07/05/2017 The Andrew Marr Show

So, at last, some real meat - some detailed policies

in the election campaign - and not just details,

the biggest issues of all: how much tax you will be paying

and how confident you can be about the National Health Service

And the Tory record on the NHS. What of Labour's tax plans? Jeremy

Corbyn's left hand man and #145ed owe Chancellor on-Mc

Also today, the Archbishop of York, John Sentamu, on the dangers

of interrogating politicians too closely on their faith.

I don't think anybody has a right to interpret and read the mind of the

person as Elizabeth the I said, we do not have a window into people's

souls. Plus, during times when we focus

on bad behaviour in public life, Imelda Staunton and Conleth Hill

on a raw and still shocking play about drunkenness

and family collapse. And we have music from one of the

UK's biggest new acts, # When I heard that sound

# When the walls came down # I was thinking about you

# About you... . # The political editor of Buzzfeed,

Jim Waterson, the Labour adviser turned stand-up comic,

Ayesha Hazarika and the Conservative commentator,

Tim Montgomerie. All that after the news read for us

this morning by Ben Thompson. Labour is pledging not to raise

income tax for those earning less than ?80,000,

if it wins the general election. The party says it

will not increase VAT or employee

national insurance rates. But it says the top 5%

of earners will pay more The Conservatives say there

is a ?45 billion black hole Meanwhile, the Prime Minister says

that if her party is re-elected, the Conservatives will replace

current mental health legislation in England and Wales, with a new law

tackling discrimination and the unnecessary

detention of vulnerable people. The party is also promising 10,000

more staff working in NHS mental Labour says the Tories appear

to be offering no extra funding And the Health Secretary Jeremy Hunt

will be on this programme later to talk about the mental health

announcement. Andrew will also be talking to

the Shadow Chancellor John McDonnell Polls in France will open shortly

for the final round of the country's Voters are choosing

between Marine Le Pen Results are expected before midnight

tonight in what's being described as the most important election

in France for decades. The Nigerian presidency has

confirmed that 82 schoolgirls, who were kidnapped by Islamist

militants in 2014, have been freed. They were among more than 270 girls

seized from a boarding school in the town of Chibok

in a night-time attack. More than 100 girls

are still missing. Around 50,000 people will be

evacuated from the German city of Hanover later so experts can remove

five unexploded wartime bombs. The bombs were found

during work at a building site. Some 2,500 firefighters,

rescuers, and police officers are being deployed to help

with the operation which affects around a

tenth of the city's population. And Labour's tax plan making a lot

of the splash headlines "we'll fund spending by raising tax on big

earners with extra cash for health and schools, it says. A rather

different tone on the Sunday Telegraph. Labour tax to hammer

workers on ?80,000. All those ?80,000 worningers. The Sunday Times

on its rich list, Brexit brings bonanza for billionaires. The Labour

tax story there as well. Finally, a lot of coverage of poor Zoe Ball's

loss. Her husband died. Anded Sunday express, may's June revolution.

Looking forward to the Tory manifesto. Much to discuss. Above

all, the election story. Ayesha, you've taken the front page

of the Sunday Times? Labour's trying to get back on the front foot after

difficult local election results with what will be a popular policy

for Labour supporters. There is a lot of concern about inequality. A

lot of concern public services are not getting the adequate amount of

funding. A lot of people will think, yeah, this is good, the Labour Party

is saying those who earn more should be paying more. But the devil will

be in the detail. We don't know when the manifesto is coming out. We'll

need to see how much this money will raise and where it will be spent. It

is good but there is still a massive issue about credibility with the

Labour Party. A very interesting story there in the same story about

how Labour's expecting to be judged on these results. It is suggesting

it is not just the amount of MPs but the share of the vote comparing that

to Ed Miliband's performance last time round? This looks like this has

come from somebody close to Jeremy Corbyn. A pre-emptive strike to

shore Jeremy Corbyn up against any potential leadership challenges down

the track if the general election doesn't go well for Labour. This

isn't the way to look at things. Labour is about winning seats.

That's what a political party does. You have to look at performance,

that's parliamentary seats. We're obsessed by vote share after the

local elections. Tim, the most important political news of the week

is the ongoing row between the Government here and the EU

Commission over Brexit? Absolutely. The local elections have been

fascinating. It has been a brilliant week for the Tories in that sense.

