05/11/2017 The Andrew Marr Show


05/11/2017

Interviews with key newsmakers and cultural figures. Andrew's guests include Benjamin Netanyahu, Amber Rudd MP, Dawn Butler MP, Olivia Colman and Michelle Pfeiffer.


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Transcript


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Remember, remember,

the 5th of November.

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Backbiting, leaking and plot.

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If this lot gets clear to November

next year, it's all down to

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luck, quite a lot.

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Now, both major parties

have been rocked by

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allegations of gross

misbehaviour by their MPs.

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To talk about that and more

I'm joined by the Home

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Secretary Amber Rudd,

and Labour's Women and Equalities

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Secretary Dawn Butler.

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But for those of you wondering

what else is happening in the world

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beyond Westminster, I'm talking

to Israel's Prime Minister, Benjamin

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Netanyahu - about the peace process,

Iran, and anti-Semitism in Britain.

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And, as it happens, the story

from that new blockbuster Murder

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on the Orient Express

opens in Jerusalem.

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I've been talking to two

of its stars, Michelle Pfeiffer

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and Olivia Colman, who told me her

reaction to

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landing the role of the Queen

in Netflix's The Crown.

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Then my agent said,

"Would you go and meet - it's a

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secret," and she was

trying to be subtle -

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and I went, "The Crown,

The

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Crown, oh, my God, yeah!"

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And reviewing the news

this morning, the

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former Tory Defence

Minister Anna Soubry, Sam

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Coates, the deputy political

editor of the Times,

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and the Labour MP Kate Hoey.

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But first the news

with Roger Johnson.

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Good morning.

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Theresa May's most senior minister,

Damian Green,

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The

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has denied that pornography

was found on a computer

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when his Westminster office

was raided by police in 2008.

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The claim, made by a former

senior police officer,

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is reported in the Sunday Times.

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Mr Green, who is First Secretary

of State, said the allegation

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was completely untrue, and

came from an untrustworthy source.

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More allegations have emerged about

the conduct of MPs this morning,

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as our political correspondent

Iain Watson reports.

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That allegation in the Sunday

Times that pornography

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was found on a computer

in Damian Green's office

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dates from 2008.

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This was during a controversial

inquiry into Home Office

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leaks, which briefly led

to Mr Green's arrest.

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As Theresa May's second-in-command,

she wouldn't want to lose him

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from her Cabinet, and he's responded

robustly to the allegation.

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In a statement, he said,

"This story is completely untrue."

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He called it "A disreputable

political smear."

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He added...

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In turn, he accuses the officer

in charge of the investigation nine

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years ago, Bob Quick,

of breaching his duty

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to keep the details

of the investigation confidential.

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Mr Quick has been

unavailable for comment.

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This weekend allegations of improper

behaviour in and around Westminster

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have been filling the front pages,

and even when ministers resign

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that's rarely the end of the story.

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Another allegation has

emerged about Sir Michael

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Fallon's past behaviour -

in the Observer newspaper

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the journalist Jane Merrick said

she informed Downing Street this

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week of an incident in 2003.

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And hours later he resigned

as Defence Secretary.

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Friends of some Michael Fallon have

denied the allegation,

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but it is understood his ministerial

career ended because he couldn't

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guarantee they would be no

further revelations.

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Iain Watson, BBC News.

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President Trump has arrived

in Japan, the first stop on what

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will be the longest tour of Asia

by a US President in 25 years.

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Mr Trump's trip comes at a time

of heightened tensions

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with North Korea over its nuclear

programme and missile tests.

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He's already met the Japanese

Prime Minister Shinzo Abe at

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a country club for a round of golf.

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Social media giants must do more

to stop child sexual exploitation,

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the Home Secretary has said,

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as new Government figures show

a rise in indecent images

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of children being reported

to the police.

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Writing in the Sun on Sunday,

Amber Rudd, a guest on this

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programme in a moment,

said that companies

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have a moral duty to go further

and faster in tackling abuse.

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Technology firms insist

they're doing their utmost

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to keep their young users safe.

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That's all from me.

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The next news on BBC One

is at one o'clock.

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Back to you, Andrew.

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Thank you, Roger.

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Now to the papers.

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and on and

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-- and there is the Jane Merrick

story about that incident some time

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ago. And this is on the role of the

whips in all this, have they

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released information as quickly as

they should have to the Prime

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Minister, or is it indeed all being

driven by press? Top Tory's

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bathrobe... That very same story

about the Damian Green in

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pornography shock, the story he has

denied. We will start with you.

Yes,

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if you had told me a week ago I

would be reading a statement from

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the de facto Deputy Prime Minister

like this I would have laughed it

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off, but this is no laughing matter.

Last night Damian Green released

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under him and statement denying a

number of allegations appearing in

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these newspapers this morning. He

said suggestions there was some kind

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of pornography on equipment that was

seized from his office in 2009 is

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completely Andre -- untrue. This is

an week he released.

Bob quick is

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named on the front page of the

Sunday Times.

Yes, the former head

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of counterterrorism who lost his job

some years ago, and he essentially

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blames him for, as it were,

political smear, and denies the

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allegation covering the front page

of the Sunday Times.

Sam, going back

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to the origins of all this, when the

Tories were in opposition and I

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think Damian Green was the

spokesperson on home affairs he got

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a series of leaks from the Home

Office which the then Labour

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Government sent the Home Office into

enquire about and they were sent

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into his office, huge investigation

and he was exonerated and so on, but

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this goes back to them because the

man leading the hunt was the same Mr

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Quick is on the front page of the

Times.

The allegation, which Mr

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Green denies, was that on one of the

laptops seized as part of that raid

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there was deeply unpleasant, not

illegal, but unpleasant images, the

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sort of thing that would perhaps

mean you could no longer continue in

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your job if it was a public official

and on their laptop, but

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nevertheless so problematic.

I am

trying to be as fair as possible.

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This was a laptop in his office.

There was no understanding it was

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actually him... If the material was

there it could have been somebody

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else, people in and out of the

office and working for them all the

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time.

This matter will now form part

of the inquiry into Damian Green's

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conduct, but be aware of the kind of

hurdles you would have to get past

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to fight against them, you would

have to establish beyond doubt the

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material was there, that he had

looked at it, that he perhaps had

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downloaded it.

Lots of unanswerable

questions then. We will come onto

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the politics in a moment, but let's

talk about the Jane Merrick story.

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Firstly, lets make this clear, with

Damian, who is it should have been

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suspended to that could have been a

proper inquiry, this has formed that

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and instead we are pretty much

having trialled by the newspapers.

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This is not acceptable. These are

very serious allegations in relation

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to other people and it has all been

blurred and conflated and this is a

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disgraceful way for us to conduct

our politics and very serious

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allegations, and further evidence of

that is that Jane Merrick, who has

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been outstandingly brave, the way

she found herself in a position

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where something had happened to her

some time ago, and where did she go

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in order to make a complaint? As we

now no, she went to Harriet Harman,

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and then to me, and we both

absolutely promised to keep her

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identity confidential and we stuck

to that, and then I contacted Number

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Ten, and as a result of that Jane

contacted Number Ten. And I know the

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Courage...

This is why he has

resigned?

Yes. And to be clear about

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this, we cannot have today this

going on any longer. People must

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have, today, a system where they

don't have to go to the press in

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order to make their complaint or

have to find some MP's telephone

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number they know who would take

things seriously. This is all about

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protecting other men and, notably,

women, and there is nothing the

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moment... I think our Prime Minister

must lead on this, and she must give

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an assurance that, you know, people

must be able now to make their

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complaints, so that we stop the sort

of behaviour that Jane and others

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have had to endure for years.

