05/11/2017 The Andrew Marr Show

Remember, remember,

the 5th of November.

Backbiting, leaking and plot.

If this lot gets clear to November

next year, it's all down to

luck, quite a lot.

Now, both major parties

have been rocked by

allegations of gross

misbehaviour by their MPs.

To talk about that and more

I'm joined by the Home

Secretary Amber Rudd,

and Labour's Women and Equalities

Secretary Dawn Butler.

But for those of you wondering

what else is happening in the world

beyond Westminster, I'm talking

to Israel's Prime Minister, Benjamin

Netanyahu - about the peace process,

Iran, and anti-Semitism in Britain.

And, as it happens, the story

from that new blockbuster Murder

on the Orient Express

opens in Jerusalem.

I've been talking to two

of its stars, Michelle Pfeiffer

and Olivia Colman, who told me her

reaction to

landing the role of the Queen

in Netflix's The Crown.

Then my agent said,

"Would you go and meet - it's a

secret," and she was

trying to be subtle -

and I went, "The Crown,

The

Crown, oh, my God, yeah!"

And reviewing the news

this morning, the

former Tory Defence

Minister Anna Soubry, Sam

Coates, the deputy political

editor of the Times,

and the Labour MP Kate Hoey.

But first the news

with Roger Johnson.

Good morning.

Theresa May's most senior minister,

Damian Green,

The

has denied that pornography

was found on a computer

when his Westminster office

was raided by police in 2008.

The claim, made by a former

senior police officer,

is reported in the Sunday Times.

Mr Green, who is First Secretary

of State, said the allegation

was completely untrue, and

came from an untrustworthy source.

More allegations have emerged about

the conduct of MPs this morning,

as our political correspondent

Iain Watson reports.

That allegation in the Sunday

Times that pornography

was found on a computer

in Damian Green's office

dates from 2008.

This was during a controversial

inquiry into Home Office

leaks, which briefly led

to Mr Green's arrest.

As Theresa May's second-in-command,

she wouldn't want to lose him

from her Cabinet, and he's responded

robustly to the allegation.

In a statement, he said,

"This story is completely untrue."

He called it "A disreputable

political smear."

He added...

In turn, he accuses the officer

in charge of the investigation nine

years ago, Bob Quick,

of breaching his duty

to keep the details

of the investigation confidential.

Mr Quick has been

unavailable for comment.

This weekend allegations of improper

behaviour in and around Westminster

have been filling the front pages,

and even when ministers resign

that's rarely the end of the story.

Another allegation has

emerged about Sir Michael

Fallon's past behaviour -

in the Observer newspaper

the journalist Jane Merrick said

she informed Downing Street this

week of an incident in 2003.

And hours later he resigned

as Defence Secretary.

Friends of some Michael Fallon have

denied the allegation,

but it is understood his ministerial

career ended because he couldn't

guarantee they would be no

further revelations.

Iain Watson, BBC News.

President Trump has arrived

in Japan, the first stop on what

will be the longest tour of Asia

by a US President in 25 years.

Mr Trump's trip comes at a time

of heightened tensions

with North Korea over its nuclear

programme and missile tests.

He's already met the Japanese

Prime Minister Shinzo Abe at

a country club for a round of golf.

Social media giants must do more

to stop child sexual exploitation,

the Home Secretary has said,

as new Government figures show

a rise in indecent images

of children being reported

to the police.

Writing in the Sun on Sunday,

Amber Rudd, a guest on this

programme in a moment,

said that companies

have a moral duty to go further

and faster in tackling abuse.

Technology firms insist

they're doing their utmost

to keep their young users safe.

That's all from me.

The next news on BBC One

is at one o'clock.

Back to you, Andrew.

Thank you, Roger.

Now to the papers.

and on and

-- and there is the Jane Merrick

story about that incident some time

ago. And this is on the role of the

whips in all this, have they

released information as quickly as

they should have to the Prime

Minister, or is it indeed all being

driven by press? Top Tory's

bathrobe... That very same story

about the Damian Green in

pornography shock, the story he has

denied. We will start with you.

Yes,

if you had told me a week ago I

would be reading a statement from

the de facto Deputy Prime Minister

like this I would have laughed it

off, but this is no laughing matter.

Last night Damian Green released

under him and statement denying a

number of allegations appearing in

these newspapers this morning. He

said suggestions there was some kind

of pornography on equipment that was

seized from his office in 2009 is

completely Andre -- untrue. This is

an week he released.

Bob quick is

named on the front page of the

Sunday Times.

Yes, the former head

of counterterrorism who lost his job

some years ago, and he essentially

blames him for, as it were,

political smear, and denies the

allegation covering the front page

of the Sunday Times.

Sam, going back

to the origins of all this, when the

Tories were in opposition and I

think Damian Green was the

spokesperson on home affairs he got

a series of leaks from the Home

Office which the then Labour

Government sent the Home Office into

enquire about and they were sent

into his office, huge investigation

and he was exonerated and so on, but

this goes back to them because the

man leading the hunt was the same Mr

Quick is on the front page of the

Times.

The allegation, which Mr

Green denies, was that on one of the

laptops seized as part of that raid

there was deeply unpleasant, not

illegal, but unpleasant images, the

sort of thing that would perhaps

mean you could no longer continue in

your job if it was a public official

and on their laptop, but

nevertheless so problematic.

I am

trying to be as fair as possible.

This was a laptop in his office.

There was no understanding it was

actually him... If the material was

there it could have been somebody

else, people in and out of the

office and working for them all the

time.

This matter will now form part

of the inquiry into Damian Green's

conduct, but be aware of the kind of

hurdles you would have to get past

to fight against them, you would

have to establish beyond doubt the

material was there, that he had

looked at it, that he perhaps had

downloaded it.

