so it is a nonsense to suggest we | :47:07. | :47:08. | |
cannot do a deal that will carry EU so it is a nonsense to suggest we | :47:09. | :47:14. | |
allowing us to trade with the EU and carry on allowing | :47:15. | :47:21. | |
allowing us to trade with the EU and products. Lord Lawson said | :47:22. | :47:23. | |
allowing us to trade with the EU and leaving the EU there would be | :47:24. | :47:24. | |
tariffs of up leaving the EU there would be | :47:25. | :47:32. | |
a candidate in the general election leaving the EU there would be | :47:33. | :47:42. | |
our products more expensive so makes no sense. We are talking about | :47:43. | :47:47. | |
a political elite here, not makes no sense. We are talking about | :47:48. | :47:52. | |
voters, people who are committed makes no sense. We are talking about | :47:53. | :47:57. | |
the EU as a project and they think if we leave the EU project starts to | :47:58. | :48:02. | |
go backwards and therefore they would punish us. The Germans and | :48:03. | :48:06. | |
French and everybody who have said if you want access to the single | :48:07. | :48:10. | |
market that is fine but you have got to stump up some money and I accept | :48:11. | :48:15. | |
free movement of people. Their vision is one of the reasons we have | :48:16. | :48:21. | |
to leave. They have set up a single currency, all commentators say there | :48:22. | :48:23. | |
has to be more currency, all commentators say there | :48:24. | :48:27. | |
euro zone if they are to survive. Emmanuel Macron himself | :48:28. | :48:28. | |
euro zone if they are to survive. political union. What does that look | :48:29. | :48:34. | |
in ten years, it is a big block of countries in | :48:35. | :48:39. | |
in ten years, it is a big block of together, merging pension systems | :48:40. | :48:43. | |
and security systems, then there's two bits on the outside, us and | :48:44. | :48:48. | |
Denmark. Does anybody think our voice will carry any sway at all in | :48:49. | :48:51. | |
that situation? voice will carry any sway at all in | :48:52. | :48:55. | |
issue, we won't be part of what they do but if we stay in the European | :48:56. | :48:59. | |
Union we will have no control over what happens in our country. The | :49:00. | :49:04. | |
Prime Minister would say but hold on a second, I renegotiated a lot of | :49:05. | :49:08. | |
this, we will not be part of the single currency or ever closer | :49:09. | :49:14. | |
union. I have guarantees and I brought them back to this country. | :49:15. | :49:17. | |
But nothing changes from the way the European Union makes its laws about | :49:18. | :49:23. | |
what happens in this country. Of course the role of the European | :49:24. | :49:29. | |
court of justice has told us how we have to classify an asylum seeker in | :49:30. | :49:33. | |
this country. That will carry on, their decisions will be binding, so | :49:34. | :49:37. | |
we are very much in a position where a huge swathes of our laws are being | :49:38. | :49:42. | |
made in Brussels, will carry on being made in Brussels, so we will | :49:43. | :49:48. | |
still see more of our power is going to Brussels. I don't know if you | :49:49. | :49:55. | |
heard Emmanuel Macron there also talking about the agreement that | :49:56. | :49:59. | |
keeps migrants trying to get through France into the UK in Calais and has | :50:00. | :50:04. | |
produced the camp and jungle and so forth. He says again that will go. | :50:05. | :50:09. | |
This is a great red herring. The French interior Minister has said | :50:10. | :50:15. | |
very clearly that won't change. It is a bilateral agreement between | :50:16. | :50:19. | |
Britain and France, it is nothing to do with the EU. One of the reasons | :50:20. | :50:23. | |
we don't have lots of refugee camps around Heathrow Airport is that we | :50:24. | :50:26. | |
say to carriers you need to check before someone gets on board that | :50:27. | :50:30. | |
they have a right to come to Britain. We would simply do the same | :50:31. | :50:37. | |
to the cross-channel chains. Lots of people would turn up in France and | :50:38. | :50:41. | |
discover actually there wasn't a way to Britain and France would have a | :50:42. | :50:45. | |
bigger refugee problem than it does now. The French interior minister | :50:46. | :50:49. | |
recognised it won't happen and said that treaty will stay in place. The | :50:50. | :50:53. | |
current president and future potential present don't agree with | :50:54. | :50:57. | |
that, but you are saying we would have full free trade with the rest | :50:58. | :51:02. | |
of the EU without having to pay up or accept free movement. For the | :51:03. | :51:07. | |
rest of the EU, that seems like an extraordinary deal and if they give | :51:08. | :51:11. | |
it to us why wouldn't everyone else wanted? And if they do the entire | :51:12. | :51:16. | |
system falls to pieces, which may be a good thing, I don't know, but they | :51:17. | :51:21. | |
are worried about that. We keep talking about our access to their | :51:22. | :51:25. | |
market. There are millions of European jobs that depend on British | :51:26. | :51:31. | |
consumers so it is about their access to all market. I want them to | :51:32. | :51:36. | |
be able to continue to sell BMW cars, French cheeses tariff free in | :51:37. | :51:41. | |
the UK because that is good for Europe and the relationship between | :51:42. | :51:45. | |
