30/04/2017 The Andrew Marr Show

She's been Prime Minister since July, and there has been,

in effect, one single message - I'm Theresa, trust me.

She's gone to the country asking for her own mandate,

and there is just such a lot we still don't know.

This morning, in her first major television interview

of the campaign, the Conservative leader Theresa May.

The words 'strong and stable' won't I'm sure pass her lips once(!).

And it's been a bruising first campaigning week for Tim Farron,

In theory, he should be able to scoop up many of the 48%

And paper reviewers crossing the spectrum -

from Fraser Nelson, editor of The Spectator, to

And neatly sandwiched between, the Johnson who's jumped,

Rachel Johnson on why she's joined the Lib Dems.

Plus, Damian Lewis has been telling me how an ex-president

gave him advice on playing a bad-boy billionaire.

Barack Obama did say to me a few months ago, he said...

He said, I'm loving Billions, I love your character in it!

I love Bobby, the only problem is, hedge fund

But first, over to the newsroom and Katherine Downes.

Labour and the Conservatives will today focus their general

election campaigns on proposals to improve workers' rights.

Theresa May says the Conservative manifesto will include a commitment

to give the pensions regulator new powers to protect

workers' pensions and fine unscrupulous bosses.

And the Prime Minister will join Andrew later in this programme

This week marks ten years since the disappearance

of Madeleine McCann during a family holiday in Portugal.

Her parents have spoken to the BBC for a new programme focusing

on the current state of the investigation.

Gerry McCann talked about the impact of her disappearance

on her siblings, and the abuse the family had received

People are writing things that are simply just untrue.

Both of us realise that we've owed it to the twins to make sure

that their lives are as fulfilling as they deserve.

And you can see the full interview on Panorama

Pope Francis has called for the United Nations to do

more to ease tensions between the United States

and North Korea. Speaking to reporters on the Papal

plane, he warned that the crisis over North Korea's missile programme

risked causing a devastating war in which "a good part

Donald Trump is marking his 100th day in office with a rally

in the state of Pennsylvania. The President told supporters he had

been "very productive", listing achievements such

as revoking business and environmental regulations.

He repeatedly criticised the news media, and promised

there were "great battles" ahead in his presidency.

And the British heavyweight boxer Anthony Joshua is celebrating

after winning a thrilling title fight against the former

champion Wladimir Klitschko. The fight, in front of a crowd

of 90,000 at Wembley Stadium, was stopped in the 11th round.

27-year-old Joshua now holds the IBF, WBA and IBO

There are indeed is Anthony Johnson on the front of the Observer,

alongside a story picked up by almost everybody after the EU

summit, EU threatens Theresa May on trade talks and citizens rights,

things we will talk about later in the programme of course. The Mail on

Sunday, Theresa May has given an interview, which we will be talking

about shortly, I will wage war on pensions cowboys. She is talking

about people like Philip Green. The story of Madeleine McCann is an

almost every front page. The Sunday Times, Theresa May is living in

another galaxy says Jean-Claude Junker after an apparently difficult

meeting with Theresa May. We will be talking more about that. Donald

Trump after his 100 Days. On the Sunday Telegraph, Theresa May

rejects Brussels' demands. Lots to talk about. Welcome to you all.