Lots of unanswerable

questions then. We will come onto

the politics in a moment, but let's

talk about the Jane Merrick story.

Firstly, lets make this clear, with

Damian, who is it should have been

suspended to that could have been a

proper inquiry, this has formed that

and instead we are pretty much

having trialled by the newspapers.

This is not acceptable. These are

very serious allegations in relation

to other people and it has all been

blurred and conflated and this is a

disgraceful way for us to conduct

our politics and very serious

allegations, and further evidence of

that is that Jane Merrick, who has

been outstandingly brave, the way

she found herself in a position

where something had happened to her

some time ago, and where did she go

in order to make a complaint? As we

now no, she went to Harriet Harman,

and then to me, and we both

absolutely promised to keep her

identity confidential and we stuck

to that, and then I contacted Number

Ten, and as a result of that Jane

contacted Number Ten. And I know the

Courage...

This is why he has

resigned?

Yes. And to be clear about

this, we cannot have today this

going on any longer. People must

have, today, a system where they

don't have to go to the press in

order to make their complaint or

have to find some MP's telephone

number they know who would take

things seriously. This is all about

protecting other men and, notably,

women, and there is nothing the

moment... I think our Prime Minister

must lead on this, and she must give

an assurance that, you know, people

must be able now to make their

complaints, so that we stop the sort

of behaviour that Jane and others

have had to endure for years.

OK,

now, to be absolutely clear to

everyone I should see some Michael

Fallon denies a lot of...

He doesn't

deny what he did to Jane.

Trial by

newspaper is also a very interesting

phrase because you are quoted on the

front page of the Sunday Telegraph

talking about the Whips' Office. "It

Is difficult to know that for didn't

know much of the detail of these

various allegations, and they

probably know more. I was astonished

that Gavin Williamson was appointed

as Defence Secretary." They used to

keep what we called the Black book,

now the black spreadsheet, facts on

MPs to basically use as blackmail...

That is not true. At the very top of

the Whips' Office, as far as I know

because I have never been a whip,

and this is in both parties, there

will be stuff that is known about

people, you might have a drink, so

somebody might actually assault

weapon, and the have that

information for a pastoral role when

people go to make complaints, and

this is the problem the Whips'

Office has. Their primary role is to

make sure Government or opposition

business goes through, but of course

they have these are the roles which

are incredibly important, the

welfare of members of Parliament, of

our staff, and at the same time,

though, they are trying to get

Government business through, so it

is a contradiction and that has to

stop, at the senior level of the

Whips' Office, undoubtedly, they

have known all manner of

allegations, and again I think the

time has now come when we have to

draw a halt to this. All the stuff

that they know must be given to the

Prime Minister and her aides, one in

particular who are completely trust,

and we must do things properly, and

not do this behind the scenes, in

some instances covering up which is

totally unacceptable, but also when

there are allegations, they go to

the police or some other body

immediately, so we don't have

people's reputation is being trashed

in the newspapers.

OK, and to be

absolutely clear, before I come onto

the BORIS BECKER:, tomorrow morning

the Prime Minister sits down with

all of this in front of her.

What should she do? -- before I come

onto Kate, tomorrow morning.

Well,

Esther will not know much of this

because she has just come on, but

she needs to go to the Chief Whip

and so on and say, criminal

investigations must go straight to

the police, other matters must go

into a new thing she needs to create

immediately some people like Jane

don't have to go around in the way I

described, and this must also happen

in Kate's party because it is just

as big a problem...

In the Labour

Party there have been allegations of

rape, groping, really gross

misconduct while Labour officials

and MPs as well and at least one

person, John Mann...

Yes, I think we

can all agree this is crossing

party, no credit any political party

can take out of this, but John Mann,

who has done a lot of work on this

in the Sunday People today, he has

come up with a number of steps we

need to take, and I think it is

important talking about what is

happening now that we need to

seriously look at what we can do. It

is interesting, Anna, because one

thing he is very clear on is the

whips, and detox specifically about

Labour whips and the Labour

readership not to hate reports of

abuse and harassment -- is speaks

specifically about. Parliament is a

huge working institution that has

not been brought up to modern times.

And we are all supposed to employ

our own staff but most people did

not get elected to Parliament to

have personnel, and saw all that

needs to be looked at but the one

thing I would say, I think it is

really important that anyone accused

of anything is given a second back

and open way of responding,

otherwise I think there will be a

lot of things that happen... People

see things for grievances and all

sorts of reasons and we need

absolute transparency.

Absolutely,

Sam, and I suggested we would come

onto the hard politics that flows

from all of this. What sort of depth

of trouble is the Government in now,

do you think?

I think it is

significant.

You have to remember we were already

dealing with the most fragile

Government of my lifetime, one that

does not have a majority in the

Commons, the Prime Minister lost

quite a lot of authority by calling

the election that backfired and it

has the most difficult task of any

Government of the last 40 years in

terms of Brexit, which they have to

do while having no money. That is

the backdrop. At the heart of what

we are seeing at the moment, you

have a really worrying situation

from the Government point of view.

This Government is essentially run

by two people, so Jeremy Heywood,

the Cabinet Secretary, and Damian

Green. Damian Green is under

investigation for allegations he

denies.

Is being investigated...

By

Sir Jeromy, the ten days ago

revealed he had been ill quite

recently with cancer, so you have a

situation where the top of the

Government feels very fragile. If it

is, what we see at the moment, it

leads to Damian Green's departure,

it would be a massive further blow,

and there are MPs, ministers and

Cabinet ministers incredibly worried

about whether or not this Government

can continue to hang on, not that

they have any idea what to do in its

place.

