20/02/2017 The Papers


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Hello and welcome to our look ahead to what the the papers will be


With me are Broadcaster Dame Joan Bakewell and Lucy Fisher,


Senior Political Correspondent at The Times.


Tomorrow's front pages, starting with:


Joan, you were in the House of Lords for the debate on the Brexit bill.


Let's look at the times, I think. They have got it on their front page


and a picture of Theresa May. Unusual for a Prime Minister to go


into the Lords and listen to a debate. Very exceptional for the


people from the Commons to come in at all. She cannot go into the body


of the chamber, if you notice she is sitting with her back to the throne.


Not on the throne? Not quite. I was about ten yards from her. There was


a flurry, whispering, it is Theresa May. Why do you think she wanted to


come in? I was also at the debate and taking part in the debate on the


higher education Bill. Joe Johnson came in and stood below the bar,


they are interested in what is going on in the Lords. It is a very


thoughtful place, less partisan than the Commons and some really


well-informed people, whose opinions are worth hearing. I am sure she


wanted to see how the Brexit debate was falling either way. She stayed


for the two opening speeches and then she went. She wanted to


register that she was keeping an eye on us. It was packed today, the


Lords. Will you vote for some of the amendments peen put to the Brexit


bill? I will be voting for about four of the amendments when they


come. The amendments are matters I care about, about the people who are


resident here, foreigners who are resident here, they should be given


the right to stay. There were very good speeches about the anxiety


surrounding the border between Northern Ireland and Ireland prop.


Those speeches were very moving, very well informed, not hysterical,


but made a point of how serious it was. So I will be voting for that


amendment. Lucy, the bill went through the Commons unaltered and


not amended. You are trying to block it in some way and trying to change


it in the Lords? Government sources we heard from two weeks ago, warned


that he is not to play God. David Davis has tried to play down some of


the rhetoric. But if there is going to be this prolonged ping-pong with


the Lord sending legislation back to the Commons, back to the Lords and


back to the Commons again, the upper chamber will call down on its head,


big debate about its existence. Bring it on. The role of the Lords


is to revise and improve legislation that comes through. We accept the


legislation as having been voted through but all legislation can be


improved. But this is unique in that it was voted in a referendum, 17.4


million people voted to leave and end of story. No, 16 million people


didn't vote for it so there are cases being made. In a democracy,


the 16 million should also have a voice and that voice is finding its


place in the agenda. It is well intentioned that those who say let's


get on with it, and of course we had the referendum and the voice of the


people have spoken, but they listened discreetly to those who say


no in a democracy and those who lose, the 16 million deserve a voice


and their point of view to be heard. In some way representing, but not


overruling the so-called will of the people, but adding to the richness


of the approval that finally goes through. What do you think Theresa


May was therefore, was it in any sense to perhaps warned the Lords,


don't mess around with this Bill? Absolutely, I thought she looked a


spectacle of a menacing intent as she sat there and eyeballed. I felt


quite sorry for Natalie Evans, the Conservative leader of the house. It


is like having the headmistress come into the back of the class and watch


your work. I felt the chill going through the chamber. The Guardian


have an analysis of the burden that Britain would be left with if there


wasn't any kind of trade deal on leaving the EU. ?6 billion a year


the Guardian saying, it would cost British exporters. We will get into


some of the mechanics of what the various options are. If we do leave


the EU without any settle Brexit deal and crash are, as many people


describe it, on the World Trade Organisation rules, we will face


higher tariffs. It is interesting, so much complexity and uncertainty


around various options. Do we have the expertise in Whitehall? We know


there has been a struggle to hire the right negotiators. The Guardian


with the 6 billion figure and quote arriving from the former ambassador


for the UK to the EU, thought it might take up to ten years to


negotiate a deal. If you multiply that by ten years, it is 60 billion.


This whole matter of the trade deal is crucial. Theresa May, for some


reason, has plumped instantly for very hard Brexit. The Guardian has


gone to work on how to cost that. Nigel Lawson spoke about, don't


bother with soft Brexit, don't bother about access to the single


market, go straight to the WTO. The WTO deal will be really hard for us


to sustain. Very punitive. Why are plumbing, choosing to go so directly


so hard? Is it a negotiating ploy? I don't understand, it is punitive.


Let's talk about the business rate increase the government is talking


about, Lucy. Some indications the Chancellor, he was meeting Tory


backbenches tonight might be rowing back a little bit? Yes, he has made


clear he is in listening mode, alive to some of the complaints MPs have.


