Interviews with key newsmakers and cultural figures. Andrew's guests include Benjamin Netanyahu, Amber Rudd MP, Dawn Butler MP, Olivia Colman and Michelle Pfeiffer.
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the 5th of November.
Backbiting, leaking and plot.
If this lot gets clear to November
next year, it's all down to
luck, quite a lot.
Now, both major parties
have been rocked by
allegations of gross
misbehaviour by their MPs.
To talk about that and more
I'm joined by the Home
Secretary Amber Rudd,
and Labour's Women and Equalities
Secretary Dawn Butler.
But for those of you wondering
what else is happening in the world
beyond Westminster, I'm talking
to Israel's Prime Minister, Benjamin
Netanyahu - about the peace process,
Iran, and anti-Semitism in Britain.
And, as it happens, the story
from that new blockbuster Murder
on the Orient Express
opens in Jerusalem.
I've been talking to two
of its stars, Michelle Pfeiffer
and Olivia Colman, who told me her
landing the role of the Queen
in Netflix's The Crown.
Then my agent said,
"Would you go and meet - it's a
secret," and she was
trying to be subtle -
and I went, "The Crown,
Crown, oh, my God, yeah!"
And reviewing the news
this morning, the
former Tory Defence
Minister Anna Soubry, Sam
Coates, the deputy political
editor of the Times,
and the Labour MP Kate Hoey.
But first the news
with Roger Johnson.
Theresa May's most senior minister,
has denied that pornography
was found on a computer
when his Westminster office
was raided by police in 2008.
The claim, made by a former
senior police officer,
is reported in the Sunday Times.
Mr Green, who is First Secretary
of State, said the allegation
was completely untrue, and
came from an untrustworthy source.
More allegations have emerged about
the conduct of MPs this morning,
as our political correspondent
Iain Watson reports.
That allegation in the Sunday
Times that pornography
was found on a computer
in Damian Green's office
dates from 2008.
This was during a controversial
inquiry into Home Office
leaks, which briefly led
to Mr Green's arrest.
As Theresa May's second-in-command,
she wouldn't want to lose him
from her Cabinet, and he's responded
robustly to the allegation.
In a statement, he said,
"This story is completely untrue."
He called it "A disreputable
In turn, he accuses the officer
in charge of the investigation nine
years ago, Bob Quick,
of breaching his duty
to keep the details
of the investigation confidential.
Mr Quick has been
unavailable for comment.
This weekend allegations of improper
behaviour in and around Westminster
have been filling the front pages,
and even when ministers resign
that's rarely the end of the story.
Another allegation has
emerged about Sir Michael
Fallon's past behaviour -
in the Observer newspaper
the journalist Jane Merrick said
she informed Downing Street this
week of an incident in 2003.
And hours later he resigned
as Defence Secretary.
Friends of some Michael Fallon have
denied the allegation,
but it is understood his ministerial
career ended because he couldn't
guarantee they would be no
Iain Watson, BBC News.
President Trump has arrived
in Japan, the first stop on what
will be the longest tour of Asia
by a US President in 25 years.
Mr Trump's trip comes at a time
of heightened tensions
with North Korea over its nuclear
programme and missile tests.
He's already met the Japanese
Prime Minister Shinzo Abe at
a country club for a round of golf.
Social media giants must do more
to stop child sexual exploitation,
the Home Secretary has said,
as new Government figures show
a rise in indecent images
of children being reported
to the police.
Writing in the Sun on Sunday,
Amber Rudd, a guest on this
programme in a moment,
said that companies
have a moral duty to go further
and faster in tackling abuse.
Technology firms insist
they're doing their utmost
to keep their young users safe.
That's all from me.
The next news on BBC One
is at one o'clock.
Back to you, Andrew.
Thank you, Roger.
Now to the papers.
and on and
-- and there is the Jane Merrick
story about that incident some time
ago. And this is on the role of the
whips in all this, have they
released information as quickly as
they should have to the Prime
Minister, or is it indeed all being
driven by press? Top Tory's
bathrobe... That very same story
about the Damian Green in
pornography shock, the story he has
denied. We will start with you.
if you had told me a week ago I
would be reading a statement from
the de facto Deputy Prime Minister
like this I would have laughed it
off, but this is no laughing matter.
Last night Damian Green released
under him and statement denying a
number of allegations appearing in
these newspapers this morning. He
said suggestions there was some kind
of pornography on equipment that was
seized from his office in 2009 is
completely Andre -- untrue. This is
an week he released.
Bob quick is
named on the front page of the
Yes, the former head
of counterterrorism who lost his job
some years ago, and he essentially
blames him for, as it were,
political smear, and denies the
allegation covering the front page
of the Sunday Times.
Sam, going back
to the origins of all this, when the
Tories were in opposition and I
think Damian Green was the
spokesperson on home affairs he got
a series of leaks from the Home
Office which the then Labour
Government sent the Home Office into
enquire about and they were sent
into his office, huge investigation
and he was exonerated and so on, but
this goes back to them because the
man leading the hunt was the same Mr
Quick is on the front page of the
The allegation, which Mr
Green denies, was that on one of the
laptops seized as part of that raid
there was deeply unpleasant, not
illegal, but unpleasant images, the
sort of thing that would perhaps
mean you could no longer continue in
your job if it was a public official
and on their laptop, but
nevertheless so problematic.
trying to be as fair as possible.
This was a laptop in his office.
