Episode 16 The Phone Hacking Inquiry

Leveson Inquiry. There has been a clampdown on inappropriate

relationships. That is quite shocking. I'm quite dismayed

authorities the case. Chronically and fatally damaged place between -

- relationships between journalists and the place. The average Editor

Spence money every week on taking people out.

This week, the UK's most senior police officer, the head of the Met

Police, revealed a clampdown on inappropriate relationships with

the press following the phone hacking scandal that had forced his

predecessor to resign. But the week began with yet more they could --

negative allegations about tabloid behaviour. One day 52, the inquiry

heard the police investigating a serial killer in Ipswich found

their work jeopardised by Boult. This man was an investigator in the

Serious Organised Crime Agency, drafted in to keep the suspect

under surveillance. On two occasions, there were vehicles that

attended a boss. We identified them because they were in positions that

we would sit in if we were doing the same job. On the outskirts of

Ipswich, if they are trying to lock on to a surveillance team, the best

thing to do is for them to finish work and go back to their hotel. It

would have been pretty obvious we had stayed well outside Ipswich. If

you put a car on the main roundabout, to have a good chance

of seeing something. The inquiry heard News of the World hired a

former Special Service soldiers to do a job of putting police were at

risk. It is historically known that murder suspects before they

arrested may return to the scene of the crime and try to dispose of

evidence. They may try to move bodies or commit further offences.

If they thought they were being followed, they obviously would not

know that it was a legitimate police surveillance team or whether

it was a newspaper. If they thought they were being followed, they

might stop what they were doing or not do what they had planned to do.

A phallus of their lives had been weakened by it having to try and

avoid other surveillance teams looking for art's -- looking for us,

he may have gone and committed further murders while we were

dealing with something else. News of the World was not the only

Sunday tabloid there. We were then told that the Sunday Mirror had a

surveillance team, or some sort of capability which allowed them to

pick up the suspect and get to replace what they could be brief

him without us being able to follow. It could have been a few cars

designed with counters are Valence capabilities. This account was

later strenuously denied by the Sunday Mirror. A Daily Express

reporter and sit for his trade. What do you think of the evidence

you have heard this morning about some newspapers having surveillance

teams in the way we hope it? that did happen, that is quite

shocking. I'm quite dismayed authorities the case. But I have no

reason to believe it is not. It is quite unbelievable. Two other

papers were fined for the legs they went to reporting on Christopher

Jeffries - an innocent man arrested in a murder investigation. More

recently we talk about the murder of Joanna Yeates where the story

becomes so important to the public that caution goes to the wind.

Would that be unfair? It could appear to be like that. But you do

not think it is? Or you are being cautious. That is fair enough. I

understand. I think a lot of decisions that have been made over

the years, with hindsight, people would have taken a different course.

He explained her tricky decisions were made about where to take

police officers to lunch. You try and choose the restaurant close to

the yard and proportionate to the rank of the officers as a mark of

respect to them. They replace is that a very crowded and expensive

than you would try to go for the places where the tables were not

quite so close together or that might be less busy at lunchtimes.

With the chance of being overheard would be minimised. Carefully

nurtured relationships had been damaged by the Guardian's

revelations of the hacking of Milly Dowler's phone. It had an enormous

impact throughout the industry. A potentially fatally damaged

relationships between journalists and the police because we do have

relationships with trust. I was the news editor on the Milly Dowler

occasion and Andrea Perry was the crime reporter who was charged with

working on it along with other journalists. We spent an enormous

amount of time patiently building up relations with police, meeting

them for briefings, having coffee, gaining the trust. We established a

good relationship. Milly Dowler's parents gave us a statement on what

would have been her birthday. We had photographs of her that be

requested. All of that trust over the long period of time was blown

out of the water by these allegations. Lord Justice levees

and acknowledged his inquiry was already having an impact on the way

people behaved. In the old days, if you were invited along to an

Everyone is slightly conscious. People are being careful. They

don't understand quite what will happen and don't want to be on the

wrong side of it. The press had been careful in the past. When Raul

Moat was at large in making grave threats. They recoup some tapes he

left at a previous hideout. -- re reme tapes. The police

have agonised over what to do. We had a media briefing and were asked

to sign a disclaimer and go into a room. There was a police Loyer

there. Everybody was asked to impose a media blackout. I walked

out of that brief in and we called a double page spread instantly.

