23/10/2016 The Andrew Marr Show

So, how are we going to make a success of Brexit?

Well, according to one Cabinet minister this morning, we have

to start by building new airports for, in the Transport Secretary's

words, "a stronger, more confident, more ambitious Britain".

Nice thought, but has he actually taken a decision yet?

Chris Grayling is here to talk about Heathrow, Gatwick,

the crisis-stricken high speed railway, and,

of course, whether we're making on progress on leaving the EU.

But will the Commons block Brexit in its tracks?

Labour's Hilary Benn, now chairing the key

That would infuriate Ukip, a party searching for a new leader.

Does she want to be Britain's new Nigel Farage?

I've also been speaking to the great Kenneth Branagh about

playing the Entertainer, in John Osborne's modern classic

When it comes to our paper review, I feel I'm in safe hands this

morning, with Amanda Platell from the Daily Mail and David

And here to play us out, the American folk singer and head

of a musical dynasty, Loudon Wainwright III.

# One-man guy, I'm a one-man guy # And that man is me

#. And he is a legend, as well. All that after the news read this

morning by Tina Daheley. French officials are making final

preparations before they demolish the migrant camp in Calais known

as the Jungle. 10,000 leaflets will be handed out,

telling migrants they must start leaving tomorrow,

when clearance work is due to begin. The migrants will be taken by bus

to other parts of France. But charities working at the site

have warned that many will refuse to go, because they still

want to reach the UK. The doctors' union,

the British Medical Association, says a 24-hour telephone hotline

needs to be set up to help people The BMA says that thousands

of people have been prescribed powerful drugs such

as benzodiazepines for decades, although guidelines say the maximum

should be four weeks. The organisation also wants clearer

guidance for GPs on how The Prime Minister will host

the leaders of Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland tomorrow,

to discuss Britain's Theresa May has called for a "grown

up" relationship with the devolved administrations, while the Scottish

government says it must be treated as an "equal partner"

in negotiations with the EU. Turkey is demanding a role

in the fight to drive so-called Islamic State militants

from the Iraqi city of Mosul. But Iraq's Prime Minister has told

the United States his country won't allow Turkey to have any role

in the battle. On the ground, Iraq's

military says it's stormed the town of Qarakosh,

about 20 kilometres Researchers looking into the decline

of hedgehogs say they still don't It's thought there were more

than 36 million hedgehogs in the UK in the 1950s,

compared to fewer The Mammal Society is asking people

to take part in an online survey Not quite a picture of a hedgehog,

but the next best thing, Boris Johnson as some kind of sea

creature, emerging from the top of the Sunday Times. Most papers are

leading with overseas stories including the great siege of Mosul.

Sunday Telegraph going for the story about the migrants at Calais and the

debates about whether children were really children and should their

teeth rechecked. During the Britain, that is the headline. The Mail on

Sunday has a story about the Tory Chief Whip smearing someone,

although it doesn't tell you who. The Observer, leading banks are set

to pull out of Brexit UK early next year. However, that is a lobbyist

for banks who is creating that story. Where are we going to start?

We are going to start with Amanda Platell and the front page of the

Sunday Telegraph. We have a picture of these queues of men, some of them

look like children, some don't, queueing up to get over to Britain.

Ministers ignored offers for help from social service 's does, it has

been a mess from start to finish. -- social services. They seem to have

left the whole thing right to the very last. If you are interested in

children, the allegation is that men are pushing themselves to the front

of the queue and pushing children behind. Exactly. The whole point

regarding the amendment which came in in April, they wanted

unaccompanied minors and they have identified 200 of the most

vulnerable in the jungle, and as of Thursday night not a single one was

say, none of the girls have come over. -- not a single one was here.

We were expecting children to be coming in with teddy bears, instead

we have too many strapping young men. The girls are coming. They did

come. You would imagine would be relatively easy, to send people into

the cab to identify the children. They were going around with

megaphones, saying, if there are any girls say, can you let us no. What

kind of system is that? I have chosen a column from Sarah Baxter in

the Sunday Times and she draws attention to something which is

interesting, it is so British to concentrate on whether you have a

few hairy men out of the first 13 that come rather than the issue of

what a clock up we have made. It is not just a question of selection,

some councils have said they have sent their own people into Calais.

Will they have places for them when they come back? They have not done

proper vetting of the family connections back in Britain, as they

would have done if those kids had actually been British in Britain and

they were talking about resettling them. You have to say, for the

criticism that there has been by very smug people over here about

Angela Merkel, the Germans have managed the business of taking in

800,000 to nearly a million people, and we can barely manage to get a

couple of thousand people in, let alone kids, without having a huge

argument about whether they have got to have dentistry checks because we

haven't even done the basic work. The Germans are light years ahead.