There was no understanding it was
actually him... If the material was
there it could have been somebody
else, people in and out of the
office and working for them all the
This matter will now form part
of the inquiry into Damian Green's
conduct, but be aware of the kind of
hurdles you would have to get past
to fight against them, you would
have to establish beyond doubt the
material was there, that he had
looked at it, that he perhaps had
Lots of unanswerable
questions then. We will come onto
the politics in a moment, but let's
talk about the Jane Merrick story.
Firstly, lets make this clear, with
Damian, who is it should have been
suspended to that could have been a
proper inquiry, this has formed that
and instead we are pretty much
having trialled by the newspapers.
This is not acceptable. These are
very serious allegations in relation
to other people and it has all been
blurred and conflated and this is a
disgraceful way for us to conduct
our politics and very serious
allegations, and further evidence of
that is that Jane Merrick, who has
been outstandingly brave, the way
she found herself in a position
where something had happened to her
some time ago, and where did she go
in order to make a complaint? As we
now no, she went to Harriet Harman,
and then to me, and we both
absolutely promised to keep her
identity confidential and we stuck
to that, and then I contacted Number
Ten, and as a result of that Jane
contacted Number Ten. And I know the
This is why he has
Yes. And to be clear about
this, we cannot have today this
going on any longer. People must
have, today, a system where they
don't have to go to the press in
order to make their complaint or
have to find some MP's telephone
number they know who would take
things seriously. This is all about
protecting other men and, notably,
women, and there is nothing the
moment... I think our Prime Minister
must lead on this, and she must give
an assurance that, you know, people
must be able now to make their
complaints, so that we stop the sort
of behaviour that Jane and others
have had to endure for years.
now, to be absolutely clear to
everyone I should see some Michael
Fallon denies a lot of...
deny what he did to Jane.
newspaper is also a very interesting
phrase because you are quoted on the
front page of the Sunday Telegraph
talking about the Whips' Office. "It
Is difficult to know that for didn't
know much of the detail of these
various allegations, and they
probably know more. I was astonished
that Gavin Williamson was appointed
as Defence Secretary." They used to
keep what we called the Black book,
now the black spreadsheet, facts on
MPs to basically use as blackmail...
That is not true. At the very top of
the Whips' Office, as far as I know
because I have never been a whip,
and this is in both parties, there
will be stuff that is known about
people, you might have a drink, so
somebody might actually assault
weapon, and the have that
information for a pastoral role when
people go to make complaints, and
this is the problem the Whips'
Office has. Their primary role is to
make sure Government or opposition
business goes through, but of course
they have these are the roles which
are incredibly important, the
welfare of members of Parliament, of
our staff, and at the same time,
though, they are trying to get
Government business through, so it
is a contradiction and that has to
stop, at the senior level of the
Whips' Office, undoubtedly, they
have known all manner of
allegations, and again I think the
time has now come when we have to
draw a halt to this. All the stuff
that they know must be given to the
Prime Minister and her aides, one in
particular who are completely trust,
and we must do things properly, and
not do this behind the scenes, in
some instances covering up which is
totally unacceptable, but also when
there are allegations, they go to
the police or some other body
immediately, so we don't have
people's reputation is being trashed
in the newspapers.
OK, and to be
absolutely clear, before I come onto
the BORIS BECKER:, tomorrow morning
the Prime Minister sits down with
all of this in front of her.
What should she do? -- before I come
onto Kate, tomorrow morning.
Esther will not know much of this
because she has just come on, but
she needs to go to the Chief Whip
and so on and say, criminal
investigations must go straight to
the police, other matters must go
into a new thing she needs to create
immediately some people like Jane
don't have to go around in the way I
described, and this must also happen
in Kate's party because it is just
as big a problem...
In the Labour
Party there have been allegations of
rape, groping, really gross
misconduct while Labour officials
and MPs as well and at least one
person, John Mann...
Yes, I think we
can all agree this is crossing
party, no credit any political party
can take out of this, but John Mann,
who has done a lot of work on this
in the Sunday People today, he has
come up with a number of steps we
need to take, and I think it is
important talking about what is
happening now that we need to
seriously look at what we can do. It
is interesting, Anna, because one
thing he is very clear on is the
whips, and detox specifically about
Labour whips and the Labour
readership not to hate reports of
abuse and harassment -- is speaks
specifically about. Parliament is a
huge working institution that has
not been brought up to modern times.
And we are all supposed to employ
our own staff but most people did
not get elected to Parliament to
have personnel, and saw all that
needs to be looked at but the one
thing I would say, I think it is
really important that anyone accused
of anything is given a second back
and open way of responding,
otherwise I think there will be a
lot of things that happen... People
see things for grievances and all
sorts of reasons and we need
Sam, and I suggested we would come
onto the hard politics that flows
from all of this. What sort of depth
of trouble is the Government in now,
do you think?
I think it is
You have to remember we were already
dealing with the most fragile
Government of my lifetime, one that
does not have a majority in the
Commons, the Prime Minister lost
quite a lot of authority by calling
the election that backfired and it
has the most difficult task of any
Government of the last 40 years in
terms of Brexit, which they have to
do while having no money. That is
the backdrop. At the heart of what
we are seeing at the moment, you
have a really worrying situation
from the Government point of view.
This Government is essentially run
by two people, so Jeremy Heywood,
the Cabinet Secretary, and Damian
Green. Damian Green is under
investigation for allegations he
Is being investigated...
Sir Jeromy, the ten days ago
revealed he had been ill quite
recently with cancer, so you have a
situation where the top of the
Government feels very fragile. If it
is, what we see at the moment, it
leads to Damian Green's departure,
it would be a massive further blow,
and there are MPs, ministers and
Cabinet ministers incredibly worried
about whether or not this Government
can continue to hang on, not that
they have any idea what to do in its
But I think it is a bigger
Bigger than that?
