24/07/2016 The Andrew Marr Show

After the most extraordinary month in living political memory,

the Commons, exhausted, has now limped off

But from a new government desperate to reassure Brexit voters

that it won't betray them, through to the Labour leadership

In the battle of ideas, it's going to be a long, hot summer.

In our last show of the season, we cover all the political bases

with John McDonnell, the Shadow Chancellor,

Patrick McLoughlin - the man who has to keep

Tory members and Tory ministers marching in step.

And Paddy Ashdown - marching at the head

Here to review the papers, The Independent's Amol Rajan,

the Labour MP Alison McGovern, and Isabel Hardman,

And - move over James Bond - Hollywood's Matt Damon,

with the Bourne franchise, is muscling in -

It should be highly entertaining. It is supposed to entertain.

And we have a suite of cellists: no fewer than 11 of them are here

to play us out with some lively Brahms.

All that's coming up, but first the news, with Tina Daheley.

Hundreds of people have been forced to spend the night in their cars,

trapped in huge tailbacks outside the port of Dover.

Extra staff have been drafted in, to help ease the backlog -

caused by heightened security checks, by the French authorities.

This morning, people are being warned to expect delays

The big getaway that became the big standstill.

Queues heading to Dover, stretching back more than 12 miles

at one point, people stuck in cars for up to 14 hours.

There is a family behind us, they were all asleep in the car.

The guy opposite got out and stretched his legs,

he's gone back in and put his head down.

In hot temperatures, some found that food, water

The motorway is full, people are waiting in the sunshine,

no water, no toilets, it is horrible for them!

Where are the police controlling the traffic?

I'd like to see some traffic control.

The worst affected roads were the M20 and A20 eastbound.

Traffic was also backing up along the A2.

The advice from Kent police was to use smaller local roads.

It is said to be the result of extra security checks at Dover

after the recent terror attack in Nice.

Port officials also said there were not enough border control staff.

The UK Home Office is sending its own staff to help.

Ferry officers say that people who miss their crossing

Police are warning that the disruption is likely to last

A former Shadow Cabinet minister has accused staff working

for the Labour leader Jeremy Corbyn and the Shadow Chancellor,

John McDonnell of entering her House of Commons office

Seema Malhotra, who resigned as Shadow Chief Secretary

to the Treasury, has written to the Speaker John Bercow claiming

Labour say the allegations are untrue - and a member

of Mr Corbyn's staff had gone to the office to check

Police in Germany say the teenage gunman who shot dead nine people

in Munich on Friday had researched mass killings.

27 people were injured during the attack

The gunman - named locally as David Ali Sonboly,

Police say they're investigating whether he may have used

social media to lure his victims to the mall.

A group of MPs has urged the government to make an immediate

decision on airport expansion in the Southeast of England.

The British Infrastructure Group says UK industry

The Department for Transport said it was important to consider

all the evidence in order to make the right decision.

Prosecutors will get new guidance on hate crime and be encouraged

to press courts for tougher sentences, after a surge

in reported incidents in the wake of the EU referendum.

The Home Office says a new ?2.4 million fund will also

be established to improve security at synagogues, mosques, churches

The steps will be outlined in the Government's new hate crime

action plan, which will be published next week.

If you want to get on the front page of papers, kill somebody. That is

the message today. The guy who killed in Munich is everywhere. Lots

of analysis. It does not seem to be politically motivated.

Another story in the Mail on Sunday. This is about Jeremy Corbyn and

socialist T-shirts which were produced by workers getting just 30p

an hour, after they had raised that story as something to campaign

about. And therefore a charge of hypocrisy. Amol Rajan from the

Independent, we cannot show it as a paper paper any more, you have it on

your iPad. The story was this loan 18-year-old German Iranian who

killed people in Munich. The stories have the same trajectory. We have

the drama of life events, the manhunt, then the national morning

and then Day three you always get the psychology, what was going on in

the mind of the killer. Our journalist in Munich has found he

was a very modern killer. He was obsessed with the Norwegian neo-Nazi

and the attack was held on the fifth anniversary. He had used his profile

picture and sent out a message saying come to this McDonald's on

there will be free food. He was a very modern killer. It puts me in

mind of the novel we need to talk about Kevin which is about a mad

teenager. I do not think this was a political act. Even Angela Merkel

said it was Islamist in nature but it does not look like it was. I

think this is a depressed, troubled, loan teenager. He has used the

Internet to research this and unfortunately he had access to guns.

