28/02/2016 The Papers


28/02/2016

A lively, informed and in-depth conversation about the Sunday papers.


Similar Content

Browse content similar to 28/02/2016. Check below for episodes and series from the same categories and more!

Transcript


LineFromTo

That's all the sport, now The Papers.

:00:00.:00:19.

Welcome to the Sunday morning edition of the Papers. With me are

:00:20.:00:25.

Nigel Nelson and Vincent Moss. The Sunday Times reports that

:00:26.:00:27.

David Cameron is at threat of a leadership challenge

:00:28.:00:29.

even if Britain votes to stay The introduction in the House

:00:30.:00:32.

of Commons this week of the Government's Investigatory

:00:33.:00:35.

Powers Bill is the Independent The Observer has an interview

:00:36.:00:37.

with the Europe Minister David Lidington - who says Britain voting

:00:38.:00:42.

to leave the EU would spark a decade The Sunday Express leads

:00:43.:00:45.

with a survey suggesting 25 out of the 28 EU member states feel

:00:46.:00:49.

"negatively" about the future And sticking with the EU debate,

:00:50.:00:51.

the Mail reports on divisions within the Conservative party -

:00:52.:00:57.

with reports of the Foreign Secretary Philip Hammond clashing

:00:58.:00:59.

with his Eurosceptic Let's begin. It is all Europe, all

:01:00.:01:13.

the time. We will find some other things to talk about. The Sunday

:01:14.:01:18.

Times, Tory threat to oust PM after the EU vote, win or lose, Cameron

:01:19.:01:24.

faces challenge? Well, I think he very definitely is out if he is

:01:25.:01:28.

losing the referendum. This is the kind of stuff we will hear a lot

:01:29.:01:32.

about over the next 100 days. I don't think it is very likely that

:01:33.:01:37.

Tory MPs would be in a mood, then, to get rid of Cameron after he has

:01:38.:01:42.

won the vote. It seems to me that it could not work. At these kind of

:01:43.:01:46.

scare stories, if you do this, we are going to get you, this kind of

:01:47.:01:51.

stuff, there will be a lot of this. Project Fear twice over? The story

:01:52.:01:57.

is based on an unnamed backbencher who says even if he wins, if he

:01:58.:02:01.

carries on like this, there will be no problem getting the 50 names

:02:02.:02:04.

required for a leadership challenge. Some Conservative MPs I speak to

:02:05.:02:09.

never liked him and would like to see the back of him. If there is a

:02:10.:02:15.

challenge with the Reid if he wins is unlikely, but David has already

:02:16.:02:20.

said he's going in 2020. If you have a new election that needs to be

:02:21.:02:23.

fought, many people would quite rightly say we want a new leader to

:02:24.:02:27.

set out his temper late. At some point between the European

:02:28.:02:31.

referendum on the 2020 election, it is likely, in my view, that he will

:02:32.:02:36.

go. They are really just arguing about the timing of when. Do any of

:02:37.:02:40.

you think this will be never-ending, even if they stay in? You have

:02:41.:02:47.

spoken to Conservative MPs saying it is not going to stop even if we

:02:48.:02:50.

lose, because we feel strongly about it, this is a core issue? The

:02:51.:02:55.

trouble with too many Tories is that it has become an obsession, almost

:02:56.:02:59.

an illness. So, whatever happens, they will agitate. I can see that

:03:00.:03:11.

going on. In or out, I think we have to abide by that. At the very least,

:03:12.:03:16.

you are talking about a generation. The last referendum was 1975, I

:03:17.:03:19.

would imagine a similar time to elapse before another one. In

:03:20.:03:26.

Scotland, they want one a year later? How is that going? The

:03:27.:03:32.

Telegraph have almost the reverse of that story, they can sack me, Iain

:03:33.:03:36.

Duncan Smith, but Europe goes over everything, we are bound to this

:03:37.:03:39.

ship sailing perilously close to the rocks. They voted to leave is a

:03:40.:03:47.

gamble, says the Prime Minister. The two sides and Eurosceptics fearing

:03:48.:03:50.

they might be purged? The interesting thing is Iain Duncan

:03:51.:03:54.