It is how
we conduct politics and I think most
people watching politics at home on
this programme, in the real world,
they will see damn all of you.
need to move onto one big political
story. Brexit carries on through all
of this, and there are two stories,
Kate, about Brexit, one in the
Sunday Express, an interesting new
proposal for Frank Field?
Frank feels as many of us do, this
whole EU Withdrawal Bill, which has
400 amendments, 69 pages. It's all
meant to be done in the next number
of months. But, of course, what he
is saying is we could do it
differently. We could have a very
simple four-clause bill which puts
the date of leaving which then
brings all of the law automatically
into our law and then we can move on
to actually look at what we want to
keep and what we don't.
side of the argument, there are
people who think Parliament will
betray the vote?
Yes, I think what
he says here, he put it very
strongly, too many he doesn't name
people, MPs were wolves in sheep's
clothing. They're pretending they
wish to engage crop instructively
with the Government to improve the
bill but too many of this group have
really the aim of wrecking the bill.
I'm aphrase that is the feeling out
there in the country. This is
getting delayed so much, there are
so many people who are actually
almost working against the interests
of getting a good deal. He's, his
clause will be one of the first
ones. I'm sure Anna will be opposing
it. It will be one. First coming
Anna's sitting there...
need to put all this law into the
substantive British law. You have a
former Attorney General, Dominic
Grieve, hardly known as some pink
Tory. I'm a lawyer, Nicky Morgan's a
lawyer, this is a nothing wrong with
that, we are protecting our
constitution and we want a good
We've finally run Ute of time.
We could sit here engaging in
converse all morning. But much else
to talk about.
Now, as we've been hearing,
allegations of sexual harassment
and, even, rape, are issues for
the Labour Party and Jeremy Corbyn
as much as for the Government.
I'm joined by Dawn Butler,
Labour's Shadow Secretary
for Women & Equalities.
Do you accept the Labour Party faces
just as serious allegations and
problems as the Conservative do?
is an issue which needs to be
tackled seriously. We need to
address it in Parliament. But also,
everywhere else. It is not just
unique to Westminster. We have to
address it. The Labour Party has to
take it seriously. I think the
Labour Party has proved to be taking
Well, that's the
question really for the Labour Party
Kelvin Hopkins was the subject of
very serious allegations by a young
Labour Party worker. Can I ask you
first of all, at what point the
leadership new about these
allegations? I don't want to discuss
individual cases because I think
that's inappropriate, especially if
there's an investigation taking
place. As with anything, if I can
talk generally, if somebody's being
promoted into the Shadow Cabinet,
say, it is in order for the whip to
say whether there's an outstanding
issue against somebody or an issue
that's been resolved. If there was
an issue and it's been resolved,
that's the the end of the matter. If
it is an issue which is ongoing,
that's something very different. It
is important... That the processes
are right. They are clear, it is
important they are France parent and
it is important if -- transparent.
It is important someone's issues is
staken seriously and they are
treated sensitively throughout the
This is only words unless
action is taking. Your then chief
win said she horrified. She said it
is not too late to change this
appointment but the appointment was
maintained. That has caused a lot of
hurt and upset to ordinary Labour
Andrew, I don't know
what Rosie Winterton said in that
She's been public about it.
But understand is when the Chief
Whip was informed of an issue
against a member, it was dealt with
by both sides and they were both
happy with the outcome. If that's
the case, the process is if there is
an issue and that issue's dealt with
and both sides are happy, then
that's the end of the matter.
know whether or not Jeremy Corbyn
As I said, I don't want to
talk about individual cases.
talk a the leader of the Labour
Party. Did he know?
I want to talk
about the process. If the leader of
the Labour Party was told there was
an issue against a member and that
issue has now been rest afflict to
the agreement of both sides, then
it's not something... What we don't
have in Parliament, if you were to
say to, Andrew, one second. If you
said to me there is an issue of
sanctions, that's different. If
someone's been given a verbal
abolishment and there's a sanction
to say you cannot be promoted for
six or 12 months, that's a different
issue. Which haven't got that in
pavement. Maybe at the meeting
tomorrow with the Prime Minister we
can talk about sanctions. If there
is a case against an MP, where they
are suspended or there's an
investigation, that needs to be due
process. It needs to be transparent
We want that but in the
end, this is the same old business.
It was swept under the carpet at the
time. You said the woman concerned
was perfectly happy in. In which
case why has she been all over the
media talking about this experience.
She was deeply upset and inningered
The Labour Party kept it
private. That's not what I said. I
said if the cheap whip says to the
leader of the Labour Party there was
an issue and that case was resolved
and both sides were happy, I said
its reasonable for the leader to do
what the leader wants to do. If it
is an outstanding case and both
sides are not happy, that's
different. I want to make sure.
isn't happy. That's the problem? .
Maybe somebody was misinformed. I
want to say we have to get the
processes right, cricket and France
parent. That's why there is an
investigation. We need to, rather
than try and guess what's been said,
we need to have the investigation.
At the end of the investigation you
can call me back on the show and I
can Fawke factually about what's
happened or not happened.
concerned said exactly what she says
happened all over the media for days
and days now. We know what the Chief
Whip said. She said that publicly
for days and days. You can't say
this is something we'll have to
investigate in due course?
It has to
be. If the Chief Whip has been told
something and now something
different, that has to be
investigated, exactly what was said
at what time.