Isabel, you have the timeline. There will be a lot of people thinking

what is going on in Europe, taking us from January 2015 in Paris

through to these recent events. It does feel like an incredibly

dangerous time and lots of people will be worrying, and also

absolutely feeling for those affected. It seems like we are all

vulnerable. Nowhere is safe? Yes, and the knock-on effect on the news

with the extra checks causing tailbacks on the Port of Dover and

the consequences of this are huge. Not least, we have also seen in

Kabul last night. We don't hear much about Kabul but that is partly

because it happened right in the middle of the night. If you look at

the BBC's own coverage online, they have tried to explain what has

happened overnight. We should tell people. 80 people have been killed.

And 230 injured. Events around the world are terribly serious. We in

the West should remember we have got out of Afghanistan, it is over, but

it is not over for Afghanis. Not at all. People have taken part in a

democratic process and paid a terrible price for that. Isabel, I

think you wherein Nice and you have chosen a story about that, but you

missed it. Yes, narrowly. It was horrible going to the promenade and

seeing the memorials. This is a piece in the Telegraph. It said

although German politicians will point out it was a lone wolf attack,

it still has huge political implications for Angela Merkel

because it feeds into a narrative that she has made a mistake with

Germany's immigration and asylum policy. Letting in a million people?

Yes, it is not just the wrath of the German public, but her standing in

Europe. In terms of negotiations with the British and may be standing

with Theresa May during the Brexit negotiations,

there is a whole knock-on effect. He was born in Germany, he said, I was

born in Germany, but Angela Merkel is under pressure, especially from

the right wing party in Germany. This links to the narrative about

her asylum policy. You mentioned Brexit. There are two interesting

stories, one is from the Observer. There is a great story about how

Theresa May has been on the phone to the French president over the last

week and Mr Hollande has said, this whole Brexit then, shall we row back

on its slightly? We can offer some concessions. The line in the

Observer is the EU is offering an emergency brake on all immigration

which will go further than what David Cameron in his famous

renegotiation would achieve. This is what Cameron wanted, but to stay in

a single market. The deal that Theresa May has been offered, would

that have been enough to swing the referendum result? This is exactly

what Boris Johnson said would happen. If we vote to leave, they

would come back with a better deal. Have they done that? It is still

speculation, it has not been formalised. The other story is in

the Sunday Times. 20 or 25 MPs met for breakfast in Parliament. You

know that when they meet for breakfast something is really a

foot! They met for breakfast and there is a useful picture of Iain

Duncan Smith who's clearly among the 25 where they have said, Brexit

really does mean Brexit. No one knows what this means. They are

demanding that Theresa May is hard line. They want her to pull out of

the single market and they want total control of immigration. They

will almost be like a paramilitary group forcing her to be hardline. On

the one hand, Theresa May is being tempted by attractive standard

offers from the EU which will be attractive for rich business but on

the other hand, she has potential insurrection on the Tory benches. 25

is bigger than her majority. She may have changed the front bench but she

has not changed the political balance in Parliament. She has

managed to annoy more people than she has in her majority. There are

definitely more than 12 angry Tory MPs stalking the corridors. There

were some MPs who were very angry that they had not been promoted.

This is not on the football terraces? This is on the lovely

House of Commons terrace. They threw back their passes on Monday night

because they were very cross. They had not been given jobs. Anyone

would think the country was fine! They are now going back to their

constituencies and they have the whole of the summer to stew. This

means that will be quite a febrile month in the Conservative Party.

Theresa May has had a lovely start as Conservative leader. She had a

wonderful Prime Minister's Questions but it will get harder in September.