us but it is not a one-way process. We are their biggest customers, we | :51:46. | :51:50. | |
buy far more from them than they do from us and losing that business | :51:51. | :51:55. | |
would be disastrous for producers across the European Union. I think | :51:56. | :52:01. | |
you are speaking, seeing this as a logical free trade thing, whereas | :52:02. | :52:05. | |
they are Europhile Brussels-based politicians with a political agenda | :52:06. | :52:12. | |
of their own which makes it much less likely if we were to leave. | :52:13. | :52:17. | |
They are politicians that need to be elected. Emmanuel Macron maybe the | :52:18. | :52:24. | |
French political candidate next year. Does anybody think he will say | :52:25. | :52:36. | |
to farmers that they cannot sell to us? The people on the other side of | :52:37. | :52:42. | |
the argument from you include IMF, big business and surely President | :52:43. | :52:46. | |
Obama coming over here. Do you agree with Boris Johnson that he is a | :52:47. | :52:51. | |
hypocrite? I don't think President Obama will tolerate a situation | :52:52. | :52:55. | |
where the United States gave away as much of its sovereignty as we have | :52:56. | :53:00. | |
to Brussels. It is inconceivable. So this is naked hypocrisy. In my view | :53:01. | :53:06. | |
he perhaps doesn't understand the nature of the transfer of power that | :53:07. | :53:11. | |
has taken place but if Americans truly knew how much of our national | :53:12. | :53:14. | |
sovereignty resided in Brussels they would never argue we should stay. It | :53:15. | :53:20. | |
is basically ignorance on his part, not hypocrisy? I can only think he | :53:21. | :53:26. | |
doesn't realise. The IMF has a wonderful track record of | :53:27. | :53:29. | |
forecasting the British economy. Two years ago their chief economist | :53:30. | :53:34. | |
accused George Osborne of playing with fire with his economic strategy | :53:35. | :53:37. | |
and 12 months later they had to apologise because they got it so | :53:38. | :53:42. | |
wrong. You have no big international organisations on your side, do you? | :53:43. | :53:47. | |
You have got to follow the money. What is happening right now, in the | :53:48. | :53:51. | |
middle of this debate the German stock exchange has chosen to spend | :53:52. | :53:56. | |
billions of euros to buying into the London stock exchange. Avon is | :53:57. | :53:59. | |
choosing to locate its headquarters in Britain. Where decisions are | :54:00. | :54:05. | |
being taken, they are not in line with what people are saying in the | :54:06. | :54:10. | |
debate, they are coming to Britain. With David Davis I was talking about | :54:11. | :54:17. | |
if we voted to leave what would happen to the Prime Minister. You | :54:18. | :54:29. | |
are the people saying it should be done,... I want David Cameron to | :54:30. | :54:34. | |
stay, not only because he is a good Prime Minister but because he has | :54:35. | :54:36. | |
the relationships we need around Europe to build a negotiating | :54:37. | :54:40. | |
process. It would be disastrous in my view if we vote to leave and then | :54:41. | :54:46. | |
get distracted by a leadership contest. And do you want him to | :54:47. | :54:53. | |
renegotiate? I want him to be part of a team. Thank you for joining us | :54:54. | :54:57. | |
today. Now over to Christian | :54:58. | :54:59. | |
for the news headlines. At least 77 people have been killed | :55:00. | :55:01. | |
following a powerful earthquake off The epicentre was 27 kilometres | :55:02. | :55:04. | |
from the coastal town of Muisne, A state of emergency has been | :55:05. | :55:08. | |
declared across much The French Economy Minister has | :55:09. | :55:11. | |
confirmed that his Government is committed to the construction | :55:12. | :55:15. | |
of a new nuclear power station The ?18 billion cost of the project | :55:16. | :55:17. | |
had meant that some doubt But Emmanuel Macron told this | :55:18. | :55:21. | |
programme that EDF Energy, which is controlled by the French | :55:22. | :55:25. | |
state, has full political backing The political con movement is | :55:26. | :55:43. | |
completely confirmed. It is very important for France, it is very | :55:44. | :55:49. | |
important for EDF. The next news on BBC One | :55:50. | :55:51. | |
is at one o'clock. First, let's have a look at what's | :55:52. | :55:54. | |
coming up immediately At ten we will be asking if public | :55:55. | :56:05. | |
figures including MPs have a right to privacy. Will the Catholic Church | :56:06. | :56:09. | |
only change when women get more power? And finally, does God care | :56:10. | :56:12. | |
what you wear? On the Sunday Politics in an hour, | :56:13. | :56:14. | |
Andrew Neil talks to Next week, for one week only, | :56:15. | :56:20. | |
we'll be on BBC Two, because of coverage | :56:21. | :56:24. | |
of the London Marathon. Do join me - BBC Two, nine o'clock - | :56:25. | :56:26. | |
when I'm delighted to say I'll be talking to that legend of song | :56:27. | :56:30. | |
writing Paul Simon, and the actor For now, we leave you with | :56:31. | :56:33. | |
the cellist Guy Johnston. It's just been announced that Guy | :56:34. | :56:36. | |
will be performing two Prom concerts He's here for us now with some Bach | :56:37. | :56:40. | |
- the bourree | :56:41. | :56:55. |