12/11/2017 The Andrew Marr Show

Good morning.

Remembrance Sunday.

A day for many of us to reflect

on relatives killed in war,

but also a day, perhaps,

to look around us at the somewhat

scary seeming world we're living in,

and to reflect over many decades

past, the outlook for Britain

was much, much more perilous.

In an extended and busy programme

this week, I'm joined

by the Environment Secretary,

Michael Gove, by the Chief

of the Defence Staff,

Air Marshal Sir Stuart Peach,

and by the Mayor of London,

Labour's Sadiq Khan.

But I've been out and about as well,

talking to that great inventor

and engineering tycoon,

Sir James Dyson - also very

optimistic about life after Brexit.

And Tim Parker, the man

leading the National Trust,

an organisation with 5 million

members - more than all

the political parties put together -

shows me round Stanley Spencer's

stunning Memorial

Chapel in Hampshire.

I'll also be talking

to Annette Bening about her

portrayal of a Hollywood legend,

alongside Billy Elliot

star Jamie Bell.

Has anyone ever told you you look

like Lauren Bacall?

Yeah, Humphrey

Bogart.

And on this Remembrance Sunday,

we'll have music from baritone

Duncan Rock performing one

of Housman's greatest

reflections on lost youth.

And reviewing the news this week,

Guardian columnist Gaby Hinsliff,

the man whose scoop brought down

Priti Patel, the BBC's diplomatic

correspondent, James Landale,

and Camilla Tominey,

poltical editor of

the Sunday Express.

All that and more coming up soon.

First, over to the newsroom

and Chris Mason.

Thank you. Good morning.

A new watchdog to protect

the environment after Britain leaves

the European Union is being planned

by the Government.

The Environment Secretary,

Michael Gove, has promised

an organisation with real bite

amid concerns that existing rules

could be watered down

when Brexit takes place.

The announcement comes

as the Commons prepares

for another vote on the EU

Withdrawal Bill this week.

The Labour leader, Jeremy Corbyn,

has demanded the Foreign Secretary,

Boris Johnson, be sacked

after undermining our country

and putting our citizens at risk.

It comes after what Mr Johnson

called his "deeply regrettable

error" in the case of

Nazanin Zaghari-Ratcliffe -

the woman jailed in Iran.

Today, her husband will meet him,

following comments he made

which gave the false impression

she'd been teaching

journalism in Iran.

The Spanish Prime Minister,

Mariano Rajoy, will make his first

visit to Catalonia since he imposed

direct rule two weeks ago

after the regional government

unilaterally declared independence.

He'll be campaigning

for his Popular Party

in next month's regional elections.

Yesterday, an estimated

750,000 Catalans

supported a rally in Barcelona,

demanding the release

of pro-independence leaders detained

by the Spanish courts.

A report suggests some seriously

ill children in England

are being denied access to out

of hours palliative care.

Families say they are

being forced to go to A&E

overnight and at weekends.

The research - carried

out by the charity,

Together for Short Lives -

found that only two-thirds

of clinical commissioning groups

provide an out of hours service.

Services will be held across the UK

to remember Britain's war dead.

A two-minute silence will be

observed at 11 o'clock.

For the first time, the Queen

will watch the national

commemorations from a balcony

near the Cenotaph,

while Prince Charles will lay

a wreath on her behalf.

That's all from me.

The next news on BBC

One is at 1.30pm.

Back to you, Andrew.

Thank you, Chris.

Perhaps no great surprise, sat

Boris. Sunday Times, 40 MPs say

Theresa May must go. You need 48

Tory MPs to sign the letter to

trigger a leadership challenge, but

nonetheless, that is quite a lot.

The Sunday Telegraph, Michael Gove,

we will be talking much more about

that later. The Sunday Express,

another take on the same sort of

story, the rebirth of fishing ports.

Taking back control of the Seas,

mainly for the communities around

the coasts which have had a hard

time. Boris and Michael Gove plot to

hijack Number 10. We will find out

more later. Let us start, James,

with Boris Johnson. You have spent a

lot of time tracking him, not a

great morning, not surprising Jeremy

Corbyn wants him to go.

It is not

surprising but what puzzles me is

why it has taken Labour so long to

targeting politically Boris Johnson.

The latest case it has been pegged

on, the case of Nazanin

Zaghari-Ratcliffe. And the Foreign

Secretary's mistaken claims he made

in evidence to a Parliamentary

committee last week but somehow she

was training journalists when her

family had made it clear she was in

Iran on holiday. The Sunday

Telegraph is also reporting they

think Boris Johnson might formally

correct what he said to the

committee to try to correct it. Yes,

there is a political row around this

case, but the future of Nazanin

Zaghari-Ratcliffe is not going to be

determined by words given to a

parliamentary committee, there are

an awful lot of huge internal

political...

Can I ask you about the

distinction between the Iranian

government and Boris Johnson said he

has spoken to his opposite number

and the judiciary and state media?

Totally separate. Boris Johnson has

spoken to the Foreign Minister and

he has said, I will make my views

known to the judiciary. He has also

said in his words, what Boris

Johnson said has had no impact on

this case. The point is, he is only

one player in this game. The

revolutionaries guard judiciary have

their own agenda and it is the

biggest picture.

The political

scandals come and go, how serious is

this?

I think it is serious because

there are such direct human

consequences for a woman who was

sitting in prison separated from her

childhood was growing up without her

and it brings it home to people who

are not normally interested in to

and fro at Westminster. If Boris had

made one mistake in a career of

playing by the rules, it would be

manageable. But it feels like it

adds to something we already know

which is the is a bit careless, bit

slapdash, does not do the homework.

Do you want this person as your

Foreign Secretary?

He has not done

that much to correct it. He could

have said, I missed -- I misspoke.

He has not been as explicit. Your

rival paper, you have very

generously started with it. Boris

and Michael Gove, arm in arm, as

allies.

You will be asking him about

that. It is not just in the Mail on

Sunday, this is whether he and Boris

are teaming up in what they describe

as a hard Brexit cell, as if somehow

they will get together and start

water boarding remainers on the

Cabinet. They have written to the

Prime Minister urging her to take a

hard Brexit stance. The Mail on

Sunday does not seem to like this.

It says, this is absolute arrogance,

why are they putting the Prime

Minister under this pressure? Some

sort of axis of evil. It could be

described as Cabinet democracy. Two

people describing their own view on

the negotiations.

