27/11/2016 The Papers


27/11/2016

A lively, informed and in-depth conversation about the Sunday papers.


Similar Content

Browse content similar to 27/11/2016. Check below for episodes and series from the same categories and more!

Transcript


LineFromTo

fights. That is all the sport. In the cricket, India are 174-5 and on

:00:00.:00:00.

BBC News Gavin Esler has The Papers. Welcome to our view of the Sunday

:00:00.:00:29.

papers. With me I Josie Delap, home affairs correspondent for The

:00:30.:00:31.

Economist, and Dave Wooding, political editor for The Sun on

:00:32.:00:37.

Sunday. The Dell Castro is on front page of the Sunday Times, saying he

:00:38.:00:39.

was the scourge of the west. Fidel Castro is also on the front

:00:40.:00:44.

page of The Observer saying The Sunday Mirror has an interview

:00:45.:00:47.

with another alleged abuse victim of the former football

:00:48.:00:51.

coach Barry Bennell. The Mail On Sunday claims police

:00:52.:00:53.

were warned by their own expert that allegations of child abuse

:00:54.:00:56.

against the former Prime Minister Ted Heath shouldn't

:00:57.:00:58.

be taken seriously. Theresa May will announce

:00:59.:01:00.

a crackdown on executive pay this week, an approach previously

:01:01.:01:03.

advocated by Ed Miliband. And The Sun On Sunday says

:01:04.:01:08.

Princess Beatrice cut Ed Sheeran's face with a sword while

:01:09.:01:10.

attempting to knight And The Sun On Sunday says

:01:11.:01:12.

Princess Beatrice cut Ed Sheeran's That is a cracking headline. I'm

:01:13.:01:20.

sorry. I must take that more seriously! We will get to that in

:01:21.:01:28.

the end. Let's begin with Castro, or Fidel, depending on how you view

:01:29.:01:32.

him. There are a different takes on all of the newspapers. Grief and

:01:33.:01:36.

some celebration in the Observer, but they have pieces talking about

:01:37.:01:39.

the revolutionary leader. And the Sunday Times says he is the scourge

:01:40.:01:44.

of the west and has pieces saying he is a monster, which pretty much sums

:01:45.:01:49.

it up. Absolutely. The coverage reflects the contrast in statements

:01:50.:01:53.

we have had from different leaders. Jeremy Corbyn, Donald Trump, Barack

:01:54.:01:57.

Obama, responding to this figure, depending however you judge him, he

:01:58.:02:02.

was a giant of the 20th century. You can't deny the fact that he was a

:02:03.:02:05.

leader that everyone will remember. Whether you see him as a scourge,

:02:06.:02:12.

revolutionary, a monster as some people describe him, that will vary

:02:13.:02:15.

enormously. Some of the left have come out today saying he did a lot

:02:16.:02:18.

to improve health care and education, but don't forget he took

:02:19.:02:23.

the world to the brink of World War when he invited Khruschev, the then

:02:24.:02:28.

Soviet leader, to make a pre-emptive strike on the USA. When he took over

:02:29.:02:35.

in 1959, there were about 500 to 600 executions. Thousands of people fled

:02:36.:02:42.

Cuba. In the 1980s, around 1984 or 1985, there were all these Cubans

:02:43.:02:46.

who had fled to Florida, and it was something like we have seen

:02:47.:02:49.

recently, the migration crisis from North Africa to Europe. I was really

:02:50.:02:55.

struck by the coverage and the tone yesterday. I spoke to a lot of

:02:56.:02:58.

people about him as well and broadly on the left, there is the

:02:59.:03:03.

idealisation of this romantic hero, very good-looking guy, all very sexy

:03:04.:03:08.

and so on. Very much downplaying the very serious abuses that took place

:03:09.:03:20.

in Cuba. And on the right, you have the idea that he is a complete

:03:21.:03:22.

monster, from people and organisations who tended to support

:03:23.:03:25.

Bina J in Chile, and in Nicaragua, and Bautista in Cuba himself. --

:03:26.:03:35.

Pinochet will. I think most people will see it less black and white.

:03:36.:03:43.

Absolutely. He bought Cuba its liberation but at the cost of its

:03:44.:03:47.

liberty. He did provide health care and education in a way that we

:03:48.:03:53.

hadn't seen. Much better than other places in Latin America and the

:03:54.:03:57.

