22/05/2016 The Andrew Marr Show


22/05/2016

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Hard fact: the National Health Service is at least

:00:07.:00:09.

It's a huge crisis for the government and today the NHS

:00:10.:00:16.

takes centre stage as well in the argument over

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Simon Stevens, chief executive of the NHS in England, joins me live

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this morning when I'll be asking him about the financial crisis,

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and whether the NHS would fare better or worse if we left the EU.

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I'm joined as well by Penny Mordaunt, Defence Minister,

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who warns that an extra million people will come here

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And the comedian Eddie Izzard, touring 31 British cities

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With the best stories from the Sunday papers and online,

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I'm joined by Iain Martin, editor of the CapX political comment

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website, and Sarah Baxter, deputy editor of the Sunday Times.

:01:21.:01:23.

Also this morning: I've been talking to Kit Harington about his star turn

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as Doctor Faustus on stage, and asking if his Game Of Thrones

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You would not put it past them. Episode five, I suddenly die again.

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Is that an ominous hint of things to come?

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Plus, we have music from protest singer PJ Harvey's

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# The community of hope. # The community of hope.

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Lots to come, but first the news, with Roger Johnson.

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The US military has carried out an air strike against the leader

:02:12.:02:17.

of the Afghan Taliban, and they believe he's likely

:02:18.:02:19.

Several drones were used to target Mullah Akhtar Mansour in a vehicle

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in a remote area of Pakistan, close to the Afghan border.

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The strike against Mullah Akhtar Mansour took place in a remote area

:02:28.:02:33.

near the Afghan border, just inside Pakistani territory.

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The strike, carried out by drones, targeted a vehicle

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carrying the Taliban leader and another passenger.

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The attack is said to have been authorised by President Obama.

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It is potentially a significant blow to group which the Pentagon says has

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In a statement, the Pentagon spokesman Peter Cook said:

:02:53.:03:07.

He is also accused of being an obstacle to peace,

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by preventing Taliban leaders from taking part in talks

:03:12.:03:13.

with the Afghan government that could lead to an

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Mansour has been the Taliban leader since July last year,

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after the group confirmed the death of their founder, Mullah

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The Egyptian military has published photos of the debris

:03:26.:03:35.

of EgyptAir flight 804, which crashed en-route

:03:36.:03:37.

Pictures include plane seats and life jackets.

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Search teams are still trying to locate the main body of the plane

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and the two black boxes somewhere in the eastern Mediterranean.

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Austria could become the first EU country to elect a far right

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Last month, Norbert Hofer, from the Freedom Party,

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won the first round of voting for the mainly ceremonial post.

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It's thought that support for his party has risen because of fears

:04:03.:04:05.

The BBC understands that Manchester United are likely

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to appoint Jose Mourinho as their new manager

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It's believed a deal was struck with the former Chelsea boss

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to replace Louis Van Gaal before United's FA Cup final win over

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Van Gaal has led United since 2014, and still had another year left

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Thanks. It is a very busy morning in the papers. The Sunday Times has

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seen a sneak preview of the Chilcot Report, coming out in July, which it

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says will savage Tony Blair and Jack Straw as well as the journals.

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Inside the Sunday Times, two former chiefs of the NHS said it breaks it

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would hurt the NHS badly. We will talk about that war. And another

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story to cheer the heart of David Cameron, high Street bosses, prices

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to soar if we leave the EU. The Mail On Sunday on form this morning. The

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main Brexit heavyweight newspaper, the Telegraph, trade wars memo shows

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the EU is costing the UK billions of pounds, it says. There is also

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something about Turkey this morning. The Observer has a story. Penny

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Mordaunt is the defence minister who will talk about this. Allegations

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there is going to be a Turkish crimewave, 1 million Turks coming

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here within eight years. This is the take of the Observer. There is a

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more extreme take in the Sunday Express, 12 million tax will come to

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the UK. Lott likes -- lots to talk about. We can get tied up in a row

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and details in politics. The Observer says that 50 million people

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in Africa are facing starvation after a massive new famine there.

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Iain, we will start with the Sunday Times. It is nice to see a newspaper

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splashing on something which is not a row about Brexit or the European

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Union. That is how we felt last night as we put it to bed. It is a

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reminder that out there, later this summer, is this political iceberg.

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It looks like when Chilcot is published it will do the reputations

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of lots of people lots of damage. 1.I would make, will it change

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anyone's mind about what happened in Iraq in 2003? I dated. There was an

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interesting column in the Times saying it is the wrong war, we

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should be talking about our failure is in Syria, not just about Iraq.

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That is right. We want this report is we can learn the lessons but we

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have waited many years for it, I fear it is too late. Interestingly,

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what we learned is that the biggest part of the report will be on the

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postinvasion worlds of Iraq, and how we failed in southern Iraq might and

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Basra, and at one stage we were patting ourselves on the back, how

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well we could manage counterinsurgency and we made a

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terrible mess. It is the equivalent of publishing an enquiry into what

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happened in Suez in 1970. That is how ludicrous it is. So much has

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happened. I remember people talking about once we had invaded Iraq, it

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would be Minnesota with palm trees, a camel, American-style democracy.

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The Mail On Sunday is in pretty fervent pro remain, I said Leave,

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because I got confused. There is lots of talk about rivalries between

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the Daily Mail and the Mail On Sunday. I got the feeling that this

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weekend the Mail On Sunday showed -- so that the Remain camp was ahead

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and they are jumping firmly into it with two three. This warning from

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high Street bosses, prices to rise if we quit the EU. Why is everyone

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against this? It is getting silly on both sides? Yes. You look at the

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splash in the Sunday Express. 12 million Turks say they will come to

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the UK. That is 16% of the Turkish population, they are expected to

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leave and come to the UK. Turkey has been a remarkably successful and

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stable country in its own right. There are questions of whether we

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should have Turkey and save the EU, given its record and the fact that

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is the buffer to the Far East. David Cameron is saying that Turkey is not

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coming into the EU, but Penny Mordaunt will argue it is. We are

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getting to the heart of it, the endgame of the EU referendum

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campaign. Over the next four weeks, it is clear that questions of

:09:13.:09:15.

migration will move to the top of the agenda. It is migration against

:09:16.:09:21.

economy at the moment. There is a wonderful clip which has been all

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over the Internet, from a documentary, Boris Johnson

:09:27.:09:28.

advocating Turkey coming into the EU. We can see a moment of it. 1000

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years ago, at this place was not on the perimeter of Europe, it was the

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centre of European civilisation. What will be safe we perpetually

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keep Turkey out of the European Union because it is Muslim? Are we

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really saying about ourselves and Europe that it must be for ever

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against anything with nothing to do with Christendom. Try going to

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Bradford and saying that. On the other hand, bidders will worry about

:09:59.:10:01.

massive numbers of people coming in. I had to reason me on. The

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government does not seem to have an answer to the Brexit argument that

:10:06.:10:10.

if we stay in, there will be millions of people coming over the

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next 30 years. -- I had the Home Secretary on. It is a killer

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argument for the Brexit campaign. It comes with dangers. As certain kind

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of voter, if they here that, the here and races dog whistle and do

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not want to be associated. It is very high risk by Brexit. The risks

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that are being taken are being taken by some of the politicians involved

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as well. There is a terrific piece talking about Boris and posing the

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question, in this referendum campaign, has bodies blown eight?