The team to one

side the headlines, this is

interesting to the extent it says

there are parts of government not

preparing properly -- put to one

side.

Yes, they want to reaffirm

this notion we are preparing for a

no deal. The only way it will work

is to threaten to leave. That is

something that has been argued

heavily. It is of interest and again

perhaps you want to ask Mr Gove

later, the notion of Boris and

Michael Gove reuniting, we all

remember the treachery that occurred

when Michael Gove stood the

leadership. They appear to have

buried the hatchet. Quite a

formidable duo. That is what people

will be looking at. Their supremacy

in the Cabinet at a time when

Theresa May is at her most

vulnerable.

Very interesting. The

Sunday Telegraph, the other Gove

story, plan for a green Brexit

revolution.

Man of the moment,. A

key criticism of Brexit, it seems to

be somehow aligned with climate

change denial and this notion that

as soon as we leave we will be

dispensing with all of the good

things the EU have done with

environmentalism. Gove is saying,

certainly not. The EU commissioner's

role as the watchdog is going to be

taken away from Britain. He wants to

set up an independent body to

oversee the fact that with the EU

withdrawal bill, we will be

absorbing back into our legislation

and the EU initiatives that have

been good for the environment, but

on top of that, he wants this

oversight body making sure the

Government are doing things right

and that will appeal to the left. We

have done a story about Michael

Gove's increased leadership

challenge.

Suddenly a darling of the

left! On the Sunday morning, as

Prime Minister, you get lots of

helpful advice in the newspapers. A

piece there by the man who used to

advise David Cameron.

His piece of

helpful advice is that if Theresa

May wants to get herself out of this

hole, she has to get out of the

Number 10 bunker and embrace the

chaotic word, she should stop

cowering inside Number 10 -- the

chaotic world. He says she should

talk to people directly and tell

them that Brexit will cost a lot of

money and various other what he

describes as being a realist among

the dreamers, various other hard

truths about the downsides, it will

take longer, we need a transition

period, we might not get every trade

deal instantly. Reading it, you

think, for another Prime Minister,

that could work, appealing over the

heads of your Cabinet to the voters,

still 40% in the polls or whatever.

You feel Theresa May's natural

strength is not people skills. If

she could do that, she would not be

in the problems she is.

As the

slightly weak position, making

yourself unpopular, not

necessarily...

In for a penny, in

for a pound.

Some say, MPs need to

think about what the Tory party will

be in five years. Most so, we just

want basic competence, basic sense

of, what is the one job for

government at the moment? Brexit.

One thing about that piece, I have

never seen a water ship metaphor

stretched... Stormy Waters, sinking

ship, walk the plank, every cliche.

Masterful.

Another story, very

important, the 40 MPs saying Theresa

May must go, the Sunday Times front

page.

40 MPs is not 48, the

threshold needed to trigger a

leadership contest, but it is

uncomfortably close. The question is

whether we have reached the point,

what has held Tory MPs back until

now is there is not some perfect

candidate waiting in the wings, and

a replacement Prime Minister would

really hasten demands for an

election and Tories do not want an

election now. We may have come to a

point where the greater worry is

Theresa May cannot negotiate Brexit,

too compromised, the EU is saying,

you might not be here in six months.

That is accelerating the revolt.

Absolutely. This is also about ideas

and refreshing Tory ideas, a story

in the Sunday Telegraph, before

that, I have noticed over the last

few weeks and months, the Sunday

Express, your paper, putting

politics more often on the front

page than it used to. Why?

We have

always splashed on hard news

stories. It is sometimes associated

with health stories. We have gone

for the news of the week. Politics

is selling for us and it is good and

we always do the Sunday lunch test

when we think about what we will

splashed on, what are people talking

about? The readers have felt

vindicated by Brexit and want to

read more about it. Fisheries is

emblematic and that is why we put it

on the throat.

-- the front. Revived

Thatcher...

This is Lord Saatchi,

head of the 1922 Committee, new

generation project. Taking on the

Corbynistas. It makes the point that

the Conservatives have lost some of

the key arguments of Thatcherism,

perhaps in an attempt to be more

like Labour. He they are saying, go

back to Thatcherite principles, be

unashamedly conservative but with

compassion. Amber Rudd will be

giving the keynote speech which

might raise eyebrows.

A vast list of

stories to cover, up one and a half

minutes left, all very quick. James,

Northern Ireland, another really

important political story.

It has

not been sorted yet. What I thought

was really interesting in this piece

in the Observer is the scale of the

robustness of the briefing... We

think only the Brits brief, the

Europeans briefed very hard.

Fantastic quote, a senior EU

official is quoted as saying, from

my impression, the issue of Northern

Ireland is not a priority for the

UK. If I was UK negotiator, I would

find it deeply offensive. A quote

from an incredibly powerful

pro-European MEP who accuses,

Britain's experiences a collapse,

overstatement to say the least.

A

lot of very aggressive briefings

from Brussels. The NHS, finally.

This is a piece in the Observer,

talking about the pressure on Philip

Hammond to produce more money from

the offer from the NHS but the

budget, we are looking at long waits

in A&E up Wi-Fi from 2% since 2010,

he is being asked to find money for

the NHS, housing, cancer and a

liberal world peace at the same

time.

An awful lot resting on this

budget.

Thank you so much, that was

a really good run through of the

most important stories.

Remembrance Sunday, few places

in Britain suffered as much

during the Second World War

as London, its Mayor,

Sadiq Khan is with me.

We were talking about Nazanin

Zaghari-Ratcliffe, she is a

Londoner, I wonder what your take is

on this story.

Our thoughts are with

Richard her husband and Gabrielle

her daughter, her local MP has been

campaigning for the last 18 months

to get attention on her campaign,

not in the way it's got in the last

week or so and of course I think

it's important Boris Johnson

clarifies the huge error he made

because he has been asked... What he

said, it's an admission under cap of

the British government about what

Nazanin Zaghari-Ratcliffe is

supposed to have done. She needs to

be back home in London for she

belongs.

Do you think Jeremy Corbyn

saying he must now resign or be

sacked is going too far?

