11/06/2017 The Andrew Marr Show

Almost every general election ends with an answer.

Can Theresa May now really command a government?

And has Labour's left-wing adventure reached its climax,

Fresh from one of the most remarkable campaigns

in modern British history, though he didn't actually win,

This morning, he's reported as believing that he can imminently

And as Theresa May lurks, wounded and alone in Downing Street,

having sacrificed her key advisers, Sir Michael Fallon, is here

The biggest question remains Brexit and what this result

And I'll be speaking to that veteran Tory Remainer, Lord Heseltine.

Reviewing the news, that hard-bitten newspaper hack, George Osborne.

And staunchly pro-Theresa May Toby Young of the Spectator.

Plus, from the Guardian, a fully re-educated

All that after the news, read this morning by Ben Thompson.

The Democratic Unionist Party says it has had positive talks over

a possible deal to support a Conservative minority government,

but that no final agreement has yet been reached.

Late last night, both the DUP and Downing Street

released statements revealing that further discussions

In a moment, we'll speak to our news correspondent, John Campbell,

But first, let's speak to our political correspondent,

Confusion overnight. Is there or isn't there a deal? They're

absolutely is confusion over the status of the deal. Last night we

heard from Downing Street there had been an agreement on the principles

of the deal for the DUP is to support the Conservative government

on a confidence and supply bases, to vote with the Conservatives on key

parliamentary votes like the budget. Then we heard from the DUP who said

talks had been positive but they were ongoing next week. Downing

Street issued a clarification that it was the case that the agreement

was still being finalised. Where we are this morning is that the talks

are very much in progress but certainly the confusion surrounding

the status of the deal, Theresa May's vulnerability, reports in the

papers this morning Boris Johnson is preparing to launch a leadership

bid. He has strongly denied it is the case and said Theresa May has

his 100% backing. Jeremy Corbyn thinking that is all to play for. He

said, I can be Prime Minister. Suggestions Labour is preparing to

vote down the Queen's Speech. That will be the first big test for

Theresa May's government, if she manages to agree the deal with the

DUP. A tricky time for her while this deal is still in motion.

Over now to Belfast where we can speak to John Campbell.

How is it being seen where you are? I was talking to Unionist voters on

the streets yesterday and they were delighted. They think it gives the

union greater power than it has had in a long time. The flip side of

that is that nationalists are concerned. Sinn Fein, the main

nationalist party, they issued a statement saying previous attempts

to prop up Conservative governments failed. They perhaps hope it will be

a transitory arrangement and one which could end in tears for the

DUP. They have said it is time for the Irish government to make its

voice heard and stand up for the rights of all citizens in Northern

Ireland. It is worth thinking about what the Good Friday Agreement says

about the role of the British Government in Northern Ireland. It

underpins all politics here. It says the rule of the government should be

one of rigorous impartiality. You might ask, how come the Government

be rigorously impartial when it is completely dependent on the DUP for

its existence? Cross-party talks aimed at reviving power-sharing in

Northern Ireland are going to get under way tomorrow. The Conservative

Secretary of State has chaired the talks till now, but how can he be an

impartial chair if he is relying on the DUP, one of the participants in

the talks? Thank you both. Scotland Yard has released pictures

of the fake suicide belts worn The officer leading

the investigation says it's the first time he's seen the tactic

used in the UK. Last night, a week on from

the attack, people visited bars and restaurants in the area

in a show of unity and resilience. Officers say they were designed to

cause maximum fear and people who confronted the attackers would have

thought there was a real risk they could be caught in an explosion. As

part of their investigation, police have spoken to 262 people from 19

different countries, 78 are described as significant witnesses.

Three people were killed as the attackers drove across London

Bridge, five were stabbed to death in Borough Market. They were

remembered last night in a show of defiance people flock to the bars

and restaurants in the area. Still reflect upon it, obviously, and

think about those people it happened to, but it does not stop me from

coming out. You cannot not think about what happened. Wondering about

what the mood would be like. But it is celebratory and fun. We stick

together, that is what we do. That is what London is all about. In

pubs, people are being encouraged to donate to the fundraising drive from

the Red Cross to raise money for the victims of the attacks in London and

Manchester. It is right that on the anniversary of what happened last

weekend, the tragic events, that Londoners can go out and do what

they do. Repairs are continuing to buildings damaged in the hunt for

the killers. The police cordons have now been lifted, Southwark Cathedral

is reopening. An effort to bring back a sense of normality to an area

that has experienced so much suffering. Simon Jones, BBC News.

You are up-to-date. The Observer is very excited,

discredited, diminished. The May's premiership in peril. The Sunday

Telegraph, not that much better for her. In office, but not in power, it

says. A jibe famously used against John Major. The Sunday Times, five

Cabinet ministers urge Boris to topple May. The Mail on Sunday goes

with Boris set to launch bid to be PM as May clings on. Boris Johnson

has replied, in a word I cannot use on a Sunday morning, they are

roughly spherical and there are two on them -- of them. May's toxic

aides resigned, the Sunday mirin newspaper has the interview with

Jeremy Corbyn and it has the hideous Top Gear crashed from which Richard

Hammond walked out of unscathed. I think that Boris's denial, using the

word you just referred to, it is plausible. I do not think he is

preparing to launch a leadership bid. It would look opportunistic.