It is about the attitude. It makes fascinating reading. This is a

former silent judge, and he says we can't keep people out and we can't

send them home -- asylum judge. The Home Office have said there are

12,000 failed asylum seekers. Over two years. They have either

disappeared or have not been removed, and basically when you get

into the system, this is the narrative of the story, the older

men pretending to be children, people think this is an abuse of the

system. But when they are in, it is a free for all and they disappear.

Many of these people are coming here because of the war in Afghanistan

which we were a part of. They have been pushed out and they can't live

in that country because it is too dangerous for them. That is true,

but that argument doesn't resonate as much as having young girls and

young boys and children coming to the country. Why did they not want

to stay in France? Some do have family here and some speak English

and some think there's a better life. People look at mobile phones,

people send them pictures and they think that is better. There are

people who want to go to France and the majority action want to go to

Germany and Sweden. The camps are going to go question not many of

them have said they want to come here because it is easier to access

the benefits system, that is just a fact. The next Tory, David? I'm very

struck by this. -- story. This is in the Sunday Times. Louise Callaghan.

She tells the story of effectively being with an Iraqi unit that

becomes sandwiched between two different bits of Isis attack and

defence and when she is in the vehicle an mortar lands within 30

feet and I'm thinking, what must it have been like for her parents,

reading this story? Several journalists have or would he been

killed in the siege of Mosul. -- have already. Anthony Loyd in The

Times, yesterday, his gas mask was stolen on the way in. He was trying

to advise people around him about what he has to do -- what they have

to do when they are attacked by snipers. We have a lot of attacks on

journalists, but there are some very brave people out there. It is a

great story. What about this drawing? I love this cartoon, this

goes back to the immigration story. Wonderful picture. The debate is

over whether they should have dental checks to see their age, and we have

this funny old guy with dentures in a glass. I'm sure some of these guys

are overrated, but I was at school, with people who were 14 and they had

full beards and there were some who looked about 40 by the time they

were 14 -- are over age for the people reach puberty at a different

age. I take your point. We have a special award. We haven't mentioned

Brexit yet. We are a long way into the paper review, but we are going

to do so now. The front page of the Observer, a story which leaves out

of Anthony Brown, the chief executive of the British bankers

Association and they have made this into a prediction. They say are

essentially because of the uncertainty regarding passport in

rights come at the ability of financial institutions to trade in

Europe after Brexit as if they were European banks, that they might

relocate. We have a phoney war at the moment. It puts 1939 to 1940

absolutely to shame. No one has stopped campaigning in the papers

after the vote. Yes, because they don't know what is going to happen.

This is in the first few months of 2017, what is that going to be?

January to April? We will be able to test whether a story like this is

actually true, probably by April. I don't think there will be a single

one which will be true. His son says we can expect a ?20 billion bounce

on the back of Brexit -- The Sun. They believe it is a great thing,

they are campaigning, and they have also scare stories. In the Sunday

Telegraph is the story that Nissan is going to build their cash cow

cars in Sunderland which is a very big story if you are on the pro

Leave side. It is not on the front page, because they might not be

totally sure, and what has the government done regarding this,

Theresa May said to Nissan, everything is possible providing you

are prepared to pay for it, the question is how much. And where else

it comes from. Some deal might have been done question mark I haven't

read the story. Chris Grayling is coming on the show very shortly, he

has written in The Sun on Sunday about this very big decision,

Gatwick and Heathrow. There is only one thing people want to know, which

one, and why don't they get on with it. It will create many jobs and it

will be great for the country. I can't remember a time when we

weren't talking about this. The article could have been written in

the mid-70s, but we are looking forward to you getting the answer

out of Chris Grayling. He knows what he ready thinks and it is his job to

tell you and it is your job to get it out of him. I fear he will say it

is his job to tell Parliament. He will not give you a running

commentary. We have had by-elections, the Liberal Democrats

have done pretty well in David Cameron's constituency of Witney,

coming second, ahead of the Labour Party. The Liberal Democrats will

say they have had a string of local council by-election victories, and

they have gone down and they are now inching their way back and in 20

years they will get back to where they were. Witney is a seat in which

the Labour Party has gone from 500 members to 1200 members, but in the

by-election they had 5000 moats. -- 5000 votes. And so that is a ratio

from party members to votes which is one of the lowest you could achieve.