OK,

now, to be absolutely clear to

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everyone I should see some Michael

Fallon denies a lot of...

He doesn't

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deny what he did to Jane.

Trial by

newspaper is also a very interesting

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phrase because you are quoted on the

front page of the Sunday Telegraph

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talking about the Whips' Office. "It

Is difficult to know that for didn't

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know much of the detail of these

various allegations, and they

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probably know more. I was astonished

that Gavin Williamson was appointed

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as Defence Secretary." They used to

keep what we called the Black book,

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now the black spreadsheet, facts on

MPs to basically use as blackmail...

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That is not true. At the very top of

the Whips' Office, as far as I know

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because I have never been a whip,

and this is in both parties, there

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will be stuff that is known about

people, you might have a drink, so

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somebody might actually assault

weapon, and the have that

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information for a pastoral role when

people go to make complaints, and

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this is the problem the Whips'

Office has. Their primary role is to

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make sure Government or opposition

business goes through, but of course

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they have these are the roles which

are incredibly important, the

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welfare of members of Parliament, of

our staff, and at the same time,

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though, they are trying to get

Government business through, so it

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is a contradiction and that has to

stop, at the senior level of the

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Whips' Office, undoubtedly, they

have known all manner of

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allegations, and again I think the

time has now come when we have to

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draw a halt to this. All the stuff

that they know must be given to the

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Prime Minister and her aides, one in

particular who are completely trust,

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and we must do things properly, and

not do this behind the scenes, in

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some instances covering up which is

totally unacceptable, but also when

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there are allegations, they go to

the police or some other body

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immediately, so we don't have

people's reputation is being trashed

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in the newspapers.

OK, and to be

absolutely clear, before I come onto

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the BORIS BECKER:, tomorrow morning

the Prime Minister sits down with

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all of this in front of her.

What should she do? -- before I come

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onto Kate, tomorrow morning.

Well,

Esther will not know much of this

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because she has just come on, but

she needs to go to the Chief Whip

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and so on and say, criminal

investigations must go straight to

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the police, other matters must go

into a new thing she needs to create

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immediately some people like Jane

don't have to go around in the way I

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described, and this must also happen

in Kate's party because it is just

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as big a problem...

In the Labour

Party there have been allegations of

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rape, groping, really gross

misconduct while Labour officials

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and MPs as well and at least one

person, John Mann...

Yes, I think we

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can all agree this is crossing

party, no credit any political party

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can take out of this, but John Mann,

who has done a lot of work on this

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in the Sunday People today, he has

come up with a number of steps we

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need to take, and I think it is

important talking about what is

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happening now that we need to

seriously look at what we can do. It

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is interesting, Anna, because one

thing he is very clear on is the

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whips, and detox specifically about

Labour whips and the Labour

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readership not to hate reports of

abuse and harassment -- is speaks

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specifically about. Parliament is a

huge working institution that has

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not been brought up to modern times.

And we are all supposed to employ

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our own staff but most people did

not get elected to Parliament to

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have personnel, and saw all that

needs to be looked at but the one

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thing I would say, I think it is

really important that anyone accused

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of anything is given a second back

and open way of responding,

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otherwise I think there will be a

lot of things that happen... People

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see things for grievances and all

sorts of reasons and we need

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absolute transparency.

Absolutely,

Sam, and I suggested we would come

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onto the hard politics that flows

from all of this. What sort of depth

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of trouble is the Government in now,

do you think?

I think it is

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significant.

You have to remember we were already

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dealing with the most fragile

Government of my lifetime, one that

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does not have a majority in the

Commons, the Prime Minister lost

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quite a lot of authority by calling

the election that backfired and it

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has the most difficult task of any

Government of the last 40 years in

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terms of Brexit, which they have to

do while having no money. That is

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the backdrop. At the heart of what

we are seeing at the moment, you

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have a really worrying situation

from the Government point of view.

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This Government is essentially run

by two people, so Jeremy Heywood,

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the Cabinet Secretary, and Damian

Green. Damian Green is under

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investigation for allegations he

denies.

Is being investigated...

By

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Sir Jeromy, the ten days ago

revealed he had been ill quite

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recently with cancer, so you have a

situation where the top of the

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Government feels very fragile. If it

is, what we see at the moment, it

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leads to Damian Green's departure,

it would be a massive further blow,

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and there are MPs, ministers and

Cabinet ministers incredibly worried

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about whether or not this Government

can continue to hang on, not that

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they have any idea what to do in its

place.

But I think it is a bigger

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thing.

Bigger than that?

It is how

we conduct politics and I think most

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people watching politics at home on

this programme, in the real world,

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they will see damn all of you.

I

need to move onto one big political

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story. Brexit carries on through all

of this, and there are two stories,

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Kate, about Brexit, one in the

Sunday Express, an interesting new

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proposal for Frank Field?

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Frank feels as many of us do, this

whole EU Withdrawal Bill, which has

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400 amendments, 69 pages. It's all

meant to be done in the next number

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of months. But, of course, what he

is saying is we could do it

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differently. We could have a very

simple four-clause bill which puts

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the date of leaving which then

brings all of the law automatically

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into our law and then we can move on

to actually look at what we want to

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keep and what we don't.

From your

side of the argument, there are

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people who think Parliament will

betray the vote?

Yes, I think what

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he says here, he put it very

strongly, too many he doesn't name

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people, MPs were wolves in sheep's

clothing. They're pretending they

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wish to engage crop instructively

with the Government to improve the

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bill but too many of this group have

really the aim of wrecking the bill.

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I'm aphrase that is the feeling out

there in the country. This is

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getting delayed so much, there are

so many people who are actually

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almost working against the interests

of getting a good deal. He's, his

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clause will be one of the first

ones. I'm sure Anna will be opposing

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it. It will be one. First coming

up.

Anna's sitting there...

Look, we

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need to put all this law into the

substantive British law. You have a

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former Attorney General, Dominic

Grieve, hardly known as some pink

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Tory. I'm a lawyer, Nicky Morgan's a

lawyer, this is a nothing wrong with

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that, we are protecting our

constitution and we want a good

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deal.

We've finally run Ute of time.

We could sit here engaging in

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converse all morning. But much else

to talk about.

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Now, as we've been hearing,

allegations of sexual harassment

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and, even, rape, are issues for

the Labour Party and Jeremy Corbyn

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as much as for the Government.

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I'm joined by Dawn Butler,

Labour's Shadow Secretary

0:17:350:17:37

for Women & Equalities.

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Do you accept the Labour Party faces

just as serious allegations and

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problems as the Conservative do?

It

is an issue which needs to be

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tackled seriously. We need to

address it in Parliament. But also,

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everywhere else. It is not just

unique to Westminster. We have to

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address it. The Labour Party has to

take it seriously. I think the

0:17:550:17:58

Labour Party has proved to be taking

it seriously.

Well, that's the

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question really for the Labour Party

Kelvin Hopkins was the subject of

0:18:030:18:08

very serious allegations by a young

Labour Party worker. Can I ask you

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first of all, at what point the

leadership new about these

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allegations? I don't want to discuss

individual cases because I think

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that's inappropriate, especially if

there's an investigation taking

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place. As with anything, if I can

talk generally, if somebody's being

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promoted into the Shadow Cabinet,

say, it is in order for the whip to

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say whether there's an outstanding

issue against somebody or an issue

0:18:360:18:39

that's been resolved. If there was

an issue and it's been resolved,

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that's the the end of the matter. If

it is an issue which is ongoing,

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that's something very different. It

is important... That the processes

0:18:480:18:53

are right. They are clear, it is

important they are France parent and

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it is important if -- transparent.