Are the longer term implications on Brexit the thing we'll remember from

the last few day?s I've always been a bracts the supporter. I've thought

it is quite important for us to create, not just get into the detail

of the Brexit negotiations but create an environment in which

Europe wants to do a deal with us. We tackle the idea somehow we've

rejected Europe as a continent, a civilisation. We want to separate

ourselves from them. Six days after Donald Trump became president

Theresa May was off to the US making a pro-US speech. There was never a

pro-EU speech. A declaration of love with Europe. Instead, this week,

we've almost a declaration of war. I'm worried about the mood music for

the context of these talks. She was responding, you were disconcerted, I

saw your tweets, what she said outside Number Ten. On the other

hand, she was responding to very aggressive briefing by Juncker and

others into the German press and across Europe. In an accepts, I

don't want to sound like a playground person, they started it!

They may have done. I understand why she was provoked. The initial

response from Downing Street was this was a private meeting, we don't

comment on leaks. That to they sounded grown up. The strong and

stable Theresa May we're being presented to us as the Prime

Minister the country needs. One of the things is there's so much

posturing going on over Brexit at the moment from both sides, while it

is important to people in the General Election, people are worried

Brexit is overshadowing a lot of really important domestic issues,

particularly the Health Service and schools and education. We talk

endlessly about the election but many of us don't realise there is

another election campaign going on almost in parallel. Jim, you're

Political Editor of Buzzfeed. You're working on social media? On Buzz

feed we work out how technology is changing politics. We've made a

social barometer, an attempt to see what people on Facebook, used by the

majority of UK adults are sharing about the election. The end result

is a very different narrative to the one we see from newspapers, which

overwhelmingly in this country lean to the right. It's a world where

Jeremy Corbyn is doing far better than expected. A world where these,

the evil Tory policies the Government are pushing on people.

That sort of story goes viral. The most interesting thing, alternatives

sites like Canary, Evolved Politics Quackbox are going viral as much as

mainstream. This allows people who have... One of the more popular

blocks has reached over a million people which is comparable to the

circulation of a newspaper, a guy who run as blog called Another Angry

Voice. This is going viral online. In the same way at Donald Trump in

his rides in the US again presidential election, he saw media

rise up. I'm not saying this will win over voters. This is Jeremy

Corbyn supporters who feel they are not represented by the rest of the

media choosing in large numbers to look for news elsewhere. I'm across

the older gits. You were talking about your buzz feed story using

Facebook and Twitter. I don't use Facebook much. That makes me odd,

does it? If you go on to buzz feed.com you can see our analysis.

Facebook is reaching a far bigger number of people than Twitter.

Twitter's where journalists and politicians like to hang out.

Facebook is where the person who has fief minutes waiting for the bus

looks at the news and its sees info. Do you recognise the rise of the alt

left in Britain? There's a lot spoken about fake news. It is not

fake news as such but it is hyper partisan audiences. On your Facebook

site particularly, you are in quite an echo chamber. If you're getting

messages you already agree with, they will be hugely ampified. That

rise of had a hyper-partisan platform will eventually have an

effect. Jim's right, whether that has a huge knowledgeon effect in

terms of how it moves the needle when people come to vote, remains to

be seen. Tim, a respectable newspaper man in the past, you're

tiptoeing gently into this world? I used to run Conservative Home which

appealed to Tory activists. We gave the Tory activists, I hope, a very

focussed news feed on Tory news. But we were quite critical of the Tory

leadership at times. What I hear about this in contrast, it is giving

readers constantly what they want to hear. It is not like independent

journalism here. The view from these sites is if right-wing tabloids have

been doing this for years why not apply it to the left? In 2015, we

thought with because Twitter was so positive about the Labour and the

polls as well, victory was ours. Sadly, there's more to the case.

There's more to the world than Facebook and Twitter. Ayesha, you've

the Sun story on the French elections? It is a very strange

headline. Very good headline. This is an extraordinary story. Another

huge cyber leak just on the eve of pooling. There are quite severe

reporting restrictions about what was leaked. But clearly it looks

like there's again disruption going ton with western democracies. People

are looking at Russia in terms of whether they are to blame for this.

All eyes will be on France today for this election. Macron looks like

he's doing pretty well from the polls. Marine Le Pen is not going to

go away. The how will of discontent people feel this rage against the

elite. A dominant narrative is not going to go away. There will have to

be a big inquiry into what this is all about. This leak dropped just as

the moment the French press were unable to talk about it because of

their rules. We must wonder whether we will get things like this in our

British election? It will be very hard to imagine they weren't at

least try in some sense. They clearly hacked Macron's campaign,

mixed it up with some fake documents and released it at a point where

no-one could report it. They didn't get anything particularly juicy but

dropped it nonetheless. The tweet of the week belongs to the Russian

embassy in London. They said at leastn't them being accused of

interfering with the British elections. We don't need the

Russians to get involved in British politics. Another big story. It is

the Sunday Times rich list causing the rest of us to sit over hour

cornflakes sucking our teeth with envy. What is the story this year?