Too cack-handed? Within the party, there seems to be an appetite for

doing what they can to support Theresa May in making sure she

manages to stay on because if there was a leadership election within the

Conservative Party, in all likelihood, there would be another

general election and the risk would be that Jeremy Corbyn, having done

much better than expected in the last general election... He could

win this one? He could. No one wants to risk that and most of them do not

want to risk Brexit either. I do not think there will be a

leadership challenge. In time. Is there a real worry that looking at

the arithmetic in the House of Commons, Brexit cannot be delivered

in the form Theresa May wanted? It depends how closely the MPs stick to

the manifesto. More than 80% of the British population have voted for

two parties who want to take us out of the single market, the customs

union and they want to end freedom of movement. There was ambiguity,

front benches song from different hymn sheets, but they have

definitely said they want to end freedom of movement. Only 11% of the

British public actually voted for the pro-remain parties, the SNP and

the Lib Dems. It does not seem there is a mandate for different kinds of

Brexit. No immediate coup, but there was blood in the water. Theresa May

is a dead woman walking. It is how long she will remain on death row.

We will know very shortly. In other words, we could get to the middle of

next week and it all collapses for her. If it does not, and I agree

with Toby, many Tory MPs do not want a leadership contest right now, it

will be delayed. Be no doubt, look at this weekend, the Leader of the

Opposition coming on the programme as a victor and the Prime Minister

who was supposed to have won that election, she is in hiding. It

speaks volumes about what has gone on. Was that a small pot of you

enjoying being a newspaper editor? -- part of you. If George Osborne

had stayed in the House of Commons, it could have been you! I feel well

out of it and I have enjoyed editing Evening Standard in the general

election. I have been reading stories about Boris Johnson running

a leadership campaign four years. He is in a permanent leadership

campaign. I am not sure it qualifies as news. You might be saying it was

your London Evening Standard that won it, that killed her. Your paper

has been poisoned against Theresa May, wonderful to read. I relished

it with total joy. Day after day. Attacks on Theresa May and look at

the result. What is interesting to me, and I know she sacked you, but

why do you hate her so much when she and Philip Hammond are following

your economic policy down to the last minute? 12 billion cuts of

benefits, continuing cuts on health, education. Let us look at reducing

the size of the state in the red book on the same as yours, right

down to 36% of GDP, they are George Osborne fans. I don't hate them. The

Evening Standard will attack left and right, it will... Some of the

other newspapers, frankly, have dug themselves into positions. The

Evening Standard can see there are challenges both to what Jeremy

Corbyn and the Labour Party are saying and to what Theresa May and

the Conservative Party are saying. I completely reject it, you read our

editorials, look at the news coverage at the top I read them with

delight! I am speaking and the paper is speaking for a consistent view,

Britain should be open, optimistic, outward looking to the world,

socially liberal, pro-business, economically liberal, and that is

the position I advocated in government and it is the position I

advocate as a newspaper editor. The view is you have become the

honourable member from that county of embittered shire. The only

newspaper editor that went against me, the majority of what the readers

would do... Precisely because these questions have to be asked in

Britain today and I think there is a big role for the media in doing what

the country needs which is providing strong analysis, hard facts and I am

someone who spent years getting the Conservative Party back into office,

winning in seats like Bath, Brighton, Oxford West. I am angry,

like many Conservatives, that we have gone backwards, we seem to be

on doing the good work of the last ten years.