As you

panel said this is the latest in a

long list of gaffes made by the

Foreign Secretary, in relation to

the Libyans, he has offended the

Americans, saying President Barack

Obama is anti British because he

uses part Kenyan, what he said about

whiskey tariffs, I think he has got

to go. Here's our Foreign Secretary,

his job is diplomacy and

representing the best interests of

our country and of Theresa May was a

strong Prime Minister she would have

sacked him a long time ago.

Questions about why she quoted in

the first place, she did, but surely

she must have enough for him to go.

Your record as mayor in London, 18

months, your original manifesto you

said this, I want to be crystal

clear, no ifs or buts come off what

you will pay if I am elected mayor

in 2016 as a traveller in London is

what you will pay at the end of my

four years in office. Have you stuck

by that promise not?.

Absolutely, in

eight years before I became mayor,

TEFL fares for up by 42%, I've

frozen them, TEFL fares are frozen

for four years, the problem is the

government is in charge of the

private companies, my point is

simple, if I can freeze TEFL there

is, why can't you? If they froze the

affairs of the private operating

companies, travel fares would be

frozen as with the oyster...

What I

suggest you haven't actually frozen

fares, you go to the tube station,

you watch people going through the

barriers, almost everyone is using a

contactless travel card or credit

card or oyster card, those fares

have gone up.

Those people who don't

benefit... Plus fares are the same,

trams are the same, unless you get

to the cab of a travel card, there

is an increase but that is because

of the government's unwillingness to

stand up to the private companies.

If I can freeze TEFL fares, 42%

under the previous guy, zero

increase... And these companies are

making huge profits.

You said all

fares and four huge numbers of

people using London transport that

promise has not been kept.

There is

a chance for the Chancellor in a

week and a half to do what I have

done, reduce inefficiencies and

freeze the train operating company

affairs. If I can do it for

Transport for London I don't see why

the government can't, it's a good

example of the government being

scared to say boo to a goose and

commuters losing out.

You don't

regret the slogans you are using.

I'm really proud to have frozen

fares and we've brought in to- one

within an hour. All the things Boris

Johnson said he could do when he was

mayor.

With regards to housing, 50%

of housing under you would be

affordable you said, that hasn't

happened.

We are publishing a draft

and plan in the next few weeks and

that will set out the ambition.

You

said it was a target, it would be a

target, it has now become a

long-term ambition which is

something very different.

It is a

target. In my first year as mayor we

increased the number of affordable

homes given permission from 13% in

the last year Boris Johnson was

mayor almost 40% in my first-year,

using his policies. I have not

changed policies yet, it takes some

time to draft a draft...

The number

of houses built in London is

dropping shortly -- sharply, the

number coded is down by 30 odd

percent, why?

A number of complex

reasons from Brexit to the certainty

caused by developers and investors

by Brexit, the investment the

government has given to

infrastructure, the good news, in my

first six months as mayor we have

managed to increase the numbers

permissions for affordable homes to

record levels, what we need to do

this with the government to commit

to housing investment,

infrastructure, police councils from

the burden so they can borrow to

invest in council homes but also

make sure we get a good deal but

London. We need to build much more

comes in London, we have a housing

crisis affecting all parts of

London, not simply the cleaners,

porters, below was paid but

start-ups, Chief Executive is, and

headteachers.

Are you still an Uber

man?

I have never knowingly used a

Uber but what I am not going to do

is take risks with security and

safety. I support the TEFL decision

to say to Uber and others,...

It

seems as if you have made nice after

was the thought would be a punch-up.

Uber a talented -- challenging

Transport for London as is their

right, there are four reasons why

TFL were persuaded Uber was not

safe. But I am happy that the Chief

Executive of Uber has recognised

Uber were wrong. We will meet with

Uber to see if we can reach a

compromise but it's important to

recognise that Uber have apologised

for mistakes made in the past and

are willing to make sure in the

future the quality of service they

provide a safe and secure.

Staying

with four wins, you have been

aggressive in some of your targets

for removing diesel emissions from

the capital, diesel fumes kill a lot

of Londoners, what do you want to

see from the budget in terms of

scrappage schemes because a lot of

more poor Londoners had diesel cars,

and telling them they must get rid

of them is pretty tough.

When

Michael Gove speaks to you shortly I

am hoping he will say he has

persuaded the Chancellor to set up a

fund to support those armies,

businesses and charities to move

away from diesel. We need a clean

air act fit for purpose, the

21st-century, more investment,

powers for regions and foreigners

around the country...

What about

taxes?

More than 40,000 people

across the country died prematurely

because of the poor quality are, a

combination of carrots and sticks,

we need to move people away from

diesel, not sending them back to

petrol because of concerns around

carbon emissions. I am investing

record amounts in walking, cycling,

public transport, we need to make

sure the government, a truly

important in Michael Gove comes to

it, has good news, not three, four,

six years down the road, now.

There

was controversy between you and

Donald Trump not so long ago on

Twitter and elsewhere, you did not

want him to come to the country, he

is coming next year, are you

planning to the visitor would you

like to meeting?

I have been a blood

in practice it in and on Twitter

between President John Baron is

this, we must have really good

relations with our closest ally, we

have a special relationship with

them... It is good that Theresa May

and Donald Trump have a good working

relationship of what I am not in

favour of is a state visit, with all

that entails, the red carpet being

ruled out, I welcome the good

relations that Donald Trump and

Theresa May have...

If he comes here

as Mayor of London, should you need

him?

If I am asked to meet with them

I will be happy to meet with them

and show him parts of London for

those of all faiths and those of

non-are respected, tolerated and

embrace each other. We can be a

beacon not only to the USA President

but to the rest of the world.

Final

question, do you want to stop

Brexit?

I accept the verdict of the

British public that we are leaving

the EU, what I am against is no

deal, hard Brexit, what I want is a

Brexit that is good for jobs,

prosperity...

I said last question,

I will ask you one more, isn't it a

ridiculous idea that London could

have a different deal from the rest

of the country? London as part of

the rest of the country, it can't be

separated by a border and have its

own arrangement?

I'm not suggesting

a unilateral declaration of

independence, nor will there be a

border or a walk built around the

M25, what I am in favour, I

recognise London needs to do well

for the country to do well and that

means recognising membership of the

single market, customs union,

welcoming talent to this country,

giving cast-iron guarantees to

Londoners, who are scared about

their future, pro-jobs, progrowth

stop you are on your way to the

Cenotaph, but already there is my

colleague Sophie.

