19/06/2016 The Papers


19/06/2016

A lively, informed and in-depth conversation about the Sunday papers.


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Now on BBC News, here's Gavin with The Papers.

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Hello and welcome to our Sunday morning edition of The Papers.

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With me are broadcaster Yasmin Alibhai-Brown

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The Mail on Sunday leads on the court appearance of the man

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charged with the murder of Labour MP Jo Cox.

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The Sunday Telegraph shows a picture of Jo Cox's parents visiting

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the floral tributes close to where their daughter was killed.

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Its main story is an interview with Michael Gove who rejects claims

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that voting to leave the EU will cause a recession.

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The Observer also leads on the EU Referendum -

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with a poll commissioned for the paper reporting that both

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Remain and Leave camps are "locked in a dramatic dead heat" ahead

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The Sunday Times has an interview with David Cameron,

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who calls a vote to leave the EU a "one-way ticket" -

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the paper says another poll claims the Remain camp has edged

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It shows a picture of British astronaut Tim Peake,

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who has returned to earth after six months in space.

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And The Independent bills its lead story as an exclusive.

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It says weapons and explosives stored at a safe house in Belgium,

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with the intention of being used by terrorists during Euro 2016,

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Let's begin with Jo Cox, the family's tribute on the front page

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of the Telegraph. Quote, we know there are some evil people in this

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world but a lot of good people, too. It is one of the striking things

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about this horrific event, how forgiving the family appear to be

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and how they are concerned... I don't know if they are forgiving,

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but what they are is, in a way what they are saying is, this doesn't

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defeat us all what Jo stood for. They must be breaking inside. The

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sister said, we are broken. But I think they feel, and they are quite

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right, I do admire the native British for the way they can handle

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themselves in these crises. I come from a culture where we would be

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wailing loudly for days, and I think it is important to show not that

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they weren't broken but that they were going to carry on. I just

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thought the father, at 1.I thought he was going to cry... He was

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looking at the flowers, wasn't he? Again and again they keep saying, Jo

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was a half glass -- glass half full person will stop she did some work

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in some terrible places, like Garforth. But she kept this optimism

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and I think that is the things people want to hold onto -- like

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Darfur. When her sister Kim gave the eulogy, so composed, but I thought

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they were getting great consolation and support from the people around.

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When they saw the flowers, I thought the father was going to break then

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because he was touched by people's affection and love for her, which of

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course was what he felt, but I think they got some consolation from

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knowing that people thought very, very highly of her and had genuine

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affection for an MP who worked for themselves loosely. Watching, the

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other thing I thought was they were extraordinary but also very

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ordinary, they could be the people next door. Absolutely, and she

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related, whether it was the old Muslim by all the traditional

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working-class people, there were no boundaries all barriers to her and I

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remember at the 50th birthday party when she was there, a mutual friend,

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she was heavily pregnant, and she didn't get off the dance floor and I

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thought, we all were read she would drop this thing! She was a good

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Yorkshire lass! She was tough. Politics has restarted today, let's

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cover that. The Telegraph, Michael Gove, except when it cause a

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recession, Britain will prosper. Like a lot of this stuff, who knows,

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but what do you think? This onslaught of Project Fear on the

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economy from the IMF, OCD, IFF, the Treasury, but the truth is I think

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if there is a Brexit vote on Thursday, which then maybe, who

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knows, there will be some shenanigans in the markets, I have

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little doubt, but it will be two or three years before we leave and in

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that time we would negotiate new trade relationships, pretty certain,

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with the EU and I think I'd would continue and after that we can have

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our own trade details so I am with Michael Gove, I don't think a Brexit

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vote would cause a recession at all and longer term I think our economic

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prospects would be better. Yasmin? Never trust an economist! They have

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got it wrong again and again and again! I am not going to trust

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roots, she is an economist! Morally worse than being a journalist!

