24/04/2016 The Papers


24/04/2016

A lively, informed and in-depth conversation about the Sunday papers.


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Hello and welcome to our Sunday morning edition of The Papers.

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With me are Jenny Anderson, author and reporter for Quartz.com,

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and Martin Bentham, Home Affairs Editor at The Standard.

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Let's take a look at what the papers are saying.

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The Observer reports that US presidential hopeful Hillary Clinton

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shares Barack Obama's opposition to the UK leaving the EU.

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The Mail leads on Boris Johnson's anger at Mr Obama's intervention

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The Sunday Telegraph says pregnant women are among those whose hospital

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treatment has been postponed ahead of the first all-out

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The Sunday Times reports that this year the super-rich have suffered

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the worst decline in their fortunes since the financial crisis.

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The Independent carries a photo of one of the many events to mark

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the 400th anniversary of Shakespeare's death.

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Its main story is about a hospital in Lancashire asking

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The Sunday Express says that cold calling firms could face fines of up

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And the Sunday Mirror has a photograph of what it says

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are the ashes of the singer Prince being carried to a car

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It has been the worst week for the Brexit campaign. Absolutely. We had

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Boris Johnson channelling his inner Donald Trump vaguely racist comments

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about Barack Obama and completely fabricated facts about the busts. We

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had PMQ and David Cameron did a great job, and President Obama

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stayed the demand that everything would be just fine if Britain were

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to leave the EU in terms of trade with the US. What did you make of

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it, particularly Boris Johnson because various papers have given

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him a hammering. The Winston Churchill bust. There are real

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issues of substance facing the British people and he goes on about

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whether the Churchill bust was or was not removed by Barack Obama. It

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is a classic bit of Boris hyperbole. The actual explanation is rather

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different, that Churchill is still very close and just making room for

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Martin Luther King. It is a classic bit of Boris hyperbole, that maybe

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some of what he said around the edges he would regret, but I suppose

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his key point remains that it is about sovereignty and Barack Obama

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of physique has a perfect right to say what he wants to say about what

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he thinks the impact would be, but Boris disagrees with that and he

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believes that our ability to control our personal affairs is the main

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thing. He has dressed it up in the usual way with lots of colour and

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examples which are somewhat over the top, but the argument remains the

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same. Interestingly, they took the debate away from immigration, which

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is where I think the Brexit campaign has a good case to make. There was a

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strong case made earlier this week about immigration, but the whole

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debate became economics and trade, and in that sense we are saying this

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is the worst week ever. Were you surprised that a president was so

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clear about this? Foreign leaders, generally, don't interfere when

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there is an election or referendum. Not only did he say back of the

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queue, but in a BBC interview he said it could take five or ten years

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because trade deals, and he is right about this, are very complicated so

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they can take a long time if there is no particular will to push ahead.

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I am surprised that the US batted in, but actually I am not surprised!

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This is a consequential debate and the US would be silly to not weigh

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in. If you imagine the outcome, say Britain leaves and there are

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problems, everyone would turn to the US and ask why they said nothing. It

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is damp if they do, dammed if you don't scenario, but I think he has a

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right to say your decision, but here is our opinion, and by the way we

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are and important factor in this decision because the exit campaign

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has really stated everything will be fine if we stay in, but Obama wanted

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to say what we think about this agreement. I think actually the idea

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that we turn around to the US and say, why did you not help us? I

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disagree with that. I think people don't expect anyone else to help us

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out, so to speak. Going back to the point you just made about Barack

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Obama, I think he did speak more robust than was expected, even on

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his own side. Today, he has slightly changed his tune. He's said five or

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ten years, not quite the back of the queue, but at the same time there is

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not an EU trade deal at the moment. He has been there for eight years

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and there has not yet been won. There is potentially going to be

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one, although the US president candidates have all expressed

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reservations about various aspects of it. In the spread of history,

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even five or ten years, if we are fighting about something, in the

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last vote it was 50 years ago, even if it does take some time to

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achieve, the balance them is between the economic price that that might

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cause us, although some would argue there isn't one, against the issue

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of sovereignty and democratic control. Part of the argument also

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raised is that he is not quite a has-been but he is on his way out.

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But Hillary Clinton's intervention, or at least to a senior staff

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member, suggests she is slightly more likely thought to be the next

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president of the US, we don't know what number Trump would do if he

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became the American President, let's not go down that road just now, but

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she is saying something similar, isn't she? Not surprising. With your

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experience of Washington, certainly in my eight years I never met a

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senior American politician who thought it would be a great idea for

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Britain to leave. I have never met anyone who would disagree with what

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President Obama said. There are two components to this. One is that they

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don't have any sense as to what some of the frustrations are because, as

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you say, from the hypocritical point they don't know, they have quite a

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bit of sovereignty and they exercise it quite aggressively all the time.