It must have some electoral effect, the fact he has so much membership.

It is having an effect, it is pushing the Labour vote down. The

time will come when... The word surely always almost means the

opposite, I tell my kids. No means no, the Poldark row.

Explain? He basically was in love with this woman. It is tonight. He

is Ross Poldark. He is in love with Elizabeth, the posh one. He ended up

marrying a common girl. He has always held a torch for her. She is

a widow. In short, BBC says it isn't rape. The Mail on Sunday has done

this fantastic spread and talked to fantastic rate experts. Hardly rate

experts! She doesn't look frightened. There is a quote that

says, her actions are not fitting with a woman frozen with fair -- my

fear. Many women do have such fantasies. A lot of women might

think, I wish my husband would take me like that. I have two daughters

in college and one in her mid-20s and the last thing I want is her dad

Mike Bent meeting young men inspired by the psychotherapist quoted here.

It looks like one of those completely borderline cases. We can

watch it tonight, if we are not watching Strictly Come Dancing

Dance-Off with Ed Balls. Thank you. Ukip is "ungovernable"

and in a "death spiral". So said the former leadership

contender Steven Woolfe who, after being thumped,

quit the party last week in disgust. My next guest, Suzanne Evans,

author of the party's manifesto, has not so far as we can tell,

hit anybody at all recently. Suzanne Evans, what can you do to

help Ukip recover? Well, I think I am the right person to lead Ukip

into the challenges ahead, to be able to beat the first past the post

system by broadening our appeal and getting MPs into Westminster. First

and foremost, I think I'm the right person to champion the cause of

those 17.4 million people who voted to leave the European Union and are

now seeing their democratic choice being undermined by the political

class. I absolutely want to be their champion. We have seen hundreds of

MPs trying to overthrow the verdict, activists and lawyers trying to

undermine the will of the people. I want to say to them, don't you dare.

I will be their breathing down their neck to make sure that we have that

type of war. They are trying to pull us back to Brussels and I am going

to make sure we pull us out of the EU exit door. You are a

controversial figure within Ukip. Aaron Banks and Nigel Farage have

said things about you. You have had to resign from the party, you were

suspended over disloyalty. You have had a war of words with other people

inside Ukip. Why should you be the unifier? I haven't had a war of

words. Nothing breeds unity faster than success. With me at the helm I

am absolutely confident we will be able to reach out to voters on the

left and the right of politics. My background is very much one of a

working-class Labour background. My great-grandfather stood for

Parliament for the Labour Party three times. I was a Tory

councillor. Now I sit right in the middle in Ukip. That is why I know

that the policies we have can appeal. Look at the election

manifesto we had in 2015. It was great. It took the best of politics.

It took the best from the left and right, and was an absolute winner.

The other parties could not it. This is where our future lies, going

forward is to be the common sense centre. Not the wishy-washy Lib Dem

Centre. A tough centre that controls borders, spends more on defence,

slashes energy bills... Issues that matter. When you said Ukip had to

stop being the rugby club on tour, what did you mean? Other people have

described it that way. After the general election I said that perhaps

there had been a bit too much testosterone in Ukip at times. That

is where I can help to pour oil on troubled waters. Nigel Farage, a

hugely successful leader of your party, who did his bit during the

referendum campaign, said you have been a hugely unpopular figure in

the party, that he constantly criticised the leadership and the

party. It is very easy to say things. I thought long and hard

about this leadership bid. One of the reasons I delayed announcing it

was because I wanted to make sure I had the support of members to stand.

I have more than enough signatures on the nomination form already to be

able to go forward. Let's not forget, 3000 people signed a

petition in support of me when I was suspended. I know head office was

besieged with letters of support. I would not be doing this as I did not

have the backing of members. They are the most important people in our

party. Not the leadership. The members. The ones who go out their

day in, day out, knocking on doors. But Nigel Farage is not going to

back you, is he? I don't know if he will or might not. That is actually

not important because we are going in a new direction. Aaron Banks, the

biggest funder of the party, is backing you. Can I ask you whether

you are worried that people like Aaron Banks and Nigel Farage are

taking Ukip in a slightly Donald Trump direction? It will be

interesting. In our leadership election, we will have had the

results of the American election. I am no fan of Trump, but I am no fan

of Hillary Clinton either. I suspect she will tip it. Our future as a

political party in Britain does not lie in that far right wing. I do not

see a ground of opinion in this country for more far-right policies.