Is it the effect of Brexit on the richest people in the country? It

is. Brexit has resulted in the pound's value falling. If you earn

all your money overseas or your companies do, you have holdings

overseas, you're sudden 20% richer. If you're a billionaire and your

stocks have shot up that much thanks to Brexit, on paper you're worth so

much more. The main thing is seeing what happens when that money that

has been overseas, comes back to London, suddenly, it's a lot cheaper

to bring it back home. Adele is worth ?129 million. Makes me feel so

much better. A warm glow of empathy. On your topic you have a lot about

Prince Philip, looking back at his career, his life? The life in the

public eye. This is an island in Vanuatu? And island in the Pacific,

they have regarded Prince Philip for decades as a demigod, the son of the

mountain god that they worship. They believe that should he come back to

the island, that their crops will grow taller, and sickness on the

island will disappear. You can imagine that news of his retirement

has hit him a little bit harder than it has hit some of us in the UK. He

has said that... Prince Edward has said in an interview that he will

pick and choose his public appointments. He isn't completely

retiring! I had to say, reading across The Papers today, I do not

think it is only Pacific Islanders who regard him as a demigod this

morning! Stephen Fry, talking of gods and demigod, is in trouble?

Yes, this is an old interview from a couple of years ago, asked his views

on God can he has played God in his time, he said if there was a god,

why would all of these terrible things be happening? A viewer has

complained, and it is being investigated by the police now under

blasphemy laws. It does seem extraordinary, in an age of free

speech, that people would be... The police would be wasting time

investigating this as a serious crime. The Republic of Ireland

remains a culture like that, but talking about God, that allows me to

say thank you very much to all of you. And we can move straight into

this. The Church of England's two

archbishops have issued a letter on the general election to be read

by congregations around the country. But should we really be mixing faith

and politics at all? John Sentamu, Archbishop of York

spoke to me earlier. I asked him if, after the local

elections, the general election Because in the end, everybody who's

got the right to vote, I want to encourage them to go out

and actually cast their vote. Because you see, apathy and cynicism

does not help our nation. You know, there are countries where

they do not have a right to vote, and they are dying to have a ballot

and be able to vote. In this country, if everybody

eligible to vote actually voted, the result would be

an interesting result. Can I ask you - why do you say

we should be praying for our elected politicians,

who are not terribly Constantly we are praying

and not only for the Queen that our government and those

who govern us - because prayer, in many ways, is one way

of connecting myself with the person There is too much cynicism

about everything else. We talk about crisis all the time,

but actually, this country - yes, housing is a challenge,

education is a challenge, health is a challenge -

but on the whole, there are many Prayer helps us to

actually celebrate. So during the election campaign,

already one politician, Tim Farron of the Liberal Democrats,

has been constantly pressed about whether,

as an evangelical Christian, Do you think that is an acceptable

thing for a politician to be asked? If he has expressed a view

on homosexual people, If he expressed no view,

I don't think anybody is of right to interpret and read the mind

of the person as we do not Tim Farron expressed a view

and they were pressing And trying to create

a window into his soul... Trying to create

a window into his heart. But if you come up with these views,

for example, I will be one of those if he suggested that homosexual

people should be criminalised, I would be against him

saying, no, no, no. You cannot criminalise people

because of their sexual And someone is trying

to fish and fish and fish and eventually they will take him

into a realm of theology. Is he qualified to comment

on those realms of theology? There are some things in here that

some people would say are strange for archbishops to get involved in,

like productivity in Why would the Church of England

have a view on subjects like that? Because the whole of the world

belongs to God, and I strongly believe that every human

person should flourish. If there are things that

are preventing flourishing, like the environment,

things like wages, things like housing,

things like education, health care, and people

are not flourishing... If I simply sat on the sidelines

and did not get involved, what kind of a Bible

are people reading? Do you think that the North

is getting a fair crack Are you encouraged by what is

going on in the North I mean it is interesting -

the plant, the Nissan plant actually up in Newcastle,

has got the greatest productivity in the country

and produces a lot of money. What is critical is that

some of that should be There is still a big job to be

done but heaven's sake, let us not always look at things

purely in negative terms. Because every human person

is of infinite wealth, and that is why I am so fed up

when I hear constantly people talking about "ordinary

hard-working people". They may be unemployed,

but they are still extraordinary, so let us celebrate our common

humanity. So you want to govern for

extraordinary hard-working people? It's been a rather desolate,

bone-aching and frankly soul-destroying week,

meteorogically. I wish I could think of something

good to say about it but I can't. Over to Louise Lear

in the BBC weather studio. I'm not sure residents of the

Scottish Highlands would agree! They have had blue skies and sunshine,

highs of up to 21 degrees all week. But I understand what you are

talking about, this morning the breeze from the North Sea, the East

Coast has been really disappointing. West is best and we will see lovely

spells of sunshine, a glorious start in Rochdale. A nagging northerly

wind is still with us. Strengthening to a gale force wind in the Northern

Isles, driving in cloud. The East Coast is cool and disappointing. Get

some shelter, sunshine is strong at this time of year and temperatures

respond. Highs in the high teens, as high as 21 degrees in Northern

Ireland. If this happens, the warmest day of the year so far for

you. Not so warm in the Scottish Highlands due to this cold air from

the north. Clear skies overnight, temperatures falling away.

