04/12/2015 The Papers


04/12/2015

No need to wait to see what's in the papers - Martine Croxall presents a lively and informed conversation about the next day's headlines.


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matches and the snooker in York, where there was a real humdinger

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between two former world champions. That is all in Sportsday, in 15

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minutes, after the Papers. Hello and welcome to

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our look ahead to what the papers With me are guests,

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the Times columnist Matthew Syed, and Melanie Eusebe, professor

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at the Hult Business School. The Times leads with news that

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so called Islamic State fighters have captured large parts

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of eastern Afghanistan. And Melanie is a fan of the word

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humdinger. Everytime he says that it makes me giggle!

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The conviction of Maoist cult leader Aravindan

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The same story dominates the Mirror's front page,

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focusing on the dramatic testimony from Balakrishnan's daughter.

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He was found guilty of rape, sexual assault, false imprisonment and the

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thing for me which is most shocking is it in brick -- Brixton, this

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communist collective was in Brixton, one of the bigger cities in the

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world, and this woman grew up for 30 years, no school, no doctors, no

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dentist is, no friends, no money. So now he has been convicted of these

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heinous crimes. I can't imagine her pain. It is remarkable, isn't it? At

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the heart of the city this can happen. The other astonishing

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element of this is her own testimony, and her forgiveness. That

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is an extraordinarily powerful thing. When you consider the pain

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that she has endured at the hands of this sadistic egomaniac, and that

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she was completely under the orbit of his control. If you leave the

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house you are going to get struck by lightning. She had no access to

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external information so she could form an independent view of the

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world, and yet in the last two years it seemed she has made an incredible

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recovery. She is building her emotional resilience, she according

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to the social workers is capable of living an independent life pretty

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soon, and that forgiveness, that understanding. She quotes Nelson

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Mandela that if she carries that even as she is still in prison. And

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she wants to find some reconciliation with the man that was

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so abusive towards her. That is about the power of mind control, and

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I am so pleased that about the power of mind control, and

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I am so pleased he has been caught and will be punished. It raises the

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question of how this can happen in the middle of the city, and in a

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sense of why didn't someone notice? They didn't notice, and she wasn't

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exposed to that outside world. Looking at her diaries and her diary

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entries, she was seen as a project by him. She was one of our rota. So

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there was no exposure to that parental love, and on top of that

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you don't have friends, you don't have that infrastructure where you

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have the checks and balances. There are no doctors or dentists checking

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full ruses, there is no friends, there is no money to spend --

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checking for bruises. It is absolutely shocking that it can

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happen in a regular house in South London. Incredible stuff, and if you

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do get a chance to see Tom Sutton's interview with the daughter it is

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very compelling. The Independent has a fascinating story. Sharia courts,

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the inside story. The world we very rarely see inside. Can I get both of

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your thoughts on this? What do you make of this lead an independent?

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Well, I am trying to have a balanced the spec if -- lead in the

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Independent. I'm not sure that the research has come at this from a

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balanced perspective. Essentially they were able to spend 15 hours

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attending hearings at the is Islamic Sharia Council in Leighton as well

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as the Birmingham Central Mosque. Through looking at these cases what

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she has determined as there are essentially two separate legal

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orders. There is the law as we know it, and then there are the Sharia

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courts operating under the shadow of the law, more based on the Koranic

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laws than your classic British law. So yes, that is my balanced overview

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of what she is saying in this story. So we have discharged the

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balanced bet. There is more you want to say about this. You have doubts

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about this. There is 15 hours of research, you don't think that's

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enough? I don't think that's enough. I think when you are

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delving... Again, I want to preface this by saying that I am a feminist,

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everyone who does mean is that I am feminist so stories like this

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automatically get my goat. I think oh my goodness, why are these Sharia

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courts in Britain locking women into marital captivity and doing nothing

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to report domestic violence? On the other hand I do think there was a

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lack of sensitivity somewhat in terms of the reporting of this

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story. And I think that... You know, we have to be very, very careful to

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recognise the intersection Audi of these women, to recognise that not

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only are they women, but they are also women of a particular race and

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at ethnicity, culture and of course religion -- intersectionality. The

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story can come across as slightly a white woman from the outside coming

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in and just saving the world and not quite reflect in all of the

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dimensions of this story. Matthew, I know you come at this from a

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slightly different angle. I suppose I should preface this by saying

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there will be those who look at this and say there is British law, that's

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it. The problem here is religious authority. If a woman is being

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abused and she goes to a judge in a Sharia Court who says you should

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stay with your husband because that is what the Koran says, she has the

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right to go to a British court to say she wants to get out of this

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marriage and that will be executed by the court. The problem is that

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they feel under a moral obligation to obey the strictures of the judge

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because they have a religious duty to do so because they are vested

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with religious truth. That is the problem here, and when it comes to

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cultural sensitivity, if somebody feels that they can't do what is in

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their interest because they are going to be going against religion,

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I don't think that there is a sensitivity issue. That is just a

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moral precept, to me. That is a bad thing. And I would like to see the

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root cause of this religion being superseded by rationality, science

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and evidence, and making a moral judgement on the basis of the issues

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rather than some cultural or religious norm that is holding women

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back. Is there a feeling, Melanie, that the papers become too hidebound

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insensitivity and don't see the truth? I don't think the papers can

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be accused of being too hidebound insensitivity! I rarely posed that

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question. I have never seen that happen. -- they are not open, but

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the Rudd people who do speak out on it. -- there are people. I think

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even if she had shared the perspective with one of those people

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than it wouldn't have looked quite so wrong. And it is very stark. It

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is not explaining the full... It doesn't even... In one hand she is

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not even respecting these women are separate entities to say, you know

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what? They want to follow the Koran, they want to follow the

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rulings of Islamic scholars. This is a choice by them, so there are

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things that we have two... She is not seeing them as independent agent

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at all. So again, she is not recognising the intersectionality.

