26/03/2017 The Papers


26/03/2017

A lively, informed and in-depth conversation about the Sunday papers.


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Hello, and welcome to our look ahead to what The Papers will be

:00:13.:00:15.

With me are Ian Birrell, Assistant Editor at the Mail

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on Sunday and Shyama Perera, journalist and broadcaster.

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The Sunday Times claims EU migrants living in Britain will continue

:00:24.:00:29.

to get child benefits after Britain leaves the EU.

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The Observer leads with the coalition air strikes in Mosul,

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which it says have killed at least 150 civilians and caused

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The Sunday Express's front page features the Conservative MP

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Tobias Ellwood and says he's spoken for the first time after trying

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to save PC Keith Palmer in Wednesday's terror attacks.

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The Mail reports that the air ambulance Prince William

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co-pilots had a near miss with a drone last summer.

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The Sunday Telegraph leads with Douglas Carswell's

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resignation from UKIP, reporting that it's led to a civil

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So, let's start where we ended, with the Sunday Telegraph. Ukip civil war

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after Douglas Carswell quits the party and leaving it without an MP.

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There is a certain inevitability to this because we have known for some

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time that Ukip is very divided between the different factions, and

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it is quite entertaining on one level to see here is Douglas

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Carswell who, when he joined the party, held a by-election and said

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how nice it was to have a leader with whom he agreed, but now he says

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he is quitting and it is amicable from his point of view. Instantly,

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people like Nigel Farage and Paul Nuttall are putting the boot into

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him. I quite enjoy the amicable to wear Paul Nuttall writes in the

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Sunday Telegraph he managed to beat of this competition to get an

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exclusive piece of him right he would have hoped for a more bone up

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approach to politics. It is a sign of extremely infighting going on in

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this party, which is rather pointless these days given that it

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Brexit. Which was Douglas Carswell's Brexit. Which was Douglas Carswell's

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reason for leaving. It is interesting that you spoke about

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Ukip as an extremist party, but we know that as part of the tension

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within the party. Nigel Farage says they must be radical, not

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mainstream. I'm not sure I saw them as an extremist party, more a one

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trick pony and the trick has been one so far. If we do leave, and we

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are expecting that, I can see why Douglas Carswell is leaving, he is

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the lone wolf. He has always written his own agenda, and he has been able

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to do so because Ukip has no purchase within Parliament. Sir

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Douglas Carswell has always been able to say I am Ukip, I am this and

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I am that, and he has got away with it. I am not sure what he ever did

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to help Ukip's cause, it has only ever helped Douglas Carswell's cause

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because it got him on the front pages when open ever noticed him

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before. But there is this tension when people like Nuttall and Nigel

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Farage want to reinvent the party as a force against the Labour Party, to

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make it a populist and left-wing, and suddenly they are now pushing

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for the NHS is a very sacred cause. They are hoping to undermine Labour.

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Douglas Carswell is more philosophical, a more liberal

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approach to immigration, and there has been this tension between the

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two wings which have muddled together through the referendum, and

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now it is coming open. The trouble is, the two wings don't marry up,

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between Douglas Carswell who is fundamentally a liberal

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conservative, and people like Nuttall who are trying to remake the

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party as this sort of working-class attracting rival to the Labour

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Party. Fascinating. That, in a sense, is the party. If we have a

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think about the man himself the Sunday Times on page three, MP

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Carswell don't leave by walking out on Ukip. This is in a sense a more

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personal take on what has happened. They are considering what Douglas

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Carswell might do now. He says he will sit as an independent, but some

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in the Conservative Party might say come back, all is forgiven. Yes,

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walking back to happiness, I suspect that is what he will try to do.

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Although he says not. Perhaps he will, Patsy will put on a white suit

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and become a more permanent independent MP. I don't really care

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what happens to Douglas Carswell, but what is interesting about Ukip,

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a bit like trump it is made up of people who are not naturally

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politicians, and one understands now why politics has become so

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sophisticated because people turn it into a career from day one. If you

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come from somewhere else, you can't manage the competitions and

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different strands that have to be played simultaneously. That is what

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is happening in Ukip. It is not necessarily a lack of commitment or

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knowledge, it is a lack of political know-how. Also, a lot of

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Conservatives really don't want Douglas Carswell to come back,

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perhaps because he betrayed them. Equally for Carswell it is difficult

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because he made a firm stance, he has written a book about rebellion