Gardeners, growers and farmers, take note! Anywhere from North Wales,

northwards, you could see some light frost first thing into Monday

morning. Blue skies, sunshine, West is best again. Dry weather stays

with us for the early half of the week. The potential of rain towards

the first half of this week... After very disappointing

local election results, According to yesterday's Guardian,

the Shadow Chancellor John McDonnell is to be deployed to reveal more

about his values and personal story. Before we get onto that... I do not

know where that story came from, but there we are! The Guardian

newspaper! Let me ask about local elections. You said that the results

were mixed. A mix between bad and very bad? They were really

disappointing, of course they were. We fought hard, there were mixed

results. In some areas, like Manchester and Liverpool, and down

in Bristol in the south-west, we did pretty well. And in Wales, it was

not so bad, but of course was disappointing. Who is to blame? I

think we have a period of time where we haven't been able to get policies

across. It is partly the media, I need to be straight about that, but

we are campaigning as a united party. The campaign has two step up

a notch. The general election starts now, local government elections are

over, now the general election. We get more balanced coverage in terms

of a general election campaign, so we have the opportunity to put our

ideas across and so people can learn more about Jeremy Corbyn as leader.

Do you think the more they see him, the more they will like, that is not

the evidence so far? It is important in a general election in a democracy

like this to put your policies out there straightforwardly and show the

kind of person you are. I want this debate between Jeremy and Theresa

May, I do not understand why she is running from it. If we can debate in

France between the two candidates for president, why can't we? If they

see more of Jeremy, they will see the honest and decent person that he

is... She will debate with other leaders, in that case? I want

Theresa May to respond to this. The reality is, whoever will be Prime

Minister of this country will be either Jeremy Corbyn or Theresa May.

We need her to say that she will debate this. What is wrong with

that? We are a democracy, for goodness' sake. Another reason as to

what went wrong for your party was given by yourself a few years ago.

You said it was not arguable that a party leader could not win an

election if behind in the polls on economic competence.

You are way behind in the polls. Up to a point, you must take personal

responsibility and Mark of course, we have been behind in economic and

ability since 2008, that happened to most political parties. Of course

there is a responsibility. 18 months to get your message across? We are

trying and that is why in this campaign there's a real opportunity

to get the message across, about how we will manage that economy in

future. The message today from you is that if you own more than ?80,000

payday you pay more in tax but if not, you pay no more? Anyone earning

below ?80,000, we are saying that you guarantee there will be no

increase in VAT or national insurance contributions. For those

over ?80,000, we are asking them to pay a modest bit more to fund public

services. Last week you had Theresa May on, and you put a very good

question to her about nurses. An 11% cut in wages over the last seven

years, some nurses going to food banks, that cannot be right. We are

asking higher earners to pay a bit more. Are we asking about a new rate

of tax? What will happen this week is the Lib Dems and Labour will be

launching the new manifesto the week after next and we will identify the

specifics... You said clearly that people over

?80,000 per year will be paying more. A bit more, a modest bit more

but the reason I am saying this, I want middle and low earners to be

assured that under Labour they will not be paying more in tax. There

have been ludicrous figures that the Tories have been bandying about and

I want them to have that assurance. A little bit more, John McDonnell

has changed his mind about those earning over ?100,000 paying 62%

Britton you will see that it will be a modest increase? -- 60%? It will

go to education services, care services and the NHS. They are

desperately in need. I hope when Jeremy Hunt comes on, you will

asking these questions. Can I ask you about policy? For people earning

?150,000, is that a return to the 50% tax band for them? I'm sorry to

argue but we have a democratic process in Labour, the following

week, the manifesto will be there. What I am doing, to be certain, I

will be identifying for each policy the costing of that policy. How will

you pay for it? The assurance I am getting is that lower and middle

earners will not have an increase in tax and there will not be any

stealth tax. Can I ask you about stealth taxes? You have not

specifically ruled out a rise in employers national insurance? I

never mentioned that in the past. That's why people were suspicious.