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That is the tragedy of this. They are exercising the choice to go on

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with the assertions of a judge has found out by an independent scholar

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with more time and access to these courts than almost anybody in

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history. The tragedy as they are choosing not to leave because that

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is what the religion is telling them to do. I think that is a major

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problem. I don't think that is a positive thing, I think that is a

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bad thing. She is a self-declared atheist. At least bring in another

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perspective, someone who actually believes. It makes absolutely no

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sense to me. To another contentious point, on the front of the

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Telegraph, there are a few things but notably Brexit, and the Prime

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Minister's latest thoughts on this. If ever there is a running topic it

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is this one, isn't it? Yes, and the Telegraph as saying that Downing

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Street officials are now saying that there is only marginally better than

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a 50% chance of Cameron campaigning to stay in the EU because he is

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fearful that he is not going to get some of the reforms he is asking for

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from his fellow European leaders. Now remember, this is a tactical

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battle. In other words, he wants to raise the stakes. We are going to

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leave, it is a 50% chance unless you change your mind. I would be very

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surprised, even if Cameron doesn't get his way on migrant benefits, for

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him to campaign to leave the EU. Because he must know that EU and

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other migrants are net contributors to the Exchequer, that they add to

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economic activity. I suspect this is a gambit, a tactical move. Is this

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an economic or political debate? The two may not come together. In order

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to get what he wants from the EU is going to raise the level of

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probability in their minds that we might leave. I agree there is a

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political issue about sovereignty as well but ultimately I think it is in

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our interests to be in from a political and economic perspective.

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It was quite surprising because usually Angela Merkel and the Prime

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Minister's closest allies indicate that, and she has made it very clear

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that she opposes this plan for the denying of in work and efforts to EU

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migrants. So we will see how this goes because I do think that with

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the push out of the referendum there are going to be several

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ramifications that come out of that, not just kind of Britain's exit from

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the euro. Now, in the FT, an intriguing story about Wetherspoons

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in the FT. We have heard a few hacks over the years. This is an unlikely

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one. For several reasons. I am surprised that we haven't...

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Probably because of all the other things that have gone on this week

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it has slipped to the bottom of the list. So Wetherspoons, one of the

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biggest pub groups in the UK, has suffered an attack. 656,723

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customers. So that is four times as much as the TalkTalk hack in

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October. I remember the day when we were doing the news here TalkTalk

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was all over the papers, however this has affected four times as much

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and is actually down at the bottom. That is not the funniest part about

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it. The funniest part is that they received an e-mail. So the Chief

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Executive receives an e-mail saying you have been hacked. And then the

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spam filters, the company's spam filters catch it. So they receive an

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e-mail on six November and it is only that the Financial Times had to

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go back and reported to them, and tell them that you have been hacked,

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you received this e-mail. That is quite funny. That has got to be the

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definition of technological irony, when your security prevents you

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learning you have been hacked. It makes us realise we are all quite

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vulnerable. I worry about my capacity to protect my own

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information. When you give your information to a big corporate that

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are super sophisticated and have teams in quitting your information

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but they are still had, that worries me even more. But it is an arms

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race, isn't it? Between the security people who want to sell their

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software at the protect the information on the hackers were just

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a sophisticated. And this is a story that is just going to keep going. I

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don't think it will ever go away. There is not going to be a silver

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bullet that stops hacking. I didn't even know you could buy from

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Wetherspoons online. TalkTalk I kind of understood. I think it was to be

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with people who had bought online vouchers. There we are. No one is

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safe. I'm not sure how many people buy online vouchers. 656,723. When

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they first announced that it was about 100 so somewhere along the

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line it has got a lot bigger. Going back to the Telegraph, plastic bags.

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Who wants to kick us off on plastic bags? Do you have a strong opinion

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on this one? I love a stick, I love the charge on plastic bags. And so

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the story is fantastic. What it is it is saying is, results are in,

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especially from focusing on Tesco. The 5p charge cuts shoppers' plastic

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bag used by four fifths. In less than two months, Tesco customers

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used 78% fewer plastic bags. We've got a minute left. The plight

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of Kenneth Women's. The diarist to rival Papys. Rightly being compared

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with Papys. -- Pepys. One of the lines read out was in walking

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through London, a time when being out and being gay was very

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difficult, surrounded by fans and admirers and yet feeling desperately

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lonely. It is a cliche, the mask of the comedian and the loneliness

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within, and he articulate it with an acuteness that is devastating. For

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those who have never read them, they are extraordinary pieces of

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literature. We are out of time. It was a humdinger. Humdinger! Great

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word. Thank you both for your company. That is it for the papers.

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Coming up next,

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