Browse content similar to 26/06/2011. Check below for episodes and series from the same categories and more!
Line | From | To | |
---|---|---|---|
In the east we shine a spotlight on the council headed for almost one | :00:44. | :00:51. | |
decade by Amman now convicted of fraud - Lord Hanningfield. | :00:51. | :00:54. | |
And as strikes loom ahead a Union Square up over job losses and | :00:54. | :01:04. | |
:01:04. | :01:04. | ||
Apology for the loss of subtitles for 2516 seconds | :01:04. | :43:00. | |
Good morning. This week - union members in public sector jobs take | :43:00. | :43:08. | |
a hard line over job cuts and pension provisions. We are going to | :43:08. | :43:13. | |
lose the services that our state has been built on. These are not | :43:13. | :43:21. | |
services for scroungers and cheats. These are services that we need. | :43:21. | :43:26. | |
First to the case of Lord Hanningfield. He will be sentenced | :43:26. | :43:30. | |
for a fraught later this week. Lord Hanningfield is the only person to | :43:30. | :43:35. | |
have been convicted after the expenses scandal who have the dual | :43:35. | :43:40. | |
role of running a council. He was elected on to Essex County Council | :43:40. | :43:44. | |
in 1970 and was leader for nine years before he was forced to | :43:44. | :43:49. | |
resign. Now a police inquiry is looking into whether there has been | :43:49. | :43:54. | |
amiss use of Essex taxpayer's money. Liberal Democrat on the council | :43:54. | :43:59. | |
have called for an investigation into improper use of council | :43:59. | :44:03. | |
resources following the recent trial of Lord Hanningfield. If we | :44:03. | :44:06. | |
ask whether concerns were expressed during his time in office and | :44:06. | :44:11. | |
whether anything was done about them. Our reporter is looking at | :44:11. | :44:15. | |
whether the checks and balances on our counsellors are working. | :44:15. | :44:19. | |
Lord Hanningfield was good at spending taxpayers' money. | :44:19. | :44:26. | |
Expensive restaurants. He lived the high life. At his trial the jury | :44:26. | :44:31. | |
heard he had a county council credit card and run up costs of | :44:31. | :44:36. | |
�5,000 per month. He said in his defence at the trial that all this | :44:36. | :44:40. | |
entertainment was essential as it helps the council negotiate | :44:40. | :44:48. | |
contracts which would say that millions of pounds. He became the | :44:48. | :44:54. | |
man crowned King of Essex. I have raised questions of transparency | :44:54. | :44:59. | |
and accountability. How was it that a single individual was allowed to | :44:59. | :45:04. | |
do what he did? It was Lord Hanningfield's use of a council car | :45:04. | :45:09. | |
that led to his downfall. The driver would taken to the House of | :45:09. | :45:12. | |
Lords and home again while he fraudulently claimed overnight | :45:12. | :45:17. | |
house of Lords allowances. Or the chauffeur would have to wait while | :45:17. | :45:23. | |
the boss entertained guests at restaurants. The spotlight has now | :45:23. | :45:28. | |
turned on the expense claims he made and the charges he ran up at | :45:28. | :45:32. | |
Essex County Council. Police are now investigating. It may turn out | :45:32. | :45:38. | |
to be at all of Lord Hanningfield's claims and Essex were legitimate. | :45:38. | :45:41. | |
The show for it also had a pass to the House of Lords. That was quite | :45:41. | :45:50. | |
clear. I raised this with the chief executive at the time. He defended | :45:50. | :45:56. | |
the position after great consideration, but Lord | :45:56. | :46:00. | |
Hanningfield's role at the House of Lords was also blurred in so far as | :46:01. | :46:10. | |
he would be raising Essex County Council matters in the House. | :46:10. | :46:14. | |
then chief executive of the council says he warned Lord Hanningfield | :46:14. | :46:21. | |
one decade ago about the use of the one decade ago about the use of the | :46:21. | :46:31. | |
:46:31. | :46:54. | ||
While it has not been alleged that Lord Hanningfield did anything | :46:54. | :46:59. | |
unlawful at Essex County Council there were other concerns - about | :46:59. | :47:03. | |
insuring value for money. The council was spending large sums of | :47:03. | :47:05. | |
public cash on entertainment and foreign trips which some | :47:05. | :47:11. | |
councillors questioned. There seemed to be no limit to the amount | :47:11. | :47:17. | |
of money that was available. This councillor's husband who is also a | :47:17. | :47:22. | |
councillor put in a Freedom of Information request about a trip to | :47:22. | :47:26. | |
Virginia's attended by many people from the authority. I thought it | :47:26. | :47:32. | |
was wrong that we should be seen to be taking trips abroad to America | :47:32. | :47:36. | |