Allison, there are a lot of warnings about economic catastrophe. It is

hard to know what is going on after Brexit? That is right. The Observer

has got another story about which of the Brexit kind of horror

predictions have come true. Essentially, we might not know until

the autumn, but I think it is really interesting how there is Tory party

turmoil on the one hand, but actually, the reality of economic

turmoil is therefore people as the pound has kind of gone through the

floor. Early indications were not too bad. We need a lower pound in

many ways for exporters and a downturn in property prices is good

news and there were not signs of massive numbers of companies pushing

off to France. The market has responded to what is in essence a

political crisis, and what is really interesting is that demonstration of

how that is happening, but also, the recent takeover of a RM by this

Japanese giant, will that happen more often? -- ARM. That is in

contrast with Theresa May's offer saying I will be the one to

rebalance the economy, I will be the one to develop the economy for

ordinary people. We do not know what this resetting of the economy by

Philip Hammond means. It is a great phrase. He has been in China doing

goodness knows what, while at home people are rightly worried. Let's

move on to the Labour Party. There must be acres of coverage of what is

going on with Jeremy Corbyn. All of the papers have covered this at

great length but you can sum it up in one line which is Corbyn will

win. Owen Smith is this Welsh moderate challenger. He has

triggered this contest. Angela Eagle has said we could not have a unity

candidate and then splits it in two so Angela Eagle pulled out. The

polls show Jeremy Corbyn at 57%. Just before Alison comes in on it,

there are two things. One is the practicalities of who will win and

what is going on in labour. There is a deeper philosophical point which

is identity and Jeremy Corbyn believes in Parliament. One of his

heroes is Ralph Miliband and his first book was called Parliamentary

Socialism written in 1961. Appointed Parliamentary Socialism is an

oxymoron. That is the reason why Corbyn is having so many

difficulties with his parliamentary party. Let's move onto another

story, this one about Sime Malhotra who was very close to John McDonnell

and Jeremy Corbyn and she has now resigned -- seamer Malhotra she

believes her office was broken into. For many people that is not a big

thing, why is it a big thing, Alison?

photos are security is tight, there is sensitivity about what happens

there. People who work in open plan offices wouldn't understand MPs have

relatively small offices. And it is your haven. We have people's data,

we are security conscience. I don't think if this was a serious issue,

Seema would have done what she has done. I think we are at risk of

losing the fact that whilst Angela has definitely done the right thing,

I win would be a great candidate and I would pack away the crystal ball

because this is hard to call, -- Owen, I think there are lots of

women who are very sad that we have done all mail ballot paper. Women

like Seema, I do think we need not to lose sight of our mission for

equality. What has the Conservative Party ever done for women, it keeps

making them Prime Minister! That is Patrick McLoughlin who will be

talking to us later on. It is an interesting interview, he tries to

define Mayism, and is quite vague. He ends up talking about the chief

adviser, the brains behind her on the vision behind her, and it will

be interesting to see how much of Nick Timothy's vision makes it into

practice. We have certainly seen his influence on her reshuffle. We need

to see him on the sofa and asking most questions directly. The weather

has been scorching hot here but we know nothing. Yes, here's hoping

Mayism isn't just mayhem. We think it is warm here, but in the weight

it has been 54 degrees. -- in Kuwait. I can't imagine how people

cope in such heat, it is unimaginable. You lead us perfectly

into the next item which is the weather. I beg your pardon, it is

Paddy Ashdown! As we were saying in the paper review, you have launched

a new political movement. First of all, it is called... More United

.uk. It springs out of the speech Jo Cox made. There is a group of us of

17, across all societies, who believe there are hundreds of

thousands, potentially millions of people out there, who hates seeing

our country dragged to the extremes, who believe in what I would call the

values of a civilised country, I will come to that in a minute, and

who want the means to express their views. We give them that today and

what's more we give them the opportunity to change British

politics away from politics funded by big money which tracks the

political parties to the extremes to being funded by lots of small money

which holds it in the centre. All right so it is pro-European, I would

imagine. Let me list the principles, and if you agree with this, go to

More United .uk and sign up. If it becomes a political movement, we

asked people to contribute money, we invest that in candidates who

support the pencil -- the principles. And I'm mentally

responsible policies, a reformed democracy giving power to the voter,

no more governments elected on less than 25% of the vote, an

internationalist country that values diversity, wants to be as close to

the European Union as possible, and if we get the opportunity to vote to

go back into the European Union. It sounds remarkably like the Liberal

Democrats. There are people here from all ranks of life. Simon

Schama, damn snow. You have a party that believes in these things, why

set up something new? I love the Liberal Democrats, I hope people

will subscribe to them, but there are millions of people who want to

make a difference without subscribing to a political party. If

we raise money from individuals, lots of small money, not big money,

and invest those of candidates from any political party - Tory, Lib

Dem... Though it herbivores momentum. It is giving people the

chance to experience activities of political parties and giving them a

chance all year round, and giving them a chance to use their

resources, financial and manpower, to support any candidate from any

party who supports these principles. Guzman live in a Parliamentary

democracy, in the end it is about getting people elected to Parliament

most people would say, and you support a candidate that believes in

it broadly speaking, so put money in. Money and manpower. I can see

the Liberal Democrats, the Green, and maybe a Tory who all support

your values. What do you do? Interview the candidates and decide

which one to support, very simple. This could mean your movement would

be campaigning against Liberal Democrat candidates in some

circumstances. It could easily mean that but what we are trying to do...

