Browse content similar to 29/10/2017. Check below for episodes and series from the same categories and more!
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Good morning. | 0:00:03 | 0:00:06 | |
The Harvey Weinstein story seems
to be changing something quite | 0:00:06 | 0:00:13 | |
profound in our culture,
as stories of sexual abuse | 0:00:13 | 0:00:15 | |
spill out from Hollywood,
the theatre, the media, | 0:00:15 | 0:00:17 | |
including the BBC, and now,
this week, Westminster as well. | 0:00:17 | 0:00:20 | |
Jeremy Corbyn said yesterday
that this is a turning point. | 0:00:20 | 0:00:22 | |
Is it? | 0:00:22 | 0:00:26 | |
Diane Abbott, the shadow
Home Secretary, has had | 0:00:40 | 0:00:47 | |
30 years of experience
of the Westminster culture. | 0:00:47 | 0:00:49 | |
Mr Corbyn said something needs
to change - so, what? | 0:00:49 | 0:00:51 | |
But there's another huge national
issue we're looking at today. | 0:00:51 | 0:00:54 | |
Theresa May writes this
morning about her new | 0:00:54 | 0:00:56 | |
crusade on mental health. | 0:00:56 | 0:00:59 | |
The Government is promising action,
but what's the actual Tory | 0:00:59 | 0:01:01 | |
record on mental health? | 0:01:01 | 0:01:03 | |
I'll be asking the Health
Secretary Jeremy Hunt. | 0:01:03 | 0:01:12 | |
With the Catalan crisis
still dominating today's news, | 0:01:12 | 0:01:17 | |
I'm going to be looking at some
of its origins and the unsettling | 0:01:17 | 0:01:20 | |
historical parallels with a leading
historian of the Spanish civil war, | 0:01:20 | 0:01:23 | |
Antony Beevor. | 0:01:23 | 0:01:25 | |
Playing us out this morning,
a Grammy Award-winning | 0:01:25 | 0:01:27 | |
country star, Jason Isbell. | 0:01:27 | 0:01:37 | |
# Knowing that this can't go on
forever. | 0:01:43 | 0:01:45 | |
# Likely one of us will have to
spend some days alone. | 0:01:45 | 0:01:50 | |
Reviewing the news,
the Corbyn-supporting Guardian | 0:01:50 | 0:01:52 | |
columnist Owen Jones,
and the author and commentator | 0:01:52 | 0:01:54 | |
Isabel Oakeshott. | 0:01:54 | 0:01:55 | |
All that coming up after
the news, read this morning | 0:01:55 | 0:01:57 | |
by Christian Fraser. | 0:01:57 | 0:01:58 | |
Supporters of a united Spain
are expected to gather in Barcelona | 0:01:58 | 0:02:01 | |
today amid rising tension over
Catalonia's declaration | 0:02:01 | 0:02:02 | |
of independence, which has plunged
the country into a political crisis. | 0:02:02 | 0:02:05 | |
The Spanish government has sacked
the region's leader, | 0:02:05 | 0:02:07 | |
Carles Puigdemont, and imposed
direct rule from Madrid. | 0:02:07 | 0:02:11 | |
Mr Puigdemont has responded
with a call for "democratic | 0:02:11 | 0:02:13 | |
opposition" from all Catalans. | 0:02:13 | 0:02:14 | |
Gavin Lee is in Barcelona
for us this morning. | 0:02:14 | 0:02:21 | |
What is the latest?
These are the days of alternate | 0:02:21 | 0:02:27 | |
demonstrations. We had on Friday in
credible scenes of celebration, | 0:02:27 | 0:02:32 | |
families, pensioners, children
brought to the street wrapped in the | 0:02:32 | 0:02:36 | |
flag of independence. To date on it
is the turn of Catalans who want | 0:02:36 | 0:02:40 | |
unity who will be wearing their
flag, we have seen them crossing | 0:02:40 | 0:02:44 | |
behind me as they gather in the main
square, we expect over 100,000 | 0:02:44 | 0:02:48 | |
people here today. Both sides asking
pretty much the same question, how | 0:02:48 | 0:02:53 | |
will, or will indeed, the Spanish
Government force out the man who is | 0:02:53 | 0:02:58 | |
technically no longer president,
Carles Puigdemont, but who will not | 0:02:58 | 0:03:00 | |
go? He spoke yesterday | 0:03:00 | 0:03:12 | |
about democratic and resisting what
will happen if him, along with 140 | 0:03:24 | 0:03:26 | |
officials, are moved out. I think
today we will see movement on the | 0:03:26 | 0:03:29 | |
streets, the battle of the flags.
Tomorrow potentially the flash point | 0:03:29 | 0:03:31 | |
in the government office, does
Carles Puigdemont try to go to work? | 0:03:31 | 0:03:33 | |
It so, what does the Spanish
Government do about it? | 0:03:33 | 0:03:35 | |
Heathrow Airport says
it is investigating how details | 0:03:35 | 0:03:37 | |
of its security procedures
were found lying in | 0:03:37 | 0:03:39 | |
the street in west London. | 0:03:39 | 0:03:40 | |
The Sunday Mirror says
the information was on a memory | 0:03:40 | 0:03:43 | |
stick, and had not been encrypted. | 0:03:43 | 0:03:44 | |
It contained information
concerning the Queen, | 0:03:44 | 0:03:46 | |
as well as maps showing CCTV cameras
and a network of tunnels | 0:03:46 | 0:03:49 | |
and escape shafts, linked
to the Heathrow Express train line. | 0:03:49 | 0:03:51 | |
Parents will no longer be able
to use a legal loophole to avoid | 0:03:51 | 0:03:54 | |
paying child maintenance,
under new rules to be | 0:03:54 | 0:03:56 | |
introduced within months. | 0:03:56 | 0:03:58 | |
The Department for Work and Pensions
says it hope the changes will lead | 0:03:58 | 0:04:01 | |
to hundreds of thousands of pounds
in additional child | 0:04:01 | 0:04:03 | |
maintenance being collected | 0:04:03 | 0:04:04 | |
The First Minister of Scotland,
Nicola Sturgeon, is to apologise | 0:04:04 | 0:04:07 | |
on behalf of her Government
to all men convicted of sexual | 0:04:07 | 0:04:09 | |
offences which involved other men
and have since been abolished. | 0:04:09 | 0:04:12 | |
She'll make her statement next week
when the Scottish Government sets | 0:04:12 | 0:04:14 | |
out new legislation to grant
automatic pardons | 0:04:14 | 0:04:16 | |
to those affected. | 0:04:16 | 0:04:19 | |
That's all from me. | 0:04:19 | 0:04:23 | |
The next news on BBC One is at 1pm. | 0:04:23 | 0:04:26 | |
Back to you, Andrew. | 0:04:26 | 0:04:27 | |
Thank you. | 0:04:27 | 0:04:28 | |
Now to the papers. | 0:04:28 | 0:04:30 | |
No single story dominating today,
the Sunday Times has a story about | 0:04:30 | 0:04:33 | |
prisoners getting the vote in a
change of human rights legislation, | 0:04:33 | 0:04:38 | |
and the sex pest story, they focus
on BBCi women, Michelle Hussain | 0:04:38 | 0:04:42 | |
wakes up to find itself on the front
page of The Times and has tweeted | 0:04:42 | 0:04:46 | |
this story is not accurate so far as
it concerns her. The Sunday | 0:04:46 | 0:04:50 | |
Telegraph has a story about
hospitals failing to tackle a safety | 0:04:50 | 0:04:54 | |
crisis, the Observer has gone for
Brexit, the only paper to do that | 0:04:54 | 0:04:58 | |
today. Theresa May has warned the UK
to be ready for no deal. Spain on a | 0:04:58 | 0:05:08 | |
knife edge, a genuinely dangerous
situation, and the Mail On Sunday | 0:05:08 | 0:05:12 | |
has gone for the Westminster sex
story. Westminster sent -- minister | 0:05:12 | 0:05:19 | |
said his PA to buy sex toys, not too
much gory detail, so don't panic. | 0:05:19 | 0:05:24 | |
Owen Jones, let's carry on with that
story, inside the Sunday Times, a | 0:05:24 | 0:05:31 | |
big piece about what is going on in
Westminster. I think this is | 0:05:31 | 0:05:34 | |
potentially very scandalous, reports
of two senior Cabinet ministers | 0:05:34 | 0:05:39 | |
named by female researchers as being
"sex pests", the Prime Minister | 0:05:39 | 0:05:49 | |
being updated on this but the whips,
and this is serious, treating it | 0:05:49 | 0:05:53 | |
apparently as a bit of a laugh. A
joke yesterday about Harvey | 0:05:53 | 0:05:58 | |
Weinstein and the sexual abuse and
rape of women. I think a number of | 0:05:58 | 0:06:01 | |
things have to happen here, firstly
women need to be encouraged to be | 0:06:01 | 0:06:05 | |
able to come forward and be
supported and believed, action needs | 0:06:05 | 0:06:08 | |
to be taken about these Cabinet
ministers, but a critical question | 0:06:08 | 0:06:13 | |
is, is Theresa May herself involved
in a cover-up of sexual harassment | 0:06:13 | 0:06:16 | |
and abuse by her own ministers? That
has to be made abundantly clear. You | 0:06:16 | 0:06:20 | |
put all of this on the Conservatives
but there are stories about the | 0:06:20 | 0:06:24 | |
Labour Party as well. Absolutely,
1.4 million women face domestic | 0:06:24 | 0:06:31 | |
violence EJ, 400,000 sexually
assaulted, 90,000 raped, the vast | 0:06:31 | 0:06:34 | |
majority of cases have no justice,
whether it be the Labour Party or | 0:06:34 | 0:06:38 | |
Conservative Party, any party, any
institution, women need to be | 0:06:38 | 0:06:42 | |
supported and believed. The issue
here is about this briefing where | 0:06:42 | 0:06:46 | |