and China at the same time as saying we did not have enough | :47:36. | :47:42. | |
funding to run facilities for up elderly people and children. We put | :47:43. | :47:47. | |
in a number of Freedom of Information request. We have asked | :47:47. | :47:51. | |
for a detailed breakdown of Lord Hanningfield's expenses. We also | :47:51. | :47:56. | |
wanted to know what he charged to his council credit card. The | :47:56. | :47:59. | |
council has declined saying it will not do so while there is a current | :47:59. | :48:04. | |
police investigation. This Essex councillor is concerned | :48:04. | :48:07. | |
about the number of foreign trips and how council money is being | :48:07. | :48:14. | |
spent. I am an elected councillor. As an backbencher I know what my | :48:14. | :48:18. | |
responsibilities are. I know what is reasonable. Ignorance cannot be | :48:18. | :48:26. | |
used as an excuse or an opportunity. If other people knew that was | :48:26. | :48:34. | |
happening then it they should be challenged. There has to be a major | :48:34. | :48:40. | |
independent investigation into what has been going on at the County | :48:40. | :48:44. | |
Hall for the last seven years. The evidence that came out at that | :48:44. | :48:48. | |
trial indicates that there are many questions relating to the | :48:48. | :48:54. | |
stewardship and governments of Essex County Council. Lessons are | :48:54. | :49:00. | |
always learned. As in plane crashes. But planes go on crashing. There is | :49:00. | :49:05. | |
no way that any political system can be made perfect. If you have an | :49:05. | :49:11. | |
appropriate local culture of people who want honesty and integrity and | :49:11. | :49:14. | |
public-spirited this, that in itself will make a difference. It | :49:14. | :49:19. | |
also helps to have institutions in place, people whose job it is to | :49:19. | :49:22. | |
find out whether things have gone wrong with a view to blowing the | :49:22. | :49:28. | |
whistle. Two years ago the disgraced peer signed this strategy | :49:28. | :49:34. | |
on it fighting fraud and corruption. The authority he once ran faces | :49:34. | :49:37. | |
match questions once this investigation is over. He will be | :49:37. | :49:43. | |
sentenced next week. Essex County Council could not | :49:43. | :49:46. | |
provide anybody to be with us for the programme that they have said | :49:46. | :49:56. | |
:49:56. | :49:56. | ||
Apology for the loss of subtitles for 2516 seconds | :49:56. | :50:51. | |
the programme that they have said Joining me now it is a Conservative | :50:51. | :50:55. | |
MP for South West Norfolk and the regional organiser of the Unison | :50:55. | :51:01. | |
union. Moving away from the specifics of | :51:01. | :51:06. | |
Essex, if we can talk in general terms, what can council staff to if | :51:06. | :51:11. | |
they have concerns over expenses or indeed any procedures within a | :51:11. | :51:21. | |
:51:21. | :51:21. | ||
council? There are a number of options. They are mostly to do with | :51:21. | :51:26. | |
using a whistle-blowing policy. Most councils have a whistle- | :51:26. | :51:33. | |
blowing policy. It is important that the staff have confidence in | :51:33. | :51:39. | |
the internal systems to raise issues. I am not sure that that is | :51:39. | :51:45. | |
the case. I have come across a number of instances were staff | :51:45. | :51:49. | |
raised issues but these are ignored or the people that raise them are | :51:49. | :51:53. | |
penalised. I am not talking about Essex County Council but I have | :51:53. | :51:58. | |
been around local councils for a long time and this is my experience. | :51:58. | :52:03. | |
Whistleblowers can lose their jobs. I have seen that happen. I have | :52:03. | :52:13. | |
:52:13. | :52:13. | ||
represented members and I have managed to get in the instated. The | :52:13. | :52:18. | |
professor had it right. There needs to be an element of trust. But | :52:18. | :52:22. | |
there needs to be a culture within the council where the systems are | :52:22. | :52:31. | |
used. There needs to be scrutiny on the processes. It needs to be | :52:31. | :52:36. | |
people whose jobs it is to ensure that expenses are done correctly. | :52:36. | :52:41. | |
Talking in general terms, let us talk about the relationship between | :52:41. | :52:45. | |
council leaders and chief executives. Leaders have a larger | :52:45. | :52:49. | |
say in the appointment of chief executives. Yet as I understand | :52:50. | :52:54. | |
that it is chief executives but are the check and balance for the | :52:54. | :53:00. | |
leaders and what they are doing. There is conflict there. I do not | :53:00. | :53:05. | |
think there is a conflict. In companies you often have a finance | :53:05. | :53:08. | |