I don't see a groundswell of opinion for the right to bear arms in

America. Do you think that Hassan will take the party in a far right

direction? Absolutely. I don't think there is any died. Our members do

not want that. We have taken a lot of stick in Ukip because we have

taken the party in a perhaps slightly toxic direction. People

have been verbally assaulted on the streets. They don't want to have a

fresh injection of toxicity that it is going to make it even more

difficult. Do they think and do you think that Rahim Hassan is toxic? I

don't share his beliefs. Members will ultimately make their decision.

In terms of where Ukip can go next, most people will say it is those 9

million Labour voters who voted for Brexit that are your prime target.

They may look at Jeremy Corbyn and Diane Abbott and think, that is not

our Labour party. In certain circumstances they could come over

to Ukip. You are a Shropshire County girl and you were a Conservative

candidate. You will not appeal to those people. They need a northern,

rough voice. You are a little bit Margot from the good life. Goodness

me! I went to a comprehensive school, I am a single mother. I get

on with people from all walks of life. I will be talking more about

that when I have my formal launch. You hit the nail on the head. We are

the patriarchal party. I am nothing if not patriotism proud of my

country. -- patriotically Jeremy Corbyn will not sing the

country. -- patriotically Jeremy British flag. We do have a very

strong role to play in taking votes of migrant labour but also from the

Tories. Somewhere like Heywood and Middleton... You have been a

complete mess as a party recently. You have lost your London

headquarters. Can you survive without Aaron Banks's money? I have

done my homework. I would not take over any organisation, let alone

Britain's third largest political party, unless I was sure that our

finances were solid. I have been assured that we are not doing nearly

as badly as the headlines suggest. And indeed Aaron Banks is by no

means our major donor. Ukip could survive perfectly well without him.

Thank you. The autumn colours are at last

spreading right across the country. And you will have noticed

an invigorating snap in the air. Andrew, your words seem to be

painting this picture, sent to us yesterday by one of our Weather

Watchers, showing the changing colours of the trees. Today we have

had a chilly start to the morning. The lower temperatures than

yesterday. A beautiful Sunrise. There will be a lot of dry weather

today. Like yesterday, there will be some passing showers, particularly

in the East of Scotland and eastern England. Those we have at the moment

should fade away pretty quickly. Cloud breaking up with some sunshine

coming through. It will perhaps be a little cooler than yesterday,

especially in the South West. Rain will move north. The damp weather

will drift into southern England, the South Midlands overnight. The

clearest weather overnight will be in the Northwest. Temperatures take

a tumble. A frost developing by the end of the night. Tomorrow, a

cloudier prospect across England and Wales. A few spots of rain. No

significant amounts. The best of the sunshine for Scotland, Northern

Ireland and the Northwest of England. Fine weather forgetting out

and about. The last time Hilary Benn

joined us in the studio, it was hours after being sacked

as Shadow Foreign Secretary But you can't keep a Benn down,

and he's bobbed up again after being elected as the first

chair of parliament's First of all, congratulations on

your election. Is it something of a come to be doing a select committee?

Good morning. I am honoured to have been chosen by members of Parliament

to chair this select committee. I think everybody recognises that the

task of leading the European Union, which is what we are going to do, is

the most complex task that we have faced as a country, certainly in

peace time, and the select committee will play an important part in

scrutinising the means by which that happens and the decisions the

government takes. It is a very interesting and a slightly odd time.

So far nobody from the government is saying how it is going to happen.

Will you be able to fill that gap? Will you have David Davis and Liam

Fox, and maybe Boris Johnson, in front of your committee explaining

what they are open to. --? I am sure the committee will want to hear from

all of those ministers and many other people, because once -- what

is the immediate task? To work out our negotiating tactics as we

undertake the process of leaving the European Union. The government says

it is not going to give us a running commentary. Nobody is asking for

that. But I think it is right and proper that Parliament should first

of all have a chance to express a view about what our negotiating

objectives are going to be. You will be cross questioning David Davis in

public about his negotiating objectives? I think it is essential

that is shared with Parliament. Apart from anything else, the

European Parliament has this system where information is shared with it.

The British Parliament cannot get anything less. Pretty Patel said you

cannot do this because it is like playing poker and asking you to put

your cards on the table. Essentially she said of this committee works, it

on patriotic. You have to allow the government to do its job secret, in

private. We all want the best possible deal out of this

negotiation for the United Kingdom. Nobody is asking the government to

reveal its negotiating hand, what its tactics are, its fallback

position. There are some basic questions. For example, the biggest

challenge we face at the moment is uncertainty about what the future

holds. What is going to be our future trading relationship with the

European Union? What objective is the government going to set? We need

to know this before they trigger Article 50? That is a separate

matter. The government argues, we have a mandate from the British

people and since we are going to leave the European Union, you do

need to trigger article start that process. I think we should separate

that from Parliament taking a view on what the objectives should be.