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in politics, he is very much about direct democracy and about a new way

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of doing politics, as he calls it. One of those things was to hold a

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by-election when he switched parties. He has not held a

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by-election becoming an independent, and it would be difficult to become

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a conservative without holding a by-election. And his majority is

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about 3500, considerably down from what it was before. It is

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interesting because it is one of the firmest basis for Ukip in the

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country, in terms of support for Brexit, so it would be an

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interesting test if there were a by-election. Let's move on to the

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Sunday Times's FrontPage. It is about EU migrants keeping benefits

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after Brexit. This is the week in which article 50 is to be triggered,

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so a lot of EU stories in the Sunday papers today. I suppose I am not

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surprised, but basically it means that all the rights that had been

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enjoyed by all EU citizens, not only those here, but as in other

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countries, will continue for those who were here before Article 50 is

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called. I don't think anybody can be surprised by it. A lot of people

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will be angry yet again because this was one of the problems that was

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going to be dealt with, and there is a certain oddness about somebody

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working here but having benefits for families that are not declared here,

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in the sense they are not visible to us. I also have a slight problem

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with this, which is that I have never quite understood it. But it

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seems to me in terms of parity, of course this has to continue. This

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comes from a draft paper submitted to the Department for exiting the

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EU, so we don't actually know this is government policy, but it is

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intriguing. It shows that even as we are about to trigger Article 50,

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politicians don't have a clue what is ahead of us. We are jumping off a

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cliff and we have no idea of the end result. It also shows how utterly

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pointless Brexit is because we will end up basically, all this talk of

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taking back control, but a lot of the things which were claimed would

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be achieved by taking back control and Brexit are not achievable, we

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will still have to pay into the EU to get rights for things like some

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of the service sector, for Finance, we're not really going to be able to

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cut migration much because no one has actually answered if we get rid

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of care workers, the agricultural workers, the city workers, the

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entrepreneurs in the city, who are we talking about me talk about

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cutting back immigration? We will be paying money, we will still

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beginning benefits, we will still have high immigration, and it is

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just a farce. It shows, going back to the previous story, the utter

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nonsense talked about by those he Brexit campaigners. Over the next

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five years, Britain will be dominated by an utterly pointless

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debate while more important issues such as NHS, social care,

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productivity, getting the economy right going to be ignored. You speak

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strongly. There will be many viewers who disagree with you. We will leave

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that that because it is a conversation we all have for the

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next two years and longer. This is not meant to the front page

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of The Observer. Mosul assault halted as theory grows over civilian

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deaths. This is about the US coalition carrying out air strikes.

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If you think these strikes are lily a week ago and they are still

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pulling out survivors, this story is horrific. In the week we had a

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terror attack in London, it does bring into clear relief difference

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between what we are worrying about and what is happening somewhere

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else, where we are getting our hands dirty, maybe for the right reasons,

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but does that mean it is all right to get your hands dirty? I am not

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sure. This is an interesting story to look at this week when we have

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been getting so anxious over a lone wolf acting criminally. It is

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interesting the impact this will have in the area because it does

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appear that there is some twiddling of support for the actions being

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taken by the West. Dash-macro dwindling. It undermines what

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happens with Russia, they can argue they were fighting terrorism and so

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were you, but actually is not quite true because Russia will not

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targeting Isis, they were purely backing Assad, who has killed far

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more people than Isis. But also, this does undermine support for the

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Iraqi government, and for the Western approach. That is a

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significant factor, and this is not the first. There have been other

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incidents, not as bad as this one, but that is a problem, when people

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are fleeing their homes, we have two remake this country at the end of

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this process, whatever happens. It is significant politically and on a

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humanitarian level as well. Absolutely.

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Let's go on to the other main story on the front page of The Observer,

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the story that has dominated the news this week, the Westminster

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Keller acting alone in less than 1.5 minutes. Yes, 82 seconds they have

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broken it down into. I am not quite sure what one takes from this. I

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suppose what we can say is no wonder it took a little while for the

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killer to be shot because it all happened so quickly. Even when you

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are reacting instantly there will be a level of delay. If you think how

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far he moved in that 82 seconds, one minute he is in a car, then he is

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out of the car, then he is running to the gates of Parliament. An awful

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lot happened in that 82 seconds. It is surprising and shocking, and you

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suddenly clearly understand that sequence of events and why it

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happened that way. But it also just reminds you that all violence is

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shocking and sudden, and it is very hard to have a response ready for

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it. That is the key point. It is incredible that so many lives are

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transformed so quickly, in such a horrifically short period of time.

