Browse content similar to 27/11/2011. Check below for episodes and series from the same categories and more!
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This week on the Politics Show: It promises to be one of the | :00:05. | :00:08. | |
biggest strikes in British history, but have both sides made avoidable | :00:08. | :00:13. | |
disruption inevitable? We'll ask the TUC General Secretary why he's | :00:13. | :00:15. | |
determined to press ahead with Wednesday's walkout over public | :00:15. | :00:20. | |
sector pensions when talks seemed to be making progress. | :00:20. | :00:23. | |
And Francis Maude, one of the ministers leading the negotiations, | :00:23. | :00:26. | |
joins us to answer charges that his rhetoric has inflamed, rather than | :00:26. | :00:32. | |
calmed, the dispute. And what about Labour? We'll ask | :00:32. | :00:35. | |
Shadow Chief Secretary Rachel Reeves if her party will support | :00:35. | :00:43. | |
the day of action. A yes or no answer will do. | :00:43. | :00:48. | |
With the economy flatlining or even sliding towards a possible new | :00:48. | :00:52. | |
recession, I'll report on how the Chancellor can boost growth while | :00:52. | :00:56. | |
sticking to his plans to reduce the deficit. | :00:56. | :01:01. | |
In London, how constituency boundary changes could affect the | :01:01. | :01:04. | |
capital's make-up. And the proposed relaxation of | :01:04. | :01:14. | |
:01:14. | :01:19. | ||
licensing laws for music venues, is With me for the programme today are | :01:19. | :01:22. | |
Jackie Ashley, who's a political commentator for the Guardian, and | :01:22. | :01:30. | |
Tom Newton Dunn, political editor of the Sun. First the news. | :01:30. | :01:33. | |
The Chancellor has been giving more details of his plans to make | :01:33. | :01:36. | |
billions of pounds available in bank loans to businesses. The | :01:36. | :01:40. | |
Government will act as a guarantor for the loans to small and medium | :01:40. | :01:43. | |
sized enterprises. It comes as George Osborne is preparing his | :01:43. | :01:47. | |
Autumn Statement this week. Labour says the so called "credit easing" | :01:47. | :01:50. | |
plan doesn't go far enough, as our business correspondent Joe Lynam | :01:50. | :02:00. | |
:02:00. | :02:00. | ||
The eurozone crisis is having what the government calls a chilling | :02:00. | :02:04. | |
effect on the British economy which could in theory lead to a complete | :02:04. | :02:08. | |
seizing up of bank lending to companies here. But as the | :02:08. | :02:12. | |
Chancellor prepares to unveil his Autumn Statement, he was still | :02:12. | :02:15. | |
confident that his deficit reduction plan was going to work. | :02:15. | :02:18. | |
We have got a deficit reduction plan that has brought us record low | :02:18. | :02:23. | |
interest rates, it has turned us that AAA credit rating. We are | :02:23. | :02:26. | |
absolutely going to stick to that plan because that is what is | :02:27. | :02:32. | |
helping Britain weather this storm and is also helping us lay the | :02:32. | :02:35. | |
foundations of a stronger economy. To do that he gave us more detail | :02:35. | :02:39. | |
on credit easing, his plan to boost lending. The Government would act | :02:39. | :02:44. | |
as a guarantor for lending by banks to small firms, by enabling lenders | :02:44. | :02:48. | |
to pass on cheaper borrowing costs to companies. A second programme | :02:48. | :02:52. | |
would see the government taking a stake in investment funds which | :02:52. | :02:55. | |
make loans to medium-sized companies, and the third idea hopes | :02:55. | :02:59. | |
to create an alternative to traditional bank loans by | :02:59. | :03:03. | |
encouraging firms to send -- sell bonds to the market. Although the | :03:03. | :03:08. | |
Treasury said the skins will not affect the deficit, Ed Balls said | :03:08. | :03:12. | |
it still would not be enough to boost growth. It was a big choice a | :03:12. | :03:17. | |
year ago. We were out on a limb in advocating a different approach. | :03:17. | :03:21. | |
Actually, increasingly, the IMF, business organisations, | :03:22. | :03:25. | |
Conservative MPs are all seeing that the plan has not worked. It | :03:25. | :03:31. | |