Rachel, we will be talking about you in many ways later on. That start

with the sun, the story you have chosen. This is the sun's report of

yesterday's very rapid Brussels summit in which they decided in four

days to adopt their negotiating position, saddling the rights of EU

citizens, make sure there is no hard border in Ireland -- settling the

rights. And make sure you pay the divorce will. Pay up first before we

start to think about free trade. David Davis is admitting that this

is going to become a you know, a confrontational and extremely

difficult negotiations stopped law again, it underlined a deceitful

premise to this whole general election. Theresa May argued that

the more seats she gets the stronger the mandate to the EU, the EU

doesn't care how many seats they have all votes she gets. There is a

sense of denial, which the Conservative government is

promoting, which is that we are going to have strengthened

negotiating hand when we are up against the EU states. You know, why

would they care about the election? Fraser, do you think the number of

seats Theresa May wins will have an effect on the go shisha and Wes

Brown anybody who negotiates abroad, the you are asking what mandate they

have. Now she has no mandate, she doesn't, but loyalty of her own

Cabinet. Say she comes back with a landslide on a personal manifesto

dictated by her own chief of staff, she would go to Brussels and

somebody who is a very resting in Europe, a Prime Minister who is able

to come back and collect as many working-class vote is middle-class

vote -- a very rare thing in Europe. It would help. If you give Greece as

an example, they had an overwhelming majority to reject the EU deal, the

EU went, why do we care? Can I pick up one thing with Fraser? Presumably

the reason she wants a strong mandate is that whatever the deal

is, a bad deal, good Deal or no Deal, it will be voted through the

Commons without too much stress and opposition, is that the entire point

of having a mandate to this was wiped out like to follow that up to

five May. The money issue is the first issue that is coming up, it

does look as though Theresa May is going to have to agree some kind of

financial settlement early in the process. At the moment I would think

that kind of settlement would not get through the Conservative Party

in the House of Commons. The Foreign Secretary is against anything like

this happening. Theresa May herself has the dismissed it as a

negotiating position. We are in talks about talks right now. They

said until we talk about the divorce bill we are not going to talk about

trade. That is not Britain's understanding of how the talks

should be carried out. How much leveraged us Britain have to tell

the rest of the EU how the negotiations are going to take

place? The one weapon Theresa May has is, will she walk away if she

doesn't get what she wants. She used to say that no deal was better than

a bad deal. She has stopped saying that without. We will find out

shortly. That question is one that the Mail on Sunday put to her. Good

luck with your interview, because the Mail have got nothing! It is

insulting to call the general election and have nothing of any

substance to say on any domestic issue. It is quite interesting, she

talks about going to church, very nice. No hard Brexit or soft Brexit,

cliches. The problem is twofold, you are going to end up with a

situation, basically that Lyndon Crosby has implanted implant into

Tory MPs' brings... What she will do is she will avoid saying of anything

of substance and stick to lines that she will repeat over and over again.

The other point is, why would anybody trust a single word that she

says? She came into your studio over and over again saying that there

would be no snap election, there was. The Purlis she gave for giving

one was that she was being obstructed in terms of Brexit in the

Houses of Parliament -- the premise. That is a straightforward untrue.

National Insurance, do you remember that, in manifesto commitment. You

can't trust... Whatever policies, it you can't trust a word that she

says. Her approval rating is off the scale. Never has any Prime Minister

began being so liked in the country. People in Westminster might say, we

can't believe she promised you wouldn't do something and then she

did it, this is exactly true, she calculated she would get away with

it and she did. People think Jeremy Corbyn is such a bad alternative

that she can do whatever she wants, so far she is right. Lots of people

are changing their mind are moving all over the place. Rachel Johnson,

you wrote in the Mail on Sunday about your decision to leave the

Conservatives and moved to the Lib Dems. That caused a bit of trouble

in the family, I would imagine? Well,... What did the Big Brother

state? The large brother! That has got to remain a private

conversation. I have been completely consistent in my position on Europe.

I think this is a single issue election. On that single issue, this

is a protest vote that I'm making. I want to use whatever platform I have

is a freelance columnist and occasional appear on television and

draw attention to the fact that we could be going over the cliff on the

hard Brexit. And only one party out of all of our parties is offering

the voters a second look at the deal, whether it is a bad deal or a

good deal or a Theresa May Brexit. I think that is incredibly important.

As things stand, with a Tory election landslide, there is not

going to be another look. The Commons has evoked, but no veto over

the eventual deal. But if it goes to a second referendum, the country has

another go. I think that's crucially important. Have you actually joined

the party? I have actually joined the party. You can't stand as a

candidate because you have join too late. One paper thinks they might

want you at the London mayoral candidate, a second Johnson London

Mayor. I think that was my own paper making mischief to embarrass me, but

I don't know. She's not ruling it out, we can all see that! Why don't

you stand in Uxbridge?! There is a very, very good candidate in

Uxbridge who had a stonking majority when he was re-elected in 2015. You

said in your piece, Rachel, that'll brother Boris has offered a false

bill of sale on Brexit. I agree with that, and I said that to him. The

offer on the table, everything on the table before June the 23rd is

now off the table. Money back to the NHS to control of immigration, which

David Davis has said we need to have immigration, to the Single Market.

Business desperately needs us to stay in the Single Market, and we

are going to have to leave the Single Market. It is lose- lose. Can

I turn to the next big battle ground we haven't talked about, which is of

course Scotland. And Ruth Davidson has a big splash there. Fraser

Nelson, I think I read in your organ last week that Theresa May is now

very, very close to Ruth Davidson. They have each other on speed dial

and they are talking all the time, is that right? Ruth Davidson is

achieving miracles for the Conservatives in Scotland. In a poll

a few days ago, a third of Scots intend to vote Tory in the next

election, I never thought I would see that again. It has been 25 years

since the Tories had more than one seat in Scotland, now the polls

suggest they might get as many as 12 seats. Even my family's seat of

Murray up in the north-east where Angus Robertson, the SNP leader in

Westminster, that is now the top Tory target. You know, something is

going... What is happening in Scotland of course is the idea of

another referendum is filling unionists with dismay. But Jeremy

Corbyn is a bit ambivalent about this, as he is ambivalent about

Brexit. Ruth Davidson, somebody who only joined the Tories a few years

ago has soft, is able to say, look, if you don't want this referendum

only one party can stand up to at -- she has said. This has given them a

platform that I never thought they would have. Interesting in Scotland.

One danger is that we talked endlessly about process and polls

and who is go to do was all about me, and we don't talk about the

policies. You have chosen a spread on Labour policies in Talking about

substance in an election, honestly? Thug this is about workers' rights

-- this is about workers' rights. We have gone through the longest fall

in living standards since the Napoleonic Wars. That reduces the

burden on the taxpayer, lessening in work benefits. But workers would

have the same rights from day one, critically. As we know when it comes

to immigration, one of the big concerns we have is undercutting.