whips apparently are treating it as
a joke and Theresa May is not taking | 0:06:46 | 0:06:50 | |
action. I think a lot of people
watching, Isabel Oakeshott, will be | 0:06:50 | 0:06:56 | |
asking the question, how serious is
this? Some suggest Theresa May could | 0:06:56 | 0:07:01 | |
lose three ministers over this and
be forced into a cabinet reshuffle. | 0:07:01 | 0:07:04 | |
We need to keep a perspective on
this, the way Westminster is | 0:07:04 | 0:07:09 | |
depicted in the papers today, you
imagine corridors full of marauding | 0:07:09 | 0:07:13 | |
sex pest, the whole place like a
Berlin sex dungeon. I have worked at | 0:07:13 | 0:07:19 | |
Westminster for over a decade, I
simply do not recognise the way that | 0:07:19 | 0:07:24 | |
the corridors of power are being
portrayed here. Of course there are | 0:07:24 | 0:07:28 | |
a few bad elements, I'm sure we have
all come across them, but I think | 0:07:28 | 0:07:32 | |
the reporting of this is rather
hysterical and I do actually | 0:07:32 | 0:07:35 | |
disagree with you, Owen, about the
comments by Michael Gove. Yes they | 0:07:35 | 0:07:40 | |
were tasteless, but for everybody to
be so outraged over what was a | 0:07:40 | 0:07:44 | |
rather clumsy comment, I just think
there are so many more things to be | 0:07:44 | 0:07:48 | |
outraged about. Obviously you can
talk about a hierarchy of outrage, | 0:07:48 | 0:07:54 | |
there are many other things you
could go on forever with that logic, | 0:07:54 | 0:07:56 | |
but the issue is many girls and
women, and I know many myself, do | 0:07:56 | 0:08:00 | |
not feel able to come forward, do
not feel bullied, and when a Cabinet | 0:08:00 | 0:08:04 | |
minister makes a joke about sexual
harassment, abuse and rape, in the | 0:08:04 | 0:08:09 | |
case of Harvey Weinstein, it makes
it harder for people to come forward | 0:08:09 | 0:08:13 | |
and it encourages a culture amongst
men, and men need to take | 0:08:13 | 0:08:20 | |
responsibility to treat sexual abuse
and harassment as a bit of a joke, a | 0:08:20 | 0:08:23 | |
bit of a laugh, lighten up everyone,
that is an issue that we have do | 0:08:23 | 0:08:27 | |
address. I don't for a minute
believe Theresa May or her whips | 0:08:27 | 0:08:30 | |
will be taking this as a bit of a
laugh. That is what the Sunday Times | 0:08:30 | 0:08:35 | |
suggests. If there is a possibility
of Cabinet ministers losing their | 0:08:35 | 0:08:38 | |
jobs, that is not a laughing
situation. You have been inside this | 0:08:38 | 0:08:42 | |
culture for a long time, as had the
Sunday Times' deputy editor, she has | 0:08:42 | 0:08:48 | |
written a piece. Sarah Baxter has
written a piece in which she points | 0:08:48 | 0:08:51 | |
out that, she is sort of slightly
coming at it from the same angle as | 0:08:51 | 0:08:57 | |
I am, saying there is a world of
difference between a rape allegation | 0:08:57 | 0:09:02 | |
or a really serious assault
allegation and the kind of rather | 0:09:02 | 0:09:06 | |
clumsy flirting, rather rubbish, s
that I think a lot of people are | 0:09:06 | 0:09:12 | |
talking about here. It is not
pleasant but it was ever thus, there | 0:09:12 | 0:09:19 | |
are 14,000 pass-holders at
Westminster, show me any other | 0:09:19 | 0:09:22 | |
workplace with that many people
where there are not some people who | 0:09:22 | 0:09:25 | |
make rather rubbish comments. Jeremy
Corbyn made a powerful intervention | 0:09:25 | 0:09:29 | |
yesterday when he called for
victims, survivors of sexual | 0:09:29 | 0:09:32 | |
harassment, abuse or worse, to come
forward. You would yourself | 0:09:32 | 0:09:35 | |
encourage women who have been
sexually harassed or assaulted to | 0:09:35 | 0:09:39 | |
come forward and put those
allegations forward, surely? John | 0:09:39 | 0:09:44 | |
Mann, in the House of Commons, has
suggested there should be some kind | 0:09:44 | 0:09:50 | |
of tsar whose job it is to receive
allegations. There was some pushback | 0:09:50 | 0:09:55 | |
on that, which says something
slightly worrying. I think we should | 0:09:55 | 0:09:58 | |
demand and expect a higher standard
from our elected representatives. | 0:09:58 | 0:10:05 | |
Partly I'm saying, show me another
workplace... Actually, MPs have to | 0:10:05 | 0:10:09 | |
be better than other people. What
does it say about our democratic | 0:10:09 | 0:10:14 | |
culture that every time there is
probably call for a tsar? The | 0:10:14 | 0:10:18 | |
problem with the House of Commons is
the nature of the employment, | 0:10:18 | 0:10:22 | |
basically MPs are effectively
self-employed, there is not a human | 0:10:22 | 0:10:25 | |
resources Department, it is
difficult to know who you go to, | 0:10:25 | 0:10:28 | |
there is a trade union, Unite
represents Parliamentary research | 0:10:28 | 0:10:32 | |
is, but it is difficult for them to
come forward and what MPs exploit in | 0:10:32 | 0:10:36 | |
these cases is, this could be
detrimental to your career if you | 0:10:36 | 0:10:39 | |
come forward. I would like to move
on to the other huge story, the | 0:10:39 | 0:10:42 | |
Catalan crisis. You have an Observer
story? Yes, a story about the | 0:10:42 | 0:10:49 | |
massive polarisation of Catalan
society, I think it is about 50-50 | 0:10:49 | 0:10:51 | |
at the moment being leaving, but the
vast amount of responsibility for | 0:10:51 | 0:10:56 | |
the situation lies with the Spanish
government, there was reprimanded | 0:10:56 | 0:11:00 | |
years ago Catalonia that enshrined
them as a nation, gave the language | 0:11:00 | 0:11:06 | |
special protected status, the ruling
People's party stripped those away | 0:11:06 | 0:11:10 | |
and, in attempt to deflect from
corruption scandals in the game, | 0:11:10 | 0:11:13 | |
they ratcheted up attacks on
so-called separatists, and that has | 0:11:13 | 0:11:19 | |
led to the attacks on the democratic
norms in Catalonia and assaulting | 0:11:19 | 0:11:24 | |
voters as we saw the other week.
Your 50-50 statistic is interesting, | 0:11:24 | 0:11:31 | |
I'm not sure where it comes from...
From polls. Imagine the Scottish | 0:11:31 | 0:11:39 | |
Government unilaterally declared
independence on the basis of an | 0:11:39 | 0:11:42 | |
unconstitutional vote which
attracted a mere 43% turnout. That | 0:11:42 | 0:11:49 | |
is nothing, we would be rightly
outraged about this. The Spanish | 0:11:49 | 0:11:53 | |
Government has spectacularly
mishandled this, they have turned it | 0:11:53 | 0:11:57 | |
into an unnecessary crisis. The
differences, I did praise David | 0:11:57 | 0:12:01 | |
Cameron very often, but the
Government here allowed Scotland to | 0:12:01 | 0:12:06 | |
have a referendum to democratically
decided own future. And that defused | 0:12:06 | 0:12:11 | |
the situation, Madrid has not
handled this well. They refused to | 0:12:11 | 0:12:14 | |
allow them... I don't support
Catalan independence, as much as it | 0:12:14 | 0:12:18 | |
matters, but they are being denied
the right to determine their future. | 0:12:18 | 0:12:22 | |
In Cuba and Scotland, they were
allowed to decide. Part of the | 0:12:22 | 0:12:27 | |
problem I think is the Spanish
constitution, almost too clear on | 0:12:27 | 0:12:30 | |
this, it has not given Mariano Rajoy
much movement for manoeuvre. It was | 0:12:30 | 0:12:37 | |
passed in the death of Franco and
was done to stop Civil War kicking | 0:12:37 | 0:12:42 | |
off, that is why it is a hard line.
We don't have a huge amount of time, | 0:12:42 | 0:12:46 | |
I want to move onto some other
stories. An intriguing story in the | 0:12:46 | 0:12:49 | |
Mail on Sunday, that Amber Rudd, on
one wing of the party when it comes | 0:12:49 | 0:12:54 | |
to Europe, Boris Johnson very much
on another, have come to some kind | 0:12:54 | 0:12:57 | |
of arrangement? This suggestion that
Amber Rudd, the Home Secretary, | 0:12:57 | 0:13:03 | |
whose star has very much risen in
recent months, might team up with | 0:13:03 | 0:13:07 | |
Boris Johnson, the Foreign Secretary
whose star has somewhat fallen, to | 0:13:07 | 0:13:11 | |
make a kind of dream team in the
event of Theresa May falling on her | 0:13:11 | 0:13:16 | |
sword, all being ousted. So before
jumping in, Amber Rudd has been so | 0:13:16 | 0:13:22 | |
rude about Boris Johnson in the past
-- sorry for jumping in. Absolutely, | 0:13:22 | 0:13:29 | |
she said she would not want to be in
the same car as Boris at the end of | 0:13:29 | 0:13:33 | |
a night out! I don't entirely buy
into this, knowing the personalities | 0:13:33 | 0:13:36 | |
and characters of both politicians.
