Browse content similar to 22/05/2016. Check below for episodes and series from the same categories and more!
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Hard fact: the National Health Service is at least | :00:07. | :00:09. | |
It's a huge crisis for the government and today the NHS | :00:10. | :00:16. | |
takes centre stage as well in the argument over | :00:17. | :00:18. | |
Simon Stevens, chief executive of the NHS in England, joins me live | :00:19. | :00:42. | |
this morning when I'll be asking him about the financial crisis, | :00:43. | :00:44. | |
and whether the NHS would fare better or worse if we left the EU. | :00:45. | :00:49. | |
I'm joined as well by Penny Mordaunt, Defence Minister, | :00:50. | :00:54. | |
who warns that an extra million people will come here | :00:55. | :00:58. | |
And the comedian Eddie Izzard, touring 31 British cities | :00:59. | :01:03. | |
With the best stories from the Sunday papers and online, | :01:04. | :01:17. | |
I'm joined by Iain Martin, editor of the CapX political comment | :01:18. | :01:20. | |
website, and Sarah Baxter, deputy editor of the Sunday Times. | :01:21. | :01:23. | |
Also this morning: I've been talking to Kit Harington about his star turn | :01:24. | :01:28. | |
as Doctor Faustus on stage, and asking if his Game Of Thrones | :01:29. | :01:31. | |
You would not put it past them. Episode five, I suddenly die again. | :01:32. | :01:44. | |
Is that an ominous hint of things to come? | :01:45. | :01:47. | |
Plus, we have music from protest singer PJ Harvey's | :01:48. | :01:49. | |
# The community of hope. # The community of hope. | :01:50. | :02:08. | |
Lots to come, but first the news, with Roger Johnson. | :02:09. | :02:11. | |
The US military has carried out an air strike against the leader | :02:12. | :02:17. | |
of the Afghan Taliban, and they believe he's likely | :02:18. | :02:19. | |
Several drones were used to target Mullah Akhtar Mansour in a vehicle | :02:20. | :02:24. | |
in a remote area of Pakistan, close to the Afghan border. | :02:25. | :02:27. | |
The strike against Mullah Akhtar Mansour took place in a remote area | :02:28. | :02:33. | |
near the Afghan border, just inside Pakistani territory. | :02:34. | :02:37. | |
The strike, carried out by drones, targeted a vehicle | :02:38. | :02:39. | |
carrying the Taliban leader and another passenger. | :02:40. | :02:44. | |
The attack is said to have been authorised by President Obama. | :02:45. | :02:49. | |
It is potentially a significant blow to group which the Pentagon says has | :02:50. | :02:52. | |
In a statement, the Pentagon spokesman Peter Cook said: | :02:53. | :03:07. | |
He is also accused of being an obstacle to peace, | :03:08. | :03:11. | |
by preventing Taliban leaders from taking part in talks | :03:12. | :03:13. | |
with the Afghan government that could lead to an | :03:14. | :03:15. | |
Mansour has been the Taliban leader since July last year, | :03:16. | :03:23. | |
after the group confirmed the death of their founder, Mullah | :03:24. | :03:25. | |
The Egyptian military has published photos of the debris | :03:26. | :03:35. | |
of EgyptAir flight 804, which crashed en-route | :03:36. | :03:37. | |
Pictures include plane seats and life jackets. | :03:38. | :03:43. | |
Search teams are still trying to locate the main body of the plane | :03:44. | :03:46. | |
and the two black boxes somewhere in the eastern Mediterranean. | :03:47. | :03:50. | |
Austria could become the first EU country to elect a far right | :03:51. | :03:53. | |
Last month, Norbert Hofer, from the Freedom Party, | :03:54. | :03:58. | |
won the first round of voting for the mainly ceremonial post. | :03:59. | :04:02. | |
It's thought that support for his party has risen because of fears | :04:03. | :04:05. | |
The BBC understands that Manchester United are likely | :04:06. | :04:11. | |
to appoint Jose Mourinho as their new manager | :04:12. | :04:13. | |
It's believed a deal was struck with the former Chelsea boss | :04:14. | :04:19. | |
to replace Louis Van Gaal before United's FA Cup final win over | :04:20. | :04:22. | |
Van Gaal has led United since 2014, and still had another year left | :04:23. | :04:25. | |
Thanks. It is a very busy morning in the papers. The Sunday Times has | :04:26. | :04:42. | |
seen a sneak preview of the Chilcot Report, coming out in July, which it | :04:43. | :04:46. | |
says will savage Tony Blair and Jack Straw as well as the journals. | :04:47. | :04:51. | |
Inside the Sunday Times, two former chiefs of the NHS said it breaks it | :04:52. | :04:57. | |
would hurt the NHS badly. We will talk about that war. And another | :04:58. | :05:02. | |
story to cheer the heart of David Cameron, high Street bosses, prices | :05:03. | :05:09. | |
to soar if we leave the EU. The Mail On Sunday on form this morning. The | :05:10. | :05:14. | |
main Brexit heavyweight newspaper, the Telegraph, trade wars memo shows | :05:15. | :05:20. | |
the EU is costing the UK billions of pounds, it says. There is also | :05:21. | :05:24. | |
something about Turkey this morning. The Observer has a story. Penny | :05:25. | :05:29. | |
Mordaunt is the defence minister who will talk about this. Allegations | :05:30. | :05:35. | |
there is going to be a Turkish crimewave, 1 million Turks coming | :05:36. | :05:39. | |
here within eight years. This is the take of the Observer. There is a | :05:40. | :05:44. | |
more extreme take in the Sunday Express, 12 million tax will come to | :05:45. | :05:52. | |
the UK. Lott likes -- lots to talk about. We can get tied up in a row | :05:53. | :05:59. | |
and details in politics. The Observer says that 50 million people | :06:00. | :06:03. | |
in Africa are facing starvation after a massive new famine there. | :06:04. | :06:09. | |
Iain, we will start with the Sunday Times. It is nice to see a newspaper | :06:10. | :06:14. | |
splashing on something which is not a row about Brexit or the European | :06:15. | :06:18. | |
Union. That is how we felt last night as we put it to bed. It is a | :06:19. | :06:24. | |
reminder that out there, later this summer, is this political iceberg. | :06:25. | :06:29. | |
It looks like when Chilcot is published it will do the reputations | :06:30. | :06:35. | |
of lots of people lots of damage. 1.I would make, will it change | :06:36. | :06:39. | |
anyone's mind about what happened in Iraq in 2003? I dated. There was an | :06:40. | :06:44. | |
interesting column in the Times saying it is the wrong war, we | :06:45. | :06:48. | |
should be talking about our failure is in Syria, not just about Iraq. | :06:49. | :06:54. | |
That is right. We want this report is we can learn the lessons but we | :06:55. | :06:58. | |
have waited many years for it, I fear it is too late. Interestingly, | :06:59. | :07:03. | |
what we learned is that the biggest part of the report will be on the | :07:04. | :07:09. | |
postinvasion worlds of Iraq, and how we failed in southern Iraq might and | :07:10. | :07:14. | |
Basra, and at one stage we were patting ourselves on the back, how | :07:15. | :07:18. | |
well we could manage counterinsurgency and we made a | :07:19. | :07:23. | |
terrible mess. It is the equivalent of publishing an enquiry into what | :07:24. | :07:29. | |
happened in Suez in 1970. That is how ludicrous it is. So much has | :07:30. | :07:34. | |
happened. I remember people talking about once we had invaded Iraq, it | :07:35. | :07:40. | |
would be Minnesota with palm trees, a camel, American-style democracy. | :07:41. | :07:45. | |
The Mail On Sunday is in pretty fervent pro remain, I said Leave, | :07:46. | :07:57. | |
because I got confused. There is lots of talk about rivalries between | :07:58. | :08:01. | |
the Daily Mail and the Mail On Sunday. I got the feeling that this | :08:02. | :08:06. | |
weekend the Mail On Sunday showed -- so that the Remain camp was ahead | :08:07. | :08:11. | |