This is not about politicians, it is about ordinary people who want to

make a difference and don't necessarily want to do it political

party. Having the influence to be able to sport a certain set of

principles. Any candidate from any party who accepts and adheres to the

principles and will put them into practice. They will be assisted by

the movement and the money it generates and manpower. Have you

spoken to the other parties? Of course I have. There is damn snow,

Simon Schama... They are historians rather than politicians. We have

young youth worker, a whole raft of people who believe, as I do, that

there are millions out there who we have to reach you don't want to

change politics. We want to bring Britain back to moderate values,

believe in talking about the benefits of immigration, and we want

to give them influence in our politics. In a sense it is people on

the 16 million side of the Brexit vote who lost. No, we say quite

simply if Brexit is the answer, and it is the answer given by the

British people, then we want to be as close to Europe as possible, in

the case of Brexit, but if we get the opportunity to deal with that

question again we would be in favour of Britain rejoining. Is this partly

about Jeremy Corbyn winning the Labour leadership again? You're not

trying to create another SDP? This is not about political parties. I

hope the Liberal Democrats, who are growing very fast, continue to

prosper. This is about giving people a voice who want to make sure that

Britain remains a moderate, decent country and who don't want

necessarily to do that through the political parties. What Labour will

do is what Labour will do, but this movement gives voice to the

voiceless, who want to hold this country in the centre, and gives

them the financial and manpower ability, leverage, to make sure they

get their way with candidates elected from any party. Paddy

Ashdown, thank you for talking to us. Now to the weather at last.

For gentle fair-skinned Scots like myself,

I lie there at night unable to sleep, dreaming of a cool breeze,

Let's see - with Stav Danaos in the weather studio.

Things are set to turn cooler. Yesterday we saw top temperature of

29 Celsius in Northolt, it felt even hotter because of the humidity.

There will still be some warmth across the Southeast generally

speaking, it is a cloudy day across the UK today. This rain is becoming

more widespread and heavy in the north-west and England, and in

Scotland pretty atrocious driving conditions here. Again, East Anglia

and the south-east seeing hazy sunshine and warm, humid field to

things here, but for the northwest it will feel fresher. The rain

becomes confined to northern areas overnight, and further south it will

be drier. The fresher air will follow on behind this, pushing the

humid air on towards the continent so overnight it will be a

comfortable one for people sleeping. A little bit fresher for all into

next week with a mixture of sunshine and showers for much of the UK with

temperatures around average for the time of year. Good news, I'm off to

Scotland next week so I will get lots of nice, refreshing rain.

The new Prime Minister has a really hard balancing act ahead of her.

Much of British business is desperate for us to stay

inside the single market, which probably wouldn't mean

But on the other side, many Tory activists are deeply

worried that the new Government will betray the referendum result

Patrick McLoughlin, as party chairman, is the man in the middle.

Before we come onto Brexit, a European related story which is

these terrible tailbacks, some setting for 15 hours in boiling

weather in their cars with children, desperate for police or anyone else

to bring them water. This is a mess, why has happened? I think we can

understand why the French would want to increase security after what

happened in Nice last week. What is unacceptable is the way in which

people have been left in the lurch... At one point just one

person checking passport. One person checking coaches as I understand it,

and that's unacceptable. There have been discussions between our

government and the French government to try to ease the situation as much

as we possibly can, but one has to acknowledge that the horrendous

incident in Nice would have put the French authorities on much higher

alert. And you think it is all about that, no suggestion it is a

punishment for Brexit? I don't think so at all. To French and to's,

tourism is an important industry. The same part of the country, the

terrible disaster of southern rail. Again, all the summer people have

been unable to see their children at night when they are coming home,

unable to get to work on time, many trains have been cancelled, again it

is a terrible mess and it comes down to a contract that you signed with

them which means they don't have any hard financial penalties for not

delivering the service. We are seeing record investment in our

Railways, this is quite important because this is actually about an

industrial dispute. This is about whether the RMT will accept driver

only operated trains. Lots of trains already in Southern operate on

driver only trains. We are seeing record investment and an industrial

dispute. You're saying it is nothing to do with the company at all? Of

course the company has some responsibility but the main reason

for the problems is because of an industrial dispute. There will

always be times on the railways when sometimes the problems are with the

infrastructure. This seems to be management incompetence. Claire

Perry resigned partly because of that, don't you hold responsibility

for that contract you signed? They do lose money but the simple fact is

this is an industrial dispute. The RMT have been on strike but they

also have positions where sickness levels have risen immeasurably as

far as people not reporting in for work and one can only draw

conclusions that part of that is because of the dispute taking place.