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Has he done fatal harm to his leadership ambitions? There is a

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wonderful line at the end. He says, while Boris's cavalier style can be

:10:57.:11:01.

attractive, it is worth remembering the Roundheads eventually won the

:11:02.:11:07.

Civil War. There is a ruthless discipline at the moment. I love

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that clip. Is Boris Patrick Leach in his ancestry? There is a bit in

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there somewhere. He does not sound Turkish, but I think he might be.

:11:17.:11:23.

The other big story is the NHS. You have two former NHS bosses saying,

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leave the EU and all will be tenable for the NHS. It is odd. The Brexit

:11:29.:11:33.

campaigners are saying, here was ?10 billion you can have. If you believe

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that the Eurosceptic Brexiteers are the sort of people to pour lots of

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money into the NHS, you're in fantasy land. On the other hand, if

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you believe that leaving is going to seriously affect the NHS, you make

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equally be. It is interesting what these chief executives of the NHS

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say. Their argument is that we are staffed by lots of European doctors

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and nurses. They are saying it is a risk, why take the risk? Also, you

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can set your watch by this in general election campaigns and

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referendums. With two or three weeks to go, both sides start to invoke

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the NHS, this great sacred cow. They say if you do not vote one way or

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the other the NHS will be destroyed. At this moment, the junior doctors

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have settled with Jeremy Hunt so we are going to get the seven-day NHS.

:12:30.:12:33.

It looks like the consultants have done the same. It is a big moment.

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Yes, things are finally going the way of the patients. It is a good

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thing. We want the seven-day NHS. It is something the Sunday Times has

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campaigned for. Consultants are resistant, but there is too might

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jeopardise a family is not getting the right treatment. If you fall ill

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on a Friday night or Saturday night. Iain, saving your blushes, CapX is

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one of those sites I go to quite a lot. You have some great writing.

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You have chosen one of your stories that is about to be posted. Thank

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you. It has just been posted. I have been struck by these extreme skier

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stories on either side. -- skier stories. It was written by the

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Conservative MP representing the City of London, Markfield. It is a

:13:25.:13:33.

nice piece. He is acknowledging that the city would survive, even those

:13:34.:13:41.

years for Remain, he is not saying it would shut down within six months

:13:42.:13:46.

of Brexit Broad. That is one thing that is probably annoying lots of

:13:47.:13:50.

voters, there is no room for subtlety in this debate. It is

:13:51.:13:55.

becoming very polarised. Some people will be watching this and saying,

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what is CapX, what is the philosophy behind it? It is the world analysed

:14:00.:14:05.

in Tech -- intelligently from a pro-market perspective. We write

:14:06.:14:11.

about politics globally. We know where the Sunday Times comes from.

:14:12.:14:15.

In terms of the great reads into the's papers, there is a wonderful

:14:16.:14:21.

piece into the's observer. It is long and reflective. It talks about

:14:22.:14:25.

an important moment in the endless fight between big Tobacco and

:14:26.:14:27.

government health people on the other. As of this week, we will see

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all tobacco brands, those things we used to carry around, Marlborough

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and Kallis camels, they will vanish. It will be plain green packets. It

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is really interesting. It is fascinating. Big Tobacco has lost

:14:43.:14:50.

this battle. What it does not quite get into is what is coming next. Big

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Tobacco is not stupid. It is investing tonnes of money and trying

:14:58.:15:03.

to invent products which are not... With raping. -- vaping.

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Your best story of the week? One piece of writing from today's

:15:14.:15:20.

papers, you have chosen Nick Cohen? Nick Cohen has an magnificent column

:15:21.:15:25.

on Venezuela and the left, pointing out it is only a couple of years ago

:15:26.:15:32.

that Chavez's Venezuela was held up as this great icon. I have chosen

:15:33.:15:38.

related to that this fantastic piece from Caracas on exactly what has

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gone wrong on the ground. If you have but a few minutes, folks, read

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that? Sarah, the other thing to talk about is Africa. I was saying

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earlier we get obsessed by what is happening in British politics but

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around the world bigger things are happening of all kinds and cry out

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to the Observer for spending a lot of time on 50 million people facing

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famine after crops failed in Africa caused by El Nino. No rain, and

:16:06.:16:14.

meagre harvest, El Nino ravaging the continent. We always pay attention

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when it is too late so it is worth drawing attention to this and

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saying, help, this is something that is really serious going on and very

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few people are talking about it. Any final thoughts before we finish the

:16:28.:16:31.

paper review? Equipped boat, I want to shout out a cover story in the

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Sunday Times Magazine about why young women, beautiful, qualified,

:16:37.:16:41.

gorgeous, are boyfriend lives in their 20s, a phenomenon out there in

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the world. Lots of people out there saying, me, I can help! Thank you

:16:46.:16:50.

both, fascinating. You might think that after running 27 marathons in

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as many days the comic Eddie Izzard would want a rest.

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Tomorrow he embarks on a 31-city tour of the UK to drum up support

:16:58.:17:02.

for the campaign to remain in the EU.

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Thank you for coming on. It has been much talked about in this campaign,

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people talk about Project Fear on one side and Project Fear on the

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other but you are one of the relatively few people in public life

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who is prepared to say, I love the EU and this is why? I would not turn

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it that way, I'm positive on the EU, the EU has given me huge

:17:24.:17:28.

opportunities to work and travel throughout the whole of Europe and I

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want every young person, particularly young people, to be

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able to have the same opportunities. Older people as well but young

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people need to get registered and June seven is coming up so I will be

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gunning to 31 cities to say to young people that they just need to get

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their smartphones, two minutes on this, get registered by the 7th of

:18:03.:18:05.