Let's turn to another
Because of the information,
that's why Kelvin's now been
suspended. It is important to talk
about policy and process rather than
get into individual cases.
Kelvin. Let me ask you about Bex
Bailey. You be on behalf of the
Labour Party apollingologyise to her
for what happened?
Bailey has gone through a traumatic
experience. What has happened to her
and the fact she felt she was unable
to get anyone to listen to her...
the time she was told not to pursue
this by the Labour Party.
is why, Andrew, there needs to be a
thorough investigation and that is
why Jeremy Corbyn has called for a
very renowned, established QC to
investigate this matter urgently and
have a response urgently. I'm really
sorry what happened to Bex. She has
been extraordinarily brave. With you
need a process where you don't have
to be brave to come forward, for
justice to be done. You we should
have a policy in place where women
don't have to be brave. It just has
to be dealt with.
thank you for talking to us.
Coming up later this morning.
On the Sunday Politics,
Sarah Smith will be talking
to Shadow Defence Secretary
and the former MP George
Galloway, among others.
That's the Sunday
Politics at 11 o'clock.
Sir Billy Connolly,
who was knighted this week
by the Duke of Cambridge,
once said, very wisely,
that there was no such
thing as bad weather,
only inappropriate clothing.
That is, I suspect,
our text for the day.
Over to Matt Taylor
in the weather studio.
Over to Matt Taylor
in the weather studio.
I couldn't agree more. Today,
clothing-wise. Warm jackets for all
weather. We've the sunshine across
many parts of the country so far
this morning. Maybe a waterproof
warm jacket for some too. These are
big shower clouds on the horizon in
Rochdale. There are some fairly
heavy showers through parts of the
Midland, south-west, in Northern
Ireland and the north of Scot
ranked. They were wintry over higher
ground. Showers becoming fewer in
number for many during the
afternoon. One or two down the east
coast. Chilly in breeze but fine,
sunny weather to enjoy. Clear skies
tonight for any fireworks displays
taking place. Most will avoid
showers. A frost will quickly form.
Temperatures dropping well below
freezing away from the towns and
centres. An early grown for
commuters toppled. Could be the need
for the ice scraper out. Dry and
sunny for most. Sunshine lasting
longer through the Midland and
eastern parts. Quickly clouding over
Scotland and Northern Ireland. Odd
splash of rain elsewhere also
spreading into western parts of the
England and Wales. By Tuesday, it is
the waterproofs which will be
required as rain spreads from west
to east. Back to youment Appropriate
clothing all round.
In 1917, the British Foreign
Secretary Arthur Balfour
wrote a letter announcing
his conversion to the idea
that the Jewish people should
have a national home in Israel.
This Balfour Declaration is regarded
as one of the founding documents
of the State of Israel,
and to celebrate its centenary,
Israel's Prime Minister,
has come to London, where he's
been in talks with Theresa May.
To some, he is the arch defender
of the Jewish people.
To others, he is a bellicose
hardliner dedicated to expanding the
very settlements seen by Palestinian
Arabs as the obstacle to peace.
He joins me now.
Welcome Prime Minister,
part was shorter than the bad part.
Let me turn to the bad part. The
second bit of the Balfour
declaration. Nothing shall be done
which prejudices the civil and
religious rights of existing
non-Jewist people in Palestine. Has
that been held to by your
They talk about the
civil and religious rights. Israel's
Arabs citizens are the only Arabs in
the middle east who enjoy genuine
civic and religious right. Religious
free Dom is protected in Israel as
nowhere else tragically in the
middle east. Civil rights, Supreme
Court judge, Arab ministers,
including in my Government who are
Arabs, dues and members of the
Parliament who are Arabs and so on.
I would like to see more involvement
from the Arabs in civil life.
Israel and occupied territories,
there are pretty gross human rights
breaches. Whether it is a child
impressed on by military court or
shot unjustifiably or a house
demolished because lack of a permit,
few Palestinians have escaped
serious rights abuses during the
50-year occupation. Again, Amnesty
International say much the same.
Israeli forces unlawfully killed
Palestine people, including children
and detained thousands of
Palestinians who opposed Israel's
continuing military occupation
holding hundreds in administrative
detention, torture and other ill
treatment of detainees remained
rife. That is not in the spirit of
the Balfour declaration.
I does by
the the arguments about torture and
the statement here. No democracy has
been threatened like Israel with
enemies that seek our destruction
and fired thousands of missiles on
us. Just imagine thousands and
thousands of missiles on London. You
don't have to imagine it. You've had
it. Look at what was done in
retribution. We haven't done that.
We act in moral ways. Our army.
There's no more more alarmy in the
world that's maligned. The battle of
Israel, the battle I'm involved
with, is to dispel thee lice. I have
no compunction in doing so. Israel
stands out as a beacon of democracy
and self-restraint in a sea of
troubles in the wanton, violent
attacks which are meant to destroy
us. That should serve as an ample to
others around us. There are others
in the region who do not do this.
there is one thing that upsets
supporters of the Israel, including
many Jewish leaders in country, is
the push of settlements. Your own
defence minister said the rate of
sitlements from areas ask faster
than at any time since 2009. This is
the one thing that makes supporters
of Israel Des pair, including in
I think the
settlements are an issue. They are
settlements are an issue. They are
not the issue. . The issue is the
100-year-old persistent refusal of
the Palestinian leadership to
recognise the state and Jewish
boundary. I do take issue with one
other thing since I am here. I think
the idea that dues cannot live in
Judea is crazy.
At the moment, this
is Palestinian territory. You are
It is disputed territory.
The UN says it is a flag rant breach
of the law.