Labour are proposing measures to stop that from happening. What

Labour have to do, there are two extremes, no substance, sticking to

a message over and over, lots of ideas without a clear message.

Labour has to have clear, sharp messages that can cut through. You

were somewhat criticism of Jeremy Corbyn in the past. What do you make

of his performance in the first week so far? What is interesting, Theresa

May has avoided the general public. You have had stage-managed rallies.

It will be interesting to see if it cuts through, actually having a

grassroots campaign when you go around the country. You don't tell

all the workers you have to go home and then parachute in party

activists. It is a grassroots, natural campaign. As we know,

whatever you think about Jeremy Corbyn, he relishes campaigning and

getting outburst by the entire mainstream media have no, no, you

are rubbish to Jeremy Corbyn, is there a chance that they are wrong

and this is a man who can turn things around? Absolutely. I think

it is amazing how ever body think this election is so in the bag when

you think that all of the elections previously over the last three

years, we have had nothing apart from people like me being

confounded. I would be surprised if there are no surprises in this

election. I don't think Jeremy Corbyn will win, but the Tory

majority might not be in the 150 scale that some people are talking

about. It might be a lot more modest. The question is, what

happens to Labour after this? It could well be that Jeremy Corbyn

written soulful slots of the more moderate Labour MPs and has got an

even stronger hold -- rids himself. But so much is in play, who knows?

Even a Lib Dem revival can't ruled out.

Let's end by talking about politics elsewhere. Trump's 100 days. I'm

relieved, but it's been a chaotic 100 days. He said in an interview

last week that it is harder than he expected. Who would have thought

being a reality television star would be not as hard as being the

president of the United States. We are seeing sharp vacillations, I

think what's disturbing at the moment is he's returning to be white

nationalism, Stephen Bannon is being rehabilitated, he's now angrily

yesterday talking about the need to build the wall. Do we think the wall

will ever be built now? Because if he doesn't that his single biggest

campaign promise broken. I think what he will do in the next

congressional elections is der the Democrats to vote against. The idea

Mexico is ever going to pay for this wall, I mean we will see. There's

this brinkmanship over North Korea... Sorry, I will stop there. I

know you are going out to campaign, will you be knocking on doors and

talking to people, saying, I'm Rachel Johnson, vote Lib Dem? I'm

very tempted because we are Remain constituency. I'm open to

suggestions but I have to be careful. Phone in your suggestions,

polite suggestions only. Thank you for that.

Bright and cold - I guess you could say strong and stable

conditions with no sign of spring chaos.

But will next week bring good meteorological news

As we had through the next week, the weather is looking fairly dry and

settled but we have some rain in the forecast for the bank holiday

weekend. We are not all going to see it. As we had through the rest of

today is turning quite breezy wherever you are in the UK and there

will be some rain arriving in the south-west. We've already seen that

rain working in, into the afternoon. Towards the north-east of that, most

places fine and dry with temperatures up to 17 degrees. Quite

a brisk south-easterly wind blowing. That's the scene as we head into the

evening and overnight. Clear and breezy in the north, whereas across

the southern half of the country low pressure is still dominating,

showers, cloud, and fresher further north. Through the bank holiday

Monday, a call, easterly breeze alone across the north and Northern

Ireland. Through much of the weekend, a largely dry theme

continues with the best of the sunshine for western areas and

cooler conditions across the east. This election was supposed to be

the Lib Dems' great opportunity to rise from the dead and speak

for the millions who voted Instead, and rather bizzarrley,

Tim Farron's opening days were side-tracked by a row over

whether or not, as a committed Christian, he believed

gay sex was a sin. Before we turn to that issue,

there's a slight air of unreality hanging over your campaign at the

moment because you have said I want to be Leader of the Opposition and

you have said this is a chance for British people to change the course

of the country with regard to Brexit. Given the number of MPs you

have got, that's going to bit, isn't it? We can hopefully affect the

result of the general election coming, and let's not pretend the

Prime Minister has chosen this election for any other reason than a

cold, calculated desire to do what's right for the Conservative Party and

not the country so she expects some kind of coronation. Jeremy Corbyn

and the Labour Party or obsessed with fighting among themselves.