June. It is the biggest decision of their lives and I don't want other

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people to tell them how the future should happen. Get registered so you

:18:09.:18:11.

can make your vote. Let me get personal, you are a man of a certain

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age, why would young people be listening to you? I don't know! If

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you ask young people, I had people saying at the last election, we

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should get you talking to young people. I am older than them! Maybe

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because I came out as transgender at 31 years old, I now tore in French,

:18:23.:18:27.

I too would Germany in German, I have just started Spanish, ran 27

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marathons in 27 days, I do a lot of positive things which are quite

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young orientated. In here I'm very young. And you are wearing a very

:18:39.:18:44.

nice beret, I must say. I have my two badges on their, British and

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European, I'm proud of being both. If young people care about the pound

:18:49.:18:53.

in a pocket then I think it is good, economically, to stay in the

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European Union and to travel, for the low-cost fares, for the roaming

:18:58.:19:01.

charges, and their health care all across Europe. They should stay in

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Europe. This is the week in which lots of actors and others from the

:19:06.:19:09.

arts community signed up alongside David Cameron in deep Remain

:19:10.:19:14.

campaign and a bucket of Royal Portrush per the paper said, we

:19:15.:19:18.

don't want love bees to talk to us. Why would we go to actors and

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comedians for advice? I cannot even spell the word love these! --

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luvvies. I try to be positive, 27 marathons in 27 days, I have been

:19:36.:19:39.

openly political for some time, this is not something new I have come up

:19:40.:19:43.

with. Would you describe yourself as a radical moderate? I do radical

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things with a moderate message, you know? If you saw the double marathon

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on the last day in South Africa, that was slightly radical... Very

:19:55.:20:03.

radical! But it raised 2.3 million, it is a moderate message, it helps

:20:04.:20:07.

around the world. You are standing for the national executive, I don't

:20:08.:20:10.

know if you are a Jeremy Corbyn support or not but after the polls

:20:11.:20:15.

of Labour Party members this week Corbyn is completely unassailable as

:20:16.:20:20.

your leader until the election? He is in 40 Remain group and so am I,

:20:21.:20:24.

on the same side, fighting away. I just want to encourage people in

:20:25.:20:27.

this election, this referendum that is coming up, sorry, that they get

:20:28.:20:33.

registered and get voting. A lot of young people don't know that it is

:20:34.:20:36.

happening, the 7th of June, only two weeks away. That is the registration

:20:37.:20:42.

date? I'm hammering the registration date, because once they are

:20:43.:20:45.

registered they can make up their minds. You mentioned transgender and

:20:46.:20:53.

so forth... Really, here?! There is a big argument on university

:20:54.:20:56.

campuses at the moment, there have been traditional feminists on one

:20:57.:21:01.

side saying, we know what a woman is, transgender person cannot

:21:02.:21:04.

describe themselves as a woman, which has caused a huge out of anger

:21:05.:21:07.

in the transgender community, people very angry on both sides, so I

:21:08.:21:11.

wonder what your perspective is? Am not going to weigh in on this. It is

:21:12.:21:18.

difficult enough for us anyway. 31 years ago I walked out the door, I

:21:19.:21:22.

try to find an honest life, I have played with a straight bat all my

:21:23.:21:25.

life but I try to be open and honest, and surely it is better than

:21:26.:21:29.

closed and lying, and that is the same with the EU. I am digging in

:21:30.:21:34.

France, doing stand-up comedy year, so are the Germans, it is a

:21:35.:21:38.

beautiful thing, it is what humanity does. The EU is trying to be

:21:39.:21:48.

positive about humanity. I wish more politicians were as open and honest.

:21:49.:21:51.

Eddie izzard, thank you for coming on today.

:21:52.:21:52.

If one was looking for a pithy phrase about the weather this May,

:21:53.:21:56.

Will things improve over the coming days?

:21:57.:21:59.

Over to Jay Wynne in the weather studio.

:22:00.:22:03.

It is a mixed bag, some of us will keep the sun shone into the

:22:04.:22:09.

afternoon but that is not the full story. Wenbo showers, long they can

:22:10.:22:14.

be quite slow moving. We have seen a few showers in Wales and the South

:22:15.:22:18.

West today, they will drift eastward and are developing widely elsewhere.

:22:19.:22:22.

Spells of sunshine across the far south-west into the afternoon, it

:22:23.:22:26.

will take into the latter afternoon and evening before they arrive in

:22:27.:22:33.

the east. This evening showers continue to drift eastward and by

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the end of the night they are confined to sap -- East Anglia and

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the south-east. A chilly start to Monday but a bright one for many.

:22:50.:22:53.

Showers developing once again from the south-east of England to the

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Isle of Wight, along the spine of the UK into central Scotland. A

:22:59.:23:01.

chilly feel along the North Sea coast with a breeze coming in but

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further south and west, lighter winds and some sunshine, quite a

:23:06.:23:09.

nice day. Should be dry pretty much everywhere on Tuesday, variable

:23:10.:23:11.

cloud, a bit cooler with an easterly breeze.

:23:12.:23:15.

Just over a month to go until we vote in the EU referendum,

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and it's fair to say the campaign has not been entirely cheerful.

:23:19.:23:21.

Each side accuses the other of scare tactics, mangling the facts,

:23:22.:23:24.

Representing the Leave side, I'm joined now by the Defence Minister,

:23:25.:23:28.

You are on the front page of the Observer this morning warning that 1

:23:29.:23:37.

million people may come here from Turkey in the next eight years,

:23:38.:23:41.

which is strange because very few people expect Turkey to join the EU

:23:42.:23:45.

in the next eight years? I think it is very likely that they will partly

:23:46.:23:48.

because of the migrant crisis, which is escalating in Turkey in

:23:49.:23:53.

particular but other access in countries coming in. The Remain side

:23:54.:24:02.

and Vote Leave agree very much about Turkey and migrant numbers. The Home

:24:03.:24:06.

Secretary made a speech at early in the campaign which pointed to

:24:07.:24:11.

questioning the merits of the EU expanding and having a land border

:24:12.:24:16.

with Syria, Iraq and Iran. Your colleague Boris Johnson, as we just

:24:17.:24:22.

heard, is pro-Turkey joining the EU? What is dishonest is to say, to have

:24:23.:24:26.

a policy of expansion and then at the same time deny member state what

:24:27.:24:31.

they need to mitigate the security risk that comes with it. To raise a

:24:32.:24:36.

herself has pointed to the problems of terrorism and organised crime

:24:37.:24:41.

that is in these access and countries. Where we disagree is on

:24:42.:24:46.

two issues, the dishonesty about doing that and then denying us the

:24:47.:24:53.

tools to keep ourselves safe Mullah Akhtar Mansou Mullah Akhtar Mansou

:24:54.:24:54.

and secure, but also that the -- to keep ourselves safe and secure

:24:55.:25:07.

but that the referendum will be our last chance. The Government has a

:25:08.:25:12.

veto on Turkey joining so we don't have to let them join? No, it

:25:13.:25:16.

doesn't come at the British people are not... Thrones is something each

:25:17.:25:27.

country can veto if it wants to. I do not think the EU is going to keep

:25:28.:25:32.

