19/11/2017 The Andrew Marr Show

Good morning.

Budget week.

Crucial choices for the Chancellor,

the government and the Tory party.

We used to agonise about

the level of public debt.

Well it hasn't gone away -

88% of GDP - compared to around 50%

when Denis Healey went cap in hand

to the IMF in 1976.

We're up to our eyes in debt.

So the extra spending demanded

by so much of the country -

for welfare, pay, health,

you name it - can only

come from two places -

higher taxes paid by you or yet more

debt piled on debt.

The Chancellor joins

us this morning.

But who is he?

"Spreadsheet Phil"

or "Handout Hammond"?

And his opposite

number, Labour's Shadow

Chancellor John McDonnell,

is demanding an emergency

budget for Britain.

But has this man ever seen a

spending commitment he doesn't like?

Lots of scepticism there.

I've been talking to

Tamsin Greig and Martin Freeman

about what their West End hit has

to say about politicians.

We are in an age where

understandably at times we are

sceptic about politicians and their

motives. That's fair enough, we need

a bit of scepticism. But part of me

thinks, why would anyone go into it

if you didn't truly believe it?

Why

indeed?

And reviewing the news,

the Co-Leader of the Green Party,

Caroline Lucas, the Editor

of the Sunday Telegraph,

Allister Heath, and Senior

Political Correspondent

at The Times, Lucy Fisher.

All of that coming up shortly.

First, the news with Naga Munchetty.

Saint Barbara's President Robert

Mugabe is expected to meet military

commanders this morning a day after

sons of thousands of protesters

called for his resignation. --

Zimbabwe's president. Robert Mugabe

has so far resisted calls to stand

down.

Mr Mugabe has so far

resisted calls to step down.

His party, Zanu-PF is expected

to begin the formal process

of stripping him of his role.

Shingai Nyoka reports from Zimbabwe.

It was the most significant

event since the country's

independence in 1980.

The Zimbabwe defence forces told

the nation that they would be

free to march Saturday -

and so they did.

Previously, we were never allowed

to walk on this road,

because we could go past

the State House, but today it's

a different day altogether.

The dawn of a new era.

The military, often feared here,

received a rapturous welcome

as they monitored the protests

against President Robert Mugabe's

37 years in power.

After being silenced for so long,

the Zimbabweans have finally

found their voice and thousands

of people have poured

out on to the streets.

They want to pressure

President Mugabe to go.

Mr Mugabe hasn't spoken for days,

but his nephew says he is prepared

to die and will not be pushed out

of power through a coup.

But his Zanu PF supporters

are already deserting him.

They're expected to meet on Monday

to strip him of his party position

and then later in the week

to remove him as head of state

if he continues to refuse to resign.

Critics say that this

is essentially amilitary coup,

dressed up as a people's revolution.

But the opposition leader,

Morgan Tsvangirai, disagrees.

In the interests of the people

of Zimbabwe, Mr Robert Mugabe must

resign, step down immediately

in line with the national

sentiment and expectation,

taking full regard of his legacy

and the contribution to Zimbabwe -

a free and a positive outcome.

No one knows whether Mr Mugabe has

been watching the television

coverage of protests,

but he has always said that

if the people of Zimbabwe wanted him

to go, then he would go.

The Chancellor of the Exchequer has

pledged to use Wednesday's Budget to

help build 300,000 new homes a year.

Philip Hammond has told the Sunday

Times he will invest billions and

fix planning regulations to get

builders building. Also announce

funding to put driverless cars on

the road within four years.

Police in Dorset say they believe

they've found the body

of missing teenager,

Gaia Pope.

The 19-year-old had not

been seen for 11 days.

Specialist search teams made

the discovery on Saturday close

to a coastal path near Swanage.

Detectives said the death

was being treated as "unexplained".

Her family have said

they are "absolutely devastated".

The Queen and Prince Philip

will celebrate their 70th wedding

anniversary tomorrow.

To mark the milestone,

Buckingham Palace have

released this new portrait.

They are the first royal

couple to celebrate their

platinum anniversary.

That's all from me.

The next news on BBC One

is at ten o'clock.

Back to you, Andrew.

Thank you.

Robert Mugabe has not gone. To many

people he's been hanging around

interminably on the threshold. That

presents problems for all of the

media, newspapers included, the

Observer has the story, joyous crowd

from Harare as Mugabe era nears the

end, they say. The Sunday

from Harare as Mugabe era nears the

end, they say. The Sunday Telegraph

has a big Philip Hammond story, the

Budget pay boost for nurses it says.

The Royal College of nurses already

welcoming that but we will talk

about that with that editor shortly.

The Sunday Times has a terrible

picture of the chance the scratching

his head and gardening at a paper.

They have an interview with him

inside and he is promising to build

300,000 homes per year and much more

inside. -- gurning at a paper. Fear

has gone as people turn on "Thief"

Mugabe. And the very sad story, the

Gaia Pope story, talking about that

body being found. The Mail on Sunday

doing its best to cheer you up, junk

Labour MP in berserk Brexit fracas.

That says it all, we probably won't

talk about that. Are we going to

talk about the Budget?

I think Lucy

was starting.

I beg your

talk about the Budget?

I think Lucy

was starting.