It is important someone's issues is

0:18:570:19:02

staken seriously and they are

treated sensitively throughout the

0:19:020:19:05

process.

This is only words unless

action is taking. Your then chief

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win said she horrified. She said it

is not too late to change this

0:19:160:19:20

appointment but the appointment was

maintained. That has caused a lot of

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hurt and upset to ordinary Labour

Party members.

Andrew, I don't know

0:19:240:19:29

what Rosie Winterton said in that

regard.

She's been public about it.

0:19:290:19:35

But understand is when the Chief

Whip was informed of an issue

0:19:350:19:39

against a member, it was dealt with

by both sides and they were both

0:19:390:19:43

happy with the outcome. If that's

the case, the process is if there is

0:19:430:19:47

an issue and that issue's dealt with

and both sides are happy, then

0:19:470:19:51

that's the end of the matter.

Do you

know whether or not Jeremy Corbyn

0:19:510:19:54

was told?

As I said, I don't want to

talk about individual cases.

Let's

0:19:540:20:00

talk a the leader of the Labour

Party. Did he know?

I want to talk

0:20:000:20:03

about the process. If the leader of

the Labour Party was told there was

0:20:030:20:06

an issue against a member and that

issue has now been rest afflict to

0:20:060:20:11

the agreement of both sides, then

it's not something... What we don't

0:20:110:20:14

have in Parliament, if you were to

say to, Andrew, one second. If you

0:20:140:20:19

said to me there is an issue of

sanctions, that's different. If

0:20:190:20:24

someone's been given a verbal

abolishment and there's a sanction

0:20:240:20:28

to say you cannot be promoted for

six or 12 months, that's a different

0:20:280:20:32

issue. Which haven't got that in

pavement. Maybe at the meeting

0:20:320:20:37

tomorrow with the Prime Minister we

can talk about sanctions. If there

0:20:370:20:41

is a case against an MP, where they

are suspended or there's an

0:20:410:20:45

investigation, that needs to be due

process. It needs to be transparent

0:20:450:20:48

and clear.

We want that but in the

end, this is the same old business.

0:20:480:20:52

It was swept under the carpet at the

time. You said the woman concerned

0:20:520:20:57

was perfectly happy in. In which

case why has she been all over the

0:20:570:21:01

media talking about this experience.

She was deeply upset and inningered

0:21:010:21:06

about this.

The Labour Party kept it

private. That's not what I said. I

0:21:060:21:12

said if the cheap whip says to the

leader of the Labour Party there was

0:21:120:21:15

an issue and that case was resolved

and both sides were happy, I said

0:21:150:21:20

its reasonable for the leader to do

what the leader wants to do. If it

0:21:200:21:25

is an outstanding case and both

sides are not happy, that's

0:21:250:21:28

different. I want to make sure.

She

isn't happy. That's the problem? .

0:21:280:21:34

Maybe somebody was misinformed. I

want to say we have to get the

0:21:340:21:39

processes right, cricket and France

parent. That's why there is an

0:21:390:21:42

investigation. We need to, rather

than try and guess what's been said,

0:21:420:21:46

we need to have the investigation.

At the end of the investigation you

0:21:460:21:49

can call me back on the show and I

can Fawke factually about what's

0:21:490:21:55

happened or not happened.

The woman

concerned said exactly what she says

0:21:550:21:59

happened all over the media for days

and days now. We know what the Chief

0:21:590:22:03

Whip said. She said that publicly

for days and days. You can't say

0:22:030:22:08

this is something we'll have to

investigate in due course?

It has to

0:22:080:22:13

be. If the Chief Whip has been told

something and now something

0:22:130:22:21

different, that has to be

investigated, exactly what was said

0:22:210:22:26

at what time.

Let's turn to another

issue.

Because of the information,

0:22:260:22:31

that's why Kelvin's now been

suspended. It is important to talk

0:22:310:22:35

about policy and process rather than

get into individual cases.

Like

0:22:350:22:38

Kelvin. Let me ask you about Bex

Bailey. You be on behalf of the

0:22:380:22:46

Labour Party apollingologyise to her

for what happened?

Absolutely. Bex

0:22:460:22:52

Bailey has gone through a traumatic

experience. What has happened to her

0:22:520:22:55

and the fact she felt she was unable

to get anyone to listen to her...

At

0:22:550:23:00

the time she was told not to pursue

this by the Labour Party.

So, this

0:23:000:23:04

is why, Andrew, there needs to be a

thorough investigation and that is

0:23:040:23:08

why Jeremy Corbyn has called for a

very renowned, established QC to

0:23:080:23:15

investigate this matter urgently and

have a response urgently. I'm really

0:23:150:23:19

sorry what happened to Bex. She has

been extraordinarily brave. With you

0:23:190:23:24

need a process where you don't have

to be brave to come forward, for

0:23:240:23:27

justice to be done. You we should

have a policy in place where women

0:23:270:23:31

don't have to be brave. It just has

to be dealt with.

Dawn, butler,

0:23:310:23:35

thank you for talking to us.

0:23:350:23:37

Coming up later this morning.

0:23:370:23:39

On the Sunday Politics,

Sarah Smith will be talking

0:23:390:23:41

to Shadow Defence Secretary

Nia Griffith

0:23:410:23:43

and the former MP George

Galloway, among others.

0:23:430:23:45

That's the Sunday

Politics at 11 o'clock.

0:23:450:23:46

Sir Billy Connolly,

who was knighted this week

0:23:460:23:48

by the Duke of Cambridge,

once said, very wisely,

0:23:480:23:50

that there was no such

thing as bad weather,

0:23:500:23:53

only inappropriate clothing.

0:23:530:23:55

That is, I suspect,

our text for the day.

0:23:550:23:57

Over to Matt Taylor

in the weather studio.

0:23:570:24:01

Over to Matt Taylor

in the weather studio.

0:24:010:24:03

I couldn't agree more. Today,

clothing-wise. Warm jackets for all

0:24:030:24:07

weather. We've the sunshine across

many parts of the country so far

0:24:070:24:11

this morning. Maybe a waterproof

warm jacket for some too. These are

0:24:110:24:15

big shower clouds on the horizon in

Rochdale. There are some fairly

0:24:150:24:20

heavy showers through parts of the

Midland, south-west, in Northern

0:24:200:24:24

Ireland and the north of Scot

ranked. They were wintry over higher

0:24:240:24:27

ground. Showers becoming fewer in

number for many during the

0:24:270:24:31

afternoon. One or two down the east

coast. Chilly in breeze but fine,

0:24:310:24:40

sunny weather to enjoy. Clear skies

tonight for any fireworks displays

0:24:400:24:44

taking place. Most will avoid

showers. A frost will quickly form.

0:24:440:24:50

Temperatures dropping well below

freezing away from the towns and

0:24:500:24:55

centres. An early grown for

commuters toppled. Could be the need

0:24:550:25:00

for the ice scraper out. Dry and

sunny for most. Sunshine lasting

0:25:000:25:04

longer through the Midland and

eastern parts. Quickly clouding over

0:25:040:25:07

Scotland and Northern Ireland. Odd

splash of rain elsewhere also

0:25:070:25:11

spreading into western parts of the

England and Wales. By Tuesday, it is

0:25:110:25:15

the waterproofs which will be

required as rain spreads from west

0:25:150:25:18

to east. Back to youment Appropriate

clothing all round.

0:25:180:25:22

In 1917, the British Foreign

Secretary Arthur Balfour

0:25:220:25:24

wrote a letter announcing

his conversion to the idea

0:25:240:25:27

that the Jewish people should

have a national home in Israel.