There is a vacancy for Leader of the Opposition, and I say that as this

is a historic moment for Britain, whether we choose to go over the

cliff edge of a hard Brexit or not, the Liberal Democrats are saying we

will be the strong opposition that Britain desperately needs. I want to

come onto the reality of how many seats you might get, but you've had

a very difficult first week over the gay sex issue and wasn't the big

problem with this the very voters you need to win over, the young

voters... You cannot choose what people ask you, but I choose to say

to British people this is the biggest choice we face in a

generation, we have this enormous issue about whether we leave the

single market, whether we go for a hard Brexit, whether we are forced

to accept a deal, and yet we have a Labour Party that is held Theresa

May's hand as they jump off a cliff edge towards a hard Brexit. For

people who voted Remain, and also for people who voted Leave, we are

offering you a chance. These were the same voters who remember the

tuition fees and they are still angry about that. I was one of the

people who voted against the tuition fees, but we are looking at

something that will cast Britain's future for 20, 30, 40 years. They

are the ones living with the consequences of a deal we don't know

the outcome of yet. So on tuition fees are you going to change the

policy? We want it to be a fairer system. We believe what you earn

afterwards should reflect what you pay. The real issue is how do you

produce and provide for young people a future that is brighter than the

one we will currently get? At the moment the Prime Minister has chosen

to have a general election on her terms because she assumed an

enormous majority and around the country there are very few people

who expect anything other than Theresa May to be in ten, Downing

Street on the 9th of June and the question is will she be properly

opposed? You have said also you wouldn't do a coalition deal either

with Theresa May or with Jeremy Corbyn. If you want to affect the

way the Government behaves after this election when it comes to

Brexit you want maximum leverage. You seem to be saying I will throw

away any possible leave I have. The most important thing for leader is

clarity. The Prime Minister is heading for a colossal coronation on

the 8th of June. Clarity point number two, let's not pretend there

will be a hung parliament... A colossal coronation? That is how it

looks to me. We are determined to turn the coronation she expects into

a contest that Britain desperately needs. The second reason we have

been clear we won't be having a coalition with Labour or the

tourists is because I want people to know that when they vote for us they

are voting for our planned to invest in social care, in education, and

make sure Britain does not had off the cliff edge of a hard Brexit. You

sound to me that at the beginning of this campaign you have in effect

given up. It is all Theresa May's, we might as well walk away. Jeremy

Corbyn appears to be fighting the next leadership election, the Labour

Party are fighting among themselves and have given up the job of

opposing the Government. Britain desperately needs a strong

opposition for the sake of democracy. You don't need to agree

with me on everything to agree with me that Britain needs a strong

opposition and the Liberal Democrats are determined to provide it. Then

you need to go from eight seats to 130 seats, it would be the biggest

change in the Liberal Democrats' fortunes in memory of any kind,

historians will be struggling to find any parallel. A lot of people

what you say will say this is a complete fantasy. Tim Farron might

want to believe it briefly, but nobody else will. I think I'm

probably one of the most self-aware politicians, I'm aware of what you

say but I'm also aware that the week ago the two main parties in France

came third and fifth. These are times when politics in the Western

Hemisphere at least has never been more unpredictable. It's also an

election Theresa May has chosen not to get on Monday, she doesn't need a

mandate, but it is an election nonetheless that could change the

course of British political history. If you cannot be ambitious at this

point to allow those millions of people who are appalled by the

direction the Prime Minister is taking us in, if you want to prevent

the calamity of the hard Brexit you have one option, it is the Liberal

Democrats. And to get to those seats you need lots of Metropolitan and

University towns, all of those seeds that voted Remain last time but also

a lot of seats in the south-west, which is the part of the country

that voted for Brexit. I remember an old liberal tradition when old

liberals in the south-west where Eurosceptic, right of centre, and

that tradition has more or less died in your party. You will remember I

resigned from the Liberal Democrats front bench ten years ago because I

am a bit of a Eurosceptic, I challenge people in power, the EU,

government, councils, but I believe Britain is better off in the

European Union and what the south-west is famous for is wanting

to be self-governing, to be independent, to be different from

those in Westminster who tell them what to do. The worst thing for the

west Country is to be a blanket of loop where the Tories take them for

granted. People around the country are beginning to realise the

Conservative majority is not in question but a Conservative

landslide will means they take you for granted wherever you live. We

reached today you have been talking to Tony Blair, can you tell us

anything about the conversation, whether there is some prospect of a

major realignment after this election? Several months ago I met

with Tony Blair at his request, it was only courteous to do so. I have

many on the record disagreements with Tony Blair, not least over the

illegal war in Iraq but I do admire him for his ability to put together

a small seat coalition that was able to win the general election and

defeat the Conservatives in 1997. I admire progressives who can win

elections because if you cannot win, you cannot change people's lives.