What kind of comfort can you offer those people whose lives have been

ruined by this, family relationships have been damaged, and it goes on

and on? Obviously Chris Grayling will be looking at what measures he

can take as the Transport Secretary, but I want to see that investment, I

want to see those new trains. London Bridge, which is causing some of the

problems, undergoing a ?700 million refurbishment. That will lead to a

better service. Let's turn to Brexit. On the one hand you have a

lot of companies desperate to in some way keep in the single market.

Boris Johnson has suggested there will be some kind of compromise that

can be done. An interesting story in the Observer today suggested that

the French at least are saying, we can do a deal, we can give you less

immigration and you can stay in the single market. For a lot of your

supporters, that would be a betrayal of the Brexit vote.

Let us see. We four weeks on from when the referendum took place. I am

of the result that the referendum result is binding on Parliament. The

Prime Minister has made it clear that Brexit means Brexit. But what

does Brexit mean? It means we are coming out of the European Union. We

want to see our borders under our own control and we obviously want to

see the best we can for British investment. We have seen some inward

investment taking place after the Brexit vote. A lot of the millions

of people who voted for Brexit assumed it would mean an end to mass

migration, will it? I think there were several reasons why people

voted to leave the EU. I don't think you can say it is one particular

area. But it does mean we will have to have control of our borders, yes.

So you will bring immigration from the EU down considerably, absolutely

definitely and in short order? Guests. Use a short order, we will

have to wait and see when we leave the European Union. Once article 50

is served there is a maximum two-year process. It may be sooner

than that. That will be part of the negotiations. Will article 50

definitely be triggered before the election? Yes. So there will not be

an early general election to catch the Labour Party with its trousers

down? It is very difficult to have an early general election with the

fixed term parliament sacked. There are county council elections and

those are what I turning my attention to. It is very difficult

to call an early general election. At the core of your role is the

relationship between the party and the MPs. That has been a sense for

quite a long time now that the party in the country has been looked down

on and disregarded by the people at the top of the party and the old

Etonian is at the top of the party. Issues like gay marriage which David

Cameron keeps saying is his great legacy offended a lot of your

ordinary party members. Is that era now over? Do we see a different

relationship now? Governments always have to govern in the national

interest. We will seek Theresa May governing in the national interest.

Sometimes that will upset members of a political party. But first and

foremost you have to put the national interest first. I came up

through the Conservative Party. I owe my place around the Cabinet

table to joining the Young Conservatives, becoming a national

vice-chairman, a district councillor, a county council, we

have thousands of people right across the country had tremendous

effort into the Conservative Party. I want to thank them for the work

they do and I want to encourage more people to join the party. 150,000

new people more less, is tiny compared to the Labour Party. Do you

want a younger, more working class member than you have had before? We

have to see what will encourage people to join political parties. It

has been something that people have felt disbarred from and I want to

change that. If you join the Labour Party and you pay your ?25 or

whatever, you can have a say in not just who is the party leader but

party policy. If you join the Conservative Party, you do not get

that kind of say. Why would people want to join? We have to look at

what used to be called the CPC which was thread through policy. Is it

more democratic? I think the party is incredibly democratic. They do

not get a vote on policy. They would have got a vote in the leadership

that it was stitched up at Westminster! It was not stitched up,

it was decided at Westminster. When I look at the Labour Party, the idea

you can have the leader of the parliamentary party who has no

support on the backbenches is a new thing we are getting used to in

British politics. Thank you for talking to us.

Ever since his stunning debut in Good Will Hunting,

Matt Damon's been one of Hollywood's top stars.

Oscar-nominated last year for The Martian,

he's back on the big screen this summer.

The latest Jason Bourne thriller, an action film with some

real political nuggets, opens in cinemas on Wednesday.

When we met, Damon told me how director Paul Greengrass

has imbued Bourne with real contemporary relevance.

These movies work, I think, always if they feel like they're

kind of pulled from the headlines, and each one is about the time

The last one, the Bourne Ultimatum was very much about the war

on terror, you know, the set pieces that we did,

we did in New York and London and Madrid and that wasn't an accident.

Those were obviously the three cities at the time that had been

You don't say it explicitly but you kind of want

it thematically kind of all in the stew.

So, you know, we've got an austerity ride in Greece,

where we have a big action set piece.

So, you've got an action movie with a bit of a conscience.