and they are jumping firmly into it with two three. This warning from | :08:12. | :08:16. | |
high Street bosses, prices to rise if we quit the EU. Why is everyone | :08:17. | :08:25. | |
against this? It is getting silly on both sides? Yes. You look at the | :08:26. | :08:31. | |
splash in the Sunday Express. 12 million Turks say they will come to | :08:32. | :08:38. | |
the UK. That is 16% of the Turkish population, they are expected to | :08:39. | :08:43. | |
leave and come to the UK. Turkey has been a remarkably successful and | :08:44. | :08:46. | |
stable country in its own right. There are questions of whether we | :08:47. | :08:50. | |
should have Turkey and save the EU, given its record and the fact that | :08:51. | :08:56. | |
is the buffer to the Far East. David Cameron is saying that Turkey is not | :08:57. | :09:00. | |
coming into the EU, but Penny Mordaunt will argue it is. We are | :09:01. | :09:08. | |
getting to the heart of it, the endgame of the EU referendum | :09:09. | :09:12. | |
campaign. Over the next four weeks, it is clear that questions of | :09:13. | :09:15. | |
migration will move to the top of the agenda. It is migration against | :09:16. | :09:21. | |
economy at the moment. There is a wonderful clip which has been all | :09:22. | :09:26. | |
over the Internet, from a documentary, Boris Johnson | :09:27. | :09:28. | |
advocating Turkey coming into the EU. We can see a moment of it. 1000 | :09:29. | :09:35. | |
years ago, at this place was not on the perimeter of Europe, it was the | :09:36. | :09:40. | |
centre of European civilisation. What will be safe we perpetually | :09:41. | :09:43. | |
keep Turkey out of the European Union because it is Muslim? Are we | :09:44. | :09:47. | |
really saying about ourselves and Europe that it must be for ever | :09:48. | :09:53. | |
against anything with nothing to do with Christendom. Try going to | :09:54. | :09:58. | |
Bradford and saying that. On the other hand, bidders will worry about | :09:59. | :10:01. | |
massive numbers of people coming in. I had to reason me on. The | :10:02. | :10:05. | |
government does not seem to have an answer to the Brexit argument that | :10:06. | :10:10. | |
if we stay in, there will be millions of people coming over the | :10:11. | :10:16. | |
next 30 years. -- I had the Home Secretary on. It is a killer | :10:17. | :10:20. | |
argument for the Brexit campaign. It comes with dangers. As certain kind | :10:21. | :10:25. | |
of voter, if they here that, the here and races dog whistle and do | :10:26. | :10:31. | |
not want to be associated. It is very high risk by Brexit. The risks | :10:32. | :10:35. | |
that are being taken are being taken by some of the politicians involved | :10:36. | :10:40. | |
as well. There is a terrific piece talking about Boris and posing the | :10:41. | :10:45. | |
question, in this referendum campaign, has bodies blown eight? | :10:46. | :10:49. | |
Has he done fatal harm to his leadership ambitions? There is a | :10:50. | :10:56. | |
wonderful line at the end. He says, while Boris's cavalier style can be | :10:57. | :11:01. | |
attractive, it is worth remembering the Roundheads eventually won the | :11:02. | :11:07. | |
Civil War. There is a ruthless discipline at the moment. I love | :11:08. | :11:11. | |
that clip. Is Boris Patrick Leach in his ancestry? There is a bit in | :11:12. | :11:16. | |
there somewhere. He does not sound Turkish, but I think he might be. | :11:17. | :11:23. | |
The other big story is the NHS. You have two former NHS bosses saying, | :11:24. | :11:28. | |
leave the EU and all will be tenable for the NHS. It is odd. The Brexit | :11:29. | :11:33. | |
campaigners are saying, here was ?10 billion you can have. If you believe | :11:34. | :11:38. | |
that the Eurosceptic Brexiteers are the sort of people to pour lots of | :11:39. | :11:42. | |
money into the NHS, you're in fantasy land. On the other hand, if | :11:43. | :11:48. | |
you believe that leaving is going to seriously affect the NHS, you make | :11:49. | :11:53. | |
equally be. It is interesting what these chief executives of the NHS | :11:54. | :11:58. | |
say. Their argument is that we are staffed by lots of European doctors | :11:59. | :12:06. | |
and nurses. They are saying it is a risk, why take the risk? Also, you | :12:07. | :12:09. | |
can set your watch by this in general election campaigns and | :12:10. | :12:13. | |
referendums. With two or three weeks to go, both sides start to invoke | :12:14. | :12:19. | |
the NHS, this great sacred cow. They say if you do not vote one way or | :12:20. | :12:25. | |
the other the NHS will be destroyed. At this moment, the junior doctors | :12:26. | :12:29. | |
have settled with Jeremy Hunt so we are going to get the seven-day NHS. | :12:30. | :12:33. | |
It looks like the consultants have done the same. It is a big moment. | :12:34. | :12:39. | |
Yes, things are finally going the way of the patients. It is a good | :12:40. | :12:44. | |
thing. We want the seven-day NHS. It is something the Sunday Times has | :12:45. | :12:48. | |
campaigned for. Consultants are resistant, but there is too might | :12:49. | :12:53. | |
jeopardise a family is not getting the right treatment. If you fall ill | :12:54. | :12:58. | |
on a Friday night or Saturday night. Iain, saving your blushes, CapX is | :12:59. | :13:03. | |
one of those sites I go to quite a lot. You have some great writing. | :13:04. | :13:06. | |
You have chosen one of your stories that is about to be posted. Thank | :13:07. | :13:12. | |
you. It has just been posted. I have been struck by these extreme skier | :13:13. | :13:20. | |
stories on either side. -- skier stories. It was written by the | :13:21. | :13:24. | |
Conservative MP representing the City of London, Markfield. It is a | :13:25. | :13:33. | |
nice piece. He is acknowledging that the city would survive, even those | :13:34. | :13:41. | |
years for Remain, he is not saying it would shut down within six months | :13:42. | :13:46. | |
of Brexit Broad. That is one thing that is probably annoying lots of | :13:47. | :13:50. | |
voters, there is no room for subtlety in this debate. It is | :13:51. | :13:55. | |
becoming very polarised. Some people will be watching this and saying, | :13:56. | :13:59. | |
what is CapX, what is the philosophy behind it? It is the world analysed | :14:00. | :14:05. | |
in Tech -- intelligently from a pro-market perspective. We write | :14:06. | :14:11. | |
about politics globally. We know where the Sunday Times comes from. | :14:12. | :14:15. | |
In terms of the great reads into the's papers, there is a wonderful | :14:16. | :14:21. | |
piece into the's observer. It is long and reflective. It talks about | :14:22. | :14:25. | |
an important moment in the endless fight between big Tobacco and | :14:26. | :14:27. | |
government health people on the other. As of this week, we will see | :14:28. | :14:32. | |
all tobacco brands, those things we used to carry around, Marlborough | :14:33. | :14:39. | |
and Kallis camels, they will vanish. It will be plain green packets. It | :14:40. | :14:42. | |
is really interesting. It is fascinating. Big Tobacco has lost | :14:43. | :14:50. | |
this battle. What it does not quite get into is what is coming next. Big | :14:51. | :14:57. | |
Tobacco is not stupid. It is investing tonnes of money and trying | :14:58. | :15:03. | |
to invent products which are not... With raping. -- vaping. | :15:04. | :15:13. | |
Your best story of the week? One piece of writing from today's | :15:14. | :15:20. | |
papers, you have chosen Nick Cohen? Nick Cohen has an magnificent column | :15:21. | :15:25. | |
on Venezuela and the left, pointing out it is only a couple of years ago | :15:26. | :15:32. | |
that Chavez's Venezuela was held up as this great icon. I have chosen | :15:33. | :15:38. | |
related to that this fantastic piece from Caracas on exactly what has | :15:39. | :15:42. | |