Can I come back to my original question, which is do you see

therefore beyond this election some major realignment in British

politics? I'm focusing on this election. Let's remember where the

progressive forces are at the moment. Everybody knows the SNP can

only gain one seat from the Tories, that is what they have

mathematically available to them unless there is an aggressive

foreign policy from Nicola Sturgeon. Everybody except Labour are going

backwards, so the only fight through which Theresa May is vulnerable and

where progressives have any chance of defeating Conservatives is the

Liberal Democrats. In the west Country, in the north-west and in

London, if you want a strong opposition the Liberal Democrats are

now your only choice. A pity you couldn't find a seat for Rachel

Johnson. She's a fantastic addition to the team, we picked the right

sibling. Would you like to see her standing as London mayor for the

Liberal Democrat cause? That is an election for three years down the

road and we will worry about that after the one we are fighting. Thank

you for talking to us. Now, coming up later this morning,

Andrew Neil will be talking to the former leader

of the Scottish National Party, Alex Salmond, and to the current

leader of Plaid Cymru, That's the Sunday Politics,

at 11am here on BBC One. Damian Lewis excels at playing

the most alpha of males. From Henry VIII in Wolf Hall

to Brodie in Homeland, Lewis has often shown us masculinity

at its most bruising. His return to the London stage,

however, will leave quite a few of his fans with their jaws

on the floor. In Edward Albee's absurdist play,

The Goat, Lewis plays an architect who falls in love with,

yes, a goat. But first we discussed his latest TV

hit, Billions, in which he portrays a ruthless hedge-fund bruiser

from the Bronx. You are all playing it safe

for the quarters so you have a shot Looking to mitigate your downsides

and protect your bonuses. The only currency that this firm

has, that any firm has these days, You break that, you

break the whole thing. As somebody who really enjoys

Billions, I think the criticism of Billions is that,

if this is a satire of the rich and powerful and morally bad these

days, it doesn't work I'm going to drop a name

here and I'm going to The President of the United States,

Barack Obama, did say to me a few months ago,

he said, "I'm loving Billions, I love your character

in it, I love Bobby. The only problem is hedge fund

managers aren't that cool." He has a swagger, they don't all,

they absolutely don't. There's a sense of them digging

their heels in and being the kid in the corner of the playground,

shouting, "But I'm right, They do bat against the tide,

and that's perhaps the one...slightly romantic thing

you can say about them. And what happens after that is then

up for discussion, we don't have I don't think this series

will last through seasons three, four and five,

without the core rotting. So Edward Albee, recently deceased,

great American playwright, but this is one of his

oddeset plays, The Goat. Just tell us about

the basis of the play. Well, the play just in its purest

form is about a man who has And we find him at a moment

when I think he is seeking His wife is heartbroken

by the infidelity first, and we have an exploration of love

and infidelity and the different And then on the other

level, there is his need What's so wonderful and brilliant

about the play is that you're asked as an audience member to engage

fully in the idea that he has had Because I thought afterwards,

this is clearly an adultery play. Albee has written

another adultery play. There are so many adultery plays,

and what he's done is made it interesting by twisting it

and making the other woman a goat. That's fair enough up to a point,

except the whole premise of the play is that this is real,

this is a real affair, Yes, I think it becomes a somewhat

absurdist affair at times, mind-bending at times,

because the clarity and sincerity with which he's had this affair

is real, and the most genuine way in which that can be performed by me

and then subsequently the horror and the heartbreak on the other side

of the argument from his wife, his son and his best friend

is what makes it such I noticed people coming out

of this play afterwards Albee is going through a kind

of revival, there's another Albee play up the road

going on at the moment. I wonder whether this

play would have been put In other words, this sense

in the West End there has to be a really big top A-star actor

or actress to bring in the punters. I'm not quite sure the entire

audience knew what they were getting "Let's go and look at Damian Lewis

in the West End, that will be fun." I don't know, well flattery

will get you everywhere. The thing to say about the West End

is its tremendous fun Plays with people much

more famous than me, that people are coming

for the first time. It feels a bit like part-concert,

part happening, where they will just be in the same space as someone

that they adore, and what can then happen can be remarkable

and exciting and challenging, as people, certainly

in a play like The Goat, people have a real experience

of theatre for the first time, and I think they go

away hopefully thinking, "Oh, my God, that theatre was rather

an amazing evening," beyond just It's been fantastic talking

to you, thanks so much. And you can catch The Goat by Edward

Albee at the Theatre Royal Haymarket in London's West End

until the 24th of June. Now a look at what's coming up

straight after this programme. Joined us from 10am when we will be

debating if it is right to refuse operations on the NHS to obese

people and smokers. With food banks busier than ever, is welfare reform

working? And last, actions versus worship. Is what you do or important

than what you believe? Siovas at 10am on BBC One.

And now I'm joined live in the studio by the Prime

Good morning. Can we agree that the one thing that voters deserve and

what you yourself have said is going to be a very important election is

no sound bites? Well, it is absolutely crucial, because this is

I think the most important election that this country has faced in my

lifetime. When people look at this election and when they hear what the

politicians are saying, they think about the national interest. That

should be what drives people when they go to vote. No slogans? We can

agree... Come on, Andrew! You know that we will all be talking as we go

through this election, everybody will be talking about what they

think is important. I will be talking about... Strong and stable

leadership! There is a re-dot-mac reason for talking about strong and

stable leadership, it is because this is the most important election

in my lifetime, it is about the future of the country on the

national interest. People can listen to that kind of thing and think it

is a bit robotic. No, when I talk about leadership, when I talk about

the strength of the Government for the future, I do it for a reason.

The reason is this - we are facing a moment of change in this country. We

are facing a moment when we have the opportunity to take this country

forward, to make it an even better place to live for people, their

futures, a more secure future for people. But part of that, part of

doing that, is about getting the Brexit negotiations right. And it is

important when we go into those negotiations, and we've already seen

some of the comments coming out of Brussels, which show that at times

these negotiations are going to be tough. In order to make sure that we

get the right result, the best deal for this country, the deal that's

going to work for people across the hall of this country, we need to

ensure that we have got a strong hand in this ago she should. And

that is what I'm talking about when I say to people, I want people to go

out and vote, I would everybody to go out and vote on June the 8th

because this is such an important election. Of course, I ask them to

vote from me, but I want to make sure that everybody goes and cost

their vote. I want to, to the Brexit issue in a moment. The other thing

is that you are standing for the first time, asking for your own

mandate in your own name. One of the questions people are asking, is this

going to be continuity David Cameron and George Osborne, or is the

Conservative Party taking a subtly different direction under Theresa

May? I served in David Cameron's cabinet, and as Home Secretary for

six years, I was very proud to serve with David. If you look at what he

did in..., he took a country from the brink of bankruptcy to a point

where we had growth, and when we see the deficit coming down by two

thirds. And it is because of the decisions that government talk. We

now see, for example, 1.8 million more children in good or outstanding

schools. Of course I am my own person... What is the difference?