Turkey at -- accession is something each country can veto. There are

:25:33.:25:39.

lots of other EU countries, sorry to interrupt. The expansion policy is

:25:40.:25:42.

one thing, if you are going to pursue that policy, and that is

:25:43.:25:47.

where we disagree with the Remain camp, you have got to and us the

:25:48.:25:51.

tools to protect our own interest and national security. That, we do

:25:52.:25:55.

not have. When it comes to the raw numbers and the way this has been

:25:56.:25:59.

framed, there has been talk from your site about the number of Turks

:26:00.:26:01.

who are criminals, who have guns and so on. It is like a dog

:26:02.:26:21.

whistle and at the beginning of this campaign there was a fight between

:26:22.:26:23.

Conservatives and Nigel Farage's campaign because you're not said,

:26:24.:26:26.

they will just go on and on about immigration, and here we are a few

:26:27.:26:29.

weeks before the vote and you are going on about immigration. Those

:26:30.:26:31.

facts and figures have been agreed by both sides of the debate. We are

:26:32.:26:34.

arguing that if you are going to have these policies and ever

:26:35.:26:36.

expanding the EU, you have to allow us to mitigate the security risk

:26:37.:26:39.

that comes with that. I think it was quite wrong that the British people

:26:40.:26:42.

will not be asked their view on this in the future. The referendum is our

:26:43.:26:45.

only chance to say, no, we disagree with that. There has been a lot of

:26:46.:26:49.

rumblings and were from Government ministers about what happens to the

:26:50.:26:54.

Conservative party after this, even suggestions there will be a spiteful

:26:55.:26:57.

reshuffle, people being kicked out if they were on the wrong side. Do

:26:58.:27:01.

you think this is getting overheated on both sides, are you worried what

:27:02.:27:04.

will happen to the Conservative family after the referendum? I'm

:27:05.:27:07.

not, the party will come together, and I'm

:27:08.:27:25.

not ashamed that there is passion on both sides in my party on this. I

:27:26.:27:28.

think it is a shame that there are lots of people in the world that

:27:29.:27:31.

want us to be frightened right now, but being frightened is not a way to

:27:32.:27:34.

live your life and certainly not a basis for making a decision. What I

:27:35.:27:37.

would say to the public, and I understand how annoyed they are at

:27:38.:27:39.

the scaremongering and falls reports that have been coming from the

:27:40.:27:42.

Remain side, what I would say to them is, look at what is happening,

:27:43.:27:44.

look at the job figures this week, at the money pouring into the city.

:27:45.:27:47.

We are one month from the referendum, there are no jitters on

:27:48.:27:50.

the economy. Also, trust your common sense, the great British common. Our

:27:51.:27:52.

friends and Germany going to stop cooperating with us on trade and

:27:53.:27:55.

security? No, because it benefits them and us. Let me raise something

:27:56.:27:59.

else you have talked about, the effect on the NHS of staying inside

:28:00.:28:04.

the EU. We have had two former bosses of the NHS righted in the

:28:05.:28:09.

papers today saying the NHS would be badly hit if we leave the EU. Why

:28:10.:28:14.

are they wrong? What is your message to Simon Stevens, for instance? For

:28:15.:28:18.

the NHS to drive, it needs to things. If we left the EU we would

:28:19.:28:23.

have the ?10 billion dividend, and extra money is always helpful, but

:28:24.:28:26.

it needs something else as well. Would that go to the NHS? It would

:28:27.:28:31.

be for future governments to decide but I think the British public would

:28:32.:28:35.

put the NHS and social care around it pretty high at the top of their

:28:36.:28:39.

list of priorities, if not at the top. Money is important, we would

:28:40.:28:42.

have more chance of spending more money on the NHS with that dividend,

:28:43.:28:47.

but I think it needs something else as well, and this has been a problem

:28:48.:28:52.

historically for the NHS. It needs the ability to plan better, and the

:28:53.:28:56.

problem with uncontrolled immigration is that it is impossible

:28:57.:29:00.

for our public services to plan, whether it is our hospitals and 80

:29:01.:29:03.

and the particular which was affected by this, or school place

:29:04.:29:08.

provision, it is very difficult unless you can have control, control

:29:09.:29:13.

the numbers coming in, and you can give our public services some chance

:29:14.:29:16.

of making the provision that they need. Do you think it is wrong for

:29:17.:29:22.

senior civil servants that are involved in the NHS to be involved

:29:23.:29:27.

in a debate like this, or is it fair for the governor of the Bank of

:29:28.:29:31.

England, the chief executive of the NHS, to becoming bold in this

:29:32.:29:34.

national debate? I think the public have got tired of this constant

:29:35.:29:39.

stream of hysteria from the establishment. I think that we are

:29:40.:29:43.

going to get more of this but it is not going to have traction with the

:29:44.:29:47.

public. They are fed up of it. There have been some exceptional

:29:48.:29:52.

interventions, my colleague pointed to Mark Carney's intervention, which

:29:53.:29:57.

I think was the tipping point, if you like, when people realised

:29:58.:30:00.

actually there is another agenda going on. You think there is an

:30:01.:30:04.

establishment stitch up? I think so. I think the public are seeing

:30:05.:30:11.

through this, and I think that moment in our history, 1939, 1982,

:30:12.:30:23.

we have gone against the orthodoxy of the establishment, we have stood

:30:24.:30:27.

up and said, no, we are not going to be a nation of followers, we are

:30:28.:30:31.

going to be a nation of leaders and that is what needs to happen in this

:30:32.:30:35.

referendum. The Prime Minister would say we have lead in Europe on big

:30:36.:30:38.

security issues, standing up to Putin and so forth, we have been

:30:39.:30:42.

important that. There is such a thing as the West, and is leaving

:30:43.:30:47.

the EU does help to fragment the West at what is a dangerous time. We

:30:48.:30:49.

have enemies out there. Without democracy at the heart of

:30:50.:31:00.

Europe's institutions, the idea of the strong, secure, peaceful Europe

:31:01.:31:03.

is dead. We need democracy to be restored to the heart of Europe. The

:31:04.:31:09.