People I think the facts
are different. I think the central
fact is this. Settlements is a side
Not to the
Palestinians, it's not.
I think it
is too. When we removed all the
settlements from Gazza and did what
they say, go back to the 67 lines,
take away the settlements, Gazza
didn't become peaceful. They
launched thousands of rockets from
Gazza we vacated from Israel. Not
against Tel Aviv, jeer us 'em. Every
part of Israel. I asked them why
they are doing this rhetorically. Is
it to liberate the West Bank. They
said, that too, no, we want to
liberate Palestine. Tel Aviv.
in a war with ham mass. They've done
a deal with Fatah. Do you
distinguish between Fatah and Hamas
in this regard?
Yes, I do. Hamas
takes it's goal of destroying Israel
and translates it into act of
terror. That is the not case with
the Palestinian Authority. One would
hope that Hamas would move to that
position and not have the
Palestinian Authority move to Hamas.
I would say this, unity for peace is
good. Unity for the destruction of
Israel is bad. And that's what we're
What is also clear is that your
policy for Gaza is not working, the
policy of having a kind of cordon
around Gaza, King of blockade, that
has actually increased the power of
Hamas in Gaza, and is raising calls
about the human rights situation
inside Gaza. This policy is simply
Hamas is 30,000 armed
thugs, where they periodically
execute people in -- Palestinians
and Gazans. An AK-47 bullet back of
the neck for anyone who tried to
relieve the people of Gaza from
this. This is what I have done.
have shot a lot of people there as
I have opened up the border
crossings, to enable 1000 trucks a
day of goods, food, medicine,
anything you want, unlimited
supplies coming into Gaza, as long
as they are not weapons. And in fact
it is Israel right now, if I had to
say it is one country, Israel, more
than any other actually taking care
of the population of Gaza, because
we have no quarrel with the
population. We do have a quarrel
with those who have hijacked them
and use the territory of Gaza to
launch a war against Israel. One day
I hope we will be rid of Hamas and
they will disarm, and then we can
have a glorious future.
at the Palestinian state very
vividly, you have said actually,
what we can't have is an armed
hostile anti-keeper-mac state
sitting on our border for ever --
and the Israeli state sitting on our
border forever. You used the term,
Palestinian entity. Are you
suggesting what Palestinians might
get is, as it were, the status of a
kind of self-governing territory
inside a greater Israel.
they should have all the powers to
govern themselves and none of the
powers to threaten us, which means
it has to be...
Following -- falling
short of fools take, in other words.
The Middle East is full of stories
of collapsing states and so on, so
that means if we withdraw our armed
security control from an area, what
happened invariably is militant
Islam comes in, whether Daesh, Isis,
Hamas, backed by Iran, and either
one is horrible, not only for us but
also for the Palestinians or the
Lebanese. You just heard the Prime
Minister of Lebanon on resigning and
he said basically, Hezbollah took
over, which means a run took over,
and I think this is a wake-up call
for everyone. It says what the
Middle East is really experiencing
-- which means Iran to cover. I
think when Israelis and Arabs, and
it is all the Arabs and the
Israelis, agree on one thing, people
should pay attention. We should stop
this Iranian takeover, for your
interest as well.
I want to come to
run directly in a moment, but if you
talk to almost any British MP, they
say two state solution, two state
solution, but the way you are
talking it sounds as if I2-mac state
solution is more or less over and we
are moving to a different one, one
state solution. -- it sounds as if a
two state solution is more or less
I am unabashed about saying
that I do not want this two state
solution to be over but we don't
want something to threaten our
lives. What is the other state,
Costa Rica or North Korea? Another
many Iran, Luxembourg? Nobody asks
that. When you say two states, if it
is not demilitarised and doesn't
recognise the state of Israel which
the Palestinians still refuse to do,
it merely becomes a platform for
continuing the war against the one
Jewish state, so I think you have to
be more specific and say, no, what
we want is the recognition, finally,
100 years after the Balfour
Declaration, finally recognise the
Jewish state, expletive deleted, but
recognise it, and make sure that
Palestinians do not have the weapons
to destroy it.
You have been talking
about all of this with Donald Trump,
a man with a slightly dodgy
reputation in this country, but you
have just seen him up close and
personal. What do you make of him?
Firstly I think he has leadership
qualities, and I think he sees in
the Middle East something different.
There are some people who saw Iran
as the solution for the problems in
the Middle East.
Lake Barack Obama,
By the way I had a very
good relationship with Barack Obama,
and we did agree on things, and we
signed our memorandum of
understanding, 10-year security
package, and I welcome and respect
that, but I disagreed with him on
Iran because, yes, I think he saw
Iran as a solution in many ways, and
Donald Trump sees Iran is the
problem, but it is not Donald Trump
this is Iran is the problem. We do
and the Arab states do. And Hariri
who just resigned does as well, and
And between Israel and
many of the Sunni states, against
Iran. It is almost the way you speak
about them as if you see them as one
of those great empires, moving from
Asia right away to the
Mediterranean, and you have said
very clearly, putting aside the
nuclear issue, we must them doing
that. We will not let them get to
the Mediterranean, we will not let
them an American Shi'ite empire
spreading right the way to the
shores of the Mediterranean. How
will you do that?
Iran will Putin
calls for destruction, and something
even in your experience, -- will put
in calls. Iran openly says, we are
out to destroy what they call us,
the small states come on the way to
the big states, the United States...
You are a middle state.