And you think she is a dead woman walking. What did she say to you

when she sacked you? She said I needed to get to know my party

better. She has got to know the party pretty well. Lots of wonderful

long reeds in the papers today. Tim Shipman. I think he is the guide you

go to to find out what has been going on and I should point out that

I am a great fan of the political cartoons, I have brought a great

cartoonist to the Evening Standard. A fantastic cartoonist, this graphic

picture of poor old Mrs May and Jeremy Corbyn relieving himself on

her, the tradition of Gil Rae in the 21st century. Tim has the inside

recriminations that have now erupted inside the campaign and you can see

what is left of the Mayites trying to blame Lynton Crosby. They are

professionals will stop the idea they are responsible for Mrs May's

failure to communicate or the disaster of the manifesto, it

strikes me as trying to blame other people for your own mistakes. And in

the body of that, there is talk about the Boris Johnson machine

getting going, it is always going, as you say. Permanent leadership

campaign. Also attacks on David Davis, perhaps a more plausible

future leader. Saying he was responsible for calling the

election. Probably unfair. I have been in my adult life and adviser

and a front line politician and you cannot just blame the advisers. In

the end, the only person who decides to have a general election is the

Prime Minister and the only person who decides what is in the manifesto

ultimately is the Prime Minister. I am all for making sure you have got

the best team around you and there have been some changes in Downing

Street and very smart new chief of staff, Gavin Barwell, widely liked

across the Conservative Party including by me. I thought it was

interesting, Tim's piece, it ends up reminding us when Charles I, another

history graduate, Charles I fired Strafford, thinking it would keep

the dogs at bay and it didn't and... Back to death row. What made the

Tory party cross was when Theresa May return to Downing Street and

never mentioned the many good MPs who had lost seats, Simon Kirby,

others, the Tory Party, I was watching as a Conservative Party

member, absolutely furious there was no acknowledgement of the suffering

and loss that had been caused. Let's go to the Daily Mirror

interview with Jeremy Corbyn. A remarkable piece. Indeed it is,

there is a man who is delighted with the result. All around there are

people, myself included, eating humble pie who thought he could

never do it. But he has not done it, and he clearly thinks there might be

an election in a year, but he could be in number ten. He suggested

putting down an alternative Queens speech and defeating the

Conservative Party in the House of Commons quite soon, which seems on

the numbers had to pull off. Yes, it is hard to pull off. I am sure he

would make a terrific queen's speech. But he has acquired a new

confidence and he swept through this election looking cheerful, in

control, and campaigning is what he does best. It was the opposite of

Theresa May's Glam bucket performance. Toby Young. There is

triumphalism on the part of Jeremy Corbyn and labour and it sticks in

my crop. I bet it does. Theresa May and the Conservatives got 13.7

million which is a higher percentage of the popular vote and a higher

number of voters. It is almost as if Tranmere Rovers were beaten 4-3

instead of losing 4-0 and they are celebrating as if they won the FA

Cup. A lot of these numbers are dodgy to say the least, it is a

bigger electorate, nevertheless your point is taken. Polly, I want to

move on to the DUP. The imminent news is about this deal with 330,000

voters for the DUP in total and now they will have to hand over the

British Government. Extraordinary that the Conservative Party is in

hock with the Orange order. A lot of these DUP members belong to the

Orange order, utterly disgraceful. The Good Friday Agreement, lodged

with the UN, commits the British Government to be totally neutral.

The Secretary of State for Northern Ireland is the arbiter and instead

they are in hock to one side. How were they ever put this back

together again? What short memory, how easily the troubles could be

started again and how easily this could be unpicked. It is most

irresponsible. Topping about short memories, Gordon Brown in 2008 in

order to get the terror bill through, relied on the support of

the DUP and made a deal with the DUP. Not in order to stay in power.

You spent a lot of time with David Cameron, quote, detoxifying and are

you concerned when you see them getting so close to a party that has

got very strong views on gay marriage and women's rights? Is this

dangerous? I reject all of those fees personally. The Tory party does

not have any options because no other party will deal with them. It

is different to 2010 when I was negotiating a coalition with David

Cameron when we had the Liberal Democrats as a partner. But there is

a big difference between the coalition and a supply and

confidence arrangement. We welcome onto that. In 2010 we wanted a

permanent arrangement that would secure a majority on everything we

brought to Parliament. Supply and confidence means you are at the whim

of every vote and what the DUP decides to do. The budget is not

agreed by the DUP. All they will do is make sure the government takes

over every year and you have to negotiate every line and item in the

budget with them. If they want to pull their confidence they can do

it. It is a very unstable arrangement. We are running out of

time and we need to talk about Ruth Davidson. Ruth Davidson... She is a

source of instability. She is not a source of instability, she is the

heroine of a party. If she had not won those seats, they would not be a

Conservative government and Jeremy Corbyn would be in Downing Street.

But the interesting thing about her if she is now flexing her muscles

and the most significant thing she is flexing their muscles on is

Brexit. This article in the Sunday Telegraph draws our attention to the

fact she has said she now wants to prioritise the economy and free

trade over immigration in the negotiations around Brexit. I

completely agree with you. If that is her view, I do not think that is

a majority now in the House of commons for the kind of hard Brexit

that basically is a route to political ruin for the Tory party,

but more importantly is the real roots to trouble for the country as

a whole. If the Ruth Davidson ands of this world are starting to flex

their muscles, that is in my view only a good thing. It is possible,

as George says, there is not any longer a majority in the House of

commons for the type of Brexit Theresa May wanted. If that is the

case, it will be because MPs are not going to do what they said they

would do about Brexit in the manifesto. In both Labour and

Conservative manifesto is a committed to ending freedom of

movement. It will be difficult for the Remainers... The DUP and Brexit.

The DUP need a deal because they are committed to not having a hard

border with the Republic of Ireland. Theresa May's central claim which is

no deal is better than a bad deal is not deliverable because the DUP will

never allow no deal. It was Theresa May's strategy to try and secure as

soft border. It is blown apart because there is not a Parliamentary

majority for no deal. This is fascinating, we are about to run out

of time. We must mention Lord Heseltine and he is suggesting the

EU could offer Britain the kind of deal on immigration they would not

offer David Cameron and we could stay inside the EU. I agree with a

lot of what Michael says today and I wish he would write on this. My

conversations with my colleagues in Europe, my former colleagues, I do

not think they are going to offer this. What they will offer Britain

is membership of the European Economic Area, a bit like Norway,

and that is a holding position, perhaps for a long period of time

while Britain tries to work out what it once out of the vote last year to

leave the EU. Polly, how long do you give Theresa May? I do not think she

can last a year. By the time we get to the Tory party conference we will

see a party in total disarray. We were all waiting for the Labour

Party conference bloodbath and now it is the other way round. If she

can do a deal with the DUP, even if it is confidence and supply, I can

see her lasting until we exit the EU because no one wants to be in the

driving seat while the deal is done. Thank you all very much, absolutely

Thank you all very much, absolutely gripping stuff.