Let me ask you again about the committee. You talk about talking to

other people. For instance, the car manufacturing industry has specific

concerns. Universities have got particular concerns. Other groups of

people, the construction industry, wants to know how many electricians

and plumbers we are going to bring in. Will those people be in front of

your committee saying specifically what they would like to see out of

negotiations? One of the complex tasks having this select committee

will involve is working with the other select committees in

parliament that have already started talking to those different

industries and sectors. One of the things I think the committee will

want to do is draw on the evidence that some of those other committees

have already taken, and then look at what else we need to see, who else

we need to talk to. We do not want duplication. We want the most

effective way of doing our job. This period of silence is going to

end because you were going to do this and we will piece together a

good idea of what Britain was like out of Brexit? That depends on the

government and what they are prepared to say, and I expect the

select committee will want to get ministers

to give answers, because we want controls on free movement with the

greatest possible access to the single market, and there are whole

areas, defence and security and foreign policy, where everyone

recognises in the United Kingdom and what will be the European Union, it

is in our joint interests to find ways of cooperating because there

are big challenges in the world. We mentioned Article 50, is it your

understanding that before it is to get the government will have made

out its position before the House of Commons and there will be a vote? I

hope the government will lay out their negotiating position, but I

think it is not a vote on Article 50, it is a vote on... Parliament

will seek to have a vote on the negotiating plan. They are different

things. It is a vote on the negotiating plan? Parliament will

want to express a view about the government's negotiating plan but

that is not the same as having a vote on Article 50. I understand

that. This is important. People have said what Parliament might try and

do is to some way undermined the referendum decision, but that is not

what Parliament wishes to do and that is not what I want to do as the

chair of the select committee, because I accept the decision of the

referendum even though I campaign for Remain. It is about the

negotiating objectives and not about the triggering of Article 50. Ahead

of the triggering of Article 50, the government says these are the

negotiating objectives and this is what we want to do, and Parliament

says, we don't like the look of that. That is voted down, what

happens then? General election? It depends. The government might need

to come back and say we have had a think about it and we are going to

change this or do that. We could be heading for a early election. That

is in the hands of the Prime Minister, not in the hands of myself

and the select committee, but it seems perfectly reasonable that the

government should share it with Parliament, because they are going

to share it with Europe, they are going to share their negotiating

objectives, because there are practical questions, as well as free

movement, and future trading relationships, are they going to

remain part of Europol? One other point, I think it will be very

important for the government to indicate that if it is not possible

within the two years provided for by article 52 negotiate our withdrawal

and a new trading relationship, market access, for services --

Article 50 two negotiate a it should tell the House of Commons

that it will seek a transitional arrangement with the European Union,

because that will help. It might have to go on for longer than two

years? The withdrawal process might be only two years because 27 other

member states have got to agree to prolong it, but the transitional

arrangement would offer confidence to business which is important,

pending the government finally being able to negotiate a new arrangement

with the rest of the European Union on trade and market access. This is

clearly a very important job. Given where Labour is in the polls and

given Jeremy Corbyn's victory in his second leadership election, people

like you should be serving in the Shadow Cabinet, making sure the best

possible result for Labour in the next election? I will be doing that,

working as hard as I have always done to encourage people to vote

Labour and to seek at a Labour victory at the next election. I made

the decision that this is a very important task that we have got and

this is the way I've decided to play my part and Parliament decided I

should do so by voting me into the job. Final question, probably a

terse answer, can Jeremy Corbyn be a good Prime Minister? I hope we're

going to win the next election, but we have a big task our hands, Jeremy

is leader and I congratulated him, the party now wants to come together

to hold the government to account, but the challenge for Labour is to

win the people's trust and confidence and we have a lot of work

to do that. Hilary Benn, thanks for joining us.

Sir Kenneth Branagh is often compared to that other theatrical

One of Olivier's great roles, John Osborne's The Entertainer,

is the part that Branagh has chosen to round off a season

When we met at the Garrick Theatre, we began by talking about the hit

TV drama, Wallander, based on the novels of Henning Mankell.

Kenneth Branagh started by reflecting on Mankell's death

last year, which added a real poignancy to the final series.

Was there anything on his mind recently? Anything troubling him?