I think it would be a very | 0:13:36 | 0:13:40 | |
attractive ticket for voters, but
the problem is it would fall down | 0:13:40 | 0:13:45 | |
almost instantly. It just wouldn't
work? I don't think Amber Rudd would | 0:13:45 | 0:13:50 | |
put up with Boris' nonsense for more
than a few days, it might be another | 0:13:50 | 0:13:55 | |
Michael Gove situation where she
pulled the plug at the last minute. | 0:13:55 | 0:13:58 | |
The fact he is Foreign Secretary is
almost an international laughing | 0:13:58 | 0:14:03 | |
stock, he has a history of bigoted
remarks, his manoeuvring on Brexit | 0:14:03 | 0:14:07 | |
was for his own political career.
Onto the iPad with which you have | 0:14:07 | 0:14:16 | |
been furnished... So, yes, this is
Jeremy Corbyn yesterday marking 50 | 0:14:16 | 0:14:22 | |
years since abortion was
decriminalised, he has continued to | 0:14:22 | 0:14:27 | |
fight for women's rights to choose
here and around the world. This | 0:14:27 | 0:14:29 | |
point about giving women the right
to choose, it is an act of terrible | 0:14:29 | 0:14:35 | |
violence to force women to have
children against their will. We know | 0:14:35 | 0:14:38 | |
in countries where abortion is
banned, women do not have the right | 0:14:38 | 0:14:41 | |
to choose, there is still demand for
abortion but it is unsafe and | 0:14:41 | 0:14:45 | |
women's lives are put at risk and
that is why safe abortion is so | 0:14:45 | 0:14:48 | |
important. If it virtue signalling
to say, we must remember this? There | 0:14:48 | 0:14:52 | |
is not a proposal here? It was a
landmark, he is talking about | 0:14:52 | 0:14:58 | |
Labour's record, Labour have a good
record of championing women's | 0:14:58 | 0:15:01 | |
rights, that was a critical
milestone, and there is a danger | 0:15:01 | 0:15:05 | |
that in America and here culture
warriors want to take away the right | 0:15:05 | 0:15:09 | |
to choose... You talk about an act
of terrible violence to force women | 0:15:09 | 0:15:11 | |
to have babies they don't want, at
act of terrible violence is a late | 0:15:11 | 0:15:16 | |
abortion. They are obscene and a lot
of people in this country feel | 0:15:16 | 0:15:19 | |
really strongly about that. I think
what is | 0:15:19 | 0:15:32 | |
interesting about the whole 50 year
anniversary thing is the extent to | 0:15:35 | 0:15:37 | |
which science has come on, and
medicine, in those 50 years, and our | 0:15:37 | 0:15:39 | |
ability to save premature babies,
neonatal care has improved | 0:15:39 | 0:15:41 | |
dramatically so I would love to see
a debate about reducing the time | 0:15:41 | 0:15:44 | |
limit on abortion, but it is very
difficult for politicians to do | 0:15:44 | 0:15:46 | |
this. I will encourage you to pick
up on another health story. An | 0:15:46 | 0:15:49 | |
unusual one, Owen and ICI to write
on this. Theresa May picking up on | 0:15:49 | 0:15:54 | |
the pressure from voters over
putting more resources into mental | 0:15:54 | 0:15:58 | |
Health Services, a real problem here
with the cash-strapped NHS, mental | 0:15:58 | 0:16:04 | |
health Services so often don't get
the resources they need. I hope you | 0:16:04 | 0:16:08 | |
hammid Jeremy Hunt on his atrocious
record as Health Secretary, the | 0:16:08 | 0:16:12 | |
longest squeeze in NHS funding since
its foundation and even though | 0:16:12 | 0:16:16 | |
parity of esteem was promised for
physical and mental health, cuts to | 0:16:16 | 0:16:20 | |
Mental Health Services ended up 20%
worse than for the rest of the NHS, | 0:16:20 | 0:16:24 | |
people forced to wait months for
treatment, often when they subside, | 0:16:24 | 0:16:28 | |
bumped around the country, bed is
not available, there is lots of good | 0:16:28 | 0:16:33 | |
talk about mental health, and that
is important, but the action is not | 0:16:33 | 0:16:40 | |
there. I detect an intriguing
considerable moment has not quite | 0:16:40 | 0:16:44 | |
crystallised as expected! Thank you
both very much. | 0:16:44 | 0:16:48 | |
So we've just been
talking about Catalonia. | 0:16:48 | 0:16:50 | |
We all understand that this is now
a confrontation between Madrid | 0:16:50 | 0:16:53 | |
and the Northern separatists. | 0:16:53 | 0:16:54 | |
But what can be difficult
to remember is just why | 0:16:54 | 0:16:56 | |
feelings run so deep. | 0:16:56 | 0:16:57 | |
This goes back to the 1930s -
many people will remember | 0:16:57 | 0:17:00 | |
George Orwell's Homage To Catalonia. | 0:17:00 | 0:17:01 | |
He was describing his time
fighting for anarchists | 0:17:01 | 0:17:03 | |
in the Spanish civil war. | 0:17:03 | 0:17:10 | |
And I'm joined now by one of this
country's prime historians | 0:17:10 | 0:17:16 | |
of that war, Antony Beevor. | 0:17:16 | 0:17:17 | |
Can we start off about why the
Catalans feel separate? They did | 0:17:17 | 0:17:24 | |
have their own country and empire
back in medieval times and it was | 0:17:24 | 0:17:29 | |
only really from 1716, after the war
Spanish accession and the great | 0:17:29 | 0:17:35 | |
siege of Barcelona, but they were
fully brought under the control of | 0:17:35 | 0:17:37 | |
Madrid. And it was the first ball
going king, Philip V, who brought | 0:17:37 | 0:17:44 | |
this to pass, and this is why
they're very reluctant to accept the | 0:17:44 | 0:17:49 | |
monarchy. So they were effectively
invaded and grabbed. In modern | 0:17:49 | 0:17:55 | |
times, of course, they were mostly
on the Republican side in the | 0:17:55 | 0:17:58 | |
Spanish civil war, and most people
who go to Barcelona now think it is | 0:17:58 | 0:18:03 | |
a very lovely, sun-kissed place that
they should remember what it was | 0:18:03 | 0:18:07 | |
like during the Spanish civil war,
when it was the epicentre? Well, it | 0:18:07 | 0:18:13 | |
was and Franco and his generals
thought that they would win | 0:18:13 | 0:18:16 | |
Barcelona easily. In fact the most
desperate fighting took place in | 0:18:16 | 0:18:21 | |
July 1936, when the general stride
to take over, and they were defeated | 0:18:21 | 0:18:25 | |
basically by the Alick -ists, but
also by the semi Trotskyists who | 0:18:25 | 0:18:32 | |
George Orwell was fighting with.
Absolutely. So, a lot of fighting. | 0:18:32 | 0:18:45 | |
And these divisions go deep into
Catalan society to which side were | 0:18:45 | 0:18:51 | |
weak on in the war? I should mention
that in Madrid Mr Rajoy came from a | 0:18:51 | 0:18:59 | |
pro-Franco family, for instance.
Whereas Mr Puigdemont was on the | 0:18:59 | 0:19:02 | |
other side, so these are still deep
divisions in Catalonia? Well, they | 0:19:02 | 0:19:07 | |
are deep throughout Spain, really.
But for the Catalans, I think the | 0:19:07 | 0:19:13 | |
most appalling crime of all was the
way that the Gestapo handed over the | 0:19:13 | 0:19:20 | |
president of the Generalitat to
Franco and he was then exit you did | 0:19:20 | 0:19:25 | |
in 1940. We think of fascist leaders
as being 1940s characters, but | 0:19:25 | 0:19:32 | |
actually in Spain it goes right up
to the nineteen seventies. After he | 0:19:32 | 0:19:38 | |
wins the civil war, Franco really
represses Catalan autonomy? Yes, and | 0:19:38 | 0:19:51 | |
for other regions as well. That's
why it was important after the death | 0:19:51 | 0:19:55 | |
of Franco in the constitution of
1978 for there to be a certain | 0:19:55 | 0:20:01 | |
reassurance about the unity of
Spain. Absolutely. And what are your | 0:20:01 | 0:20:08 | |
reflections, you very, very well, on
what is happening right now, and the | 0:20:08 | 0:20:11 | |
agency with its the Catalans seem to
be demanding independence? What one | 0:20:11 | 0:20:17 | |
is seeing to a degree is that the
urgency is prompted by the fact that | 0:20:17 | 0:20:21 | |
they are losing support for
independence. The latest poll shows | 0:20:21 | 0:20:25 | |
that actually it is 55% against and
only 41% or 42% in favour of | 0:20:25 | 0:20:31 | |
independence. They know they're
losing control and this is why there | 0:20:31 | 0:20:35 | |
is much more of a push over recent
days. I was reading another | 0:20:35 | 0:20:38 | |
historian, I would say the name,
suggesting in yesterday's papers | 0:20:38 | 0:20:43 | |
that Spain might be on the brink of
actual violence, the beginning of a | 0:20:43 | 0:20:47 | |
Yugoslav-style break-up? I don't
think so, I don't think we will see | 0:20:47 | 0:20:52 | |
a Catalan version of Eta arising or
anything like that. People say, are | 0:20:52 | 0:21:02 | |
we facing another Spanish civil war?