But I think it is a bigger

thing.

Bigger than that?

It is how

we conduct politics and I think most

people watching politics at home on

this programme, in the real world,

they will see damn all of you.

I

need to move onto one big political

story. Brexit carries on through all

of this, and there are two stories,

Kate, about Brexit, one in the

Sunday Express, an interesting new

proposal for Frank Field?

Frank feels as many of us do, this

whole EU Withdrawal Bill, which has

400 amendments, 69 pages. It's all

meant to be done in the next number

of months. But, of course, what he

is saying is we could do it

differently. We could have a very

simple four-clause bill which puts

the date of leaving which then

brings all of the law automatically

into our law and then we can move on

to actually look at what we want to

keep and what we don't.

From your

side of the argument, there are

people who think Parliament will

betray the vote?

Yes, I think what

he says here, he put it very

strongly, too many he doesn't name

people, MPs were wolves in sheep's

clothing. They're pretending they

wish to engage crop instructively

with the Government to improve the

bill but too many of this group have

really the aim of wrecking the bill.

I'm aphrase that is the feeling out

there in the country. This is

getting delayed so much, there are

so many people who are actually

almost working against the interests

of getting a good deal. He's, his

clause will be one of the first

ones. I'm sure Anna will be opposing

it. It will be one. First coming

up.

Anna's sitting there...

Look, we

need to put all this law into the

substantive British law. You have a

former Attorney General, Dominic

Grieve, hardly known as some pink

Tory. I'm a lawyer, Nicky Morgan's a

lawyer, this is a nothing wrong with

that, we are protecting our

constitution and we want a good

deal.

We've finally run Ute of time.

We could sit here engaging in

converse all morning. But much else

to talk about.

Now, as we've been hearing,

allegations of sexual harassment

and, even, rape, are issues for

the Labour Party and Jeremy Corbyn

as much as for the Government.

I'm joined by Dawn Butler,

Labour's Shadow Secretary

for Women & Equalities.

Do you accept the Labour Party faces

just as serious allegations and

problems as the Conservative do?

It

is an issue which needs to be

tackled seriously. We need to

address it in Parliament. But also,

everywhere else. It is not just

unique to Westminster. We have to

address it. The Labour Party has to

take it seriously. I think the

Labour Party has proved to be taking

it seriously.

Well, that's the

question really for the Labour Party

Kelvin Hopkins was the subject of

very serious allegations by a young

Labour Party worker. Can I ask you

first of all, at what point the

leadership new about these

allegations? I don't want to discuss

individual cases because I think

that's inappropriate, especially if

there's an investigation taking

place. As with anything, if I can

talk generally, if somebody's being

promoted into the Shadow Cabinet,

say, it is in order for the whip to

say whether there's an outstanding

issue against somebody or an issue

that's been resolved. If there was

an issue and it's been resolved,

that's the the end of the matter. If

it is an issue which is ongoing,

that's something very different. It

is important... That the processes

are right. They are clear, it is

important they are France parent and

it is important if -- transparent.

It is important someone's issues is

staken seriously and they are

treated sensitively throughout the

process.

This is only words unless

action is taking. Your then chief

win said she horrified. She said it

is not too late to change this

appointment but the appointment was

maintained. That has caused a lot of

hurt and upset to ordinary Labour

Party members.

Andrew, I don't know

what Rosie Winterton said in that

regard.

She's been public about it.

But understand is when the Chief

Whip was informed of an issue

against a member, it was dealt with

by both sides and they were both

happy with the outcome. If that's

the case, the process is if there is

an issue and that issue's dealt with

and both sides are happy, then

that's the end of the matter.

Do you

know whether or not Jeremy Corbyn

was told?

As I said, I don't want to

talk about individual cases.

Let's

talk a the leader of the Labour

Party. Did he know?

I want to talk

about the process. If the leader of

the Labour Party was told there was

an issue against a member and that

issue has now been rest afflict to

the agreement of both sides, then

it's not something... What we don't

have in Parliament, if you were to

say to, Andrew, one second. If you

said to me there is an issue of

sanctions, that's different. If

someone's been given a verbal

abolishment and there's a sanction

to say you cannot be promoted for

six or 12 months, that's a different

issue. Which haven't got that in

pavement. Maybe at the meeting

tomorrow with the Prime Minister we

can talk about sanctions. If there

is a case against an MP, where they

are suspended or there's an

investigation, that needs to be due

process. It needs to be transparent

and clear.

We want that but in the

end, this is the same old business.

It was swept under the carpet at the

time. You said the woman concerned

was perfectly happy in. In which

case why has she been all over the

media talking about this experience.

She was deeply upset and inningered

about this.

The Labour Party kept it

private. That's not what I said. I

said if the cheap whip says to the

leader of the Labour Party there was

an issue and that case was resolved

and both sides were happy, I said

its reasonable for the leader to do

what the leader wants to do. If it

is an outstanding case and both

sides are not happy, that's

different. I want to make sure.

She

isn't happy. That's the problem? .

Maybe somebody was misinformed. I

want to say we have to get the

processes right, cricket and France

parent. That's why there is an

investigation. We need to, rather

than try and guess what's been said,

we need to have the investigation.

At the end of the investigation you

can call me back on the show and I

can Fawke factually about what's

happened or not happened.

The woman

concerned said exactly what she says

happened all over the media for days

and days now. We know what the Chief

Whip said. She said that publicly

for days and days. You can't say

this is something we'll have to

investigate in due course?

It has to

be. If the Chief Whip has been told

something and now something

different, that has to be

investigated, exactly what was said

at what time.

Let's turn to another

issue.