0:25:270:25:29

This Balfour Declaration is regarded

as one of the founding documents

0:25:290:25:32

of the State of Israel,

and to celebrate its centenary,

0:25:320:25:35

Israel's Prime Minister,

Benjamin Netanyahu

0:25:350:25:38

has come to London, where he's

been in talks with Theresa May.

0:25:380:25:41

To some, he is the arch defender

of the Jewish people.

0:25:410:25:44

To others, he is a bellicose

hardliner dedicated to expanding the

0:25:440:25:47

very settlements seen by Palestinian

Arabs as the obstacle to peace.

0:25:470:25:50

He joins me now.

0:25:500:25:56

Welcome Prime Minister,

The good

part was shorter than the bad part.

0:25:560:25:59

Let me turn to the bad part. The

second bit of the Balfour

0:25:590:26:03

declaration. Nothing shall be done

which prejudices the civil and

0:26:030:26:09

religious rights of existing

non-Jewist people in Palestine. Has

0:26:090:26:13

that been held to by your

Government?

They talk about the

0:26:130:26:16

civil and religious rights. Israel's

Arabs citizens are the only Arabs in

0:26:160:26:21

the middle east who enjoy genuine

civic and religious right. Religious

0:26:210:26:26

free Dom is protected in Israel as

nowhere else tragically in the

0:26:260:26:31

middle east. Civil rights, Supreme

Court judge, Arab ministers,

0:26:310:26:35

including in my Government who are

Arabs, dues and members of the

0:26:350:26:40

Parliament who are Arabs and so on.

I would like to see more involvement

0:26:400:26:44

from the Arabs in civil life.

In

Israel and occupied territories,

0:26:440:26:49

there are pretty gross human rights

breaches. Whether it is a child

0:26:490:26:52

impressed on by military court or

shot unjustifiably or a house

0:26:520:26:59

demolished because lack of a permit,

few Palestinians have escaped

0:26:590:27:03

serious rights abuses during the

50-year occupation. Again, Amnesty

0:27:030:27:08

International say much the same.

Israeli forces unlawfully killed

0:27:080:27:15

Palestine people, including children

and detained thousands of

0:27:150:27:18

Palestinians who opposed Israel's

continuing military occupation

0:27:180:27:21

holding hundreds in administrative

detention, torture and other ill

0:27:210:27:27

treatment of detainees remained

rife. That is not in the spirit of

0:27:270:27:30

the Balfour declaration.

I does by

the the arguments about torture and

0:27:300:27:36

the statement here. No democracy has

been threatened like Israel with

0:27:360:27:41

enemies that seek our destruction

and fired thousands of missiles on

0:27:410:27:44

us. Just imagine thousands and

thousands of missiles on London. You

0:27:440:27:48

don't have to imagine it. You've had

it. Look at what was done in

0:27:480:27:52

retribution. We haven't done that.

We act in moral ways. Our army.

0:27:520:27:58

There's no more more alarmy in the

world that's maligned. The battle of

0:27:580:28:04

Israel, the battle I'm involved

with, is to dispel thee lice. I have

0:28:040:28:09

no compunction in doing so. Israel

stands out as a beacon of democracy

0:28:090:28:14

and self-restraint in a sea of

troubles in the wanton, violent

0:28:140:28:19

attacks which are meant to destroy

us. That should serve as an ample to

0:28:190:28:23

others around us. There are others

in the region who do not do this.

If

0:28:230:28:27

there is one thing that upsets

supporters of the Israel, including

0:28:270:28:32

many Jewish leaders in country, is

the push of settlements. Your own

0:28:320:28:36

defence minister said the rate of

sitlements from areas ask faster

0:28:360:28:42

than at any time since 2009. This is

the one thing that makes supporters

0:28:420:28:48

of Israel Des pair, including in

this Government?

I think the

0:28:480:28:52

settlements are an issue. They are

not the

0:28:520:28:54

settlements are an issue. They are

not the issue. . The issue is the

0:28:540:29:01

100-year-old persistent refusal of

the Palestinian leadership to

0:29:010:29:07

recognise the state and Jewish

boundary. I do take issue with one

0:29:070:29:13

other thing since I am here. I think

the idea that dues cannot live in

0:29:130:29:20

Judea is crazy.

At the moment, this

is Palestinian territory. You are

0:29:200:29:23

putting...

It is disputed territory.

The UN says it is a flag rant breach

0:29:230:29:34

of the law.

People I think the facts

are different. I think the central

0:29:340:29:45

fact is this. Settlements is a side

issue. Because...

Not to the

0:29:450:29:52

Palestinians, it's not.

I think it

is too. When we removed all the

0:29:520:29:57

settlements from Gazza and did what

they say, go back to the 67 lines,

0:29:570:30:03

take away the settlements, Gazza

didn't become peaceful. They

0:30:030:30:08

launched thousands of rockets from

Gazza we vacated from Israel. Not

0:30:080:30:14

against Tel Aviv, jeer us 'em. Every

part of Israel. I asked them why

0:30:140:30:20

they are doing this rhetorically. Is

it to liberate the West Bank. They

0:30:200:30:25

said, that too, no, we want to

liberate Palestine. Tel Aviv.

You're

0:30:250:30:32

in a war with ham mass. They've done

a deal with Fatah. Do you

0:30:320:30:37

distinguish between Fatah and Hamas

in this regard?

Yes, I do. Hamas

0:30:370:30:42

takes it's goal of destroying Israel

and translates it into act of

0:30:420:30:45

terror. That is the not case with

the Palestinian Authority. One would

0:30:450:30:50

hope that Hamas would move to that

position and not have the

0:30:500:30:55

Palestinian Authority move to Hamas.

I would say this, unity for peace is

0:30:550:30:59

good. Unity for the destruction of

Israel is bad. And that's what we're

0:30:590:31:04

looking at.

0:31:040:31:11

What is also clear is that your

policy for Gaza is not working, the

0:31:110:31:15

policy of having a kind of cordon

around Gaza, King of blockade, that

0:31:150:31:22

has actually increased the power of

Hamas in Gaza, and is raising calls

0:31:220:31:28

about the human rights situation

inside Gaza. This policy is simply

0:31:280:31:31

not working.

Hamas is 30,000 armed

thugs, where they periodically

0:31:310:31:41

execute people in -- Palestinians

and Gazans. An AK-47 bullet back of

0:31:410:31:51

the neck for anyone who tried to

relieve the people of Gaza from

0:31:510:31:56

this. This is what I have done.

You

have shot a lot of people there as

0:31:560:32:00

well.

I have opened up the border

crossings, to enable 1000 trucks a

0:32:000:32:10

day of goods, food, medicine,

anything you want, unlimited

0:32:100:32:15

supplies coming into Gaza, as long

as they are not weapons. And in fact

0:32:150:32:21

it is Israel right now, if I had to

say it is one country, Israel, more

0:32:210:32:25

than any other actually taking care

of the population of Gaza, because

0:32:250:32:28

we have no quarrel with the

population. We do have a quarrel

0:32:280:32:32

with those who have hijacked them

and use the territory of Gaza to

0:32:320:32:36

launch a war against Israel. One day

I hope we will be rid of Hamas and

0:32:360:32:40

they will disarm, and then we can

have a glorious future.

Let's look

0:32:400:32:46

at the Palestinian state very

vividly, you have said actually,

0:32:460:32:51

what we can't have is an armed

hostile anti-keeper-mac state

0:32:510:32:57

sitting on our border for ever --

and the Israeli state sitting on our

0:32:570:33:01

border forever. You used the term,

Palestinian entity. Are you

0:33:010:33:05

suggesting what Palestinians might

get is, as it were, the status of a

0:33:050:33:10

kind of self-governing territory

inside a greater Israel.