gone wrong on the ground. If you have but a few minutes, folks, read | :15:43. | :15:48. | |
that? Sarah, the other thing to talk about is Africa. I was saying | :15:49. | :15:52. | |
earlier we get obsessed by what is happening in British politics but | :15:53. | :15:55. | |
around the world bigger things are happening of all kinds and cry out | :15:56. | :16:00. | |
to the Observer for spending a lot of time on 50 million people facing | :16:01. | :16:05. | |
famine after crops failed in Africa caused by El Nino. No rain, and | :16:06. | :16:14. | |
meagre harvest, El Nino ravaging the continent. We always pay attention | :16:15. | :16:18. | |
when it is too late so it is worth drawing attention to this and | :16:19. | :16:22. | |
saying, help, this is something that is really serious going on and very | :16:23. | :16:27. | |
few people are talking about it. Any final thoughts before we finish the | :16:28. | :16:31. | |
paper review? Equipped boat, I want to shout out a cover story in the | :16:32. | :16:36. | |
Sunday Times Magazine about why young women, beautiful, qualified, | :16:37. | :16:41. | |
gorgeous, are boyfriend lives in their 20s, a phenomenon out there in | :16:42. | :16:45. | |
the world. Lots of people out there saying, me, I can help! Thank you | :16:46. | :16:50. | |
both, fascinating. You might think that after running 27 marathons in | :16:51. | :16:54. | |
as many days the comic Eddie Izzard would want a rest. | :16:55. | :16:57. | |
Tomorrow he embarks on a 31-city tour of the UK to drum up support | :16:58. | :17:02. | |
for the campaign to remain in the EU. | :17:03. | :17:04. | |
Thank you for coming on. It has been much talked about in this campaign, | :17:05. | :17:11. | |
people talk about Project Fear on one side and Project Fear on the | :17:12. | :17:14. | |
other but you are one of the relatively few people in public life | :17:15. | :17:18. | |
who is prepared to say, I love the EU and this is why? I would not turn | :17:19. | :17:23. | |
it that way, I'm positive on the EU, the EU has given me huge | :17:24. | :17:28. | |
opportunities to work and travel throughout the whole of Europe and I | :17:29. | :17:30. | |
want every young person, particularly young people, to be | :17:31. | :17:53. | |
able to have the same opportunities. Older people as well but young | :17:54. | :17:57. | |
people need to get registered and June seven is coming up so I will be | :17:58. | :18:00. | |
gunning to 31 cities to say to young people that they just need to get | :18:01. | :18:02. | |
their smartphones, two minutes on this, get registered by the 7th of | :18:03. | :18:05. | |
June. It is the biggest decision of their lives and I don't want other | :18:06. | :18:08. | |
people to tell them how the future should happen. Get registered so you | :18:09. | :18:11. | |
can make your vote. Let me get personal, you are a man of a certain | :18:12. | :18:14. | |
age, why would young people be listening to you? I don't know! If | :18:15. | :18:16. | |
you ask young people, I had people saying at the last election, we | :18:17. | :18:19. | |
should get you talking to young people. I am older than them! Maybe | :18:20. | :18:22. | |
because I came out as transgender at 31 years old, I now tore in French, | :18:23. | :18:27. | |
I too would Germany in German, I have just started Spanish, ran 27 | :18:28. | :18:33. | |
marathons in 27 days, I do a lot of positive things which are quite | :18:34. | :18:38. | |
young orientated. In here I'm very young. And you are wearing a very | :18:39. | :18:44. | |
nice beret, I must say. I have my two badges on their, British and | :18:45. | :18:48. | |
European, I'm proud of being both. If young people care about the pound | :18:49. | :18:53. | |
in a pocket then I think it is good, economically, to stay in the | :18:54. | :18:57. | |
European Union and to travel, for the low-cost fares, for the roaming | :18:58. | :19:01. | |
charges, and their health care all across Europe. They should stay in | :19:02. | :19:05. | |
Europe. This is the week in which lots of actors and others from the | :19:06. | :19:09. | |
arts community signed up alongside David Cameron in deep Remain | :19:10. | :19:14. | |
campaign and a bucket of Royal Portrush per the paper said, we | :19:15. | :19:18. | |
don't want love bees to talk to us. Why would we go to actors and | :19:19. | :19:22. | |
comedians for advice? I cannot even spell the word love these! -- | :19:23. | :19:35. | |
luvvies. I try to be positive, 27 marathons in 27 days, I have been | :19:36. | :19:39. | |
openly political for some time, this is not something new I have come up | :19:40. | :19:43. | |
with. Would you describe yourself as a radical moderate? I do radical | :19:44. | :19:49. | |
things with a moderate message, you know? If you saw the double marathon | :19:50. | :19:54. | |
on the last day in South Africa, that was slightly radical... Very | :19:55. | :20:03. | |
radical! But it raised 2.3 million, it is a moderate message, it helps | :20:04. | :20:07. | |
around the world. You are standing for the national executive, I don't | :20:08. | :20:10. | |
know if you are a Jeremy Corbyn support or not but after the polls | :20:11. | :20:15. | |
of Labour Party members this week Corbyn is completely unassailable as | :20:16. | :20:20. | |
your leader until the election? He is in 40 Remain group and so am I, | :20:21. | :20:24. | |
on the same side, fighting away. I just want to encourage people in | :20:25. | :20:27. | |
this election, this referendum that is coming up, sorry, that they get | :20:28. | :20:33. | |
registered and get voting. A lot of young people don't know that it is | :20:34. | :20:36. | |
happening, the 7th of June, only two weeks away. That is the registration | :20:37. | :20:42. | |
date? I'm hammering the registration date, because once they are | :20:43. | :20:45. | |
registered they can make up their minds. You mentioned transgender and | :20:46. | :20:53. | |
so forth... Really, here?! There is a big argument on university | :20:54. | :20:56. | |
campuses at the moment, there have been traditional feminists on one | :20:57. | :21:01. | |
side saying, we know what a woman is, transgender person cannot | :21:02. | :21:04. | |
describe themselves as a woman, which has caused a huge out of anger | :21:05. | :21:07. | |
in the transgender community, people very angry on both sides, so I | :21:08. | :21:11. | |
wonder what your perspective is? Am not going to weigh in on this. It is | :21:12. | :21:18. | |
difficult enough for us anyway. 31 years ago I walked out the door, I | :21:19. | :21:22. | |
try to find an honest life, I have played with a straight bat all my | :21:23. | :21:25. | |
life but I try to be open and honest, and surely it is better than | :21:26. | :21:29. | |
closed and lying, and that is the same with the EU. I am digging in | :21:30. | :21:34. | |
France, doing stand-up comedy year, so are the Germans, it is a | :21:35. | :21:38. | |
beautiful thing, it is what humanity does. The EU is trying to be | :21:39. | :21:48. | |
positive about humanity. I wish more politicians were as open and honest. | :21:49. | :21:51. | |
Eddie izzard, thank you for coming on today. | :21:52. | :21:52. | |
If one was looking for a pithy phrase about the weather this May, | :21:53. | :21:56. | |
Will things improve over the coming days? | :21:57. | :21:59. | |
Over to Jay Wynne in the weather studio. | :22:00. | :22:03. | |
It is a mixed bag, some of us will keep the sun shone into the | :22:04. | :22:09. | |
afternoon but that is not the full story. Wenbo showers, long they can | :22:10. | :22:14. | |
be quite slow moving. We have seen a few showers in Wales and the South | :22:15. | :22:18. | |
West today, they will drift eastward and are developing widely elsewhere. | :22:19. | :22:22. | |
Spells of sunshine across the far south-west into the afternoon, it | :22:23. | :22:26. | |