Smith's point, the real challenge, that he has a constitutional right

:03:55.:03:59.

to get hold of Cabinet papers as a secretary of state, which is true.

:04:00.:04:02.

This story particularly shows the absolute muddle about allowing

:04:03.:04:12.

Cabinet ministers to campaign as they wish. It was always going to be

:04:13.:04:17.

impossible. The civil service have to obey the government line. Iain

:04:18.:04:21.

Duncan Smith makes the point that he might need, as the day job, to get

:04:22.:04:26.

hold of figures on EU migration, who is getting benefits, are they going

:04:27.:04:31.

to deny him that? Sorry, the department says you can't have that

:04:32.:04:36.

because it impinges on the EU. Sir Humphrey, or Sir Jeremy, taking the

:04:37.:04:40.

view, as I understand, that the Government line, it goes to the

:04:41.:04:43.

government, but if he is opposing the government line on this, he does

:04:44.:04:50.

not get it? That is my point, who makes the decision? If the Secretary

:04:51.:04:53.

of State is calling for Cabinet papers, clearly, it was never going

:04:54.:04:58.

to work by saying Cabinet ministers can campaign against the Government.

:04:59.:05:02.

That was the mistake he made. Maybe the cartoon get it right, mods and

:05:03.:05:08.

rockers in Brighton, I hear gangs of Tory Eurosceptics and Europhiles are

:05:09.:05:14.

coming here for a fight? The point they are making is that top civil

:05:15.:05:18.

servant Jeremy Heywood is going to be summoned before a committee where

:05:19.:05:21.

he will have to explain this position where they might not be

:05:22.:05:25.

able to see papers they feel are relevant. The interesting thing

:05:26.:05:28.

about Iain Duncan Smith, they can sack me if my face no longer fits,

:05:29.:05:32.

that is the other issue after the referendum. With these five Cabinet

:05:33.:05:36.

ministers plus the employment minister, Priti Patel, what happens

:05:37.:05:40.

to them? Are they purged in what the Telegraph refers to as a revenge

:05:41.:05:44.

reshuffle? Or do you have what other people are calling for, a unity

:05:45.:05:50.

reshuffle and keep them in? You think whoever wins it would be

:05:51.:05:53.

unwise for the future of the Conservative Party to purge people

:05:54.:05:58.

you don't get on with straightaway? True, but I don't think the

:05:59.:06:01.

Conservative Party are worrying about who is in the Cabinet. If they

:06:02.:06:06.

felt so strongly about it, against an official government position,

:06:07.:06:10.

what you do is you quit. The Observer has a different take,

:06:11.:06:15.

Brexit would start decade of economic limbo, says top Tory. Boris

:06:16.:06:20.

Johnson in U-turn over second vote, he says they could get better terms

:06:21.:06:29.

if there was a second vote, now he's saying out is out? Almost

:06:30.:06:33.

self-evident. We are back to the confusion. The idea that you could

:06:34.:06:36.

actually vote out in a referendum to stay in Europe was just ludicrous.

:06:37.:06:43.

Clearly, Alt must mean out. You can't start playing around with the

:06:44.:06:47.

referendums and things like that. The interesting thing about the

:06:48.:06:50.

Observer story is that we have the Europe minister coming out on this

:06:51.:06:55.

one. The trouble is, we are not really dealing with core, basic

:06:56.:07:02.

issues, people want to know, how will it affect my job, wages,

:07:03.:07:07.

working conditions, schools, health. At the moment, the people arguing

:07:08.:07:11.

seemed to be arguing up there somewhere, without getting down to

:07:12.:07:16.

what ordinary families want to know. An interesting point. When you hear

:07:17.:07:21.

yesterday the G20 came out and said, we think it would be disastrous for

:07:22.:07:25.

the world economy, a shock, that is what the communique said, this

:07:26.:07:29.

involves China, the United States, the IMF, people Britain might ask to

:07:30.:07:33.

do certain things, but could not tell them this is their view, do you

:07:34.:07:37.

think voters care about what the G20 think or what the economists think?

:07:38.:07:42.