Let me allay their suspicions, that is not happening. And what about the

18, will you extend the rate over other areas? You said you will not

raise the rate of VAT? The only exception we made was Private school

fees, where we want to put VAT on that and we will get free school

meals for children using that. I think it is fair. The Sunday Times

Rich list has come out today, very rich people indeed, are you

attracted to the idea of a wealth tax? I'm shocked all the time about

inequalities within our society. Somehow, we must address that. We

will be bringing forward ideas around that, in terms of

inequalities, and... A wealth tax is possible? We are talking about

individual areas coming forward. A policy we will identify will cost,

and that the same time I will identify a funding source. We are

talking about making sure public services are properly funded. We

aren't talking about hitting people hard, but talking about modest

increases so that we can have a society which we can believe

everybody shares the benefits. How much money do you intend to borrow

over the next ten years? What we have been saying is that in our

capital programme, we have a ?250 billion worth of investments, about

?25 billion over that 10-year period per year, to upgrade infrastructure.

I want to make this... This is a lot of borrowing and tax rises, some

people say this is going back to the 1970s gritty mark shall I tell you

who's advice we took in terms of borrowing? That Hammond. He said --

Philip Hammond. We took the figures from the CBI, about how much exactly

is needed, if we are to be competitive with European and

American competitors. If you look at what Donald Trump is doing, he is

putting in 1 trillion. You are applying to be the second most

important person in the country and would be the first Marxist

Chancellor in this country in modern times, how will that affect things?

I will be the first socialist in the traditions of the Labour Party. That

will be rooted in Labour Party values. They are fairness, equality,

and making sure that there is a democratic decision taken at every

stage. I will be including in the economic develop Mentor

country, -- developmental process of this country, we will develop the

future of our country, it won't be done behind closed doors by private

lobbyist. I used the word Marxist because you yourself has said again

and again that you are clear and an unapologetic Marxist. You don't say

it on television but in obscure places like the House of Commons?

They say whisper a secret in the House of Commons and nobody hears

it! The issue there is in the strong tradition of the Labour Party, they

take into account all of those economic figures. I am saying the

democratic decision-making about the future of our economy will be open

and transparent, and inclusive. It would be done by private lobbyists

but involving both sides of industry and involve elected mayors, and

local democracies. A clear and simple question, are you a Marxist?

I believe that there is a lot... Yes or no? I believe that there is a lot

to learn from capital, recommended not only by me but many others

including mainstream economists. In the long tradition of the Labour

Party, you put it all together, and you have, I think, a direction for

our economy, based upon sound principles of fairness.

You mentioned Das capital, the prediction is capitalism as a system

will come down with an enormous crash. The entire system will fail.

That's where Mark's got it wrong. You said you don't want to replace

the Government, you want to bring down the system? I want to transform

the system. That's where Mark's got it wrong. Awant to transform it. I

want to transform it in a way in which we've a prosperous economy,

where that prosperity's shared by all. Where it is economically

sustainable but environmentally as well. You're no longer looking for a

revolutionary moment? I'm looking for a transformative Government.

Like the Atlee Government, will lay the foundations for a prosperous

economy. When our country's richer and everybody shares in those

riches. You may do well in this election campaign. You may win. If

you don't, you President past have been clear both you and Jeremy

Corbyn will then have to stand down. Do you still agree with that? I'm

not working on wild hip that cal. There's been a rush of young people

going out to vote over the past week. There's been a rush of young

people, I think this will be young people's election as much as

anything. I think we're in there with a real fight. With he know how

tough it is. I don't deny that That's when the Labour Party comes

out fighting and will, I believe, win this election. You said this to

me on that sum subject not long ago. Your critics think you can't win

that election. At the they're proved right, both of you will resign?

That's inof theible. Do you still agree with that? I think we'll win

this election. You said it was inevitable if you didn't. I'm fight

win this election as are our 5,000 members out there. We're not

contemplating any loss. Why, because our country needs us. Thank you.

Was immortalised on screen by Elizabeth Taylor and Richard Burton.

Edward Albee's classic play still packs a punch.

Imelda Staunton and Conleth Hill have been getting rave reviews

It explores a marriage on the rocks, where dark secrets

and frustrated desires slosh around on a sea of alcohol.

I met up with Imelda and Conleth on stage

to hear how they're bringing their version to the big screen too.

Hey! Who... Who ace 's afraid of Virginia Woolf? Virginia Woolf? Ha,

ha, ha. What's the matter? I thought that was a scream. A real scream?

You didn't like it, huh? It was all right, Martha. You laughed your head

off when you heard it at the party. I did not. I smiled. It was all

right. I laughed your Dodd dam head off. It was all right. It was a

scream. It was very funny, yes. Make me puke! I think you've described

this play as a dinner party with the Macbeth's! Tell us about what

happens? It's basically a couple who've been together for 23 years.