So, lots of questions for the EU negotiators too.

Guy Verhofstadt is the chief negotiator

The Dutch MEP, Sophie Int Veld, is his deputy.

Can I ask you know what is the view from Brussels? The clock is ticking,

Brexit is going to happen, is it not? Well, it is. Theresa May has

triggered the procedure, it has started. We have a period of two

years with a possible extension of one year but that would be

complicated because that would require the unanimous consent of all

27 other member states. The EU has been ready to negotiate for some

time now. We are waiting for the UK and we hope that we can start on

time and follow the timetable that has been set. All this loose talk

about a hard Brexit and a soft Brexit, from the EU's point of view

you want to do a deal that ensures Britain is in a worse position than

now and you want a hard Brexit? We do not want the UK to be in a worse

position. We regret Brexit. I personally would have preferred the

UK to remain on board but the British people have voted and we

have to deal with it. We agree with Theresa May on one thing, Brexit is

Brexit. You cannot have your cake and eat it. Either you are a member

of the EU or you are not. But we will have to work together, we will

still be neighbours, we still have shared interests. We feel that

whatever, hard Brexit or soft Brexit, we need to negotiate as

friends and good neighbours. We are not enemies or antagonists. We all

have an interest in a good outcome to the negotiations. Clearly the

British side is in some disarray because of the election campaign. Is

there anyway we can buy more time for these talks? The treaties are

very clear. There is a period of two years starting on the day that

Article 50 is triggered. That was the 29th of March. It will be the

29th of March, 2019. There is a provision that there can be a

one-year extension but that requires unanimity, so that will be

difficult. I think it is a bit early to start talking about extensions. I

think it is time we all sat down to start the work. I would really

hope... Clearly the election did not produce the outcome that Theresa May

expected. We just have to wait and see what kind of government will be

formed, whatever the government will be. I think as an outsider, of

course I cannot tell the British what to do, but we really hope for a

government that can command a and stable majority, a kind of

government that has national unity in order to negotiate a deal that is

best for the UK and the EU. In simple terms what would happen if

the British Parliament decided it did not want to go ahead with

Brexit? Nobody knows really, that is uncharted territory. It is not

really foreseen. If the Brits were to reconsider, and I do not think

that would happen, but were they to reconsider I suppose we could talk.

But membership of the EU, there are certain rules you have to comply

with and that goes for any member of the European Union. That still

Absolutely fascinating, thank you for joining us.

Extraordinary drenching rain and high winds

as we struggled to vote, and then, bright sunshine,

in parts of Britain at least, after the result.

But let's not go all pathetic fallacy about it, shall we?

I'm joined by Philip Avery in the BBC weather studio.

What a build-up. Time for a bit of quiet contemplation. That is the way

it could have been this morning if you happen to be in East Sussex. But

already signs of something a good deal more turbulence as Andrew might

put it across Scotland and Northern Ireland. For here, the first signs

of showers, keeping the atmosphere very unstable. This afternoon I

would not be surprised to see thundery showers breaking out on the

western side of Scotland and Northern Ireland. Further south and

east it is a drier and finer prospect, but the pollen levels are

very high and also the UV levels, especially in the South eastern

quarter. Overnight that low-pressure closes on the north of Britain,

keeping the showers going. That is not the only effect of that system.

Tomorrow morning if you are commuting in the central parts of

Scotland the wind gusts could be in excess of 40 miles an hour and that

could cause problems. Away from the showers of northern Scotland and

northern England there will be a lot of dry weather around. Hopefully

this cloud will break up and it will push the temperatures up to 20 or

That is the future of British weather.

We've been talking about Lord Heseltine.

You have written an article in which you suggest that the EU could offer

Britain a new deal on emigrating, the kind of deal they did not offer

David Cameron and that could keep us inside the EU in some respect. Would

there not need to be a second referendum for that to happen? It

could be, but it could be another general election. We are going to

face another general election anyway in the context of the Brexit

elections. The problem now, put very simply, is that Brexit is the cancer

gnawing at the heart of the Conservative Party. There is a lot

of talk of changing leader and it may well come to that, but it is not

about changing just the leader, it is changing the policy. Why I think

it needs a period of contemplation by particularly the Parliamentary

party is to let them think through who and what is going to be the

argument of the Conservative Party that. Jeremy Corbyn being Prime

Minister in a couple of years from time. It is as as that.