will take into the latter afternoon and evening before they arrive in | :22:27. | :22:33. | |
the east. This evening showers continue to drift eastward and by | :22:34. | :22:37. | |
the end of the night they are confined to sap -- East Anglia and | :22:38. | :22:49. | |
the south-east. A chilly start to Monday but a bright one for many. | :22:50. | :22:53. | |
Showers developing once again from the south-east of England to the | :22:54. | :22:58. | |
Isle of Wight, along the spine of the UK into central Scotland. A | :22:59. | :23:01. | |
chilly feel along the North Sea coast with a breeze coming in but | :23:02. | :23:05. | |
further south and west, lighter winds and some sunshine, quite a | :23:06. | :23:09. | |
nice day. Should be dry pretty much everywhere on Tuesday, variable | :23:10. | :23:11. | |
cloud, a bit cooler with an easterly breeze. | :23:12. | :23:15. | |
Just over a month to go until we vote in the EU referendum, | :23:16. | :23:18. | |
and it's fair to say the campaign has not been entirely cheerful. | :23:19. | :23:21. | |
Each side accuses the other of scare tactics, mangling the facts, | :23:22. | :23:24. | |
Representing the Leave side, I'm joined now by the Defence Minister, | :23:25. | :23:28. | |
You are on the front page of the Observer this morning warning that 1 | :23:29. | :23:37. | |
million people may come here from Turkey in the next eight years, | :23:38. | :23:41. | |
which is strange because very few people expect Turkey to join the EU | :23:42. | :23:45. | |
in the next eight years? I think it is very likely that they will partly | :23:46. | :23:48. | |
because of the migrant crisis, which is escalating in Turkey in | :23:49. | :23:53. | |
particular but other access in countries coming in. The Remain side | :23:54. | :24:02. | |
and Vote Leave agree very much about Turkey and migrant numbers. The Home | :24:03. | :24:06. | |
Secretary made a speech at early in the campaign which pointed to | :24:07. | :24:11. | |
questioning the merits of the EU expanding and having a land border | :24:12. | :24:16. | |
with Syria, Iraq and Iran. Your colleague Boris Johnson, as we just | :24:17. | :24:22. | |
heard, is pro-Turkey joining the EU? What is dishonest is to say, to have | :24:23. | :24:26. | |
a policy of expansion and then at the same time deny member state what | :24:27. | :24:31. | |
they need to mitigate the security risk that comes with it. To raise a | :24:32. | :24:36. | |
herself has pointed to the problems of terrorism and organised crime | :24:37. | :24:41. | |
that is in these access and countries. Where we disagree is on | :24:42. | :24:46. | |
two issues, the dishonesty about doing that and then denying us the | :24:47. | :24:53. | |
tools to keep ourselves safe Mullah Akhtar Mansou Mullah Akhtar Mansou | :24:54. | :24:54. | |
and secure, but also that the -- to keep ourselves safe and secure | :24:55. | :25:07. | |
but that the referendum will be our last chance. The Government has a | :25:08. | :25:12. | |
veto on Turkey joining so we don't have to let them join? No, it | :25:13. | :25:16. | |
doesn't come at the British people are not... Thrones is something each | :25:17. | :25:27. | |
country can veto if it wants to. I do not think the EU is going to keep | :25:28. | :25:32. | |
Turkey at -- accession is something each country can veto. There are | :25:33. | :25:39. | |
lots of other EU countries, sorry to interrupt. The expansion policy is | :25:40. | :25:42. | |
one thing, if you are going to pursue that policy, and that is | :25:43. | :25:47. | |
where we disagree with the Remain camp, you have got to and us the | :25:48. | :25:51. | |
tools to protect our own interest and national security. That, we do | :25:52. | :25:55. | |
not have. When it comes to the raw numbers and the way this has been | :25:56. | :25:59. | |
framed, there has been talk from your site about the number of Turks | :26:00. | :26:01. | |
who are criminals, who have guns and so on. It is like a dog | :26:02. | :26:21. | |
whistle and at the beginning of this campaign there was a fight between | :26:22. | :26:23. | |
Conservatives and Nigel Farage's campaign because you're not said, | :26:24. | :26:26. | |
they will just go on and on about immigration, and here we are a few | :26:27. | :26:29. | |
weeks before the vote and you are going on about immigration. Those | :26:30. | :26:31. | |
facts and figures have been agreed by both sides of the debate. We are | :26:32. | :26:34. | |
arguing that if you are going to have these policies and ever | :26:35. | :26:36. | |
expanding the EU, you have to allow us to mitigate the security risk | :26:37. | :26:39. | |
that comes with that. I think it was quite wrong that the British people | :26:40. | :26:42. | |
will not be asked their view on this in the future. The referendum is our | :26:43. | :26:45. | |
only chance to say, no, we disagree with that. There has been a lot of | :26:46. | :26:49. | |
rumblings and were from Government ministers about what happens to the | :26:50. | :26:54. | |
Conservative party after this, even suggestions there will be a spiteful | :26:55. | :26:57. | |
reshuffle, people being kicked out if they were on the wrong side. Do | :26:58. | :27:01. | |
you think this is getting overheated on both sides, are you worried what | :27:02. | :27:04. | |
will happen to the Conservative family after the referendum? I'm | :27:05. | :27:07. | |
not, the party will come together, and I'm | :27:08. | :27:25. | |
not ashamed that there is passion on both sides in my party on this. I | :27:26. | :27:28. | |
think it is a shame that there are lots of people in the world that | :27:29. | :27:31. | |
want us to be frightened right now, but being frightened is not a way to | :27:32. | :27:34. | |
live your life and certainly not a basis for making a decision. What I | :27:35. | :27:37. | |
would say to the public, and I understand how annoyed they are at | :27:38. | :27:39. | |
the scaremongering and falls reports that have been coming from the | :27:40. | :27:42. | |
Remain side, what I would say to them is, look at what is happening, | :27:43. | :27:44. | |
look at the job figures this week, at the money pouring into the city. | :27:45. | :27:47. | |
We are one month from the referendum, there are no jitters on | :27:48. | :27:50. | |
the economy. Also, trust your common sense, the great British common. Our | :27:51. | :27:52. | |
friends and Germany going to stop cooperating with us on trade and | :27:53. | :27:55. | |
security? No, because it benefits them and us. Let me raise something | :27:56. | :27:59. | |
else you have talked about, the effect on the NHS of staying inside | :28:00. | :28:04. | |
the EU. We have had two former bosses of the NHS righted in the | :28:05. | :28:09. | |
papers today saying the NHS would be badly hit if we leave the EU. Why | :28:10. | :28:14. | |
are they wrong? What is your message to Simon Stevens, for instance? For | :28:15. | :28:18. | |
the NHS to drive, it needs to things. If we left the EU we would | :28:19. | :28:23. | |
have the ?10 billion dividend, and extra money is always helpful, but | :28:24. | :28:26. | |
it needs something else as well. Would that go to the NHS? It would | :28:27. | :28:31. | |
be for future governments to decide but I think the British public would | :28:32. | :28:35. | |
put the NHS and social care around it pretty high at the top of their | :28:36. | :28:39. | |
list of priorities, if not at the top. Money is important, we would | :28:40. | :28:42. | |
have more chance of spending more money on the NHS with that dividend, | :28:43. | :28:47. | |
but I think it needs something else as well, and this has been a problem | :28:48. | :28:52. | |
historically for the NHS. It needs the ability to plan better, and the | :28:53. | :28:56. | |
problem with uncontrolled immigration is that it is impossible | :28:57. | :29:00. | |
for our public services to plan, whether it is our hospitals and 80 | :29:01. | :29:03. | |
