25/06/2017 The Papers


A lively, informed and in-depth conversation about the Sunday papers.

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will keep running the team and I'm determined that we will get the


America's Cup back. Hello and welcome to our look ahead


to what the the papers will be With me are the political


commentator and journalist, and the Foreign Editor


of the Sunday Times, Peter Conradi. Welcome to both of you. Let's have a


look at the front pages. The Observer leads with fire safety


in schools, saying proposals to relax standards are to be


dropped by ministers. Prince Harry dominates the front


page of the The Mail of Sunday, saying he considered


quitting his Royal role, The Sunday Telegraph headlines


"Blackmail fears after MPs The cyber attack is also the main


story on the Sunday Times, who report there was fury


at the time it took And the Express leads


with an image of Jeremy Corbyn - saying he ignored Armed Forces Day


invitations to appear Let's dip into at least some of


those over the next 15 minutes. Let's kick off with the Observer.


Bezy, take is to their front page, whether used the word "Panic" to


describe what ministers facing over fire safety. It is quite an apt word


for a lot of what has been going on in Whitehall and Council buildings


up and down the country, obviously still trying to work out what on


earth went one at Grenfell and what measures should have been put in


place before Grenfell and need to be put in place now. The Observer


kicking off by saying this is all about fire safety in schools


specifically. One of the shocking things is that in, I think, between


2007 and 2010, 70% of new school buildings that were being built were


installed with sprinklers. That has gone down to 35% because of this


loosening of the regulations that the accusation is the Conservative


Government was putting in place. Their argument was there are fewer


fires in schools, schools are better built, the sprinklers are


unnecessary, and unnecessary cost. Obviously everything has changed


now. David James, the Conservative chairman of the Conservative


all-party fire safety group has been saying for a number of years that


these new regulations were absolutely mad, "Crazy" was the word


he used, so he will be applauding this U-turn. So we are looking at a


complete change in attitude, Peter? I think we are. Reading the Observer


story, there is a quote in there, "School buildings don't need to be


sprinkler protected to achieve a reasonable standard of life safety."


As a parent, I think what is a reasonable standard of life safety?


I think the problem is that what started in an awful -- with an awful


fire in a tower block is go to spread across all of our buildings.


We're talking about schools here, elsewhere they are talking about


hospitals, the extent to which how many hospitals are clad? How many


other public buildings which Mark I think this is going to grow and grow


and be a bigger and bigger problem. And in the Telegraph, with more


reference here specifically to tower blocks and warnings over the


compulsory testing of some about installation. Precisely. What we had


with Grenfell Tower is we had insulation and we had cladding on


top of it and the attention so far has been focused on the cladding,


but looking at the installation now and the insulation is highly


flammable. That is the scary think you combine that with the chimney


effect and it is shocking stuff, really. And the problem is, as we


know, an inquest has been announced but if they are going to do their


job thoroughly, it is going to take a considerable amount of time. On


the other hand, people are saying lives are at risk and if we have any


repetition Grenfell, we will all, the political classes, will be held


culpable, so there is real tension between the two sides and also, of


course, after a disaster like this, if anybody starts to say we don't


need these extra regulations, they will be immediately accused of


putting lives in danger, so the politicisation of it is very


difficult to manage when you are looking at it from the regulators'