Because of the information,

that's why Kelvin's now been

suspended. It is important to talk

about policy and process rather than

get into individual cases.

Like

Kelvin. Let me ask you about Bex

Bailey. You be on behalf of the

Labour Party apollingologyise to her

for what happened?

Absolutely. Bex

Bailey has gone through a traumatic

experience. What has happened to her

and the fact she felt she was unable

to get anyone to listen to her...

At

the time she was told not to pursue

this by the Labour Party.

So, this

is why, Andrew, there needs to be a

thorough investigation and that is

why Jeremy Corbyn has called for a

very renowned, established QC to

investigate this matter urgently and

have a response urgently. I'm really

sorry what happened to Bex. She has

been extraordinarily brave. With you

need a process where you don't have

to be brave to come forward, for

justice to be done. You we should

have a policy in place where women

don't have to be brave. It just has

to be dealt with.

Dawn, butler,

thank you for talking to us.

Coming up later this morning.

On the Sunday Politics,

Sarah Smith will be talking

to Shadow Defence Secretary

Nia Griffith

and the former MP George

Galloway, among others.

That's the Sunday

Politics at 11 o'clock.

Sir Billy Connolly,

who was knighted this week

by the Duke of Cambridge,

once said, very wisely,

that there was no such

thing as bad weather,

only inappropriate clothing.

That is, I suspect,

our text for the day.

Over to Matt Taylor

in the weather studio.

Over to Matt Taylor

in the weather studio.

I couldn't agree more. Today,

clothing-wise. Warm jackets for all

weather. We've the sunshine across

many parts of the country so far

this morning. Maybe a waterproof

warm jacket for some too. These are

big shower clouds on the horizon in

Rochdale. There are some fairly

heavy showers through parts of the

Midland, south-west, in Northern

Ireland and the north of Scot

ranked. They were wintry over higher

ground. Showers becoming fewer in

number for many during the

afternoon. One or two down the east

coast. Chilly in breeze but fine,

sunny weather to enjoy. Clear skies

tonight for any fireworks displays

taking place. Most will avoid

showers. A frost will quickly form.

Temperatures dropping well below

freezing away from the towns and

centres. An early grown for

commuters toppled. Could be the need

for the ice scraper out. Dry and

sunny for most. Sunshine lasting

longer through the Midland and

eastern parts. Quickly clouding over

Scotland and Northern Ireland. Odd

splash of rain elsewhere also

spreading into western parts of the

England and Wales. By Tuesday, it is

the waterproofs which will be

required as rain spreads from west

to east. Back to youment Appropriate

clothing all round.

In 1917, the British Foreign

Secretary Arthur Balfour

wrote a letter announcing

his conversion to the idea

that the Jewish people should

have a national home in Israel.

This Balfour Declaration is regarded

as one of the founding documents

of the State of Israel,

and to celebrate its centenary,

Israel's Prime Minister,

Benjamin Netanyahu

has come to London, where he's

been in talks with Theresa May.

To some, he is the arch defender

of the Jewish people.

To others, he is a bellicose

hardliner dedicated to expanding the

very settlements seen by Palestinian

Arabs as the obstacle to peace.

He joins me now.

Welcome Prime Minister,

The good

part was shorter than the bad part.

Let me turn to the bad part. The

second bit of the Balfour

declaration. Nothing shall be done

which prejudices the civil and

religious rights of existing

non-Jewist people in Palestine. Has

that been held to by your

Government?

They talk about the

civil and religious rights. Israel's

Arabs citizens are the only Arabs in

the middle east who enjoy genuine

civic and religious right. Religious

free Dom is protected in Israel as

nowhere else tragically in the

middle east. Civil rights, Supreme

Court judge, Arab ministers,

including in my Government who are

Arabs, dues and members of the

Parliament who are Arabs and so on.

I would like to see more involvement

from the Arabs in civil life.

In

Israel and occupied territories,

there are pretty gross human rights

breaches. Whether it is a child

impressed on by military court or

shot unjustifiably or a house

demolished because lack of a permit,

few Palestinians have escaped

serious rights abuses during the

50-year occupation. Again, Amnesty

International say much the same.

Israeli forces unlawfully killed

Palestine people, including children

and detained thousands of

Palestinians who opposed Israel's

continuing military occupation

holding hundreds in administrative

detention, torture and other ill

treatment of detainees remained

rife. That is not in the spirit of

the Balfour declaration.

I does by

the the arguments about torture and

the statement here. No democracy has

been threatened like Israel with

enemies that seek our destruction

and fired thousands of missiles on

us. Just imagine thousands and

thousands of missiles on London. You

don't have to imagine it. You've had

it. Look at what was done in

retribution. We haven't done that.

We act in moral ways. Our army.

There's no more more alarmy in the

world that's maligned. The battle of

Israel, the battle I'm involved

with, is to dispel thee lice. I have

no compunction in doing so. Israel

stands out as a beacon of democracy

and self-restraint in a sea of

troubles in the wanton, violent

attacks which are meant to destroy

us. That should serve as an ample to

others around us. There are others

in the region who do not do this.

If

there is one thing that upsets

supporters of the Israel, including

many Jewish leaders in country, is

the push of settlements. Your own

defence minister said the rate of

sitlements from areas ask faster

than at any time since 2009. This is

the one thing that makes supporters

of Israel Des pair, including in

this Government?

I think the

settlements are an issue. They are

not the

settlements are an issue. They are

not the issue. . The issue is the

100-year-old persistent refusal of

the Palestinian leadership to

recognise the state and Jewish

boundary. I do take issue with one

other thing since I am here. I think

the idea that dues cannot live in

Judea is crazy.

At the moment, this

is Palestinian territory. You are

putting...