This is what Iran wants to
do. It is seeking to colonise Syria
for that purpose, and that is to
Lebanon-ise Syria and that is what
in Lebanon on President Hariri
basically resigned over, probably
killed his father, and could have
And for so-called Isis
and the Islamic State...
move out, Iran moves in, but they
want to bring in their air force,
they want to bring in Shi'ite and
divisions, submarines and military
vessels, right into the
Mediterranean right next to Israel,
so we will not let that happen and
we will resist.
You would go to war
to stop that happening?
The more we are prepared to stop it
the less likely it is we will have
to resort to much greater things.
There is a principle I very much at
YouTube, nip bad things at the bud
-- I very much it adhere to.
have it rocket attacks, Lebanon,
things moving in the Horn of Africa,
and you can see it as a big
situation. At this stage are we
drifting or moving towards a major
war in the region between Iran and
her allies and proxies on the one
side, and Israel and the Sunni
states on the other?
definitely a conflict, and you're
right, and alignment in the region,
but I think it is the battle between
medievalism and modernity. Israel
stands for modernity, and these
forces have to resist the onslaught
of this militant Islamism. Which
uses rockets, terrorism, suicide
bombers and so on, and the sparks of
that firmament you see on the
streets of London. It medievalism
wins they are, you lose here, so we
are really on the front line of this
great battle for the future of the
world, not really the future of the
Middle East, but the world.
think Donald Trump gets it and is at
I think he definitely
understands that Iran is the primary
problem. It probably accounts for
95% of the problems we experienced
now in the Middle East, and it is a
good thing that he gets it.
ask you about the condition of Jews
in this country, because there are a
lot of Jewish friends and community
reader mights very worried about
your Government and they see
particularly the settlement issue
has made it much harder to defend
Israel in this country. We have
always had anti-Semitism in Britain
but it has been quiet for a long
time, and it is back on the rise.
wouldn't blame Jews for
anti-Semitism any more than I would
blame blacks for racial hatred
towards them or about anti-gay
hatred, because of what they are...
But distinction between Jews and
You know what happened,
Theresa May gave an extraordinary
speech. On the Balfour Centennial,
and she said," you cannot go and
attack and say that Britain has no
right to exist because you impose
some of the British Government
policies. Britain has a right to
exist, Israel has a right to exist.
You may disagree with this or that
policy but you would never question
any other country's right to exist
based on this or that disagreement
with the policy. " But this is
levelled against Israel and Konta
One of the big
supporters of Palestinian rights in
this country is the Labour Party
leader Jeremy Corbyn who has said
previously we shouldn't allow free
access for what he calls Israel's
terminal politicians to come into
this country. He might very well be
Britain's Prime Minister before
long. What would that the
relationships? Should you not pick
up the telephone and taught him?
First of all the British people
decide who they want to come and be
Prime Minister, but I hope there
will be a continuity of British
policy with Israel because there is
something people don't know. That
cooperation has saved many lives,
many Israeli lives, many many
British lives, because we have an
intense cooperation between our
security and intelligence agencies,
and it is protecting Britain and
protecting Israel, and it is
something I hope will continue in
Mr Netanyahu, thanks
very much indeed for talking to us.
Murder on the Orient Express is one
of Agatha Christie's finest stories,
immortalised on screen
more than once.
A new film version,
directed by Kenneth Branagh,
who also takes the part
of Poirot, has a classy cast.
I caught up with two of its stars,
Michelle Pfeiffer and Olivia Colman,
who gave me a few clues
as to why this mystery train
has timeless appeal.
My name is Hercule Poirot,
and I am probably the greatest
detective in the world.
I must recommend you remain
in your compartments
with the doors locked.
I feel like a prisoner here.
It is for your own safety.
This is a hugely enjoyable film.
You have the great reveal,
which is that thing on
Kenneth Branagh's face!
What did you think
when you first saw it?
I thought, what is that
thing on Kenneth...
No, I thought, this
And I thought, I don't know how I'm
going to act with this moustache!
He also never looked more handsome.
It suits him, doesn't it?
I think he's quite hot
with the big tash.
It is like this vast grey marmoset
sitting on his face.
I can't remember
the exact words now,
but Agatha Christie
says it's meant to be...
The most magnificent
moustache in England.
And it certainly is.
It has to be big.
Can I then ask you both about your
characters, about Mrs Hubbard?
She's a socialitE, she's brittle,
she's on the hunt for husbands.
Is she the person, do you think,
Agatha Christie might have wanted
to be herself?
Well, some have said
that she exemplifies maybe the inner
loneliness of Agatha Christie.
Travelling alone was very dangerous
and in some ways scandalous
for a woman, travelling alone.
Eyes linger any longer,
I'll have to charge you rent.
And Mrs Schmidt sitting
there observing silently
the whole way through.
You are Judi Dench's handmaiden
which is quite a role to take on.
Tell us a little bit about that.
I think Kenneth Branagh said he cast
you because he wanted somebody who
could be silent, and
yet you couldn't help
observing all the time.
He cast me because he wanted
someone to be silent?
It's like he never met me at all.
Apart from bits where
you speak very good German.
Oh, thanks very much!
Took an awfully long
time to learn that.
Not sure a German would say such
nice things, but thank you.
It was, well, heaven.
I sat next to Judi Dench
all day holding a dog.
It was heaven.
This is all about master-servant
or mistress-servant relationships,
which Agatha Christie
was fascinated by.
Who's really in control?
Is it the servant all along who is
somehow controlling her countess?
I'd like to say, yes,
but I don't think so.
I think it is very much
the Countess in this occasion.
Michelle, for quite a long time -
it's often been said Hollywood
hasn't been very good at roles
for women over 40.
