26/06/2016 The Papers


26/06/2016

A lively, informed and in-depth conversation about the Sunday papers.


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will just be it. I have races that I am committed to for the rest of the

:00:00.:00:00.

year, then I will decide whether I go.

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Time for The Paper. -- The Papers. With me are Lisa Markwell,

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former editor of The Independent on Sunday, and Martin Bentham,

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the Home Affairs Editor of Hilary Benn's sacking fully

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emerged, and this morning's reports that up to half the shadow cabinet

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are expected to resign in a bid Heidi Alexander being the first

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to announce she's stepping down. The Observer reported

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that the Labour leader had been facing a coup by members

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of his shadow cabinet, led by the former Shadow

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Foreign Secretary. The Sunday Times says

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Hilary Benn had been consulting colleagues about telling

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Jeremy Corbyn his time was up. Elsewhere, "Tories at War"

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is the Sunday Telegraph's headline. The paper says bitter infighting has

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reached new heights "Tories Battle to Stop

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Boris" is the Mail The paper says a string of MPs

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are lining up in the race to succeed and the Sunday Express

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outlines what it The paper says a string of MPs

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are lining up in the race to succeed And the Sunday Express

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outlines what it says is a triple boost to the UK

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following the referendum. What the make of this? It was

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probably inevitable that it was going to happen quite quickly that

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the Labour Shadow Cabinet, people who disagree with Jeremy Corbyn, or

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feel that now is the time to mobilise, have to do something very

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quickly, because for a labourer, if they want to install a new leader,

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and if there is the possibility of a general election, they have to get a

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new leader in place quickly and the only way to do that is to push for a

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mass resignations, which it looks like we will get today. Hilary Benn

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was not resignation, but he was pushed out. It is all about timing.

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Somebody I noticed on Twitter was saying that one of Jeremy Corbyn's

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advisers last night must have done the sacking from the taxi on the way

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home from the party last night. It is all very uncharted waters, this

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sort of middle of the night. What you make of this? You could not make

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some of it up. In a way it has been about to happen for quite some time,

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just a matter of when. From the Parliamentary Labour Party

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to view, since the Mormon Jeremy Corbyn was elected. There has been

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talk for a long time, and obviously now because of the referendum result

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-- the moment Jeremy Corbyn was elected. Even if there is not a

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general election on the horizon, obviously there will be won in 2020

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at the very latest, they have to address that damage that has been

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caused to the core support which we saw some of the last election anyway

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and looks to be getting worse. They do not want to face in the north of

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the country -- the country what they faced in Scotland. As it happens on

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this occasion, he has fast forward at himself -- fast forward it down

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mac the situation himself by this late-night sacking.

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You could see how it could happen. It is only a year since the actual

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general election. With David Cameron stepping down there will be a

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groundswell of opinion which says, we need to be able to press the

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reset button across the board. I think it is fascinating that this

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massive, seismic events, which is leaving the EU, obviously people are

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talking about it, but we are talking so much more about the personalities

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rather than this enormous, once-in-a-lifetime event. It is so

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important who replaces Cameron, and so important who replaces Jeremy

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Corbyn, but we must not lose sight of what is really happening here,

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which is this decision which will reverberate through the next

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hundreds of years. David Cameron, Boris Johnson, article 50, all of

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that... Belieber debate is not entirely irrelevant, but somewhat

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irrelevant -- The Labour debate. The fact that people were googling, what

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is the EU? And saying that they would not leave if they had known

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what was going to happen. This is a time when the newspapers are very

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important. If the newspapers did not do a good enough job of that, which

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on the whole they did, it is a real struggle to see how people will make

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an informed opinion about who to vote foreign general election if

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they got their start mac if they said that they did not understand

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the issues around the EU. Sticking with Jeremy Corbyn just for a

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second, he may be hosted, but he could run again. The suggestion is

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that he will not quit, which could mean that he could be re-elected. As

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your political correspondent quite rightly summarised situation

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recently, the problem for the critics of Jeremy Corbyn is exactly

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that, that the party is supportive of Jeremy Corbyn but also his view

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of the world, that left of centre view, there is a big split between

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the grassroots of the party and the people who actually bolted. --

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voted. The problem is that someone like Jeremy Corbyn will win again.