Already there now is Sophie Raworth

who's been speaking to the veterans

gathering in central London.

Welcome to Horse Guards Parade, the

crowds gathering, veterans expected

to take the place shortly. There are

so many people here, so many faces,

stories, conflicts represented and I

am joined by Mike Chapple and Chris

Howe, Mike you are from 84 Squadron,

for the first time.

That's right, we

are here to remember personnel who

fought in North Africa, the Far East

and Middle East, but particularly

the 84 Squadron personnel captured

by the Japanese and imprisoned in

prisoner of war camps. We like to

remember them.

Particularly

poignant, you're centenary year and

the first time you have been here,

you are a unique Squadron, formed

here in 1917 were never been based

here since.

At least bolder in the

new Forest, went to the western

front in France and been operational

overseas ever since, never served in

the UK, currently active with

helicopter operations in Cyprus.

You

are a Falklands veteran, on board

HMS Coventry in May 82, it is

poignant for you to come back here.

Certainly is, a hard core of HMS --

HMS Coventry, one of the

opportunities we get too remembered

19 of our shipmates who lost their

lives, we come here to remember,

March and respect and to support

each other in the years that have

gone by and it's something you never

forget, the tragedy that happened,

sunk in 20 minutes by bombs and it

was quite horrendous.

You sustained

terrible injuries, almost a third of

your body was burned but you went

back there for the first year, you

went above the wreck of HMS

Coventry?

12 of us went on a

pilgrimage 35 years on and we

managed... Loss of sound... To take

us out over the Coventry war grave,

we held a service, Casa out a

wreath, poured out a tot of wrong

for our shipmates and it was so

emotional. And we hope we did our

shipmates proud.

I have been

admiring your wonderful poppy. Made

by your grandson.

It was made by

Nico. As part of their project they

went to the Poppy factory and it was

a great project. -- a tot of rum.

There is a seven-year-old taking

part in the march past as well as

the oldest veteran, 99 years old, a

gentle man called Ernie and we will

talk to him. But Andrew, back to

you.

You will have noticed that the

umbrellas are out.

A classic raw, dank,

bone-chilling November morning.

Susan Powell will fill us

in on what's coming next

for all those memorial crowds

gathering up and down the country.

You are exactly right, cold are

sinking its way south and the chill

is amplified by a biting northerly

wind. Here are the way things will

look at 11am, scattered showers to

the south, heavy showers across

Wales and the West Midlands, hats

with some help. Sunshine North and

east, showers running into the East

Coast, tending to thin out in the

next couple hours across Northern

Ireland, still some to come for the

Highlands and Grampians, wintry at

times. The wind is a key factor,

showers in the West easing this

afternoon, drifting more onshore

into Yorkshire, Lincolnshire and

East Anglia, temperatures deceptive,

that is the way they will look on

the thermometer, this is how it will

feel. The stinky chilly. Staying

with the chill overnight,

high-pressure building killing the

wind, leaving clear skies, perfect

for widespread frost to start the

new week, temperatures as low as

minus five. Monday starting chilly,

pride, enjoy the early sunshine,

clouding over in England and Wales,

being cold Monday afternoon, rain

for Northern Ireland, and some snow

on the way for Scotland. A wintry

feel.

lot of very aggressive briefings

from Brussels. The NHS, finally.

Remember, the countryside does need

frost. We will be talking more about

the countryside later.

Sometimes, when I'm reflecting

on Brexit, I wonder if it's

an argument about who we choose

to have our trade deficit with -

the EU or the rest of the world.

That's really about our productivity

- inventing things here

the rest of the world wants.

And one of the great

optimists about our future

is Sir James Dyson, who has created

an engineering hub in Wiltshire

and is now planning a new university

for engineers there as well.

I spoke to him earlier this week

and began by asking him

about that project.

We are hundreds of thousands

of engineers short at the moment.

I think we will be 2 million

engineers short by 2022.

To solve that problem,

we are establishing a university.

I have been going to the Secretary

of State for Higher Education,

saying, "There aren't enough

engineers, there aren't

enough engineers."

I went to Jo Johnson and said,

"There aren't enough engineers."

He said, "Do your own university."

It took me about 30 seconds

to say, "Yes, I will."

I saw immediately that

was what we should do.

This is a university to produce more

engineers for Britain,

and presumably, for Dyson as well.

But to what extent do you also

depend on engineers coming

in from outside the UK in large

numbers to help you?

I understand we have

50 nationalities here,

so we are bringing engineers

in from France, all over the place,

but what I am much more interested

in doing is keeping engineers

here who have studied

at British universities.

60% of engineers reading engineering

at university are from outside

the EU and 90% of researchers,

postgraduate researchers,

at British universities

in science and engineering

are from outside the EU.

We do not make them welcome, we tell

them to leave when they finish.

This is madness.

Have you spoken to the

Government about this?

"For goodness' sake,

we need these people.

They will make us richer overall."

I have been speaking to

the Government for years about it.

Damian Green, for example,

at the Home Office told me that

if we allowed engineers to stay,

a whole lot of universities

would pop up having spurious

engineering courses,

which is nonsense.

Complete nonsense.

There is a complete impasse here.

They won't allow engineering

and science students to stay or make

them feel welcome and that's

precisely what we should do.

During the referendum, you were

a great advocate for Brexit.

A lot of people watching this

programme now feel very

scared for Britain's

prospects after Brexit.

Why should they not be scared?

Well, there's fantastic

opportunity outside Europe.

There is opportunity within Europe,

but Europe is the slowest

growing area in the world.

The other areas are much faster

growing and I think 90% of future

growth will come outside the EU

and that's true with Dyson.

86% of our growth last

year was outside the EU.

We have already fallen off

the cliff as a company.

We pay the WTO tariff into Europe.

We fell off the cliff some time ago,

as the Bank of England keeps saying.

Yet we are one of the

fastest-growing companies in Europe.

It hasn't held us back at all.

Nonetheless, as you say,

more than 80% of your

exporting is outside the EU.

What do you say to those people,

very often car companies and others,

with complex supply chains,

connected to the EU at the moment,

who are worried about the tariffs

to and fro and really think

they are in trouble?

It is not a problem with the supply

chain because that is duty-free.

It is the sale of finished cars

that is a problem because it is 10%.

So the Government has got plenty

of room to give tax deductions,

compensation, to British exporters

of cars to Europe.