EU, on its current trajectory, is totally counter to that. Byars

:31:10.:31:14.

voting to leave, biased voting to get a better deal for ourselves, and

:31:15.:31:19.

what we need to thrive, we will also be providing that leadership that

:31:20.:31:24.

gives other European nations the permission to say, me, too. It is a

:31:25.:31:29.

coming together of democracies. I want to return to this. I am pretty

:31:30.:31:33.

sure we do have a veto over stopping Turkey if we want to. I think, with

:31:34.:31:38.

the current situation, the migrant crisis and other issues that are

:31:39.:31:42.

going on in Europe at the moment, that we will be unable to stop

:31:43.:31:50.

Turkey joining. You think we will be bullied into it? I think the British

:31:51.:31:53.

public, this is a matter for the British people to decide. The only

:31:54.:31:56.

chance they will get to express a view on this is in this referendum.

:31:57.:32:00.

If we not -- if we do not want Turkey in, we can stop Turkey from

:32:01.:32:05.

coming? I do not think the UK will be able to stop Turkey from joining.

:32:06.:32:10.

Penny Mordaunt, thank you very much for talking to me.

:32:11.:32:13.

Game Of Thrones has transformed from a cult TV show into the most

:32:14.:32:16.

Part of that runaway global success is down to Kit Harington.

:32:17.:32:22.

His smouldering turn as Jon Snow in the series has made him one

:32:23.:32:25.

The character's death and resurrection earlier this year

:32:26.:32:28.

I caught up with Kit on stage in London where he's currently

:32:29.:32:33.

playing Doctor Faustus in a controversial version

:32:34.:32:34.

But first, naturally, we talked Thrones!

:32:35.:32:44.

What do you want me to do with this?

:32:45.:32:57.

I think every now and again something comes along

:32:58.:33:17.

At the right time and the right place, at first with Thrones,

:33:18.:33:25.

I think it is just brilliantly written.

:33:26.:33:29.

And it reaches out in a way that lots of television does not.

:33:30.:33:39.

Tell us the story, I think you had an encounter with a traffic

:33:40.:33:42.

policeman recently which proved the point.

:33:43.:33:43.

This was a little while ago, when I had just died on Thrones.

:33:44.:33:50.

Spoilers had not yet been brought back.

:33:51.:33:53.

This policeman pulled me over at the side of the

:33:54.:33:56.

He said to me, do you know how fast you were going, sir?

:33:57.:34:03.

I said, yes, officer, I am terribly sorry.

:34:04.:34:09.

He said, there are two ways we can deal with this,

:34:10.:34:13.

you can follow me to the station now and we can book you in and it

:34:14.:34:17.

will be at least a fine if not more, or you can tell me whether you're

:34:18.:34:21.

alive in the next season of Game Of Thrones.

:34:22.:34:23.

I laughed like you just laughed, and he was completely stony faced.

:34:24.:34:29.

He said, I have to tell you what happens next, whether I take

:34:30.:34:32.

you into the station depends on what your answer is.

:34:33.:34:34.

And he said, on your way, Lord Commander.

:34:35.:34:39.

We are post-spoiler, you have come back.

:34:40.:34:44.

Presumably you're going to stick with it for a while.

:34:45.:34:47.

They are not going to kill you off again.

:34:48.:34:49.

You would not put it past them though.

:34:50.:34:53.

Episode five of Game Of Thrones, I suddenly die again.

:34:54.:34:58.

Jon Snow will get really cocky because now he is immortal,

:34:59.:35:01.

You're in a very strange area with Game Of Thrones.

:35:02.:35:06.

It could dominate your life for many years to come yet.

:35:07.:35:08.

Is that a scary or unpleasant prospect?

:35:09.:35:12.

I hope it does not and I know it will not.

:35:13.:35:19.

Any good TV show must be like any good book, like any good

:35:20.:35:22.

Kit Marlowe, after whom I think you were named, Christopher Marlowe,

:35:23.:35:42.

was, if anybody was, the nearest to a Game Of Thrones

:35:43.:35:45.

writer, he is the one that does the sex, the violence,

:35:46.:35:47.

the full on gore on stage, so there is a connection

:35:48.:35:50.

He was very controversial in his time.

:35:51.:35:54.

This play, Faustus was very much the horror movie of its era.

:35:55.:35:59.

Everyone believed in real demons, real devils.

:36:00.:36:04.

This was a shocking piece of theatre when it was first put on.

:36:05.:36:07.

Not least because he was a known atheist,

:36:08.:36:09.

This play was all about him questioning the realities

:36:10.:36:15.

In the same way Thrones can be, it was very controversial.

:36:16.:36:24.

It is about selling your soul for fame in a sense.

:36:25.:36:27.

The major difference I think is that right at the root

:36:28.:36:34.

of it, the set we are on, it is just his own bedroom.

:36:35.:36:37.

What he really is, at the heart of it, is a man going

:36:38.:36:40.

through a psychotic episode, thinking he's a magician

:36:41.:36:42.

and travelling the world, selling his soul to the devil,

:36:43.:36:45.

and actually he is stuck in his own room going mad,

:36:46.:36:50.

which is sad, but also can be quite funny, can be quite dark comedy.

:36:51.:36:53.

This is also famously a really full on, quite shocking production

:36:54.:37:01.

because there is nudity, Y-fronts, vomit, blood, the lot.

:37:02.:37:06.

Some of the critics have been a bit disconcerted by that,

:37:07.:37:14.

I do not think we have put this on particularly for critics.

:37:15.:37:19.

But I have noticed what the audience reaction has been, which has been

:37:20.:37:23.

vocal, they have been with us every night,

:37:24.:37:25.

and they have been really, really enjoying it.

:37:26.:37:27.

Partly because of Game Of Thrones and yourself, you have brought

:37:28.:37:30.

in a much younger audience than you would normally

:37:31.:37:32.

That in itself could be a good thing?

:37:33.:37:35.

By having me here, we are bringing in an audience who maybe do not

:37:36.:37:47.

They may be more TV watchers, Game Of Thrones fans.

:37:48.:37:51.

Here we have a younger generation of new theatre goers

:37:52.:37:54.

and that is incredibly important, why we are doing this

:37:55.:37:56.

play and why I have been chosen to be in this play.

:37:57.:37:59.

You have become a huge star with Game Of Thrones.

:38:00.:38:03.

Do you have plans or hopes for big films post-theatre?

:38:04.:38:07.

I do not have a plan to try and storm Hollywood.

:38:08.:38:09.

I am producing and writing a TV drama.

:38:10.:38:17.

I am quite interested in the idea of producing.

:38:18.:38:19.