point of view. And the public inquiry, of course will be held, but


they take time and there might be an interim statement of some


description from that inquiry. But weirdly satisfy some of those who


want more urgent... It will give some cancers, then you are so many


people calling out conspiracy and cover-up and until you get some of


those answers out there, that will continue to feed into the story --


it'll give some cancers. And you have people living in tower blocks


who are being told they have to be evacuated and saying no, my tower


hasn't suddenly become dangerous since Grenfell went up. It is such a


issue. Let's talk politics more specifically with regard to the


Conservative Party. Daisy, staying with the Telegraph, Tory quote to


skip "Toxic generation" and installing a younger face as leader,


which would suggest going past the likes of Boris Johnson and David


Davis. Saying that generation are all tainted by the failure of the


Conservative Party to win the outright majority. It's like he


makes you smile, hopes are turning to the "Golden generation". Who are


saying this? And who is this golden generation? The Tory MPs, we are


told, who were elected in 2010, so... And also some of the more


junior Cabinet ministers, Dominic Raab, Priti Patel, Sajid Javid


Orrell mentioned. Jessye Norman is one of the 2010 alleged golden


generation and I do think he is an impressive man. Boris Johnson's


brother also mooted. We all know that if you are mentioned as a


possible leader, it probably is the kiss of death and it will probably


never happen but I agree that people of Theresa May's generation and the


big beasts, David Davies, whether it is David Davis or Boris Johnson, I


suspect they are... That they probably has passed. Interesting


that there is a reference to David Cameron in the peas, that when he


joined the leadership race in 2005 that he wasn't very well-known. That


is true but as Daisy says, talking about this golden generation but


that is a new definition of Goldemann, it is difficult to feel


inspired by anyone. -- of Goldemann. The only one I think who were


genuinely have a chance is Ruth Davidson, the leader in Scotland but


she is not an MP and she has said on many occasions she is getting


married, she wants to have a child, her life is in Scotland and that is


where she once the state. I have seen at least two commentators in


today's paper saying route, your country and your party need you and


of course, they could force a by-election, they could get her in.


It is possible. It looks a bit desperate, doesn't it, really? Joe


Johnson would be great, Joe against Boris, the Miliband brothers all


over again. But does the country want another if Tony and running the


party -- I suspect possibly not. Talking of Boris Johnson, he


features in the Mail on Sunday, which I have thrown open on pages 16


and 17, not entirely by accident, this is talking about further plots


and this is... Well, secret Tory battle cry of DD 4pm, David Davies,


and we have a photograph of him and Boris Johnson with Biff and Bob


alongside them. It is wonderful stuff. It all seems to be based on a


party that happened after the Queen's speech and for me, the best


bits in it is the role played by Sir Desmond Swain, a backbench Tory MP


for the New Forest West. Pictured with a marvellous hat on. A


marvellous Holmberg. We are told that he wears a homburg hat around


Westminster, swims a quarter of a mile in the Serpentine and he has


apparently said Theresa May is the only person who stands between us


and Bolshevism, in this 100th anniversary of the Russian


Revolution, but he is basically singing David Davis's praises. I'm


not entirely sure, I like Desmond Swain very much and he is one of the


more gullible members of the Conservative Party in every way but


I'm not sure he is in tune with what the general public one. I think


there are rumours that the Tories now have fewer members than the Lib


Dems. We don't know because the latest figures... As in party


members? Party members. And we know Jeremy Corbyn is getting party


members by the thousands by the day, so I just think they have got a real


problem with that and Conservative backers, I see in the Telegraph,


Alexander Timerco, Ukraine born businessman who has given the Tories


have ?1 million, he is calling for a dynamic, young and articulate new


leader and we all know... That is the same in every walk of life.


Money does speak in politics when your backers lose weight. What have


the Sunday Times written? Another twist on the saga, so much plotting


going on. This version suggests that Theresa May will step down and that


Phil Hammond will come in as a sort of interim leader. But not for a


full five years. No, it is a bizarre strategy, suggesting he is not


re-electable either but let's have him for a bit and we will have


someone else who is. Make that gives them time to mind the golden


generation. So he would take is passed the end of the Brexit


negotiations is the theory. But he would agree in advance that he would


stand down, so he would be totally lame duck, as bad as what we have


got and I love this quote that says "He told me, he beat Phil Hammond,


"That it Theresa May could be Prime Minister, so could he." There is a


ringing endorsement, because most people would agree she is not doing


a fantastic job. I would love to be a wall in the conversations between


those two. I wonder where these bits and pieces come from, briefings and


nudges and winks that go on in the Palace of Westminster. It is all so


unattractive and at a time when we have got serious problems, Grenfell,


Brexit negotiations, no Government to speak up, the deal with the DUP


still hasn't done, Northern Ireland still doesn't have a Government and


you think, really, I load of Tory leadership navel-gazing, is that


what we need? In Parliament, the other story highlighted, blackmail


danger, this cyber attack. Yes, the Sunday Times, a couple of minutes


they are making -- a couple of points they are making, the most


damning news is that it happen on Friday morning, they are having a go


at the Parliamentary Digital director, Rob Gray, who we are in


form earns ?110,000 a year and used to work for the Royal Opera house.