I beg your pardon. A

lengthy interview by Tim Shipman,

your colleague with the Chancellor.

An anti-war whole set of

photographs. A more colourful

interview perhaps with the

Chancellor than we have had for a

long time.

It is. He rejects the

characterisation as an aeon. He

seems to grasp the problems he is

facing. He talks about the need to

tell a story about Britain, about a

vision post Brexit, what the country

will look like. But he was asked to

describe himself as he chose the

word fiscal. He also talks about

fiscal responsibility. Does not

leave him much manoeuvring room.

The

basic criticism from Tories of him

is that this Budget has to be a big

moment, it must be a turning point

for the party. They have to be

excited, energised, and that isn't

his strong point.

It's not. His

party wants that. Labour has this

electoral momentum. There is the

sense that the public is weary with

austerity. But at the same time as

you mentioned in your introduction,

debt remains at 80%. We have falling

consumer spending. Brexit

uncertainty. He must prove he can

keep a grip on public finances.

This

cannot be a hand-out Budget. It

can't be a fiscal relaxation, can

it?

No, and I don't think it will

be. Something important will happen.

A key play for austerity is going to

be entered. We are going to see more

movement on public sector pay. Our

big story in the Sunday Telegraph is

about Hammond finally starting to

increase pay for nurses. There is

going to be a committee set up which

will review what they think nurses

should get. Hammond is going to say

there will be money set aside for

that. If pay were to go up by 3%,

for nurses that would cost an extra

£1 billion. That is more new money

for the NHS. Hammond is being

buffeted from all sides. From the

left various Jeremy Corbyn, on the

right the free-market Brexiteers.

And they want a lot of movement on

housing and tax, the free-market

Brexiteers. But on the left you have

Jeremy Corbyn and people who are

wary of getting pay rises, that kind

of stuff.

You have selected public

sector pay as an issue of movement.

In his interview he said we must do

something about this, people have

been waiting years for austerity,

it's time to change. And he is

signalling that change.

Yes, we went

on that because it's an interesting

story. So is housing. But we already

know they want to move on that. But

this is a shift, on pay. One of the

key planks of George Osborne's

strategy, let's reduce public

spending in part by freezing public

sector pay. This is just going on

and on.

Caroline Lucas, there are

many things and Budget can do in

terms of changing the direction of

the country. You have chosen John

Prescott in their Sunday Mirror.

Calling for more on climate change.

A quick word first on public sector

pay. I think it's extraordinary it's

taken this long for the government

to barge on this. Really our public

sector is in such crisis. A quarter

of nurses having to find second jobs

just to make ends meet. We need the

funds into public services. John

Prescott is talking about the fact

we need to have a Budget for climate

change. He is talking about the

importance of the office of

budgetary responsibility. Factoring

in the cost of climate change in the

future. He is saying that the costs

of climate change could be around

£75 billion per year by 2050. It is

welcome he's talking about that.

What we also need is a Budget that

not only factors in the costs of

climate change to the economy over

time, but has measures in the Budget

that will bring our emissions down.

I've not seen much about that yet.

Can ask you about the Green party's

view on electric cars. -- can I ask

you. We are supposed to have them

all over the country or charging

points. Is that good or bad for the

environment?

As long as the from

renewable energy, that is more

positive than it coming from fossil

fuels. What we would also like to

see is more investment in public

transport. We shouldn't keep having

our towns and cities organised

around the assumption that everybody

is going to be driving a car on

their own. What we also need to see

in the Budget is a massive

investment in insulating peoples

homes. That would be one of the

fastest ways of getting people back

to work.

Using less electricity?

Yes, in the first place. A slightly

concerning story in the Sunday

Times, builders cheat homeowners on

energy test. We've already had the

VW cheating, now cheating on whether

people's homes are energy efficient.

Let's turn to the other side of the

political spectrum. John McDonnell

giving an interview to the Observer,

I think. It is under there

somewhere... There he is. It's

clearly wants a massive public

spending boost. The weird thing is,

at the moment, you would think the

Labour Party would be way ahead in

the polls but they are not. Is that

because of scepticism about the

Labour spending plan?

That could

well be the case. I think it would

be the case. 42% conservatives, 40%

Labour. Slightly ahead. Labour

haven't been able to bridge that

barrier. There was a lot of

uncertainty around the 's spending

plans of labour. It wasn't clear

that Labour could bring in as much

as they say.

The sense of

self-confidence, I suppose, from

John McDonnell and Jeremy Corbyn has

been much stronger since the

election.

I think that's right.

There is a sense in Westminster that

they are on the front foot,

projecting confidence, as you say.

It's interesting to see John

McDonnell, one of his weaknesses

traditionally since he has been

Shadow Chancellor has been a

slightly cold exterior, that's the

impression in the public. But in

here he seems to come across a lot

warmer. He talks about going saving

in Norfolk -- sailing in Norfolk

with his wife, and the boat is

called Morning Star.

We haven't

mentioned the P word at all, but you

talk about an interview with Priti

Patel. -- B word.

It is a very Priti

Patel peace.

What does that mean?