and the particular which was affected by this, or school place | :29:04. | :29:08. | |
provision, it is very difficult unless you can have control, control | :29:09. | :29:13. | |
the numbers coming in, and you can give our public services some chance | :29:14. | :29:16. | |
of making the provision that they need. Do you think it is wrong for | :29:17. | :29:22. | |
senior civil servants that are involved in the NHS to be involved | :29:23. | :29:27. | |
in a debate like this, or is it fair for the governor of the Bank of | :29:28. | :29:31. | |
England, the chief executive of the NHS, to becoming bold in this | :29:32. | :29:34. | |
national debate? I think the public have got tired of this constant | :29:35. | :29:39. | |
stream of hysteria from the establishment. I think that we are | :29:40. | :29:43. | |
going to get more of this but it is not going to have traction with the | :29:44. | :29:47. | |
public. They are fed up of it. There have been some exceptional | :29:48. | :29:52. | |
interventions, my colleague pointed to Mark Carney's intervention, which | :29:53. | :29:57. | |
I think was the tipping point, if you like, when people realised | :29:58. | :30:00. | |
actually there is another agenda going on. You think there is an | :30:01. | :30:04. | |
establishment stitch up? I think so. I think the public are seeing | :30:05. | :30:11. | |
through this, and I think that moment in our history, 1939, 1982, | :30:12. | :30:23. | |
we have gone against the orthodoxy of the establishment, we have stood | :30:24. | :30:27. | |
up and said, no, we are not going to be a nation of followers, we are | :30:28. | :30:31. | |
going to be a nation of leaders and that is what needs to happen in this | :30:32. | :30:35. | |
referendum. The Prime Minister would say we have lead in Europe on big | :30:36. | :30:38. | |
security issues, standing up to Putin and so forth, we have been | :30:39. | :30:42. | |
important that. There is such a thing as the West, and is leaving | :30:43. | :30:47. | |
the EU does help to fragment the West at what is a dangerous time. We | :30:48. | :30:49. | |
have enemies out there. Without democracy at the heart of | :30:50. | :31:00. | |
Europe's institutions, the idea of the strong, secure, peaceful Europe | :31:01. | :31:03. | |
is dead. We need democracy to be restored to the heart of Europe. The | :31:04. | :31:09. | |
EU, on its current trajectory, is totally counter to that. Byars | :31:10. | :31:14. | |
voting to leave, biased voting to get a better deal for ourselves, and | :31:15. | :31:19. | |
what we need to thrive, we will also be providing that leadership that | :31:20. | :31:24. | |
gives other European nations the permission to say, me, too. It is a | :31:25. | :31:29. | |
coming together of democracies. I want to return to this. I am pretty | :31:30. | :31:33. | |
sure we do have a veto over stopping Turkey if we want to. I think, with | :31:34. | :31:38. | |
the current situation, the migrant crisis and other issues that are | :31:39. | :31:42. | |
going on in Europe at the moment, that we will be unable to stop | :31:43. | :31:50. | |
Turkey joining. You think we will be bullied into it? I think the British | :31:51. | :31:53. | |
public, this is a matter for the British people to decide. The only | :31:54. | :31:56. | |
chance they will get to express a view on this is in this referendum. | :31:57. | :32:00. | |
If we not -- if we do not want Turkey in, we can stop Turkey from | :32:01. | :32:05. | |
coming? I do not think the UK will be able to stop Turkey from joining. | :32:06. | :32:10. | |
Penny Mordaunt, thank you very much for talking to me. | :32:11. | :32:13. | |
Game Of Thrones has transformed from a cult TV show into the most | :32:14. | :32:16. | |
Part of that runaway global success is down to Kit Harington. | :32:17. | :32:22. | |
His smouldering turn as Jon Snow in the series has made him one | :32:23. | :32:25. | |
The character's death and resurrection earlier this year | :32:26. | :32:28. | |
I caught up with Kit on stage in London where he's currently | :32:29. | :32:33. | |
playing Doctor Faustus in a controversial version | :32:34. | :32:34. | |
But first, naturally, we talked Thrones! | :32:35. | :32:44. | |
What do you want me to do with this? | :32:45. | :32:57. | |
I think every now and again something comes along | :32:58. | :33:17. | |
At the right time and the right place, at first with Thrones, | :33:18. | :33:25. | |
I think it is just brilliantly written. | :33:26. | :33:29. | |
And it reaches out in a way that lots of television does not. | :33:30. | :33:39. | |
Tell us the story, I think you had an encounter with a traffic | :33:40. | :33:42. | |
policeman recently which proved the point. | :33:43. | :33:43. | |
This was a little while ago, when I had just died on Thrones. | :33:44. | :33:50. | |
Spoilers had not yet been brought back. | :33:51. | :33:53. | |
This policeman pulled me over at the side of the | :33:54. | :33:56. | |
He said to me, do you know how fast you were going, sir? | :33:57. | :34:03. | |
I said, yes, officer, I am terribly sorry. | :34:04. | :34:09. | |
He said, there are two ways we can deal with this, | :34:10. | :34:13. | |
you can follow me to the station now and we can book you in and it | :34:14. | :34:17. | |
will be at least a fine if not more, or you can tell me whether you're | :34:18. | :34:21. | |
alive in the next season of Game Of Thrones. | :34:22. | :34:23. | |
I laughed like you just laughed, and he was completely stony faced. | :34:24. | :34:29. | |
He said, I have to tell you what happens next, whether I take | :34:30. | :34:32. | |
you into the station depends on what your answer is. | :34:33. | :34:34. | |
And he said, on your way, Lord Commander. | :34:35. | :34:39. | |
We are post-spoiler, you have come back. | :34:40. | :34:44. | |
Presumably you're going to stick with it for a while. | :34:45. | :34:47. | |
They are not going to kill you off again. | :34:48. | :34:49. | |
You would not put it past them though. | :34:50. | :34:53. | |
Episode five of Game Of Thrones, I suddenly die again. | :34:54. | :34:58. | |
Jon Snow will get really cocky because now he is immortal, | :34:59. | :35:01. | |
You're in a very strange area with Game Of Thrones. | :35:02. | :35:06. | |
It could dominate your life for many years to come yet. | :35:07. | :35:08. | |
Is that a scary or unpleasant prospect? | :35:09. | :35:12. | |
I hope it does not and I know it will not. | :35:13. | :35:19. | |
Any good TV show must be like any good book, like any good | :35:20. | :35:22. | |
Kit Marlowe, after whom I think you were named, Christopher Marlowe, | :35:23. | :35:42. | |
was, if anybody was, the nearest to a Game Of Thrones | :35:43. | :35:45. | |
writer, he is the one that does the sex, the violence, | :35:46. | :35:47. | |
the full on gore on stage, so there is a connection | :35:48. | :35:50. | |
He was very controversial in his time. | :35:51. | :35:54. | |
This play, Faustus was very much the horror movie of its era. | :35:55. | :35:59. | |
Everyone believed in real demons, real devils. | :36:00. | :36:04. | |
This was a shocking piece of theatre when it was first put on. | :36:05. | :36:07. | |
Not least because he was a known atheist, | :36:08. | :36:09. | |
This play was all about him questioning the realities | :36:10. | :36:15. | |
In the same way Thrones can be, it was very controversial. | :36:16. | :36:24. | |
It is about selling your soul for fame in a sense. | :36:25. | :36:27. | |
The major difference I think is that right at the root | :36:28. | :36:34. | |
of it, the set we are on, it is just his own bedroom. | :36:35. | :36:37. | |
What he really is, at the heart of it, is a man going | :36:38. | :36:40. | |
through a psychotic episode, thinking he's a magician | :36:41. | :36:42. | |
and travelling the world, selling his soul to the devil, | :36:43. | :36:45. | |