United States, you might say. But poverty. Yes, a controlled economy

:03:58.:04:05.

that didn't work for the people of Cuba, and phenomenal human rights

:04:06.:04:09.

abuses. To paint him as a hero or a villain, that doesn't really capture

:04:10.:04:12.

the kind of person and leader that he was. We can agree that he was a

:04:13.:04:18.

massive figure. This is a tiny island, quite unobscured place in

:04:19.:04:23.

the past. He put it on the map. Maybe not for the best reasons. I

:04:24.:04:27.

think what you say about the tribal politics element of this, people on

:04:28.:04:31.

the right hero worship, turning a blind eye to the bad things they do,

:04:32.:04:36.

and the same happens with people on the left. What I found interesting

:04:37.:04:40.

here with the assassination attempts. 638! And the CIA came up

:04:41.:04:48.

with some fantastic ruses, exploding cigars. Poisoned milkshakes! They

:04:49.:04:54.

were going to poison his diving gear, hoping his beard would fall

:04:55.:04:58.

out. They made an oyster shell for the bottom of the sea when he went

:04:59.:05:02.

scuba-diving with some toxins in to kill him and failed every time.

:05:03.:05:07.

There is a great quote in the Observer, looking at the

:05:08.:05:10.

disproportionate effect he had. A US diplomat a few years ago. Cuba seems

:05:11.:05:16.

to have the same effect on American administrations that a full moon has

:05:17.:05:20.

on a werewolf. That extraordinary level of frustration and I think

:05:21.:05:26.

anger and embarrassment for America, of having so close this resolutely

:05:27.:05:30.

Communist, Revolutionary regime, which did not respond to the

:05:31.:05:35.

sanctions that America imposed on it for decades, and he just held in

:05:36.:05:40.

there. That is a good point. When Obama changed things, and he clearly

:05:41.:05:43.

did, he pointed out that we have been doing the same thing for 50

:05:44.:05:46.

years and it hasn't worked, which is a statement of the blindingly

:05:47.:05:50.

obvious. And the question now is what Donald Trump will do when he

:05:51.:05:56.

takes office in January. He was very critical of President Obama

:05:57.:05:59.

'soverjoyed to Cuba and his relaxing of the restrictions on Cuba. --

:06:00.:06:09.

overtures. But without the figure of Castro, he will feel a bit more open

:06:10.:06:14.

to that relationship. And he won Florida. A remarkable coincidence

:06:15.:06:19.

given the Cuban-Americans who hate Castro. Let's move on because there

:06:20.:06:24.

are some interesting domestic stories. The Telegraph. Theresa May

:06:25.:06:30.

carries on Labour's business pay crackdown. This goes to the heart of

:06:31.:06:34.

another big theme in politics. Theresa May in business and how well

:06:35.:06:36.

she is getting on with other business leaders. This reminds me of

:06:37.:06:41.

something Ed Miliband was talking about in the last election only a

:06:42.:06:46.

year ago, putting curbs on fat cat pay, as we like to call it in the

:06:47.:06:53.

red top media. This has been reawakened by the scandal involving

:06:54.:06:56.

Sir Philip Green and the closure of BHS and the pensions crisis there.

:06:57.:07:02.

What Theresa May is saying actually is that she wants to put workers

:07:03.:07:06.

almost in control, giving them a say in the pay packages of senior

:07:07.:07:11.

executives. And much more transparency about what goes on. I

:07:12.:07:16.

wonder whether some die-hard Conservatives in the party will see

:07:17.:07:21.

this as stifling aspiration that is anti-business, which is what the

:07:22.:07:25.

Conservative Party wants it to be, and on the other hand it is really

:07:26.:07:28.

addressing a problem which Mrs May wants to do, building a Britain that

:07:29.:07:32.

works for everyone. We keep hearing that phrase. Is she using socialism?

:07:33.:07:39.