CHUCKLES

It is very much like Thatcher. Very

Pro-leave. Talking about growth, all

of that type of thing. There is a

line where she asks the chance to be

more visionary. That's the big issue

in his Budget. We've been talking

about pay and housing but there's a

lot of demand for the Chancellor to

be visionary, to start to fight back

on Labour's territory, which is to

inspire people to say, look, if you

vote for us, keep us in power, we

will change the country for the

better. We will be radical.

He was

on one side of the Brexit argument.

And getting the confidence from the

Brexiteers.

It's not just about

Brexit. It is about building a

country fit for it. We don't know

what the negotiations are going to

lead to so we need to be prepared.

But it's more about vision. If

politics is only about accounting

and detail than people are not

inspired. At the referendum people

became inspired. On either side of

the debate. We needed it more of

that. I think that is what Priti is

getting at.

You've got a tablet, I

don't want to call it anything else,

for your next story.

May I take a

couple of seconds...

You can have

two.

CHUCKLES

Martin Donnelly, in the Observer, on

Brexit. He was the adviser to Liam

Fox before the international trade

department headline which shouldn't

even be contemplating leaving the

market. He's talking about the costs

of Brexit. But it made me think

about that quote from David Davis,

lecturing the Germans, saying we

shouldn't put politics before

prosperity. To say irony is that,

it's belied by that statement.

Because if he hasn't been doing that

himself the last few months I don't

know what he has been doing.

It's

interesting how many former civil

servants, who are always supposedly

impartial, entering this debate.

He

has left.

Yes, so he can say what he

wants now. But this perception that

civil servants are united against

Brexit is only reinforced when we

see this kind of article.

There are

plenty of other examples.

We have the Herald Zimbabwe and

euphoric scenes as people demand

Robert Mugabe stand down. It strikes

me these images are of such hopeful

excited people and one can only hope

that their aspirations will be met.

Because the fear that is Robert

Mugabe gets replaced by his

vice-president, who doesn't sound

like an improve, the

crocodile. I

love the nick names, we have two

expletive deleted, and gown with

shenanigans. Driver-less cars will

be part of budget story and this is

something the Government have been

preparing for and Jeremy Clarkson

against the idea.

It couldn't be

worse timing when Philip Hammond

announcing funding for driverless

cars, Jeremy Clarkson to say he

almost died in a driverless car when

filming his show. He says that t

technology is a long way off.

He may

have been doing things in his

driverless car that most people

wouldn't be doing. Taking it places.

He claimed it was the M4.

The future

of driving shows is also

questionable.

That is the worry

about driverless things and Jeremy

Clarkson will be out of a job.

As

long as we don't go to driverless

political programmes.

And so to the weather.

Proper winter.

We're even apparently

going to be promised snow -

I don't suppose for the soft South,

but maybe for the rest of you.

Over to Philip Avery

in the weather studio.

Over to Philip Avery

in the weather studio.

You're on your own with the soft

southerner description. A chilly

start this morning under the clear

skies. Beautifully caught as ever by

our weather watchers in central and

eastern parts. Wasn't like it out

west. You were closer to this warm

front and got enough about it with

that cloud for some rain already.

Essentially it is a dry day for M as

we get into the afternoon, it stays

chilly and the sunshine is tempered

as the cloud moves in. There is the

snow, high ground above the central

belt, above 200 metres and that snow

level rising as we import mild air.

But it is a dull start on Monday and

wet for many of us. That is the

extent of snow for the next few

days. Once the heavy rain moves off

into the North Sea we are left with

a lot of cloud. Any good news? Yes,

it is mild. 11 to 13. But for

Scotland seven to nine and here is

the thing - wet and windy. Mild with

the wind in the south-west. It turns

colder from Friday on to this time

next week end. Thank you.

colder from Friday on to this time

next week end. Thank you.

Labour's Shadow Chancellor,

John McDonnell, has already demanded

an £17 billion emergency budget

for NHS, social care, schools

and local government.

Trouble is, as I said

at the beginning, we're up

to our eyes in debt.

Can extra spending from Labour

really just come from a few

offshore hedgefunds?

I'm joined by Mr McDonnell now.

Something weird is happening in

politics, the Government are not

having a happy time, and yet your

not way ahead in the polls. You're

level pegging. Why do you think it

is happening?

It is the usual thing.

With an incumbent Government,

they're usually ahead unless there

is a crisis. If you look on economic

credibility, we are behind.

Quite a

way behind.

12 months ago we were 28

points behind. So we are narrowing

the gap. We are trying to have a

serious debate in advance of budget

and demonstrate we have the vision

and the plans.

You want an emergency

budget, tell us about what you want

as an emergency budget and why?

If

we had been elected I had published

the costing of our, the grey book.

Dark blue tie, grey book.

That set

out our plans. I have said to him

the messages from our public service

and those who are suffering from

universal credit is hitting people

hard and NHS the Chief Executive

said if we don't get more investment

there will be five million on the

waiting list. In terms of what is

happening to education, 5,000 head

teachers saying halt the cuts. What

we have said is there is a range of

things that they are asking for that

we covered in our manifesto that he

could fund not through borrowing,

because o fiscal rules said you can

only borrow to invest. So what we

said is end the tax cuts to the

corporations first of all. That is

the first thing. And over the

lifetime of the Parliament 76

billion paid out.

That will hit

corporate profits and employment.

What has happened is the Government

has been cutting corporation tax.