My own view, in contrast to the European spokesman who talk about

the need for stability there is no stability, there is no united view

and there is not going to be in the present circumstances. We have a

government at the mercy of events and of parliamentary votes and the

DUP arrangement with it, comes or doesn't come, we do not know, it is

inherently unstable certainly. How do you feel about the DUP? I am

closer to Ruth Davidson than Arlene Foster and I think that will apply

to large numbers of the Conservative Party. It is just not a stable

relationship. It may keep together for a short period of time, but

there are great weaknesses in the argument, but it might keep the

Government there for a bit but I do not think there is any mood for a

new general election, certainly not from the Conservatives, not from the

Scottish Nationalists and Corbyn can afford to wait. He knows, we all

know, we are in for two things. An economy which is not going to

improve in the immediate future. And secondly, the ongoing controversy of

Brexit which will reveal just how exposed the British Government is in

this negotiation, so he can wait and in the end, by-elections will give

him what he needs when the public mood will be clamouring for change.

You have seen prime ministers come and go including female prime

ministers in the past, how much longer do you think this Prime

Minister has? That is the sort of stuff that we should not get

preoccupied by. Kind of important. If I could advise Mrs May, I would

say that one great service you could do to this party is to allow the

party that time to decide its future direction. Whether she would then

revert to their views she held before the referendum or stick to

the ones after the referendum on Brexit, I cannot tell you, but the

fact is, if the Tory Party does not lance the boil of Brexit, then you

are opening the doors for Corbyn's premiership. I disagree with the

European spokesman saying that the process is under way, that is

bureaucratic mumbo jumbo. People who influence Europe are Angela Merkel

and Emmanuel Macron, and if they were persuaded that there was a

genuine British view about immigration that could meet their

own experiences domestically, then I believe the right leader of the

Conservative Party could find a deal which would keep us within the

European family, but deal with the issue of immigration which is the

underlying source of anxiety. A lot of people will be listening and

saying, there he goes again, unreconciled remainer rubbing his

hands over the chaos and hoping somehow after a clear referendum

result we can reverse and we cannot. You have just described the

Brexiteers over the last 30 years, they went on and on and on. I think

my democratic rights is to do just what they did and to follow Nigel

Farage's advice, when he thought he was going to lose the referendum, he

said, there will have to be a second referendum. Nicola Sturgeon having

lost, she is... She was until the election talking of a second

referendum. It is Parliament that is sovereign in this country. They have

the power and there is nothing sacrosanct about saying a Labour

government has won a mandate, we must get on our knees and thank God.

I spent my life fighting the decisions of the elected Labour

governments, in many cases, we won, it is a matter of personal

integrity, national self-interest and sticking to your convictions.

Lord Heseltine, fascinating to talk to you, thank you.

Listening to that, the Defence Secretary

in what is still Theresa May's government, Sir Michael Fallon.

Was it a mistake to call the selection? No, I think the Prime

Minister was right to ask for a bigger majority to open up Brexit

negotiations and to build a stronger, fairer Britain beyond

that. She did not have an elected mandate herself. She wanted a bigger

majority. But has not transpired and now we have to make the best of it.

She is entirely responsible for this, she made the election about

her, it is meat, meat, meat, lots of the country no, no. -- me, me, me.

It has been irresponsible. The Cabinet supported her in the

election campaign. It is your fault? We all take responsibility. She has

won 56 seats more than Labour, the biggest share of the vote for 34

years, it was not the big majority she wanted, that we wanted, and we

now have to make the best of it. There is no other party that has any

legitimacy or credibility in forming a government. We will now form that

government with the support of the DUP. Do you believe you won this

election? Clearly we did not get the large majority we wanted. We have

the largest majority of seats and under the constitution it is our

duty in the national interest to form a government, we are the only

legitimate party to do that and we will do that. Theresa May said at

the beginning of the campaign, if I lose just six seats, I will lose

this election. How many seats did you lose? Look, we did not get the

majority in the selection, of course, but we had most seats, the

biggest share of the vote, and it falls on

us... You had a majority and now you do not. Of course. We fully

understand the result of the election and we understand what

people are saying to us. The Queen's business must be carried on. Brexit

negotiations opening in a few days' time. We have to continue to build a

strong economy. It falls on us to build a government in the national

interest and that is what we are working with friends in the DUP to

do. The selection process has made the situation much worse and it was

partly because of the way the campaign was conducted. Did you feel

in the campaign the Prime Minister and other ministers were being

robotic, not answering questions properly, not engaging with the

British people in a vigorous conversation we expect? The Prime

Minister travelled thousands of miles... It is what she did when she

got there. She took more questions from the public. She did not answer

them. She did the television interviews and so on. We understand

the result, it was not the result we wanted, but now we have to make the

best of it and that is the work facing us this week and that is the

work we will complete. You say you understand what changes as a result

of that understanding? What do you do differently? It requires a

different approach. You have seen changes in personnel in Number 10.