I think this probably is socialism. The Germans do something very

:07:40.:07:42.

similar and that is across the board, including very right wing

:07:43.:07:47.

parties like Angela Merkel. It brings a degree of harmony, people

:07:48.:07:51.

say, to boardrooms, if you have that. Ride. I think the real problem

:07:52.:07:55.

with this kind of policy is that one of the questions will be the extent

:07:56.:08:00.

to which it has an impact on working people and their salaries and the

:08:01.:08:04.

extent to which this is more about her showing himself to be on the

:08:05.:08:10.

side of the JAMs, the people she was talking about in the run up to the

:08:11.:08:14.

Autumn Statement. Her relationship with big business is convicted at

:08:15.:08:17.

the moment because they have different positions on Brexit and

:08:18.:08:21.

what kind Brexit Britain should pursue, and big businesses are not

:08:22.:08:25.

keen on the hard Brexit they are leaning towards. But at the heart of

:08:26.:08:31.

this, I forget the most recent figures, but basically if you look

:08:32.:08:35.

at average pay and what the CEO earned in the 60s it was a multiple

:08:36.:08:40.

of 30 or 40 and now it is several hundred times, and people are asking

:08:41.:08:42.

whether TV executives are any better now than 30 years ago. Better paid!

:08:43.:08:50.

-- chief executives. Absolutely and this is a poisonous idea that has

:08:51.:08:55.

started to emerge after the financial crisis, when people

:08:56.:09:01.

started to focus on pay. Forcing companies to publish the gap between

:09:02.:09:05.

executive pay and the average pay of ordinary workers, with more

:09:06.:09:08.

transparency. I think a lot of it is awareness. They get to the top, like

:09:09.:09:13.

politicians are out of touch, they earn huge salaries and they forget,

:09:14.:09:17.

they are unaware of what ordinary people think like and how it is seen

:09:18.:09:23.

by ordinary people. Work is having a little moment to intervene might

:09:24.:09:31.

make them think twice. -- workers having a moment. I liked this story

:09:32.:09:35.

in The Times, which isn't surprising, also about Mrs May. The

:09:36.:09:39.

Brexit challenge keeps her awake at night. Really! You would hope that

:09:40.:09:44.

it would! The extraordinary complexities of Britain leaving the

:09:45.:09:48.

EU, I am not surprised. I am surprised that she sleeps at all.

:09:49.:09:53.

Maybe she doesn't? Indeed. It would be one thing if the Conservatives in

:09:54.:10:00.

the government had unified approach about what they wanted from Brexit

:10:01.:10:04.

and how they want Britain to leave the EU. You idealist! Even then it

:10:05.:10:09.

would be an extraordinary conduct a difficult thing that would take

:10:10.:10:12.

years. But to be trying to do this when even she has not quite worked

:10:13.:10:16.

out exactly in what manner Britain should be leaving the EU is frankly

:10:17.:10:21.

an impossible task. This also plays into something that many people

:10:22.:10:24.

would think of as one of her strengths. She is known to be a hard

:10:25.:10:29.

worker. He is known to do the work, and you know better than I, not

:10:30.:10:33.

every politician actually does the work necessary. She spends a lot of

:10:34.:10:40.

time... She is a serious player. She doesn't spend much time briefing the

:10:41.:10:45.

media, giving interviews. She is probably a serious politician for

:10:46.:10:49.

serious times. What I quite like in this is the fluffy stuff. The

:10:50.:10:54.

leather trousers! That immediately got your attention. What is

:10:55.:11:01.

fascinating about Theresa May, and I have known her for 18 years and I

:11:02.:11:05.

have had many conversations with her, and you never feel like you

:11:06.:11:08.

have got to know her very well. She is a deeply private person. I did an

:11:09.:11:14.

interview with her in October, and this interview in the Sunday Times

:11:15.:11:16.

Magazine seems to scratch the surface a bit more, a bit more about

:11:17.:11:22.

her. Philip chooses all her clothes. He goes out and help her pick her

:11:23.:11:26.

clothes. There was a lovely vignette in there. Her first wedding selfie.

:11:27.:11:32.

She was near a wedding and somebody saw her and said, Prime Minister,

:11:33.:11:35.

will you join the wedding party for a few minutes? And she went and

:11:36.:11:39.

posed for video with the bride and groom and made a mini speech. Little

:11:40.:11:44.

bits of her personality are coming out and that will do her good

:11:45.:11:49.

because we don't really know her. That's true. Another thing this

:11:50.:11:53.

points to is another trait of hers which people talk about, which she

:11:54.:11:57.

is not terribly good at delegating. She likes to keep an eye on

:11:58.:12:01.

everything that is going on, and there is a sense of her being in

:12:02.:12:05.

control of everything. And when you are dealing with a task as mammoth

:12:06.:12:09.

as Brexit, that isn't possible. When you are dealing with a Cabinet when

:12:10.:12:14.

there are many opinions, delegating may not be best!