On the 100 billion of imbalance

of trade, they will have 10% duty

which is 10 billion,

so they can afford to give

10 billion to the car companies.

As somebody who is very optimistic

about Britain after Brexit,

how confident are you that this

government will actually deliver

Brexit, given the way

things are at the moment?

Well, I don't think

it is the Government's fault.

I think the problem is the people

we are negotiating with and I think

demanding billions and billions

to leave is quite outrageous

and demanding it before we have

negotiated anything is outrageous.

So I would walk away.

I think that's the only

way to deal with them.

I've been dealing with the EU

and the EU countries

for the last 25 years,

on IEC standards, energy labels

and all that kind of thing.

There is no way to deal with them.

You have to walk away.

If you walk away,

they will come to us.

They want to export

all their products to us.

They will come back to us.

We are in a very,

very strong position.

Incredibly strong position.

We shouldn't give them any money.

We should just walk away

and they will come to us.

What you would like to see is some

time in the relatively near future,

Theresa May's government looks

at the negotiations and says,

they are not working,

not going in the right direction,

and literally, walk away?

We have tried very hard.

We have been very reasonable.

They have been incredibly

unreasonable and I think it is now

the time, the time has come,

to walk away.

Post-Brexit, how are we going to

make enough money around the world?

How are we going to change

as a country to make that work?

Because we are going to have

to change, aren't we?

We are going to have

to change and we should have

changed a long time ago.

We have ignored manufacturing

and engineering and technology.

We have got to refocus ourselves,

as indeed Singapore did 50 years ago

when it split from Malaysia

and they have become I think

the second largest technology

exporting country in the world.

I wonder whether there is any chance

in your view of a genuine

manufacturing renaissance happening

in post-Brexit Britain?

My theory about why manufacturing

left is that we had decades

of high interest rates,

ridiculously high interest rates,

24% at one point when I was

manufacturing wheelbarrows.

Then the very difficult

employment laws.

This is controversial,

but since I don't know what orders

I am going to get next month or next

year, industry, manufacturing

is very volatile.

Not being able to flex your

workforce is another big reason why

you wouldn't start a manufacturing

business or expand

a manufacturing business.

Easier to hire and fire in effect,

is what you're saying?

Easier to hire and fire.

So when it comes to things

like corporation tax, for instance.

People say, if there

is a problem with industry,

the Chancellor should just freeze

or cut corporation tax

and that will solve things.

From what you were saying,

that is a rather simplistic

and narrow view of what needs

to be done.

I think corporation tax

should be eliminated.

A tax on profits is the wrong

way to tax people.

Corporation tax is a very odd thing.

There are ways of getting

around paying it.

You should not really be

taxing people's profits,

you should allow profits

to be reinvested.

And also, if you remove corporation

tax, you encourage a lot

of industry to come to Britain.

Since we are talking about tax,

in the light of recent developments,

in the end, should companies

pay their due taxes?

Is this something that is a moral

duty, do you think,

for a big company?

Yes, it is a moral duty.

It is a legal duty and a moral duty.

Indeed, we paid 450

million in tax last year,

so we are a big contributor.

You have thrown yourself now and put

2 billion behind one of the most

complicated things any engineering

company can do which is

to produce a new car.

Can you tell us

anything about it yet?

I would love to but my

lips are sealed.

It is an electric car.

Will it be driverless?

There will be some driverless in it.

I cannot talk too much about that.

Of course, that is coming, slowly.

You must not rush that.

It is interesting because we have

to develop everything.

We are developing

new battery technology

because that is crucial to it.

Electric motors are something

we are pretty skilful in,

so we are doing interesting electric

motors.

It will be an entire Dyson car,

nobody else's components.

And I think at this stage

you have not decided yet

whether you are actually

going to manufacture this car

in the UK or somewhere else.

What would it take to make

you decide to choose the UK?

We are going to make it ourselves,

but whether we make it

here or somewhere in the Far East

or wherever, we haven't decided yet.

It is really about component

supply and skills.

There isn't anything

Philip Hammond could do?

Not really.

We will go where it is best to make

the car from the point of view

of getting the supply chain

which is crucial and the skills

necessary to build it.

In terms of all the things

you want to do, we haven't spoken

about the amazing RAF airfield

you have acquired.

Tell us a little bit about it

and what you want to do there.

We ran out of space here so we need

somewhere to expand.

We are building a car and that is

a very good place to test it.

It was built in the mid-'30s,

early-to-mid '30s.

At the end of the war,

there were a thousand

aircraft on that airfield

and there are nearly 600 acres

there and lots of old hangars.

A wonderful base

from which to start.

Sir James Dyson, thanks very much

indeed for talking to us.

Quite a story.

The Oscar-winning 1950s

star Gloria Grahame

is almost forgotten now.

But a new biopic starring

Annette Bening will do

much to revive her fame.

Film Stars Don't Die in Liverpool

sees Bening play the actress

in her final years when she finds

love in the arms of a younger man.

Billy Elliot star Jamie Bell plays

the lover from Liverpool in a tender

and beautifully-made film.

A labour of love for Hollywood

producer, Barbara Broccoli -

the woman behind the James Bond

blockbusters.

This is a personal project that's

being tipped for success

come awards season.

You are the next door guy, right?

Which makes you the girl next door.

I need a partner for my dance class.

If I make you a drink, will you come

into my room and hustle with me?

If you fix me a drink, I will come

in and clean your bathroom.

So, is this like a date?

That's Gloria Grahame.

Big name in black and white films.

Proper star, she was.

I recognise that pout.

She is often the bad girl.

It is incredible to look

at the number of films

in which she was hit,

which was very common then,

especially in that period.

If you were the bad girl,

and you were usually

paired with a bad guy,

and if you did the wrong thing,

he would just give you a smack

and she was smacked around a lot

in those movies which

is hard to watch now.

But she was great.

That's a nice perfume.

Something new.

It attracts mosquitoes

and repels men.

Doesn't work that way with me.

It's not supposed to.

And she was smacked around

quite a lot in real life,

medically at any rate.

She kept going though,

that's the extraordinary thing.

She had a lot of trouble

in her private life

and she just kept going.

A trooper.

Yes, exactly.

She seemed to be a real survivor.

By the time she was here

in England doing plays,

she had also done some plays

in America, tiny

theatres in the midwest.