Would you say he was depressed? Yes. Like 60% of the population. It had a

definite impact because of the way he spoke of life generally had a

different gravitational weight and he was somebody, I remember the last

time I saw him, he was very keen to have this thing he hadn't had before

and he got very giggly in this fancy restaurant. He considered that the

ability, to pay for it and to eat it, to be the kind of thing, example

of where he was in life which was everything which is a big adventure,

this meal or that extra day. This sunshine or the relief on that

plane, he was very much living right in the moment which made him very

sensitive -- relief from that pain. The Entertainer, one of the great

roles, why did you decide to take it on? Rob Ashford the director said he

would like to do it. He said he wanted to do this and not make

Archie a failure, no one says he is second rate in this and I would like

this incredible passion and visceral emotion in the play to be at the

centre, said this is not a lament. It is not a dying for -- so this is

not a lament. It is not about an England which is no more, this is a

quintessential state of the nation play. This was written 56 years --

written in 56, 57, Indymedia aftermath of Suez. -- in the

immediate aftermath will could you say this is a post Brexit

play? It is hard not to be aware of that in the evening itself, you feel

that in the theatre, there are intakes of breath and recognition

and sometimes people are very agitated. By the provocation in the

play which is significant. It has voices, everyone looking to see what

is possible, and we are watching a post-Suez play when Britain did not

know who it was, whether it had power in relation to the Americans

and the Russians. We are also watching a play which was one

heartbeat away from the 60s. Rock 'n' roll was just art in. Everything

they thought they might not have there is a beacon in the play, the

prospect of a new life in Canada is held up. My own parents, my dad was

a joiner, there was the possibility of assisted passage to take the

family to Canada or Australia where his skills would be welcomed. We

would have a new life. The play talks about Archie coming from

Bridlington, he could have a Chevrolet and a new television set.

Those kind of things, the consumer durables, they were choices. Many

people watching on television are frustrated because they can't see

this in the West End, but on screens around the country this is going to

be filmed, which is a bit strange. It is not the film we remember, it

is not the play, it is something between the two. It is a live cinema

broadcast from the Garrick Theatre in front of the 710 people watching

here, it will go out to hundreds of screens all over the world. All over

this country. If someone's phone goes off, everyone watching in the

cinema will hear it? That is correct, but I can say, given the

degree of nervous tension, the possibility of laughing is unlikely.

What it does do is bring an incredible focus to the evening. It

has been amazing, we have done this with a Winter 's tale and Romeo and

Juliet, nearly 400,000 people have seen these shows around the globe,

and when you know that is happening you are very well-behaved. This is

part of the Kenneth Branagh season at the Garrick Theatre where you put

on and often direct and start in the place, and the highlight for many

people was the Winter 's tale. What about Judi Dench? Extraordinary

moment. Great comfort that I have had of the. I am not well. In that

role, the combination of consummate gifts of a stage artist and mastery

of Shakespeare was at the service of an incredibly strong, feisty

intelligent, passionate sharp edged, sharp-witted woman who takes a man

who has made an insane and ridiculous accusation of infidelity

on the part of his wife and she shows in white he is wrong over

period of years and punishes him in the way he ought to be punished --

shows why he is wrong. And then offers redemption through what you

Michael Shakespearian magic. Judi Dench was earthy and sexy and magic

and funny and also heartbreaking -- through what you might call

Shakespearian magic. Being on stage with her was an electrifying

experience because she is always different every night. She is a

shining example of what is possible in the hands of a great artist.

1974, the film of murder on the Orange express comes out, one of the

great films -- murder on the aria and express. You are doing this

again, why? It is a great story, Agatha Christie knew how to write a

cracking yarn and that psychological thriller, 12 suspects trapped in a

very dangerous place. The possibility of doing that with a

great cast is very attractive. Ingrid Bergman, Lauren Bacall, John

Gilbert, Albert Finney, you have assembled a good cast arrival that?

We have Johnny Depp and Michelle Pfeiffer, Derek Jacobi. I will also

be appearing in it as her kill Prahran. It is endlessly gripping. I

look forward to it very much. You sound like a lucky man, Kenneth

Branagh, thanks for joining us. Appreciate it. Sir Ken Branagh. I

said Steven Woolfe was punched, we know he went down, but we don't know

he was punched, so apologies that. -- apologies for that.