That has meant that earned income by

the corporations has been stacked up

and not invested we know the figures

lchs

You want to force corporations

to reinvest money?

Stop giving cuts

to the rich and recognise you have

got an emergency out there in term

of public services, invest it in

those.

This message has not quite

cut through to the public. Could I

put it the reason that people

understand we are overborrowed and

they look at your plans and it is

more money here and there and it is

too much.

That is why I'm saying we

mustn't borrow for day-to-day

expenditure. But to investment. It

is not just me saying that, you have

you had a cabinet minister saying

interest rates are so low that now

is the time to borrow for investment

and I I degree.

But they are going

up. I want to ask you some questions

I have asked before, you have an

ambitious programme of

nationalisation, how much is that

going to cost?

What we have said and

this is very clear cut, and I have

said it before, when you take...

I'm

looking for numbers.

You don't need

a number. You swap shares for

Government bonds and that is covered

by the cost of those profitable

industry.

But it is still borrowing.

It will be Parliament that sets the

price on those. The cost is always

covered because these are profitable

industries and that will cover the

cost of borrowing.

That may be the

case but at the start, I am saying,

how much will taxpayers have to

spend to re-nationalise the

industries?

There will not be a

burden on taxpayers. The price will

be set by Parliament, government

bonds will be issued and any cost

will be covered by the income from

the industries. What we think and it

not just us saying this...

It sounds

like a magic card trick.

It isn't it

has been done across Europe. In

Paris water has been brought back

into public ownership. Because

people think they have been ripped

off.

What about bringing PFI back

into public ownership ship. No cost?

There is £200 billion committed to

PFI, we think the costs are too

heavy and we will review the PFI

schemes and go through them and we

will do deals on bringing them back.

This is a big promise that you have

made and you must have some sense of

the up front cost.

Again, when you

bring them back, you will make a

saving, because you're not paying

out the extents, expense for those

companies.

You have to buy out the

contracts. That will cost money.

Over the life of the contracts the

savings will pay for it. What we

will do is go through each scheme

and there will be consultation and

not only will we get a better deal

financially.

As with the

nationalisation, you can't give me a

number. Can I give you one last

number, all your planning is based

you spend and invest a lot and as a

result the economy grows faster and

because the economy is growing, you

get more taxes and everything

balances, by how much does the

economy need to go?

People need to

understand what we're saying. A lot

of figures have been bandied around.

What we are saying is we invest 250

billion pounds over a ten year

programme, so about 25 billion a

year, this is nothing untoward, what

past governments have done. If we

don't do this, we are not keeping up

our competitors, that will bring a

return...

This is eye watering sums,

250 billion.

Over a ten year period.

If we don't, we won't keep up with

our competitors. You know as well as

I, when you invest those sums, look

at the reports by PWC, you get a

return on that that covers the cost

of borrowing.

Fit is well invested.

That is why I say at the conference,

we are setting up a strategic

investment board to bring together

myself the Secretary of State for

business, the governor of the Bank

of England and that will get the

best deal and more importantly we

will be able to compete in a global

market.

You have been a bit of an

Eeyore about the economy. By how

much does the economy for this to

work this plan to work, by how much

does it the economy need to grow.

It

is not the economy growing, it is

the individual investments and the

return we get. On those returns you

always get if you invest wisely, you

will get more than you have to pay

out.

I am just wanting one little

number.

You're asking the wrong

question in terms of growth. It is

about individual investments. 250

billion we are putting in through

our investment through mainstream

programmes and setting up and this

has been supported in a range of

commentators, a national investment

bank to bring in 250 from the

private sector and asset managers

are saying to me, these are

confidential discussions, but

they're saying that they're

welcoming our stable investment

programmes, in terms of what we are

suggesting for the public and

private.

People are listening to you

saying there is John McDonnell with

a Tory dark blue tie and a white

shirt, his grey book and he spends

his time hanging around with asset

managers, but they're still not

convinced, maybe because you have so

gloomy about the economy. You have

said three times we were heading for

recession and it has not happened.

I

didn't say depression. I said if we

are not careful that is what

happens. But for many people out

there, for many people out there,

this is a depression. People's wages

have been cut by 10%. Nurses for

example. We have had people who are

now one and a quarter million food

parcels handed out in the sixth

richest country in the world. That

is what I call a recession for large

numbers of people and this

government is giving tax cuts to the

superrich and corporations. That is

the difference that we have, the

grotesque inequality in society.

There are a lot of dark shadows

across the economy, but all over the

happiness index has gone to the

highest level since 2011, that is

bizarre from your point of view.

People are happier.

Go and say that,

ask Philip Hammond this, when did he

last viz ate a food bank.

That is a

different question.

I'm talking

about the levels of insecurity in

society, for the first time, I will

quote opinion polls, we have people

say of all generations for the next

generation it will be worse for

them. When I was young we thought

there would be a steady increase

that no longer applies, because

young people can't expect even the

same living standards as their

parents.

A requirement I must ask

you about Brexit and we have had a

lot of difficult talks, one of the

issues the Irish Taoiseach raised is

what happens to the boarder in

Northern Ireland. It seeps that

there are the -- it seems there are

two choice, either all of Ireland

stay in the custom union, or there

will be a real tough border between

Northern Ireland and southern

Ireland on which side of that

argument do you feel.