She was really having

a hard time finding work,

but she was, she was a trooper.

She also needed to make a living.

She had a family.

She had herself to support.

Jamie, your character, much,

much younger than Gloria,

falls in love with her.

What makes him fall

in love with her?

I think a number of things.

She really sees him for who he is.

I think he came from a family

that was very specific,

working-class and all the things

we associate with that,

and he wanted to be

something different.

He wanted to be an actor.

He had a lot of different dreams

and ambitions from his family.

He wanted to get to

London, which he did.

I think she saw him for who he is.

You are an artist,

an actor, I get you.

I see you.

I do not think he had

really had that before.

Really understand each other.

A lovely scene where you are dancing

again, dancing on screen.

That is great, crucial

to their relationship.

Physical clicking that goes on.

Yeah, it covers three,

four scenes, that one scene.

The awkwardness, the attraction,

gets it done in one scene.

Has anyone ever told you you look

like Lauren Bacall when you smoke?

Yeah, Humphrey Bogart.

I didn't like it then either.

Of course, Gloria Grahame won

an Oscar, very famous film,

Bad And The Beautiful,

with Kirk Douglas.

I guess there is a kind of hovering

over this because you have been

nominated four times,

you must be sick of being nominated.

This film has a certain

feeling around it.

Is this the one, do you think?

I have no idea.

Out of my control.

If Gloria Grahame is watching,

she might hand it to you.

The other really extraordinary thing

about this film in terms of things

that films are about,

it is about an older woman's

sexuality which is more or less cut

out of most popular culture,

but she is still a very sexy woman,

still determined not to lose that.

Just talk a little bit

about that aspect of the film

because it is unusual.

Yeah, of course, that is an obvious

subject and a lot of

people are discussing it.

I know that when I started in movies

when I was in my 30s,

I routinely was paired with men

who were 20 years older.

My husband is 20 years

older than I am and no

one ever mentioned it.

It was considered to be normal.

Whereas with our film, it is a

double standard.

The other way

around.

All of us, including women

of all ages, we like to see

characters that are complex, not

just Herrick, but also people that

have frailties and faults. Female

sexuality is something that

continues your whole life and I

think people tend to forget that.

The women who are in our lives do

not forget but the stories we are

told to forget it.

One of the people

behind this film, crucial figure,

Barbara Broccoli, a labour of love,

she takes money from huge

blockbusters she makes and puts it

into films like this. A young, Jim

fit English actor, male actor, who

will be the next Tom 's bond --

James Bond?

Good answer!

Barbara

Broccoli, I think most of us agree,

she should be president of the world

or queen of the universe or

something. I think there is nothing

left to say about Harvey Weinstein

except to ask, looking back at the

traditional Hollywood casting couch,

is this the tip of the iceberg, do

you think?

The important thing to

say is that it is in its old

businesses and most women have had

some experience, either a small not

very traumatic experience or sadly

in the case of a lot of these women

with Harvey Weinstein, very

traumatic extreme experiences. This

is getting a lot of attention

because the women are famous. But

there are a lot of women who work

quietly, cannot just quit their

jobs. I am talking about women who

work in the post office, in hair

salons, in lawyers' officers. In

show business, it is big-band more

fun to talk about. -- it is big and

more fun to talk about. If they do

talk up, they get fired.

Annette

Bening, Jamie Bell, thank you very

much for talking to us.

Film Stars Don't Die

In Liverpool opens on Friday.

And you can see Gloria Grahame

in The Big Heat when it plays

as one of a number of her classic

films coming back to cinemas across

the country from November 24th.

It's been another bumpy

week for the Government.

When is it not?

But Michael Gove,

the Environment Secretary,

has won some plaudits from the green

lobby for his determination

to save the bumble bee.

We'll come on to that,

but there's just a few other things

we should discuss first.

I am tempted to call due swampy

golf, how does it feel to be fated

by the left, green lobby?

One thing

about politics, you can't always

know who will react well or badly to

what you announce the side, look at

the evidence, make up your mind,

deciding your heart what you believe

is right and take the consequences

and sometimes what I have argued for

in education has inspired negative

reaction, some of that inspired

positive reaction but you have got

to believe if you follow the

evidence and do the right thing

ultimately the judge as the country

in a better position?

Let's talk

about doing the right thing in

relation to one of the most

important stories today in relation

to as a means Sakkari Radcliffe, in

an Iranian President.

What was she

doing? I don't know. One of the

things I want to stress, there is no

reason why she should be in prison

in Iran. -- in and Iranians prison.

-- Nazanin Zaghari-Ratcliffe.

Someone whose plight necessarily

moves us all.

You say you don't know

what she was doing, her husband was

clear she was there on holiday with

her child.

In that case I take

exactly her husband's assurance in

that regard. Was she training

journalists? Her husband said she

was there on holiday and her husband

is the person who should know, her

family or the people who should be

in our thoughts at this time but one

thing I want to stress about the

line of questioning you want to go

down, I know there is an effort

somehow to shift attention and

direction from who is really at

fault and it is the Iranians regime,

they are the people who jailed her,

the people upon whom are focus

should light and there is no reason,

excuse or justification for her

detention and she should be

released.

And therefore it's very

important for our top diplomat and

representative of this country,

Foreign Secretary, to choose his

words carefully and it comes to this

regime. Do you not think it's time

for Boris Johnson to formally change

what he said, he apologised for the

effect of it, he hasn't changed what

he said?

I think there is nothing

the Iranians regime would like more

than for the attention to be shifted

off them on to us and I think we

make a big mistake Andrew, if we

think the right thing to do is blame

politicians in a democracy who are

trying to do the right thing for the

applied of a woman who's been

imprisoned by a regime that is a

serial abuser of human rights. Who

is in the dock? Iran. It should be

the actions of the judiciary and

their Revolutionary guard...

With

respect, not good enough, the

judiciary they are using Boris

Johnson's words to take her back to

Court and suggest she will face

another five years because of what

he said. He is part of this story.

If the Iranians judiciary want to

use the words of a Democrat to

justify an unjustifiable position it

is our responsibility to call them

out, let's not play their game...

Those words weren't right, he said

he thought she was training

journalists and that has been

grabbed onto by extremist members of

the Iranians judiciary to put

applied into a worse position, that

is his fault, surely?