I think

0:33:100:33:13

they should have all the powers to

govern themselves and none of the

0:33:130:33:17

powers to threaten us, which means

it has to be...

Following -- falling

0:33:170:33:27

short of fools take, in other words.

The Middle East is full of stories

0:33:270:33:30

of collapsing states and so on, so

that means if we withdraw our armed

0:33:300:33:34

security control from an area, what

happened invariably is militant

0:33:340:33:38

Islam comes in, whether Daesh, Isis,

Hamas, backed by Iran, and either

0:33:380:33:45

one is horrible, not only for us but

also for the Palestinians or the

0:33:450:33:49

Lebanese. You just heard the Prime

Minister of Lebanon on resigning and

0:33:490:33:53

he said basically, Hezbollah took

over, which means a run took over,

0:33:530:34:00

and I think this is a wake-up call

for everyone. It says what the

0:34:000:34:04

Middle East is really experiencing

-- which means Iran to cover. I

0:34:040:34:10

think when Israelis and Arabs, and

it is all the Arabs and the

0:34:100:34:15

Israelis, agree on one thing, people

should pay attention. We should stop

0:34:150:34:19

this Iranian takeover, for your

interest as well.

I want to come to

0:34:190:34:26

run directly in a moment, but if you

talk to almost any British MP, they

0:34:260:34:32

say two state solution, two state

solution, but the way you are

0:34:320:34:35

talking it sounds as if I2-mac state

solution is more or less over and we

0:34:350:34:38

are moving to a different one, one

state solution. -- it sounds as if a

0:34:380:34:46

two state solution is more or less

over.

I am unabashed about saying

0:34:460:34:48

that I do not want this two state

solution to be over but we don't

0:34:480:34:54

want something to threaten our

lives. What is the other state,

0:34:540:34:58

Costa Rica or North Korea? Another

many Iran, Luxembourg? Nobody asks

0:34:580:35:03

that. When you say two states, if it

is not demilitarised and doesn't

0:35:030:35:09

recognise the state of Israel which

the Palestinians still refuse to do,

0:35:090:35:12

it merely becomes a platform for

continuing the war against the one

0:35:120:35:16

Jewish state, so I think you have to

be more specific and say, no, what

0:35:160:35:20

we want is the recognition, finally,

100 years after the Balfour

0:35:200:35:26

Declaration, finally recognise the

Jewish state, expletive deleted, but

0:35:260:35:32

recognise it, and make sure that

Palestinians do not have the weapons

0:35:320:35:37

to destroy it.

You have been talking

about all of this with Donald Trump,

0:35:370:35:40

a man with a slightly dodgy

reputation in this country, but you

0:35:400:35:43

have just seen him up close and

personal. What do you make of him?

0:35:430:35:48

Firstly I think he has leadership

qualities, and I think he sees in

0:35:480:35:52

the Middle East something different.

There are some people who saw Iran

0:35:520:35:58

as the solution for the problems in

the Middle East.

Lake Barack Obama,

0:35:580:36:02

you mean?

By the way I had a very

good relationship with Barack Obama,

0:36:020:36:07

and we did agree on things, and we

signed our memorandum of

0:36:070:36:12

understanding, 10-year security

package, and I welcome and respect

0:36:120:36:14

that, but I disagreed with him on

Iran because, yes, I think he saw

0:36:140:36:19

Iran as a solution in many ways, and

Donald Trump sees Iran is the

0:36:190:36:23

problem, but it is not Donald Trump

this is Iran is the problem. We do

0:36:230:36:27

and the Arab states do. And Hariri

who just resigned does as well, and

0:36:270:36:35

he's right.

And between Israel and

many of the Sunni states, against

0:36:350:36:42

Iran. It is almost the way you speak

about them as if you see them as one

0:36:420:36:46

of those great empires, moving from

Asia right away to the

0:36:460:36:49

Mediterranean, and you have said

very clearly, putting aside the

0:36:490:36:52

nuclear issue, we must them doing

that. We will not let them get to

0:36:520:36:56

the Mediterranean, we will not let

them an American Shi'ite empire

0:36:560:37:04

spreading right the way to the

shores of the Mediterranean. How

0:37:040:37:06

will you do that?

Iran will Putin

calls for destruction, and something

0:37:060:37:13

even in your experience, -- will put

in calls. Iran openly says, we are

0:37:130:37:19

out to destroy what they call us,

the small states come on the way to

0:37:190:37:26

the big states, the United States...

You are a middle state.

No offence

0:37:260:37:30

taken.

This is what Iran wants to

do. It is seeking to colonise Syria

0:37:300:37:40

for that purpose, and that is to

Lebanon-ise Syria and that is what

0:37:400:37:49

in Lebanon on President Hariri

basically resigned over, probably

0:37:490:37:52

killed his father, and could have

killed him...

And for so-called Isis

0:37:520:37:58

and the Islamic State...

As they

move out, Iran moves in, but they

0:37:580:38:02

want to bring in their air force,

they want to bring in Shi'ite and

0:38:020:38:13

divisions, submarines and military

vessels, right into the

0:38:130:38:16

Mediterranean right next to Israel,

so we will not let that happen and

0:38:160:38:19

we will resist.

You would go to war

to stop that happening?

0:38:190:38:25

The more we are prepared to stop it

the less likely it is we will have

0:38:250:38:29

to resort to much greater things.

There is a principle I very much at

0:38:290:38:33

YouTube, nip bad things at the bud

-- I very much it adhere to.

But we

0:38:330:38:45

have it rocket attacks, Lebanon,

things moving in the Horn of Africa,

0:38:450:38:48

and you can see it as a big

situation. At this stage are we

0:38:480:38:52

drifting or moving towards a major

war in the region between Iran and

0:38:520:38:55

her allies and proxies on the one

side, and Israel and the Sunni

0:38:550:39:01

states on the other?

There is

definitely a conflict, and you're

0:39:010:39:05

right, and alignment in the region,

but I think it is the battle between

0:39:050:39:10

medievalism and modernity. Israel

stands for modernity, and these

0:39:100:39:15

forces have to resist the onslaught

of this militant Islamism. Which

0:39:150:39:23

uses rockets, terrorism, suicide

bombers and so on, and the sparks of

0:39:230:39:27

that firmament you see on the

streets of London. It medievalism

0:39:270:39:35

wins they are, you lose here, so we

are really on the front line of this

0:39:350:39:39

great battle for the future of the

world, not really the future of the

0:39:390:39:42

Middle East, but the world.

And you

think Donald Trump gets it and is at

0:39:420:39:47

your back?

I think he definitely

understands that Iran is the primary

0:39:470:39:51

problem. It probably accounts for

95% of the problems we experienced

0:39:510:39:55

now in the Middle East, and it is a

good thing that he gets it.

Can I

0:39:550:40:02

ask you about the condition of Jews

in this country, because there are a

0:40:020:40:05

lot of Jewish friends and community

reader mights very worried about

0:40:050:40:09

your Government and they see

particularly the settlement issue

0:40:090:40:10

has made it much harder to defend

Israel in this country. We have

0:40:100:40:15

always had anti-Semitism in Britain

but it has been quiet for a long

0:40:150:40:18

time, and it is back on the rise.

I

wouldn't blame Jews for

0:40:180:40:23

anti-Semitism any more than I would

blame blacks for racial hatred

0:40:230:40:29

towards them or about anti-gay

hatred, because of what they are...

0:40:290:40:34

But distinction between Jews and

policies.