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For them to say, you know, that is the conventional wisdom but very few

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people have a sense of some of the frustrations of being part of that

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kind of block. Could we move on to the mail was my great take on this

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story, Boris rage at ridiculous we had a Obama. Extort restatement --

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extraordinary statement. Inside page 29, Andrew Gibson, the biographer of

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Boris Johnson, says after that stinging slap down, it begs the

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question, has Obamacare busted Boris? It is quite a clever

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headline. What do you make of this? To go back to the issues of

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substance, when you have got somebody who is at least seem to be

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the figurehead of a campaign, and who is talking about a bust of the

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leader of the inactive state being half Kenyan and him being irrelevant

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and so on, where is the real issues of substance are not, according to

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some of his people on his side, being addressed. It is not doing

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very well? No, I think there is a fair criticism there, if you look at

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Michael Gove, for example, he takes the same view as Boris Johnson about

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the fundamental issue and he has been more measured in his comments,

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although he did give a speech this week in that direction. If you are

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looking at it through the prism of who is going to be the next

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Conservative leader, some people think that Boris Johnson, and the

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fact that he took a long time to decide which way he was going to

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jump on this, some people see it as he is positioning himself to take

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over from David Cameron, and that is why he has taken this position. If

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you look at it through this prism, and then you think actually he is

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indulging in cheap shots, which is the allegation, that is not very

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statesman-like, and that therefore could be damaging. I think there is

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something in that. Of course, those who favour his arguments will

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probably not be too worried about that, but in the middle ground of

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the Tory party, if it exists at all in this area, it might lead people

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to question whether he is sufficiently dramatic. What did you

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make of it because again there is a case that he is making, which was

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right at the very start of our discussions here, George Osborne

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made a comment about suggesting that this is not a joke, you can't treat

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this lightly, it is such a serious matter, and he did not mention Boris

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Johnson macro shot. Him saying actually on this issue he is a

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lightweight, he does not argue the substance of the issues. He does and

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there is plenty to argue on the substance. There is so much in there

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with trade, immigration, the economy, sovereignty. There is a lot

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to work with here, and to go down this road when there is this

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caricature running for president of the United States and everyone here

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making fun of him, to assume that mantle of trivialising things,

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making things up, insulting comments, bringing the level of

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civil discourse down quite a bit, I think he has damaged itself quite a

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bit. To be fair to him, he has also focused, he has been quoted in the

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Mail on Sunday, nobody has come close to answering my point, the US

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is commenting on something they were themselves would never dream of

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doing. He does address that, but... But do you think that argument is

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actually cutting through question or even Barack Obama's argue at cutting

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through? The question is, does any of this matter? This visit and this

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argument, does he have a right to make a case question mark the

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question is, does it matter? He has a right to make a case, and it

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probably does matter to an extent in that you have had George Osborne

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this week saying, because the strongest argument is the economic

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one, and the rest of it is not as strong, national-security, there may

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be a marginal benefit to remaining in, but I think it is fairly

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marginal will stop on the immigration thing, it is a key issue

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for some come about on trade and the economy, that is the strongest

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weapon. I think actually when you have got George Osborne and the

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government saying it repeatedly saying it officially, and then you

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have got the president of the United States coming in, there has been a

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lot of coverage of it, and I think that will affect some people, and

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that is the way that most people who vote stay in. I think they will be

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scared of the potential negative consequences, and it is all about

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the point of view of the Remain people think that there is too much

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of a risk economic league. I don't think they will lose, but that is

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what they will lose if they can't win that battle. There are two

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months to go and then I will be so many more reports coming out. He is

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a lame duck president, but a lot can happen in two months. This is an

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emotional issue. People will base their decision on some facts, but

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mainly on emotion. Facts completed beyond the control of any

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politician, for example a terrorist attack or boats coming across. Yes,

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people will vote based on how they feel that day. One other point about

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what was said here, she speech yesterday where he talked about

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rejecting cynicism and encouraging the young to engage in politics, I

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fully agree with that, people should get involved and take part. But if

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young people in this country listen to that message and actually them

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vote in the referendum, most opinion polls show the young are more likely

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to vote in favour, though funnily enough it could have an impact that

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way! That is a good point. The express says Obama bully boy tactics

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and we have already touched on that. That could backfire. Let's move on

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to the Sunday Times Rich list. There are two views about which lists. One