Whatever we as

Democrats choose to do or say

extremists will exploit for the

wrong purpose, we played their game,

if we point the finger at Democrats

who are trying to do the right thing

when extremists are responsible for

the abuse of human rights we should

burn and resolute in making it clear

as a country, across all political

parties, it's the Iranians who are

responsible, in particular the

Revolutionary guard and the Iranians

judiciary.

Do you think Boris

Johnson chose his words carefully?

I

think you and I and others have a

responsibility to think carefully

about who is really at fault and

that is the Iranians regime.

We can

agree they are at fault but we can

also agree there is a problem here,

let me remind you what you said

about Boris Johnson here...

I

enjoyed working with him during the

referendum campaign, I think he has

great talents and great abilities

but you need something else to be

Prime Minister, you need to have

that great, executive at parity,

sense of purpose and clarity. I had

hoped Boris would show that that in

the end it was not there.

Rip,

authority, cloudy, still very

important if you are Foreign

Secretary, can you say he has shown

those things?

I think he's doing a

great job as Foreign Secretary, I

also think the attempt to shift the

blame away from Iran and onto aid

democratic... Not trying to shift

the blame. I know you are not and

you are fairly reflecting Prince of

opinion here in Westminster and

elsewhere but I think it's plain

wrong for us to try and find fault

with Democrats win the

responsibility is to say to the

Iranians regime, you are a serial

abusers of human rights, state

sponsors of terrorism, blood on your

hands on Syria, your responsibility

is to ensure this British citizen is

at liberty. We played their game,

into the hands of the extremists if

we do anything other than show

solidarity in the face of their

abuse of human rights.

Can I suggest

Boris Johnson if he cannot be sacked

for this is now a completely on sack

above figure in this government?

The

thing about every member of the

government is that we are all there

because the Prime Minister believes

we should be doing a particular job,

no one is unsackable, we are all

there in order to do our job and I

think Boris is doing a good job as

Foreign Secretary. And I think

critically the countries that wish

Citizens Advice very least no good,

our countries that we should all

stand up to collectively together.

You've made up with him, haven't

you? I tried to get on... You went

for him quite publicly and famously

and we had quite an exchange about

that... We certainly did. We

certainly did. There is a member

repeated in the Mail on Sunday

today, the two of you right to

Theresa May and in that you say we

are profoundly worried in some parts

of government the current

preparations are not proceeding with

anything like sufficient energy. Can

you explain what you are worried

about?

I will say two things, I am

not going to go into the detail of

what may or may not have been seen

in private correspondence. I've

helpfully read it out. You have not

seen the original letters so I am

not going to go into what is or what

is not in the letter. The business

of government would grind to a halt

that everything in every letter was

discussed on the show.

Let me ask

about the sentiment, are you worried

about the state of Brexit and a new

deal?

I have a bigger responsibility

than almost any other domestic

minister to make sure we are ready

for any eventuality and I am not

worried but I'm determined to ensure

that in by under par and which is

the area for which I have

responsibility, we have everything

in place for every eventuality. What

I want, what I believe the country

wants, certainly what the Prime

Minister and the Cabinet want is to

secure a good Brexit and that is

what we are working towards, doing

everything we can to secure that you

but we are also making sure whatever

happens in these negotiations,

Britain can make the best of them.

You will have caught a little bit of

James Dyson, inspiring figure, he

says let's just walk away now.

I can

understand his point of view but on

this occasion I respectfully

disagree, I think it's far better

for us to be engaged in

negotiations, I think David Davis is

doing a very good job in making sure

British interests and the wider

interests of Europe are respected in

this process.

In this process there

is an expectation that Theresa May

will have to go further with money

in order to open trade deal talks

properly, would you block if she

tried to do that?

I would not. I

would not block the Prime Minister

in doing what she believes is right.

We have to make sure when we are

negotiating on money or anything

else we both respect at's interest

but also ensures the Prime Minister

said, no EU country is pocket as the

result of decisions we have made and

the Prime Minister in her Florence

speech I think spell bad I'd

effectively and my view is the Prime

Minister and David Davis should be

given the flexibility they need in

order to secure a good deal.

You

know in this programme we love to go

back and trawl through quotes and

put them to people, I have tried

really hard, all the way through the

referendum campaign, looking for

quotes from Michael Gove which said

and by the way, we will pay £20

billion and I can't find those

courts. Because you didn't tell

people, did you?

During the

referendum campaign I was

interviewed on lots of shows

including this one I think and one

of the points I made at the end of

this process, we will have taken

back control of money and our law.

The critical thing about this

negotiation is to make sure we pay a

sum to cover our obligations and

once we had paid that as the prime

ministers said, we won't pay any

membership fee for the EU any more.

When Simon Stevens said from the NHS

we need a 350 million quid a week,

is he going to get it and when?

Simon Stevens is a good case for

increased funding in the NHS which I

have always supported, I think the

sum mentioned we discussed in the

past... And the Sun mentioned? £350

million, that is the gross figure

the European Union controls every

week, once we are out of the

European Union we can then decide

how we spend that Ronnie and I

think, as Jeremy Hunt said last week

I would like to see a significant

slice of that money. Once we have

let go to the NHS but ultimately

it's for the Prime Minister and

Chancellor to decide.

That come to

your own department, you announced a

new body to oversee environmental

protection after we leave the EU, in

your article you come quite close to

suggesting there are some things the

EU has done rather well.

I think

it's only there to say there are

some things that have happened while

we have in the EU that are good. If

one looks at the EU record on the

environment there are balancing

items, on the common agricultural

policy and fisheries policy I think

they got things wrong but the

European Commission and some of the

direct as it hasn't forced our good

things. Some of those direct this

had been altered by British

politicians, the habitats directive

was the product of Boris Johnson's

father Stanley and it's been a

British politician working

internationally to achieve something

worthwhile for the whole world.

Some

people who supported Brexit might be

surprised cos they think the point

about Exodus Parliamentary

sovereignty, make parliament in

charge of everything and already,

even before we left, you create a

new bureaucracy outside Parliament,

why is it necessary?

I think it's a

mistake to think parliament should

do everything, the point about

democracy is that you have a balance

of institutions and in the article I

wrote in the Sunday Telegraph, I

made the point that it plays an even

more important role, it's the case

that judiciary will play an

important role because of judicial

review, we need to go further and we

need to recognise there are

institutions at arms length from

government, properly independent

that can play a role in making sure

citizens get the justice they

deserve and in particular, the

environment gets the protection it

deserves.