has led to more borrowing, we need a different course. On Tuesday the | :03:31. | :03:34. | |
Chancellor will set out the rest of the measures aimed at helping a | :03:34. | :03:39. | |
flagging economy. At the same time the Office for Budget | :03:39. | :03:43. | |
Responsibility, which he set up, was likely to say just how weak | :03:43. | :03:47. | |
that economy is. Her 100,000 more jobs could be cut in | :03:48. | :03:50. | |
the public sector, according to an independent forecasting group. The | :03:50. | :03:53. | |
Ernst and Young ITEM Club says the Government has been conservative in | :03:53. | :03:56. | |
its estimate of the number of job losses required to meet spending | :03:56. | :03:59. | |
cuts. It expects the predicted losses over the next five years to | :03:59. | :04:03. | |
be increased from 400,000 to around 500,000. | :04:03. | :04:06. | |
A search is continuing for five Russian seamen who are missing | :04:06. | :04:09. | |
after their cargo ship sank in gale force winds off the coast of | :04:09. | :04:13. | |
Anglesey. Two crew members were rescued from the sea, a third has | :04:13. | :04:17. | |
also been recovered, but his condition isn't known. The ship, | :04:17. | :04:20. | |
the Swanland, was carrying 3,000 tonnes of limestone. Last year, the | :04:20. | :04:23. | |
same ship was grounded off the coast of Cornwall. | :04:23. | :04:26. | |
A four-year-old girl has been killed in a motorway crash | :04:26. | :04:35. | |
involving several cars and a lorry near Birmingham. Second girl in the | :04:35. | :04:41. | |
same car was seriously injured. Six other people were taken to hospital. | :04:41. | :04:43. | |
A man has been arrested on suspicion of causing death by | :04:43. | :04:49. | |
dangerous driving. Iran's parliament has voted to | :04:49. | :04:52. | |
downgrade diplomatic and economic ties with the UK in retaliation for | :04:52. | :04:54. | |
Western sanctions imposed over Tehran's nuclear programme. If the | :04:54. | :04:57. | |
bill is passed, the government will downgrade ties within two weeks, | :04:57. | :04:59. | |
forcing the British Ambassador out of the country. This move comes | :04:59. | :05:02. | |
less than a week after London banned all British financial | :05:02. | :05:07. | |
institutions from doing business with their Iranian counterparts. | :05:07. | :05:10. | |
That's it from me. Thank you. | :05:10. | :05:13. | |
There will be much finger pointing in the Commons on Tuesday when the | :05:13. | :05:19. | |
Chancellor delivers his Autumn Labour and the coalition on how to | :05:19. | :05:24. | |
manage the economy. But are the differences really that great? Do | :05:24. | :05:30. | |
you think there is a sense in which it is convenient for both Tories | :05:30. | :05:33. | |
and Labour to exaggerate how far apart they are? To an extent, if | :05:33. | :05:37. | |
you look at the figures, there's not much difference between the | :05:37. | :05:41. | |
amount both sides would be spending, but you have to take into account | :05:41. | :05:44. | |
the Conservatives were dragged kicking and screaming to where we | :05:44. | :05:52. | |
are now by the Lib Dems. A lot of the measures we are seeing, which I | :05:52. | :05:56. | |
call Plan A class... Jobs and infrastructure. They have been | :05:56. | :05:59. | |
pushed by the Lib Dems, I don't think George Osborne by himself | :05:59. | :06:03. | |
would have done them. You are now seeing the Lib Dems, who are more | :06:03. | :06:09. | |
naturally in tune with Labour, have been making some headway. Do you | :06:09. | :06:17. | |
buy that analysis? I'd do. If you look at the numbers, the total | :06:17. | :06:21. | |
spending package of 700 billion. From that perspective it is small. | :06:22. | :06:26. | |
Where I disagree with that is there's still this Faustian gulf | :06:26. | :06:29. | |
between left and right, Tory, Labour, on the bigger picture, | :06:29. | :06:36. | |
which is the deficit reduction targets, whether you stick to that | :06:36. | :06:42. | |
precise spending package, or whether you will get to it in 2015 | :06:42. | :06:48. | |
or 2017, or whether you borrow to create growth. Keane's inverses the | :06:48. | :06:55. | |
supply-side. Still far apart. you're going to have measures, | :06:55. | :06:58. | |