director who is responsible for making sure that everything works | :53:08. | :53:12. | |
in the right way. They will be appointed by the chief executive, | :53:12. | :53:17. | |
but they have a professional role and they are meant to blow the | :53:17. | :53:21. | |
whistle if the chief executive is behaving in the wrong way. What we | :53:21. | :53:25. | |
need is more openness and transparency to that outside so | :53:25. | :53:29. | |
that the public can see what their money is being spent on. Sometimes | :53:29. | :53:33. | |
we have to rely on staff to do the whistle-blowing but really tax | :53:33. | :53:40. | |
payers should be seeing how their money is being spent. We have | :53:40. | :53:45. | |
published all items of expenditure over �500. We have a system where | :53:45. | :53:48. | |
MPs publish their expenses nationally. That is the kind of | :53:48. | :53:54. | |
thing you need. Then people can see whether it is really value for | :53:54. | :54:00. | |
money to be holding a dinner with these clients for these businesses. | :54:00. | :54:04. | |
Up until now a local government expenses we are told had been | :54:04. | :54:09. | |
largely taken on trust and that is not good enough. It is not good | :54:09. | :54:16. | |
enough. That is one of the issues with MPs' expenses. You had a | :54:16. | :54:20. | |
relationship between people where there was deference towards members | :54:20. | :54:22. | |
of Parliament and therefore people did not feel right about | :54:22. | :54:29. | |
questioning some of the expenses. Transparency and openness is a more | :54:29. | :54:33. | |
effective way in the modern world where we have the internet, where | :54:33. | :54:37. | |
people can publish a large amount of information at very low cost. | :54:37. | :54:41. | |
That is a better way of making things work effectively rather than | :54:41. | :54:46. | |
relying on trust. As I union do you have suggestions about how things | :54:46. | :54:52. | |
could be improved? The first thing to realise is that the relationship | :54:52. | :54:57. | |
between members and officers in the council is a complex one. There is | :54:57. | :55:02. | |
a need for reform. When you have Cabinet style local government what | :55:02. | :55:06. | |
happens is power get concentrated amongst a small group of elected | :55:06. | :55:12. | |
members. Time and time again that group of people develop special | :55:12. | :55:17. | |
relationships with senior officers in the council. What you have is | :55:17. | :55:21. | |
that the scrutiny that you would otherwise have through full council | :55:21. | :55:27. | |
is committed in that relationship. We will have to leave it there. We | :55:27. | :55:32. | |
will come back to you shortly. On Thursday thousands of members | :55:32. | :55:36. | |
will strike for the day in what is being seen as the first sign of | :55:36. | :55:42. | |
union anger over cuts in pensions. Industrial action was also the main | :55:42. | :55:47. | |
talking point at the Unison union conference this week. Union members | :55:47. | :55:52. | |
are angry about the pain being suffered but will it lead to an | :55:52. | :55:59. | |
autumn of discontent? Whether you call them necessary | :55:59. | :56:03. | |
savings or ideological cuts, it is that people who work for a local | :56:03. | :56:09. | |
authorities who have been in the firing line. 2654 people have been | :56:09. | :56:15. | |
made redundant by county councils and local authorities this year. | :56:15. | :56:19. | |
Another 9,000 jobs are expected to go over the next three -- over the | :56:20. | :56:28. | |
next three years. I worked at a Council for 20 years. It felt soul | :56:29. | :56:34. | |
destroying losing my job. It is a vocation. I put my heart and soul | :56:34. | :56:39. | |
into it. There are plenty of stories like that. These two are | :56:39. | :56:44. | |
former social workers. I appreciate that savings had to be made. We | :56:44. | :56:49. | |
would have welcomed an opportunity to have been able to discuss | :56:49. | :56:52. | |
whether there were economies that could be made with our service. | :56:52. | :56:56. | |
Some people are talking about it autumn of discontent. Can you see | :56:56. | :57:03. | |
that? Yes I can see that happening. People across. People feel do some | :57:03. | :57:07. | |
power. They have not been included so far been thinking about how to | :57:07. | :57:13. | |
do things differently. Sometimes when you were left without any | :57:13. | :57:18. | |
other options that is what happens. That would hurt a lot of people. | :57:19. | :57:25. | |
Cuts had a lot of people as well. That was the main talking point at | :57:25. | :57:29. | |
their Unison conference in Manchester. It was clear from | :57:29. | :57:33. | |
conversations outside and speeches inside that members are angry. | :57:33. | :57:37. | |