and actually he is stuck in his own room going mad, | :36:46. | :36:50. | |
which is sad, but also can be quite funny, can be quite dark comedy. | :36:51. | :36:53. | |
This is also famously a really full on, quite shocking production | :36:54. | :37:01. | |
because there is nudity, Y-fronts, vomit, blood, the lot. | :37:02. | :37:06. | |
Some of the critics have been a bit disconcerted by that, | :37:07. | :37:14. | |
I do not think we have put this on particularly for critics. | :37:15. | :37:19. | |
But I have noticed what the audience reaction has been, which has been | :37:20. | :37:23. | |
vocal, they have been with us every night, | :37:24. | :37:25. | |
and they have been really, really enjoying it. | :37:26. | :37:27. | |
Partly because of Game Of Thrones and yourself, you have brought | :37:28. | :37:30. | |
in a much younger audience than you would normally | :37:31. | :37:32. | |
That in itself could be a good thing? | :37:33. | :37:35. | |
By having me here, we are bringing in an audience who maybe do not | :37:36. | :37:47. | |
They may be more TV watchers, Game Of Thrones fans. | :37:48. | :37:51. | |
Here we have a younger generation of new theatre goers | :37:52. | :37:54. | |
and that is incredibly important, why we are doing this | :37:55. | :37:56. | |
play and why I have been chosen to be in this play. | :37:57. | :37:59. | |
You have become a huge star with Game Of Thrones. | :38:00. | :38:03. | |
Do you have plans or hopes for big films post-theatre? | :38:04. | :38:07. | |
I do not have a plan to try and storm Hollywood. | :38:08. | :38:09. | |
I am producing and writing a TV drama. | :38:10. | :38:17. | |
I am quite interested in the idea of producing. | :38:18. | :38:19. | |
This is about Guy Fawkes and the gunpowder plot. | :38:20. | :38:22. | |
One of my ancestors was Robert Catesby. | :38:23. | :38:24. | |
I can see it, I can see a bit of Catesby. | :38:25. | :38:29. | |
There is fascinating story, Robert Catesby, when his head, | :38:30. | :38:34. | |
that was on my mother's side, when his head was marched past | :38:35. | :38:37. | |
the Houses of Parliament on a pike, John Harrington, on my father's | :38:38. | :38:40. | |
side, who was in the Houses of Parliament at the time, | :38:41. | :38:43. | |
looked at him and said, he is an ugly fellow, isn't he? | :38:44. | :38:48. | |
That is pure Game Of Thrones, the head bobbing past. | :38:49. | :38:51. | |
Are you fascinated by political insurrection and overturning | :38:52. | :38:53. | |
The reason why this piece I am writing I think is incredibly | :38:54. | :39:07. | |
important, it is maybe one of the first instances | :39:08. | :39:09. | |
of ideological terrorism in Western Europe. | :39:10. | :39:12. | |
By group of young men who were disenfranchised | :39:13. | :39:14. | |
Stamped on because they were Catholic. | :39:15. | :39:20. | |
I cannot think of anything more relevant. | :39:21. | :39:22. | |
I think that is definitely ready to be dramatised. | :39:23. | :39:30. | |
Thank you very much indeed for joining us. | :39:31. | :39:37. | |
And Doctor Faustus is at the Duke of York's Theatre in | :39:38. | :39:47. | |
The depth of the financial problems facing the health service in England | :39:48. | :39:50. | |
was revealed last week: two-thirds of NHS trusts in the red, | :39:51. | :39:53. | |
and a record overall deficit of ?2.5 billion. | :39:54. | :39:56. | |
Yet the government says it's safeguarded the NHS with the money | :39:57. | :39:58. | |
it needs to fund new drugs and treatments and to become | :39:59. | :40:01. | |
I'm joined by the Chief Executive of the NHS, Simon Stevens. | :40:02. | :40:06. | |
Before we get going, I think people should see the graph which shows the | :40:07. | :40:18. | |
massive amount of red streaks. That is 2013. It is a massive deficit, | :40:19. | :40:24. | |
appealing very fast. Chris Hobson has argued this is because of two | :40:25. | :40:28. | |
things, because of unprecedented levels of demand for the NHS, and | :40:29. | :40:33. | |
frankly the financials queasy is too tight. Both those things are true. | :40:34. | :40:38. | |
Demand is continuing to rise. The NHS is looking after more patients | :40:39. | :40:42. | |
and looking after them better each year and we are doing that in the | :40:43. | :40:45. | |
context of five years into the deepest slowdown in funding growth | :40:46. | :40:50. | |
we have had, because of the need to dig ourselves out of the effects of | :40:51. | :40:54. | |
the recession, for the British economy. Having said that, the | :40:55. | :41:00. | |
figures you have there are just part of the story. We have another 600 | :41:01. | :41:03. | |
million of offsetting savings that will be shown on the results of next | :41:04. | :41:07. | |
week, so the net position for the NHS as a whole, is not what is on | :41:08. | :41:13. | |
that graph. It is bad but not that bad? There is no doubt the 2016 has | :41:14. | :41:18. | |
been a year of incredible financial pressure. That is why we have a | :41:19. | :41:22. | |
different approach for the ahead. We argue we would need a front-loaded | :41:23. | :41:27. | |
funding settlement in the spending review. We have got that. We will be | :41:28. | :41:31. | |
able to put more funding into hospitals. I am confident that as a | :41:32. | :41:41. | |
result the deficit will come down very substantially, this year | :41:42. | :41:43. | |
compared to last. Have you got enough money? We are going to have | :41:44. | :41:46. | |
to cut our cloth according to the funding we have got. Over the next | :41:47. | :41:49. | |
five years we will see NHS funding going up from about ?100 billion a | :41:50. | :41:56. | |
year in England ?219 billion. That is an increase, not as fast as | :41:57. | :42:00. | |
historically the NHS has enjoyed, but it is an increase. I am sorry to | :42:01. | :42:06. | |
use figures, but there is a ?30 billion black hole, of which 22 | :42:07. | :42:11. | |
billion is coming from savings by 2020, and big billion from the | :42:12. | :42:14. | |
government. There is massive scepticism around as to whether | :42:15. | :42:18. | |
those savings can be delivered at that rate. How is it going? We have | :42:19. | :42:25. | |
a plan to make the savings. Let's be clear, we're not talking about cuts | :42:26. | :42:30. | |
in the level of spending in the NHS, we are talking about the extent to | :42:31. | :42:33. | |
which we can create more headroom to deal with the extra pressures and | :42:34. | :42:38. | |
treatments we want to offer over the five years. Let me read you, the | :42:39. | :42:43. | |
chief executive of the NHS providers trust. He has key for savings at | :42:44. | :42:50. | |
three times the NHS average. He says it will never work. No one believes | :42:51. | :42:53. | |
that these savings will be enough to cover the large financial gap that | :42:54. | :42:58. | |
is rapidly opening up. That is why we're not doing that. Rather than | :42:59. | :43:04. | |
asking for 4% of savings, 2% would be efficient, more realistic in | :43:05. | :43:10. | |
terms of expectations for NHS hospitals. For every pound of | :43:11. | :43:15. | |
headroom we want to create, only 40p in the pound will come from those | :43:16. | :43:19. | |
kind of savings. There are other things we need to do nationally and | :43:20. | :43:25. | |
more fundamentally, we have a need to change the way clear is organised | :43:26. | :43:30. | |
between GPs and mental health care. If you're not going for all the | :43:31. | :43:33. | |
savings you were going for the government's money is not going up | :43:34. | :43:37. | |
at all, clearly there is going to be a gap. Do you not have to go back | :43:38. | :43:42. | |
and ask for more for the government -- from the government? You said | :43:43. | :43:46. | |
this was the bottom end of what was needed. Since then all that red has | :43:47. | :43:50. | |