The issues that I think we need to address in this country, first of

all of course the circumstances have changed. We do need to deliver an

Brexit, that is what people have asked us to do and that is what I'm

determined to do and get the best deal for this country. But also I

think that there are issues, long-term issues, that we need to

address. Long-term issues about the impact of the ageing population for

example. Long-term issues about what sort of economy we want to be in the

future. Meanwhile we have in this country a huge number of working

people, particularly public sector workers, who now have had seven

years of below inflation pay increases, a really tough freeze on

their pay. That can't go on in the next few years, or is it vote Tory

and get more public sector pay freezes? We have had to take some

tough decisions about the public sector, public spending. We did that

because of the state of the economy that we were left by the Labour

Party when we came in in 2010. Now we need to look to the future. And

we need to address the longer term issues that the country, the

longer-term challenges the country is facing. We need to ensure that we

are getting decisions in the public sector right, but also that we have

a strong economy. Because you are talking about pay and the public

sector, and you can only ensure that we're putting the money that we need

into the public sector if you've got a strong economy to pay for it. You

will only get that with strong government, you will only get that

with a government that understands the importance of growth in the

economy, and ensuring that Government is doing what it needs to

encourage that growth. Let's pluck out a specific example. Lots of lots

of young people do a job that I and you perhaps wouldn't do, they decide

to become nurses and give something back. According to the Royal College

of Nursing, they have had a 14% pay cut since 2010. We get stories from

the RCM of lots of ordinary nurses by the end of the week having to use

food banks because they can't afford to pay for food. That is not the

kind of country that you want to run, is it? I want a country that

works for everyone, not just the pill is about privileged few. It is

not working for these people. Look at what is happening in relation to

pay within the National Health Service, when you look at basic pay

together progression pay, they have an annual increase of around an

average 3% rather than just the 1% basic pay. But I come back to the

key question, which is, we have, and if you look at the National Health

Service and funding in the NHS, we are putting ?10 billion extra into

its top I'm sorry, Prime Minister, we have nurses going to food banks

at the moment, that must be wrong. There are many complex reasons why

people go to feed banks. And I want to develop an economy where, yes, we

have a stronger economy so that we can pay for the public services that

people need, but also we have an economy where we are creating secure

jobs and well-paid jobs and higher paid jobs for people. You what only

going to do that... They haven't got enough money to eat at the moment.

You were only going to be able to do this if you have a Government that

understands the importance of that strength in the economy. If you look

at the proposals that the Labour Party are coming forward with, they

all nonsensical proposals which simply don't add up. They would

actually lead to less money being available for the NHS, less money

being available for public sector pay and higher taxes on people is to

bike under the Conservatives, under your Government, the record number

of food parcels last year has been handed out. 1.2 million food parcels

in this country. You said on the number ten doorstep that you would

be up there for the ordinary working people. Those are people who are

really, really suffering. I have asked you, and your Government, if

people vote Conservative again, is that going to carry on? Your answer

seems to be guest. I haven't said that, Andrew. What I said, if I am

elected as Prime Minister, if a Conservative government is elected,

what we will be doing is working to create a strong economy in this

country, and economy which ensures that we are creating secure and

higher paid jobs for people. I want people to have security for their

future. But to do that, we need to get the Brexit negotiations right.

We need to ensure that we are to helping our economy. That is why I

have introduced in modern industrial strategy. It is about firms growing

and prospering, also about making sure that prosperity and growth is a

Rumpole of the country, and not just confined to certain parts of the

country -- is about the whole of the country. Working families, there are

lots of benefit cuts in the pipeline. If they were introduced 3

million families, 3 million households in this country would be

an average ?2500 worse off. Again, if they vote Conservative that is

what is going to happen. We have made changes to welfare as a

Conservative government. And there is a reason for doing that, which is

we want to ensure that of course there is a welfare system that gives

people support when they need that support. But I also want to see a

welfare assistant that is helping to encourage and see people getting

into the workplace -- a welfare system. Work is the best route out

of poverty. But these are working family. As we do that we need to

ensure that we are being fed working families, to the taxpayers who are

actually paying for those benefits so poor that we are being fair. We

have made a number of changes to the benefit system so that there are

more incentives in the benefit system for people to get into work,

but, yes, if we are talking about working families, what is important

is ensuring that we have the economy that is developing those higher paid

jobs, and also that we provide people with the skills to take those

jobs, and that's where what we are doing for example for young people

on practical skills is so important. Looking at what is happening in the

real economy, this sounds very much like continuity of austerities your

message. Do you ever pause and wonder whether you have got it

wrong? What I want to do is ensure that as we look at the circumstances

we are in at the moment, because things have changed and life will be

different in the future, we won't be in the European Union any longer. We

need to get the Brexit negotiations right. I want a strong hand in those

negotiations if I am Prime Minister. That we give you another example.