infrastructure projects, credit easing, help for small businesses, | :06:58. | :07:03. | |
a jobs fund to get young people back to work. A tacit | :07:03. | :07:06. | |
acknowledgement that the debt reduction will not get there by | :07:06. | :07:10. | |
2015. They have been brought on board by the Lib Dems. We should | :07:10. | :07:15. | |
give them a bit of credit for once for pulling the Conservatives over | :07:15. | :07:19. | |
to the right side! Sounds like you have got the memory already! I | :07:19. | :07:25. | |
haven't got that yet. 10 questions to ask... What is most interesting | :07:25. | :07:28. | |
about this week is not the tinkering that George Osborne does | :07:28. | :07:31. | |
in the Autumn Statement, because he doesn't have much room for | :07:31. | :07:35. | |
manoeuvre and we probably had most of it last week with the housing | :07:35. | :07:39. | |
staff and employment law changes and youth culture act. It is to | :07:39. | :07:43. | |
redefine the battlefield on what exactly is Plan A. I can't define | :07:43. | :07:48. | |
it. Is it deficit-reduction by 2015? Not really because that will | :07:48. | :07:54. | |
not work any more. What is it? It is slightly dry stuff that we | :07:54. | :07:57. | |
obsess about, talking about matters that don't mean a lot to normal | :07:57. | :08:02. | |
people, but how do we reshape... Where are the jobs coming from, | :08:02. | :08:07. | |
more importantly? Part of Plan A was we would cut public sector jobs | :08:07. | :08:13. | |
and the private sector would step in, but they haven't. We will leave | :08:13. | :08:15. | |
that there. Now, two million workers are | :08:15. | :08:18. | |
expected to take to the streets on Wednesday. Schools will close, | :08:18. | :08:21. | |
travel and border checks will be disrupted and operations will be | :08:21. | :08:23. | |
cancelled. You might think such drastic action was a measure of | :08:23. | :08:26. | |
last resort, taken after months of talks mired in deadlock. But after | :08:26. | :08:29. | |
a Government concession on public sector pensions which the unions | :08:29. | :08:32. | |
themselves described as a "material move", it might seem puzzling that | :08:32. | :08:36. | |
we are on the brink of one of the biggest walkouts in British history. | :08:36. | :08:38. | |
Earlier this morning, I spoke to the TUC General Secretary Brendan | :08:38. | :08:41. | |
Barber. I began by asking him whether the public would have more | :08:41. | :08:44. | |
sympathy with the strike if the Government hadn't shown such | :08:44. | :08:52. | |
willingness to negotiate. They have been intransigent, I'm afraid. On | :08:52. | :08:57. | |
some of the key issues involved in this difficult issue, they have | :08:57. | :09:02. | |
simply been unwilling to reconsider their position at all. That has | :09:03. | :09:07. | |
made it extremely difficult. said on November 2nd, I'm glad | :09:07. | :09:09. | |
they've made a move, it is important that the government has | :09:09. | :09:14. | |
moved, it has come late and we welcome they have made a move today. | :09:14. | :09:18. | |
It is a material move in their position. That doesn't sound like | :09:18. | :09:24. | |
intransigence. But even on some of those issues that were involved in | :09:24. | :09:28. | |
the proposals they set out early in November, we are still awaiting | :09:28. | :09:35. | |
absolute clarity on exactly what those proposals amount to. Why not | :09:35. | :09:39. | |
wait for the clarity and then go on strike if you're unhappy with what | :09:39. | :09:43. | |
you get? There are a whole number of different issues involved in the | :09:43. | :09:46. | |
negotiations which need to be addressed and need to be resolved. | :09:46. | :09:50. | |
On some of those, as things stand, the government had shown no | :09:51. | :09:56. | |
willingness to reconsider their position. On others, they have | :09:56. | :10:00. | |
failed to even present the information to enable us to clearly | :10:00. | :10:04. | |
understand what some of the proposals amount to. That has made | :10:05. | :10:08. | |
it extraordinarily difficult. But nobody is taking this action this | :10:09. | :10:13. | |
week likely. We have been trying to resolve this problem through those | :10:13. | :10:19. | |