appeared on the graph. Do you not need to go to George Osborne and | :43:51. | :43:55. | |
say, we have to come with our cab once more? For the | :43:56. | :44:10. | |
year we are in, we have got the funding increases we need to | :44:11. | :44:13. | |
kick-start the changes that the health service needs to bring about. | :44:14. | :44:16. | |
On the back of that we will make substantial inroads into the | :44:17. | :44:18. | |
hospital deficit. Over time, the NHS will need to share the fruits of | :44:19. | :44:21. | |
economic growth in this country. That is why it is critically | :44:22. | :44:23. | |
important for the NHS that the British economy continues to do | :44:24. | :44:26. | |
well. I have worked in the NHS on another 20 years. The moments when | :44:27. | :44:30. | |
the NHS has been under the most pressure are the moments when the | :44:31. | :44:34. | |
British economy has stalled. The connection between the two is | :44:35. | :44:39. | |
crucial. If the British economy carries on growing, you think the | :44:40. | :44:42. | |
government needs to put more than the ?8 billion in to get the | :44:43. | :44:46. | |
seven-day working week and everything it wants? We have said we | :44:47. | :44:52. | |
need that as a minimum in order to deliver the kinds of improvements in | :44:53. | :44:55. | |
the NHS we want to create over time. That will be a question for | :44:56. | :44:58. | |
governments to consider alongside other priorities. There is an | :44:59. | :45:03. | |
argument that says if there was more money available soon, social care is | :45:04. | :45:07. | |
an important place to put that money. We are currently spending | :45:08. | :45:12. | |
around ?1 billion a year and patients who are stuck in hospital | :45:13. | :45:16. | |
who could be looked after outside hospital. | :45:17. | :45:20. | |
David Laws was sitting there not so long ago and said you had asked for | :45:21. | :45:27. | |
more than ?8 billion, but they had rather sad to new and it was the | :45:28. | :45:30. | |
most you felt you could get before the election, is that true? It is no | :45:31. | :45:35. | |
secret what we asked for, it is on the NHS England website. We said in | :45:36. | :45:39. | |
the five-year review that the NHS would need at least 8 billion at | :45:40. | :45:46. | |
that, in turn, we had to make sufficient deficiencies, and the | :45:47. | :45:51. | |
assessment of that and the Spending Review are there publicly for | :45:52. | :45:55. | |
everybody to see. Very simple, do you want more than ?8 billion? | :45:56. | :46:00. | |
Overtime, the NHS would benefit from extra investment but for that to | :46:01. | :46:03. | |
happen we understand the economy as a whole has got to grow. Two of your | :46:04. | :46:08. | |
predecessors say the NHS would suffer if we left the EU. We just | :46:09. | :46:12. | |
heard Penny Mordaunt and lots of other saying that if we leave the EU | :46:13. | :46:17. | |
we get a ?10 billion bonus, as it were, and most of that goes straight | :46:18. | :46:23. | |
to the NHS, it would solve all your problems? I take very seriously the | :46:24. | :46:27. | |
conversation you had with the governor of the Bank of England who | :46:28. | :46:30. | |
was sitting in this chair last week and when Mark Carney says that the | :46:31. | :46:35. | |
risk of a slowdown in economic growth, possibly a recession, if we | :46:36. | :46:43. | |
end up X sitting the EU, if Mark Carney is right then that is a | :46:44. | :46:47. | |
severe concern -- if we end up leaving the EU. That is a concern | :46:48. | :46:51. | |
for the health service because it would be dangerous if at precisely | :46:52. | :46:56. | |
the moment the NHS will need extra funding the economy goes into a | :46:57. | :47:00. | |
tailspin and the funding is not fair. What would it mean in real | :47:01. | :47:05. | |
terms for the NHS? We can see that we are able, we have got a clear | :47:06. | :47:09. | |
plan to improve cancer services, saving 30,000 lives over the next | :47:10. | :47:13. | |
five years, we need to upgrade Mental Health Services and | :47:14. | :47:16. | |
strengthen primary care in order to put the fuel in the tank we need the | :47:17. | :47:21. | |
proceeds of economic growth. An economic shock would put lives at | :47:22. | :47:25. | |
risk, you would not get the cancer care and support that you would | :47:26. | :47:29. | |
otherwise invest in? Through the 68 years of the NHS's history, when the | :47:30. | :47:34. | |
British economy sneezes the NHS catches a cold. This would be a | :47:35. | :47:37. | |
terrible moment for that to happen at precisely the time the NHS is | :47:38. | :47:41. | |
going to need the extra investment. As the man in charge of the NHS, you | :47:42. | :47:45. | |
are saying to voters now, bowed to stay inside the EU to protect the | :47:46. | :47:52. | |
NHS? It is not my job to do that at all, I'm simply assessing, speaking | :47:53. | :47:58. | |
for the NHS and talking about what the NHS will require, and I think | :47:59. | :48:04. | |
any nurse, any doctor, any patient will tell you that, over time, the | :48:05. | :48:08. | |
NHS is going to need more investment. The reality is, anything | :48:09. | :48:14. | |
that puts out at risk is a deep concern. Let me put you the other | :48:15. | :48:18. | |
side of the argument, in Mark Carney's comments and other | :48:19. | :48:32. | |
comments, lots of ifs and maybes, whereas on the Brexit side they say, | :48:33. | :48:37. | |
here is a concrete ?10 million bonus that we get from leaving the EU and | :48:38. | :48:41. | |
it goes to you guys, you are swapping a concrete, serious upfront | :48:42. | :48:47. | |
and relatively quick offer of money for the worry of what might happen | :48:48. | :48:53. | |
in the distant future? Unfortunately the UK statistics authority has | :48:54. | :48:56. | |
shown that that isn't actually money that would be available to the NHS | :48:57. | :49:01. | |
because when you met off what we did with what we receive it is a rather | :49:02. | :49:06. | |
lower figure than that, and even if all of it were deployed to the NHS, | :49:07. | :49:11. | |
it is enough to fund the NHS for 19 days each year. It will fund us from | :49:12. | :49:18. | |
19 days a year. For the other 11.5 months, it is the performance of the | :49:19. | :49:23. | |
economy which will count. So he rejected that argument, but what | :49:24. | :49:27. | |
about migration? To raise a admitted that we could see an extra 3 million | :49:28. | :49:32. | |
people coming in from across the EU if we stay, and then there are | :49:33. | :49:36. | |
argument about Turkey and so forth. One of the big questions on the NHS | :49:37. | :49:40. | |
right now in accident and emergency department is the sheer numbers of | :49:41. | :49:44. | |
people coming through the doors. More migration means more people | :49:45. | :49:47. | |
coming through the doors, more pressure on the NHS, and the crisis | :49:48. | :49:53. | |
gets worse, not better. The NHS has benefited enormously from EU nurses | :49:54. | :49:57. | |
and doctors who we successfully recruit and help staff our hospitals | :49:58. | :50:04. | |
and nursing homes. Take an example, this morning I was looking at the | :50:05. | :50:08. | |
figures of Penny Mordaunt's local hospital as she was talking. 80 of | :50:09. | :50:14. | |
the doctors are from the rest of the European Union, 350 nurses in her | :50:15. | :50:18. | |
local hospital from the European Union, and if a proportion of those | :50:19. | :50:23. | |
chose to obstacle and leave on the 24th of June, it would create real | :50:24. | :50:26. | |
problems in hospitals across the country. But why would they? There | :50:27. | :50:30. | |
is a Strasberg agreement, they don't have to go, they can stay if they | :50:31. | :50:37. | |
want to. If there are work permits, migration resumes, the rest of it, | :50:38. | :50:41. | |
