04/12/2015 The Papers


No need to wait to see what's in the papers - Martine Croxall presents a lively and informed conversation about the next day's headlines.

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matches and the snooker in York, where there was a real humdinger


between two former world champions. That is all in Sportsday, in 15


minutes, after the Papers. Hello and welcome to


our look ahead to what the papers With me are guests,


the Times columnist Matthew Syed, and Melanie Eusebe, professor


at the Hult Business School. The Times leads with news that


so called Islamic State fighters have captured large parts


of eastern Afghanistan. And Melanie is a fan of the word


humdinger. Everytime he says that it makes me giggle!


The conviction of Maoist cult leader Aravindan


The same story dominates the Mirror's front page,


focusing on the dramatic testimony from Balakrishnan's daughter.


He was found guilty of rape, sexual assault, false imprisonment and the


thing for me which is most shocking is it in brick -- Brixton, this


communist collective was in Brixton, one of the bigger cities in the


world, and this woman grew up for 30 years, no school, no doctors, no


dentist is, no friends, no money. So now he has been convicted of these


heinous crimes. I can't imagine her pain. It is remarkable, isn't it? At


the heart of the city this can happen. The other astonishing


element of this is her own testimony, and her forgiveness. That


is an extraordinarily powerful thing. When you consider the pain


that she has endured at the hands of this sadistic egomaniac, and that


she was completely under the orbit of his control. If you leave the


house you are going to get struck by lightning. She had no access to


external information so she could form an independent view of the


world, and yet in the last two years it seemed she has made an incredible


recovery. She is building her emotional resilience, she according


to the social workers is capable of living an independent life pretty


soon, and that forgiveness, that understanding. She quotes Nelson


Mandela that if she carries that even as she is still in prison. And


she wants to find some reconciliation with the man that was


so abusive towards her. That is about the power of mind control, and


I am so pleased that about the power of mind control, and


I am so pleased he has been caught and will be punished. It raises the


question of how this can happen in the middle of the city, and in a


sense of why didn't someone notice? They didn't notice, and she wasn't


exposed to that outside world. Looking at her diaries and her diary


entries, she was seen as a project by him. She was one of our rota. So


there was no exposure to that parental love, and on top of that


you don't have friends, you don't have that infrastructure where you


have the checks and balances. There are no doctors or dentists checking


full ruses, there is no friends, there is no money to spend --


checking for bruises. It is absolutely shocking that it can


happen in a regular house in South London. Incredible stuff, and if you


do get a chance to see Tom Sutton's interview with the daughter it is


very compelling. The Independent has a fascinating story. Sharia courts,


the inside story. The world we very rarely see inside. Can I get both of


your thoughts on this? What do you make of this lead an independent?


Well, I am trying to have a balanced the spec if -- lead in the


Independent. I'm not sure that the research has come at this from a


balanced perspective. Essentially they were able to spend 15 hours


attending hearings at the is Islamic Sharia Council in Leighton as well


as the Birmingham Central Mosque. Through looking at these cases what


she has determined as there are essentially two separate legal


orders. There is the law as we know it, and then there are the Sharia


courts operating under the shadow of the law, more based on the Koranic


laws than your classic British law. So yes, that is my balanced overview


of what she is saying in this story. So we have discharged the


balanced bet. There is more you want to say about this. You have doubts


about this. There is 15 hours of research, you don't think that's


enough? I don't think that's enough. I think when you are


delving... Again, I want to preface this by saying that I am a feminist,


everyone who does mean is that I am feminist so stories like this


automatically get my goat. I think oh my goodness, why are these Sharia


courts in Britain locking women into marital captivity and doing nothing


to report domestic violence? On the other hand I do think there was a


lack of sensitivity somewhat in terms of the reporting of this


story. And I think that... You know, we have to be very, very careful to


recognise the intersection Audi of these women, to recognise that not


only are they women, but they are also women of a particular race and


at ethnicity, culture and of course religion -- intersectionality. The


story can come across as slightly a white woman from the outside coming


in and just saving the world and not quite reflect in all of the


dimensions of this story. Matthew, I know you come at this from a


slightly different angle. I suppose I should preface this by saying


there will be those who look at this and say there is British law, that's


it. The problem here is religious authority. If a woman is being


abused and she goes to a judge in a Sharia Court who says you should


stay with your husband because that is what the Koran says, she has the


right to go to a British court to say she wants to get out of this


marriage and that will be executed by the court. The problem is that


they feel under a moral obligation to obey the strictures of the judge


because they have a religious duty to do so because they are vested


with religious truth. That is the problem here, and when it comes to


cultural sensitivity, if somebody feels that they can't do what is in


their interest because they are going to be going against religion,


I don't think that there is a sensitivity issue. That is just a


moral precept, to me. That is a bad thing. And I would like to see the


root cause of this religion being superseded by rationality, science


and evidence, and making a moral judgement on the basis of the issues


rather than some cultural or religious norm that is holding women


back. Is there a feeling, Melanie, that the papers become too hidebound


insensitivity and don't see the truth? I don't think the papers can


be accused of being too hidebound insensitivity! I rarely posed that


question. I have never seen that happen. -- they are not open, but


the Rudd people who do speak out on it. -- there are people. I think


even if she had shared the perspective with one of those people


than it wouldn't have looked quite so wrong. And it is very stark. It


is not explaining the full... It doesn't even... In one hand she is


not even respecting these women are separate entities to say, you know


what? They want to follow the Koran, they want to follow the


rulings of Islamic scholars. This is a choice by them, so there are


things that we have two... She is not seeing them as independent agent


at all. So again, she is not recognising the intersectionality.