And I know Meryl Streep and Jane
Fonda have campaigned on this.
I wonder if it's now
beginning to change?
You know, in films, I'm not so sure.
I feel more in television
there are more and more interesting
parts for women of all ages.
And, in film, I'm actually
not convinced so much.
I think Meryl does all the really
great parts for women over 40.
That's a kind of rule, isn't it?
It is a very male-dominated
kind of industry
going through a terrible crisis,
the Harvey Weinstein business.
Were you yourself, you've
been a big, big actress
there for 20 years or so,
did you know about this stuff?
Did you have any
I never worked with Harvey.
I've had some experiences.
I have to say, since this has all
come out, there really hasn't been
one woman I've talked to
who hasn't had an experience.
It just goes to show you
how systemic the problem is.
I'm having conversations with women
I've known my whole life
and we've never discussed this and
it's coming out.
You think this is going to change
the atmosphere for younger women
coming into the industry
that men are going to
think three or four times?
I think all the men
are thinking, yeah.
...Should bloody well hope so.
There's a lot of reflection
going on with men and women.
I was thinking myself,
thinking back, thinking, well,
you know, where is that line
between, oh, I got hit on and I was
in appropriately, you know...
Is it about power?
Well, I think when you're
in a position of power and
you're in a position to intimidate
someone, then it becomes...
There are cases where there
are young women in their 20s...
It seems to be women in like,
it's women in their young 20s.
Who are younger.
They are purposefully targeted.
We've been talking about the queen
of crime Agatha Christie.
Let's turn to the Queen of England.
You've been announced
as the new Queen in The Crown.
What happened when you heard
about the The Crown?
You presumably got a phone call
saying you got the gig.
I was on speaker phone
in the car with my husband.
We'd recently finished
watching The Crown.
My agent said, "Would
you go and meet -
It's a secret," and
she was trying to be subtle.
"...About a tiara,"
and I said, "The Crown,
The Crown, oh, my God, yeah!"
My husband was silently
clapping in the background.
So we were quite excited.
I was very excited.
Thank you both very much.
It's been a rotten week
for the Government.
And, generally, what happens
at the end of a rotten week
for the government is that
Sir Michael Fallon appears
on programmes like this to tell us
how well Theresa May is doing.
Now, this weekend, for reasons
that I hope are obvious,
he is unavailable.
But I am joined by the Home
Secretary Amber Rudd -
which shows perhaps how important
she has become to the Prime Minister
and why she is being tipped
for even higher things.
Can I make a parallel. I've been
around for a long time. This feels a
little bit like John Major's
Government after the back to basics
speech when Kay after day after day
there was yet another story and
another and another. It was drip,
drip, drip. It she hadded and
exhausted that Government. The same
thing's happening to you. Can I put
it to you this is not tittle tattle,
it is politically serious? ?
serious. This is about cross-party
change. It is the Labour Party, the
whole of Westminster. What we're see
something a wholesale change taking
place. We've seen the abuse of power
in particular. And the widespread
cultural change that needs to take
place as Wes recognise that. We will
be recognising that. We are going to
be making changes. It has to stop.
There's been a really big focus this
morning in particular on the role of
the whip's office. You heard Anna
Soubry saying they must have known
much more. They mousse come to the
Prime Minister and tell them
everything they know and she must
demand that and you as Home
Secretary. Is that happening? Will
The Prime Minister
tomorrow will work across party with
the party lead tors make sure a
system's put in place.
on your party and the role of
Conservative whips in all of this.
I'm just as concerned as Home
Secretary for all women in
Parliament. I'm happy to answer your
question on the Conservative Party
as well. I was a whip myself. I
don't recognise some of those more
lurid stories told about the sort of
things whips new and did.
I just don't recognise it. I
tell it as it is. Our aim was to
make sure we got Government business
through as whip. We try to
accommodate people's lives so they
were there to vote. That sort of
thing. I don't recognise the other
I understand it is a black
and white picture and more extreme
than in reality. However, there was
a black book or spreadsheet of miss
So you say. I spent a
year in there and there wasn't one.
I think Parliament has changed a
lot. No longer have midnight
sittings. Has become more
family-friendly. But it has to do
Tim Fortescue said, who was a
Tory whip, it was a TV programme
looking at the whip's office. Anyone
in trouble would come to the whips.
They'd say, I was in a jam. It might
be debt. A scandal involving small
boys. We'd do everything we can to
help we'd score browny points. If he
can get a chap out of trouble, he'll
do what we ask for ever more. That
is precisely the problem.
disgraceful, shocking. When was
That was in the 170s.
isn't the Parliament I know. The
whip's office where I work. That was
in the past. I'm not saying there
isn't a lot of change to take place,
there is. I want to work in a place
where there is respect.
You say it
is in the past. Let me read you what
Katie Perrier said. Recently part of
the Government and worked in Downing
Street a few months ago. She says
this information is held by the
whips. They use to to make sure MPs
within the party know exactly what
they've been up to and that brave
your is not acceptable or used
against him. You vote a certain way
or we'll tell your wife what you've
been up to. Information's being held
for partisan reasons to get
legislation through rather than
being passed to the proper
authorities, including the police.
just don't agree with you. I spent a
year in the whips office under
George Young. There was no black
book or that influence going on. It
was much more about getting
Government business through. That's
the whip's office. I recognise there
is a really important change that
needs to take place in Westminster.