It's not that we're not finger wagging at anybody, I don't think,

it's just that it should feel like it's of this world

that we are all living in, but it should be highly entertaining.

I mean that's its first order of business, it's

People are safer because of what you did.

You've said that the three first films were kind of about the Bush

In this film, Tommy Lee Jones, the CIA guy, is kind of a hangover

To what extent does this film reflect the change in American

politics and society since the first ones?

Well, it's got, you know, we've got Tommy Lee and Jason Bourne

to a certain extent, they're kind of dinosaurs.

Then we have Alicia Vikander playing this new, young,

you know, she represents this new arena of cyber warfare that came

later that these guys don't know as much about.

Hopefully that's the fusion of new that we need.

I guess the tough bit of this is that you have said,

and a lot of people would agree with you, that America really has

to rethink guns at the moment, particularly after what's gone on,

and then they would say, hold on the second, this film

So, is there an element of hypocrisy in that,

First of all, what I said is we can't have a sensible

conversation about it, which is true, because it's

Even the idea of not allowing people on the watchlist...

You know, we have to try to figure out a way to try to keep guns out

of the hands of people like Adam Lanza, right,

this guy in Sandy Hook, without infringing on people's

Sandy Hook was horrific, and if that didn't do it,

It is 20 years since Good Will Hunting now,

and I read that at that moment you took a really bold personal

decision to take yourself out of university,

take yourself out of college, and go into acting.

That's a heck of a jump to do at the time.

I didn't drop out of college, I took an extended leave of absence,

But I had a job so I got a movie that was going to be a huge smash

hit called Geronimo: An American Legend,

Obviously that was a huge bomb but it was a great experience.

Ben also got a TV show at that time so that helped

pay our rent and we were working on the screenplay.

So we had money in the pocket, we were, you know, we weren't living

You know, we were getting our work done.

And of course that was a film partly about science and so forth.

My favourite Matt Damon film, I have to say, is The Martian,

But what's interesting about that is it's a different kind

of hero because I guess to my kids' generation,

the real heroes are not the guys running around with the guns,

they're the scientists, they're the geeks.

That movie says I'm going to science the hell out of this.

It makes it a different kind of hero.

Just tell me a little bit about working on that film.

I mean, I'm ashamed to say how easy it was because of Ridley.

We sat down in pre-production with the script and he walked me

through every page, told me exactly what he was going to do.

And over the next couple of months, that's exactly what he did.

Six o'clock, the whistle blew, everyone went home,

I mean it was like, it was just like working at a bank or something.

It was like a routine that was incredible.

And this is a man who's not in the first flush of youth.

He is a young man at heart, I mean his soul is...

He's got so much energy and passion for what he does.

It's funny, it's like Clint, when I worked with Clint Eastwood.

In his late 70s at the time as well, and the same thing, just charging

out of bed in the morning, like ready to go and more energy

You meet these guys who are just legends, they are masters

at what they do, and it's that incredible combination of virtuosity

You know, 40, 50 years of experience and still a passion for doing it,

and it's just electric to be around, it's wonderful.

Matt Damon, thanks very much for talking to us.

Well, the Tories may have called off their leadership election

but Labour's is now under way, and over the summer,

Jeremy Corbyn will be going head-to-head with his challenger,

Owen Smith, at hustings up and down the country.

Today I'm joined by Mr Corbyn's key ally,

the Shadow Chancellor, John McDonnell.