Bringing back

a hard border would be a nightmare

and wouldn't be practical. We have

to... Have a relationship which is

as close to customs union as we can.

I would not want to see anything,

anything, that undermines the peace

process in particular and all the

that gains that we have had and the

hard border would undermine that

relationship that has been built up

between north and south.

You would not have any principle

objection with Ireland's staying in

the customs union.

We're not saying

the customs union, but a customs

union.

A unique relationship, you

think?

Those are the negotiations we

must take. But we must make sure

that we don't go backwards on this.

We mustn't jeopardise the peace

process in any way.

You have spent

your entire career believing in a

united Ireland.

The Irish people

will decide whether or not their

future, it won't be to the EU or us,

it will be to the Irish.

But a

separate economy?

That is a separate

issue. The key issue is to make sure

there isn't an arrangement that does

not affect the economy 's North or

cells, and also that it doesn't

undermine all of the goodwill that

has happened in order to get the

peace process.

Thank you very much.

Coming up later this morning

on the Sunday Politics, Sarah Smith

will be talking about Brexit

and the Budget with

Conservative Party darling

Jacob Rees Mogg, and Gisela Stuart

and Alastair Campbell will be

debating the impact of Brexit -

that's the Sunday Politics at 11

here on BBC One.

Having dramatised the Murdoch

takeover of The Sun in "Ink"

and parliamentary manoeuvring

in "This House", the writer

James Graham is having another big

moment in London's West End.

His new play, "Labour

of Love", teams

Martin Freeman and Tamsin Greig

as a Northern MP and his

constituency agent

in a safe Labour seat.

It's a comedy that has many serious

things to say about modern politics.

When we met, Martin Freeman

told me why, personally,

he's a fan of people who go

into politics for a living.

I was already pretty admiring

of politicians and the amount

of time they give to their job

and give to their communities -

if they're doing it well.

And this is just sort

of crystalised this for me.

It takes a certain kind of heroic

attitude I think to take that

much stick all the time,

potentially all the time.

We're in an age where,

understandably sometimes,

we are sceptical about politicians

and their motives and

that's fair enough.

We need a bit of scepticism.

But part of me just thinks,

why would anyone go into it

if you didn't truly believe it?

What makes you get

up in the morning?

It's not untold wealth,

it's not untold riches.

So as much as you might be social

climbers or in it for slightly

awkward political reasons,

actually if your heart is not

with the constituents,

because you're a representative,

you're not there to be

an up-and-coming MP,

you're there to be the mouthpiece.

She is very clear when she says this

is what you need to be

as a member of Parliament,

she says, I know you're

there at Westminster four days

a week and here only Friday,

but it's the work you do here that

gets you re-elected back there.

Would you agree with Martin

that this is in the end a kind

of anti-cynicism play?

I think it's a political love story

that asks the two sides,

the extreme sides of the party

to kiss and make up.

It is the alliance...

Fat chance of that!

We do kiss and make up in the end.

We do in ours, yes, I guess

in our idealised version

of the Labour Party,

we do kiss and make up.

I think since I'm in my 40s

and I have been interested

in the Labour Party all my life

really and so I have always been

used to this thing of the left hates

the other part of the left more

than it hates the right and so I'm

very familiar with that.

And you have been almost, not

a spokesman for the Labour Party,

but you have been, you engage

directly in Labour campaigns

yourself as a non-actor,

as a private citizen.

Yes, and to be...

Full disclosure, I was only asked

because I am an actor,

but, yes, of my own volition.

You know, that happens

to be my team.

I could tell you the Tories will

take us on a rollercoaster of cuts,

while Labour will make sure

the economy works for all of us,

not just the privileged few like me,

but it's not just about that.

And you were quite keen on Corbyn

you quite like Jeremy Corbyn

as a man, don't you?

Yes, I think genuinely,

I think most people do.

There is a lot of Tories

who quite like Jeremy Corbyn,

or think of him as a decent person,

they can get their head around that.

No, I voted for him,

I voted for him and I would vote

for him as the leader of the party,

but then I would vote for

you as the leader of the party...

Me?

Yeah.

Because it's my team.

Aw!

I thought you were

going to vote for him.

Him, no.

No, I would vote for him as well.

I'm not in any party.

It's obvious yes.

Bloody commie!

This play is the first time

I've ever seen or read

something presented,

a passionate argument

for the centre.

Because the centre is usually seen

as a cop-out, or just as a weakness

or something that is like a weak cup

of tea or something,

just not anyone's real flavour,

or it is careerist or something.

James Graham's words that I'm

lucky enough to speak

at the beginning of Act 2,

where my character puts out

a philosophy for not why the centre

is maybe the best of the bad,

but actually can work and can

serve the country and can

serve communities best.

Someone needs to write

that speech for real

at the conference and someone...

And deliver it well.

And you have had politicians

who can deliver it well

coming in to see the play.

You have had Peter Mandelson lots...

Hattersley was in the other night.

Did any of them come

behind the scenes and tell

you what they think of it?

Mandelson did, obviously.

What did he think of it?

Mandelson was interested

in whether we talked

about him in the play,

because he was in that night.

Which I thought

was an interesting...

I said, yeah, whenever we know

someone is well known,

we put a bit in for them to thank

them for being there!

