Nicola Sturgeon The Andrew Marr Show

Scotland's First Minister and leader of the Scottish Nationalists made it

absolutely clear at the start of the campaign for cheap product was all

about, independence was a part of the election and she is with me now.

Nicola Sturgeon, and that independent Scotland will children

be better able to read and write than they are now. Regardless of

whether or not Scotland becomes independent, in Scotland right now

we are focusing on improving education standards. Look at the

education system, we've expanded early years education, have a new

school curriculum in place praised by the OECD, record numbers of young

people leaving school with higher passes and advanced higher passes

and going into further education on training or employment. We

identified a particular issue with literacy and numerous and we are

determined to accelerate the progress into using the attainment

gap, we have a massive programme of reform under way to do that. On

literacy, your record is terrible, your own government figures show

among 13 and 14-year-olds, less than half are not performing well in

reading and writing, that's gone down from 70% in a few years under

the SNP. I've been very open that's not good enough but to put it into

context, we have a survey that measures pupils in the second year

of secondary school but measures than against the standards they are

expected to achieve in the third year of secondary school and we have

other information that shows by the time young people are in the third

year more than 80% are reaching the required level but we have a new

curriculum in place, the curriculum for excellence praised by the OECD

but they've made recommendations to us about how we improve teaching of

literacy and numerous. Right now we have the national improvement

framework, attainment challenge and an attainment fund putting in extra

resources to education. Frameworks and challenges and funds, do you

know what is going wrong? We've had advised the new curriculum for

excellence which I'm sure you're familiar with is about educating

young people to be good citizens, do not just absorb facts and figures...

