28/02/2016 The Papers


28/02/2016

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That's all the sport, now The Papers.

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Welcome to the Sunday morning edition of the Papers. With me are

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Nigel Nelson and Vincent Moss. The Sunday Times reports that

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David Cameron is at threat of a leadership challenge

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even if Britain votes to stay The introduction in the House

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of Commons this week of the Government's Investigatory

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Powers Bill is the Independent The Observer has an interview

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with the Europe Minister David Lidington - who says Britain voting

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to leave the EU would spark a decade The Sunday Express leads

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with a survey suggesting 25 out of the 28 EU member states feel

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"negatively" about the future And sticking with the EU debate,

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the Mail reports on divisions within the Conservative party -

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with reports of the Foreign Secretary Philip Hammond clashing

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with his Eurosceptic Let's begin. It is all Europe, all

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the time. We will find some other things to talk about. The Sunday

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Times, Tory threat to oust PM after the EU vote, win or lose, Cameron

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faces challenge? Well, I think he very definitely is out if he is

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losing the referendum. This is the kind of stuff we will hear a lot

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about over the next 100 days. I don't think it is very likely that

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Tory MPs would be in a mood, then, to get rid of Cameron after he has

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won the vote. It seems to me that it could not work. At these kind of

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scare stories, if you do this, we are going to get you, this kind of

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stuff, there will be a lot of this. Project Fear twice over? The story

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is based on an unnamed backbencher who says even if he wins, if he

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carries on like this, there will be no problem getting the 50 names

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required for a leadership challenge. Some Conservative MPs I speak to

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never liked him and would like to see the back of him. If there is a

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challenge with the Reid if he wins is unlikely, but David has already

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said he's going in 2020. If you have a new election that needs to be

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fought, many people would quite rightly say we want a new leader to

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set out his temper late. At some point between the European

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referendum on the 2020 election, it is likely, in my view, that he will

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go. They are really just arguing about the timing of when. Do any of

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you think this will be never-ending, even if they stay in? You have

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spoken to Conservative MPs saying it is not going to stop even if we

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lose, because we feel strongly about it, this is a core issue? The

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trouble with too many Tories is that it has become an obsession, almost

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an illness. So, whatever happens, they will agitate. I can see that

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going on. In or out, I think we have to abide by that. At the very least,

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you are talking about a generation. The last referendum was 1975, I

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would imagine a similar time to elapse before another one. In

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Scotland, they want one a year later? How is that going? The

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Telegraph have almost the reverse of that story, they can sack me, Iain

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Duncan Smith, but Europe goes over everything, we are bound to this

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ship sailing perilously close to the rocks. They voted to leave is a

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gamble, says the Prime Minister. The two sides and Eurosceptics fearing

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they might be purged? The interesting thing is Iain Duncan

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Smith's point, the real challenge, that he has a constitutional right

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to get hold of Cabinet papers as a secretary of state, which is true.

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This story particularly shows the absolute muddle about allowing

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Cabinet ministers to campaign as they wish. It was always going to be

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impossible. The civil service have to obey the government line. Iain

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Duncan Smith makes the point that he might need, as the day job, to get

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hold of figures on EU migration, who is getting benefits, are they going

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to deny him that? Sorry, the department says you can't have that

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because it impinges on the EU. Sir Humphrey, or Sir Jeremy, taking the

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view, as I understand, that the Government line, it goes to the

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government, but if he is opposing the government line on this, he does

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not get it? That is my point, who makes the decision? If the Secretary

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of State is calling for Cabinet papers, clearly, it was never going

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to work by saying Cabinet ministers can campaign against the Government.

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That was the mistake he made. Maybe the cartoon get it right, mods and

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rockers in Brighton, I hear gangs of Tory Eurosceptics and Europhiles are

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coming here for a fight? The point they are making is that top civil

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servant Jeremy Heywood is going to be summoned before a committee where

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he will have to explain this position where they might not be

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able to see papers they feel are relevant. The interesting thing

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about Iain Duncan Smith, they can sack me if my face no longer fits,

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that is the other issue after the referendum. With these five Cabinet

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ministers plus the employment minister, Priti Patel, what happens

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to them? Are they purged in what the Telegraph refers to as a revenge

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reshuffle? Or do you have what other people are calling for, a unity

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reshuffle and keep them in? You think whoever wins it would be

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unwise for the future of the Conservative Party to purge people

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you don't get on with straightaway? True, but I don't think the

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Conservative Party are worrying about who is in the Cabinet. If they

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felt so strongly about it, against an official government position,

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what you do is you quit. The Observer has a different take,

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Brexit would start decade of economic limbo, says top Tory. Boris

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Johnson in U-turn over second vote, he says they could get better terms

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if there was a second vote, now he's saying out is out? Almost

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self-evident. We are back to the confusion. The idea that you could

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actually vote out in a referendum to stay in Europe was just ludicrous.

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Clearly, Alt must mean out. You can't start playing around with the

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referendums and things like that. The interesting thing about the

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Observer story is that we have the Europe minister coming out on this

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one. The trouble is, we are not really dealing with core, basic

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issues, people want to know, how will it affect my job, wages,

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working conditions, schools, health. At the moment, the people arguing

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seemed to be arguing up there somewhere, without getting down to

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what ordinary families want to know. An interesting point. When you hear

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yesterday the G20 came out and said, we think it would be disastrous for

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the world economy, a shock, that is what the communique said, this

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involves China, the United States, the IMF, people Britain might ask to

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do certain things, but could not tell them this is their view, do you

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think voters care about what the G20 think or what the economists think?