Do you welcome that? Of course. We are going to see more collective, I

hope, decision-making in the Cabinet. We have made that clear to

her. I think we will also see her working more closely with the

Parliament to party, in the conduct of business and development of

policy. You have said to the Prime Minister and your colleagues have

said, you want to turn the traditional Cabinet government

rather than government by advisers and you want more listening to the

1922 Committee? I am not going into the private conversations we have

had with the Prime Minister, but I think she absolutely understands a

minority government will require a different approach, a more

collective approach, and she will want to work very closely with the

1922 Committee, with the backbenchers, not just on the

conduct of business, but also on the development of new policy. The

Cabinet is back? We have always had Cabinet government. We have had good

discussions. A minority government will require a different approach

and an even more collective approach than we had. How is the Prime

Minister? Obviously, on Friday, she was... She had been up most of the

night, like the rest of us. Reports she was in floods of tears when the

results came in. I do not know about that. She was also during the

campaign Prime Minister and I and other senior colleagues have had to

deal with... We had the terrorist attacks, ongoing security issues,

she has had to go on running the business of government as well as

leading the campaign. I hope she will be catching up on some sleep

now, but getting on with the work to date of forming a new government and

cementing the alliance with the DUP. Let us come onto that directly, are

you trying to do a formal coalition with the DUP? No, this is what is

traditionally called a confidence and supply arrangement whereby the

DUP will support us on the big things like voting for the Queen's

Speech, making sure the budget and the finance goes through, they

support us on defence, on the big issues, they will support us. George

Osborne suggested it would be chaotic because line by line, they

will be arguing about things. George is enjoying his job as a commentator

rather than a player on the pitch. We have to deal with the situation

in the House of Commons we have now, a minority government, but we will

be working extremely closely with the DUP, we have already started

working on outline proposals so we form a government with their

support. Can I ask you, have you got an agreement? No, we are working on

proposals, pretty surprising if we had an agreement in a single day.

Last night when the BBC and the press Association phoned Downing

Street, we were told, there was an agreement. A few hours later, not

sure. A long silence from the DUP. Midnight, there is no agreement. It

already sounds, to coin a phrase, like a coalition of chaos. It would

be surprising if something as important and complex as this was

stitched together in a single day of talks in Belfast. Both sides have

got to work through. Now we have an understanding of the outline

proposals that would underpin the working agreement. This is a crucial

agreement, will the public get to see it? Will you publish it? You

will see outline proposals. It will be published? They will support us

on big issues. They will be asking for stuff as well, they will not do

it for nothing. We need to know what they will ask from you and whether

you will give it to them. They will explain their approach to the

negotiations as well. I am not party to the negotiations. They will

support us on the big issues, security and economic issues, that

face this country and they will help us go into the Brexit negotiations

and get the outcome Britain wants. These are your new close friends.

Are you riposte by gay people? Let us be very clear, just because they

are going to support us, they are agreeing to support us on the

economic issues, and security issues facing this country, it does not

mean we now agree with all of their views, we do not. You do not agree

with that? Your Newnham College comic Ian Paisley Jr, I am pretty

riposte by gaze and lesbianism, I think it is wrong. -- your new

colleague, Ian Paisley Jr, I am pretty riposte. You are now in

alliance with a party which is extremely socially conservative and

very different from the party David Cameron and George Osborne were

trying to fashion. We are not in government or coalition with the

DUP. They are going to support us on the crucial economic and security

issues facing this country. We do not agree and we do not have to

agree with any of their views on some of these social issues and I

certainly do not. Crucial economic and security issues, another big

issue is the Northern Ireland peace process and into that peace process

is written the British governing has to be a neutral arbiter between the

two sides, you have to be fair and in the middle. How can you be that

if you are relying on the DUP for your very existence? We have already

had a friendship with the DUP going back many years. We have already had

a close relationship with the DUP, we have more in common with them

than the other parties. The DUP themselves want to return an

executive to Northern Ireland, they have every interest in getting an

agreement with the other Northern Ireland parties and we will continue

to work on that to bring stability to Northern Ireland. They have very

different views not only on social issues, and we know Ruth Davidson

tweeted she had given a speech on gay marriage in Belfast after the

deal was announced, I wonder why she did that, a lot of people worried

about their social views, even if you are not. We do not share their

views on some of the social issues and we do not have to do. We're not

changing our policy on any of that. They are going to support us on the

very big Brexit, economic and security issues facing this country,

it does not mean we have to agree with some of the stuff you have read

out. We do not agree with it. Let us carry on reading stuff out. You have

been very strong in your views on Jeremy Corbyn and his connection

with terrorism the DUP is supported by people like the red hand commando

is, do you regard those people as terrorists as well? The DUP has been

part of the democratic process in Northern Ireland. So has Sinn Fein.

They have been part of it, they want a settlement in Northern Ireland,

they supported the formation of the executive and they want it back at

Stormont governing Northern Ireland. They are part of the democratic

process now, whatever happened in the past. Are you not slightly

uneasy about continuing links with those kinds of groups? They are

committed to stability and peace in Northern Ireland, they have been

part of that negotiating process for many years, they want to bring peace

to Northern Ireland and that will be something we will be focusing on as

well. One area where they definitely take a different view from the

current government is over key aspects of Brexit, and it is not

just them. Ruth Davidson, a great victory in Scotland, 13 Conservative

MPs in Scotland, she wants, what is clear is the Conservative Party,

having failed to win a majority, now needs to work with others and that

means we can look again at what we hope to achieve as we leave the EU.