That is the tragedy of this. They are exercising the choice to go on


with the assertions of a judge has found out by an independent scholar


with more time and access to these courts than almost anybody in


history. The tragedy as they are choosing not to leave because that


is what the religion is telling them to do. I think that is a major


problem. I don't think that is a positive thing, I think that is a


bad thing. She is a self-declared atheist. At least bring in another


perspective, someone who actually believes. It makes absolutely no


sense to me. To another contentious point, on the front of the


Telegraph, there are a few things but notably Brexit, and the Prime


Minister's latest thoughts on this. If ever there is a running topic it


is this one, isn't it? Yes, and the Telegraph as saying that Downing


Street officials are now saying that there is only marginally better than


a 50% chance of Cameron campaigning to stay in the EU because he is


fearful that he is not going to get some of the reforms he is asking for


from his fellow European leaders. Now remember, this is a tactical


battle. In other words, he wants to raise the stakes. We are going to


leave, it is a 50% chance unless you change your mind. I would be very


surprised, even if Cameron doesn't get his way on migrant benefits, for


him to campaign to leave the EU. Because he must know that EU and


other migrants are net contributors to the Exchequer, that they add to


economic activity. I suspect this is a gambit, a tactical move. Is this


an economic or political debate? The two may not come together. In order


to get what he wants from the EU is going to raise the level of


probability in their minds that we might leave. I agree there is a


political issue about sovereignty as well but ultimately I think it is in


our interests to be in from a political and economic perspective.


It was quite surprising because usually Angela Merkel and the Prime


Minister's closest allies indicate that, and she has made it very clear


that she opposes this plan for the denying of in work and efforts to EU


migrants. So we will see how this goes because I do think that with


the push out of the referendum there are going to be several


ramifications that come out of that, not just kind of Britain's exit from


the euro. Now, in the FT, an intriguing story about Wetherspoons


in the FT. We have heard a few hacks over the years. This is an unlikely


one. For several reasons. I am surprised that we haven't...


Probably because of all the other things that have gone on this week


it has slipped to the bottom of the list. So Wetherspoons, one of the


biggest pub groups in the UK, has suffered an attack. 656,723


customers. So that is four times as much as the TalkTalk hack in


October. I remember the day when we were doing the news here TalkTalk


was all over the papers, however this has affected four times as much


and is actually down at the bottom. That is not the funniest part about


it. The funniest part is that they received an e-mail. So the Chief


Executive receives an e-mail saying you have been hacked. And then the


spam filters, the company's spam filters catch it. So they receive an


e-mail on six November and it is only that the Financial Times had to


go back and reported to them, and tell them that you have been hacked,


you received this e-mail. That is quite funny. That has got to be the


definition of technological irony, when your security prevents you


learning you have been hacked. It makes us realise we are all quite


vulnerable. I worry about my capacity to protect my own


information. When you give your information to a big corporate that


are super sophisticated and have teams in quitting your information


but they are still had, that worries me even more. But it is an arms


race, isn't it? Between the security people who want to sell their


software at the protect the information on the hackers were just


a sophisticated. And this is a story that is just going to keep going. I


don't think it will ever go away. There is not going to be a silver


bullet that stops hacking. I didn't even know you could buy from


Wetherspoons online. TalkTalk I kind of understood. I think it was to be


with people who had bought online vouchers. There we are. No one is


safe. I'm not sure how many people buy online vouchers. 656,723. When


they first announced that it was about 100 so somewhere along the


line it has got a lot bigger. Going back to the Telegraph, plastic bags.


Who wants to kick us off on plastic bags? Do you have a strong opinion


on this one? I love a stick, I love the charge on plastic bags. And so


the story is fantastic. What it is it is saying is, results are in,


especially from focusing on Tesco. The 5p charge cuts shoppers' plastic


bag used by four fifths. In less than two months, Tesco customers


used 78% fewer plastic bags. We've got a minute left. The plight


of Kenneth Women's. The diarist to rival Papys. Rightly being compared


with Papys. -- Pepys. One of the lines read out was in walking


through London, a time when being out and being gay was very


difficult, surrounded by fans and admirers and yet feeling desperately


lonely. It is a cliche, the mask of the comedian and the loneliness


within, and he articulate it with an acuteness that is devastating. For


those who have never read them, they are extraordinary pieces of


literature. We are out of time. It was a humdinger. Humdinger! Great


word. Thank you both for your company. That is it for the papers.


Coming up next,


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