26/06/2011 The Politics Show East


26/06/2011

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In the east we shine a spotlight on the council headed for almost one

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decade by Amman now convicted of fraud - Lord Hanningfield.

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And as strikes loom ahead a Union Square up over job losses and

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Apology for the loss of subtitles for 2516 seconds

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Good morning. This week - union members in public sector jobs take

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a hard line over job cuts and pension provisions. We are going to

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lose the services that our state has been built on. These are not

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services for scroungers and cheats. These are services that we need.

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First to the case of Lord Hanningfield. He will be sentenced

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for a fraught later this week. Lord Hanningfield is the only person to

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have been convicted after the expenses scandal who have the dual

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role of running a council. He was elected on to Essex County Council

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in 1970 and was leader for nine years before he was forced to

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resign. Now a police inquiry is looking into whether there has been

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amiss use of Essex taxpayer's money. Liberal Democrat on the council

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have called for an investigation into improper use of council

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resources following the recent trial of Lord Hanningfield. If we

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ask whether concerns were expressed during his time in office and

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whether anything was done about them. Our reporter is looking at

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whether the checks and balances on our counsellors are working.

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Lord Hanningfield was good at spending taxpayers' money.

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Expensive restaurants. He lived the high life. At his trial the jury

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heard he had a county council credit card and run up costs of

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�5,000 per month. He said in his defence at the trial that all this

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entertainment was essential as it helps the council negotiate

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contracts which would say that millions of pounds. He became the

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man crowned King of Essex. I have raised questions of transparency

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and accountability. How was it that a single individual was allowed to

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do what he did? It was Lord Hanningfield's use of a council car

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that led to his downfall. The driver would taken to the House of

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Lords and home again while he fraudulently claimed overnight

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house of Lords allowances. Or the chauffeur would have to wait while

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the boss entertained guests at restaurants. The spotlight has now

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turned on the expense claims he made and the charges he ran up at

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Essex County Council. Police are now investigating. It may turn out

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to be at all of Lord Hanningfield's claims and Essex were legitimate.

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The show for it also had a pass to the House of Lords. That was quite

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clear. I raised this with the chief executive at the time. He defended

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the position after great consideration, but Lord

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Hanningfield's role at the House of Lords was also blurred in so far as

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he would be raising Essex County Council matters in the House.

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then chief executive of the council says he warned Lord Hanningfield

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one decade ago about the use of the one decade ago about the use of the

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While it has not been alleged that Lord Hanningfield did anything

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unlawful at Essex County Council there were other concerns - about

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insuring value for money. The council was spending large sums of

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public cash on entertainment and foreign trips which some

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councillors questioned. There seemed to be no limit to the amount

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of money that was available. This councillor's husband who is also a

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councillor put in a Freedom of Information request about a trip to

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Virginia's attended by many people from the authority. I thought it

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was wrong that we should be seen to be taking trips abroad to America

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and China at the same time as saying we did not have enough

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funding to run facilities for up elderly people and children. We put

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in a number of Freedom of Information request. We have asked

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for a detailed breakdown of Lord Hanningfield's expenses. We also

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wanted to know what he charged to his council credit card. The

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council has declined saying it will not do so while there is a current

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police investigation. This Essex councillor is concerned

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about the number of foreign trips and how council money is being

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spent. I am an elected councillor. As an backbencher I know what my

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responsibilities are. I know what is reasonable. Ignorance cannot be

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used as an excuse or an opportunity. If other people knew that was

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happening then it they should be challenged. There has to be a major

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independent investigation into what has been going on at the County

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Hall for the last seven years. The evidence that came out at that

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trial indicates that there are many questions relating to the

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stewardship and governments of Essex County Council. Lessons are

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always learned. As in plane crashes. But planes go on crashing. There is

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no way that any political system can be made perfect. If you have an

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appropriate local culture of people who want honesty and integrity and

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public-spirited this, that in itself will make a difference. It

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also helps to have institutions in place, people whose job it is to

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find out whether things have gone wrong with a view to blowing the

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whistle. Two years ago the disgraced peer signed this strategy

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on it fighting fraud and corruption. The authority he once ran faces

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match questions once this investigation is over. He will be

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sentenced next week. Essex County Council could not

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provide anybody to be with us for the programme that they have said

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Apology for the loss of subtitles for 2516 seconds

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the programme that they have said Joining me now it is a Conservative

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MP for South West Norfolk and the regional organiser of the Unison

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union. Moving away from the specifics of

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Essex, if we can talk in general terms, what can council staff to if

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they have concerns over expenses or indeed any procedures within a

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council? There are a number of options. They are mostly to do with

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using a whistle-blowing policy. Most councils have a whistle-

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blowing policy. It is important that the staff have confidence in

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the internal systems to raise issues. I am not sure that that is

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the case. I have come across a number of instances were staff

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raised issues but these are ignored or the people that raise them are

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penalised. I am not talking about Essex County Council but I have

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been around local councils for a long time and this is my experience.

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Whistleblowers can lose their jobs. I have seen that happen. I have

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represented members and I have managed to get in the instated. The

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professor had it right. There needs to be an element of trust. But

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there needs to be a culture within the council where the systems are

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used. There needs to be scrutiny on the processes. It needs to be

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people whose jobs it is to ensure that expenses are done correctly.

