Episode 19 The Phone Hacking Inquiry

the Leveson Inquiry. James Murdoch and Rupert Murdoch both gave

evidence this week. Our correspondent was there.

This was completely unethical, wasn't it? There was a cover-up. I

also have to say that I failed. Over the decades, he has had a

place at the centre of British public life. The man who bought

News of the World in the 60s, reworked the way papers to do

business in the 80s. Then he changed the face of British

television. Rupert Murdoch now facing a scandal that even the

tabloids never expected. This week, James and Rupert Murdoch were

finally here, answering for themselves under oath and at length,

before the Leveson Inquiry and providing the sort of revelations

that would not have been out of place on the front pages of one of

their newspapers. Sky News admitted that one of its report is illegally

hacked the e-mails of John Darwin, who faked his own death. Sky News

says his actions were justified and in the public interest. What you

were doing was not just invading someone's privacy, it was in breach

of the criminal law. It was. Where does the Ofcom broadcasting code

give any authority to a breach of the criminal law? It does not. I

think it is highly unlikely in the future that Sky News will consider

breaking the law. The criminal law? Highly unlikely. I would not want

to... Journalism is at times be difficult business and sometimes we

have got to shed light into wrong doing. There might be an occasion,

but I think it would be very unlikely. If he this week was more

about newspapers and politicians and the views of insiders about how

their relationship really works. Everyone knows the Telegraph is a

conservative paper. What we have not heard before of was how the

chief executive of the group wrote to David Cameron before the

election. As we sat down to dinner, we said that we desperately want

you to be our next Prime Minister. We will do all that we can to bring

that about. We are no Fairweather friend. There were allegations

relating to Labour as well. Meetings with Tony Blair and Gordon

Brown. But with David Cameron, they exchanged text messages,

encouraging close contact between him and the Telegraph during the

length of the campaign. I suggested to the Prime Minister that if he

wanted to get the attention of the editor and wanted to get his

message across in the most efficient manner, he should talk to

him on the phone on a daily basis. James Murdoch arrived not to build

political relationships but to deliver evidence that would leave a

Cabinet minister fighting off course for his resignation before

the day was out. But first, phone hacking. His position is unchanged

since he's slowed to ministers, that he did not see a famous female

that suggested the problem went beyond one rogue reporter. --

famous e-mail message. Will position prior -- your position

before the Select Committee was that you were not shown that

message. That is correct. And that remains my permission -- position.

Nord at the time did he read a chain of e-mails with detailed

claims against News International. There are two possibilities. One is

that you were told about the evidence that link to others at

News of the World to Glenn Mulcaire and that this was in effect a cover

up. Alternatively, you were not told would do not read your e-mails

properly, and therefore this was a failure governance within the

company. Do you except those are the only two possibilities?

When the Sun decided to support David Cameron, James Murdoch passed

on the news personally. It was made clear to David Cameron by myself

that after discussions with the Edis at -- editor, News

International and my father, the Sun would either endorse the

Conservative Party will almost certainly move away from its

traditional or more recent support of Labour. News Corporation wanted

to purchase shares in BSkyB it did not already own. The problem was

that the government could stand in the way up the deal. After these

cable was reported as saying he had declared war on Rupert Murdoch, he

had the power to rule on the bid taken from him. -- Vince Cable. Two

days later, Rupert Murdoch had dinner with David Cameron and

Rebekah Brooks. -- James Murdoch. It was only a tiny part of the

conversation. Not really a discussion. The conservative

Culture Secretary Jeremy Hunt took charge of the BSkyB decision. The

inquiry saw 163 pages of e-mails from Fred Michel, News

Corporation's public affairs chief. The messages were between him and

Adam Smith, the chief adviser to Jeremy Hunt. Friend Michelle had

written that he had been in contact with Jeremy Hunt, even though he

had only been in contact with Adam Smith. However, Adam Smith provided

Frederic Michel with a great deal of information. Was News

Corporation expecting support from a party they had supported during

the election campaign? Absolutely and I would never leave anything

like that to a commercial transaction -- absolutely not. I

would never expect a minister to behave in an inappropriate way ever.

I would never do business that way. Prior to taking over Vince Cable's

role in relation to the BSkyB bid, Jeremy Hunt was said to have been

very frustrated he could not meet with James Murdoch personally.

These e-mails say that possibly contacting through mobile phone

contact surreptitiously would be more appropriate. I did not take it

to mean surreptitiously. The EU speak with Jeremy Hunt on his

mobile phone? He called me once to apologise for not being able to

make a meeting but that is the only thing I can recall. The inquiry

heard that Jeremy Hunt decided he sympathised with News Corporation's

case even though he was supposed to make the decision with the

independence of a judge. The e-mail follows that he understands fully

what is involved in the process but he once asked to take the heat with

him over the next two weeks, the political heat. He says very

specifically that he was keen to get the same outcome and wanted

James Murdoch to understand he needed to build some political

cover on the process. I took that to mean that basically he did not

want to take any heat alone and I have never met a politician who did.

