05/06/2016 The Andrew Marr Show

As we say goodbye to the greatest sportsman of the last century,

we can't offer you a Rumble in the Jungle this morning,

but as the EU campaign heads towards knockout,

we have two heavyweights for a Sunday morning showdown.

In the blue corner, arguing for Remain,

Sir John Major, former Prime Minister.

leader of the Vote Leave insurrection Boris Johnson.

I don't have much time for anything else,

to the Hollywood A-lister Jesse Eisenberg

on playing the ultimate comic-book villain, Lex Luthor.

Casting an eye over this morning's news,

the man who gave both David Cameron and Michael Gove

a pretty good pummelling over the last few days,

Faisal Islam, political editor of Sky News.

the Green Party's once and perhaps future leader,

and from the board of Vote Leave, Suzanne Evans.

The family of Muhammad Ali say people from all over the world

are invited to the boxer's funeral in his hometown

Details of the service were revealed at a news conference in Arizona,

where Ali died yesterday at the age of 74.

Oh, my God, he's won the title back at 32!

Even the vanquished have been paying tribute.

George Foreman, floored by Muhammad Ali in the eighth

round of the so-called Rumble in the Jungle,

called him "the Greatest", and he was not alone.

In Louisville, Kentucky, where Ali grew up,

preparations are under way for the final homecoming.

On Friday, his body will be driven through the streets ahead

of a multi-faith memorial service at a local basketball arena.

Meanwhile, further details have emerged

a condition where the blood pressure drops dangerously low,

surrounded at the time by members of his family.

His daughter Hana posted pictures of her father

and said on social media that his heart kept beating

for 30 minutes after other organs failed.

A testament, she said, to his strength of will.

Muhammad Ali's funeral, and the procession preceding it,

promises to be an event like no other.

clustered around their television sets to watch his epic title fights,

so millions will witness his final journey on TV and social media.

David Willis, BBC News, Scottsdale, Arizona.

will lead the tributes at Muhammad Ali's funeral.

His death has sparked a political row in the US

in the run-up to the presidential elections.

Donald Trump said Ali would be missed by all.

But the Democratic hopeful Senator Bernie Sanders

Last year, Ali condemned a call by Mr Trump

for a ban on Muslims entering the US.

Here, the Prime Minister and Chancellor are warning

that the cost of an average mortgage would rise by nearly ?1,000 per year

They say a British exit would lead to tighter credit conditions.

But the Vote Leave campaign have called that a "bogeyman" claim.

Meanwhile, Boris Johnson and Michael Gove

saying voters "cannot trust" the Government

over possible future eurozone bailouts.

who buy tickets from unofficial websites

could be refused entry to matches at Euro 2016 in France,

Uefa rules prevent tickets from being sold on,

but the consumer group Which claims some unauthorised online sellers

are charging as much as ?5,000 per game.

Andy Murray will take on the world number one,

Novak Djokovic, in the final of the French Open today.

to reach this stage of the competition for nearly 80 years.

Djokovic has won 12 of their past 14 matches,

in the final of the Italian Open in Rome last month.

That's all from me. Back to you, Andrew.

There are days when the most impertinent? Important person is the

picture editor, and thou have they done? This could be an award-winning

cover on the Sunday Times. The Observer, a superb picture of Ali, a

beautiful photograph. And the Sunday Telegraph have done well, a really

quite scary picture, coming towards the reader at the top of the Sunday

Telegraph, but lots more to talk about there. He shook up the world,

the Sunday Mirror. The crux dumber Greatest, a colour photograph, I

prefer a black and white one, but sometimes simplicity is the best.