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says it is fantastic because it sells newspapers, but the other is

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and I am a bit like this, I hate stories like this. I find it really

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boring. I am going to have two side with the editor of the Times and say

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run the list, get the readers. Dirty pleasures, right? If this is your

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worst vice. One of them. What did you make of it. The poor rich are

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poorer than they were before, but they are still extremely rich. Let

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me find my very small violin. The numbers are still staggering, and

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there is a huge impact here from the commodities slump and let's not

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underestimate that, and let's not underestimate the fact that can

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change frequently. A lot of people have lost a view of their many

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billions because of what is happening in those markets. Oil

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might not, from where it is right now, it might not be heading back to

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100, but it might do better. For many of these people, this is a

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temporary phenomenon. The point I found most exciting was busier you

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need at least ?103 million to make it onto the rich list. Rate of

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growth is slowing, so the rich are not getting so much richer as fast

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as they have been. The question is, is inequality, is the art of justice

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finally coming back towards... Less inequality? It has a long way to go.

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What did you make of this, Martin? It does not entirely excites me

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because it is so far out of the stratosphere of any normal person's

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reality, and also some of it is slightly artificial as you say, it

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is all about movements in the commodities markets and so one, so

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some of these figures will go back up again. The other interesting

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thing is you get more and more people coming from the creative arts

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world and so on, the sports world, making an appearance in it. You have

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got Sasha Baron Cohen who is on the list for the first time. Lewis

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Hamilton is on it. 106 minute pounds. You have got the Beckham is

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on it. They are behind the Queen. There is a changing nature there, I

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suppose, people making an awful lot of money out of sporting prowess and

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TV, films and so one, and that is perhaps the changing nature of this.

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One thing that struck me is that I have not heard of most of these

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people. Nor have we. I the sea move in the wrong circles. You read about

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them and I think, I know the product or that sector, steal or coal

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whatever it is, the Barclay brothers, but a lot of them are not

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people, they are under the radar. Another interesting point to this is

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why did we even like these lists, but I think the Panama papers

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revealed that we don't actually have any idea how much money anybody has,

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so there is something to be said about these numbers. Of course there

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are very rich people, but they in no way are representative of the actual

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wealth. Let's move on my finally, to the Queen's birthday celebrations.

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There are some absolutely lovely pic pictures of the Royal family and of

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the Queen herself. Whatever anyone thinks of the monarchy, she has done

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an amazing job. She has and the tributes are all incredibly well

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deserved. She is one of my favourite people in the world. That holds true

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for many other people, including 70 roles in other countries who were

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calling the palace wish her a happy birthday. It is the three macro

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heart-warming. Yes, the good news story of the week. People singing

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happy birthday down the phone line! One other thing, which has kind of

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been touched on this week, is how much the popularity of the monarchy

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as an institution depends on the popularity of the monarch. It is

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difficult to find anyone who has a bad word to say about the Queen, but

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that not delete macro does not necessarily mean that the

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institution is still something we like... It will seem worried about

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whether that mantle might pass. Obviously she will be impossible for

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anyone to follow, but on the other hand, I think you are right, the

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change in mood when she has been Queen, with the death of Diana and

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so on, there has been a tremendous success bringing it back into

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national popularity, and the Queen has done brilliantly. At at that

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period it looked rather differently. It is also interesting, the

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photographs of President Obama with Prince George and the families, and

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he is to seek comfortable about talking about his family, is

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children and so on. There is a difficult balance. But the so much

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in the public eye to know how much to actually give of your real life,

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your family life. It is a tough balance. Everyone must want some

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privacy, but you sign up for these roles and you have to share some of

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this. We saw a bit of that for sure. Back to the point of the Queen, with

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all the volatility and the rise of Isis and so much uncertainty in the

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world, part of the state fast rock nature of the monarchy, people are

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turning to that right now because there is so much uncertainty

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everywhere else. I be what happens in the rest of the world will define

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this a little bit macro people respect people performing public

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duty. That is why people delete macro Prince Charles will do well

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because he clearly seeks to do his duty as a public servant and I think

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people like that. Indeed, thank you both for joining us.

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Just a reminder we take a look at tomorrow's front pages

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every evening at 10:30 and 11:30 here on BBC News.

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Time now for a look at the weather with Matt.

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Don't forget, all of our reviews are on our website.

:20:24.:20:46.

Hello. More cloud around compared with yesterday, but still some

:20:47.:20:51.

sunshine breaking through every now and again. The early rain in the

:20:52.:20:57.

south-east has

:20:58.:20:59.

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