:12:15.:12:31.

I also like this story in The Times. Bosses told to bring back Christmas.

:12:32.:12:35.

In a week when we have been told that living standards have not gone

:12:36.:12:38.

up for a decade, we could do with some Christmas cheer. We are being

:12:39.:12:40.

told not to be killjoys about Christmas and don't worry about

:12:41.:12:42.

offending other faiths. Most people I know who are Muslim or Jewish,

:12:43.:12:45.

they are very happy to celebrate Christmas and they do it in a

:12:46.:12:48.

different way but that is fine. This story comes back every year. There

:12:49.:12:50.

is always somebody trying to stop you saying happy Christmas and to

:12:51.:12:52.

say seasons greetings, or something like that. We are told that

:12:53.:12:57.

Christmas is slipping away from its original meaning. And I think

:12:58.:13:00.

probably, as you say, most people are happy to go along with it. It

:13:01.:13:04.

has to be people who are not Christians who do this, make a big

:13:05.:13:10.

fuss about it. It seems to be very sensitive people of a Christian

:13:11.:13:13.

background who are worried about offending people. I think diversity

:13:14.:13:16.

is probably affecting some politically correct people too much

:13:17.:13:19.

and they think they should bend over backwards and not offend people. The

:13:20.:13:23.

truth is that people of other faiths are not offended. If I go to India,

:13:24.:13:27.

I will celebrate a Farley with everybody else and have a jolly good

:13:28.:13:37.

time. -- Diwali. I think people are secure enough in their own faiths

:13:38.:13:44.

and opinions. It is the first Sunday in advert, so we are off to a good

:13:45.:13:49.

start. Three cheers for Christmas! Now The Sun on Sunday. Great

:13:50.:13:58.

headline. Royal Ed banger. Beatrice cuts Ed Sheeran's face with a sword

:13:59.:14:05.

as she tries tonight James Blunt. Which one is the gaffe? It is a

:14:06.:14:12.

great story. Ed Sheeran has been on social media with this little gash,

:14:13.:14:19.

and they said he fell over drunk, but it was basically a mock

:14:20.:14:22.

knighthood ceremony verging on execution! Princess Beatrice, Prince

:14:23.:14:30.

Andrew's daughter, she was in the world large with Ed Sheeran and

:14:31.:14:36.

James Blunt, the other celebrity. -- in the royal lodge. And James Blunt

:14:37.:14:41.

said he would like to be so James Blunt, Ana Beatriz said she could

:14:42.:14:47.

sort out, grabbed the ceremonial sword, and tapped him on the

:14:48.:14:51.

shoulder, but it was so heavy and when she waved it behind her, she

:14:52.:14:57.

nicked Ed on the face and he needed six stitches. I bet the economist

:14:58.:15:02.

wishes it had that story! Whether it will still have legs on Friday, we

:15:03.:15:11.

will see! Ed Sheeran seems to be fairly content. Frankly, I think it

:15:12.:15:15.

will be a great story for him to dine out on for 30 years, scarred by

:15:16.:15:23.

a Princess. The royal mark of Zorro. And we have got to pay tribute to

:15:24.:15:28.

you for the headline on page 11. Can you catch it on camera? It is about

:15:29.:15:42.

Castro and you came up with our man in heavena. I convinced he has gone

:15:43.:15:46.

to heaven? We were talking about it. There are plumes of smoke but that

:15:47.:15:52.

could be from his cigar! Thank you to Dave Wooding and Josie Delap. You

:15:53.:15:59.

can see The Papers at 10:30pm and 11:30pm tonight on the BBC News

:16:00.:16:00.

Channel. Hello. An improving story through

:16:01.:16:14.

the day today. It started quite grey but good spells of sunshine

:16:15.:16:18.

developing for many areas. Sunny spells developing but we have

:16:19.:16:19.

Download Subtitles

SRT

ASS