Chris Grayling was one of the most prominent leaders of the Leave side

Theresa May made him Transport Secretary which,

with huge decisions to come about Heathrow and high-speed rail,

But he's also expected to be a decisive voice around the Cabinet

Have you taken a decision about the airport? That will be taken this

week, we have a genuinely difficult decision because there are three

very good choices on the table and I've visited all three. Heathrow and

Gatwick? Heathrow to make it a double runway, essentially, and

Gatwick with a new runway to the south. You haven't made up your

mind? It is a difficult one, they are three well crafted proposals and

they could bring benefits to the United Kingdom. You take a decision

and then we have a year-long consultation process. What can you

get from that? It is a statutory process, some people have said the

decision has been delayed by year, but it hasn't. The planning act has

a clear process for a project of this kind, which was introduced to

address the issue... We have the 10-year inquiry for Heathrow

terminal five, for example, and it reduces the period and it

streamlines it, so we have the consultation, Parliamentary

scrutiny, vote in parliament and then the chosen airport can deliver

the detailed planning application. Most countries of our size have a

single hub airport which connects to the rest of the world, is that what

we need? That is one alternative, the other side of the argument is

that the arrival of new aircraft like a new Boeing 747 makes it

possible to run a point-to-point aviation in a way which was not

possible in the past, at a much lower cost, so there are competing

arguments. If you go for Heathrow, they will be big party management

problems, Boris Johnson said he will lie down in front of the bulldozers.

You might have to get a bigger bulldozer. LAUGHTER

Yarde there will be challenge and opposition whatever option -- they

will be challenge and opposition whatever option, but we have got to

deliver the best connectivity at a time when we want to grow trade

international links and open up opportunities for Britain, and of

course there will be opposition whatever we do.

You have backed HS2 absolutely. Can you just rehearse for us by how much

the costs have can you tell us how much the costs of increased? We are

tunnelling quite a lot under the childrens. That is a cost we would

not have incurred if we had just decided to build it above ground in

the way that other countries have done. Any escalation in cost is not

about a project under control. It is about conscious political decisions

to find the right balance between a project we need and an impact on the

environment we want to minimise. Andrew Adonis said it would cost the

country 30 billion. It is now around 50 billion. The Institute for

Economic Affairs has suggested 80 billion. Is this a blank check? Is

there a limit? Is there a moment where you say, I know this is a

prestige project but is now too expensive? No, there isn't. The

current figures include contingency and risk planning. We are in a

situation where the bill that will start phase one is nearly through

the house of lords. It is due to complete its passage around the turn

of the year. We will start construction of the first phase from

London to the Midlands in the New Year. It is not a question of

whether this is a project with a distant future. It is a project

about to start. It is a hugely expensive project. In terms of the

amounts, we talk about these big figures, it is the equivalent of 100

new General Hospitals for this country. It is the equivalent of

more than one dozen new aircraft carriers. It would transform the NHS

and make the lives of people on benefits much easier if you chose

not to spend it on this railway. My real question is, is there a moment

when it becomes too expensive? Has this decision been taken and will

nothing alter it or can you alter the decision? The costs are not

rising. We are very committed... Can you guarantee that if the IAEA are

right and this ends of costing ?80 billion, Christopher Grayling will

resign from the government? By the time we finish the project I don't

imagine I will still be transport Secretary. If we are going to have a

transport system that will deliver for this country for the future, we

need this. HS2 is about speed. We have a transport system that is

creaking at the seams. We need extra capacity. If you are going to build

extra capacity on the railways, why not build a state-of-the-art railway

rather than using the technology of yesterday? HS2 does not even

connected to the Eurostar terminal. People will have to get out at

Euston and walk along the pavement to get to the continent. Are you

convinced it is not right to transfer directly onto the Eurostar

route? When people talk about connectivity, connectivity for HS2

is about linking Birmingham and Leeds, Birmingham and Manchester,

creating a real additional benefit for the Midlands and the Northern

economy. People tend to look at it to a London prism. Other people say

that so-called HS3, linking the northern cities, will do more for

the North? Of course, we are developing that for the future. That

development work is being done right now. At the same time we are

spending three other than ?50 million on rail improvements to

Liverpool. And the trans-Pennine route. It is not that nothing is

happening in the north. What is happening right now is important

that will make a difference for a similar. Let me turn to Brexit. The

big news of the week was the collapse of the trade deal with

Canada and the EU. Are you worried about that? Are you thinking, this

will be harder than we expected? We want the Canadian deal to be done.