Which was very funny and sweet.

I think he really liked it.

It was quite close to home.

But I think people are very excited

about the fact that this centrist

argument has an airing,

this story seems to be

something that is necessary

to be heard right now.

Great having you both on the stage

here, but you do lots of other work.

You have this extraordinary film,

Black Panther, coming out.

Tell us about this,

this is a Marvel comic,

but it was produced in the '60s

at the time of the real

Black Panthers were on the move

and Marvel felt all of our

superheroes are white,

we need to change that,

so how do you fit in as a white man

into basically a black film?

I think as a matter

of historical fact, I think that

Marvel's Black Panther strip

or comic appeared,

because both that and the party

happened in '66 and I think

the comic happened first.

I think the comic

happened earlier in '66.

So they took the name

from the comic?

I'm assuming that would have been

some sort of cultural reference,

because it was in the air

at the time.

Myself and Andy Serkis have been

referred to as the token white guys,

because we were both in The Hobbit

and Lord of the Rings, so, yeah,

we are holding up the white

end in Black Panther.

-- Tolkein white guys.

You are the ethnic minority.

Yes, I'm the government guy,

I'm a CIA guy called Everitt Ross,

who again was a character

in the comics as well,

and who sort of has an uneasy peace

to the Black Panthers and he goes,

my character goes on a strange

journey and a enlightening journey

to a fictional African country.

It is really good.

What is next for you, Tamsin?

I'm going to do some more

Friday Night Dinners,

the final series that we are

shooting from January.

So that will be on and then

the Dinners are done.

And we will see.

I'm very excited to see

what the television industry

are going to do with women

of my age, because this is really

fertile ground now to just see

how imaginative writers

and producers can be.

Writers and producers -

there is your challenge!

Thank you very much indeed.

And "Labour of Love"

is at the Noel Coward Theatre

in London's West End.

It's just a few doors up

from where the same writer

James Graham's other big new play,

"Ink" is currently playing.

I predict that we'll hear lots more

from him in the future.

The Budget is a chance

for a Government which has been

in deep trouble to wrestle back

the political initiative.

But some Tories wonder

whether Philip Hammond

is the right man for the job.

Nick Timothy, Theresa May's

former chief of staff,

launched a scathing attack on him

this week, saying "The Chancellor

lacks a burning desire to change

people's lives for the better."

Philip Hammond joins me now.

That's not just Nick Timothy, is it,

lots of Tories think you are good on

the numbers but lousy when it comes

to the big politics.

Nobody would be

in politics if they didn't have a

desire to change peoples lives for

the better. We might disagree about

how do that. But I personally

believe that a solid economy, a

Sound economy, growing, offering

people opportunities, for the

future, is an absolutely essential

bedrock to a civilised country. I

want to see us creating a world in

which people can realise those

opportunities in the post Brexit

world we are facing.

Your party

desperately needs something to

change. Is this going to be a bit,

exciting project which gets the

country going?

All budgets are big,

political events. I hope what

Winston will do is give me an

opportunity to set out our vision

for Britain post Brexit. -- I hope

what Wednesday will do is give me. I

think we are at something of a

turning point. We had a difficult

year. We are now, I think come on

the brink of making some serious

movement forward in our negotiations

with the EU. And starting to unblock

that logjam so people can start to

see clarity about the future. We

have had a nasty bout of inflation

this year. It looks like it is

getting to the top. We can expect to

see it falling next year. And after

many years of struggling to get the

deficit down and see our debts still

rising, I think we are, at last,

about to turn at corner and the debt

begin to fall.

You said this morning

that public sectors have had years

and years, and strained every

muscle, to deliver on what they can.

Lots of civil servant workers are

shattered by the long austerity. Is

that also about to change?

Public

services do brilliant work. They

performed extraordinarily well. The

NHS, which you wouldn't believe

listening to some opposition

politicians, that public

satisfaction with the NHS is at a 20

year high. Our public servants are

doing a remarkable job in what I

acknowledge is difficult

circumstances.

You want to talk

about the NHS. Simon Stevens has

said recently, he wants an extra £4

billion as you know, but he says on

the current funding if it be hard to

expand mental health services or

improve council care. NHS lists grew

to 5 million people by 2021 on the

current Budget. That meant an extra

million people on the waiting list,

which would mean the government

would have to change the law to

abandon some of the current target

on waiting lists. You would not

allow that to happen, would you?

Simon Stevens drew up the NHS

five-year view back in 2014. He was

the one who set the envelope of

resource that he asked the

government for, £10 million extra by

2020. We agreed to fund that. That

plan is not at the moment being

delivered. We understand the

pressures the NHS is under from

higher demands than predicted. And

we want to work with the NHS to

address these problems and get it

back on track.

But he is very clear,

you need an extra £4 billion, and if

he doesn't get it come he says

that's all right, but then we cannot

achieve...

Let me tell you a Budget

secret. In the run-up to Budget

people run -- running all kinds of

services come to see us and they

always have very large numbers which

are absolutely essential, otherwise

Armageddon will arise.

You don't

believe him?

I don't contest for one

moment that the NHS is under

pressure. We've been doing careful

work with the Department of Health,

with the NHS, to look at where the

pressures are, to look at capital

needs of the NHS, to look at whether

particular pressure points all

around targets. And we will seek to

address those in a sensible,

measured, and balanced way.