You know what happened,

0:40:340:40:38

Theresa May gave an extraordinary

speech. On the Balfour Centennial,

0:40:380:40:43

and she said," you cannot go and

attack and say that Britain has no

0:40:430:40:49

right to exist because you impose

some of the British Government

0:40:490:40:54

policies. Britain has a right to

exist, Israel has a right to exist.

0:40:540:40:58

You may disagree with this or that

policy but you would never question

0:40:580:41:01

any other country's right to exist

based on this or that disagreement

0:41:010:41:05

with the policy. " But this is

levelled against Israel and Konta

0:41:050:41:09

Michael Vorm.

One of the big

supporters of Palestinian rights in

0:41:090:41:13

this country is the Labour Party

leader Jeremy Corbyn who has said

0:41:130:41:17

previously we shouldn't allow free

access for what he calls Israel's

0:41:170:41:20

terminal politicians to come into

this country. He might very well be

0:41:200:41:25

Britain's Prime Minister before

long. What would that the

0:41:250:41:28

relationships? Should you not pick

up the telephone and taught him?

0:41:280:41:30

First of all the British people

decide who they want to come and be

0:41:300:41:34

Prime Minister, but I hope there

will be a continuity of British

0:41:340:41:40

policy with Israel because there is

something people don't know. That

0:41:400:41:42

cooperation has saved many lives,

many Israeli lives, many many

0:41:420:41:48

British lives, because we have an

intense cooperation between our

0:41:480:41:53

security and intelligence agencies,

and it is protecting Britain and

0:41:530:41:57

protecting Israel, and it is

something I hope will continue in

0:41:570:42:01

the future.

Mr Netanyahu, thanks

very much indeed for talking to us.

0:42:010:42:09

Now, then...

0:42:090:42:11

Murder on the Orient Express is one

of Agatha Christie's finest stories,

0:42:110:42:14

immortalised on screen

more than once.

0:42:140:42:15

A new film version,

directed by Kenneth Branagh,

0:42:150:42:17

who also takes the part

of Poirot, has a classy cast.

0:42:170:42:20

I caught up with two of its stars,

Michelle Pfeiffer and Olivia Colman,

0:42:200:42:23

who gave me a few clues

as to why this mystery train

0:42:230:42:26

has timeless appeal.

0:42:260:42:27

My name is Hercule Poirot,

and I am probably the greatest

0:42:270:42:29

detective in the world.

0:42:290:42:31

I must recommend you remain

in your compartments

0:42:310:42:32

with the doors locked.

0:42:320:42:33

I feel like a prisoner here.

0:42:330:42:35

It is for your own safety.

0:42:350:42:36

This is a hugely enjoyable film.

0:42:360:42:38

You have the great reveal,

which is that thing on

0:42:380:42:40

Kenneth Branagh's face!

0:42:400:42:41

What did you think

when you first saw it?

0:42:410:42:47

I thought, what is that

thing on Kenneth...

0:42:470:42:49

No, I thought, this

is extraordinary.

0:42:490:42:56

And I thought, I don't know how I'm

going to act with this moustache!

0:42:560:42:59

He also never looked more handsome.

0:42:590:43:01

It suits him, doesn't it?

0:43:010:43:03

I think he's quite hot

with the big tash.

0:43:030:43:05

It is like this vast grey marmoset

sitting on his face.

0:43:050:43:11

I can't remember

the exact words now,

0:43:110:43:13

but Agatha Christie

says it's meant to be...

0:43:130:43:15

The most magnificent

moustache in England.

0:43:150:43:16

That's it.

0:43:160:43:17

And it certainly is.

0:43:170:43:18

It has to be big.

0:43:180:43:20

Can I then ask you both about your

characters, about Mrs Hubbard?

0:43:200:43:24

She's a socialitE, she's brittle,

she's on the hunt for husbands.

0:43:240:43:27

Is she the person, do you think,

Agatha Christie might have wanted

0:43:270:43:30

to be herself?

0:43:300:43:32

Oh.

0:43:320:43:35

Well, some have said

that she exemplifies maybe the inner

0:43:350:43:38

loneliness of Agatha Christie.

0:43:380:43:41

Travelling alone was very dangerous

and in some ways scandalous

0:43:410:43:44

for a woman, travelling alone.

0:43:440:43:46

Well, hello.

0:43:460:43:51

Eyes linger any longer,

I'll have to charge you rent.

0:43:510:43:53

I'll pay.

0:43:530:43:59

And Mrs Schmidt sitting

there observing silently

0:43:590:44:00

the whole way through.

0:44:000:44:02

You are Judi Dench's handmaiden

which is quite a role to take on.

0:44:020:44:05

Yes.

0:44:050:44:06

Tell us a little bit about that.

0:44:060:44:08

I think Kenneth Branagh said he cast

you because he wanted somebody who

0:44:080:44:11

could be silent, and

yet you couldn't help

0:44:110:44:13

observing all the time.

0:44:130:44:14

He cast me because he wanted

someone to be silent?

0:44:140:44:16

Yes!

0:44:160:44:17

It's like he never met me at all.

0:44:170:44:19

Apart from bits where

you speak very good German.

0:44:190:44:22

Oh, thanks very much!

0:44:220:44:23

Took an awfully long

time to learn that.

0:44:230:44:25

Not sure a German would say such

nice things, but thank you.

0:44:250:44:30

It was, well, heaven.

0:44:300:44:32

I sat next to Judi Dench

all day holding a dog.

0:44:320:44:34

It was heaven.

0:44:340:44:41

This is all about master-servant

or mistress-servant relationships,

0:44:410:44:43

which Agatha Christie

was fascinated by.

0:44:430:44:44

Who's really in control?

0:44:440:44:45

Is it the servant all along who is

somehow controlling her countess?

0:44:450:44:48

I'd like to say, yes,

but I don't think so.

0:44:480:44:51

I think it is very much

the Countess in this occasion.

0:44:510:44:53

Michelle, for quite a long time -

it's often been said Hollywood

0:44:530:44:56

hasn't been very good at roles

for women over 40.

0:44:560:45:00

And I know Meryl Streep and Jane

Fonda have campaigned on this.

0:45:000:45:03

I wonder if it's now

beginning to change?

0:45:030:45:05

You know, in films, I'm not so sure.

0:45:050:45:07

I feel more in television

there are more and more interesting

0:45:070:45:10

parts for women of all ages.

0:45:100:45:16

And, in film, I'm actually

not convinced so much.

0:45:160:45:18

I think Meryl does all the really

great parts for women over 40.

0:45:180:45:22

That's a kind of rule, isn't it?

0:45:220:45:24

It is a very male-dominated

kind of industry

0:45:240:45:26

going through a terrible crisis,

the Harvey Weinstein business.

0:45:260:45:29

Were you yourself, you've

been a big, big actress

0:45:290:45:31

there for 20 years or so,

did you know about this stuff?

0:45:310:45:34

Did you have any

experiences yourself?

0:45:340:45:36

I never worked with Harvey.

0:45:360:45:37

I've had some experiences.

0:45:370:45:40

I have to say, since this has all

come out, there really hasn't been

0:45:400:45:46

one woman I've talked to

who hasn't had an experience.

0:45:460:45:49

It just goes to show you

how systemic the problem is.

0:45:490:45:53

I'm having conversations with women

I've known my whole life

0:45:530:45:57

and we've never discussed this and

it's coming out.

0:45:570:45:59

You think this is going to change

the atmosphere for younger women

0:45:590:46:02

coming into the industry

0:46:020:46:04

that men are going to

think three or four times?

0:46:040:46:06

I think all the men

are thinking, yeah.

0:46:060:46:08

I think...

0:46:080:46:09

...Should bloody well hope so.