This refers to as daughter's tweet that we heard about on the news. I

am not sure about the Sun on Sunday! We are going to start, because we

are a political programme, with the politics. Faisal Islam, you are a

political man through and through, and you have chosen perhaps the most

interesting of the many interviews in today's's papers as either side

comes out. The Prime Minister has come and fighting, bringing it back

to Boris Johnson and all of his arguments seem to come back to

quoting him on his arguments about the economy. That is quite

interesting. They say they are trying to avoid blue on blue, it

seems to be percolating through the whole of this interview. Another

interview with the Chancellor, George Osborne, again the same sorts

of messages around the economy, perhaps the most interesting line is

that he says it is a battle for the soul of the country. I am pretty

sure Suzanne and those on the Leave side agree. And Michael Gove making

the issue about the economy, he said in an interview that we did earlier

this week, you know, expert opinion, people are fed up with it. David

Smith, the economics editor of the Sunday Times, talking about leaving

the single market, risking a world of pain. The Prime Minister's I come

and will be focused on the single market, perhaps as much as the EU,

in the days to come. -- the Prime Minister's argument. Boris Johnson

will be talking about that later. Of those two interviews, which have

both been spectacular, which was the hardest? Did you change your mind

about either of them? You have written in the Observer. They were

both very difficult, they are both superb debaters. Perhaps coming

second was an advantage, but we felt it was an important moment for the

country, and you need to be robust in shaking the tree and seeing what

comes out of that, when you shake the tree rather aggressively, and we

got new information out of both of them. We are looking forward to the

rest of the TV specials. Lots more to come. All right, Suzanne Evans,

you have taken the letter to the Prime Minister, they write a lot of

letters, these guys. The headline is likely misleading, because it tells

also been signed by Gisela Stuart, a Labour MP. It is trying to put David

Cameron on the back foot, because the point we need to make is that

our membership of the EU leaves Britain dangerously exposed to being

forced into handing more money to Brussels, and this is the

fundamental crux of the matter. What is important about this letter is it

is about Vote Leave taking the initiative on the economy, showing

just how serious the crisis in the eurozone is at the moment, even

though we are not in the euro, that is absolutely hitting us and will

hit us very hard already. We have got ?9 billion with loans and

bailout outstanding, and this is not going to stop, Greece is expected to

miss its July payment, Italy's debt is racking up. The point is that it

is just as dangerous staying on. We have not got a choice of business as

usual, each one takes us into new territory. It is not a vote for the

status quo, and on the economy it is very dangerous, because if we vote

to remain, it will be a green light for Brussels to say, Britain wants

to stay in, full steam ahead. You used the Wood Green Kamal Ahmed to

bring in Caroline Lucas! -- you used the word green, allowing me to bring

in Caroline Lucas. Thank goodness! They are taking misinformation to a

new level, trying to persuade us they are going to be the champions

of progressive politics. They are saying that leaving the EU would

liberate them to invest in public services. We have already seen the

Tory government trying to invest in public services, haven't we? Not

excite this is them trying to pretend Brexit is the only way to

realise the dream of a one-nation Britain. They are not interested in

that, and essentially you have got the complaining about the EU being

all about corporate giants, bankers, the undeserving rich. The idea that

these people care about us, this is the agenda they have been running in

government, it stinks of hypocrisy. Is this campaign beginning to morph

into an alternative government on offer? We have almost a pledge card

from the Leave side. Before we get onto that, I just wanted to pick up

a rather wonderful piece in your article today, Faisal, this lovely

expression, talking about post-truth politics, the elevation of strategic

political lying to an art form. This is what is happening with this ?350

million... It doesn't apply to all sides, I should say. We know this

bus with the numbers and is a lie. It is a complete lie! Faisal, sort

them out! OK... It is about the amount of money British people but

into the economy... Ladies, please! It is not just about the

Conservatives, Andrew, the arguments we are hearing, they will be the

same for the next 18 days, with Labour voters, they will unlock this

referendum technically, in terms of the sheer numbers. There is a very

interesting poll in the Observer just underneath your piece, showing

the big groups of Leave and Remain voters, and those most likely to

vote for Remain Labour voters. If they turn out - unions are putting

in millions of pounds for Labour canvassers working for the in

campaign. Now we have Jeremy Corbyn, Pat John McDonnell is most

interesting, saying that the Conservative establishment should

step back from the blue on blue framing of the campaign, and people

like him should step up, he can make the progressive case that Caroline

was talking about. We need some women making the case, I am grateful

that the Remain campaign will be putting up three women to take on

Boris, a very wise idea, but if you look at the papers around us, this

is dominated by men. It is dominated by the same arguments. Priti Patel

has been right at the front. I think, as well, as Faisal is saying,

the economy on one side, immigration on the other, but there are 1

million other arguments that are not getting any airspace. For example,

the environment, we know environmental problems are across

boundaries, they do not queue up at borders. You have a Times story

about every pollution. A perfect example of where you need EU laws to

try to reduce it. This is the story of a mother who believes that Evelyn

contributed to her daughter's fatal asthma attack, and she is preparing

to sue the Mayor of London as a result. -- who believes that air

pollution contributed. If they were dying as a result of gun crime, we

would see some commensurate action. The fact that it is an environmental

problem, a problem of inequality, the fact that people in the poorest

areas of our country, people from ethnic minorities in particular,

they are on the front line of this. This is a story not just about the

environment but inequality. She is suing the London mayor, is what

she's saying, how is that EU problem? There is a parallel case,

the client is taking action against the EU. Let's keep moving on. It is

not just a EU problem. We have got another story, I want to keep

rushing through. One of the things that is really good about this

referendum, in the Sun, some of the issues that come up and EU level

pass under the radar and go unnoticed and pass into legislation

without anybody noticing. The referendum is bringing some of these

to the fore, and this is the latest EU tax initiative, which is meaning

that we will all be given a new personal European taxpayer idea

number. The Sun says the plan has been drawn up and has been

rubber-stamped by the EU parliament's economic and monetary

affairs committee. This is the kind of thing I was talking about

earlier, not the status quo, they are taking control of tax, it will

be wages and benefits. They also plan to set up and -- a

register of assets. Let us lead elegantly to social

media. An interesting story about Damian McBride.