But you

are not impressed by the Simon

Stevens demand.

I'm very impressed

by the way Simon Stevens fight his

corner. I'm glad to see he does. Of

course, he's a very skilled and

accomplished public servant. I'm

sure he will carry on delivering for

the NHS.

Almost everybody agrees

there is a housing crisis in this

country. Sajid Javid was sitting in

that chair if you weeks ago and he

said it's a real problem, we need

big thinking, we need £15 billion of

extra money to completely transform

the housing situation. Then we can

build hundreds of thousands of

homes, the hopes that this country

needs, have you turned him down?

He

did not mention that, you should

check that.

People presume that all

the time.

That was mentioned

afterwards. We've been working very

closely with the Prime Minister. She

said in Manchester in October that

this is her number one priority. And

the Budget is our opportunity to set

out how we are going to deliver on

that priority, how we are going to

make good on our pledge to the next

generation, that they should have

the same opportunities their parents

had. It isn't acceptable to us that

so many fewer young Britons are able

to own a home now than just ten or

15 years ago. It's not acceptable to

us that there are not enough

properties available to rent and

that rent is sky-high. The answer is

we must build more homes. We are

delivering planning permission is at

record numbers. We are delivering

homes in record numbers, 217,000 in

the last year reported this week.

That is a big amounts and 2010.

Do

you have a number in your head?

The

challenge is affordability. Experts

generally agree. That start making

inroads on the affordability problem

we must be sustainably delivering

around 300,000 homes a year. On

average. Across the housing cycle.

That's a big step up from where we

are now. There is no single magic

bullet. It's certainly not about

pouring money. Because if you pour

money and without fixing the other

elements of supply you will simply

create more howls price inflation.

-- house price inflation.

Isn't one

of the crucial thing is to have more

relatively inexpensive land in the

right places where people actually

want to live, that means encroaching

a bit in some areas near railway

stations, so on the green belt?

We have made commitments about

protecting the Green Belt. There is

lots of things we can do using

planner and intervention powers to

get planning permissions that have

been granted biment. In London there

are 270 residential planning

permissions that have not today been

built. We need to understand why

these planning permissions that are

going up that will continue to

increase across the country, why

they are not being built up. We will

intervene to make sure they are and

use money and the powers of state

and the powers of the planning

system, but we are determined to get

those missing homes built.

One of

the things that stops younger people

getting into homes is stamp duty, it

is so expensive to buy your first

home. Is there anything you can do

for them?

Well, obviously, I'm not

going to discuss tax ahead of

budget. But we recognise the

challenge for young first time

buyers that...

It is almost

impossible.

We have put in place

schemes s like the help to buy loan

and have given the first time buyer

an opportunity. But nobody is saying

we have done enough. We must do

more. We recognise there is a

challenge there and on Wednesday I

shall set out how we intend to

address it. It won't be a series of

small measures, important though

those may be, you have the vision to

get Britain building again. I will

set out a vision with a number of

measures. We have got to re-create

the small and medium sized house

building sector that used to exist

but was wiped out in the financial

crisis. We need small building firms

in every town and city as well as

the big national builders. We have

got to make sure they can access the

finance that they need. So we have

got to make sure, we are importing

bricks and concrete and we have got

to make sure we have the materials

and train the workers so there will

be a raft of measures that address

these issues. There is no one single

silver bullet.

One other theme is

our technological development, AI

and robotics, there seems to be a

suggestion you will have a push

towards driverless cars. By the next

election, if you're walking up and

down a street in Britain, will you

see a driverless car pass you?

That

is our objective to see fully

driverless cars without the safety

attendant in the car on the roads by

2021. I believe we have to embrace

these technologies and take up the

challenges if we want to see Britain

leading the next industrial

revolution. We have a huge advantage

across a whole range of new

technologies that are going to

transform our lives. If we want to

ensure our future we have to build

the industries to create the high

paying jobs of tomorrow.

Have you

been been in a driverless car.

No

Jeremy Clarkson said they're

dangerous.

I'm promised to go

tomorrow. With robotics more

generally, people say this is a bit

like the first big recent wave of

globalisation, politicians telling

us it will be great and it has

destroyed jobs and hollowed out

communities, robotics will be the

same. There is more than a million

people driving for a living, most

will lose their jobs and itself is

not clear where the next lot of jobs

will come from. Either we embrace

change and put ourselves at the

forefront of us or try to hide and

allow ourselves to slip behind. We

have to embrace change. And we have

to ensure that our people have the

skills and the capability and the

tools they need to be able to evolve

to learn new skills and take up new

careers, I remember 20 years ago we

were worrying about what would

happen to the million short hand

typists in Britain as the personal

computer took over. Where are all

these unemployed people. There are

no unemployed people. There are a

lot of unemployed people. We have

created three and a half million new

jobs, this economy has become a jobs

factory. Constantly reinventing

itself.

But a lot of jobs are low

wage jobs.

I don't agree. The way we

get higher paid wages...

Average

wages are gone down.

To embrace new

technologies and productivity

enhancement. That is another theme,

we must continue to invest in

improving Britain's productivity.

That is how we get higher real

wages.