He's a sorb why professor in a small New England college. His wife, whose

father happens to be the President of the university. They come home

quite late, about 2.00am after a meet and greet for new teachers and

staff. He's ready for his bed. She informs him they've guests coming

over. So begins three hours of a rollercoaster ride of... Drunken

madness? Yes. Conleth, your character, for a lot of the play,

seems to be a punch bag. What is really driving him? It's hard to pin

him down precisely because we don't know how much of what he tells about

his early life is true or not. If we assume it is, he's a survivor and

has survived some terrible incidents in his early life which has equipped

him to deal well. He doesn't have much ambition or much push but seems

to be quite happy with that. The electricity and aggression between

the two of you masks a deep love which only really emerges by the end

of the play? I think so. Martha has a huge degree of self-loathing. And

this man tolerates her behaviour to a degree. He does that because he

loves and understands that she is mistaken and a very desperate woman

who's had a lonely childhood. I think he recognises almost her lack

of ability, sort of almost matches his own lack of some ability.

They've both holes inside them? Totally. A lot of people will know

this through the famous Elizabeth Taylor Richard Burton film. The

actual process of performing this for film was part of what destroyed

their own marriage. They were bringing home such electricity. I'm

wondering about your wonderful husband Tim? You brought back a

little bit of Martha in the evenings? In rehearsal, it was

pretty grim for him. He would say, here comes chirpy. I think Richard

and Liz had a head-start on that. But now, all its, it's not grumpy,

just absolutely shattered. Did you go back and watch the film before

you did this or is that too close? You wanted to make it your own? I

didn't. I saw clips. I wouldn't watch the film. You've never seen

it? No. I've seen bits and Benny Hill... Take it from that. That's

better. That's what I'm basing it on. That's very funny. It is very

good. You do want to make it your own. She's so extraordinary and he

is. Oh, God. One's intimidated enough without adding insult to

injury. What do you take me for? Much too much. I'll start. I'd

advise againest. Come on in. Get over there and open that door.

You've been advised, Martha. Get over there. Nice the way some people

still have manners and just don't come breaking into other people's

houses Ian if they do hear some sub-human monster jowling at them

from inside. Goddamn you! Ha, ha, Hi, there. About the only thing you

don't do in this play is sing and dance? I do dance. You do sing a

little. You do but you do who ace 's afraid of Virginia Woolf. For people

who does anti-know, why is it called that? It's who's afraid of big bad

wolf? Three little pigs. A literary joke. And Edward Albee who's afraid

of the truth. It's about the truth? Yes. I know people watching these

interviews think, I'd really like to see that but I can't make it to the

West End. This will be filmed and will go out in cinemas all around

the world? Yes on May 18th. I've never done an NT live. This is my

third. It's easy. Are you very much aware of cameras on the set moving

around or does it feel like an ordinary evening? We've done a dress

rehearsal. Hopefully, the cameras are far away. They're trying to film

a theatrical experience. You're not trying to make a film? No. It will

be interesting to see how friends might report back if they get the

electricity you guys got last week. I'm sure they will. Thank you very

much. For a lot of voters,

the central issue in this election campaign is the condition

of our most loved institution But these have not been easy years

for the NHS or for those working in it and the Health Secretary

responsible for the NHS in England may have his work cut out explaining

why its future will be brighter We tend to bandy in numbers a lot in

these conversations. Let me start with a simple question. If I wake up

in the middle of the night and have some pain inside me and I'm rushed

to A How soon should I be seen? The standard says you should be seen

within four hours. Not just seen but treated and either discharged home

or admitted to hospital. When the last time the NHS in England hit

that target? We haven't hit it for over two years. It's not acceptable.

We have a plan to get back to that standard. But... If people vote

Conservative, can they expect you hitting that standard after the

election and if so, why? I think with respect, you have to look at

what's actually happening in A departments which is, despite the

huge pressure... Longer waits. Of an ageing population, half a million

moreover 75s since 2010, we're actually seeing within that crucial

four-hour standard more than 2,000 people every single day being seen

within the standard. Demand has gone up faster than that which is why

we're investing in more doctors and nurses. I'm saying, we've said, we

intend to get back to that standard next year. It is very important we

do so. Another good example of how the NHS is performing or not

performing is the 18 week rule. Again, if I'm in a GP's surgery, I'm

terribly sorry, there's something serious happening to you, you have

to go into hospital for an operation or procedure, I will be seen and

there within 18 weeks. Again, how many people are not seen within 18

weeks at the moment? The standard is 92%. Currently we are on 90%. In

terms of people not being seen that's how many? A significant

number. You've picked two examples. I don't think that is a fair

reflection of the performance of the NHS. This is important. Just before

the election was called at the end of March, the NHS published an

independent report in which they said if you take most major

conditions, heart attacks, stroke, cancer, so on, outcomes have

dramatically improved over the last five years. The example they gave

was cancer. Where they said 7,000 people are alive today who wouldn't

have been alive if we'd kept with the cancer survival rates of 2012.