My colleague Neil Paterson spotted a tweet that appeared to be a direct

message, occasionally one can make this mistake, this appeared last

night from Damian McBride, the former advisor to Gordon Brown, the

current adviser to the Shadow Defence Secretary.

Big in the Labour family. And helping the boat Leave campaign.

He speaks about somebody called MG, who could that be?

Michael Gove. According to the politics home

website, Damian Brian Grummitt says it is a personal friendship thing --

Damian McBride. We must mention Muhammad Ali, some

fantastic pictures and stories. The Sunday Telegraph, the most

beautiful picture. Black and white. You get that sense

of the magnetism of all these people wanting to be close to him.

His personality comes over. The Sunday Times front page as Ed

deserved the award, I don't know if they have won it here.

Not just a sporting com historical icon. I was born after his last

fights. His famous quote has a second line, your hands can't hit

what your rise can't see. There is a suggestion he started wrap is it, to

add to his other extraordinary achievements.

An extraordinarily eloquent man. Some great quotes, I am the

greatest, I said that even before I knew I was, and he comes across in

parts as being a philosopher. Cassius Clay is my slave name, I

didn't choose it. Muhammad Ali means the God, I insist people use it when

people speak of me. Wonderful. Live every day, like it

is your last because Sunday you are going to be right, how poignant.

A very good motto for all of us. Now the weather, and there's a taste

summer coming today for some of us. Over to Jay Wynne

in the weather studio. Looking pretty good, after a slow

start. We have some mist and fog fairly extensively, but it is

breaking and burning its way back to the eastern coast. The immediate

eastern coastal strip will be cooler than inland where it will be lovely

with sunshine. A scattering of showers across the western side of

the UK. Inland, 26 degrees widely, cooler for the North Sea coast.

Showers this afternoon could be on the sharp side. Fading away

overnight. Mist and fog will return to eastern coastal counties by dawn.

A few places will slip into single figures. Further west, a warm night.

A bright start tomorrow. A slow start on the eastern side. Inland,

plenty of sunshine and some warmth, just a scattering of showers in the

south and west. A much higher chance of seeing showers on Tuesday, some

could be heavy. Now to main event, part one -

Sir John Major, who struggled through every day

of his premiership against rebellious,

anti-Brussels Tories. He's described the Leave campaign

as an unforgivable fraud on the British people,

and he joins me now. Those are strong words, are you

referring when you talk about that, too Boris Johnson in particular?

It goes much wider. As the leader, Boris is in a position to stop it. I

felt that for several reasons. Firstly on the economy. And what

would happen if we actually left. The Leave campaign has said nothing

to the British people. But they have said about leaving is fundamentally

dishonest about the cost of Europe. On the subject they have veered

towards having lost the economic argument of immigration, I think

their campaign is verging on the squalid, I have said so before.

I am happy to say so again. Is it not possible these are thoroughly

honourable men who have taken a big political risk, missed their

political reputations and futures, standing for something they

fundamentally believe in and agreed bid by a huge number of British

people? I have no doubt there are many in

this country, including members of the Leave campaign who believe what

they say, I have never questioned that. For Boris, it was a late

conversion. I don't know if it was a day trip to Damascus. At the last

moment, everyone thought he was in favour of staying. He has made up

his mind and I respect that. Now they have begun, they are feeding to

the British people a galaxy of inaccurate and frankly untrue

information. What they have not done is tell us what would be the

position if we were to vote to leave. It would be chaotic and

damaging. The people who would suffer most would be the ordinary,

everyday man and woman in the street.

They need to tell us if they wish us to leave what it would be like, and

how they would then meet some of the objectives they have set out. They

have said an extra 300,000 jobs would be created because we could

strike our own trade deals with the US, China and other countries. It is

fantasy. We have 3 million jobs connected, not wholly relied, but

connected to our present trade with the EU and the single market. I

gather their current policy is they will leave the single market. There

would be a great hole according to every commentator in our public

finances. These promises of expenditure on the

NHS and elsewhere are fact Lusk, a deceit. We would lose a huge amount

in terms of national income through trade, small businesses who sell

their goods to Europe, who would sell less because if we let the

single market, we would face a tariff barrier around 10%. We would

sell less. People would lose their jobs. We would find ourselves in a

worse position and the Leave campaign can turn to no serious

organisation who believes what they have said about the economy, and

about the future of Britain in the single market.