It is disputed territory.

The UN says it is a flag rant breach

of the law.

People I think the facts

are different. I think the central

fact is this. Settlements is a side

issue. Because...

Not to the

Palestinians, it's not.

I think it

is too. When we removed all the

settlements from Gazza and did what

they say, go back to the 67 lines,

take away the settlements, Gazza

didn't become peaceful. They

launched thousands of rockets from

Gazza we vacated from Israel. Not

against Tel Aviv, jeer us 'em. Every

part of Israel. I asked them why

they are doing this rhetorically. Is

it to liberate the West Bank. They

said, that too, no, we want to

liberate Palestine. Tel Aviv.

You're

in a war with ham mass. They've done

a deal with Fatah. Do you

distinguish between Fatah and Hamas

in this regard?

Yes, I do. Hamas

takes it's goal of destroying Israel

and translates it into act of

terror. That is the not case with

the Palestinian Authority. One would

hope that Hamas would move to that

position and not have the

Palestinian Authority move to Hamas.

I would say this, unity for peace is

good. Unity for the destruction of

Israel is bad. And that's what we're

looking at.

What is also clear is that your

policy for Gaza is not working, the

policy of having a kind of cordon

around Gaza, King of blockade, that

has actually increased the power of

Hamas in Gaza, and is raising calls

about the human rights situation

inside Gaza. This policy is simply

not working.

Hamas is 30,000 armed

thugs, where they periodically

execute people in -- Palestinians

and Gazans. An AK-47 bullet back of

the neck for anyone who tried to

relieve the people of Gaza from

this. This is what I have done.

You

have shot a lot of people there as

well.

I have opened up the border

crossings, to enable 1000 trucks a

day of goods, food, medicine,

anything you want, unlimited

supplies coming into Gaza, as long

as they are not weapons. And in fact

it is Israel right now, if I had to

say it is one country, Israel, more

than any other actually taking care

of the population of Gaza, because

we have no quarrel with the

population. We do have a quarrel

with those who have hijacked them

and use the territory of Gaza to

launch a war against Israel. One day

I hope we will be rid of Hamas and

they will disarm, and then we can

have a glorious future.

Let's look

at the Palestinian state very

vividly, you have said actually,

what we can't have is an armed

hostile anti-keeper-mac state

sitting on our border for ever --

and the Israeli state sitting on our

border forever. You used the term,

Palestinian entity. Are you

suggesting what Palestinians might

get is, as it were, the status of a

kind of self-governing territory

inside a greater Israel.

I think

they should have all the powers to

govern themselves and none of the

powers to threaten us, which means

it has to be...

Following -- falling

short of fools take, in other words.

The Middle East is full of stories

of collapsing states and so on, so

that means if we withdraw our armed

security control from an area, what

happened invariably is militant

Islam comes in, whether Daesh, Isis,

Hamas, backed by Iran, and either

one is horrible, not only for us but

also for the Palestinians or the

Lebanese. You just heard the Prime

Minister of Lebanon on resigning and

he said basically, Hezbollah took

over, which means a run took over,

and I think this is a wake-up call

for everyone. It says what the

Middle East is really experiencing

-- which means Iran to cover. I

think when Israelis and Arabs, and

it is all the Arabs and the

Israelis, agree on one thing, people

should pay attention. We should stop

this Iranian takeover, for your

interest as well.

I want to come to

run directly in a moment, but if you

talk to almost any British MP, they

say two state solution, two state

solution, but the way you are

talking it sounds as if I2-mac state

solution is more or less over and we

are moving to a different one, one

state solution. -- it sounds as if a

two state solution is more or less

over.

I am unabashed about saying

that I do not want this two state

solution to be over but we don't

want something to threaten our

lives. What is the other state,

Costa Rica or North Korea? Another

many Iran, Luxembourg? Nobody asks

that. When you say two states, if it

is not demilitarised and doesn't

recognise the state of Israel which

the Palestinians still refuse to do,

it merely becomes a platform for

continuing the war against the one

Jewish state, so I think you have to

be more specific and say, no, what

we want is the recognition, finally,

100 years after the Balfour

Declaration, finally recognise the

Jewish state, expletive deleted, but

recognise it, and make sure that

Palestinians do not have the weapons

to destroy it.

You have been talking

about all of this with Donald Trump,

a man with a slightly dodgy

reputation in this country, but you

have just seen him up close and

personal. What do you make of him?

Firstly I think he has leadership

qualities, and I think he sees in

the Middle East something different.

There are some people who saw Iran

as the solution for the problems in

the Middle East.

Lake Barack Obama,

you mean?

By the way I had a very

good relationship with Barack Obama,

and we did agree on things, and we

signed our memorandum of

understanding, 10-year security

package, and I welcome and respect

that, but I disagreed with him on

Iran because, yes, I think he saw

Iran as a solution in many ways, and

Donald Trump sees Iran is the

problem, but it is not Donald Trump

this is Iran is the problem. We do

and the Arab states do. And Hariri

who just resigned does as well, and

he's right.

And between Israel and

many of the Sunni states, against

Iran. It is almost the way you speak

about them as if you see them as one

of those great empires, moving from

Asia right away to the

Mediterranean, and you have said

very clearly, putting aside the

nuclear issue, we must them doing

that. We will not let them get to

the Mediterranean, we will not let

them an American Shi'ite empire

spreading right the way to the

shores of the Mediterranean. How

will you do that?

Iran will Putin

calls for destruction, and something

even in your experience, -- will put

in calls. Iran openly says, we are

out to destroy what they call us,

the small states come on the way to

the big states, the United States...

You are a middle state.

No offence

taken.

