Episode 17 The Phone Hacking Inquiry

officers told the inquiry about the difficulties they faced dealing

with the media during high-profile cases.

Ross Hawkins reports. My team found them very aggressive

towards us. She received over 160 telephone calls and text messages

from the media. It certainly hindered the inquiry to find and

When one crime grabs the public attention and the press pack

descends, how dot police cope? This week, the inquiry's heard what it's

like for officers who have to manage the media, even as they're

working to catch a killer. And on day 55, reminder that there's

nothing new about that challenge. Peter Sutcliff was convicted for

murdering 13 women and attempting to murder seven others in 1981.

This witness' statement said even then, the national press in pursuit

of the story of the Yorkshire Ripper... Rolled into Leeds and

Bradford with cheque books to lead the national and international

scrum for an exclusive at any price. There was no accountability then. I

think high profile incidents more recently in Cumbria have shown a

similar drive by national and international media, both print and

broadcasting, to grab whatever they can and then disappear again, pay

for it, if necessary. Those recent incidents included Derek Bird's

killings, the Taxi Driver who shot dead 12 people and injured 11

others in 2010. The local press had one approach to reporting the

consequences of his actions. didn't want to spend a lot of time

harassing victims, families, hammering on doors, looking for the

screaming sensational headlines. As I've said before, I know it's

repeating myself, but we have to live with these people and we

didn't want to cause further distress. National reporters though

behaved rather differently she said and the reputations of even papers

like hers had suffered from the bad publicity created at this inquiry.

We've had, I've been watching the Leveson Inquiry, I know how you

people work. Now, the stain from what has happened to trigger this

inquiry and a number of reports tends to spread across all sections

of the media. This was the chief press officer and chief constable

who had to deal with the Derek Bird murders and the reporters on the

story. They said some victim's relatives learned what had happened,

not from the police, but from the media. Some people were being

approached bit press before they'd been told by the police that their

next of kin had been involved. that's correct. Did you ever get to

the bottom of how that was, how that came to be? The really

difficult thing for us through all of this, in regard to trying to

represent the families, and I think if you put yourself in that

position, when they're contacted by a member of the media, whilst for

us it might seem logical to us, what organisation they're from and

what their name is, the families just did not have that. And so,

when we spoke to the families, they said a member of the press, but

they weren't able to identify to us who that member was. If I may

assist, some of it was around, this wasn't the first critical incident

that had happened in that part of the county. There was actually a

funeral that day, when it happened. The national media were already

there. Rolling news programmes are taking footage of a scene,

particularly one of the first scenes outside the taxi rank, where

there is a body covered and members of the family could identify who it

was from that. And handling reporters from national papers

wasn't easy. I think we found, at times, and particularly my team

found them very aggressive towards us. They found them very difficult

to please and it means that once you came back to them with some

answers, that wasn't sufficient, there were other answers. At times,

when they were dealing with them at press conferences, they found that

they were put into difficult situations where they had 20

journalists sort of shouting and requesting at them. They did find

that difficult. Grieving families felt harassed by journalists and

camera crews outside their homes. Police asked the media to back away,

but they didn't comply, she said. As for the press regulator...

response did you get from the Press Complaints Commission? At that time,

no response. The Press Complaints Commission were in contact with us.

The Press Complaints Commission were asking us that we ask people

to ring them with issues, but again... Who should be ringing the

PCC with issues? The families. families? A clearly interested Lord

Justice leave son asked to see e- mails to the PCC from the time.

think the overwhelming feel of the communities, certainly the people I

spoke to and elected leaders and local members of the church was

thiseninger and -- anger and dismay at the way the communities had been

portrayed, but more particularly, the families and those involved in

this incident were treated. Craig Mackie became the Deputy

Commissioner of the Metropolitan Police. He said it was considering

new media rules that would require officers to make a note of the fact

of every meeting they have with journalists and for members of the

met's management board it make those records available to the

public online. On day 56, the impact the press can have on

investigations themselves. The Surrey Police tried to find out

what had happened to Milly Dowler, the press were, in the words of

this police officer's evidence "mischievious". The media were at

times exploring hypotheses and seeking to develop them and test

them in a public environment, when in fact, there was very little fact

to support some of those things. quasiinvestigation being conducted

in public? Yes and played out in public as well. And seeking to draw

police officers into comment on those hypotheses where we were not

looking to do so. They were also influential. The fact the Sunday

Mirror called the investigation "rudderless" had been a factor,

according to one senior policeman, in replacing the senior

investigating officer. I think, if there's a perception that the

investigation isn't being run in a professional and thorough manner,

then I think, I'm talking about reality now as a senior police

officer and making judgments, you consider everything that is

available to you. You still make a judgment based on a number of

factors, primarily in this case it was based on operational factors.