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Michael Gove has never been in a position to run our economy or any

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other, to be this blase. This Project Fear thing is questionable,

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too, because the other side has been quitting up the biggest beer of all

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about immigration. -- whipping up. I'm not an economist, I will give

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you that, but you have got it wrong, economists have not been good for

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us! There is this thing that we don't know, nobody knows what is

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going to happen. There is no reason for recession because trade will

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continue. What happens if it doesn't? Can I come to your door

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with a demonstration saying, you said nothing would happen?! Yes, you

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can! I would lock your door just in case!

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The Sunday Times has got, not the opposite story but maybe this is

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something you might agree on, no turning back, warns David Cameron.

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In other words, if we vote Out, we are out. People talk about a second

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referendum if there is a Brexit vote on Thursday, go back to the European

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Commission, talk about wee negotiation, I think it is a

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nonstarter. Cameron tried. This is about a background of the polls

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showing a shift towards the Remain side, I wonder if it is the sympathy

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vote for Jo Cox. I know we will talk about the Observer as well but I

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thought it was interesting. But he is right, this is Out. He's also

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right when he says, when you have jumped out of the aeroplane, quote,

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you cannot scramble back through the door. This is one of the problems

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with this, once this incredibly big, important decision has been made,

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those people who may suffer the most are people at the bottom who have no

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say, in someways, and probably won't go out to vote, sadly, and it will

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be too late to do anything else. It is all very well to talk about the

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trade deals being fantastic in Australia or rubber but in the

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interim years as huge uncertainty will prevail. With the ERM there was

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lots of uncertainty but the economy thrived so I don't buy all of

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uncertainty stuff. We just want to believe what we want to believe.

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You're Project Fear on the economy, let's be frank about this. I just

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don't want economists to talk about it, that is all! Let's not be

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horrible about economist any more! Let's move on, Mail On Sunday, lots

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of interesting things in the Mail On Sunday this week, one is Jo Cox,

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words that she wrote just four days before she was killed, exclusive,

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don't fall for Leave's spin, I back the Prime Minister's plan to curb EU

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migrants. Do you think that perhaps Jo Cox has

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changed a bit the nature of this campaign, the shock everybody feels?

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I don't know, I think people might have changed for other reasons but

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it certainly has shocked the nation. I really want people to think about

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this and not lay stupid blame on one side or the other. But the country

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feels like a very openly and unpleasant country on the moment --

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at the moment if they think you are an outsider, which includes people

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like me, I have had texts and e-mails, I was shivering with,

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children who look foreign being assaulted, racism has broken out of

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the sewer was a bit -- I was showing roof. We always think the hard right

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is out there in Germany, Poland, so on, but we have a very strong hard

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right and I think people have begun to look at the country we are

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becoming, and a good thing, too, because actually I want us to be the

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country we were during the Olympics. I don't like the way the immigration

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issue has been so dominant, to be honest, in this campaign. Looking at

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this, obviously I don't agree with what she's saying, it seems

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discourteous to disagree with somebody who cannot answer back, but

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the truth is if we don't leave the single market we cannot control

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migration from the EU, and that, for a lot of people in this country who

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are not necessarily hard right or nasty people, is an issue. You

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cannot get over that, because they see the pressures on the public

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services, they see migrants from Poland competing for their jobs. You

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have to address these issues where there is an element of the hard

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right but these are not necessarily people who are hard right who are

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concerned about immigration. I am saying we have our own hard right,

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but I am saying and Nigel Farage's last poster, the most disgusting

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poster, actually disgusting... I don't condone that. Syrian refugees

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as a threat to us, but what I'm saying is the mood in the country

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since the referendum debate turned to migration has been poisonous.

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People are concerned and you have to address the concerns. A couple of

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other things, there is quite a lot in the Mail On Sunday which I

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thought was interesting. This is amazing, I never expected the Mail

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to do this. Page seven, Swastika girl, Cox's debt is unfortunate but

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don't let it stop us voting to quit the EU, stuff from various Nazi

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groups. This is the hard right that you said we tended to ignore. It is

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interesting how very quickly, very soon after Jo Cox's murder, how many

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commentators on the right were eager to say to us, oh, he was mentally

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ill, you might be, I don't know, or it has got nothing to do with the

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general right-wing and the mood of the country, two disassociates what

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happened. I think one has to take a much fairer look at what the country

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has become and here you have it, here you have it. OK, she is one

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girl, thank God we have kept the extremist right at bay here, but

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here you have it, they have quoted her, don't let this man sacrifice go

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in vain. But, Ruth, this is a fringe of a fringe of a fringe, isn't it?