This is what Iran wants to

do. It is seeking to colonise Syria

for that purpose, and that is to

Lebanon-ise Syria and that is what

in Lebanon on President Hariri

basically resigned over, probably

killed his father, and could have

killed him...

And for so-called Isis

and the Islamic State...

As they

move out, Iran moves in, but they

want to bring in their air force,

they want to bring in Shi'ite and

divisions, submarines and military

vessels, right into the

Mediterranean right next to Israel,

so we will not let that happen and

we will resist.

You would go to war

to stop that happening?

The more we are prepared to stop it

the less likely it is we will have

to resort to much greater things.

There is a principle I very much at

YouTube, nip bad things at the bud

-- I very much it adhere to.

But we

have it rocket attacks, Lebanon,

things moving in the Horn of Africa,

and you can see it as a big

situation. At this stage are we

drifting or moving towards a major

war in the region between Iran and

her allies and proxies on the one

side, and Israel and the Sunni

states on the other?

There is

definitely a conflict, and you're

right, and alignment in the region,

but I think it is the battle between

medievalism and modernity. Israel

stands for modernity, and these

forces have to resist the onslaught

of this militant Islamism. Which

uses rockets, terrorism, suicide

bombers and so on, and the sparks of

that firmament you see on the

streets of London. It medievalism

wins they are, you lose here, so we

are really on the front line of this

great battle for the future of the

world, not really the future of the

Middle East, but the world.

And you

think Donald Trump gets it and is at

your back?

I think he definitely

understands that Iran is the primary

problem. It probably accounts for

95% of the problems we experienced

now in the Middle East, and it is a

good thing that he gets it.

Can I

ask you about the condition of Jews

in this country, because there are a

lot of Jewish friends and community

reader mights very worried about

your Government and they see

particularly the settlement issue

has made it much harder to defend

Israel in this country. We have

always had anti-Semitism in Britain

but it has been quiet for a long

time, and it is back on the rise.

I

wouldn't blame Jews for

anti-Semitism any more than I would

blame blacks for racial hatred

towards them or about anti-gay

hatred, because of what they are...

But distinction between Jews and

policies.

You know what happened,

Theresa May gave an extraordinary

speech. On the Balfour Centennial,

and she said," you cannot go and

attack and say that Britain has no

right to exist because you impose

some of the British Government

policies. Britain has a right to

exist, Israel has a right to exist.

You may disagree with this or that

policy but you would never question

any other country's right to exist

based on this or that disagreement

with the policy. " But this is

levelled against Israel and Konta

Michael Vorm.

One of the big

supporters of Palestinian rights in

this country is the Labour Party

leader Jeremy Corbyn who has said

previously we shouldn't allow free

access for what he calls Israel's

terminal politicians to come into

this country. He might very well be

Britain's Prime Minister before

long. What would that the

relationships? Should you not pick

up the telephone and taught him?

First of all the British people

decide who they want to come and be

Prime Minister, but I hope there

will be a continuity of British

policy with Israel because there is

something people don't know. That

cooperation has saved many lives,

many Israeli lives, many many

British lives, because we have an

intense cooperation between our

security and intelligence agencies,

and it is protecting Britain and

protecting Israel, and it is

something I hope will continue in

the future.

Mr Netanyahu, thanks

very much indeed for talking to us.

Now, then...

Murder on the Orient Express is one

of Agatha Christie's finest stories,

immortalised on screen

more than once.

A new film version,

directed by Kenneth Branagh,

who also takes the part

of Poirot, has a classy cast.

I caught up with two of its stars,

Michelle Pfeiffer and Olivia Colman,

who gave me a few clues

as to why this mystery train

has timeless appeal.

My name is Hercule Poirot,

and I am probably the greatest

detective in the world.

I must recommend you remain

in your compartments

with the doors locked.

I feel like a prisoner here.

It is for your own safety.

This is a hugely enjoyable film.

You have the great reveal,

which is that thing on

Kenneth Branagh's face!

What did you think

when you first saw it?

I thought, what is that

thing on Kenneth...

No, I thought, this

is extraordinary.

And I thought, I don't know how I'm

going to act with this moustache!

He also never looked more handsome.

It suits him, doesn't it?

I think he's quite hot

with the big tash.

It is like this vast grey marmoset

sitting on his face.

I can't remember

the exact words now,

but Agatha Christie

says it's meant to be...

The most magnificent

moustache in England.

That's it.

And it certainly is.

It has to be big.

Can I then ask you both about your

characters, about Mrs Hubbard?

She's a socialitE, she's brittle,

she's on the hunt for husbands.

Is she the person, do you think,

Agatha Christie might have wanted

to be herself?

Oh.

Well, some have said

that she exemplifies maybe the inner

loneliness of Agatha Christie.

Travelling alone was very dangerous

and in some ways scandalous

for a woman, travelling alone.

Well, hello.

Eyes linger any longer,

I'll have to charge you rent.

I'll pay.

And Mrs Schmidt sitting

there observing silently

the whole way through.

You are Judi Dench's handmaiden

which is quite a role to take on.

Yes.

Tell us a little bit about that.

I think Kenneth Branagh said he cast

you because he wanted somebody who

could be silent, and

yet you couldn't help

observing all the time.

He cast me because he wanted

someone to be silent?

Yes!

It's like he never met me at all.

Apart from bits where

you speak very good German.

Oh, thanks very much!

Took an awfully long

time to learn that.

Not sure a German would say such

nice things, but thank you.

It was, well, heaven.

I sat next to Judi Dench

all day holding a dog.

It was heaven.

This is all about master-servant

or mistress-servant relationships,

which Agatha Christie

was fascinated by.

Who's really in control?

Is it the servant all along who is

somehow controlling her countess?