Do you agree with that? The parties that wanted to frustrate

Brexit with the SNP and the Liberal Democrats to some extent. They did

not make any progress at the election. We want, as Ruth Davidson

once, a successful Brexit that is a new partnership with Europe, that is

careful about the trade we already do with Europe, that comes to some

agreement on the immigration that we can accept from Europe, and that

enables us to continue to pursue new markets elsewhere. Has there been a

cabinet level discussion of any kind on slightly changing our view of

Brexit? The new Cabinet will meet early next week. Our view of Brexit

has not changed. We want an agreement that maximises our access

to a single market, comes to an arrangement on immigration,

continues the security co-operation we already have with Europe. A

successful Brexit, an agreement that is in the interests of us and

Europe. Have you got a majority in the House of commons for this? Yes,

I think everybody wants to see an agreement in the end that respects

what people voted for last year, to make sure that our cooperation with

Europe continues, our trade with Europe continues and our security

cooperation with Europe continues. Philip Hammond, who was in line to

be sacked, has already said he wants more pro-business approach to the

Brexit negotiations and things moving beneath the surface. I am not

sure you were party to Philip's conversation with the Prime Minister

and I was not. You would not be surprised. It is very important that

we are careful about the existing Craig Beattie do with Europe, about

access to the single market and whatever new arrangement we come to.

It is also important we do not lose the cooperation between our

intelligence organisations, our police forces and the security

operations we have. We want a new partnership with Europe and we will

be working hard for it. David Davies said, we want to leave the customs

union and the single market but get access to them. That is what we put

in front of people, we will see by tomorrow whether they have accepted

that or not, that will be their decision. By and large they have not

accepted that. The parties that wanted to frustrate the decision did

not make any progress. The SNP did not make any progress at all. Could

you talk to the Labour Party? They have taken a more nuanced approach

in terms of getting a grand coalition view representing 84% of

the British electorate. Could you not talk to them and ensure there

was a joint position? I welcome the point the Labour Party have shifted

their view and do not seem to be calling for a new referendum. They,

like us, want to have a successful Brexit and an agreement that works

for us and the European Union, that does not jeopardise the jobs and

trade we do with Europe, but still implements the overall result of the

referendum last year. These are very uncertain times and this is an

unfair question, but how long can Theresa May last as Prime Minister?

We have a duty to form a government and get on with the Brexit

negotiations, to continue the successful economic growth we have.

She is our elected leader and I think you will find the

Parliamentary party when it meets next week, the Parliamentary party

will rally behind her and give her support in what is now a different

situation, a minority government, but working in harness with the DUP.

The former Chancellor of the described her as a dead woman

walking. I do not agree with that. She won the biggest share of the

vote since the 1987 election, for over 30 years. She did not achieve

what we wanted, a bigger majority, but it is now her duty, with us, to

form a government and to pilot this country through the Brexit

negotiations. Thank you very much for coming on. So many other people

And coming up at 10am here on BBC One, Andrew Neil

presents a special edition of the Sunday Politics with guests

including Dominic Raab for the Conservatives,

and the Shadow Health Secretary, Jon Ashworth.

That's straight after this programme at ten.

It was by any standards a remarkable campaign.

But it leaves Labour many seats short of actually being able

What more can Jeremy Corbyn do to turn the effervescent politics

of protest into the hard realities of power?

He joins me now. Welcome. Good morning, you are looking very

chipper. It is an night Sunday morning and what better place to

spend it down with you? You say in the Sunday Mirror today that you

could be Prime Minister very shortly. And you still expect to put

down a Labour programme in the House of commons. I do not understand how

that can happen given the numbers. Look, we have a chaotic situation

with a government that sort the election on the basis of wanting a

bigger mandate to bring stability to British politics and what have we

got? A minority government relying on the DUP to try and get business

to the House of commons when they have no agreeing positions on most

issues. It is chaotic. We are quite ready and able to put forward a

series programme which has massive support in this country. This

election campaign turned around a great deal on the basis of an awful

lot of people rejecting the politics of fear and instead embracing the

politics of hope, that we can challenge austerity and we can share

the wealth in this country a bit better. In terms of raw numbers, in

terms of the way the system works, they got more votes and more seats

than you did and if they conform some kind of government, they have

the right to do that. It is very hard to see how you can stop them.