To ignore what is being said by the press or by the families or by the

public, you can't do that. That's not how reality works. But the

judgment of police officers deserved this chief constable

suggested, some respect. I trust and rely upon the discretion of my

staff. They make life and death decisions day in, day out. If I

can't trust them to decide that a cup of coffee or a glass of wine or

a pint of beer at the appropriate time is not proplt, then --

appropriate, then I've lost the plot. Robert Jay quoted a statement

that made this witness' views on leaks equally clearment You say

deliberate leaking for money or other motives is extremely rare but

simply put is treachery. It was Colin Port's officers who

investigated the murder of Joanna Yates. They arrested her landlord.

He was villified in the press and he's accused the press of leaking

information about him. Not least because the editor of the Daily

Mirror told this inquiry the police gave off the record guidance that

it was Geoffries who had been taken into kust diz. -- custody. We

didn't do it. We don't announce people who have been arrested.

They're innocent and we don't do that. There was an inadvertant leak

which I talk about in my statement, which was a mistake by some people.

It was a genuine error. We sought to address that situation right

away with the journalist concerned. We certainly didn't give any off or

on the record comment that it was Mr Geoffries, who had been arrested.

The only time we did was the inadvertant leaks. Geoffries, who

suspected police of leaking information about what he'd given

them about what he'd seen, was mistaken. We did not give his

identity to anyone. He did say he saw three people. On two occasions

that I recall. In his tofdz this inquiry, he said that and I think I

quote accurately that he told no more than three people about his

sightings. That's incorrect. I completely understand why Mr

Geoffries can't recollect that. I've counted eight people,

including some people who were paid bit media for information. I've

also seen evidence that he told people that they should also tell

members of the neighbourhood watch. His recollection is flawed

unfortunately. Christopher Geoffries had another complaint,

why wasn't his bail lifted with the police confirming he was no longer

a suspect for three whole months? The police officer in charge of the

investigation explained. There were a pair of trainers, which we found

in Mr Geoffries' house which were hidden, under a kitchen unit,

behind a kick board. Those trainers had some, had a blood spot on them.

That was initially analysed and because of a sensitive forensic

technique which they had to use evench lay DNA profile was found

and Mr Geoffries could be eliminated. When the forensic lines

of inquiry were completed he was fully eliminated from the

investigation. That's when he was Those closest to the victim were

the targets of intense media attention. I think a good example

of this was Rebecca Scott, who was Joanna iates Best friend. She

contacted us, she had received over 160 calls and texts from the media.

The media were camped outside her home address and Hampshire Police

had intervened because they were threatening to arrest some of the

media for harassment. Police were told this was a crime that was

selling newspapers, reporters were hungry for exclusives, keen to keep

it on the front page. One phone with a possible story about an

overhaul of the inquiry team and Lord Justice Leveson symphathised

with the police. All this must put an intolerable pressure on any

senior investigating officer, and indeed on those who are supporting

the senior investigating officer who, after all, is trying to detect

a murder and unlike the television, it can't necessarily be done within

the hour? On day 57 an admission, Mark Duggan was shot dead by police

last summer. The Independent Police Complaints Commission wrongly told

a reporter there had been an exchange of fire, in fact, there

was no evidence that Duggan had fired at police. Days of rioting

followed a protest about the shooting.

One of my press officers indicated to a journalist as a result of a

question that it appeared that there had been an exchange of fire.