Other newspapers are the same. Coverage changed as a result. No-

one preached that embargo. -- of breached. After he had been

surrounded and ended his own life, we were able to report the true

nature of the threats he had made. But not until afterwards. That

shows the level of mutual trust that can exist between the media

and police. The atmosphere was to from last summer when the match

commissioner does on -- resigned in the wake of the phone hacking

allegations. A former Merseyside Chief Constable took over. He told

the inquiry that he found that all was not well. He says in a

statement that the media relations were not normal or entirely healthy

at this stage. Could you explain in what way these were abnormal

foreign help be. The phone hacking inquiry had started in 2011 at the

beginning of that year to have a deeper investigation. That meant

that we were not sure where that investigation would need. Woodenly

to one newspaper or to many? They were worried about the

relationships of the past. Was it your repression that relations

between certain sections of the M Ps, some individuals at the top

were overly close? There was the concern that seemed to be in the

public mind. Even within the Met Police, people acknowledged it. But

in my view, the policy established was in the right spirit. But

perhaps the practice of that leg to relationships with the press that

were too close. The feedback you are getting, one with the

manifestations of the overly close relationship between some members

of the M Ps and the press? Social relationships as opposed to

professional relationships. The Met Police became wary of anything that

could look like socialising. Christmas there were a couple of

events. We always meet in a pub and they invite senior members of the

various organisations. We tried to maintain some normality and a

social are met to the relationship but keep it on a proper footing. It

has been difficult to draw than wine given that we do want to

maintain a good professional relationship but we don't would be

criticised for being too close. said in certain areas, the lines

needed to be drawn more clearly. There should be no naming the

suspect by police or the press. It is intolerable. It is improper

legally and it is often wrong. barrister quoted from his witness

statements and the inquiry heard that things at the Met had changed.

All members of the management board are required to keep a record of

all contact they have with the media. We will not tolerate secret

conversations. Meetings should no longer be enhanced by hospitality

He wanted to change the way the press and the police dealt with

each other. He hinted that some on the media side were being too

reticent. When I said good evening he did not rock at me. He spent the

next 20 minutes not looking at me at the same table. Eventually he

stood up to get a newspaper. Justin Penrose, the Sunday Mirror Times

reporter, gave his opinion on counter surveillance techniques

during the Ipswich murders investigation. Do you know whether

anyone involved with its Sunday Mirror acted in relation to this

story or was a private investigator? No. Any one with

special forces experience? INAUDIBLE:. Was there any counter

surveillance technique involved when Mr Stevens was driven to the

car park to give the interview? almost laughed out loud INAUDIBLE:.

At first the Mirror's representative did not get much to

be hearing. A Sunday Mirror said Valence team was put on to the

police who were in turn surveying Mr Stevens. The key was no

surveillance team. The evidence of Mr Harris was not sourced about

something said to him during the course of a briefing on either

Tuesday or Wednesday. If you want to do something, by all means do,

but I think that to start to received submissions at this stage

on the evidence I have heard, will take a great deal of time.

barrister was later allowed to contradict those claims in more

detail. Reporters giving evidence here see that tighter rules on what

the police can say in that the papers, and in turn the public,

will not have access to the truth. The editor of the Ekho explained.

The chief constable has given guidelines which will be sent to

every police officer. There have been told they cannot speak to the

media without prior permission from the Press Office. When we asked why

these guidelines were created it was said they were tightening up

due to the Leveson Inquiry. seems the culture at local papers

was rather different. Last week in preparation for coming here I

looked at how much we spend in one year on entertaining people. This

took into account editors and probably 58 journalists. The

calculation I came up with was the average reporter, editor spent on

average 71p per week on taking people out. It is not something

that is in our culture and has not been for a very long time. Tales of

officers' meeting reporters in expensive restaurants did not seem

to apply outside London. This chief constable said he had never

accepted hospitality from the media. It is a professional relationship

based upon long-term understanding of what is going on. It functions

very smoothly without the need for any artificial creation of

relationships. That did not mean that no-one spoke to the media

without permission. We are losing 2,500 posts over the next couple of

years. That has made it to some difficult decisions and I am not

surprised that some people feel they want to take some of those

issues to the media. How do you know about the leaks? Have you been

able to track particular stories? am particularly thinking of, the

person in question appeared on local television. On day 54, an

unhappy Justice Leveson. Last week he said there appeared to be

evidence of leaks from the enquiry and asked everyone to sign a

declaration saying that they understood the need for

confidentiality and had not been leaking information. The newspaper

groups did not all do as they were told. The lines of my requirement

that participants provided the new declarations - I have received

information from: Bristow and from one of the newspaper called put his

opponents. Another newspaper participant said they would not be

providing these declarations prior to the deadline of 4pm today at on

the basis that to those from whom they are to be sought are busy

people. I find that explanation unacceptable. We are all busy

people. The editor of the Times was also frustrated. The Department of

Public Affairs. I think they are est Anne Frank. They quite often

give a partial picture. -- less than frank. They put out a press

released tomb' weeks ago about someone convicted of assault. The

metropolitan press release simply said APEC has been convicted of

assault and will be sentenced at a later date. What it did not say was

that he had head-butted a 14-year- old boy. What they said was not

misleading but it was not the full picture. He was not convinced by an

idea set out by Justice Leveson of keeping notes of meetings with

reporters. They will not find themselves up for promotion. They

will be sidelined. In my experience of the politics of policing, there

is a lot of back-stabbing and backbiting. The Chief Constable of

Strathclyde police said there was no evidence of extensive bribery.

have no doubt there are individuals in my organisation receiving money

from various people. I am not saying newspapers, but very his

people looking for the sort of information we have just been

discussing. That is inevitable. Chief Constable of South Wales

Police had his doubts that his source's involvement was involved

in ATV programme. We have engaged with some programmes where we

probably wish we didn't. A popular show which continues to be shown on

different satellite channels. Some of the behaviour you see on that

you would not want reflected into the wider community. It is the

number of years since the show came to South Wales police force a some

of theirs instances are not now representative. The inquiry has

heard of growing mutual suspicion between the police and the press.