Looking at the polls, it seems overwhelmingly likely that Jeremy

Corbyn will win. How do you rebuild relationships which have been badly

damaged in the party? I do not trust any poll at all. This is not a

foregone conclusion. We will have a proper democratic debate. It will be

a political debate, not based on personalities. We will come to a

democratic decision. I believe our members will expect the

Parliamentary Labour Party, those in the parliament Labour Party are good

people. They came into politics to try and change the world. During the

leadership process, from the Shadow Cabinet, and we have also proposed,

and this is one of Andy Burnham's proposals which we agree on, we

should do some mediated negotiations between the parliamentary party and

the NEC. We use the leadership discussion to discuss issues but

also to heal some wounds. Do you think Tremor Corbyn has made some

mistakes and after this process you will have to do things differently

-- do you think you and Jeremy Corbyn have made some mistakes? We

have made some mistakes. We will say, tell us where we have gone

wrong, where do you think collectively we could be better? On

that basis, I think we could go forward. The vast bulk of the Labour

Party just want to get on with the job. This country is facing real

challenges now. Day after day there are terrible stories of inside the

Labour Party. A former close colleague of yours, Seema Malhotra,

has had her office broken into she feels by either a member of your

staff or Jeremy Corbyn's staff, what is going on? Seema is a friend. I

asked Jeremy to appoint her. I find this really distressing. Seema

resigned unfortunately a month ago. A month later, we thought she had

moved out of her office. My office manager who manages the whole

Treasury team offices and staffing and has a key to all our rooms, went

along, saw boxes outside of her office, thought she had moved,

knocked on the door, never heard anything and went in. Then went back

the next morning and did the same thing. Members of Seema's staff were

there, she apologised and that was it. Let me

just finished this, I have now got a member of staff, and I will describe

her to you. She is a widower with daughters. This is her sole income.

This is the woman who went in? Yes. She is now worried she will lose her

job and face prosecution because it has been scribed as a break-in. I

did not even know from Seema. I got a copy of an e-mail late on Friday

night. Then my office contacted her and said this is obviously an error.

We thought she had moved out. The boxes were outside. She said her

staff felt upset, distressed, harassed, insecure. Her staff

invited my office manager out for a meal and drinks this week. One of

them, and in turn, brought her parents to meet her. So what is

going on? I don't know. Given that has been distress on besides, do you

think you should apologise to Seema Malhotra? My office manager already

apologised. She apologised to the staff. We have got to stop this. Am

I on this camera? Let me just say to Labour Party supporters, Labour

members, members of the Parliamentary Labour Party, we have

got to stop this now. There is a small group out there who are

willing to destroy our party, just to remove Jeremy Corbyn. We have got

to stop them. We have got to unite. If you want to come for me and

Jeremy Corbyn, that is up to you, but don't pick on staff who cannot

defend themselves. Save Labour were talking about splitting the party. I

want to stop this now. Can I join in on this? I'm sorry, this is so

serious. You are suggesting this is all the other side. 44 female MPs

have written saying they have been treated badly. This is a very

serious thing and it cannot all be their fault.

What we are saying is, if there is intimidation, we have got to stop

it. Jeremy Corbyn has denounced any form of abuse, brought in procedures

to tackle that. Anyone perpetrating abuse should be kicked out of the

party. A very important policy was announced by Jeremy Corbyn this

week, about Pfizer and other pharmaceutical companies, and he

said that no longer should drug research be farmed out to them, it

should be done by the medical research Council in the NHS. Can you

explain more about how this will work? It was arguing that research

in this country should be better managed and more effective, so when

it came to pharmaceutical research it should be better managed and

better supported, in fact we should be increasing our resources. I have

been running an exercise in looking at tax reliefs, in fact Seema was

involved in it. We are following advice saying these tax relief at

not being used effectively and should be used more effectively to

increase levels of research, and that will be done within the NHS and

by pharmaceutical companies. He said, medical research shouldn't be

farmed out to big pharmaceutical companies like Pfizer and others but

should be funded through the medical research Council as a way of

developing these drugs. I put it to you, that is an impossible thing to

do financially. You interpret it as money being taken away from the

companies but it is not. It is money that is better used. The medical

research Council have a budget of less than ?1 billion, it brings more

than that to bring one dropped market. He wants to look at how that

money is managed, and that will mean private companies... So he misspoke?

No, he has been misinterpreted. We are looking at every aspect of

research not just in pharmaceuticals but right across the piece. We

discover even the Treasury does not assess half of the reliefs

effectively so we want to manage that money better to get more

scientific research. Tax relief is a big issue but in terms of the

pharmaceutical industry it is about ?200 million that goes in, nothing

like enough to fund the medical research Council to do their job

properly. Of course, and you want to increase that and make it more

effective but it has to be managed better and that is a way in which

you ensure the resource goes into development effectively. You have

said in the past you would like to take these companies into public

ownership, and I have a quote, you were talking to the Alliance for

workers Liberty, and you said let's look at certain sectors, see whether

we should be pursuing a policy of public ownership. Management by

directly elected representatives of local communities. I would use the

example of the pharmaceutical industry, you said. I have always

argued I would like to see a public stake in the pharmaceutical

industry, in that way we could bring down the price of drugs. In terms of

worker control and involvement, I'm pleased may-macro has come out in

favour of putting workers on the boards -- Theresa May. In the end

there are two kinds of socialism, the Parliamentary Road which

basically says capitalism is a fantastically powerful and energetic

thing, we milked it for taxes but we support it, then there is the other

system which says capitalism in the end is evil and we have to overthrow

it and replace it by a socialist economy. I put it to you that you

are in second category. If you look at the history of the Labour Party,

it is about having an economy which is in the interests of everyone.