The conditions are totally separate. | 0:21:02 | 0:21:08 | |
I think Spain is a very mature
democracy and I think they probably | 0:21:08 | 0:21:12 | |
handle things as best they can in
the circumstances. And of course | 0:21:12 | 0:21:16 | |
Catalonia is a very wealthy part of
Spain, Abel have a lot to lose? In | 0:21:16 | 0:21:19 | |
deed. The Northern League in Italy
and other independence movements | 0:21:19 | 0:21:25 | |
were much more interested in paying
less taxes. I think on the whole | 0:21:25 | 0:21:28 | |
many of the historical arguments
tended to be used, if you like, as | 0:21:28 | 0:21:35 | |
emotional support to basically what
are quite self-centred reasons for | 0:21:35 | 0:21:37 | |
independence. So we are in a kind of
read the book, don't look at the | 0:21:37 | 0:21:43 | |
crystal ball moment. What would you
expect for the next few moves? I | 0:21:43 | 0:21:47 | |
think we're going to see more or
less a collapse, a split within the | 0:21:47 | 0:21:51 | |
Catalan movement. The extreme
activist side, which was already | 0:21:51 | 0:22:00 | |
holding Mr Puigdemont a little bit
hostage, I think that will be | 0:22:00 | 0:22:06 | |
falling back and we will see a
fragmentation. The very fact that | 0:22:06 | 0:22:10 | |
you've got 55% supporting the
central government and its call for | 0:22:10 | 0:22:15 | |
elections means that I think we're
going to see a calming of the | 0:22:15 | 0:22:19 | |
situation, rather than a threat of
another civil war, far from it. | 0:22:19 | 0:22:24 | |
Thank you very much very much indeed
for coming in. And so for the | 0:22:24 | 0:22:28 | |
weather. I'm delighted to say, it is
about to get a bit colder. About | 0:22:28 | 0:22:35 | |
time! Over to Louise Lear. Well, it
is only | 0:22:35 | 0:22:39 | |
time! Over to Louise Lear. Well, it
is only going to be a brief short, | 0:22:39 | 0:22:42 | |
sharp shock, but, yes. Temperatures
have been 8 degrees down on where | 0:22:42 | 0:22:48 | |
they were yesterday in Scotland. A
different story further south and | 0:22:48 | 0:22:52 | |
west, though. This has been sitting
across Wales and the Midlands, East | 0:22:52 | 0:22:59 | |
Anglia and the south-east of England
so far this morning, this weather | 0:22:59 | 0:23:02 | |
front. And behind it, some colder
air coming down from the Arctic. You | 0:23:02 | 0:23:08 | |
will notice that the cold air never
really gets down into the extreme | 0:23:08 | 0:23:11 | |
south-west today. But we will see
the cloud breaking up and sunny | 0:23:11 | 0:23:16 | |
spells coming through. Generally
speaking, it's a quiet day. The | 0:23:16 | 0:23:21 | |
northerly wind is driving in showers
along the North Sea coast driver. | 0:23:21 | 0:23:26 | |
Temperatures disappointing in
Scotland. The winds will continue to | 0:23:26 | 0:23:35 | |
be very large indeed, clear skies
overnight, as temperatures fall | 0:23:35 | 0:23:38 | |
away. First thing in the morning
it's going to be on the chilly site. | 0:23:38 | 0:23:45 | |
In rural spots we could see
temperatures just below freezing, so | 0:23:45 | 0:23:49 | |
our first widespread frost of the
season. Andrew, you're quite right, | 0:23:49 | 0:23:55 | |
but it's not going to last.
Horrible, mushy, grey, mild weather! | 0:23:55 | 0:24:05 | |
I hate it! | 0:24:05 | 0:24:10 | |
Speaking yesterday the leader
of the Opposition, Jeremy Corbyn, | 0:24:10 | 0:24:12 | |
responded to stories of sexual abuse
and the disgrace of a Labour MP, | 0:24:12 | 0:24:16 | |
Jared O'Mara, by denouncing
"a warped and degrading culture that | 0:24:16 | 0:24:19 | |
exists and thrives in the corridors
of power, including Westminster". | 0:24:19 | 0:24:21 | |
Diane Abbott, now the Shadow Home
Secretary, has lived inside that | 0:24:21 | 0:24:24 | |
culture for three decades,
and she joins me now. | 0:24:24 | 0:24:27 | |
You have been there for a long time
- do you recognise that as a warped | 0:24:27 | 0:24:33 | |
and dangerous culture? Yes, and if
anything it was worse when I first | 0:24:33 | 0:24:36 | |
became an MP. You would remember,
you were there. You would have | 0:24:36 | 0:24:40 | |
micro-sexual aggression, so women
would get up in the chamber and the | 0:24:40 | 0:24:44 | |
Tories opposite would do this
gesture like they were weighing | 0:24:44 | 0:24:49 | |
their breasts. There was harassment,
there were jokes. Party to do with | 0:24:49 | 0:24:53 | |
the fact that it was a very male
environment, just 20 women out of | 0:24:53 | 0:24:57 | |
650 MPs when I went there. Hartley
to do with all of these men away | 0:24:57 | 0:25:03 | |
from home. Party to do with the fact
that there were eight bars and very | 0:25:03 | 0:25:06 | |
long hours and the bars were open
for as long as they were sitting. | 0:25:06 | 0:25:10 | |
Party due to the notion that what
happens in Westminster stays in | 0:25:10 | 0:25:14 | |
westerns to. It was worse. It is a
little better now but there is a | 0:25:14 | 0:25:18 | |
long way to go. Did you yourself
face harassment? I have to say, when | 0:25:18 | 0:25:24 | |
I was a new MP, I had a little boy,
I was a single mother, I didn't have | 0:25:24 | 0:25:31 | |
time to hang around bars. But I
heard from colleagues and I saw some | 0:25:31 | 0:25:35 | |
of the gestures and noises that were
made in the chamber. Clare Short, | 0:25:35 | 0:25:40 | |
who was a colleague at that time,
she tries to have a campaign against | 0:25:40 | 0:25:46 | |
naked women in the Sun, and the
abuse she got from other MPs... | 0:25:46 | 0:25:52 | |
People would be pulled now if that
kind of thing happened. Fast forward | 0:25:52 | 0:25:57 | |
to now and it is still about men in
power and women relatively powerless | 0:25:57 | 0:26:01 | |
in many cases, researchers and so
forth. There is now a WhatsApp group | 0:26:01 | 0:26:05 | |
and women are talking to each other.
I don't know if you are aware of | 0:26:05 | 0:26:09 | |
that, but there is a different
atmosphere? The world has moved on. | 0:26:09 | 0:26:13 | |
When I first went into Parliament,
so many of those men had been to all | 0:26:13 | 0:26:17 | |
boy boarding schools and had really
archaic attitudes towards women. | 0:26:17 | 0:26:25 | |
Middle-aged women, actually, are
less likely now than middle-aged men | 0:26:25 | 0:26:28 | |
to believe that young researchers
are irresistibly sexually attracted | 0:26:28 | 0:26:34 | |
to them. So the fact that we have
women MPs helps with that. We have | 0:26:34 | 0:26:38 | |
seen problems with our Labour
colleague who had to be suspended | 0:26:38 | 0:26:44 | |
for quite unacceptable language. We
read in the Times about the | 0:26:44 | 0:26:49 | |
allegations, the question is, what
needs to change? Are you attracted | 0:26:49 | 0:26:54 | |
by the idea which I think John Mann
has talked about, some kind of | 0:26:54 | 0:26:58 | |
central figure in Westminster who is
there to receive those allegations | 0:26:58 | 0:27:02 | |
and investigate them privately?
Well, just this July, the Labour | 0:27:02 | 0:27:07 | |
Party has changed its systems. We're
going to be setting out where the | 0:27:07 | 0:27:11 | |
accusations were made, and you will
be able to make them anonymously, | 0:27:11 | 0:27:14 | |
and we're going to have special
sexual harassment panels and a | 0:27:14 | 0:27:18 | |
special process for dealing with it.
And I think all parties could learn | 0:27:18 | 0:27:21 | |
from that. But this is not a problem
for any particular party or fraction | 0:27:21 | 0:27:27 | |
of a party, it runs right across
Parliament. That said, Jared O'Mara, | 0:27:27 | 0:27:32 | |
when did the Labour Party know about
what he said? Well, when I heard | 0:27:32 | 0:27:35 | |
about it was last Monday. He came
and apologised and a lot of people | 0:27:35 | 0:27:44 | |
took his apology quite seriously and
then on Tuesday we had more | 0:27:44 | 0:27:47 | |
information and he was suspended and
the Labour Party is looking at it. | 0:27:47 | 0:27:51 | |
There was a text which suggested the
Labour Party was told this month ago | 0:27:51 | 0:27:54 | |
and didn't do anything? I don't know
anything about that. The party knew | 0:27:54 | 0:27:59 | |
about it as far as I know, when the
allegations became public, last | 0:27:59 | 0:28:03 | |
week. This is an internal party
issue. We are not hearing any sense | 0:28:03 | 0:28:08 | |
to sit in judgment without knowing
the facts over anybody, but | 0:28:08 | 0:28:11 | |
nevertheless, if these kinds of
things were said by any Labour MP, | 0:28:11 | 0:28:15 | |
should they stay as an MP? You're
talking about the language and the | 0:28:15 | 0:28:19 | |
tone? Yes. Yes. That language and
that town is not acceptable in 2017. | 0:28:19 | 0:28:28 | |
We have now moved on, and the Labour
Party is fairly clear that we're | 0:28:28 | 0:28:33 | |
going to be a party with zero
tolerance for sexual harassment. Do | 0:28:33 | 0:28:36 | |
you think Jared O'Mara can stay as a
Labour MP? I can't judge, because | 0:28:36 | 0:28:42 | |
I've not seen the evidence. What I
would say is that that language and | 0:28:42 | 0:28:50 | |
that tone is unacceptable. The party
has moved on. And you know, where | 0:28:50 | 0:28:55 | |
you have that sort of language and
that sort of harassment and sexual | 0:28:55 | 0:29:00 | |
micro-aggression, it demeans and
diminishes all women - that's why | 0:29:00 | 0:29:05 | |
it's important to take a strong
line. I don't know if you heard | 0:29:05 | 0:29:08 | |
Michael Gove's comments, which have
been all over the press - do you | 0:29:08 | 0:29:13 | |
think it is an overreaction to those
comments? I heard it and I didn't | 0:29:13 | 0:29:17 | |
think it was funny. You know,
particularly in Parliament, making | 0:29:17 | 0:29:23 | |
sexual harassment the joke is not...