It is in the interests of everybody on both sides of the Atlantic that

this happens. We are the European Union's most important export

market. Look at the issue of Belgium this week. We are a huge market for

Belgian agriculture. Nobody in continental Europe benefits from a

reduction in the abilities to trade with the United Kingdom. Have you

got the Walloons onside? It is not going to be in their interest to see

tariff plot -- tariffs imposed. We will have tariff free trade,

sensible trade arrangements. It is in both our interests that this will

happen. Through the referendum campaign people like you said this

was going to happen because they are rational free-trades. Actually what

we are seeing at the moment is a lot of politics involved. Patriotic and

angry Frenchman and Germans talking about how we have behaved. There is

more emotion in this and therefore it will be more troubling than you

expected? There was always going to be a in this, politics, political

statements, political positioning before discussions start. I have

been having regular dealings with counterpart in the European Union,

with the commission, since taking over this job. My experience has

been nothing but friendly relations and a desire to work together in the

future. One of the problems ahead, and the Canadian thing shows this

comment is that if we cannot do proper trade deals until we have

dealt with the EU negotiations, we could face a cliff edge. In other

words, we cannot do a trade deal with Canada now, perhaps we ought to

be able to do that since we are leaving anyway. We are already

having discussions with other countries. What we can't do is

insert ourselves in the middle of the Canadian trade deal while

members of the European Union. But of course we can pave the way for

the trade deals that follow. That is what we will do. That is what Liam

Fox is doing. Would you like to see Philip Green stripped of his

knighthood? Parliament has expressed a clear view. This is a matter for

the Independent honours committee. They will take note of what has

happened. It is their calls. Hilary Benn was saying now that the most

important thing is to make it clear that there could be a transitional

period between horse leaving the EU and everything being tidied up.

There is a fear we run out of time in two years and the deals have not

been done, and business and industry do not have the certainty they need.

Do you think a transitional arrangement is sensible? It is a

difficult argument. We have been saying very clearly that we cannot

give a running commentary on this. I know people are frustrated. We are

all very frustrated! Laying all your cards on the table at the start of a

negotiation is not sensible. We will do the right thing for Britain. We

will inform Britain as much as we possibly can. The national interest

has to come first. Thank you. Loudon Wainwright III, quirky,

self-exposing, often funny - and a real survivor who's been

on the road since the 1960s. There is really no American

singer quite like him, and he's back in the UK

for a nationwide tour. He headlined the London Palladium

last night, and he's Welcome. Great to have you. Good

morning. You are doing a big project about your dad, a writer for life

magazine. That's right. He was a reporter. He had a column. He wrote

many columns, many of which were political, but he also wrote about

his personal life. I have devised a show where I connect some of my

songs with some of his writing, which I perform and enjoy doing

that. That is coming in March next year? I am doing it here in London

in March. You have talked about using the family life. The fodder

for your music has been your own life and your family, and members of

your family. You have all said terrible things about each other in

song. Tallo us about the song you are going to sing now. It is about

you? It is about me. It is called a one-man guy, I wrote it years ago.

It is about my isolationist tendencies. My job requires me to

travel alone most of the time. But sometimes I can cut Michael itself

off from other people. -- myself. It is not really a good thing. You

started writing at the same time as Bob Dylan. Is he a deserving

recipient of the Nobel Prize, and are you surprised he has been

completely silent since? Working backwards, it doesn't surprise me.

It is very like him to be mysterious and cryptic. I think it is great

that he was given the price. I hope he takes it. He changed everything.

You are a great songwriter yourself. I will let you set up. Loudon

Wainwright III. Now let's find out what's coming up

after the show. Coming up on Sunday Morning Live:

Is it racist to want tougher checks Should the Army be allowed

to recruit 16-year-olds? Donny Osmond tells us

what it was like when his And music to celebrate Black History

Month. Andrew Neil will be here at 11

with the Sunday Politics, when his guests will include another

of Ukip's senior figures, Join me at the same time next week,

when my guests will include For now, I'll leave

you with Loudon Wainwright singing one of his best loved hits

about life as a lone # People will know when they see

this show # They'll understand just

what I stand for # They'll perceive

what I believe in # And they'll recognise

I'm a one man guy # People meditate,

hey, that's just great # People depend

on family and friends # I don't know why

I'm a one man guy # But these three cubic

feet of bone and blood and meat # Cos I'm a one man guy

in the morning # One man guy

when the sun goes down # I'm a one man guy,

and that one man is me # I'm gonna bathe and shave

and dress myself # Unplug the

phone and sleep alone # Sure it's kinda lonely,

yeah, it's sort of sick # Being your own one and only

is a selfish, dirty trick # But I'm a one man guy

in the morning # One man guy

when the sun goes down # One man guy, one man guy,

only kinda guy to be # I'm a one man guy,

and that one man is me.