Not too much. The idea that other world leaders come out for somebody

:07:43.:07:47.

in their cosy club of 20 leaders is not a great surprise, neither is it

:07:48.:07:51.

a surprise that David Lidington, the Europe minister, comes out in favour

:07:52.:07:54.

of Europe! But he is making the point that it has become the mantra

:07:55.:07:59.

of the in campaign, it is all about job security, it would be really

:08:00.:08:03.

hard to negotiate trade deals, the truth is nobody ever knows. It is

:08:04.:08:08.

the control experiment. If you are not running contrasting scenarios,

:08:09.:08:10.

if we come out of Europe, will it get harder to get trade deals than

:08:11.:08:15.

when we were in, we will never know the answer. Europe turns against the

:08:16.:08:21.

EU, fresh boost for exit campaigns as strong anti-Brussels feelings in

:08:22.:08:29.

24 out of 25 countries. You could say there is a degree of

:08:30.:08:33.

Euroscepticism in Europe and Turner to Mr Cameron's Brundage, saying we

:08:34.:08:37.

are not alone, we can continue to reform Europe if we stay in? Also

:08:38.:08:44.

when you look at the figures, Greece is pretty upset about it. Greece is

:08:45.:08:49.

having a huge problem with refugees. Europe is trying to seal them off.

:08:50.:08:53.

You can understand that the ordinary people in Greece will be incredibly

:08:54.:08:57.

Euro sceptic about something like that. Migration becomes a major

:08:58.:09:02.

issue in many countries, people are worried about it. The scepticism is

:09:03.:09:07.

not to be unexpected. Shall we move on? Page seven, also, we have spoken

:09:08.:09:15.

about what has been an intra- Conservative fight, that is the has

:09:16.:09:22.

been presented. Sturgeon and Corbyn revive the spirit of the 1980s at

:09:23.:09:28.

the Trident protest. A lot of people protested yesterday. Again, this is

:09:29.:09:30.

something that has been going on for generations. Quite small, in

:09:31.:09:36.

comparison to 25 years ago? I think so. It was supposed to be the

:09:37.:09:40.

biggest march for a generation. The Observer have used an impressive

:09:41.:09:43.

picture of the march, where it looks like there are lots of people. At

:09:44.:09:47.

the aerial shots of Trafalgar Square, it looks like no more than

:09:48.:09:51.

5000 people. Some of those might have been bemused tourists that

:09:52.:09:55.

wandered in. It did look a very small scale event. I don't think it

:09:56.:10:01.

was particularly dramatic. If you would think the Labour leadership

:10:02.:10:04.

would want to be revelling in disarray at the Conservative Party

:10:05.:10:08.

over Europe, yet again, tearing itself apart, you would think they

:10:09.:10:10.

would want to focus on core issues like housing and employment.

:10:11.:10:14.

Instead, they are having an arcane argument, to the vast majority of

:10:15.:10:18.

the population, about whether or not a nuclear deterrent is needed at

:10:19.:10:25.

some time in the future. Nicola Sturgeon made that argument,

:10:26.:10:28.

yesterday, she said we were promised more austerity by the Chancellor,

:10:29.:10:33.

why are we spending... The figures might change, whatever it is, but

:10:34.:10:39.

she did try to connect the dots? She did. It was quite right Nicola

:10:40.:10:42.

Sturgeon should be there. Her party has actually got a position on

:10:43.:10:47.

Trident, to get rid of it. Jeremy Corbyn's party has not. I think he

:10:48.:10:52.

ought to accept he is Labour Leader now, not just simply a backbencher,

:10:53.:10:57.

perhaps it would have been wise not to turn up. He didn't say anything

:10:58.:11:02.

controversial, it was completely anodyne, but perhaps he should not

:11:03.:11:05.

have done it. The Sunday Times, charity 's chief clamps down on

:11:06.:11:11.

chuggers. Charities have got bad press recently for various things.

:11:12.:11:17.