We've got to realise that it's | 0:29:23 | 0:29:29 | |
demeaning for women and undermines
the institution. What about somebody | 0:29:29 | 0:29:33 | |
else who is much closer to you, John
McDonnell, I think you were actually | 0:29:33 | 0:29:37 | |
at the meeting, and he said, why are
we sacking her? Why aren't we | 0:29:37 | 0:29:45 | |
lynching the...? I cannot use the
word on television. I wasn't at that | 0:29:45 | 0:29:51 | |
meeting, but I believe he was
quoting from somebody else. But let | 0:29:51 | 0:29:55 | |
me repeat, it undermines the case
against sexual abuse and harassment | 0:29:55 | 0:30:03 | |
if we try and make it a problem of a
particular party or fraction. I | 0:30:03 | 0:30:08 | |
absolutely accept that. I'm only
asking you because this is your bit | 0:30:08 | 0:30:11 | |
of the party and everybody has to
call people out on these kind of | 0:30:11 | 0:30:17 | |
things in their own institutions and
organisations. Jess Phillips, who is | 0:30:17 | 0:30:22 | |
chair of the women's PLP said, the
targets of this betrayal, we should | 0:30:22 | 0:30:28 | |
kill Thatcher, comment nominate
always seems to be the one that | 0:30:28 | 0:30:32 | |
these people are women -- the common
denominator? | 0:30:32 | 0:30:42 | |
Sexual abuse in the abuse of women
has been a problem for a very long | 0:30:42 | 0:30:46 | |
time. Including the left as well as
the right? Making this a party | 0:30:46 | 0:30:52 | |
political thing... I just want you
to acknowledge that it affects your | 0:30:52 | 0:30:57 | |
part of politics as well as the
other. One of the first things I | 0:30:57 | 0:31:01 | |
said was this is about Parliament as
a whole, not about any one party, | 0:31:01 | 0:31:05 | |
and I am sticking to that because
that is correct. Once you start to | 0:31:05 | 0:31:09 | |
make it a tit-for-tat,
finger-pointing, party faction of | 0:31:09 | 0:31:13 | |
thing, actually you undercut what
ought to be in move forward to | 0:31:13 | 0:31:19 | |
eliminate this type of talk from
Parliament as a whole. Did you think | 0:31:19 | 0:31:22 | |
this is a moment when the actual
culture is changing and that meant, | 0:31:22 | 0:31:26 | |
across Parliament, the BBC, anywhere
else, are now going to look at what | 0:31:26 | 0:31:30 | |
is on the front pages and change
their behaviour? I hope so, because | 0:31:30 | 0:31:35 | |
although Parliament has long had
this toxic climate as Jeremy | 0:31:35 | 0:31:39 | |
referred to yesterday, I don't
believe broadcasters all newspapers | 0:31:39 | 0:31:42 | |
are any better and I do hope that in
the aftermath of the revelations | 0:31:42 | 0:31:47 | |
about Harvey Weinstein and the film
industry, modelling, that old male | 0:31:47 | 0:31:53 | |
dominated professions will look at
the way women are treated, | 0:31:53 | 0:31:57 | |
disrespected, and spoken about, and
we can see a change in attitudes. We | 0:31:57 | 0:32:01 | |
have not spoken here since the
general election campaign. During | 0:32:01 | 0:32:05 | |
that campaign you were singled out
and treated very, very aggressively | 0:32:05 | 0:32:09 | |
by some parts of the media and
indeed other politicians, Theresa | 0:32:09 | 0:32:13 | |
May kept using your name, Diane
Abbott, Diane Abbott, Diane Abbott, | 0:32:13 | 0:32:17 | |
again and again and again. Do you
think you were unfairly singled out | 0:32:17 | 0:32:21 | |
or victimised during the campaign? I
know I was singled out early in the | 0:32:21 | 0:32:26 | |
campaign by a colleague fighting in
a constituency who said there were | 0:32:26 | 0:32:31 | |
lorries coming around her
constituency... Why do you think | 0:32:31 | 0:32:36 | |
that was? Also the tour we spent a
lot of money on targeted Facebook | 0:32:36 | 0:32:40 | |
advertising about me, I think they
spent more money on me than anybody | 0:32:40 | 0:32:44 | |
else. Do you think it was about the
colour of your skin? You would have | 0:32:44 | 0:32:49 | |
to ask them. There is no question
that of all the Labour front bench I | 0:32:49 | 0:32:54 | |
was singled out. The Daily Mail had
I think 12 pages on me, Jeremy said | 0:32:54 | 0:33:00 | |
they should do 24 pages next time to
get more votes. Did you ever think I | 0:33:00 | 0:33:08 | |
could put up with this any longer, I
will leave public life? It is | 0:33:08 | 0:33:12 | |
difficult but I have fantastic
support from my friends and family | 0:33:12 | 0:33:15 | |
and people in the constituency,
people are still very supportive | 0:33:15 | 0:33:19 | |
now. Fortunately British people are
better than the tabloid press and | 0:33:19 | 0:33:22 | |
some of their politicians. We
haven't even mentioned Brexit yet, | 0:33:22 | 0:33:26 | |
strange days! You have been very,
very clear that abolishing free | 0:33:26 | 0:33:32 | |
movement is connected in your future
anti-immigrant racism, and yet when | 0:33:32 | 0:33:38 | |
we leave the EU, which we will
almost certainly do in March 2019, | 0:33:38 | 0:33:42 | |
you may well be the person who ends
free movement. A lot of people who | 0:33:42 | 0:33:47 | |
voted for Brexit don't still
understand what the Labour Party's | 0:33:47 | 0:33:50 | |
position is going to be on free
movement and migration after we have | 0:33:50 | 0:33:54 | |
left the EU. First of all, lots of
perfectly respectable reasons to | 0:33:54 | 0:33:58 | |
vote for Brexit, Tony Benn would
have voted for Brexit, had he been | 0:33:58 | 0:34:03 | |
alive, he always argued for coming
out of the European Union. But there | 0:34:03 | 0:34:09 | |
is an anti-immigrant undercurrent,
the Nigel Farage narrative, which | 0:34:09 | 0:34:15 | |
was not something which Tony Benn
would have had any time for. When we | 0:34:15 | 0:34:19 | |
leave the single market, free
movement falls because free movement | 0:34:19 | 0:34:24 | |
is part of being in the single
market. So if you are a voter who | 0:34:24 | 0:34:30 | |
decided to vote for Brexit because
they wanted fewer people coming here | 0:34:30 | 0:34:33 | |
from the EU, will that happen under
a Labour Government? Under a Labour | 0:34:33 | 0:34:39 | |
Government, we will have fair rules,
managed migration, we will deal with | 0:34:39 | 0:34:45 | |
some of these predatory employers
using not just European Union | 0:34:45 | 0:34:51 | |
immigrants but immigrants from other
parts of the world to undercut | 0:34:51 | 0:34:54 | |
British workers, we will deal with
that and we have spoken about the | 0:34:54 | 0:34:57 | |
things we will do. To put it
brutally and coarsely, lots of | 0:34:57 | 0:35:01 | |
people out there would want fewer
Polish people, French people, | 0:35:01 | 0:35:05 | |
Spanish people, arriving here and
still don't know whether that would | 0:35:05 | 0:35:07 | |
be the case under Labour. People
want fair rules and managed | 0:35:07 | 0:35:12 | |
migration, but if they also want
eight jobs Brexit and a Brexit which | 0:35:12 | 0:35:17 | |
does not harm the economy, they
should be voting Labour. One final | 0:35:17 | 0:35:23 | |
question, in this morning's papers
you have seen a report that | 0:35:23 | 0:35:26 | |
prisoners will get the vote in some
circumstances, what is the Labour | 0:35:26 | 0:35:31 | |
position on that? The European Court
of Human Rights has said. Years that | 0:35:31 | 0:35:34 | |
we cannot stop all prisoners having
the vote, and the Labour Party | 0:35:34 | 0:35:39 | |
believes that we should indeed, in
the end, we have to support the | 0:35:39 | 0:35:46 | |
position of the European Court of
Human Rights. So prisoners should | 0:35:46 | 0:35:49 | |
have the boat? It is not whether
they should have the vote but | 0:35:49 | 0:35:53 | |
whether we should abide by the
European Court of Human Rights, and | 0:35:53 | 0:35:56 | |
I think abiding by the European
Court of Human Rights, whether we | 0:35:56 | 0:35:59 | |
are in the EU will not, abiding by
those human rights issues is very | 0:35:59 | 0:36:03 | |
much a tenet of the type of
socialism I believe in. One final | 0:36:03 | 0:36:07 | |
question, do you think a Labour
Government would or should recognise | 0:36:07 | 0:36:11 | |
the Catalans as an independent
state? A nice easy one for you! It | 0:36:11 | 0:36:18 | |
is a very difficult and tragic
situation. We would want to see it | 0:36:18 | 0:36:23 | |
resolved by negotiation and we would
want to see it resolved under the | 0:36:23 | 0:36:30 | |
laws and legislation of Spain. The
Government here has been clear there | 0:36:30 | 0:36:34 | |
would not recognise an independent
Catalonia, I wonder if the Labour | 0:36:34 | 0:36:37 | |
Party position is the same? We are
clear this has to be resolved by | 0:36:37 | 0:36:41 | |
negotiation. The pictures that we
saw of what happened when the | 0:36:41 | 0:36:44 | |
Catalans tried to have a referendum,
of violence, the police, they were | 0:36:44 | 0:36:50 | |
dreadful, no one wants to see those
in a fellow European country. All of | 0:36:50 | 0:36:54 | |
this is true but not quite an answer
to my question. We believe that the | 0:36:54 | 0:36:58 | |
situation should be resolved by
negotiation, it is not for us to cut | 0:36:58 | 0:37:02 | |
across the laws and constitution is
of another country. Diane Abbott, | 0:37:02 | 0:37:06 | |
thank you very much indeed for
talking to us. | 0:37:06 | 0:37:09 | |
Coming up later this morning
on the Sunday Politics, | 0:37:09 | 0:37:11 | |