0:46:090:46:11

There's a lot of reflection

going on with men and women.

0:46:110:46:16

I was thinking myself,

thinking back, thinking, well,

0:46:160:46:22

you know, where is that line

between, oh, I got hit on and I was

0:46:220:46:25

in appropriately, you know...

0:46:250:46:27

Is it about power?

0:46:270:46:28

Basically?

0:46:280:46:32

Well, I think when you're

in a position of power and

0:46:320:46:36

you're in a position to intimidate

someone, then it becomes...

0:46:360:46:39

There are cases where there

are young women in their 20s...

0:46:390:46:45

It seems to be women in like,

it's women in their young 20s.

0:46:450:46:48

Who are younger.

0:46:480:46:50

They are purposefully targeted.

0:46:500:46:52

We've been talking about the queen

of crime Agatha Christie.

0:46:520:46:55

Let's turn to the Queen of England.

0:46:550:46:58

You've been announced

as the new Queen in The Crown.

0:46:580:47:01

What happened when you heard

about the The Crown?

0:47:010:47:03

You presumably got a phone call

saying you got the gig.

0:47:030:47:06

I was on speaker phone

in the car with my husband.

0:47:060:47:08

We'd recently finished

watching The Crown.

0:47:080:47:10

My agent said, "Would

you go and meet -

0:47:100:47:14

It's a secret," and

she was trying to be subtle.

0:47:140:47:17

"...About a tiara,"

and I said, "The Crown,

0:47:170:47:19

The Crown, oh, my God, yeah!"

0:47:190:47:22

My husband was silently

clapping in the background.

0:47:220:47:24

So we were quite excited.

0:47:240:47:25

I was very excited.

0:47:250:47:26

I'm excited.

0:47:260:47:27

Thanks.

0:47:270:47:28

Thank you both very much.

0:47:280:47:30

Thank you.

0:47:300:47:31

Thank you.

0:47:310:47:33

It's been a rotten week

for the Government.

0:47:330:47:35

And, generally, what happens

at the end of a rotten week

0:47:350:47:38

for the government is that

Sir Michael Fallon appears

0:47:380:47:40

on programmes like this to tell us

how well Theresa May is doing.

0:47:400:47:43

Now, this weekend, for reasons

that I hope are obvious,

0:47:430:47:46

he is unavailable.

0:47:460:47:47

But I am joined by the Home

Secretary Amber Rudd -

0:47:470:47:50

which shows perhaps how important

she has become to the Prime Minister

0:47:500:47:53

and why she is being tipped

for even higher things.

0:47:530:47:57

Can I make a parallel. I've been

around for a long time. This feels a

0:47:570:48:01

little bit like John Major's

Government after the back to basics

0:48:010:48:06

speech when Kay after day after day

there was yet another story and

0:48:060:48:10

another and another. It was drip,

drip, drip. It she hadded and

0:48:100:48:14

exhausted that Government. The same

thing's happening to you. Can I put

0:48:140:48:18

it to you this is not tittle tattle,

it is politically serious? ?

Test

0:48:180:48:24

serious. This is about cross-party

change. It is the Labour Party, the

0:48:240:48:29

whole of Westminster. What we're see

something a wholesale change taking

0:48:290:48:33

place. We've seen the abuse of power

in particular. And the widespread

0:48:330:48:38

cultural change that needs to take

place as Wes recognise that. We will

0:48:380:48:42

be recognising that. We are going to

be making changes. It has to stop.

0:48:420:48:48

There's been a really big focus this

morning in particular on the role of

0:48:480:48:52

the whip's office. You heard Anna

Soubry saying they must have known

0:48:520:48:57

much more. They mousse come to the

Prime Minister and tell them

0:48:570:49:00

everything they know and she must

demand that and you as Home

0:49:000:49:02

Secretary. Is that happening? Will

it happen?

The Prime Minister

0:49:020:49:09

tomorrow will work across party with

the party lead tors make sure a

0:49:090:49:13

system's put in place.

I'm focusing

on your party and the role of

0:49:130:49:17

Conservative whips in all of this.

I'm just as concerned as Home

0:49:170:49:21

Secretary for all women in

Parliament. I'm happy to answer your

0:49:210:49:24

question on the Conservative Party

as well. I was a whip myself. I

0:49:240:49:28

don't recognise some of those more

lurid stories told about the sort of

0:49:280:49:32

things whips new and did.

The black

book?

I just don't recognise it. I

0:49:320:49:37

tell it as it is. Our aim was to

make sure we got Government business

0:49:370:49:41

through as whip. We try to

accommodate people's lives so they

0:49:410:49:45

were there to vote. That sort of

thing. I don't recognise the other

0:49:450:49:48

stuff.

I understand it is a black

and white picture and more extreme

0:49:480:49:52

than in reality. However, there was

a black book or spreadsheet of miss

0:49:520:49:59

demean ours.

So you say. I spent a

year in there and there wasn't one.

0:49:590:50:05

I think Parliament has changed a

lot. No longer have midnight

0:50:050:50:09

sittings. Has become more

family-friendly. But it has to do

0:50:090:50:13

more.

Tim Fortescue said, who was a

Tory whip, it was a TV programme

0:50:130:50:18

looking at the whip's office. Anyone

in trouble would come to the whips.

0:50:180:50:24

They'd say, I was in a jam. It might

be debt. A scandal involving small

0:50:240:50:29

boys. We'd do everything we can to

help we'd score browny points. If he

0:50:290:50:35

can get a chap out of trouble, he'll

do what we ask for ever more. That

0:50:350:50:40

is precisely the problem.

That is

disgraceful, shocking. When was

0:50:400:50:45

that?

That was in the 170s.

That

isn't the Parliament I know. The

0:50:450:50:50

whip's office where I work. That was

in the past. I'm not saying there

0:50:500:50:54

isn't a lot of change to take place,

there is. I want to work in a place

0:50:540:51:00

where there is respect.

You say it

is in the past. Let me read you what

0:51:000:51:05

Katie Perrier said. Recently part of

the Government and worked in Downing

0:51:050:51:08

Street a few months ago. She says

this information is held by the

0:51:080:51:11

whips. They use to to make sure MPs

within the party know exactly what

0:51:110:51:18

they've been up to and that brave

your is not acceptable or used

0:51:180:51:22

against him. You vote a certain way

or we'll tell your wife what you've

0:51:220:51:25

been up to. Information's being held

for partisan reasons to get

0:51:250:51:31

legislation through rather than

being passed to the proper

0:51:310:51:33

authorities, including the police.

I

just don't agree with you. I spent a

0:51:330:51:39

year in the whips office under

George Young. There was no black

0:51:390:51:43

book or that influence going on. It

was much more about getting

0:51:430:51:47

Government business through. That's

the whip's office. I recognise there

0:51:470:51:50

is a really important change that

needs to take place in Westminster.

0:51:500:51:54

It is not just Westminster. It is

other workplaces as well. We heard

0:51:540:51:58

mish eel fiver saying what was going

on in that industry. This is an

0:51:580:52:03

international, cross-business change

that needs to take place to support

0:52:030:52:05

particularly young women in work.

To

be absolutely clear, are you saying

0:52:050:52:10

the whips didn't know anything at

all about Sir Michael Fallon in the

0:52:100:52:14

past? There are suggestions they

did?

There is a lot of suggestion in

0:52:140:52:17

the papers. I can't guess about what

might have known what rumour or

0:52:170:52:22

truth. I am saying how I operated as

a whip in the whip's office when I

0:52:220:52:27

was there.