This is about Guy Fawkes and the gunpowder plot.

:38:20.:38:22.

One of my ancestors was Robert Catesby.

:38:23.:38:24.

I can see it, I can see a bit of Catesby.

:38:25.:38:29.

There is fascinating story, Robert Catesby, when his head,

:38:30.:38:34.

that was on my mother's side, when his head was marched past

:38:35.:38:37.

the Houses of Parliament on a pike, John Harrington, on my father's

:38:38.:38:40.

side, who was in the Houses of Parliament at the time,

:38:41.:38:43.

looked at him and said, he is an ugly fellow, isn't he?

:38:44.:38:48.

That is pure Game Of Thrones, the head bobbing past.

:38:49.:38:51.

Are you fascinated by political insurrection and overturning

:38:52.:38:53.

The reason why this piece I am writing I think is incredibly

:38:54.:39:07.

important, it is maybe one of the first instances

:39:08.:39:09.

of ideological terrorism in Western Europe.

:39:10.:39:12.

By group of young men who were disenfranchised

:39:13.:39:14.

Stamped on because they were Catholic.

:39:15.:39:20.

I cannot think of anything more relevant.

:39:21.:39:22.

I think that is definitely ready to be dramatised.

:39:23.:39:30.

Thank you very much indeed for joining us.

:39:31.:39:37.

And Doctor Faustus is at the Duke of York's Theatre in

:39:38.:39:47.

The depth of the financial problems facing the health service in England

:39:48.:39:50.

was revealed last week: two-thirds of NHS trusts in the red,

:39:51.:39:53.

and a record overall deficit of ?2.5 billion.

:39:54.:39:56.

Yet the government says it's safeguarded the NHS with the money

:39:57.:39:58.

it needs to fund new drugs and treatments and to become

:39:59.:40:01.

I'm joined by the Chief Executive of the NHS, Simon Stevens.

:40:02.:40:06.

Before we get going, I think people should see the graph which shows the

:40:07.:40:18.

massive amount of red streaks. That is 2013. It is a massive deficit,

:40:19.:40:24.

appealing very fast. Chris Hobson has argued this is because of two

:40:25.:40:28.

things, because of unprecedented levels of demand for the NHS, and

:40:29.:40:33.

frankly the financials queasy is too tight. Both those things are true.

:40:34.:40:38.

Demand is continuing to rise. The NHS is looking after more patients

:40:39.:40:42.

and looking after them better each year and we are doing that in the

:40:43.:40:45.

context of five years into the deepest slowdown in funding growth

:40:46.:40:50.

we have had, because of the need to dig ourselves out of the effects of

:40:51.:40:54.

the recession, for the British economy. Having said that, the

:40:55.:41:00.

figures you have there are just part of the story. We have another 600

:41:01.:41:03.

million of offsetting savings that will be shown on the results of next

:41:04.:41:07.

week, so the net position for the NHS as a whole, is not what is on

:41:08.:41:13.

that graph. It is bad but not that bad? There is no doubt the 2016 has

:41:14.:41:18.

been a year of incredible financial pressure. That is why we have a

:41:19.:41:22.

different approach for the ahead. We argue we would need a front-loaded

:41:23.:41:27.

funding settlement in the spending review. We have got that. We will be

:41:28.:41:31.

able to put more funding into hospitals. I am confident that as a

:41:32.:41:41.

result the deficit will come down very substantially, this year

:41:42.:41:43.

compared to last. Have you got enough money? We are going to have

:41:44.:41:46.

to cut our cloth according to the funding we have got. Over the next

:41:47.:41:49.

five years we will see NHS funding going up from about ?100 billion a

:41:50.:41:56.

year in England ?219 billion. That is an increase, not as fast as

:41:57.:42:00.

historically the NHS has enjoyed, but it is an increase. I am sorry to

:42:01.:42:06.

use figures, but there is a ?30 billion black hole, of which 22

:42:07.:42:11.

billion is coming from savings by 2020, and big billion from the

:42:12.:42:14.

government. There is massive scepticism around as to whether

:42:15.:42:18.

those savings can be delivered at that rate. How is it going? We have

:42:19.:42:25.

a plan to make the savings. Let's be clear, we're not talking about cuts

:42:26.:42:30.

in the level of spending in the NHS, we are talking about the extent to

:42:31.:42:33.

which we can create more headroom to deal with the extra pressures and

:42:34.:42:38.

treatments we want to offer over the five years. Let me read you, the

:42:39.:42:43.

chief executive of the NHS providers trust. He has key for savings at

:42:44.:42:50.

three times the NHS average. He says it will never work. No one believes

:42:51.:42:53.

that these savings will be enough to cover the large financial gap that

:42:54.:42:58.

is rapidly opening up. That is why we're not doing that. Rather than

:42:59.:43:04.

asking for 4% of savings, 2% would be efficient, more realistic in

:43:05.:43:10.

terms of expectations for NHS hospitals. For every pound of

:43:11.:43:15.

headroom we want to create, only 40p in the pound will come from those

:43:16.:43:19.

kind of savings. There are other things we need to do nationally and

:43:20.:43:25.

more fundamentally, we have a need to change the way clear is organised

:43:26.:43:30.

between GPs and mental health care. If you're not going for all the

:43:31.:43:33.

savings you were going for the government's money is not going up

:43:34.:43:37.

at all, clearly there is going to be a gap. Do you not have to go back

:43:38.:43:42.

and ask for more for the government -- from the government? You said

:43:43.:43:46.

this was the bottom end of what was needed. Since then all that red has

:43:47.:43:50.

appeared on the graph. Do you not need to go to George Osborne and

:43:51.:43:55.

say, we have to come with our cab once more? For the

:43:56.:44:10.

year we are in, we have got the funding increases we need to

:44:11.:44:13.

kick-start the changes that the health service needs to bring about.

:44:14.:44:16.

On the back of that we will make substantial inroads into the

:44:17.:44:18.

hospital deficit. Over time, the NHS will need to share the fruits of

:44:19.:44:21.

economic growth in this country. That is why it is critically

:44:22.:44:23.

important for the NHS that the British economy continues to do

:44:24.:44:26.

well. I have worked in the NHS on another 20 years. The moments when

:44:27.:44:30.

the NHS has been under the most pressure are the moments when the

:44:31.:44:34.