You are saying this is a deceitful campaign, are you saying Boris

Johnson is lying? I am not personalising this, though

I find it difficult to understand how Boris can justify the ?350

million he has won his battle bus that he and Michael Gove have

defended time and again. You know, I know, the IFS knows, everyone knows,

Boris knows, the real net amount we sent to Europe is about one third of

that, after the rebate and the money paid back to our fishermen, farmers,

researchers, the we sent a Europe is about one third of the amount they

claim. If they can't be and honest on a

clear-cut fact like that, upon what else can we trust them?

You use words like straightforward, honest, deceitful, yet you are not

saying you are personalising this. I am talking about the Leave

campaign, not individuals. I will tell you, throughout the

whole of my political life, people have regarded me of being guilty of

understatement. I am angry at the way the British

people are being misled. This is much more important than a

general election, this will affect people, their livelihoods, their

future, for a very long time to come.

If they are given honest, straightforward facts and they

decide to leave, that is the decision the British people take.

If they decide on the basis of inaccurate information, known to be

inaccurate, I regard that as deceitful.

I may be wrong but that is how I see their campaign.

This is so important. For once, I am not prepared to give the benefit of

the doubt, I will say what I think exactly.

I think this is a deceitful campaign. In terms of what they are

saying about immigration, a really depressing and awful campaign. They

are misleading people to an extraordinary extent.

Let's let us move to emigration, as promised, immigration was below

50,000. It is now a third of a million and rising fast. It is not

racist or xenophobic to be really worried about that, the effect on

schools. Everyone is worried about that. But

they don't seem to have an answer. We will come directly to that if you

wish. Let me take that head on.

Immigration is very high, this causes great troubles for us, not

only us but across Europe. Half the world is on the move at the moment

because of what is happening in north Africa, the Middle East, fears

about Russia, eastern Europe, the economic difficulty within the

eurozone, there are a lot of people on the move. They come here because

we are a great and successful country. The nonsense we hear about

let us get our Mojo back and be a great country, we are great and

successful which is why people are coming to us. How long will this

last? It is a serious problem. You will see a diminution as the

eurozone recovers, and it is recovering, growing as fast as us.

But it isn't just us. The point that really angers me is the utterly

false suggestion repeated more than once, not in the single off-hand

remark but in scripted speeches, that we face the risk of 88 million

Turks coming here. Firstly, Turkey are not in the EU. They are unlikely

to be in the EU in the next decade or two, even if they were, we are

outside the Schengen Agreement. In any event, is it seriously suggested

as they do that all 88 million would come here? Apparently, for our

higher National living wage, on the one hand they say migrants are

depressing wages, on the other, people are flooding in to get our

higher national wage. That is nonsense on stilts.

The EU wants Turkey to join, the British garment wants them to join,

the Prime Minister has said he would pave the way from Brussels to

Ankara. This is not a complete fantasy.

This decision could be with us the 30 or 50 years, during that

period... The Turks have been negotiating for

30 years a series of different things. Negotiated one of about 30.

Even if they could reach agreement with the EU, any one nation in the

EU could veto their joining. The French have already said they would

have a referendum on that issue. The Germans almost certainly will follow

suit. Turkey will not be in the EU for a very long time, if ever, for a

series of practical reasons. And the Leave campaign knows that.

That is the point. There are people watching this who will say, hold on,

Sir John Major, the man who negotiated the Maastricht Treaty, at

that time, you got your opt outs, I was there at the time in the rain

and dark. Nonetheless, we were being told that the EU was not going to

evolve into a very centralised superstate and sprawl and spread.

Actually, your critics were right then, that is what has happened.

It hasn't. You are right, I did negotiate the opt out for the single

currency. I am told by the Leave campaign I am wrong on everything

about you but I was wrong on that. And this is the direction of

travel... We were out of Shannon because I

declined to join in 1996. What happened, we negotiated at

Maastricht a safeguard, the subsidiarity safeguard, which was

then bypassed. David Cameron has now effectively reinstated that with his

red card system. It has been reinstated. Any more power in a

treaty, this is very important, a treaty to Europe, would have by

British law to be approved in a referendum. If there is a grab

towards a superstate which they may integrate further inside the

eurozone, but we're not in the eurozone.