we do not go on strike we will lose the services that our state has | :57:37. | :57:42. | |
been built on. These are not services for scroungers and cheats. | :57:42. | :57:52. | |
:57:52. | :57:54. | ||
These are services that we need. They are cutting further now than | :57:54. | :57:59. | |
Margaret Thatcher ever did. general secretary put his union are | :57:59. | :58:05. | |
on standby for industrial action, but no ballot has been called yet. | :58:05. | :58:10. | |
There is no doubt that people are angry that that does not mean | :58:10. | :58:14. | |
industrial action is inevitable. Union leaders wonder how much | :58:14. | :58:17. | |
support there would really be amongst their largely low-paid | :58:17. | :58:22. | |
membership for what could be a long drawn-out campaign. What would the | :58:22. | :58:26. | |
public think it services already under pressure from cuts were | :58:26. | :58:31. | |
affected by strike action? That is why there are many in the union | :58:31. | :58:34. | |
leadership who believe there is a lot of mileage to be had been | :58:34. | :58:41. | |
talking. There are a number of areas where the Government has | :58:41. | :58:46. | |
changed their mind. The Government is not making the cuts the first | :58:46. | :58:53. | |
said they would. But in certain circumstances it may well be | :58:53. | :59:03. | |
necessary for action to be taken. Back in Norwich are a two social | :59:03. | :59:06. | |
workers are setting up a business to work with problem children. It | :59:06. | :59:10. | |
is what they used to do before they were made redundant. My personal | :59:10. | :59:17. | |
view is that the impact of the cuts has not really hit yet. The general | :59:17. | :59:26. | |
public have not experienced that impact yet. As the increasingly do | :59:26. | :59:30. | |
they will see more sense in any industrial action. Let us get this | :59:30. | :59:35. | |
clear. There is a day of action next Thursday but you Union is not | :59:35. | :59:40. | |
part of it. Why is that? It is not that we do not support the | :59:40. | :59:47. | |
sentiments of our colleagues. That is a separate negotiation. I am not | :59:47. | :59:52. | |
ruling out potential problems in the future, but the regional | :59:52. | :59:58. | |
secretary Peter it nicely. No one likes to go on strike. It is a | :59:58. | :00:02. | |
position you take when you have no other choice. Hopefully we will not | :00:02. | :00:07. | |
be there in the future. The biggest cuts in public spending in eight | :00:07. | :00:17. | |
:00:17. | :00:17. | ||
years. Industrial action is inevitable. The discussion is about | :00:17. | :00:24. | |
pensions. The problem is the disparity between public sector and | :00:24. | :00:26. | |
private sector pensions and the underfunding of public sector | :00:26. | :00:31. | |
pensions. That has been going on for years. We have an unfunded | :00:31. | :00:36. | |
pension scheme that needs to be dealt with. I take your point, but | :00:36. | :00:40. | |
are you saying that people are not angry about job losses? We were | :00:40. | :00:47. | |
hearing that in excess of 9,000 job losses may occur in our own region. | :00:47. | :00:50. | |
The unions need to work with the Government to find a better way of | :00:50. | :00:54. | |
doing things. In a lot of companies people are agreeing to take pay | :00:54. | :01:04. | |
freezes or pay cuts so that more workers can be retained. I would | :01:04. | :01:10. | |
like to invite you to shadow me in a day of negotiations. My job | :01:10. | :01:17. | |
currently is doing exactly what is being talked about. These | :01:17. | :01:22. | |
discussions are ongoing. Pay freezes and pay cuts are happening | :01:22. | :01:27. | |
but we are still seeing thousands of redundancies. As a union do you | :01:27. | :01:31. | |
except that we are in difficult times and that sacrifices have to | :01:31. | :01:40. | |
be made? Trade unions fully understand that. The question is | :01:40. | :01:48. | |
why are we where we act at? What this government has done is to | :01:48. | :01:53. | |
equate their deficit with public sector spending. The deficit was | :01:53. | :01:58. | |
created by a greedy bankers and they are getting away three. This | :01:58. | :02:03. | |
year they are getting �7 billion in bonuses. Public-sector workers are | :02:03. | :02:09. | |
taking a hammering. That is unfair. There is also that issues with | :02:09. | :02:14. | |
banks. We are working on reforming the banking sector. We have spent a | :02:14. | :02:20. | |
huge amount of public money on and reformed public services and in | :02:20. | :02:24. | |
particular the terms and conditions that we are operating with. | :02:24. | :02:28. | |
Currently terms and conditions are too rigid. It is not benefiting the | :02:28. | :02:34. |