British economy has stalled. The connection between the two is

:44:35.:44:39.

crucial. If the British economy carries on growing, you think the

:44:40.:44:42.

government needs to put more than the ?8 billion in to get the

:44:43.:44:46.

seven-day working week and everything it wants? We have said we

:44:47.:44:52.

need that as a minimum in order to deliver the kinds of improvements in

:44:53.:44:55.

the NHS we want to create over time. That will be a question for

:44:56.:44:58.

governments to consider alongside other priorities. There is an

:44:59.:45:03.

argument that says if there was more money available soon, social care is

:45:04.:45:07.

an important place to put that money. We are currently spending

:45:08.:45:12.

around ?1 billion a year and patients who are stuck in hospital

:45:13.:45:16.

who could be looked after outside hospital.

:45:17.:45:20.

David Laws was sitting there not so long ago and said you had asked for

:45:21.:45:27.

more than ?8 billion, but they had rather sad to new and it was the

:45:28.:45:30.

most you felt you could get before the election, is that true? It is no

:45:31.:45:35.

secret what we asked for, it is on the NHS England website. We said in

:45:36.:45:39.

the five-year review that the NHS would need at least 8 billion at

:45:40.:45:46.

that, in turn, we had to make sufficient deficiencies, and the

:45:47.:45:51.

assessment of that and the Spending Review are there publicly for

:45:52.:45:55.

everybody to see. Very simple, do you want more than ?8 billion?

:45:56.:46:00.

Overtime, the NHS would benefit from extra investment but for that to

:46:01.:46:03.

happen we understand the economy as a whole has got to grow. Two of your

:46:04.:46:08.

predecessors say the NHS would suffer if we left the EU. We just

:46:09.:46:12.

heard Penny Mordaunt and lots of other saying that if we leave the EU

:46:13.:46:17.

we get a ?10 billion bonus, as it were, and most of that goes straight

:46:18.:46:23.

to the NHS, it would solve all your problems? I take very seriously the

:46:24.:46:27.

conversation you had with the governor of the Bank of England who

:46:28.:46:30.

was sitting in this chair last week and when Mark Carney says that the

:46:31.:46:35.

risk of a slowdown in economic growth, possibly a recession, if we

:46:36.:46:43.

end up X sitting the EU, if Mark Carney is right then that is a

:46:44.:46:47.

severe concern -- if we end up leaving the EU. That is a concern

:46:48.:46:51.

for the health service because it would be dangerous if at precisely

:46:52.:46:56.

the moment the NHS will need extra funding the economy goes into a

:46:57.:47:00.

tailspin and the funding is not fair. What would it mean in real

:47:01.:47:05.

terms for the NHS? We can see that we are able, we have got a clear

:47:06.:47:09.

plan to improve cancer services, saving 30,000 lives over the next

:47:10.:47:13.

five years, we need to upgrade Mental Health Services and

:47:14.:47:16.

strengthen primary care in order to put the fuel in the tank we need the

:47:17.:47:21.

proceeds of economic growth. An economic shock would put lives at

:47:22.:47:25.

risk, you would not get the cancer care and support that you would

:47:26.:47:29.

otherwise invest in? Through the 68 years of the NHS's history, when the

:47:30.:47:34.

British economy sneezes the NHS catches a cold. This would be a

:47:35.:47:37.

terrible moment for that to happen at precisely the time the NHS is

:47:38.:47:41.

going to need the extra investment. As the man in charge of the NHS, you

:47:42.:47:45.

are saying to voters now, bowed to stay inside the EU to protect the

:47:46.:47:52.

NHS? It is not my job to do that at all, I'm simply assessing, speaking

:47:53.:47:58.

for the NHS and talking about what the NHS will require, and I think

:47:59.:48:04.

any nurse, any doctor, any patient will tell you that, over time, the

:48:05.:48:08.

NHS is going to need more investment. The reality is, anything

:48:09.:48:14.

that puts out at risk is a deep concern. Let me put you the other

:48:15.:48:18.

side of the argument, in Mark Carney's comments and other

:48:19.:48:32.

comments, lots of ifs and maybes, whereas on the Brexit side they say,

:48:33.:48:37.

here is a concrete ?10 million bonus that we get from leaving the EU and

:48:38.:48:41.

it goes to you guys, you are swapping a concrete, serious upfront

:48:42.:48:47.

and relatively quick offer of money for the worry of what might happen

:48:48.:48:53.

in the distant future? Unfortunately the UK statistics authority has

:48:54.:48:56.

shown that that isn't actually money that would be available to the NHS

:48:57.:49:01.

because when you met off what we did with what we receive it is a rather

:49:02.:49:06.

lower figure than that, and even if all of it were deployed to the NHS,

:49:07.:49:11.

it is enough to fund the NHS for 19 days each year. It will fund us from

:49:12.:49:18.

19 days a year. For the other 11.5 months, it is the performance of the

:49:19.:49:23.

economy which will count. So he rejected that argument, but what

:49:24.:49:27.

about migration? To raise a admitted that we could see an extra 3 million

:49:28.:49:32.

people coming in from across the EU if we stay, and then there are

:49:33.:49:36.

argument about Turkey and so forth. One of the big questions on the NHS

:49:37.:49:40.

right now in accident and emergency department is the sheer numbers of

:49:41.:49:44.

people coming through the doors. More migration means more people

:49:45.:49:47.

coming through the doors, more pressure on the NHS, and the crisis

:49:48.:49:53.

gets worse, not better. The NHS has benefited enormously from EU nurses

:49:54.:49:57.

and doctors who we successfully recruit and help staff our hospitals

:49:58.:50:04.

and nursing homes. Take an example, this morning I was looking at the

:50:05.:50:08.

figures of Penny Mordaunt's local hospital as she was talking. 80 of

:50:09.:50:14.

the doctors are from the rest of the European Union, 350 nurses in her

:50:15.:50:18.

local hospital from the European Union, and if a proportion of those

:50:19.:50:23.

chose to obstacle and leave on the 24th of June, it would create real

:50:24.:50:26.

problems in hospitals across the country. But why would they? There

:50:27.:50:30.

is a Strasberg agreement, they don't have to go, they can stay if they

:50:31.:50:37.

want to. If there are work permits, migration resumes, the rest of it,

:50:38.:50:41.

my point is that the NHS has benefited greatly from the ability

:50:42.:50:46.

to have European Union nurses alongside the increases we need a

:50:47.:50:49.

British trained nurses, doctors, which we are putting in place. In

:50:50.:50:55.

proportional terms and in broad terms there were far more from

:50:56.:50:58.

India, Pakistan, Bangladesh and so forth than from the rest of the EU.

:50:59.:51:04.