They are saying, William Shawcross, from the Charities Commission, it

:11:18.:11:21.

cannot be right for vulnerable and older people to be hounded through

:11:22.:11:25.

the telephone, through the letterbox and on the street? Politicians will

:11:26.:11:29.

be delighted charities are taking some of the heat, to some extent. An

:11:30.:11:33.

important speech by the charity chief. It is not just chuggers, also

:11:34.:11:38.

the direct mail, the pressure calls. It has got to a point where many

:11:39.:11:41.

people cannot be stopped for legitimate reasons on the streets,

:11:42.:11:47.

not saying charities are illegitimate, you are very wary of

:11:48.:11:50.

stopping in the street because somebody is probably going to ask

:11:51.:11:53.

you not just for a few quid to put in a bucket, but to commit for

:11:54.:11:57.

months or years through direct debit to a charity. It has become a

:11:58.:12:03.

problem. I think charities are going to have to think about realigning

:12:04.:12:06.

the way they behave. You are not surprised? I am totally with

:12:07.:12:12.

Vincent. I object hugely to aggressive charity collecting. I

:12:13.:12:18.

think it is appalling that charities do commercial deals with companies

:12:19.:12:21.

to offer credit cards or energy tariffs and whatever, especially

:12:22.:12:25.

when they are not the best rate for people. All of these things should

:12:26.:12:31.

be banned. Charity giving should be absolutely voluntary. You should

:12:32.:12:34.

want to do it, not be cajoled into doing it. The Sunday Telegraph story

:12:35.:12:42.

was interesting. Shops row unites churches. It is unsurprising that

:12:43.:12:45.

churches want to keep Sunday and Sunday. But for some businesses,

:12:46.:12:52.

they say, what you do is you get on Amazon, do something online, get a

:12:53.:12:57.

delivery, we can't compete? Probably, the church is about 30

:12:58.:13:01.

years now out of date with the argument. This was the kind of

:13:02.:13:04.

battle we had when Sunday trading first came in. It was very much on

:13:05.:13:09.

these lines, keeping Sunday special, whether or not people would be

:13:10.:13:14.

forced to work on Sunday, we have moved on. Personally, nobody should

:13:15.:13:18.

be forced to work on a Sunday. However, that is the way things are.

:13:19.:13:24.

I think the church are whistling in the dark. We appear to be working on

:13:25.:13:32.

Sunday! But we volunteered. Even the shops themselves are split, they

:13:33.:13:36.

don't know if profits will go up. There is a slight effort of the

:13:37.:13:39.

government trying to look like it is doing something. The Europe story,

:13:40.:13:43.

going back to that, there is a legislative logjam. There is very

:13:44.:13:47.

little happening. You might say there is little happening most of

:13:48.:13:51.

the time in Parliament! Now, actually, I thought this was an

:13:52.:13:55.

interesting story in the Observer. Finding it hard to get a ticket for

:13:56.:13:59.

a Dell? There is one on sale for just ?24,000! We complain about

:14:00.:14:11.

football tickets? -- Adele. This is appalling, the idea it can be sold

:14:12.:14:16.

for above its cover price. There are people in Parliament, Sharon

:14:17.:14:19.

Hodgson, the Labour MP, chair of the all-party ticket group, she said

:14:20.:14:23.

there has to be legislation. Of course there has. It should be

:14:24.:14:29.

illegal to sell any ticket above the list price. What you discover with

:14:30.:14:34.

something that is within minutes all the tickets have gone. They have

:14:35.:14:41.

been taken by touts. Adele has campaigned against it, Elton John

:14:42.:14:45.

has. There is a general feeling from the industry and the public that it

:14:46.:14:48.

should be stopped. To be blunt about it, she doesn't get the ?24,000. She

:14:49.:14:54.

is not short of cash, but it goes to some... There might be an element of

:14:55.:15:02.

that, it is still a rip-off. If you can't go to a concert for a

:15:03.:15:06.

legitimate reason, you can put it on a website and sell it for pretty

:15:07.:15:10.

much cost price. That takes them out of the market, the touts. We are

:15:11.:15:14.

going to see more and more of this. The demand to see live music, live

:15:15.:15:19.

shows, it increases as people know you can get music online. Think it

:15:20.:15:23.

is going to be made illegal, there is enough agitation in Parliament to

:15:24.:15:28.

do something. It might be something like pulling the parties together?

:15:29.:15:33.

Yes, after Europe, that will be the argument! Thanks to Nigel and

:15:34.:15:41.

Vincent. We take a look at tomorrow's from pages every evening

:15:42.:15:46.

at 10:30pm and 11:30pm here on BBC News.

:15:47.:15:48.

Download Subtitles

SRT

ASS