Frederic Michel even claimed the law had been broken to help News

Corporation, with the company receiving the contents of a

parliamentary statement before Parliament was able to hear it.

Confidential statement, managed to get information on the plans for

tomorrow. And then be he now message continues - absolutely

illegal. What do you make of that? It was absolutely illegal in one

sense. Jeremy Hunt later told the House of Commons he had strictly

followed due process when handling the bid. The special adviser

resigned saying the content and extent of his contact with NewsCorp

was not excessive. Rupert Murdoch arrived at the inquiry to describe

his dealings with politicians over decades at the top. Decades that

saw him by the Sunday Times and transform the way they work. He had

lunch with Margaret Thatcher at Chequers when there was a risk the

government might refer his takeover to the Monopolies Commission. He

said he requested nothing of her. You wish to point out that nothing

was offered by Margaret Thatcher. It was a refrain the inquiry was to

hear it time and time again. He made a lot of Prime Ministers, but

he did not make demands or do deals. -- he met. I never gave

instructions to the editors... Sometimes, when I was available on

the Saturday, I would say, what is the news today? He did at... I am a

curious person who is interested in the issues of the day. I do not

like to hold my tongue. Rupert Murdoch says he got a call from

Prime Minister Gordon Brown. said, I must stress no voices were

raised. He said, well, your company has declared war on my government.

We have no alternative but to make war on your company. I said, I'm

sorry about that Gordon. Thank you for calling. End of subject.

could Gordon Brown have declared war and your company? -- on your

company? I do not know. I do not think he was in a calm state of

mind. Gordon Brown said that was totally wrong. Rupert Murdoch

stirred by his story. He cannot recall on his yacht he met David

Cameron in 2008. It is coming back to me vaguely. He was being flown

on my son-in-law's plane from his holiday in Turkey. She says I met

him on her boat. It does not matter. I do not really remember the

meeting. I think that is part of the democratic process. All

politicians of all sides like to have their opinions known by the

editors of newspapers, publishers as well. Hoping they will be put

across. Hoping they will succeed in interesting people. That is the

game. Soon after the democratic process propelled David Cameron

into Downing Street, Rupert Murdoch was invited for tea. He was asked

to use the back entrance. There were reasons for that. I did not

want to be photographed going in the front door. It was quite OK.

was making political friends in Scotland with the First Minister.

do not know Alex Salmond well. I had three meetings here. He is an

amusing guy. I enjoy his company. I enjoy talking with him and

listening to him. Why did you support his party? Can you recall?

It is a little emotional. I am attracted by the idea, but I'm not

convinced. I said we should stay neutral on the big issue. In Mao's

released to the inquiry suggested Alex Salmond was willing to back

the NewsCorp bid, it led to a row in the Scottish Parliament. Alex

Salmond said there was a risk of BSkyB taking jobs from Scotland.

There were plenty more rows to come on day 65 when Rupert Murdoch

returned. He said trusted employees had let him down. Now he went

further. There is no question in my mind that maybe even the editor,

certainly beyond that, someone took charge of a cover-up which we were

victim to. Where does it emanate? think from with the News of the

World. -- within. There were one or two very strong characters there.

They had been there many, many years. They were friends of the

journalists. Drinking powers, clever lawyer's. -- drinking pals,

clever lawyers. Tom Crone thought Rupert Murdoch was about him and

the allegation that he had taken charge was labelled a shameful Life.

Some might say this picture is consistent with one of a desire to

cover up rather than the desire to expose. For people with minds like

yours, I suspect so. I take that back. Then contrition. Apart from

the commercial side of it, you would really want to know what the

hell was going on because the news media was your, running through

your veins... That is the question I would ask, this was not just a

matter of commercial interest for you, this was at the very core of

your being. That is why you are being asked, were you not really

intensely concerned to know what was going on apart from everything

else? I have to admit that some newspapers are closer to my heart

than others. I also have to say that I failed. There were plenty of

regrets. He wished he closed the News of the World years ago. He

described how the 168 year-old newspaper was finally shut down.

was a decision taken very quickly. Brooks was still there, myself.

wished he had taken personal charge of the one News of the World

reporter who was jailed for phone hacking. I should have seen Clive

Goodman one on one. He had been an employee for a long time. I should

have examined him myself. I would have made up my mind, maybe rightly

or wrongly, was he telling the truth? It was all too late. The

lawyers by now were in control. Rupert Murdoch described the