People watching this programme, there will be thousands and

thousands who will say they've good NHS experience. They recognise the

pressures on the NHS, those crucial standards which we are committed to

getting right. They can see there are more doctors, nurses funding

than ever before. Nobody's saying I, I'm certainly not, nothing's is

going well in the NHS. Not at all. Those are two rules you set

yourself, the four hour rule and 18 week rule to be judged by. You've

failed on both of them. 370,000 people are now not seen within 18

weeks. That number's going up very fast. 100,000 in the last year

alone. They are very, very important standards but they are not the open

standards. They're important to the humane working of the NHS.

Absolutely. So is making sure we don't have a repeat of what happened

at Mid-Staffs. Every day in the NHS we're doing about 5,000 more

operations. The number of patients being harmed with things like blood

clots, avoidable falls, pressure ulcers, is down by 8% despite a huge

increase in activity. There's fantastic things happening in the

NHS. I think it is very important people like you focus on the bigger

picture. I understand there's good as well as bad. The Royal college of

fist EU fizzingsings says our N s - ment HS an overstretched.

Underfunded. Patients are waiting long are for the care they need. An

increasing number of people cannot safely leave hospital as the care

system is unable to cope. People's lives are being put at risk. The

Royal college of physicians. A very serious assessment of where the NHS

under Jeremy Hunt. . And what has Jeremy Hunt and this Government

being doing about that? I agree we need more doctors. Since I've been

Health Secretary we've 6,500 more doctors and nurses. Under the

funding issue... This is what I want to come to. Let's talk about that

for a moment. We had a very difficult period straight after

2010, after the financial collapse, the austerity period. Then, towards

the end of that period,s as soon as we were able to, as Conservatives,

because we are committed to the NHS. We want to be the party of the NHS.

Over the last three years, we're putting in an extra ?6.5 billion a

year. The result of that is you'ring an NHS with more funding, more

doctors, more nurses. I put it to you, not enough. You've a real

problem of pay in the NHS. Nurses who've had seven years of pay

freeze. The Royal college of nursing says nurses are having to go to good

bangs at the moment. There are complex reasons why people go to

food bangsment are there complex reasons why nurses have to do that?

The minimum a nurse can be paid in this country is ?22,000, ?27,000 in

London, assuming they do no anti-social hours, and in practice

most of them will. The average pay for nurses is ?31,000... More than

the national average. We do not agree with those numbers but they

are getting paid more than the national average. Is that enough

considering the brilliant work they do? I think many people would say

that we want to pay them more. I think they do an incredible job. If

you want more money, and you have asked me this before, if you want

more money to go into the NHS, this government recognises that we will

need to put more money into the NHS and social care system, the cause of

the pressures that we face. The question is, how do you get there?

There is a non-NHS issue which overshadows everything, which is

Brexit negotiations. Sorry to come to this but it is very important. If

we do not get a good Brexit outcome, and we do not protect the economic

recovery, the jobs that Sony people depend on, whose taxes pay for the

NHS -- so many people depend on. A bad Brexit outcome would be a

disaster for the NHS. Do people want a strong Theresa May doing those

difficult negotiations? We have 27 countries lined up, some of them

appear to think that for the EE you to survive, Britain has to fail. --

for the EU to survive. Let me interrogate that a little bit, in

terms of the good deal that you say this country needs to have for the

NHS to thrive, presumably that isn't including no Deal? Would no Deal

damage the NHS badly? We have been very clear that no deal is better

than a bad steel. I am asking whether no Deal, leaving without an

agreement, would damage the NHS, in your view? We would like a deal. We

think a deal, getting a good deal, would be better for the NHS and

economy and better for jobs, better for all of us, but we recognise a

bad deal would be bad for the country and bad for our long-term

future. We are not prepared to say that we will get a deal at any cost.

Sorry, with respect you are really saying that good is good and bad is

bad. I am asking if we do not get a deal is that bad for the NHS? You

are showing a lot of respect to be this morning, thank you for that,

but what I am clearly saying is that a good deal would be best for the

NHS. Obviously, a bad deal would be the worst possible outcome for all

public services. It would be bad for the country. The question is... I've

an idea for you that I picked up from the side of a bus! We are

paying, according to official figures, something like ?18 billion

over next few years, ?12 billion over the next few years, to the EU.

We could take money and spend it on the NHS! You could go to Philip

Hammond and say this is what we need for the NHS, I'm on the front line,

we should spend that and promised the British people that in the

election campaign? We are promising the British people a credible

promise that as this government has shown, an extra ?6.5 billion over

the last three years in the NHS, we will continue to put more money in,

we need a strong economy, we will not promise things we don't deliver.