Half a million small firms in the UK that are set to see rate hikes of up


to 300% in some cases. Could be crippling for independent retailers


for the high street, in competition with Amazon and the like, these


online retailers who are set to see their rates drop. Some of the


details, Sajid Javid, the community secretary has been on holiday in


Dubai. This issue has been on our front pages day after day and Philip


Hammond coming to talk to his backbenchers, I wonder if there is a


split emerging in the Cabinet. It is a full-scale row because the


Treasury are very cross he seems to have messed up on this arrangement.


This is at the heart of Tory policy. This is where their voters and


supporters of small businesses and big businesses is. To have this row


going on and keep on running, it is in the papers day after day, this is


damaging, someone has to step in and sort it out or are they waiting for


the budget? I think there could be possibly something in the budget on


this. There is an interesting line, Sajid Javid has been accused by his


backbenchers of dodgy figures. He wrote to MPs at the end of last


week, Conservative MPs and has been accused of doctoring those figures


between five and 7% to make it look like areas have rates that are over


all falling, one that is not the case. Speaking of dodgy figures, the


Daily Mirror have got a story, the Lasse Kjus Dame Joan to talk about,


because there is criticism of the Lords are still leaching. They have


evidence from a BBC programme where a pier was spotting knitting in to


claim his ?300 allowance while he or she kept a taxi waiting outside. It


is outrageous. I don't know anyone who does it, because the people I


associate with stay all day and do a good job. I am not aware of it


happening. Is there any excess in the Lords? A lot of hard working


people doing boring stuff most of the time that don't make the


headlines. They attend in large numbers. If a couple keep the taxi


waiting comet they shouldn't and it is a scandal but not enough to bring


down the Lords. Because it looks like we will be bringing ourselves


down anyway. Lucy, what is your experience of the Lords, is it


represented criticism or one-off, a peer keeping a taxi waiting? It is


very fashionable to bash an elected chambers. My experiences, it is a


high level of debate, people are experts. While everyone is


opinionated, when I watch debates I can only see people speaking up when


they have relevant expertise. Overall, I am impressed from what I


have seen. The Lords was absolutely packed today. Absolutely crowded.


They were sitting on the stairs, very keen. And tomorrow, it goes on


from 11 in the morning to midnight. It is one of the turning point in


history, this bill. It is taken very seriously by everyone who is there


and nearly 200 people are going to speak about it. A good atmosphere in


there? You get to hear what everybody says, even those who


disagree with them. The Daily Mail, story about universities told to


throw the book at SA cheats. Lucy, I am sure you weren't a cheat at


university? No, I can safely say. But I was aware of it and friends of


mine made a bit of extra cash on the side by writing some of essays for


less scrupulous students and handed them in as their own. I think part


of the problem is, when you can sign up online and pay money to write it,


it is at the spoke service, I can have a B+, I think it is going to be


difficult to crack down. I was told by someone who marks papers that it


is possible to identify. A phrase that keeps cropping up, you only


have two Google that phrase and it takes you to the source material and


you can identify it. But if it has been written by Airbus spoke essay


for you, it won't have been written on line. But they are used by source


material, you can put the phrases in and see what the source material


was. Once you have got the Internet and loads of information, it is


going to be hard to track. You probably could, but it will be a lot


of effort, will it be worth it? They will not get degrees and they will


not get good jobs. I favour an exam -based system and maybe get rid of


the coursework which bogs you down and doesn't let you get to grips


with material. Let's finish off with something neither of us are guilty


of which is mumbling on the television. In the Telegraph, Joan


they have a story about the latest drama, SSGB, complaints about the


mumbling. There were a few bits of dialogue I had to rewind and I still


didn't understand. At my age, I do have to have the subtitles with a


drama and lots of music. Lotsa people said they needed the


subtitles on this programme. Also, I turn the subtitles of Billy McClure


of when I watch the news because the people who do the news speak very


clearly. I do find when you are in a wine bar or a restaurant, the


background music can be loud. I am shouting at my partner, dining


partner from across the table which makes me feel a bit uncomfortable.


That is a sign of getting old when you think the music in bars and


restaurants is getting to live. Thank you so much for being with us,


both of you. Don't forget you can see the front


pages of the papers online It's all there for you -


seven days a week. And if you miss the programme any


evening you can watch it No mumbling, we promise you. Good


night. Hello, many parts of the UK got an


early dose of spring, certainly encouraging the spring bulbs out


across parts of the UK. Temperatures 18 Celsius


No need to wait until tomorrow morning to see what's in the papers - tune in for a lively and informed conversation about the next day's headlines.

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