Does not leave us a rickety side cast going to a place we don't want

to go. Only if you think we are a little

country. We are a big country, one of the biggest countries in the

European union, outside the eurozone, we are not responsible for

their debts, we're not going to be responsible for their debts, we will

not enter the eurozone. We are staying in a wider Europe. We will

continue to trade with Europe if we are wise. But we're not involved in

what is happening in the part of Europe which is in difficulty. If we

cut ourselves adrift, we will become a vastly diminished country.

We were talking about the world after Brexit, you will have seen a

series of pledges 100 minute pounds a week the NHS, an Australian style

points system, new farming subsidies. It is beginning to look

like another manifesto. Well, it is certainly very ill

thought out. The concept that people running the Brexit campaign would

care for the NHS is a rather odd one. Michael Gove wanted to

privatise it, Boris wanted to charge people for using it, Iain Duncan

Smith wanted a social insurance system. The NHS is about as safe as

them as a pet hamster with a hungry python. I do not think that is very

wise. As far as immigration is concerned, what they are planning is

immensely difficult. Let us suppose that they win, let us suppose that

for a moment, and it is possible, and it is possible. Let us suppose

that they win and their policies on immigration were implemented.

Firstly, as you know, the Scots may hold another referendum, we might

end up with Britain out of the European Union and Scotland out of

the UK. If Scotland is out of the UK, you, Andrew, you will be a

migrant. I will be sent back over the border, I am sure! How are they

going to reduce the numbers? There are more people coming into this

country from outside the European Union than inside. Who are the

people they are going to send back? The 52,000 doctors in the NHS?

Doctors and nurses? The 80,000 care workers? I think they are not

talking about sending anybody back, the Luxembourg Agreement means we

can stay. How are they going to reduce the numbers? Who will they

stop coming in? Footballers? We need some practical information, and we

are now at getting it. People are being invited to vote for a pig in a

poke. Two final thoughts, is this about Boris Johnson's personal

ambition? I cannot see inside his mind, and I wouldn't attempt to try

and do so. But I would just offer this piece of friendly advice, I

like Boris, I don't know him well, but what I've seen of him, he is a

very engaging and charming court jester and a very engaging and

charming public figure, and he is very likeable, and people like him.

But I would offer in this piece of advice. If the Leave campaign led by

Boris continued to divide the Conservative Party, as we are doing

at the present time, and if Boris as the laudable ambition, for it is

laudable, to become Prime Minister, he will find, if he achieves that,

that he will not have the loyalty of the party leader divided. Iain

Duncan Smith was serially disloyal in the 1990s. When he became leader,

he was surprised that no-one was loyal to him. Boris should learn

from that. I think Boris, for all his instincts in the past, those of

a one-nation Tory, which is where I stand, he seems to have drifted away

from that with the way in which they are approaching immigration and some

of the other things. I would like to see him get back, cos if he gets

back, here is an engaging, important, engaging Conservative

figure. Do you think the Conservative Party is in danger of

dividing? Well, we will have to wait and see. All I can say is that,

whether the Conservative Party divides or not is one thing we must

look at in the future, but that is not as important as the decision

that we have to make. This is not about political parties, it is not

about the elites, it is about the everyday man and woman in the

street, and their children and grandchildren. It is their future

that we will play Russian roulette with if we leave the European Union.

Last question, given what you have said about Boris Johnson today and

in the past, is he fit to be Prime Minister? I am not making that

judgment, that is a matter for a much wider, a much wider view than

mine, a matter for the Conservative Party, ultimately the whole

electorate, so I would not be so impertinent as to have a suggestion

either way. I merely say that whether Boris is Prime Minister, it

is no doubt an important matter for Boris and other people, but it is

less important than the decision we have to take in less than three

weeks' time. That is crucial, and I must say, if I may put it this way,

of all the participants, there is nobody on the Leave side of the

campaign who has, as I have, sat at the top table in Europe for seven

years. And I know from what I have seen inside the European Union that

what they say about an elected elites is absolute hogwash. --

unelected. The commission are appointed for a limited period of

time, they are told to produce legislation, which then has to be

approved by ministers, the European Parliament, the Westminster

Parliament. The belief that an unelected elite is running wild is

copper bottomed nonsense. Thank you very much for talking to us, Boris

Johnson will be here soon. A break from politics first!

Ever since his breakthrough performance

as Mark Zuckerberg in The Social Network,

Jesse Eisenberg has become one of the hottest names in Hollywood.

But rather irritatingly, he's also an accomplished writer

of short stories and plays, including one

which has just opened in London to great acclaim, The Spoils.

We talked about that recently, but began by discussing

the reaction to his performance as the dastardly Lex Luthor

in this year's blockbuster movie Batman versus Superman.

Civil liberties are being trampled on in your city,

people living in fear. He thinks he's above the law.

Bruce Wayne meets Clark Kent, I love it!