UCB will have better

environmental protections when

really the EU but is there not as

Galbraith put it, a counterforce,

that we have to change our

regulatory regime to get the best

kind of deal, that we need with the

US, lowers standards in some areas,

not higher?

I've been clear and Liam

Fox has been clear, while we want a

trade deal with the United States

won't lower environmental or animal

welfare standards. Free trade is a

good thing but it founders on the

rocks of public opinion if people

try to use it as a Trojan horse if

such a thing can founder on rocks

for lowering environmental

protection, we are not going there.

Can I ask about the practical effect

of all of this, for changes in the

British countryside do you want to

see after we leave the EU? How will

things look different, better

hedgerows, more organic farming,

Woodlands, what is your picture the

British countryside after we leave?

All of the above, what I firstly

would like to see is more trees, we

have a determination to ensure over

the course of the next few years we

planned 11 million more trees in our

country, we also want to see a

growth of the sorts of habitat that

encourage a wider range of species,

I want to see the number of farmland

birds increase, the number of

species on the verge of extinction

and endanger return in all the

numbers and I want us to help

support farmers to produce food in a

sustainable and productive way. It

doesn't mean everyone has to go

organic...

Your colleague

Christopher Grayling said if we left

after no deal one of the things we

would have to do is grow more food

in this country, presumably your

department which is well prepared as

planning for that?

It's not the case

the department grows its own food

but it is the case the British

farmers are the best in the world,

adaptable, ready to cope with

different scenarios, it's our job to

help them but a critical thing is, I

expect British food... Dig for

victory? British food will be in

increasingly in demand worldwide,

the trend overall globally is

towards greater quality and British

food is in the best position,

British farmers in the best position

to meet that demand for the highest

quality.

We are running out of time,

can I ask you something that

Siddique Khan said, we need a new

clean air act in this country, and

we need a new regime for diesel and

petrol cars.

I won't get into the

budget, the Chancellor would chew my

ear off if I tried to speculate what

would be in at but we have tried to

bring forward electric cars, bring

forward cars... There will be more

that we will announce, what we need

is cleaner action, not a clean air

act. -- one.

Virtually everything we

think of at the moment, as a car, is

going to go, then people are

thinking about their next car should

they think about buying electric?

I

would like to encourage people to

buy electric or hybrid. Do you drive

an electric car? I don't at the

moment, my wife who writes, I won't

go into what she writes about, she

reviewed an electric car, fantastic.

I recognise what we need to do is

bring down the cost, they are not

within everyone's budget, the

purpose behind setting a regulatory

timetable is giving people time to

adjust. Michael Gove, thank you.

The National Trust has seen a huge

rise in its membership, with more

people visiting its properties

than ever before.

24 million last year paid to see

historic houses and gardens.

But the Trust has been

embroiled in controversy -

accused by some of being

politicised, anti-Brexit

and anti-fracking.

I caught up with the National

Trust's chairman, Tim Parker,

at Sandham Memorial Chapel,

where the artist Stanley Spencer

created a spectacular series

of murals about life in wartime.

Tim Parker explained

their unique significance.

What's unusual about a resurrection

type of picture is that

Christ isn't prominent.

It really is the soldiers who fill

this space and the notion

that, at some point,

they will get their just reward

and they will be able to carry

on doing what they have always done,

the everyday things in life.

Spencer spent the war

as an orderly in a hospital

in Bristol and then later on,

in Macedonia, he

joined the infantry.

These paintings show all sorts

of small everyday aspects

of the First World War,

the kind of things

we are not used to.

It is not trenches, it is not

heroics, machine guns or artillery.

It is map reading, showering,

bread-and-butter, the day-to-day

stuff of a long and boring period.

It was and I think a lot of people's

experience of war was a sort

of combination of very short bouts

of intense pressure and risk

and danger, punctuated with long

stretches of just living life under

these very constrained

circumstances.

And you would expect

a chapel of paintings

about the First World War to be

a depressing and gloomy place,

but they are full of hope,

these paintings, aren't they?

They are full of hope and I think

it is remarkable when you read

the writings of people

who were in the trenches,

who endured a lot of the fighting

in the First World War,

human beings always have hope,

it is the antidote to the horror

and the carnage and the terrible

aspects of any point in life.

It is almost like there

is an equilibrating kind

of mechanism in human beings.

If you love English paintings,

then Sandham Memorial Chapel

in Hampshire is a place

you absolutely have to come

and see for yourself.

This is a unique,

coherent work of art.

There is nothing quite like it,

I think, anywhere in Britain.

So we would love to welcome

more visitors here.

I guess, as the man in charge

of the National Trust,

you are aware of the criticism

that the National Trust,

despite its huge success,

is not spending enough time really

thinking about looking

after its monuments and is spending

too much time playing politics.

We are always subject to criticisms,

I think, and the general one might

be Disneyfication and we're not

taking seriously some of these

things and I can assure

you that we are.

We have just doubled the number

of curators at the Trust.

I don't think our research budget

has ever been higher. Occasionally,

there are slightly more, I would

say, riskier interpretations which

tend to draw the criticism and the

impression we are somehow changing

the quality of what we present, but

it certainly is not true.

Some

specifics, in terms of other

rituals, you have been very

forthright talking against fracking

and Brexit. -- other issues. Is it

appropriate for an organisation like

National Trust to have an opinion on

something like Brexit?

We have

members encompassing many views, we

are a broad church. We are

interested in where Brexit affects

policy. We have spoken about the

impact of Brexit on farming and the

potential impact of Brexit on

funding for heritage. But that is

our core business.

It gives you a

great deal of power. Let me read to

you what John Patten said in the

House of Lords, probably familiar

with it. He said, the National Trust

has set off on a totally new course

with its additional lobbying

activity producing a new and

positive blizzard of lobbying and a

maelstrom of demands and advice for

first Brexit.

He is entitled to his

opinion but I can assure you that

the Trust campaigns for one thing

and that is conservation and where

we see our conservation agenda

abutting other policy areas, we will

take a view. We have not become a

climate change campaigning

organisation. We have not become a

campaigning organisation for

re-wilding. We seek to protect

nature and look after our English

Heritage.

The controversy recently

about one of your properties where

the members were asked to work gay

pride insignia. In Norfolk. The