Across the whole of the NHS, EU employees are only around 5% so it

:51:05.:51:10.

is not Armageddon? We have 130,000 European Union nurses, doctors, care

:51:11.:51:14.

workers in the NHS and care homes and we would surely miss the

:51:15.:51:19.

benefits they bring, were some of them to choose to leave. But you

:51:20.:51:25.

asked a related question about the impact of migration, the pressure on

:51:26.:51:29.

services that it places. This is not black and white. It clearly isn't

:51:30.:51:35.

the case that where those migrants are paying taxes, it is contributing

:51:36.:51:41.

to the revenues that can forge and expand the NHS. When the NHS was set

:51:42.:51:47.

up in 1948 we had a population of 50 million in this country, we are at

:51:48.:51:51.

65 million now that the NHS has successfully coped with a 15 million

:51:52.:51:56.

expansion in our population, provided it is properly resourced

:51:57.:51:59.

from the proceeds of economic growth it can do that. There is a perfectly

:52:00.:52:04.

legitimate argument to be had on these topics but from the NHS'

:52:05.:52:08.

perspective it is pretty clear that the balance of the advantage is such

:52:09.:52:14.

that risks would be greater were we to find ourselves in economic

:52:15.:52:18.

downturn, were we to find a number of our nurses and doctors

:52:19.:52:22.

contemplated leaving and, indeed, if the pound were affected because a

:52:23.:52:25.

lot of the drug treatments that we buy are priced in euros and dollars

:52:26.:52:29.

so that would make it more difficult for us to get the treatments that we

:52:30.:52:34.

need at an affordable price. That is pretty clear. It is a big moment for

:52:35.:52:38.

somebody in your position to enter this political debate so

:52:39.:52:41.

forthrightly. Did you have a long look in the mirror before you did?

:52:42.:52:46.

Everybody else has an opinion about the NHS, and therefore I think it is

:52:47.:52:50.

perfectly reasonable for the NHS itself, when asked, to lay out the

:52:51.:52:58.

balance of the advantage, objective, in an non-sensationalist way, these

:52:59.:53:01.

are the practicalities the NHS would be facing, and as one of the

:53:02.:53:05.

nation's most important institutions it seems reasonable that as we take

:53:06.:53:09.

one of these big important national decisions it goes into the balance.

:53:10.:53:14.

This week we had a big Government U-turn over the so-called TTIP

:53:15.:53:23.

issue, which are a lot of people felt the NHS would be threatened by,

:53:24.:53:28.

opening it up to Private American pharmaceutical and health care

:53:29.:53:30.

companies coming in and grabbing bits of the NHS. Were you as worried

:53:31.:53:35.

about the TTIP at Ayew relieved that the U-turn have happened? The

:53:36.:53:39.

European commission has been completely straight that nothing in

:53:40.:53:42.

any trade agreement would undermine our ability to run a publicly funded

:53:43.:53:48.

service, to the extent that the Government has also given as yours

:53:49.:53:52.

is on that point today. I think that is a concern that has now updated.

:53:53.:53:56.

Thank you for joining us today, it is all we have got time for.

:53:57.:53:58.

You may have noticed that all sorts of claims and statistics

:53:59.:54:01.

are being thrown around by both sides in this referendum campaign.

:54:02.:54:04.

To get to the facts behind them, the BBC is attempting -

:54:05.:54:07.

Have a look at the BBC website for all the details.

:54:08.:54:11.

And now, a look at what's coming up immediately after this programme.

:54:12.:54:14.

Join us live from Oxford when an alliance of former leading police

:54:15.:54:23.

officers in 26 organisations attacked the Government's counter

:54:24.:54:26.

extremism bill and we ask if the proposals are compatible with

:54:27.:54:30.

freedom of religion. Then, should abortion be decriminalised? That is

:54:31.:54:34.

on BBC One at 10am. Two very interesting questions

:54:35.:54:35.

there. That's all we have time for today -

:54:36.:54:37.

thanks to all my guests. Andrew Neil will be here

:54:38.:54:40.

with the Sunday Politics in an hour. He'll be talking to Lord Owen

:54:41.:54:43.

about why he thinks the NHS is safer PJ Harvey will play us out

:54:44.:54:47.

in a moment with The Community Of Hope from her new number one

:54:48.:54:52.

album, The Hope Six Demolition We talked earlier this morning,

:54:53.:54:55.

and I asked her about the very strange background to this modern

:54:56.:54:59.

protest song. Working closely with the

:55:00.:55:01.

photographer Seamus Murphy, who had done a lot of travelling all his

:55:02.:55:07.

life as a photojournalist, I began to travel with him

:55:08.:55:10.

and the first country we went to was Kosovo,

:55:11.:55:16.

we also went to Afghanistan, and then we thought for a long time

:55:17.:55:18.

about what would be another country to visit before we felt we'd

:55:19.:55:21.

finished a project of an album and also a book, it became a book

:55:22.:55:24.

called The Hollow Of The Hand. We decided that Washington,

:55:25.:55:28.

DC felt like the right A lot of decisions were made

:55:29.:55:30.

there that affected Afghanistan, affected Kosovo, but it was also

:55:31.:55:48.

a nice place to go back and I, as a writer, was trying to look

:55:49.:55:52.

at the similarities I could find, of Washington, DC called Anacostia,

:55:53.:55:55.

which is south of the river was a very poor part, very rundown

:55:56.:56:10.

neighbourhood, and I talked to a lot of the people there,

:56:11.:56:12.

we spent about a week on the streets talking to people, listening

:56:13.:56:16.

to what they had to say, and I just collected notes as

:56:17.:56:19.

a journalist might. You talk about yourself now

:56:20.:56:25.

as a journalist as much Do the two go together for you,

:56:26.:56:27.

you are out there bringing Well, I still call myself

:56:28.:56:35.

a songwriter, really. My biggest drive

:56:36.:56:38.

in my life is to want to sing to people, that's the way

:56:39.:56:46.

I get across the things that interest me and the things

:56:47.:56:49.

that concern me. We're now going to hear

:56:50.:56:51.

a song from the album. Take it away, Polly,

:56:52.:56:53.

thanks very much. # Here's the Hope Six

:56:54.:56:57.

Demolition Project. # And here's the one

:56:58.:57:01.

sit-down restaurant. # Just zombies,

:57:02.:57:15.

but that's just life. # The community of hope,

:57:16.:57:24.

hope, hope, hope. # Here's the highway

:57:25.:57:41.

to death and destruction. # And the school just

:57:42.:57:45.

looks like a hole. # And here's God's

:57:46.:57:52.

deliverance centre. # The community of hope,

:57:53.:58:06.

hope, hope, hope. # They're gonna put

:58:07.:58:25.

a Walmart here #.

:58:26.:58:56.

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