I love bringing people together, how are we?

Wow, that is a good grip, you should not pick a fight

Playing Lex Luthor in Superman versus Batman, you were the first

to play a younger Lex Luthor than the main characters.

You played him as a deeply troubled kid almost.

How do you deal with the hostile critics?

You have lots of unhostile critics. How do you deal with the bad ones?

I don't read anything, good reviews or bad reviews.

I can't imagine that I am going to be aided by somebody else

That's just not helpful to me or interesting to me.

Criticism is wonderful, but it is not written for me,

it's for those who decide whether to pay $10 to see it.

It has no bearing on me whatsoever. I work very hard on everything I do.

I think about it in ways no-one else can think about this.

And I don't want to be influenced by anything else,

What am I going to do, reshoot a movie? I don't know.

I imagine with a movie like Batman, irrespective of any portrayal,

you will get criticism, praise, debate.

All of it is going to be totally out of proportion with what it deserves.

This is a very New York play, it has a very New York feel to it.

You got huge standing ovations in New York.

Here you are, in front of a different London audience.

It has been better here, I don't know what accounts for that.

I don't know if it's the theatre community here

by virtue of it being a more important art form here,

if they are more in tune, listening in a different way.

Listening more acutely, appreciating it in different way.

Because it's an American play, is it a novelty? I don't know.

The reaction has been better than in New York.

It has been an honour and pleasure to be here.

I've always thought of New York as the centre of the world,

But I've always though of London and the UK in general as the centre

of theatre, and the most important place for theatre in the world.

It is quite a bleak view of contemporary America, Ben, your

character, a spoiled rich kid who seems to be drifting through life.

My personal world-view was not summed up by that character. There

are five characters in the play with jobs that benefits society, even if

they are in the banking sector, which we consider less benevolent.

Your banker is quite a good guy, unusual on the stage at the moment.

Four characters in the play, one is a young doctor, she is Indian

American. The other is a teaching incarcerated youth, based on my best

friend. And then my character is bleak, but my character is not

representing my personal world-view. My world-view is represented by all

of them together. That world-view suggests that you think women do a

lot of the heavy lifting, the women hang around behind. I grew up with

strong women, I have been volunteering at a domestic violence

shelter for the last few months, I have a personal connection to that,

so I got to see the best side of a primarily female driven organisation

helping the males get back on their feet. -- the

Yes, my view of women is, yes, at least in my life,

that they tend to be that much more effective.

OK, so you write plays, short stories, I think

a novel as well, you act, using to do everything.

People are talking about you as the new Orson Welles.

Does that daunt you, does it weigh on your

No, because it's not not an accurate portrayal of my ambitions.

What does daunt me is we have one performance in eight hours,

and that's all I can think about until it happens.

That's most daunting thing in the world after it happens,

I have half an hour of relief, then another show the next day,

in the afternoon at 2pm. That is absolutely daunting.

For some reason, we have done 100 performances

of this particular show, I have done 100 of my other plays.

For some reason, it doesn't get easier.

Jesse Eisenberg, thank very much for talking to us.

Earlier we heard an astonishing broadside from Sir John Major,

and surely not one that Boris Johnson can dismiss.

Good morning, Andrew! Dismiss it! I do dismiss it in a way, we have a

short time to go until this referendum, and what people want to

hear the arguments, and what we are setting out on the Leave side of the

campaign is, I think, an agenda for the Government to take back control

on June the 23rd of a lot of things that really mattered to the people

of this country. So yes, the money, not an insignificant sum, yes,

borders, but also very important aspects of our economic life that

invisibly we can no longer control. We want to take them back, we think

it would be great for our country and democracy. I want to get onto

the details later, if I may, but nonetheless Sir John, following

Chris Patten, Michael Heseltine and others, they have all had a really

personal go at you. Are they trying to take you out? Whether it is or

not, I am with John MacDonald this morning... Really?! Unlikely! He

says there is too much of the blue on blue action, and he wants to hear

the arguments. Let's go back to the money side, if we take back control

of the money, we talked about 350 million, we heard that the figure is

fictitious. Not true, imagine I give you... I take out of my wallet and

give you ?350, I gave you ?350. And I give you back 80. And next year,

hang on, you give me back 60 or so, then you decided that you were going

to spend some of it on my behalf... On a haircut! Your priorities, they

may not be my priority is! You decide to spend on what you think

are good things for me, then you give about half of it away and we

never saw it ever again. I think most reasonable people... But you

have not lost ?350 at that point. Most people would say we have lost

control of the 350 million, and it is totally wrong. We get a lot back,

farmers, universities, lots of organisations in the country, money

comes back to them. The point we are making is that we would have a lot

more back, ?10.6 billion a year back, and all we are suggesting,

humbly and respectfully to the Government, is that, yes, they could

spend that on one nation policies for the good of this country, such

as on the National Health Service, such as on cutting VAT on the cost

of fuel for elderly people, which is a huge burden, and which we

currently cannot do because of our membership of the EU. Invisibly,

many aspects of our life are now controlled from the EU, from abroad,

from Brussels, in a way that I think is anti-democratic. At the heart of

this campaign, coming to the second big charge against us, which is that

we are talking too much about immigration and all that, for me, it

is a question of democracy, about public consent. Explaining to people

that at the moment we have no power to control our immigration policy.