Sarah Smith talks to the chair
of the Brexit committee, | 0:37:11 | 0:37:13 | |
Hilary Benn, and former
Cabinet Minister Theresa Villiers | 0:37:13 | 0:37:15 | |
on airport expansion. | 0:37:15 | 0:37:16 | |
That's the Sunday Politics at 11am. | 0:37:16 | 0:37:20 | |
Theresa May says that,
for far too long, mental health has | 0:37:20 | 0:37:23 | |
been disregarded compared
to physical health in this country, | 0:37:23 | 0:37:25 | |
and things need to change. | 0:37:25 | 0:37:28 | |
She's promising to defeat
the stigma of mental illness. | 0:37:28 | 0:37:30 | |
But what, over the last seven years,
is the actual Tory record on this? | 0:37:30 | 0:37:34 | |
The Health Secretary,
Jeremy Hunt, is with me. | 0:37:34 | 0:37:40 | |
Welcome, Mr Hunt. Can I ask you, on
your watch, has provision for mental | 0:37:40 | 0:37:44 | |
health got better or worse? It has
got better but needs to get a lot | 0:37:44 | 0:37:48 | |
better still. We are treating now
1400 more people every day, seeing a | 0:37:48 | 0:37:54 | |
real increase in resources hitting
the front line, but when we made | 0:37:54 | 0:37:59 | |
that historic change in the law in
2012 when we said that we wanted to | 0:37:59 | 0:38:04 | |
end the terrible injustice of the
fact that if you break a leg you get | 0:38:04 | 0:38:08 | |
treated immediately in A&E but if
you have a mental health crisis you | 0:38:08 | 0:38:11 | |
might have to wait weeks or months
to be seen, to change that is going | 0:38:11 | 0:38:16 | |
to take a bit of time and we are
making progress on the right | 0:38:16 | 0:38:20 | |
direction but there is a lot more to
do. You say it is getting better. | 0:38:20 | 0:38:24 | |
For a young person who may have an
anxiety disorder, depression, an | 0:38:24 | 0:38:28 | |
eating disorder or whatever, how
long should they have to wait before | 0:38:28 | 0:38:31 | |
they are seen by the NHS? We have
said for an eating disorder we have | 0:38:31 | 0:38:35 | |
introduced a waiting time standard,
I think we are the first country in | 0:38:35 | 0:38:40 | |
the world to do that for eating
disorders, we have said if it is an | 0:38:40 | 0:38:43 | |
emergency they should be seen the
same week but you should certainly | 0:38:43 | 0:38:46 | |
be seen within four weeks. We are
setting up a series of eating | 0:38:46 | 0:38:50 | |
disorder units across the country...
Psychosis, depression? On psychosis, | 0:38:50 | 0:38:57 | |
again, we are the first country in
the world to set up a waiting time | 0:38:57 | 0:39:00 | |
standard for your first incident of
psychosis but in order to deliver | 0:39:00 | 0:39:04 | |
that we have to train up staff,
trained psychiatrist, mental health | 0:39:04 | 0:39:08 | |
nurses, that is why I announced in
July and additional 21,000 posts | 0:39:08 | 0:39:14 | |
that we will be recruiting for in
the NHS in order to deliver those. | 0:39:14 | 0:39:18 | |
The quality care commission did a
study on this and found some young | 0:39:18 | 0:39:22 | |
people were waiting 18 months for
any kind of treatment? That is | 0:39:22 | 0:39:26 | |
totally unacceptable and that is why
a couple of years ago we put | 0:39:26 | 0:39:29 | |
together a big report, authored by
Paul Farmer, the chief executive of | 0:39:29 | 0:39:35 | |
Mind, as to how we make progress
towards this parity of esteem, and | 0:39:35 | 0:39:39 | |
what we said was that, by 2020, 21,
we would aim to treat 1 million more | 0:39:39 | 0:39:45 | |
people every year, £1 billion extra
resources into mental health, but | 0:39:45 | 0:39:49 | |
that it would take some time to get
there because of the training of new | 0:39:49 | 0:39:53 | |
staff, expansion of capacity that we
need. We are, as I say, making good | 0:39:53 | 0:39:58 | |
progress in delivering that. You
make it all sound very sunny but The | 0:39:58 | 0:40:03 | |
Children's Society said 30,000
children were turned away in a year, | 0:40:03 | 0:40:07 | |
getting no help at all from the NHS,
and if we look at the resources | 0:40:07 | 0:40:11 | |
problem, it comes down to resources,
when you came to power can you | 0:40:11 | 0:40:16 | |
remember how many mental health
nurses there were? I think you are | 0:40:16 | 0:40:18 | |
going to tell me the number has gone
down. By 5000, a lot. Let me explain | 0:40:18 | 0:40:24 | |
why. Over the last five years we
have been dealing with the terrible | 0:40:24 | 0:40:28 | |
problems that we had in Mid-Staffs
and what that meant what we needed | 0:40:28 | 0:40:32 | |
to get more nurses into hospital
wards. Over that period we had | 0:40:32 | 0:40:36 | |
11,000 more nurses in the NHS as a
whole but they have tended to go | 0:40:36 | 0:40:41 | |
into hospitals where we had an
urgent problem to deal with. Overall | 0:40:41 | 0:40:44 | |
in terms of mental health staff,
those working in mental health | 0:40:44 | 0:40:47 | |
trust, we have got more than seven
years ago so we are expanding the | 0:40:47 | 0:40:52 | |
numbers... Was it a mistake to take
out 5000 mental health nurses? It | 0:40:52 | 0:41:00 | |
was not a conscious decision, we had
a crisis and realised a number of | 0:41:00 | 0:41:04 | |
hospitals across the country were
unsafe so we had a big effort to | 0:41:04 | 0:41:07 | |
make them safe and I think that has
borne fruit. But the unintended | 0:41:07 | 0:41:13 | |
consequence was pressure on mental
health nursing and the overall | 0:41:13 | 0:41:15 | |
lesson was we don't have enough
nurses and that is why at the | 0:41:15 | 0:41:18 | |
Conservative party conference a few
weeks ago I announced a 25% increase | 0:41:18 | 0:41:22 | |
in the number of nurse training
places, because the fact is we need | 0:41:22 | 0:41:26 | |
more nurses. Given that you could
the nurses in the first place, it | 0:41:26 | 0:41:32 | |
does seem as if Jeremy Hunt has
decided to clear up the mess made by | 0:41:32 | 0:41:36 | |
Jeremy Hunt. With respect, we have
11,000 more nurses now in the NHS | 0:41:36 | 0:41:40 | |
than when I became health
secretaries of the one thing you | 0:41:40 | 0:41:43 | |
cannot say is that I have not
prioritised the importance of nurses | 0:41:43 | 0:41:46 | |
in delivering safe care. We also
have more people working in mental | 0:41:46 | 0:41:50 | |
health. There has been a specific
issue on mental health nursing but | 0:41:50 | 0:41:54 | |
we are sorting that out. What about
beds, because it is more or less the | 0:41:54 | 0:42:03 | |
same story, 7500 put in mental
health beds, for instance. There are | 0:42:03 | 0:42:05 | |
two things going on, the first is
that we know that it is much better, | 0:42:05 | 0:42:11 | |
if you can, to treat someone with
severe mental health problems in the | 0:42:11 | 0:42:14 | |
community where they are properly
looked after, often by NHS staff, | 0:42:14 | 0:42:18 | |
than it is in what we used to have,
the old asylums, so there is a trend | 0:42:18 | 0:42:23 | |
away from hospital care. Yet there
are people who need hospital care, | 0:42:23 | 0:42:28 | |
June the 1st last year there was a
moment in London when, if you were a | 0:42:28 | 0:42:32 | |
young person with a mental health
problem, there was not a single | 0:42:32 | 0:42:35 | |
hospital bed available for you in
London, the capital of one of the | 0:42:35 | 0:42:39 | |
world -- the capital, and one of the
world's greatest cities. That is | 0:42:39 | 0:42:44 | |
scandal. We have a problem with what
is called the tier four bed and we | 0:42:44 | 0:42:51 | |
have increased those in response to
those issues. What is most | 0:42:51 | 0:42:55 | |
unacceptable is if you are a young
person and need to be an NHS | 0:42:55 | 0:43:01 | |
inpatient in a mental health
organisation, to have to go to the | 0:43:01 | 0:43:04 | |
other side of the country, because
what matters in terms of your | 0:43:04 | 0:43:07 | |
recovery is that you can be visited
by parents or friends... That is | 0:43:07 | 0:43:10 | |
happening again and again because of
the lack of nurses and beds on your | 0:43:10 | 0:43:14 | |
watch. Andrew, I think you are
mis-characterising what has happened | 0:43:14 | 0:43:18 | |
because there is more money, more
people working in mental health, we | 0:43:18 | 0:43:22 | |
are increasing the number of beds
particularly for younger people, but | 0:43:22 | 0:43:26 | |
Rome wasn't built in a day and if we
are going to achieve Theresa May's | 0:43:26 | 0:43:31 | |
ambition of full parity of esteem
between mental and physical help | 0:43:31 | 0:43:34 | |
then we are going to need to train
up many, many more people to deliver | 0:43:34 | 0:43:37 | |
that. That is what we are doing, and
we are absolutely determined to end | 0:43:37 | 0:43:42 | |
this injustice that we have at the
moment. Seven years to end this | 0:43:42 | 0:43:47 | |
injustice, you are entering your
sixth year as Health Secretary, | 0:43:47 | 0:43:51 | |
which makes you the third longest in
the post since neither them, and I | 0:43:51 | 0:43:56 | |
can't under who else... Norman
Fowler. One of the longest serving | 0:43:56 | 0:44:03 | |
Health Secretary. Do not recognise
that given the cuts in bed and | 0:44:03 | 0:44:07 | |
nurses over time, part of the crisis
has happened on your watch and is a | 0:44:07 | 0:44:10 | |
result of the cuts made at the
beginning of your time? Andrew, you | 0:44:10 | 0:44:14 | |
are only painting a limited picture.