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The gulf between the party and the politicians. Only something like 2.5

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people who voted Labour at the last general election... It is

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significant that he has grassroots support... That is entirely valid,

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but it is not the Labour Party, it is the Labour readership... This

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could have been foreseen at the time that he was elected. Some said that

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he was an electable. Many of his critics did say that. He still got

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voted in by the people in the party. We will come back to that. We might

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even go over and hear Hilary Benn if he appears on the Andrew Marr

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programme shortly. Tories at war. Minister claims that

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project fewer warnings -- project fewer warnings are being borne out

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-- gulf. The Sunday papers were only a week

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ago heralding the joy of leaving. Now they are panicking, who is going

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to run this thing? 24 hours ago, Boris Johnson was saying that David

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Cameron was this marvellous statesman. No friends of Boris

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Johnson are briefing against David Cameron -- now. It is all friends

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against friends, friends,' is. -- "friends".

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Tories battle to stop Boris Johnson. Five rivals it tend to battle for

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number ten. He is not loved by everybody within the Parliamentary

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Conservative Party. Inevitably that will lead to a definite contest for

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the leadership. I would have thought that it is him or to Reza may -- to

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Reza -- consumer. She is the till person. There are

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criticisms that Boris Johnson is good at the big picture, but she's

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very good at running a department. She's a formidable hard worker and

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is devoted. Do not assume that Boris Johnson is the darling of the

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Conservative Party activists, some people do not necessarily want a

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permanent right on the big Dipper. Some of his appeal is that he can

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reach out across and beyond the Tory divide. On the other hand, there is

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the danger that people do not like him because of his showmanship. He

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is a winner. He won the London mayor collection and he won, if you can

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call it that, the referendum. They might say, we might not like him but

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he is effective. The mail on Sunday, a picture of Boris Johnson playing

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cricket, it says, Boris Johnson plays cricket as George Osborne goes

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missing. We are is George Osborne? This is fascinating. We saw the

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poignant pictures yesterday of David Cameron and Samantha Cameron.

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Whatever the broader picture is, he has to be visible, he has to do

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something. Before the referendum, he said that we do not have a plan in

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place. Mark Carney said that he had been talking to the Chancellor for

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weeks. By your apps and you're really undermining any chance that

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you have left of continuing to be in front line politics. I do not think

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that he has much of a chance. Win or lose I think that he has antagonised

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an awful lot of people. Especially with his emergency budget, and a lot

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of Tories said that they would not vote for it. He was at the forefront

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of the Project Fear agenda. He does need to actually do his job. Let us

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hear from Hilary Benn on the Andrew Marr show.

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This has been a very difficult decision for me because I agreed to

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serve in Jeremy Corbyn's Shadow Cabinet. I did not vote for him, but

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I thought we had a responsibility to support him, as I have supported

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every Labour Leader since I was elected as a member of Parliament.

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But it was becoming increasingly clear that there was grave concern

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about his leadership. I said to him that I no longer had confidence... I

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no longer had confidence in his leadership and he then dismissed me

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from the Shadow Cabinet, which is understandable, and I thanked him

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for having given me the opportunity to serve as Shadow Foreign

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Secretary. But the position is this. At this absolutely critical time for

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our country, following the EU referendum result, the Labour Party

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needs strong and effect if leadership to hold the government to

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account as we take huge decisions about the future of our country. We

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do not currently have that, and there is no confidence that we will

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be able to win a general election as long as Jeremy Corbyn remains

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leader, and I thought it was important to say that. Is a

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concerted move now against him? We have seen Heidi Alexander announced

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her resignation this morning. There are rumours that more will follow.

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Will there be more, do you think? Of course, as you would expect. It is

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for each individual to make their own decision. I have made mine, and

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I have made my views clear to Jeremy. He is a good and decent

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man... He is a good and decent man, but he is not a leader, and that is

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the problem. You called him, presumably? I did. You knew what was

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going on, presumably. I was not entirely surprised. He took his

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decision, as he was perfectly entitled to do. Do you accept that

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what you did was disloyal? Route I did what I believe to be true. -- I

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said what I believe to be true. I have devoted a lot of my personal

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life to politics, and if things are not working I think we have a wider

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responsibility to the party that we love, to speak out, because although

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this is, number of people will see that this is not an ideal time,

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there is never an ideal time, but it is not working, so therefore I

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thought it was important to speak out. Let us talk about the timing.