Can I just finished this point? It's about those Brexit negotiations, but

it is also about enthusiastically embracing the opportunities that

Brexit will give us as a country. An opportunity to develop our economy,

develop those higher paid jobs and to develop the school that people

need to take those jobs. Would that include an opportunity to properly

fund schools? In England, primary schools are facing a ?3 billion cut

by 2020. Lots of parents watching this programme are well aware that

parents are having to come in and fill in for classes where there

aren't enough teachers to be provided for, there are full sales

for books. Education in England in particular is badly underfunded --

there or a false ills. Is there any prospect of change if people vote

for Theresa May as Prime Minister? Let's look at what is happening in

education. We said we will protect the course cause budget, and we have

done that. In fact, the level of funding going into schools is at

record levels -- Bacall schools budget. It is something like four to

?1 billion this year. What we are also looking at. As the number of

pupils increases, the money of going into schools increases. But funding

is falling? We have protected the call schools budget. We're also

looking at introducing a greater degree of fairness in the way in

which schools are funded. Everybody across the political spectrum has

accepted that the current way that we allocate funding to schools is

unfair. We want to bring in a much fairer system of funding for

schools. We have made some proposals and consulted on them, and obviously

we will be responding with our final proposals in due course.

Mainstream schools have to make ?3 million in efficiency savings by

2019/20 against the background of growing pupil numbers under real

term reduction in funding per pupil, says the national audit the scum and

I say to you again you need rethink this. We need to have a fair funding

system that is ensuring the way money is allocated to schools is

fair and fair across the country. One of the reasons the Conservatives

have had to oversee ceremony cuts in so many areas is that under the last

government you made it clear -- you made a clear promise to never raise

income tax, VAT or national insurance. Are you going to repeat

that? We have no plans to increase the level of tax but I'm also clear,

I don't want to make specific proposals on taxes unless I'm sure I

can deliver on those. It would be my intention as Conservative Prime

Minister to reduce the taxes on working families, and if you've got

strong and stable leadership that's what you can do. You would accept

that tax lock was going too far? Your Chancellor thinks it tied his

hands too tightly. When people come to look at this decision on June the

8th, they will have a choice between the Conservative Party that has

always been a low tax party, that over the last few years has taken 4

million people out of paying contacts, and a Labour Party that is

about paying higher taxes for the future. The Conservative Party whose

intention is to reduce the taxes or Labour Party that wants to increase

the tax. Have you come to proposals to help on social care? If we look

at this issue on social care, there are short-term measures to take and

we have taken that. In the Budget with but ?2 billion extra into

social care, in the medium term we need to make sure good practice is

spread across the country. If you look at the late discharges from

hospital which is why hospitals interact with local authorities... I

sat there are three stages on this. The short, and longer term we need

to have a sustainable solution for social care. And yes, we have been

working on that sustainable solution, and these issues, an issue

like the impact of our ageing population is about the long-term

issue that I want to address for the future. If you want to know what's

in our manifesto you will have to wait until the manifesto was

published. Is the triple lock on pensions still safe? Under a

Conservative government the state pension will still go up every year

of the next Parliament. Exactly how we calculate that increase will be

for the manifesto, and you will have to wait for that to see what's in

it, but what we see already is that because of the actions taken under

Conservatives in Government on the basic state pension, pensioners are

?1250 a year better off and under a Conservative government the state

pension will continue to rise each year. What about the pension funds

which are collapsing, that will change, will it? Yes because this is

one of the injustices, we have seen examples, a limited number, where

workers have been really worried about the future of their pensions

because of the actions that have been taken so we would bring in new

rules and new powers for the pensions regulator so that in

certain circumstances where companies were being taken over,

there would be new powers for the regulator to make sure the issue

around people's future pensions was being addressed so they had

reassurance for the future of their pensions. Would a future Sir Philip

Green be prosecuted and possibly jailed for what he did? We would

also be introducing greater powers to take action against individuals

if what they were doing was about effectively trying to destroy

people's pensions for the future. Let's talk about Brexit. You said

that no deal was better than a bad deal in your Lancaster house speech,

do you stand by that? Yes, I do, but I also think it's important that we

go in there with the strength of hand in negotiations to get a good

deal for the British people. That's what I want to do and that's why I

say every vote for me and my team on June the 8th will strengthen my hand

in those negotiations. You have now had a private conversation with Mr

Juncker and the rest of the team and it doesn't seem to have gone

terribly well because Jean-Claude Juncker said to Angela Merkel after

meeting you," it went very badly, she is in a different galaxy, based

on that meeting no deal is much more likely than finding an agreement".