I said that over hanging this

is the national debt and you

mentioned it, what was it as a

percentage of GDP when the

Conservatives came to power.

About

60%.

Where is it now?

That will be a

matter that will be revealed in the

OBR report on Wednesday. It starts

with 8.

A high eight. That is a

terrible record. You say it is about

to change. That is a really bad

stain on your record as Chancellor

is it not?

No when you have a

deficit of the size we inherited in

2010, your debt will be growing.

You

said you were going to wipe out by

2015.

We have reduced it since 2010

by three quarters, that is ary

markable achievement. -- that is a

remarkable achievement. As we get it

down the growth in our debt has got

smaller until we are at the point or

almost at the point where that debt

mountain stops growing and starts to

slowly decline. That is a really

important moment in our economy's

life.

Is that a promise?

We are at

or near the point where the debt has

stopped growing.

I have some Brexit

questions. Will the public know in

the next couple of weeks how much we

will have to spend to leave EU.

The

Prime Minister is clear we will meet

our on obligations to the EU and we

want to make progress in the

discussions in December and the

Europeans have asked us for more

clarity.

We are running out of time

for this aren't we, we need to know

soon.

The council is three weeks, so

yes.

Will we know then what the bill

will be?

We will make our proposals

in time for the council.

The Irish

Prime Minister asked for a

commitment in writing about how

Britain will avoid a hard boarder in

Ireland, will he get that?

Everybody

wants to avoid a hard border we are

clear it won't be us creating hard

infrastructure at the Irish border.

As the Taoiseach knows, there are

challenges about how we manage the

border and we can can only solve

them in a broader understanding of

Britain's relationship with Europe.

It is a chicken and egg. We have

need to solve the relationship

problem first.

Would it not be

logically and sensible to allow

Northern Ireland to have a different

relationship with the customs union.

Not if it meant a hard border

between Britain and Northern

Ireland. We are not prepared to

countenance anything that could

start to break up the United

Kingdom.

You may not have seen it,

but James Dyson said that the

outrageous demands of the EU on the

British Government, the sensible

thing was to turn our backs and walk

away now. Why is he Ronning?

O' e -

why is he wrong. It is about what is

properly due under international law

and we have been clear that it won't

be easy to work out that number. But

what ever is due we will pay. We are

a nation that honours our debts. And

of course we will negotiate hard

where there is any doubt about

whether an item is payable or not,

but those debts that are clear of

course we will pay.

Why is a

transition period so important?

Because both businesses and

governments need time to plan for

the change ahead, as we leave the

EU, and forge a different

relationship with your neighbours,

things will change and be different.

And businesses need to make forward

contracts, forward plans, government

agencies need to put in place new

arrangement.

When do they need to

know when the arrangements are.

We

need a transition period in place as

soon as possible. I would like to

see it over the course of the next

few months being agreed and then of

course we can work out the exact

details later. Getting an agreement

as soon as possible would be good

for Britain and EU.

Michel Barnier

say it would not be ready until

October next year. Will it still be

useless.

Well it will be less useful

than now, because people will have

started to make alternative supply

arrangements. Britain companies

importing from the EU may have had

to break the arrangements and start

sourcing elsewhere. Government

agencies will have had to start

putting in place arrangements for

Brexit in March.

You're wasting

assets.

Yes it is a wasting asset,

so it is in everyone's interest to

get it in place as soon as possible.

Theresa May said the time and the

date when we leave the EU will be

there in black and white on the

front-page of this piece of

legislation. Will it be?

Well we

have proposed we will have the date

in the bill. But of course

Parliament decides these things, not

governments.

You don't know.

Well,

governments propose legislation but

Parliament is sovereign and there is

a discussion in Parliament about

this. We have no plans to change

what we are putting perfect

Parliament.

--

Putting before

Parliament.

When youlike at look at

the way the EU is negotiating and

the way the economy is growing do

you like people like Jeremy Hunt say

if there was a vote I might vote to

leave the EU and the other side were

right.

There isn't a vote now.

I

know.

There isn't going to be a

second referendum. We have had our

debate and made our decision I'm

committed as is every member of the

cabinet, to getting on and

delivering Brexit as quickly and as

cleanly as possible in a way that

protects British prosperity to reap

the benefit and the opportunities

that are available to us in the

post-Brexit world.

Many of your

critics in the Tory party see you as

the arch remoaner who is not

committed to this, in your guts

you're not committed to our leaving.

I think Britain has a bright future

ahead of it. And we have to embrace

the opportunities that the

post-Brexit world will offer. They

will be opportunities based on huge

change and technological evolution.

It won't always be easy, but the

British people are up for the

challenges and we must run to the

opportunities.

You said one

extraordinary thing earlier on, you

said there are not any unemployed

people. There are 1.4 million.

Of

course unemployment is at record

lows. The lowest since the 1970s and

we have a remarkable record of

creating new jobs and we are getting

people into work at a remarkable

work.

It sounds like 1.4 million

people have been forgeted.

No we are

focussed on getting them into work.

It was the last Labour government

that dumped them on welfare. We have

reformed the system to make sure

that work always pays and to work

with people and to up skill them and

get them into work.

Thank you.

That's all for this week,

thanks to all my guests.

Til next week, goodbye.