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It was less than a year ago that Jeremy Corbyn was elected leader on

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an absolutely massive landslide vote inside the Labour Party by members,

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trade unionists and others. Now it appears that there is a coup against

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him. The Conservative Party is tearing itself apart and an election

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looms quickly. Is this not the worst possible timing to be doing this? I

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want to Jeremy to be able to succeed, which is why greed to serve

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in the Shadow Cabinet. Not every body agreed to do so. But it has

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become clear that he is not succeeding, and there is never an

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ideal time and I recognise that and I also understand there will be

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those in the party live very, very unhappy about this. But we all await

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Judy -- we all wider duty to the party and the country needs a strong

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opposition. Can you walk us through the next few days? There will be a

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meeting on Monday and the possibility of a secret ballot on

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Tuesday on a motion of no confidence, which Margaret Hodge

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laid down. Is that when you think you will have to go? It is for

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Jeremy to make his own decision and further members of the Shadow

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Cabinet, the front bench, to decide what they will do. A number of

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things are happening, which you have just described. What we need more

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than anything else is strong leadership to deal with the

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challenge that the country faces. Because the decisions that you have

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just been discussing, article 50, personally, on that, we need to work

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out what kind of relation job we want to have with Europe. It is

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important that we continue to have access to the single market, the

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majority has sent us a message about free movement. We have to accept the

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decision, though I am very sorry about the outcome. Is there a basis

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to say, as the Liberal Democrats have done, that this was a

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catastrophe and we will frustrate the decision if we are elected? We

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have to respect the democratic decision and democratic will of the

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British people however much... I am glad you said that. However sad we

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are about the outcome. It is finished? The decision has been

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made, we have to make the best of it and heal the wounds. A nation

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divided on such a fundamental issue, that is not good for the future of

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the country. Have you decided whether to stand as the leader of

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the Labour Party? I am not going to be candidate for leader. I did not

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do this because I wanted to do it, I did it because it was the right

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thing to do. I care about the party that we have committed so much of

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our lives too. This seems like a futile coup attempt. Whatever the

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parliamentary party decides to do, the decision has to go back to the

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mass membership of the party, who we know are still vehemently

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enthusiastic we in favour of Jeremy Corbyn. Whatever happens in

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Parliament, the Labour Party will choose Jeremy Corbyn again, isn't

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it? That depends what happens. Whether Jeremy Corbyn decides to

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step down or to fight again. But I would also say to you, from

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conversations on the doorstep and with Labour Party members, that

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there are people who voted for Jeremy last year who are now seeing,

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it is not working, is it? The party will have to reflect on that because

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in the end we have to decide, are we going to be and affected -- and

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effective political force? There is a poll on the people today who

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suggest that people who voted for us as saying that they would not do so

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now. That would be catastrophic for the party as well as the country,

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because we need a strong and effective Labour Party. Just

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guessing, a lot of those are going to go to Ukip? That remains to be

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seen. We have to show as a party that we have listened to the

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message, the majority have centres. There are a number of reasons for

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that, sovereignty and immigration was a big message on the doorstep.

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Profound change, insecurity, old jobs have disappeared, people

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worrying about housing and the futures of their children. The

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Labour Party has to listen and show that we have understated and that we

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will come forward with policies. Do you think Jeremy Corbyn should now

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resign as Labour Leader? I no longer have confidence in him and the right

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thing for him to do with each take that decision, but that is the

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matter for him. Do you have a candidate in mind to replace them?

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No, that is not about him. In a sense it is. If there is an

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election, that will be a decision for the Labour Party. It is

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increasingly widely felt that the leadership we currently have is not

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working. I have said that openly and honestly. If there is a vote of no

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confidence next week, at that point, do you think that it is over for

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him? It is very difficult for any Labour leader to survive a vote of

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no confidence from the members that he is leading but we will have to

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see what happens. If he is supported by the party and the country, would

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you need a new structure to deal with that? I do not think that is an

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issue to talk about today. We had to deal with the situation we find

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ourselves in. We had the referendum campaign, I do not lean Jeremy for

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the outcome of the referendum, but people saw that he did not bring a

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great deal of enthusiasm to the task of arguing the case for Britain

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remaining in the European Union. Some people on the Jeremy Corbyn

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side of the item and say that you are leading a coup against him. Is

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that a fairway of putting it? I would not describe it as that

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myself. How would you describe it? I have come to the conclusion that I

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no longer have confidence. I said to him that I could not continue to

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serve and he dismissed me, and he is right to do so. It is for others to

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take the decision, but if this is the conclusion that we reach about

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the party that we care about, the right thing to do is to be

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straightforward and open about it and consequences will unfold.

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Hilary Benn speaking to Andrew Marr and saying that he has lost

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confidence in Jeremy Corbyn's leadership of

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