What has actually happened on my | 0:44:14 | 0:44:18 | |
watch is the biggest expansion of
mental health provision in Europe. | 0:44:18 | 0:44:22 | |
Other countries are looking at what
we are doing... Forgive me, if not | 0:44:22 | 0:44:26 | |
the bed and nurses, where is the
expansion taking place? For example, | 0:44:26 | 0:44:33 | |
treatment on anxiety and depression,
what we are doing now is considered | 0:44:33 | 0:44:36 | |
world leading, being copied by the
Swedes, who are looking to import | 0:44:36 | 0:44:39 | |
what we are doing on psychological
therapy into Stockholm. Overall, we | 0:44:39 | 0:44:43 | |
are treating, I am saying this for
the second time because I don't | 0:44:43 | 0:44:47 | |
think it registered, 1400 more
people every day, there is a big | 0:44:47 | 0:44:51 | |
expansion, 3000 more people working
in talking therapies... People | 0:44:51 | 0:44:55 | |
outside saying so many different
things. | 0:44:55 | 0:45:06 | |
The president of the family board,
I'm sure you will remember the case | 0:45:12 | 0:45:15 | |
of a 17-year-old girl who was a
recital and about to be released and | 0:45:15 | 0:45:18 | |
he condemned the disgraceful and
utterly shaming black of proper | 0:45:18 | 0:45:20 | |
provision in this country and he
said, we, the system, society and | 0:45:20 | 0:45:22 | |
the state will have blood on our
hands. Things then changed for that | 0:45:22 | 0:45:25 | |
girl but he took -- but it took a
High Court judge to say that | 0:45:25 | 0:45:28 | |
publicly and come to the Secretary
of State to get changes. And he was | 0:45:28 | 0:45:30 | |
right to say that but that is why we
are changing. In the last year, for | 0:45:30 | 0:45:34 | |
example, we are spending over half
£1 billion more on mental health in | 0:45:34 | 0:45:36 | |
the NHS, at a time when, as you
know, NHS resources are very | 0:45:36 | 0:45:40 | |
constrained, but the reality is,
because we are proud to offer a | 0:45:40 | 0:45:45 | |
service that is free at the point of
use in the NHS, and rightly so, | 0:45:45 | 0:45:50 | |
there is huge untapped demand for
mental health provision and we know | 0:45:50 | 0:45:54 | |
now that you can, in many cases,
make a mental illness completely | 0:45:54 | 0:45:59 | |
better, and because people
understand that there are lots of | 0:45:59 | 0:46:03 | |
people who want NHS care, but it
will not be solved overnight and we | 0:46:03 | 0:46:06 | |
have to be honest with the British
people, our plan is 2020-21, we will | 0:46:06 | 0:46:12 | |
deliver the Paul Farmer plan and be
tweeting more people every year, we | 0:46:12 | 0:46:16 | |
are on track to do that but it will
not happen overnight, there is no | 0:46:16 | 0:46:20 | |
silver bullet, I'm afraid it takes
time. | 0:46:20 | 0:46:32 | |
You have been at Westminster for a
very long time and you have heard | 0:46:32 | 0:46:37 | |
all of the stories, what you think
about them? These stories if they | 0:46:37 | 0:46:44 | |
are true are totally unacceptable.
The Cabinet Office will be | 0:46:44 | 0:46:48 | |
conducting an investigation as to
whether there has been a breach of | 0:46:48 | 0:46:52 | |
the ministerial code in this
particular case. The facts are | 0:46:52 | 0:46:56 | |
disputed, obviously. But there are
mums and dads who have daughters who | 0:46:56 | 0:47:02 | |
are politics students hoping to get
a job in Westminster. They must be | 0:47:02 | 0:47:05 | |
able to be confident that if they
get that job, their daughter will | 0:47:05 | 0:47:07 | |
not be subject to some of these
behaviours, so it's absolutely | 0:47:07 | 0:47:11 | |
essential that we sort this out.
Nobody wants trial by television, | 0:47:11 | 0:47:14 | |
but nonetheless the Mysterio code
covers this area, does it? It does, | 0:47:14 | 0:47:18 | |
this area and many others. But I
think it is important, you were | 0:47:18 | 0:47:23 | |
having the same discussion with
Diane Abbott, and the other point to | 0:47:23 | 0:47:26 | |
make is that this is something which
covers behaviour by MPs of all | 0:47:26 | 0:47:32 | |
parties, and that's why the other
thing that's going to happen is that | 0:47:32 | 0:47:36 | |
today, Theresa May is going to write
to the Speaker to ask for his advice | 0:47:36 | 0:47:40 | |
as to how we change that culture. I
would agree with Diane Abbott, I | 0:47:40 | 0:47:44 | |
think things have got better in
recent years, but there's still a | 0:47:44 | 0:47:48 | |
long way to go. Do you agree with
John Mann that there should be some | 0:47:48 | 0:47:52 | |
kind of miss entry character who
receives allegations of this nature, | 0:47:52 | 0:47:55 | |
logs into them in private, a place
that people can go? Well, I think | 0:47:55 | 0:48:02 | |
there is merit in the idea of having
someone anonymously or you can talk | 0:48:02 | 0:48:07 | |
to if you're unhappy about the way
you've been treated. But I think | 0:48:07 | 0:48:10 | |
these things need to be looked at
probably by the Speaker, because | 0:48:10 | 0:48:14 | |
it's about the conduct of Parliament
has a whole. Let's turn back to the | 0:48:14 | 0:48:20 | |
NHS. Normally in these interviews, I
have statistics and you have | 0:48:20 | 0:48:23 | |
statistics and we throw them at each
other! We've already done that! So, | 0:48:23 | 0:48:29 | |
let's do something slightly
different and ask you to listen to | 0:48:29 | 0:48:34 | |
the test any of a nurse who spoke to
Newsnight last week, and this is | 0:48:34 | 0:48:37 | |
what she said. The way that things
have become in A&E over the last two | 0:48:37 | 0:48:41 | |
years, we're at breaking point, it
can't carry on. Queues on the | 0:48:41 | 0:48:46 | |
corridor and the situation that the
patients are in and that the | 0:48:46 | 0:48:49 | |
department is in, it's unsafe. We're
probably seeing about 100 patients | 0:48:49 | 0:48:55 | |
more per day than we were a year
ago. It just seems to be acceptable | 0:48:55 | 0:48:59 | |
to treat people on the corridor, and
it's not be defied, really, is it? | 0:48:59 | 0:49:06 | |
To see the NHS as it is now, erm, I
don't see it getting any better. In | 0:49:06 | 0:49:13 | |
my eyes, it's just going to get
worse. Now, that's how it feels from | 0:49:13 | 0:49:18 | |
the perspective of one nurse in
Birmingham. What would you say to | 0:49:18 | 0:49:21 | |
that? Well, I listen to that with a
great deal of sympathy, because I | 0:49:21 | 0:49:26 | |
think she speaks for a lot of people
who feel an enormous amount of | 0:49:26 | 0:49:31 | |
stress on the front line, our
hospitals have never been busier, | 0:49:31 | 0:49:35 | |
our NHS staff have never worked
harder. We have this enormous | 0:49:35 | 0:49:39 | |
pressure of an ageing population,
and there is no doubt that we are | 0:49:39 | 0:49:43 | |
going to need to find more money for
the NHS in the years ahead of us, | 0:49:43 | 0:49:47 | |
because we have a million more over
Max Evans fives coming down the | 0:49:47 | 0:49:53 | |
railway track in the next decade.