Quickfire question, do you want to see immigration come down? I would

like a situation where the Government was able to fulfil its

pledges to the people. If it is going to say that immigration is

going to come down to the tens of thousands, net immigration down to

the tens of thousands from the EU, then it should be in a legal

position to deliver that. At the moment,... Not quite the question I

asked. Thes was yes, I will tell you why, because I think if you look at

the figures last week, we had a net increase of 330,000, 270,000 from

the EU, 184,000 net, a city the size of Oxford, from the EU. Now, the

question that the Remain campaign have do answer is, what is their

long-term vision? What is their programme for the country if the

numbers continue at this rate? Because at the moment, if we grow

the size of a city like Newcastle every year, we will see our

population rise inexorably to about 70 or 80 million. Now, what the

Remain campaign have to say is, what is their vision for this? It may be

a great vision for Britain, by the way, it may be a positive thing, but

where are they going to build the homes? What is going to happen to

the green belt? How will it work for schools and hospitals and all the

public services that will be affected? We are not hearing

anything, any description of how this is supposed to work in the

absence of control. What we are saying is that, on day one post June

the 23rd, you take back control of that, but also of loads of the

management of our economy. We had some disagreement about the

single market, I said to Michael Gove, after Brexit, will you be in

the European single market, he said no.

He was right. Let me explain. I remember we both

covered the dawn of the single market, the joyous moment.

One of the stunning things is in need 20 years since the creation of

the 1992 single market, there were 27 other countries not in the EU who

have done better than the UK at exporting into the single market

goods, and 21 countries who have done better at exporting services,

in which we sell, into the single market.

Why is that? One of the reasons is that this country, we are members of

the single market, we are caught in the toils of regulation, at a rate

of 2500 a year from the EU, costing ?600 million to our business is a

week. The whole programme is one of the

factors making the EU the slowest growing continent on earth apart

from Antarctica. The single market you said leaving

it would cause business uncertainty. Use the image of the Nikkei swoop.

I haven't used that image. What I accept is a hockey stick

might be good. But it still goes down first.

If you study a hockey stick you will see it doesn't go down.

After leaving the single currency, there would be a downward shock, you

can call it a blip, we can discuss how long or big it is but we would

go down a bit. It is telling you used the word

single currency, we didn't join the single currency, people prophesied

doom if we did. The British economy powered on.

I meant single market. That goes to the heart of the current

protestations of gloom. They were wrong then and now. The

authorities I am inclined to listen to are the head of the remain

campaign, Lord rose of Marks Spencer who went before the Treasury

Select Committee and who was very clear.

He said there would be no shock. What would happen, there was one

economic prediction, he said that wages for the low-paid would go up.

That for my money is a good idea. If you look at our country, and I

don't think people are aware of the differential is opening up between

the pay of the FTSE 100 chiefs who are parading through Downing Street

and urging us all to remain in the EU, and the average pay of people.

I think he was right. The second authority is the Prime Minister who

was in this chair. But you don't trust him.

You say he is untrustworthy. You say he is dodgy Dave, and trustworthy.

You are putting words into my mouth. What he said to you then, that a lot

of people were scaremongering, there was all sorts of thought how Britain

could manage on its own, but Britain could prosper outside the EU. And

there would be no difficulty doing free trade deals. One of the things

we are seeing today is actually you would be able to do free trade deals

according to the European Commission statistics, not fantasy, free trade

deals generating 300,000 jobs. Let me show you this.

One of your campaigns, you can't trust David Cameron on immigration.

On Turkey. The first time I have seen that.

Do you disavow it? The first time I have seen it. How

do you feel about it? I would put it in my own language,

my own language would be that, by the way I backed David Cameron in

2005 as the best man for the job as he is now.

What is true is if you tell people you can cut immigration to the tens

of thousands, and we all stand on that manifesto.