They are trying to form a government at the moment, I have no idea what

they will put into the Queen's speech. I have no idea what their

stance is. I am clear on our stance, we fought this election campaign to

oppose austerity, to start bringing fairness and justice, security for

old people and real hope for young people. Surely the result has shown

something very remarkable in British politics. Young people became

engaged, older people joined in in that engagement. We had an

incredible process, it was quite historic. But at the end of it you

lost the election even though it was an extraordinary campaign. We did

not win the election. I am totally optimistic person. We did not win

the election, but we had an incredibly good result, particularly

given the way many of our incredibly experienced commentators wrote us

off a month ago. I am going to return to the numbers. You are

welcome. You are going to put down and agreed alternative Queen's

speech. We will put down a substantial amendment which will

contain within the main points of our manifesto and we will invite the

House to consider all the issues we put forward, Brexit, young people

and austerity and as many other things. What will you say about

Brexit? Jobs first and negotiate that as quickly as possible. But

also to guarantee the rights of European Union nationals to remain

in Britain. Immediately? We did that straight after the referendum last

year albeit on a non-binding House of Commons vote. But bizarrely Boris

Johnson supported the Labour vote on that occasion. Keir Starmer, your

European spokesman, said it was an open question as to whether you

would stay inside the single market and the customs union leave it. Do

you have a clear position? Fundamentally it is protecting jobs

and industry in Britain and maintaining that trading

relationship. Could you stay inside the single market? The single market

is a requirement of the EU membership and since we will not be

members, they will have to be an arrangement made. You are clear we

are leaving the EU? Absolutely. We want a tariff free access to the

European market and we want to maintain very important university

research collaboration with Europe and there is a whole host of

European agencies, security, environment, which we wish to be

part of. We will absolutely remain part of the European Convention on

Human Rights and the European Court of Human Rights. We are not walking

away from those vital post-war agreements that were made. Do you

support the government on the so-called Great Repeal Bill? The

Great Repeal Bill I suspect has now become history. I suspect we will

have something different in a couple of weeks of' time. We will put

forward a position which will negotiate tariff free access to the

European market and legislate after that. You could come quite close to

dominating the House of Commons if you could persuade Sinn Fein to take

their seats. As it crossed your mind that you could have a conversation

with them? I fully understand the many aspects of Irish history and I

find Irish history absolutely fascinating and I have followed it,

as you know, for a long time. I represent a constituency with a huge

Irish number of constituents and I do not see them taking their seats.

Unless you know something I do not. No, I am asking you. Ruth Davidson

in Scotland has opened up the idea of the main parties sitting down

together and enjoying a joint position on Brexit. Can you see that

happening? I do not think there is a joint position because Theresa May

has said all along that they will talk to Europe and if they do not

agree they will set up a no tax haven on the shores of Europe. That

is not on our agenda at all. We are putting forward a very clear view on

the kind of relationship we want with Europe in the future. We have

to challenge the social conservatism of the DUP and what price they are

going to extract from Theresa May and the Conservatives in order to

continue to support them. They say there is no agreement. The DUP have

a very specific view on gay marriage on women's rights, on other things,

they are not social liberals. They have a very specific view on the

winter fuel payments and the welfare issues, where they are on your site

rather than the Conservatives. We will see what happens. I have

announced a hundred times that I have not done deals with anybody.

Will we put our programme to Parliament, yes and that is what we

will do. That is why we fought the election and that is why we had the

biggest increase in labour support in the election since 1945 and

something quite remarkable happened. Do you think we will have another

election this year? It is quite possible we will have an election

later this year or early next year. That might be a good thing because

we cannot go on with a period of instability. We have the support and

we are ready to fight another election campaign as soon as may be

because we want to be able to serve the people of this country on the

agenda we put forward which is transformative and has gained

amazing levels of support. People were saying, why are my children

worse off than I am? This election was not just about Brexit, there was

something very different about it. It was challenging and economic

consensus which has impoverished many people. It certainly was and

now there is a strategic choice about how you lead the Labour Party

going forward. You need to make one big job to achieve a parliamentary

majority and govern as the Labour Party. On the one hand you could say

the Momentum movement getting the younger voters out, the left of

centre manifesto, that worked brilliantly, and that is how I will

carry on. Or you could say, I want to open generously out to those

people who gave me a horrible time over the last few years, all those

Blairites who have been carping in the wings and who are now eating

humble pie. Would you bring those people back in? Yvette Cooper and

all the rest? Are they welcome back in? I am the most generous person in

the world. Chuka Umunna, would you welcome him back in? I am not going

to discuss my Shadow Cabinet on air with you. I am disappointed. Ever

since I have become a leader I have reached out and there have been a

few difficulties at times in the Parliamentary Labour Party, but

let's put that behind us. The party came together around a brilliant

manifesto and came together and fought this election and came

together for a result that you and nobody else ever expected. A lot of

people said, you, for the first time, are offering a real choice in

British politics and it is infectious. What is the next stage

of all of this. If you bring more people back in, you will heal the

Labour Party. You are expecting an election quite soon, is the Labour

Party ready for an election? It is a very expensive process. We do not

have any big donors, we do not have billionaires, we raised millions of

pounds from an average donation of ?22. Ordinary people with not very

much money saw something in us which was transformative and different. We

are ready any time. You said the one thing you feel is an early election,

what is your message to Theresa May now? She fought the election on the

basis she wanted a personal mandate. She said in Parliament, vote for me.

I said for Labour, I did not say that. She needed that mandate in

order to negotiate Brexit. She lost seats, she is in a minority

government and is relying on the DUP which barely gives her a majority

vote in the House of commons in order to survive. Is it credible

that with all the issues facing our country, all the issues of

inequality and justice and the Brexit talks, that you have a

government that cannot gain a majority in the House of commons

except by making a deal with a very socially conservative DUP. We need

something more responsible than that. Is Jeremy Corbyn in this for

Look at me, I have got youth on my side.

But stay with us for more drama as we can now go straight