I'm coming to accept the point, to encourage young people not just to

absorb facts and figures but analyse it and make sense of the world they

live in. It's the right thing to do but we have had advice we need to

have or are they focus within the curriculum on literacy and numerous

and that's what we are doing. We've introduced benchmarks for the

teaching of literacy and numerous, I'm interested... Benchmarks and all

the rest of it but under the SNP things have got worse and quite

dramatically. I would challenge that in terms of the general performance

of education, I look at it... On literacy, personal question. I'm not

denying that in terms of literacy and numerous and telling you for

doing to address it and use a frameworks and benchmarks, I look at

the debate in England about falling budgets in schools, we've taken a

decision to increase the budget schools have I100 and ?20 million,

money going directly to headteachers giving them the ability to invest in

measures they think will improve literacy and numerous it. You are

700 teachers short. Teacher recruitment is a challenge not just

in Scotland but in many countries and we are increasing teacher

intake, the DTC in Scotland is thinking of different ways to bring

different people into teaching, trying to encourage retired teachers

to come back into teaching and I've been frank about that. Would you pay

them more? We have negotiations with teaching unions about pay and

conditions of teachers, that's one of the issues we've always got to

keep in mind. But we need to be both frank about the challenges we have

an education, some of them not unique to Scotland but we have to

recognise the fundamentals of Scottish education in many respects

are very strong and I repeat, we have record numbers of young people

coming out of schools with higher and advanced higher passes and going

into what we call positive destinations. I'm focused on

improving these areas we need to improve also making sure we don't do

a disservice to teachers and pupils across the country is seen

everything about Scottish education is bad because emphatically it's

not. Let's return to what you said in the independence blueprint in

23rd team about the OECD rankings, you said Scottish pupils are

performed the OECD average in reading and science, the latest

results show we have halted a period of relative international decline

since 2000, can you tell me what happened? We've seen that situation

not as good as we wanted to be, Andrew, are not going to sit here

and deny that, we have a study and SS L M, a study the latest version

of which was published last week come it's a Sample survey and it

looks quite small numbers of pupils, one of the things we've done is

introduced the national improvement framework... Didn't challenge the

rankings when they are going well, you can hardly challenge them when

they are going badly. I didn't challenge them. I said this many

times before, I know how important a good education has been to me in my

life and I want every young person in Scotland to have the best

education and the vast majority of young people in Scotland get the

best of education but there are areas we need to do better and I'm

not shying away from that. Under the SNP something serious is gone wrong,

Scotland used to be one of the best educated countries in the world. In

many respects it still is. You have the power to change this and things

are going badly. On that is the numerous things are going badly but

in many other measures of Scottish education is not true, we are not

going backwards. Literacy and numerous ER important. You are

trying to conduct this interview on the basis I'm being defensive, I'm

not, I absolutely readily accept the areas we need to do better, that's

why we've put effort into the initiatives and reforms we are

taking forward and the point I was going to make earlier which I didn't

get the chance to finish is that we are actually introducing more

transparency so I can be held more accountable so instead of Sample

surveys like the ones we have we will have information on every pupil

in Scotland at the required levels, broken down, not just by local

authority but school by school, there'll be no hiding place any

politician. You said not so long ago you want to be judged by this Andrew

Nick Wood be on the line. You were looking a little like Mary Queen of

Scots. I don't wish to be Mary Queen of Scots, I've been First Minister

for two and a half years and I said when I became First Minister that

this would be the defining priority of how many years I am First

Minister and I hope that so why the time we are at the next Scottish

election I want to see improvement and we are talking about literacy

and numerous, the other big challenge rehab in Scotland which is

not unique to Scotland is to close the attainment gap between the

richest and young people and we are very focused on that. On some

measures, we don't measure it in exactly the same way, you and I have

had the discussion about University entrance before and the measurements

are different in Scotland and England but I'm not sitting here

wanting to make comparisons, I want Scotland to be the best on its own

terms. Let's move another aspect of domestic policy, is a discount

versus have to use the bags because of poor pay? Yes. That's happening

in Scotland according to the RCN spokesperson, it's happening in

Scotland and you have the power of the Scottish Parliament to set

public sector pay you can raise taxes and pay Scottish nurses

properly. We have work to tackle, I am going to set out what happens

with nursing pay and it's the same in the rest of the UK, we have the

independent pay review body and makes recommendations, the Scottish

Government on like the Westminster government has accepted those

recommendations, we have had a period of pay restraint in the

public sector because of the determination to detect... They've

lost 14% in terms over the past period and you can correct this. We

will continue to work through the pay review body to make sure nurses

get the pay they deserve, I except... Your post higher pay for

nurses. We didn't... The Royal College of Nursing is talking about

strike action. Let me set this up, we work through the pay review body,

we've agreed with the unions we will commission research but there is

another important point, because of the action we took in Scotland on

low pay and because of the commit and we gave nurses would always get

the entitlement to progression, a newly qualified nurse in Scotland is

paid ?300 more than a newly qualified nurse in England, somebody

at the bottom level of the agenda for change of smaller than that, we

protect the nurse bursary and for not asking students to pay tuition

fees so it's tough for nurses out there but we have done far more than

any other government in the UK to try and protect the pay of nurses.

You have said that independence is at the heart of this choice and you

have talked a lot about material changes. You have watched the way

that public opinion is going in Scotland. If the Conservatives move

ahead and you fall back in this election, isn't that the material

change? Let's see who wins the election in Scotland? Can I set out

my position? This is important. For me it is a question of whether at

the end of the Brexit process, Scotland get a choice about their

future. The position of the Tories and UK wide, no matter how badly

Brexit negotiations go, people have got to like it or lump it and I

don't agree with that and people in Scotland should have another choice

about their future. After we have left or before we have left? At the

end of the process, when the terms of Brexit are clear and people can

compare that with the terms and applications of independence. In

this election, there is a more immediate priority and opportunity

for Scotland and that is making sure our voice is heard in the Brexit

negotiations. That is an important point. There is a lot of concern

even among some people who voted to leave that we are heading down the

road of a very extreme Brexit. The Scottish Government previously

published proposals that would have accepted leaving the EU but

protected our place in the single market, and the Prime Minister

dismissed those proposals out of hand. She thought it was

impractical. She didn't look at them seriously. This election gives the

Scottish people the chance to give democratic legitimacy to those

proposals. Whether you voted leave remain, whether you will yes or no

in 2014, if you vote SNP, you are strengthening my hand to make sure

Scotland's voices heard in these negotiations and we don't sacrifice

jobs and our economy and we can arrest the case with Scotland's

place in the single market. A lot of SNP voters voted to leave the EU.

You have said in a past that Scotland must be a full member of

the EU after independence and it has been suggested by some people that

EFTA would be all right. Our position continues to be that we

want Scotland to be a full member of the European Union. We don't want to

go into the Euro and no member of the EU can be forced into the Euro

and Sweden is one example of that. What we did at the end of last year

would recognise... The majority of Scotland voted remain and some voted

leave and Scotland voted differently to England, though we try to see if

there was compromise ground and we put forward proposals that would

have accepted that we were leaving the EU as part of UK that try to

protect single market. And I ask you, yes or no, with independent

Scottish membership EFTA be unacceptable, mice in these

circumstances, yes or no? My position is that I want Scotland to

be in the EU. If we have an independence referendum, we would

set out the process of regaining or retaining EU membership depending

where we are in the Brexit process. It might be that we have a phased

approach to that by necessity. EFTA first? By necessity. We have got to

stipulate that at the time because there are still many uncertainties

behind the Brexit process. In this election, if we want to have a

chance of protecting our place in the single market, on which 80,000

Scottish jobs depend, vote SNP to strengthen our hand. You got that

line out at the end. Thank you for joining us in the studio in London.

The 2017 general election is upon us. Everyday BBC Parliament will

have the key speeches from the main players in full and uncut. As well

as all the big campaign events. Don't miss a single moment on BBC

iPlayer. Pure politics from UK's only dedicated politics channel.