I'd like to say, yes,

but I don't think so.

I think it is very much

the Countess in this occasion.

Michelle, for quite a long time -

it's often been said Hollywood

hasn't been very good at roles

for women over 40.

And I know Meryl Streep and Jane

Fonda have campaigned on this.

I wonder if it's now

beginning to change?

You know, in films, I'm not so sure.

I feel more in television

there are more and more interesting

parts for women of all ages.

And, in film, I'm actually

not convinced so much.

I think Meryl does all the really

great parts for women over 40.

That's a kind of rule, isn't it?

It is a very male-dominated

kind of industry

going through a terrible crisis,

the Harvey Weinstein business.

Were you yourself, you've

been a big, big actress

there for 20 years or so,

did you know about this stuff?

Did you have any

experiences yourself?

I never worked with Harvey.

I've had some experiences.

I have to say, since this has all

come out, there really hasn't been

one woman I've talked to

who hasn't had an experience.

It just goes to show you

how systemic the problem is.

I'm having conversations with women

I've known my whole life

and we've never discussed this and

it's coming out.

You think this is going to change

the atmosphere for younger women

coming into the industry

that men are going to

think three or four times?

I think all the men

are thinking, yeah.

I think...

...Should bloody well hope so.

There's a lot of reflection

going on with men and women.

I was thinking myself,

thinking back, thinking, well,

you know, where is that line

between, oh, I got hit on and I was

in appropriately, you know...

Is it about power?

Basically?

Well, I think when you're

in a position of power and

you're in a position to intimidate

someone, then it becomes...

There are cases where there

are young women in their 20s...

It seems to be women in like,

it's women in their young 20s.

Who are younger.

They are purposefully targeted.

We've been talking about the queen

of crime Agatha Christie.

Let's turn to the Queen of England.

You've been announced

as the new Queen in The Crown.

What happened when you heard

about the The Crown?

You presumably got a phone call

saying you got the gig.

I was on speaker phone

in the car with my husband.

We'd recently finished

watching The Crown.

My agent said, "Would

you go and meet -

It's a secret," and

she was trying to be subtle.

"...About a tiara,"

and I said, "The Crown,

The Crown, oh, my God, yeah!"

My husband was silently

clapping in the background.

So we were quite excited.

I was very excited.

I'm excited.

Thanks.

Thank you both very much.

Thank you.

Thank you.

It's been a rotten week

for the Government.

And, generally, what happens

at the end of a rotten week

for the government is that

Sir Michael Fallon appears

on programmes like this to tell us

how well Theresa May is doing.

Now, this weekend, for reasons

that I hope are obvious,

he is unavailable.

But I am joined by the Home

Secretary Amber Rudd -

which shows perhaps how important

she has become to the Prime Minister

and why she is being tipped

for even higher things.

Can I make a parallel. I've been

around for a long time. This feels a

little bit like John Major's

Government after the back to basics

speech when Kay after day after day

there was yet another story and

another and another. It was drip,

drip, drip. It she hadded and

exhausted that Government. The same

thing's happening to you. Can I put

it to you this is not tittle tattle,

it is politically serious? ?

Test

serious. This is about cross-party

change. It is the Labour Party, the

whole of Westminster. What we're see

something a wholesale change taking

place. We've seen the abuse of power

in particular. And the widespread

cultural change that needs to take

place as Wes recognise that. We will

be recognising that. We are going to

be making changes. It has to stop.

There's been a really big focus this

morning in particular on the role of

the whip's office. You heard Anna

Soubry saying they must have known

much more. They mousse come to the

Prime Minister and tell them

everything they know and she must

demand that and you as Home

Secretary. Is that happening? Will

it happen?

The Prime Minister

tomorrow will work across party with

the party lead tors make sure a

system's put in place.

I'm focusing

on your party and the role of

Conservative whips in all of this.

I'm just as concerned as Home

Secretary for all women in

Parliament. I'm happy to answer your

question on the Conservative Party

as well. I was a whip myself. I

don't recognise some of those more

lurid stories told about the sort of

things whips new and did.

The black

book?

I just don't recognise it. I

tell it as it is. Our aim was to

make sure we got Government business

through as whip. We try to

accommodate people's lives so they

were there to vote. That sort of

thing. I don't recognise the other

stuff.

I understand it is a black

and white picture and more extreme

than in reality. However, there was

a black book or spreadsheet of miss

demean ours.

So you say. I spent a

year in there and there wasn't one.

I think Parliament has changed a

lot. No longer have midnight

sittings. Has become more

family-friendly. But it has to do

more.

Tim Fortescue said, who was a

Tory whip, it was a TV programme

looking at the whip's office. Anyone

in trouble would come to the whips.

They'd say, I was in a jam. It might

be debt. A scandal involving small

boys. We'd do everything we can to

help we'd score browny points. If he

can get a chap out of trouble, he'll

do what we ask for ever more. That

is precisely the problem.

That is

disgraceful, shocking. When was

that?

That was in the 170s.

That

isn't the Parliament I know. The

whip's office where I work. That was

in the past. I'm not saying there

isn't a lot of change to take place,

there is. I want to work in a place

where there is respect.

You say it

is in the past. Let me read you what

Katie Perrier said. Recently part of

the Government and worked in Downing

Street a few months ago. She says

this information is held by the

whips. They use to to make sure MPs

within the party know exactly what

they've been up to and that brave

your is not acceptable or used

against him. You vote a certain way

or we'll tell your wife what you've

been up to. Information's being held

for partisan reasons to get

legislation through rather than

being passed to the proper

authorities, including the police.