The complaint is he didn't tell MPs about this until 10:30pm, for fears


of the thing being compromised. I am not sure... If it was the Russians


what done it, I'm not sure what they would've made a correspondence


between MPs and their constituents, they probably would have been a


little underwhelmed by some of it but as ever, it shows how vulnerable


all institutions are to hacking. And people nowadays tend to be so much


more careful and more aware of the paper Trail, the e-mail Trail, that


can be left. But because most people suspect that there isn't anything


that interesting within most MPs' inboxes as far as Government or


party politics, they are concentrating on the fact that there


could be something juicy as far as blackmail or inappropriate messages


going back and forth and I suspect there will be a lot of nervous


researchers. "Did I really write that?" It couldn't possibly be me,


someone must have accessed my computer. Page two of the Mail on


Sunday, this is Justin Welby, the Archbishop of Canterbury with his


thoughts on the Brexit negotiations. I'm a big fan of the Archbishop of


Canterbury. I think he is brave and has been very outspoken on a lot of


issues since he took office and he is calling for, he says, to draw the


poison from Brexit, for a coalition and I think he is absolutely right


on that message, because Brexit is such a big deal and it should be, in


theory, above party politics. On the other hand, I've absolutely no faith


that anything will happen on this because it's been made such a


political issue over the last generation, Europe, leaving Europe,


after the referendum, that the parties are set up to fight punch


and Judy style with each other and I would say are totally incapable of


joining a coalition. These kinds of coalitions are needed on pensions,


the future of the NHS, there are so many issues that should in theory be


above party politics. It is part of a longer interview he has done. It


is a comment piece he has written that goes from the solidarity shown


over Grenfell to the lack of solidarity, the opposite, over


Brexit. Peter, take is to the Sunday Times, because you highlighted this


story outside the studio, this is with reference to what a Dutch


doctor is saying about end of life care. Yes, it is. A chap called


Marcel Levy, the chief executive of University College London Hospitals


and he looks at the huge amount of resources that are devoted to


patients in the last moments, the last months or weeks of their lives,


or whatever, and not obviously only from the point of view of cost but


from the point of view of suffering and says should we really be doing


this? Is it really worth it for people, to put them through that


last bit of dialysis, that last treatment, just to prolong their


life for another week, another two weeks, if they are going to spend


most of those weeks being treated? Why not just accept it is all over,


make the most of it, go on holiday with your family instead? My father


was in a hospice when he was dying and the difference in treatment that


you get in a hospice, which is obviously all about end of life


care, making it as good as possible in those last few days, to the care


that you get in a hospital was very very marked, because they are


experts in that area and they were so impressive in both treating the


dying person but also the family, and looking after them, and I learnt


a lot from that experience and ever since have been massively keen on


hospice is getting more funding and more recognition for the work they


do and I think the treatment you get when you come into the world, in


maternity wards, and the treatment you get when you leave the world are


so important and often don't get the funding or the attention because


people get so worried about the idea that withdrawing treatment is


somehow cruel and, actually, very often, it's the reverse. Time is


tight so a brief thought from you both on the fact that Jeremy Coleman


has made it onto the front of the observer with a microphone in his


hands speaking to the crowds at Glastonbury. All you have to say


about that is could you imagine any Conservative doing that? No, you


can't. Desmond Swain in our homburg hat. That tells you all you need to


know about what is going on in British politics. Because of his


attraction to youth voters particularly. It just underlines it,


Jeremy Corbyn superstar as far as Glastonbury is concerned. Yes, it


was all Jez, we can, apparently. Time has beaten us, that is it for


the papers, thank you to both and a reminder, we look at tomorrow's


front pages every evening at 10:40pm on BBC News. Daisy and Peter, go off


and do something even more important with the rest of your day. Thank you


very much.


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