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It shows how difficult it is to guard against this. Equally, it does

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remind us that this man was basically a rather tragic,

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inadequate loser with a criminal record, just like the man in the

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East who performed a much worse atrocity in the same sort of manner.

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That man also had a history of drugs and drink me he had no connection

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with Islamist. We are saying the same thing here, key has grievances

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against society and is using this cause in an explosion of horrific

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anger. It means we do have to be wary of some of the backlash that

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you get and how we approach the Muslim community, which often gets

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wrongly blamed on and just accept that what we are really fighting is

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a rallying call for people who are basically loses. You have worked in

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Westminster for a long time, security is already pretty tight.

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Clearly there are loopholes. Security is tight, but we are in a

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democracy and you have to have freedom, you have to have access to

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Parliament. There are people going in in huge numbers, there are

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meetings taking place, you want to see their MPs, we want

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schoolchildren to go in and see democracy in action. Democracy is

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also under attack, not just here but in a wider sense, and it is a

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symbolic value of having Westminster open to the public. You can never

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have perfect security, we have to recognise that. In many ways, it is

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incredible that this is the first kind of attack in a decade. That is

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a credit to the security services. I grew up in the age when IRA bomb

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attacks were going of the whole time, and we have seen the death of

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Martin McGuinness this week, and actually Irish terrorism killed many

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more people than this new form of terrorism today. The tragic reality

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is that society do have people who want to explode their anger against

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other people. Indeed. There was allegedly an attack in Islington

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last night, where somebody drove a car onto the pavement and pulled out

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nice, but because it is not terrorism, we can't have an armed

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policeman on every corner, and we certainly didn't after the killing

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of Jo Cox, which actually involves a firearm. We have to get everything

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into perspective. We have a superb security force and the police are

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doing a brilliant job. And as you say, it is what you don't see that

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tells you that security is working, not seeing with people with guns on

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the street, that tells you that security is not working. The front

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page of the Times, Boris Johnson, disgusting Google. This is a joint

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approach by Boris Johnson and Amber Rudd, both targeting social media

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websites. The Times has led the way this week with some strong stories

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showing how social media websites are allowing people to have all this

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nonsense on it, and how advertising are inadvertently funding extremist,

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and this has led to a bandwagon, leading to some companies

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withdrawing from it. This is typical of politicians, jumping on it and

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saying they have got to do something, and they are right, it is

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important. Google and Facebook and the like do need to do their utmost

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to eliminate this sort of material on there, and they do need to take

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action. It is great to see this attention at this time. Don't you

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feel like Boris Johnson is like King Canute, trying to hold back the sea?

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We are all out there putting forward our opinions, and to be releasing

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all of that simultaneously, websites, social media, it is a huge

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job. Do you think it is not possible? It is not possible, if you

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take down one website, another will pop up. If you are taking them down

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more quickly, they would just manufacture websites that go up

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every ten minutes. I just don't know, we have a president of the

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United States who takes to social media to put out his bile. It is

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very hard, I think, for these companies to distinguish. I do agree

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they should take out websites that are explicitly espouse terrorist

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activity, but I think it is very difficult to be able to do that.

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Moving on finally to the Mail on Sunday, page 15, taking issue with

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comic relief. Foul language, unfunny skits... Ban Comic Relief, fair

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enough. There has been a general opinion this year, heard elsewhere,

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that tend to macro is not funny, -- Comic Relief. I think the more

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fundamental issue is why is the BBC hosting Comic Relief because it does

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put out one particular viewpoint which is that aid is a good thing

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and eight works, and all these heroic medians are saving Africa,

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but there is a fundamental issue, why is the BBC promoting aid in this

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way? I am not sure what aid us at all, really. If you are running

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malaria projects, or HIV projects, all of those are fantastic because

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they are about changing outcomes for generations, and they are about

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changing behaviours and creating a healthy constant, but not this. OK.

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There we to leave it. Thank you both very much indeed.

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Many thanks to my guests and just a reminder that we will take a look at

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tomorrow's front pages every evening at 10:40pm here on BBC News.

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Good morning. It has been a glorious start to the day, most of us seeing

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sunshine from the word go. Some fantastic sunrise pictures have been

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sent

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