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Not too much. The idea that other world leaders come out for somebody

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in their cosy club of 20 leaders is not a great surprise, neither is it

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a surprise that David Lidington, the Europe minister, comes out in favour

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of Europe! But he is making the point that it has become the mantra

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of the in campaign, it is all about job security, it would be really

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hard to negotiate trade deals, the truth is nobody ever knows. It is

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the control experiment. If you are not running contrasting scenarios,

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if we come out of Europe, will it get harder to get trade deals than

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when we were in, we will never know the answer. Europe turns against the

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EU, fresh boost for exit campaigns as strong anti-Brussels feelings in

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24 out of 25 countries. You could say there is a degree of

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Euroscepticism in Europe and Turner to Mr Cameron's Brundage, saying we

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are not alone, we can continue to reform Europe if we stay in? Also

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when you look at the figures, Greece is pretty upset about it. Greece is

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having a huge problem with refugees. Europe is trying to seal them off.

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You can understand that the ordinary people in Greece will be incredibly

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Euro sceptic about something like that. Migration becomes a major

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issue in many countries, people are worried about it. The scepticism is

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not to be unexpected. Shall we move on? Page seven, also, we have spoken

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about what has been an intra- Conservative fight, that is the has

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been presented. Sturgeon and Corbyn revive the spirit of the 1980s at

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the Trident protest. A lot of people protested yesterday. Again, this is

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something that has been going on for generations. Quite small, in

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comparison to 25 years ago? I think so. It was supposed to be the

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biggest march for a generation. The Observer have used an impressive

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picture of the march, where it looks like there are lots of people. At

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the aerial shots of Trafalgar Square, it looks like no more than

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5000 people. Some of those might have been bemused tourists that

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wandered in. It did look a very small scale event. I don't think it

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was particularly dramatic. If you would think the Labour leadership

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would want to be revelling in disarray at the Conservative Party

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over Europe, yet again, tearing itself apart, you would think they

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would want to focus on core issues like housing and employment.

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Instead, they are having an arcane argument, to the vast majority of

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the population, about whether or not a nuclear deterrent is needed at

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some time in the future. Nicola Sturgeon made that argument,

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yesterday, she said we were promised more austerity by the Chancellor,

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why are we spending... The figures might change, whatever it is, but

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she did try to connect the dots? She did. It was quite right Nicola

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Sturgeon should be there. Her party has actually got a position on

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Trident, to get rid of it. Jeremy Corbyn's party has not. I think he

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ought to accept he is Labour Leader now, not just simply a backbencher,

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perhaps it would have been wise not to turn up. He didn't say anything

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controversial, it was completely anodyne, but perhaps he should not

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have done it. The Sunday Times, charity 's chief clamps down on

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chuggers. Charities have got bad press recently for various things.

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They are saying, William Shawcross, from the Charities Commission, it

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cannot be right for vulnerable and older people to be hounded through

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the telephone, through the letterbox and on the street? Politicians will

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be delighted charities are taking some of the heat, to some extent. An

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important speech by the charity chief. It is not just chuggers, also

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the direct mail, the pressure calls. It has got to a point where many

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people cannot be stopped for legitimate reasons on the streets,

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not saying charities are illegitimate, you are very wary of

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stopping in the street because somebody is probably going to ask

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you not just for a few quid to put in a bucket, but to commit for

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months or years through direct debit to a charity. It has become a

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problem. I think charities are going to have to think about realigning

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the way they behave. You are not surprised? I am totally with

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Vincent. I object hugely to aggressive charity collecting. I

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think it is appalling that charities do commercial deals with companies

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to offer credit cards or energy tariffs and whatever, especially

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when they are not the best rate for people. All of these things should

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be banned. Charity giving should be absolutely voluntary. You should

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want to do it, not be cajoled into doing it. The Sunday Telegraph story

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was interesting. Shops row unites churches. It is unsurprising that

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churches want to keep Sunday and Sunday. But for some businesses,

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they say, what you do is you get on Amazon, do something online, get a

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delivery, we can't compete? Probably, the church is about 30

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years now out of date with the argument. This was the kind of

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battle we had when Sunday trading first came in. It was very much on

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these lines, keeping Sunday special, whether or not people would be

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forced to work on Sunday, we have moved on. Personally, nobody should

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be forced to work on a Sunday. However, that is the way things are.

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I think the church are whistling in the dark. We appear to be working on

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Sunday! But we volunteered. Even the shops themselves are split, they

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don't know if profits will go up. There is a slight effort of the

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government trying to look like it is doing something. The Europe story,

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going back to that, there is a legislative logjam. There is very

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little happening. You might say there is little happening most of

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the time in Parliament! Now, actually, I thought this was an

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interesting story in the Observer. Finding it hard to get a ticket for

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a Dell? There is one on sale for just ?24,000! We complain about

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football tickets? -- Adele. This is appalling, the idea it can be sold

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for above its cover price. There are people in Parliament, Sharon

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Hodgson, the Labour MP, chair of the all-party ticket group, she said

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there has to be legislation. Of course there has. It should be

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illegal to sell any ticket above the list price. What you discover with

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something that is within minutes all the tickets have gone. They have

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been taken by touts. Adele has campaigned against it, Elton John

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has. There is a general feeling from the industry and the public that it

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should be stopped. To be blunt about it, she doesn't get the ?24,000. She

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is not short of cash, but it goes to some... There might be an element of

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that, it is still a rip-off. If you can't go to a concert for a

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legitimate reason, you can put it on a website and sell it for pretty

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much cost price. That takes them out of the market, the touts. We are

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going to see more and more of this. The demand to see live music, live

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shows, it increases as people know you can get music online. Think it

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is going to be made illegal, there is enough agitation in Parliament to

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do something. It might be something like pulling the parties together?

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Yes, after Europe, that will be the argument! Thanks to Nigel and

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Vincent. We take a look at tomorrow's from pages every evening

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at 10:30pm and 11:30pm here on BBC News.

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