my point is that the NHS has benefited greatly from the ability | :50:42. | :50:46. | |
to have European Union nurses alongside the increases we need a | :50:47. | :50:49. | |
British trained nurses, doctors, which we are putting in place. In | :50:50. | :50:55. | |
proportional terms and in broad terms there were far more from | :50:56. | :50:58. | |
India, Pakistan, Bangladesh and so forth than from the rest of the EU. | :50:59. | :51:04. | |
Across the whole of the NHS, EU employees are only around 5% so it | :51:05. | :51:10. | |
is not Armageddon? We have 130,000 European Union nurses, doctors, care | :51:11. | :51:14. | |
workers in the NHS and care homes and we would surely miss the | :51:15. | :51:19. | |
benefits they bring, were some of them to choose to leave. But you | :51:20. | :51:25. | |
asked a related question about the impact of migration, the pressure on | :51:26. | :51:29. | |
services that it places. This is not black and white. It clearly isn't | :51:30. | :51:35. | |
the case that where those migrants are paying taxes, it is contributing | :51:36. | :51:41. | |
to the revenues that can forge and expand the NHS. When the NHS was set | :51:42. | :51:47. | |
up in 1948 we had a population of 50 million in this country, we are at | :51:48. | :51:51. | |
65 million now that the NHS has successfully coped with a 15 million | :51:52. | :51:56. | |
expansion in our population, provided it is properly resourced | :51:57. | :51:59. | |
from the proceeds of economic growth it can do that. There is a perfectly | :52:00. | :52:04. | |
legitimate argument to be had on these topics but from the NHS' | :52:05. | :52:08. | |
perspective it is pretty clear that the balance of the advantage is such | :52:09. | :52:14. | |
that risks would be greater were we to find ourselves in economic | :52:15. | :52:18. | |
downturn, were we to find a number of our nurses and doctors | :52:19. | :52:22. | |
contemplated leaving and, indeed, if the pound were affected because a | :52:23. | :52:25. | |
lot of the drug treatments that we buy are priced in euros and dollars | :52:26. | :52:29. | |
so that would make it more difficult for us to get the treatments that we | :52:30. | :52:34. | |
need at an affordable price. That is pretty clear. It is a big moment for | :52:35. | :52:38. | |
somebody in your position to enter this political debate so | :52:39. | :52:41. | |
forthrightly. Did you have a long look in the mirror before you did? | :52:42. | :52:46. | |
Everybody else has an opinion about the NHS, and therefore I think it is | :52:47. | :52:50. | |
perfectly reasonable for the NHS itself, when asked, to lay out the | :52:51. | :52:58. | |
balance of the advantage, objective, in an non-sensationalist way, these | :52:59. | :53:01. | |
are the practicalities the NHS would be facing, and as one of the | :53:02. | :53:05. | |
nation's most important institutions it seems reasonable that as we take | :53:06. | :53:09. | |
one of these big important national decisions it goes into the balance. | :53:10. | :53:14. | |
This week we had a big Government U-turn over the so-called TTIP | :53:15. | :53:23. | |
issue, which are a lot of people felt the NHS would be threatened by, | :53:24. | :53:28. | |
opening it up to Private American pharmaceutical and health care | :53:29. | :53:30. | |
companies coming in and grabbing bits of the NHS. Were you as worried | :53:31. | :53:35. | |
about the TTIP at Ayew relieved that the U-turn have happened? The | :53:36. | :53:39. | |
European commission has been completely straight that nothing in | :53:40. | :53:42. | |
any trade agreement would undermine our ability to run a publicly funded | :53:43. | :53:48. | |
service, to the extent that the Government has also given as yours | :53:49. | :53:52. | |
is on that point today. I think that is a concern that has now updated. | :53:53. | :53:56. | |
Thank you for joining us today, it is all we have got time for. | :53:57. | :53:58. | |
You may have noticed that all sorts of claims and statistics | :53:59. | :54:01. | |
are being thrown around by both sides in this referendum campaign. | :54:02. | :54:04. | |
To get to the facts behind them, the BBC is attempting - | :54:05. | :54:07. | |
Have a look at the BBC website for all the details. | :54:08. | :54:11. | |
And now, a look at what's coming up immediately after this programme. | :54:12. | :54:14. | |
Join us live from Oxford when an alliance of former leading police | :54:15. | :54:23. | |
officers in 26 organisations attacked the Government's counter | :54:24. | :54:26. | |
extremism bill and we ask if the proposals are compatible with | :54:27. | :54:30. | |
freedom of religion. Then, should abortion be decriminalised? That is | :54:31. | :54:34. | |
on BBC One at 10am. Two very interesting questions | :54:35. | :54:35. | |
there. That's all we have time for today - | :54:36. | :54:37. | |
thanks to all my guests. Andrew Neil will be here | :54:38. | :54:40. | |
with the Sunday Politics in an hour. He'll be talking to Lord Owen | :54:41. | :54:43. | |
about why he thinks the NHS is safer PJ Harvey will play us out | :54:44. | :54:47. | |
in a moment with The Community Of Hope from her new number one | :54:48. | :54:52. | |
album, The Hope Six Demolition We talked earlier this morning, | :54:53. | :54:55. | |
and I asked her about the very strange background to this modern | :54:56. | :54:59. | |
protest song. Working closely with the | :55:00. | :55:01. | |
photographer Seamus Murphy, who had done a lot of travelling all his | :55:02. | :55:07. | |
life as a photojournalist, I began to travel with him | :55:08. | :55:10. | |
and the first country we went to was Kosovo, | :55:11. | :55:16. | |
we also went to Afghanistan, and then we thought for a long time | :55:17. | :55:18. | |
about what would be another country to visit before we felt we'd | :55:19. | :55:21. | |
finished a project of an album and also a book, it became a book | :55:22. | :55:24. | |
called The Hollow Of The Hand. We decided that Washington, | :55:25. | :55:28. | |
DC felt like the right A lot of decisions were made | :55:29. | :55:30. | |
there that affected Afghanistan, affected Kosovo, but it was also | :55:31. | :55:48. | |
a nice place to go back and I, as a writer, was trying to look | :55:49. | :55:52. | |
at the similarities I could find, of Washington, DC called Anacostia, | :55:53. | :55:55. | |
which is south of the river was a very poor part, very rundown | :55:56. | :56:10. | |
neighbourhood, and I talked to a lot of the people there, | :56:11. | :56:12. | |
we spent about a week on the streets talking to people, listening | :56:13. | :56:16. | |
to what they had to say, and I just collected notes as | :56:17. | :56:19. | |
a journalist might. You talk about yourself now | :56:20. | :56:25. | |
as a journalist as much Do the two go together for you, | :56:26. | :56:27. | |
you are out there bringing Well, I still call myself | :56:28. | :56:35. | |
a songwriter, really. My biggest drive | :56:36. | :56:38. | |
in my life is to want to sing to people, that's the way | :56:39. | :56:46. | |
I get across the things that interest me and the things | :56:47. | :56:49. | |
that concern me. We're now going to hear | :56:50. | :56:51. | |
a song from the album. Take it away, Polly, | :56:52. | :56:53. | |
thanks very much. # Here's the Hope Six | :56:54. | :56:57. | |
Demolition Project. # And here's the one | :56:58. | :57:01. | |
sit-down restaurant. # Just zombies, | :57:02. | :57:15. | |
but that's just life. # The community of hope, | :57:16. | :57:24. | |
hope, hope, hope. # Here's the highway | :57:25. | :57:41. | |
to death and destruction. # And the school just | :57:42. | :57:45. | |
looks like a hole. # And here's God's | :57:46. | :57:52. | |
deliverance centre. # The community of hope, | :57:53. | :58:06. | |
hope, hope, hope. # They're gonna put | :58:07. | :58:25. | |
a Walmart here #. | :58:26. | :58:56. |