Can you at least say

whatever they do know they must take

0:52:270:52:31

to the Prime Minister. It must be on

the table between you, the Prime

0:52:310:52:36

Minister and the whips so the

information's out there before it

0:52:360:52:39

turns up in the newspaper?

Absolutely. There should be total

0:52:390:52:43

candour. If they are rumours,

allegations, we need to find out

0:52:430:52:47

what's going on and deal with them

in a transparent way so they don't

0:52:470:52:51

happen again.

This has been driven

all the way through by newspaper

0:52:510:52:57

story, splash after splash after

dirty splash. Are there more

0:52:570:53:00

splashes to come?

I don't know. Some

of these have surprised me. We

0:53:000:53:05

should make the distinction between

some very serious allegations and

0:53:050:53:08

some which is tittle tattle. We have

to be careful about the distinctions

0:53:080:53:12

here.

Let's look at the Damian Green

tittle tattle this morning in the

0:53:120:53:16

papers today. We have a former, very

senior policeman alleging something

0:53:160:53:23

about the efwektively Deputy Prime

Minister. Is this the proper way for

0:53:230:53:27

the police to behave?

That is a

reasonable question. The Cabinet

0:53:270:53:31

Office will look at this tomorrow

along with the wider inquiry about

0:53:310:53:35

Damian. We shouldn't rush to allege

anything until that inquiry's has

0:53:350:53:39

taken place.

What about the way he's

treated the woman who madal gazes

0:53:390:53:45

against him. The lawyers have been

called in. It seems a very heavy and

0:53:450:53:49

scary response. If you are another

young whom who feels they've been

0:53:490:53:53

mistreated that kind of thing will

put you off telling anybody.

I think

0:53:530:53:57

men and women who have been subject

to any sort of abuse of power should

0:53:570:54:01

have the confidence to come forward.

I also think people who are, This is

0:54:010:54:06

they've been wrongly accused should

absolutely be able to come out and

0:54:060:54:09

say, this is not true. Damian's made

some very strong statements on that

0:54:090:54:13

side.

He certainly has. Let's talk

about the politics of all of this.

0:54:130:54:22

Is a crucial anything in Theresa

May's Cabinet. Are you close now to

0:54:220:54:26

a complete collapse. If he goes, it

seems as if the whole centre of

0:54:260:54:31

Government's imploded.

Abs will

thely not. It is something that will

0:54:310:54:35

take place in terms of clearing out

Westminster of that sort of behave

0:54:350:54:38

your. Westminster, afterwards,

including the Government, will be

0:54:380:54:42

better for it. When we are confident

that men and women can work in a

0:54:420:54:47

respectful environment and people

who have been on the receiving end

0:54:470:54:49

of abuse of power can come forward,

that will be a positive thing. I

0:54:490:54:53

would like to sea, the Government's

committed to delivering on its

0:54:530:54:56

agenda. I know there is a lot of

interest in this. It is right there

0:54:560:55:00

is and we change it. We are doing

other things do.

He Rennes other

0:55:000:55:04

things and an agenda. You've an

announcement today about child

0:55:040:55:09

pornography, about the treatment of

much younger women than the ones we

0:55:090:55:13

are talking about?

I'm going to

Washington this week to make sure we

0:55:130:55:17

step up our fight against child

sexual exploitation. We've seen the

0:55:170:55:22

real growth of child sexual

exploitation internationally. We

0:55:220:55:25

need to work with the Americans to

take action against it. There's much

0:55:250:55:30

more that the internet companies can

do. They do quite a lot already. But

0:55:300:55:35

the growth has been exponential. We

need to make sure they put their

0:55:350:55:39

technological know how into

addressing it. Particularly working

0:55:390:55:42

with smaller platforms where

children go to game online, to meet

0:55:420:55:46

each other. There are peed times

working there. We need to make sure

0:55:460:55:50

the internet companies work with us

in partnership to change this.

Let

0:55:500:55:53

me return, if you don't mind, to

Westminster politics. Can you

0:55:530:55:57

understand why there is so much

anger directed against Mr Williamson

0:55:570:56:03

who's taken over as Defence

Secretary?

He's the Prime Minister's

0:56:030:56:06

choice. I'm sure he'll do a very

good job.

Gavin Williamson is a real

0:56:060:56:11

slime ball with his own leadership

team in place. Theresa May has gone

0:56:110:56:15

mad. It's a real end of days stuff

says the huffing tonne post quoting

0:56:150:56:21

somebody else. Someone else she's so

weak she's let Williamson appoint

0:56:210:56:25

himself. Somebody else, straight

from the school of party

0:56:250:56:30

managementment. It is like House Of

Cards the original version. I'm sure

0:56:300:56:37

he'll go forward and be a great

Defence Secretary. The idea of the

0:56:370:56:43

Chief Whip appearing in a key

position in the Cabinet is straight

0:56:430:56:48

out of House Of Cards?

The Prime

Minister can appoint her own

0:56:480:56:52

Cabinet.

You can say Andrew, I

couldn't possibly comment.

I didn't

0:56:520:56:57

fall into that one particularly.

Gavin will be a great Defence

0:56:570:57:00

Secretary, part of the team.

He's

the centre of the story. Can I ask

0:57:000:57:06

you about Mr Garnier, who has been

investigated under the Ministerial

0:57:060:57:10

Code of Conduct. But the allegations

against him go seven years before he

0:57:100:57:14

was a minister. A lot of people

watching, is the ministerial #k0eed

0:57:140:57:21

of conduct endlessly retrospective,

the way Amber Rudd or anyone else

0:57:210:57:27

behaved when they were 17. It seems

bonkers?

All of these allegations

0:57:270:57:32

will be properly investigated so

there is no place for these

0:57:320:57:35

allegations to hide so everybody can

kneel confident when they come

0:57:350:57:39

forward, and she should if they have

something to say, it is fairly dealt

0:57:390:57:44

with.

Do you think we'll see another

Sunday like this?

I certainly hope

0:57:440:57:48

not. I hope we'll see more evidence

of what the Government's doing to

0:57:480:57:53

deliver on its agenda. In my case,

making the online world safer. In

0:57:530:57:58

Jeremy Hunt's case, making the NHS

better. All the things that matter

0:57:580:58:02

to Government, I hope we can see

more of that.

0:58:020:58:05

Now a look at what's coming up

straight after this programme:

0:58:050:58:08

On Sunday Morning Live,

the sexual harassment scandal.

0:58:080:58:10

Is it time to put

the house in order

0:58:100:58:12

or is it becoming a witch-hunt?

0:58:120:58:13

James Bond star Naomi Harris

tells us about a new scheme

0:58:130:58:16

to help the homeless.

0:58:160:58:17

And poet Benjamin Zephaniah reveals

why studying tai chi in China

0:58:170:58:20

has changed his attitude to life.

0:58:200:58:21

Join us at 10.00am.

0:58:210:58:22

That's all for this week.

0:58:230:58:24

Next week, we have a special

0:58:240:58:25

extended Remembrance Sunday

programme.

0:58:250:58:27

Among my guests four

really big bosses -

0:58:270:58:30

the engineering tycoon

Sir James Dyson,

0:58:300:58:32

the Chief of the Defence Staff,

plus the Head of the National Trust

0:58:320:58:35

and the Mayor of London.

0:58:350:58:37

Until then, goodbye.

0:58:370:58:41

Interviews with key newsmakers and cultural figures. Andrew's guests include Israeli prime minister Benjamin Netanyahu, home secretary Amber Rudd MP, shadow secretary for women and equalities Dawn Butler MP, Olivia Colman and Michelle Pfeiffer. The newspapers are reviewed by Labour MP Kate Hoey, Conservative MP Anna Soubry and deputy political editor of The Times Sam Coates.