Wasn't that bad? I am not in a different galaxy but I think what

this shows, and other comments from European leaders show, is that there

will be times when these negotiations will be tough and

that's why you need strong and stable leadership in order to

conduct those negotiations and get the best deal for Britain. I'm

confident you can get a deal. The trade Commission has been very clear

she thinks we will get a trade deal. We have also seen the 27 standing

shoulder to shoulder on the question of wanting a deal on money before

they will even talk about trade and other issues and they made that very

clear this weekend. The Luxembourg Prime Minister is talking about

between 40 and ?60 billion worth of deal to be sorted out. If you win

this election and get a big majority, can I put it to you the

first thing you will do is go over there and sign the cheque. They do

want to start discussions about money. I'm very clear that at the

end of the negotiations we need to be clear not just about the Brexit

negotiation, how we withdraw, but also how our future relationship

will be. These negotiations will be tough. Are you prepared to agree on

the money before you agree on everything else? I want to agree on

a trade deal and a withdrawal. What they say you must agree on that

first. If you look at what is being set in the guidelines, they say they

want to start the discussions on a number of issues. There are things

we absolutely agree on should be early in those discussions. The

position of EU citizens in the UK and UK citizens living in those 27

European countries. We absolutely agree that should be early in the

discussions. They also agree we should be discussing the development

of a special partnership for the future so there is much which we

agree on. It is critical to this issue and to the election campaign,

you are saying you will not agree to pay a large bill to the EU until the

entire negotiations are finished, yes or no? And the EU itself has

also said nothing is agreed until everything is agreed. You mentioned

EU citizens, now if I was somebody watching this programme and perhaps

I was married to a French or German citizen, very worried about their

status in the future. Jeremy Corbyn has said if I've become Prime

Minister on day one I guarantee their status, why can't you do the

same? I believe it is important I have a care for UK citizens

currently living in the 27 countries, remaining countries of

the European Union. That's why I say this is about reciprocity, it's

about us... I want to be able to guarantee new citizens living here

their rights and status but I think it's important we ensure UK citizens

living in Europe have their rights and status guaranteed as well. There

is goodwill there. Sorry, this is an important point. If you look at my

Article 50 letter, I was very clear I believe the rights of use sits and

is here and UK citizens in Europe should be an early discussion, an

early agreement for us and if you look at the guidelines that exactly

what the EU 27 have agreed as well. There is goodwill there, I believe

we can give that reassurance to people at an early stage. Do you

believe people in houses worth more than ?5 million are paying their

fair share of taxes? Should we ask them to pay more? The top 1% of

people paying tax are actually paying a higher burden, a higher

share of tax under us, a Conservative government, than they

did under any year of a Labour government. But going ahead? It's

rightly make sure the tax system is balanced. I think you can see... Let

look and see what we have done... We haven't got time for history I'm

afraid. I think our record is important. We have taken formerly of

people out of paying income tax, and 30 million people have seen attacks

cut. I have been talking to Tim Farron about his attitude to gay

sex, you are also a Christian, do you believe gay sex is a sin? No.

And do you believe what happened to Tim Farron there is a judgment of

the aggressive mood being imposed on Christians in this country that

other people don't have to face? I believe anybody who is putting

themselves for election, who was asked in the public to trust them,

is bound to get a whole range of questions from a whole range of

different groups. Some people think the reason you called this election

is that 30 Conservative candidates and/ or Asians are under

investigation from the Crown Prosecution Service and could be

facing charges soon, was that issue discussed at all... That is not the

reason this election has been called. Let's be clear, in relation

to that issue local spending was properly declared. The Conservative

Party did make an administrative error on its national spending, as

did other parties. We have paid our fine and I would expect of the

parties to do the same. This CBS action, should they be able to

stand? The CPS will make independent decisions on whether it takes action

on individuals. What I am clear about is that this election is about

the national interest, it's about the future of our country and that's

why I say to people I want to see everybody voting. And you have

raised the question of Jeremy Corbyn. Can I put it to you that

when it came to one of the most important votes we have had in

recent times on the Iraq war, whatever you think of him he was on

the right side looking at history, and you were on the long side, you

voted for the Iraq war that had so many disastrous consequences, and he

did the unpopular thing and stood against it, on that at least he was

right and you were wrong. If we look at the choice in this election, the

choice people will be making is who do they want to see as Prime

Minister? Who do they want to see leading the Brexit negotiations and

defending this country? Jeremy Corbyn has shown he's not prepared

to stand up for defence of this country and his economic policies

don't stand up. If you knew then what you know now, would you have

voted for the Iraq war? That is a hypothetical, you can only vote at

any point in time on what you know, and I voted the way I thought was

right. But he was right on that and you were wrong, isn't that the

truth? I voted for what I believed was right when the vote came to

Parliament. If we look ahead there will be tough decisions to be taken,

I think it's important we have a Prime Minister willing to defend

this country, stand up for the defence of this country, Jeremy

Corbyn has shown he's not willing to do that with economic policies that

will take this country forward. Thank you, Prime Minister, you

covered a lot. And that's all we have

time for this morning. We'll be back same time next week

with more on the election, as well as one of our most beloved

actresses, Imelda Staunton.