And what do we want? We want the NHS | 0:49:53 | 0:49:56 | |
to be the safest and best health
service anywhere in the world. As a | 0:49:56 | 0:50:02 | |
Conservative, I believe that good
public services are moral purpose of | 0:50:02 | 0:50:08 | |
a strong capitalist economy, that's
why we do it. And so what we need to | 0:50:08 | 0:50:12 | |
do as a government is to make sure
the NHS gets the resources it needs, | 0:50:12 | 0:50:16 | |
and that has been very difficult
because of the financial situation | 0:50:16 | 0:50:19 | |
the country is in. But over the last
few years we've started to seize | 0:50:19 | 0:50:25 | |
some increases, and we need to
address that nurse's concerns, | 0:50:25 | 0:50:30 | |
because what she wants is what I
want, which is to make sure we give | 0:50:30 | 0:50:33 | |
patients the very best care. The
last time we spoke you said that it | 0:50:33 | 0:50:38 | |
was very clear that the NHS does
need more resources. You're just | 0:50:38 | 0:50:43 | |
about to lift the 1% cap on NHS pay,
which will delight a lot of people | 0:50:43 | 0:50:48 | |
working in the NHS - are they
actually going to get a pay | 0:50:48 | 0:50:53 | |
increase? Well, we have the
independent pay review body which | 0:50:53 | 0:50:56 | |
looks at this, and it would be one
for me on how to give you a view as | 0:50:56 | 0:51:00 | |
to where I think that process will
end up, because I want to hear what | 0:51:00 | 0:51:04 | |
the independent experts say would be
a fair pay rise. But one of the | 0:51:04 | 0:51:09 | |
things which is behind the
frustration of that nurse and others | 0:51:09 | 0:51:13 | |
is that they have had pay restraint
for many, many years, and they want | 0:51:13 | 0:51:17 | |
to see some recognition of the very
hard work they do. So, even a 3% | 0:51:17 | 0:51:24 | |
rise would not actually be a pay
rise for most people, given | 0:51:24 | 0:51:27 | |
inflation. But to give people a
sense, how much would a 3% rise cost | 0:51:27 | 0:51:34 | |
the NHS? It would probably be £1
billion, so it's a serious amount of | 0:51:34 | 0:51:39 | |
it. The Chancellor has said that if
we can have a negotiation and look | 0:51:39 | 0:51:45 | |
at some of the ways that we can
improve productivity at the same | 0:51:45 | 0:51:49 | |
time condo he's willing to have a
discussion with me about finding | 0:51:49 | 0:51:53 | |
extra resources. This is the crucial
question. You've got mental health, | 0:51:53 | 0:51:59 | |
many other things, and now the pay
pressure as well - are you going to | 0:51:59 | 0:52:04 | |
be able to marry this with the new
money from the Chancellor which | 0:52:04 | 0:52:07 | |
allows you to pay people more
without actually cutting back | 0:52:07 | 0:52:10 | |
elsewhere in hospitals? Well, this
government is absolutely committed | 0:52:10 | 0:52:14 | |
to making our NHS the safest and
best health care system. We | 0:52:14 | 0:52:19 | |
recognise there's a lot of work to
do in mental health and many other | 0:52:19 | 0:52:22 | |
areas as well. I will be making a
very robust case for the NHS to get | 0:52:22 | 0:52:26 | |
the resources it needs, as I'm sure
other Cabinet ministers will be | 0:52:26 | 0:52:30 | |
doing for their departments. But
when it comes to money for the NHS, | 0:52:30 | 0:52:35 | |
every week we have avoidable death,
avoidable harm in the NHS. That is | 0:52:35 | 0:52:40 | |
nothing to do with resources, at
least not principally to do with | 0:52:40 | 0:52:44 | |
resources. If we're going to be the
best, we have to have a culture of | 0:52:44 | 0:52:49 | |
safety and quality which comes from
the inside, as well as the cheque | 0:52:49 | 0:52:54 | |
from the Chancellor. The two need to
go together. The CQC say that the | 0:52:54 | 0:53:02 | |
care is getting safer. The
Commonwealth Fund and the | 0:53:02 | 0:53:06 | |
independent think-tank say the NHS
is the best health care system in | 0:53:06 | 0:53:09 | |
the world. So, the final thing I
would say to that nurse is, yes, we | 0:53:09 | 0:53:14 | |
face enormous pressures, but we're
not the only country. Our NHS and | 0:53:14 | 0:53:19 | |
our values put us in a better place
to deal with those pressures than | 0:53:19 | 0:53:23 | |
many other countries. Perhaps it is
because we ask the NHS to do so much | 0:53:23 | 0:53:28 | |
and we do relatively little
ourselves. There was an interesting | 0:53:28 | 0:53:34 | |
experiment in Hertfordshire, saying
to people that if they want | 0:53:34 | 0:53:37 | |
nonurgent operations, they can't
have it while they're still smoking. | 0:53:37 | 0:53:41 | |
They're going to Brecel lies them to
check that they have not been | 0:53:41 | 0:53:44 | |
smoking for six weeks before the
operation - do you think that kind | 0:53:44 | 0:53:47 | |
of thing is a good idea? I do think
that we have to allow some local | 0:53:47 | 0:53:54 | |
discretion in these areas. There are
a number of operations where your | 0:53:54 | 0:53:57 | |
recovery is a lot quicker if you're
not a smoker. The thinking behind | 0:53:57 | 0:54:02 | |
these kind of scheme is that you
will have better surgical outcomes | 0:54:02 | 0:54:05 | |
if you do this... It is not
something I would suggest for the | 0:54:05 | 0:54:10 | |
whole NHS, we need to see if it
works in Hertfordshire. It's more | 0:54:10 | 0:54:13 | |
the general philosophical question,
if you drink, if you smoke - these | 0:54:13 | 0:54:19 | |
things should be taken into account,
a kind of deal between you and the | 0:54:19 | 0:54:23 | |
NHS? I think I believe in a taxpayer
funded system, where care is not | 0:54:23 | 0:54:30 | |
rushing and everybody pays their
taxes. But I also believe in | 0:54:30 | 0:54:33 | |
personal responsibility. And I think
we all have responsibility in terms | 0:54:33 | 0:54:37 | |
of the lifestyle that we lead, to
ourselves and also to our fellow | 0:54:37 | 0:54:43 | |
citizens, and also in terms of the
pressures that are being put on the | 0:54:43 | 0:54:46 | |
NHS. But I think British citizens
understand that, because the NHS | 0:54:46 | 0:54:52 | |
belongs to all of us, and we all
need to do our bit to make sure that | 0:54:52 | 0:54:56 | |
we don't exacerbate the pressures
which are very real. There has been | 0:54:56 | 0:55:00 | |
quite a dramatic crop in the number
of nurses coming into the NHS from | 0:55:00 | 0:55:03 | |
the rest of the EU after the Brexit
vote - are you worried about that? I | 0:55:03 | 0:55:09 | |
think, of course, Brexit brings a
number of concerns to the NHS. What | 0:55:09 | 0:55:17 | |
I always try to do is to reassure
the brilliant doctors and nurses | 0:55:17 | 0:55:21 | |
from the EU who are working in the
NHS that they do a fantastic job, we | 0:55:21 | 0:55:27 | |
want you to stay and we're very
confident that you will be able to | 0:55:27 | 0:55:29 | |
stay. But in a period of difficult
negotiations, it's probably not | 0:55:29 | 0:55:33 | |
surprising that you're going to have
some tailing off of applications | 0:55:33 | 0:55:37 | |
from people from other countries,
not least because they have their | 0:55:37 | 0:55:42 | |
own ageing populations, and
countries like Spain and Portugal | 0:55:42 | 0:55:45 | |
are recruiting nurses in significant
numbers for the first time in a | 0:55:45 | 0:55:47 | |
while. John McDonnell has been in
touch to make it absolutely clear | 0:55:47 | 0:55:52 | |
that he was repeating comments other
people had made about lynching | 0:55:52 | 0:55:57 | |
Esther McVey. He wanted to clarify
that. | 0:55:57 | 0:56:03 | |
Now, a look at what's coming up
straight after this programme. | 0:56:03 | 0:56:07 | |
How tough should we be on British
jihadists coming back after fighting | 0:56:07 | 0:56:12 | |
with Islamic State? And forest
bathing, the latest way to de-stress | 0:56:12 | 0:56:19 | |
by getting to know a tree! All of
that coming up. | 0:56:19 | 0:56:23 | |
Almost out of time for today. | 0:56:23 | 0:56:26 | |
Next week, I'll be talking
to the Queen - well, OK, | 0:56:26 | 0:56:29 | |
not exactly the Queen,
but the wonderful Olivia Colman, | 0:56:29 | 0:56:31 | |
who's going to be playing her. | 0:56:31 | 0:56:32 | |
Lucky Queen. | 0:56:32 | 0:56:33 | |
We leave you now with
a maverick star of Americana. | 0:56:33 | 0:56:36 | |
Grammy Award winner Jason Isbell
is one of the few recording artists | 0:56:36 | 0:56:38 | |
who is completely
independent of any label. | 0:56:38 | 0:56:40 | |
The Nashville Sound,
an acclaimed new album, | 0:56:40 | 0:56:44 | |
sees him touring the UK
with his band 400 Unit. | 0:56:44 | 0:56:46 | |
He's here this morning
with If We Were Vampires. | 0:56:46 | 0:56:48 | |
Goodbye. | 0:56:48 | 0:56:49 | |
# It's not the long flowing
dress that you're in | 0:56:49 | 0:56:53 | |
# Or the light coming off
of your skin | 0:56:53 | 0:56:58 | |
# The fragile heart
you protected for so long | 0:56:58 | 0:57:03 | |
# Or the mercy in your
sense of right and wrong | 0:57:03 | 0:57:08 | |
# It's not your hands,
searching slow in the dark | 0:57:08 | 0:57:12 | |
# Or your nails leaving
love's watermark | 0:57:12 | 0:57:17 | |
# It's not the way you
talk me off the roof | 0:57:17 | 0:57:23 | |
# Your questions like
directions to the truth | 0:57:23 | 0:57:28 | |
# It's knowing that this
can't go on forever | 0:57:28 | 0:57:37 | |
# Likely one of us will have
to spend some days alone | 0:57:37 | 0:57:40 | |
# Maybe we'll get 40 years together | 0:57:40 | 0:57:45 | |
# But one day I'll be gone
or one day you'll be gone | 0:57:45 | 0:57:48 | |
# If we were vampires
and death was a joke | 0:57:48 | 0:57:52 | |
# We'd go out
on the sidewalk and smoke | 0:57:52 | 0:57:57 | |
# And laugh at all the
lovers and their plans | 0:57:57 | 0:58:02 | |
# I wouldn't feel the need
to hold your hand | 0:58:02 | 0:58:07 | |
# Maybe time running out
is a gift | 0:58:07 | 0:58:11 | |
# I'll work hard
'til the end of my shift | 0:58:11 | 0:58:17 | |
# And give
you every second I can find | 0:58:17 | 0:58:22 | |
# And hope it isn't
me who's left behind | 0:58:22 | 0:58:28 | |
# It's knowing that this
can't go on forever | 0:58:28 | 0:58:33 | |
# Likely one of us will have
to spend some days alone | 0:58:33 | 0:58:38 | |
# Maybe we'll get 40 years together | 0:58:38 | 0:58:42 | |
# But one day I'll be gone
or one day you'll be gone | 0:58:42 | 0:58:50 |