I

just don't agree with you. I spent a

year in the whips office under

George Young. There was no black

book or that influence going on. It

was much more about getting

Government business through. That's

the whip's office. I recognise there

is a really important change that

needs to take place in Westminster.

It is not just Westminster. It is

other workplaces as well. We heard

mish eel fiver saying what was going

on in that industry. This is an

international, cross-business change

that needs to take place to support

particularly young women in work.

To

be absolutely clear, are you saying

the whips didn't know anything at

all about Sir Michael Fallon in the

past? There are suggestions they

did?

There is a lot of suggestion in

the papers. I can't guess about what

might have known what rumour or

truth. I am saying how I operated as

a whip in the whip's office when I

was there.

Can you at least say

whatever they do know they must take

to the Prime Minister. It must be on

the table between you, the Prime

Minister and the whips so the

information's out there before it

turns up in the newspaper?

Absolutely. There should be total

candour. If they are rumours,

allegations, we need to find out

what's going on and deal with them

in a transparent way so they don't

happen again.

This has been driven

all the way through by newspaper

story, splash after splash after

dirty splash. Are there more

splashes to come?

I don't know. Some

of these have surprised me. We

should make the distinction between

some very serious allegations and

some which is tittle tattle. We have

to be careful about the distinctions

here.

Let's look at the Damian Green

tittle tattle this morning in the

papers today. We have a former, very

senior policeman alleging something

about the efwektively Deputy Prime

Minister. Is this the proper way for

the police to behave?

That is a

reasonable question. The Cabinet

Office will look at this tomorrow

along with the wider inquiry about

Damian. We shouldn't rush to allege

anything until that inquiry's has

taken place.

What about the way he's

treated the woman who madal gazes

against him. The lawyers have been

called in. It seems a very heavy and

scary response. If you are another

young whom who feels they've been

mistreated that kind of thing will

put you off telling anybody.

I think

men and women who have been subject

to any sort of abuse of power should

have the confidence to come forward.

I also think people who are, This is

they've been wrongly accused should

absolutely be able to come out and

say, this is not true. Damian's made

some very strong statements on that

side.

He certainly has. Let's talk

about the politics of all of this.

Is a crucial anything in Theresa

May's Cabinet. Are you close now to

a complete collapse. If he goes, it

seems as if the whole centre of

Government's imploded.

Abs will

thely not. It is something that will

take place in terms of clearing out

Westminster of that sort of behave

your. Westminster, afterwards,

including the Government, will be

better for it. When we are confident

that men and women can work in a

respectful environment and people

who have been on the receiving end

of abuse of power can come forward,

that will be a positive thing. I

would like to sea, the Government's

committed to delivering on its

agenda. I know there is a lot of

interest in this. It is right there

is and we change it. We are doing

other things do.

He Rennes other

things and an agenda. You've an

announcement today about child

pornography, about the treatment of

much younger women than the ones we

are talking about?

I'm going to

Washington this week to make sure we

step up our fight against child

sexual exploitation. We've seen the

real growth of child sexual

exploitation internationally. We

need to work with the Americans to

take action against it. There's much

more that the internet companies can

do. They do quite a lot already. But

the growth has been exponential. We

need to make sure they put their

technological know how into

addressing it. Particularly working

with smaller platforms where

children go to game online, to meet

each other. There are peed times

working there. We need to make sure

the internet companies work with us

in partnership to change this.

Let

me return, if you don't mind, to

Westminster politics. Can you

understand why there is so much

anger directed against Mr Williamson

who's taken over as Defence

Secretary?

He's the Prime Minister's

choice. I'm sure he'll do a very

good job.

Gavin Williamson is a real

slime ball with his own leadership

team in place. Theresa May has gone

mad. It's a real end of days stuff

says the huffing tonne post quoting

somebody else. Someone else she's so

weak she's let Williamson appoint

himself. Somebody else, straight

from the school of party

managementment. It is like House Of

Cards the original version. I'm sure

he'll go forward and be a great

Defence Secretary. The idea of the

Chief Whip appearing in a key

position in the Cabinet is straight

out of House Of Cards?

The Prime

Minister can appoint her own

Cabinet.

You can say Andrew, I

couldn't possibly comment.

I didn't

fall into that one particularly.

Gavin will be a great Defence

Secretary, part of the team.

He's

the centre of the story. Can I ask

you about Mr Garnier, who has been

investigated under the Ministerial

Code of Conduct. But the allegations

against him go seven years before he

was a minister. A lot of people

watching, is the ministerial #k0eed

of conduct endlessly retrospective,

the way Amber Rudd or anyone else

behaved when they were 17. It seems

bonkers?

All of these allegations

will be properly investigated so

there is no place for these

allegations to hide so everybody can

kneel confident when they come

forward, and she should if they have

something to say, it is fairly dealt

with.

Do you think we'll see another

Sunday like this?

I certainly hope

not. I hope we'll see more evidence

of what the Government's doing to

deliver on its agenda. In my case,

making the online world safer. In

Jeremy Hunt's case, making the NHS

better. All the things that matter

to Government, I hope we can see

more of that.

Now a look at what's coming up

straight after this programme:

On Sunday Morning Live,

the sexual harassment scandal.

Is it time to put

the house in order

or is it becoming a witch-hunt?

James Bond star Naomi Harris

tells us about a new scheme

to help the homeless.

And poet Benjamin Zephaniah reveals

why studying tai chi in China

has changed his attitude to life.

Join us at 10.00am.

That's all for this week.

Next week, we have a special

extended Remembrance Sunday

programme.

Among my guests four

really big bosses -

the engineering tycoon

Sir James Dyson,

the Chief of the Defence Staff,

plus the Head of the National Trust

and the Mayor of London.

Until then, goodbye.