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Talking in general terms, let us talk about the relationship between

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council leaders and chief executives. Leaders have a larger

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say in the appointment of chief executives. Yet as I understand

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that it is chief executives but are the check and balance for the

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leaders and what they are doing. There is conflict there. I do not

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think there is a conflict. In companies you often have a finance

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director who is responsible for making sure that everything works

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in the right way. They will be appointed by the chief executive,

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but they have a professional role and they are meant to blow the

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whistle if the chief executive is behaving in the wrong way. What we

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need is more openness and transparency to that outside so

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that the public can see what their money is being spent on. Sometimes

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we have to rely on staff to do the whistle-blowing but really tax

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payers should be seeing how their money is being spent. We have

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published all items of expenditure over �500. We have a system where

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MPs publish their expenses nationally. That is the kind of

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thing you need. Then people can see whether it is really value for

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money to be holding a dinner with these clients for these businesses.

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Up until now a local government expenses we are told had been

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largely taken on trust and that is not good enough. It is not good

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enough. That is one of the issues with MPs' expenses. You had a

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relationship between people where there was deference towards members

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of Parliament and therefore people did not feel right about

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questioning some of the expenses. Transparency and openness is a more

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effective way in the modern world where we have the internet, where

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people can publish a large amount of information at very low cost.

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That is a better way of making things work effectively rather than

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relying on trust. As I union do you have suggestions about how things

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could be improved? The first thing to realise is that the relationship

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between members and officers in the council is a complex one. There is

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a need for reform. When you have Cabinet style local government what

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happens is power get concentrated amongst a small group of elected

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members. Time and time again that group of people develop special

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relationships with senior officers in the council. What you have is

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that the scrutiny that you would otherwise have through full council

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is committed in that relationship. We will have to leave it there. We

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will come back to you shortly. On Thursday thousands of members

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will strike for the day in what is being seen as the first sign of

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union anger over cuts in pensions. Industrial action was also the main

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talking point at the Unison union conference this week. Union members

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are angry about the pain being suffered but will it lead to an

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autumn of discontent? Whether you call them necessary

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savings or ideological cuts, it is that people who work for a local

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authorities who have been in the firing line. 2654 people have been

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made redundant by county councils and local authorities this year.

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Another 9,000 jobs are expected to go over the next three -- over the

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next three years. I worked at a Council for 20 years. It felt soul

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destroying losing my job. It is a vocation. I put my heart and soul

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into it. There are plenty of stories like that. These two are

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former social workers. I appreciate that savings had to be made. We

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would have welcomed an opportunity to have been able to discuss

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whether there were economies that could be made with our service.

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Some people are talking about it autumn of discontent. Can you see

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that? Yes I can see that happening. People across. People feel do some

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power. They have not been included so far been thinking about how to

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do things differently. Sometimes when you were left without any

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other options that is what happens. That would hurt a lot of people.

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Cuts had a lot of people as well. That was the main talking point at

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their Unison conference in Manchester. It was clear from

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conversations outside and speeches inside that members are angry.

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we do not go on strike we will lose the services that our state has

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been built on. These are not services for scroungers and cheats.

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These are services that we need. They are cutting further now than

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Margaret Thatcher ever did. general secretary put his union are

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on standby for industrial action, but no ballot has been called yet.

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There is no doubt that people are angry that that does not mean

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industrial action is inevitable. Union leaders wonder how much

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support there would really be amongst their largely low-paid

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membership for what could be a long drawn-out campaign. What would the

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public think it services already under pressure from cuts were

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affected by strike action? That is why there are many in the union

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leadership who believe there is a lot of mileage to be had been

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talking. There are a number of areas where the Government has

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changed their mind. The Government is not making the cuts the first

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said they would. But in certain circumstances it may well be

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necessary for action to be taken. Back in Norwich are a two social

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workers are setting up a business to work with problem children. It

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is what they used to do before they were made redundant. My personal

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view is that the impact of the cuts has not really hit yet. The general

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public have not experienced that impact yet. As the increasingly do

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they will see more sense in any industrial action. Let us get this

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clear. There is a day of action next Thursday but you Union is not

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part of it. Why is that? It is not that we do not support the

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sentiments of our colleagues. That is a separate negotiation. I am not

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ruling out potential problems in the future, but the regional

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secretary Peter it nicely. No one likes to go on strike. It is a

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position you take when you have no other choice. Hopefully we will not

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be there in the future. The biggest cuts in public spending in eight

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years. Industrial action is inevitable. The discussion is about

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pensions. The problem is the disparity between public sector and

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private sector pensions and the underfunding of public sector

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pensions. That has been going on for years. We have an unfunded

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pension scheme that needs to be dealt with. I take your point, but

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are you saying that people are not angry about job losses? We were

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hearing that in excess of 9,000 job losses may occur in our own region.

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The unions need to work with the Government to find a better way of

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doing things. In a lot of companies people are agreeing to take pay

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freezes or pay cuts so that more workers can be retained. I would

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like to invite you to shadow me in a day of negotiations. My job

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currently is doing exactly what is being talked about. These

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discussions are ongoing. Pay freezes and pay cuts are happening

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but we are still seeing thousands of redundancies. As a union do you

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except that we are in difficult times and that sacrifices have to

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be made? Trade unions fully understand that. The question is

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why are we where we act at? What this government has done is to

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equate their deficit with public sector spending. The deficit was

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created by a greedy bankers and they are getting away three. This

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year they are getting �7 billion in bonuses. Public-sector workers are

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taking a hammering. That is unfair. There is also that issues with

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banks. We are working on reforming the banking sector. We have spent a

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huge amount of public money on and reformed public services and in

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particular the terms and conditions that we are operating with.

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Currently terms and conditions are too rigid. It is not benefiting the

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