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It is, a Labour MP in the papers a few days before, who was close to Jo

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Cox and was in Birstall a couple of days ago, she was very upset, it was

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quite touching, but she said, please don't criticise this death and

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connected in that particular way because she thought it wasn't

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helpful. I hope I am not misquoting her but I would agree with that

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sentiment. Can we look at what the papers have said about, I don't know

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whether people are led by leader columns in newspapers, but the Mail

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has got, for a safer, more prosperous and even greater Britain,

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we urge you to vote Remain, the Mail On Sunday, not what the Mail says.

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The Times says, Vote Remain, where the Sunday Times and The Sun, owned

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by the same people, are saying the opposite. Do you think people care?

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We care, because we look at this stuff. The irony is that if you are

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a mail reader, you read the Daily Mail six days a week and then you

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read this... I don't think Daily Mail readers will be influenced by

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this, I detect the big rivalry here, I would not want to go to a family

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party that! I'm shocked you detect some kind of rivalry in the Mail!

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This is what is happening to the country, within families this huge

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divide, Boris' family, the only one who wants out, he and his wife. His

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sister is in here somewhere saying the opposite. His father is in, the

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brothers are in. My closest Asian friends, I grew up with them, I am

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so upset that they want to leave, and my English husband is going to

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go to them today, sit them down and give them a lecture on how this is

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wrong! Intimidation! I'm not sure Sunday lunches are the place to

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discuss any of this! The Observer must have been

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listening to you, Britain's bit down the middle over Brexit. Do you trust

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the opinion polls on this? I suggest many of us don't any more. Not

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really, they got it so very badly wrong before the 2015 election. Most

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of the polling on this one was done before Jo Cox's debt and I suspect,

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as I mentioned earlier, there might have been a bit of a sympathy vote

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towards Remain since then. What surprises me about all this is how

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close the polls are, however bad or good they are, how close they are. I

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thought the Remain campaign would wallop this. I think some of them

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did, as well. I did not expect... Remain was lazy at the beginning.

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Neither was brilliant. Brexit was hyperactive! We are at hyperactive

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people! Is that it, Ruth, do you think Brexiters are very interested

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in this and the past sway the British people are not that

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bothered? It is interesting, people who say they will vote Brexit are

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more likely to vote than those who said they would vote Remain, they

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are more Bob -- more motivated. And that is why I want all of you don't

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want to leave to... This is party political! I am going to change the

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subject completely because we are in enough trouble!

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The Observer has got what I think is a great story, cheered me up, Tim

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Peake is back on Earth. Interested in this or not? It is fantastic! And

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he looks so... Just so unaffected, when you watched him, it was

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Kazakhstan where he came down, he must be so fit, in the old-fashioned

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meaning of the word, all of the words are changing now! I usually

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feel worth getting off the tube than he did coming at 28,000 mph or

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something through the earth's atmosphere! When they put him on the

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funny, tactical chair then wiped his face, he looked pretty exhausted. He

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is a great advocate. He is fantastic, he said, all I want now

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is a pizza and a cold beer. His body has been under huge stress, the

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capital comes out at something like 18,000 mph, I hope I have got the

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figure right, don't trust me, I'm an economist! It hits the Earth with a

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great bump and I think the capsule was upside down so they had to push

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it over. By the time he was on his feet he looked much better but his

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body has been through huge stress. He really enter used young kids. And

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he worked at it, didn't he, talking to classrooms and that sort of

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stuff? Science is still not popular amongst young kids, it is heroic,

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fantastic. Heroic, fantastic. Thanks to Ruth Lea and

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Yasmin Alibhai-Brown. Just a reminder we'll take a look

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at tomorrow's front pages tonight at 10.30pm and 11.30pm here on BBC

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News.

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