Corrosive public trust was your phrase. Exactly what I am going to

say. If you are unable legally to deliver what you have pledged

because of our membership of the EU, I would be frustrated. People want

an answer. What we want to hear, we are all convicted of the same crime

by that token because all Conservatives stood on that

manifesto. We all thought we were going to get reform of the EU, as a

result of the renegotiation, to adjust our immigration policies so

that we would be able to cope with that.

We didn't get a sausage, we didn't get anything in that renegotiation,

we weren't able to do change it. So, what I really want to hear from

the remain campaign is how they see this thing going.

Contrary to what we have been hearing just now, the eurozone is

still mired in catastrophic, 51% youth unemployment in Rees, 45%

youth and implement in Spain. It is an abomination.

Eventually, it will get out of that and the migratory pressure on our

shores will ease. We have seen no sign over the last

ten years, 20 years. We have seen a steady increase in migratory

pressure. What will happen unquestionably, it

is conceptually, you remember this from when we first covered this. The

ideology of the EU is to think of the difference between the furthest

reaches of the Balkans, Iberia Italy, as being no different from

Britain, than say sorry and Lancashire. It is all one territory

throughout which they want people to circulate totally freely. I don't

think that is feasible in circumstances where you have got

real economic crisis caused by the euros and across Europe.

Fearing towards the big picture, isn't it abominable to compare what

the EU as it is today, with Hitler, don't you regret that?

Strong nation states, we were drawn in again. The EU was set up to stop

that. We have lived through a period of peace which the EU had to be

given credit for. I don't write headlines. The key

point I would make is there is something worryingly anti democratic

about the EU as it is set up. I do think that it should concern

everyone in this country that 60% of our laws come from Brussels, primary

and secondary legislation, together. It should concern everybody that,

since the Lisbon Treaty, we have been outvoted more and more often.

There are fundamental ways now in which we cannot control our lives. I

mentioned the money, immigration policy, VAT.

Can I show you this poster. Turkey is joining the EU, is that true?

That is the governments policy. The Government would like it too at some

point in the future. This is a statement, is that true?

Turkey has been joining the EU since 1963.

But it is not true, that is what John Major was talking about.

I don't mind whether Turkey joins the EU provided the UK leads the EU.

That is where I am on this matter. I am very pro-Turk. I am very proud

of my Turkish ancestry. You always wanted Turkey to join the

EU for historical reasons, and that great gap between Eastern and

Western Roman empires. That was back in the days when some

of us, perhaps John Major himself, thought that widening the EU would

not mean this federalising, centralising, deepening process we

have seen. The really disappointing thing was

the Lisbon Treaty... Let us not talk about this, I want

to talk about Turkey. I think the EU has changed out of

all recognition since people like me started advocating...

Let us not talk about back in the day.

Two months ago you said there was no prospect of Turkey joining the EU,

you said it was between zero and 20% or less than that. No prospect. Now

your response to this poster is that Turkey is joining the EU.

That is the Government policy. It is something they have said is their

number one priority and paved the way between Brussels and Ankara,

they are also think it might be achieved until the year 3000. They

can't be... It is hogwash.

I believe it is Government policy. If that means it is hogwash. If the

poster said it is gone a pussy that Turkey at some stage should join the

EU, that would be true. Turkey is joining the EU is not true.

It is Government policy that Turkish membership should be accelerated.

I am signed, it is Government policy that Turkish membership of the EU

should be speeded up. There are clips of the Prime

Minister in Ankara advocating the speeding up of this.

In the heat of the campaign, you particularly have gone a bit wild,

that is not true, that poster, 350 million, which is not the case. Both

sides are doing this, post-truth politics...

I wondered if you would say that. ?350 million is genuine a reasonable

figure for reasons I have explained. If I give you ?350 and you spent...

This is money we can't control. A lot of it, you spend some of my

money on I been bull-fighting which is not what I want.

From the outside, the Conservative Party is falling apart. You are

saying the Prime Minister is untrustworthy.

Can this party he put together again, how do respond to John

Major's suggestion you were doing this for personal ambition. Used to

be in favour of joining the EU, now you have decided this is the best

way to Downing Street? Nonsense. There will be temptation

by one side or the other, particularly the remain camp, to

turn it into a personality driven connotation.

My view on the EU has changed because the EU has changed out of

all recognition. It is now totally different from

what we signed up to in 1972. It is turning into a federation.

Thank you very much. We have run out of time.

Join us live from Brunel University where we are debating why white

working-class boys are at the bottom of the heap. Foreign aid, should the

UK commitment to giving 0.7% of our national income be scrapped? That's

at 10am on BBC One. That's all we have time for,

thanks to all my guests. Andrew Neil will be talking Europe

with Labour's John Prescott I'll be back at the

usual time next week. My guest then will include Ukip

leader Nigel Farage. Until then, have a very

good morning, goodbye!