It is not just Westminster. It is
other workplaces as well. We heard
mish eel fiver saying what was going
on in that industry. This is an
international, cross-business change
that needs to take place to support
particularly young women in work.
be absolutely clear, are you saying
the whips didn't know anything at
all about Sir Michael Fallon in the
past? There are suggestions they
There is a lot of suggestion in
the papers. I can't guess about what
might have known what rumour or
truth. I am saying how I operated as
a whip in the whip's office when I
Can you at least say
whatever they do know they must take
to the Prime Minister. It must be on
the table between you, the Prime
Minister and the whips so the
information's out there before it
turns up in the newspaper?
Absolutely. There should be total
candour. If they are rumours,
allegations, we need to find out
what's going on and deal with them
in a transparent way so they don't
This has been driven
all the way through by newspaper
story, splash after splash after
dirty splash. Are there more
splashes to come?
I don't know. Some
of these have surprised me. We
should make the distinction between
some very serious allegations and
some which is tittle tattle. We have
to be careful about the distinctions
Let's look at the Damian Green
tittle tattle this morning in the
papers today. We have a former, very
senior policeman alleging something
about the efwektively Deputy Prime
Minister. Is this the proper way for
the police to behave?
That is a
reasonable question. The Cabinet
Office will look at this tomorrow
along with the wider inquiry about
Damian. We shouldn't rush to allege
anything until that inquiry's has
What about the way he's
treated the woman who madal gazes
against him. The lawyers have been
called in. It seems a very heavy and
scary response. If you are another
young whom who feels they've been
mistreated that kind of thing will
put you off telling anybody.
men and women who have been subject
to any sort of abuse of power should
have the confidence to come forward.
I also think people who are, This is
they've been wrongly accused should
absolutely be able to come out and
say, this is not true. Damian's made
some very strong statements on that
He certainly has. Let's talk
about the politics of all of this.
Is a crucial anything in Theresa
May's Cabinet. Are you close now to
a complete collapse. If he goes, it
seems as if the whole centre of
thely not. It is something that will
take place in terms of clearing out
Westminster of that sort of behave
your. Westminster, afterwards,
including the Government, will be
better for it. When we are confident
that men and women can work in a
respectful environment and people
who have been on the receiving end
of abuse of power can come forward,
that will be a positive thing. I
would like to sea, the Government's
committed to delivering on its
agenda. I know there is a lot of
interest in this. It is right there
is and we change it. We are doing
other things do.
He Rennes other
things and an agenda. You've an
announcement today about child
pornography, about the treatment of
much younger women than the ones we
are talking about?
I'm going to
Washington this week to make sure we
step up our fight against child
sexual exploitation. We've seen the
real growth of child sexual
exploitation internationally. We
need to work with the Americans to
take action against it. There's much
more that the internet companies can
do. They do quite a lot already. But
the growth has been exponential. We
need to make sure they put their
technological know how into
addressing it. Particularly working
with smaller platforms where
children go to game online, to meet
each other. There are peed times
working there. We need to make sure
the internet companies work with us
in partnership to change this.
me return, if you don't mind, to
Westminster politics. Can you
understand why there is so much
anger directed against Mr Williamson
who's taken over as Defence
He's the Prime Minister's
choice. I'm sure he'll do a very
Gavin Williamson is a real
slime ball with his own leadership
team in place. Theresa May has gone
mad. It's a real end of days stuff
says the huffing tonne post quoting
somebody else. Someone else she's so
weak she's let Williamson appoint
himself. Somebody else, straight
from the school of party
managementment. It is like House Of
Cards the original version. I'm sure
he'll go forward and be a great
Defence Secretary. The idea of the
Chief Whip appearing in a key
position in the Cabinet is straight
out of House Of Cards?
Minister can appoint her own
You can say Andrew, I
couldn't possibly comment.
fall into that one particularly.
Gavin will be a great Defence
Secretary, part of the team.
the centre of the story. Can I ask
you about Mr Garnier, who has been
investigated under the Ministerial
Code of Conduct. But the allegations
against him go seven years before he
was a minister. A lot of people
watching, is the ministerial #k0eed
of conduct endlessly retrospective,
the way Amber Rudd or anyone else
behaved when they were 17. It seems
All of these allegations
will be properly investigated so
there is no place for these
allegations to hide so everybody can
kneel confident when they come
forward, and she should if they have
something to say, it is fairly dealt
Do you think we'll see another
Sunday like this?
I certainly hope
not. I hope we'll see more evidence
of what the Government's doing to
deliver on its agenda. In my case,
making the online world safer. In
Jeremy Hunt's case, making the NHS
better. All the things that matter
to Government, I hope we can see
more of that.
Now a look at what's coming up
straight after this programme:
On Sunday Morning Live,
the sexual harassment scandal.
Is it time to put
the house in order
or is it becoming a witch-hunt?
James Bond star Naomi Harris
tells us about a new scheme
to help the homeless.
And poet Benjamin Zephaniah reveals
why studying tai chi in China
has changed his attitude to life.
Join us at 10.00am.
That's all for this week.
Next week, we have a special
extended Remembrance Sunday
Among my guests four
really big bosses -
the engineering tycoon
Sir James Dyson,
the Chief of the Defence Staff,
plus the Head of the National Trust
and the Mayor of London.
Until then, goodbye.
Interviews with key newsmakers and cultural figures. Andrew's guests include Israeli prime minister Benjamin Netanyahu, home secretary Amber Rudd MP, shadow secretary for women and equalities Dawn Butler MP, Olivia Colman and Michelle Pfeiffer. The newspapers are reviewed by Labour MP Kate Hoey, Conservative MP Anna Soubry and deputy political editor of The Times Sam Coates.