That is a combination of some services provided by the public

sector and some provided by the private sector. You have to get the

right mix so that it is democratically controlled. In the

same interview you said your main political influences were Marx,

Lenin and Trotsky. What have you learned from Lenin and Trotsky? I

have learned what a mistake in bureaucracy can do and how you have

to control bureaucracy democratically, and that the

analysis and the failures of some of those systems. You look at the

history of socialism in this country, it draws upon a vast range

of philosophers and idiotic and I'm in the mainstream of that. You are

well on the left, the quasi Trotskyists. If you look at where I

came from, even Harold Wilson... Aptly was not a trot. You said you

regard the Labour Party as a vehicle to leave when it is no longer

useful, isn't that why people say you are part of the famous entry at

strategy. I have never said that. Someone asked if it was a religion,

I said no, it was a vehicle will use to achieve socialism. In March, you

said, I'm not in the Labour Party because I'm a believer in the Labour

Party has some supreme body or something God-given or anything like

that, it's a tactic, simple as that. If it's no longer useful move on. I

was trying to argue... So that is a fair point? I was arguing that the

Labour Party is it now stands, if we need to reform it we should, and

basically my argument is we rebuilt the Labour Party as a social

movement and that's what we are doing. Half a million members

campaigning. In that way you transform society. But because you

say, if it is no longer useful vehicle move on, that's why Angela

Smith says it is quite clear from the comments he is following broadly

Trotskyist agenda which is incompatible... Organisations like

Alliance for liberty, which I know well, I sold the newspaper a long

time ago. I have just spoken to the chrysalis socialist movement, I

appear on platforms and argue the case. But they are Trotskyist

organisation and they are telling their members to flood into the

Labour Party, so are many other far left groups. And any of them will be

vetted. Do you welcome them? If we can convert people to the Labour

Party, so much the better, but if they are coming with an entry is

tactic, we have a voting system which is extremely strict and it is

operating now. Assuming you win, you will be left innocent in the same

position where you have a leader supported by hundreds of thousands

of ordinary party members because of his values and what he stands for

and a large number of MPs who completely disagree with him and

don't trust him and don't want to serve under him, and you have to

reconcile that. If you were one of the people who went to Jeremy Corbyn

valleys and really want to change society and believe you are the

people to do it, don't you have to do something about MPs? Why should

they have MPs in their constituencies who don't support

what Jeremy Corbyn stands for? The vast bulk of the Parliamentary

Labour Party just want to get on-the-job -- on with the job. They

will respect the mandate, whoever is leader, and I will as well. People

will work together. Why? Because we are faced with severe problems in

our society created by the Tory government. We will oppose them and

win the next election. That is the responsibility that every member of

the party bears. Your critics think you cannot win that election. If

they are proved right, will both of you resign? That would be

inevitable, wouldn't it? Let's look at our electoral practice so far.

Won every by-election, increased our majority, all of the electoral

practice so far we have been successful on, that's why I cannot

understand some of the criticisms levelled against Jeremy.

Now over to Tina for the news headlines.

The Cabinet minister Patrick McLoughlin has told this

programme it was 'absolutely unacceptable' that holiday-makers

had been 'left in the lurch', waiting in tailbacks several miles

Hundreds of people were forced to spend the night in their cars,

because of a backlog caused by heightened security checks

This morning, people are being told to expect delays

The Shadow Chancellor has appealed directly of members of the Labour

Party to end their feuding. He said, we have got to stop this now. He was

speaking after Seema Malhotra complained her House of Commons

office had been entered by a member of John McDonnell's staff without

permission. John McDonnell said there had been a mistake, and he

thought the office had been vacated. Back to Andrew in a moment,

but first a brief look at what's coming up on BBC One

after this programme. On Sunday Morning Live: As Russia

faces a complete ban for all its competitors

in the Olympics, we ask - is cheating now an unavoidable part

of the greatest sporting The Government has delayed

its obesity strategy. Whose responsibility is it to stop

expanding waistlines - And Michelle Williams,

formerly of Destiny's Child, tells us why she wants to help

President Obama when he leaves We're almost out of time for today

and for this season. We'll be back on Sunday,

4th September. Here to play us out,

11 top notch cellists who'll be performing tomorrow

at London's Cadogan Hall, I think we've found four

incredible cooks. But now it's finals week,

we turn up the heat.