My worry about some of the promises you hear from Labour is if you make

promises on the NHS and find you cannot deliver, on things like

nurses pay, what ends up happening is you had to lay off nurses from

our wards and you go straight back to all of the problems we had with

mid Staffordshire. You know about stroke care better than many people.

I think that stroke is a very good example about the good things that

are happening as well as challenges in the NHS. According to the OECD,

we have seen the biggest improvements in stroke care in this

country, saving thousands more lives. A fantastic thing, but what

we now have this new technologies which can save even more lives. What

I want is funding for the NHS to be able to do that new technology and I

know that with a strong Theresa May, battling for Britain against those

other countries, we have the best chance of getting that deal. It is

looking pretty cantankerous at the moment, it has been a very

cantankerous week on both sides? People would be thinking, what I do

not want is a punch-up but growing up negotiations with mutual respect.

I do not want to hear the Juncker saying one thing and Theresa May

coming back, thump, thump, thump? We all want that but there is something

very different about this election. In a normal election you choose the

Prime Minister for five years but now we are choosing a Prime Minister

who will do Brexit negotiations that are going to last for generations.

Before we come back to that... Sorry, before we come back to that

you are announcing big changes on mental health this week. Tearing up

the Mental Health Act, and I wonder why? You are going to appoint 10,000

new mental health experts, but you have sacked 6000 of these people in

the last few years, what is going on? This is a very important

decision that we are going to deal with, two real injustices. If you

have a child with severe mental health problems, and you find that

child, instead of being treated by the NHS, ending up in a police cell,

that is a terrible thing for the child and would probably make their

condition worse. It is also very bad for police. We want to stop that and

stop the fact that one in six of us have a mental health disorder. Can a

government stop that? We want to stop the fact that you can lose your

job for that and suffer from discrimination in a way that you

would not be able to suffer now if you were disabled or with other

conditions. We want to address this. Theresa May has an important

economic mission to get the best Brexit deal and protect Britain's

jobs and the economy. She said on the steps of Downing Street that she

has a social mission, she wants a country that works for everyone. Is

there a new money for this? In January we said that we were put in

an extra ?1 billion into these services... Coming from other parts

of the NHS, or new money to the NHS? New money going into the NHS, going

into mental health. It isn't just money but having those people who

deliver these jobs, which is why we need 10,000 extra professionals. You

spoke about Brexit several times, can I ask if the Cabinet understand

why and how the European Commission is trying to interfere and read our

election campaign? It is telling for everyone to see -- playing for

everyone to see. Because Brexit is a significant issue overshadowing

everything, it is a decision made by the British people. What people can

see is that Labour, the little Democrats and the SNP have all said

that they disagree with Theresa May's approach. What we are saying

is every vote for Theresa May is go to strengthen her hand in those

negotiations because they will say to the Europeans who are causing

some of those problems that the country is foursquare behind Theresa

May and getting the best deal for Britain. She said they were

deliberately interfering in this country's collection to produce

this? You'd think they are interfering to help Jeremy Corbyn

against the Prime Minister, is that the allegation? They did not have to

leak these reports to newspapers of the dinners that happened in the

middle of an election campaign. Why did they do it? It is the wrong

approach to negotiations. We want good negotiations and a good

outcome... The Prime Minister, I'm sorry, said this was about fixing

our election. How are they doing that, and in whose favour? You will

have too asked them why they chose to do that. I think the answer is

clear -- you will have to ask them. They are going to leak reports

undermining Theresa May's position... What the British people

know is for them to decide on this, not for people from other

countries... Are they trying to damage the Conservatives in this?

This needs to be the presumption... We are saying they should not be

doing that as it is an election for the British people. The commission

is trying to damage the conservative cause by intervening, and assist

opposition parties? We are saying that should not happen. Jeremy Hunt,

thank you for talking to us. And coming up later this morning,

Andrew Neil will be talking about the election and more

with the Shadow Justice Secretary, Labour's Richard Burgon MP,

Lib Dem health spokesman Norman Lamb That's the Sunday Politics

at 11am on BBC One. Next Sunday, I'll be

joined by the SNP leader and Scotland's First Minister,

Nicola Sturgeon. But for now, I'm sure his legions

of fans will be delighted that we are closing the show

with Rag n Bone Man. His album's gone Platinum

and he won the Critics' Choice Award at the Brits,

a title previously held by Adele. From his album, "Human",

here he is with Skin. Explorer Alice Morrison is taking

an epic 2,000-mile trek across the Sahara,

over the Atlas Mountains... ..and through ancient history.

I love touching history.