He shouldn't have done that, he did it verbly, he shouldn't have done

it and once we realised that had happened and it was definitely

incorrect, we put out an apology and we have apologised for it I

think on almost a weekly basis for the last period. It was a very

serious error, it shouldn't have happened. But for all that, she

said the media needed to consider their own behaviour. The bit that I

do feel the press need to reflect on is that they ask us the

questions, they want the the information and they are very quick

to criticise us when we put out the wrong information. They're very,

very unforgiving when we get it wrong. So, it is a challenge. I am

not complaining about that, it's part of our business. It's the

nature of the business we work in. But it does make life quite a

challenge. Lord Justice Leveson himself was also clearly aware the

press hadn't agreed with everything that he had had to say. I wasn't

suggesting that I was spending my life criticising the press, but

rather being criticised by the press. I am not complaining, but

neither am I making a point. The Chief Constable in charge of

communications policy at the Association of Chief Police

Officers thought journalists just wanted too much, too fast. Many

journalists are under intense pressure and with now with websites

for all newspapers, this desire to get some news and get it now is

probably more intense than ever. And as a result, this sort of

pursuit of one must have the story, I don't believe is in the public

interest. It's not in the public interest for them to attempt to

investigate the case on our behalf. ACPO's President had his own run-

ins with the papers. A case came up where a story was, in a way rather

silly, a defamatory story, I invented my own uniform and

designed a cap, badge in my house or something, which followed from

the riots where my profile by definition was fairly high and

attempts to give a sensible and factual response to that particular

paper to resolve the issue which would have resulted in a story not

being printed because it was entirely invented, took us nowhere

and, sadly, advice from the Press Complaints Commission was not that

powerful. Throughout this inquiry there's been a tension. If the

police get too close to the press they can be accused of

inappropriate behaviour. If they keep their distance they can fail

to communicate. So this public voice of policing had a warning

against retreating too far. I think it is inevitable in the short-term

that it will become journey - phrpbists -- journalists may find

it difficult as we become too defensive. I think we need to guard

against that. I think we do have to be confident in our own skins that

we can maintain professional relations -- relationships with

journalists and not impaoupb our integrity. It also in the routine

of our working day would stilt a conversation. Now chief kablt of

the police -- Chief Constable of the Police Service of Northern

Ireland was in charge of Leicestershire Police when the

media were reporting on the disappearance of Madeleine McCann

whose parents live in the area. One journalist has suggested the

Leicestershire force could have briefed reporters the Portuguese

police had misinterpreted forensic tests wrongly implicating

Madeleine's parents. The Chief Constable, though, disagreed.

for me and the group running the investigation, which was a UK

effort, was very much respect for the privacy of the Portuguese

investigation. We were not in the lead in relation to their strategy,

we were merely dealing with inquiries at the request of the

Portuguese and managing the very real issues of the local dimension

of media handling, so we were not in control of the detail or the

facts or where that was going. I still convinced we did the right

thing and I think integrity and confidence, particularly with the

Portuguese featured highly in our decision-making at that time.

was so concerned about the coverage of the McCann case he wrote to

newspaper editors. If I recall, there was one complaint made to the

Press Complaints Commission, which resulted in noting of the file, but

the speculation did continue, in spite of the first letter and I

felt obliged to write the second letter again appealing to the

better nature of the media and to understand the complexity of this

situation, so I think the fact I wrote two letters is indicative of

itself of the concerns of the UK effort to try and find...

question was what was the reaction to these letters? Not hugely

positive. Because the speculation continued. I think in this

particular case, Sir, the speculation, if it had been the UK

court, may well have undermined the fairness of subsequent proceedings

against whoever was charged with that offence, and secondly, it

certainly hindered the inquiries to find and trace Madeleine, simply

because of the reaction that came from the media speculation.

On day 58 the total poelt cost -- potential cost of the police

hacking inquiries was revealed. Two former and serving senior officers

had said this deputy mayor had questioned the resources put into

operation Wheating and he had, as he explained. As we moved into

early 2011, and the investigation was launched, and it became

apparent that it was going to be a large drain on resources, from what

is a valuable and finite resource, our detective capability, I was

keen to ensure that they were not undertaking this investigation to

the detriment of, for instance, rape victims. The forecast cost for

wheating and related is about �40 million. Now, our annual spend on

child abuse in London is only 36, we have, I think, at the moment

about 150 individuals engaged on these various investigations. We

only have 27 engaged on tracking down paedophiles. My natural desire

is obviously to see a reduction in harm in London, to those vulnerable

individuals, and that was merely what I was expressing to both the

commissioner. When it emerged Kit Malthouse had raised those concerns

with police one Labour MP called on him to resign but the deputy mayor,

who has responsibility for policing, hadn't expected this row.

notion that these questions are not legit mats one -- legitimate ones

to ask, when we only have 32,000 officers, I have to say I was

surprised at the controversy that seemed to cause. We are all here in

part because of the Met's past decisions, not to allocate more of

those resources to phone hacking. Now it's being asked whether