negotiations for almost the whole of this year. Nobody has been | :10:19. | :10:24. | |
rushing to action. But the sense of frustration and a sense of real | :10:24. | :10:31. | |
injustice and anger is enormously strong across a whole range of | :10:31. | :10:35. | |
unions, many of them have never taken action before. What do you | :10:35. | :10:40. | |
say to the mother on low-pay, no gold-plated pension for her, having | :10:40. | :10:44. | |
to take a day off work because her child can't go to school? It is | :10:45. | :10:49. | |
terrible, isn't it? I take no pleasure in seeing ordinary | :10:50. | :10:55. | |
people's lives disrupted by this industrial action. But I think | :10:55. | :11:01. | |
people across the Community realise that sometimes it is right to take | :11:01. | :11:09. | |
a stand. Sometimes you have to show how strongly you feel. But only two | :11:09. | :11:11. | |
to three weeks ago, you were talking about how the government | :11:11. | :11:16. | |
had moved, how this could be a basis for negotiations, yet this | :11:16. | :11:21. | |
strike is going ahead. We have tried in the intervening period to | :11:21. | :11:26. | |
resolve this and reach an agreement. That has not been possible. That is | :11:26. | :11:29. | |
being disingenuous when on 2nd November, you said the government | :11:29. | :11:33. | |
had moved and we are still going ahead with the strike. It might | :11:33. | :11:37. | |
look to some people that you have decided on this industrial action, | :11:37. | :11:42. | |
you have a mandate, come what may it you are going ahead. No, that is | :11:42. | :11:47. | |
not the basis on which something so important is decided, of course not. | :11:47. | :11:52. | |
All of the organisations involved, 30 unions, they made this decision | :11:52. | :11:56. | |
very reluctantly. They don't want to move to industrial action | :11:56. | :12:02. | |
lightly or casually. Yet I urge you to look at the range of | :12:02. | :12:06. | |
organisations, organisations representing our most senior civil | :12:06. | :12:09. | |
servants, head teachers, professional health workers who are | :12:09. | :12:12. | |
dedicated to the service they provide. Many of them have agonised | :12:12. | :12:16. | |
over this decision they have made. But they feel so strongly that this | :12:16. | :12:21. | |
is a real injustice the government is seeking to force through, they | :12:21. | :12:26. | |
have to make a stand. I'm proud of them for doing it. We are about to | :12:26. | :12:30. | |
speak to Francis Maude, who is listening. Is there anything you | :12:30. | :12:34. | |
could say that could get you to call off your action? At this stage | :12:34. | :12:39. | |
I think that is probably unlikely. Nothing he can say? What Francis | :12:39. | :12:48. | |
Maude has to do with his colleagues in government is give people | :12:48. | :12:53. | |
confidence that there is a secured, fair pension going to be maintained | :12:53. | :12:57. | |
for the future. At the moment, people simply do not have that | :12:57. | :13:03. | |
confidence. Pensions can be quite complicated, but this is a simple | :13:03. | :13:07. | |
point. Sorry to interrupt. Isn't that a rather extraordinary | :13:07. | :13:13. | |
position? There's nothing the chief negotiator could say on Sunday | :13:13. | :13:18. | |
lunchtime that would get you to call off your action on Wednesday? | :13:18. | :13:22. | |
Well, he could certainly have a try. If he said the government are not | :13:22. | :13:25. | |
going to force through contributions increases, that would | :13:26. | :13:29. | |
help. That they are going to reconsider the change in indexation | :13:29. | :13:34. | |
they have made to reduce the value of the pension so significantly, | :13:34. | :13:39. | |
that they are not just going to force through the increase in the | :13:39. | :13:42. | |
pension Beijing scheme so that people will have to work in some | :13:42. | :13:46. | |
cases quite a number of years longer before they secured their | :13:46. | :13:50. | |
pension. If they would state -- take a step back on some of these | :13:50. | :13:54. | |
issues. But having talked to Francis Maude and his colleagues a | :13:54. | :13:58. | |
lot over written months, I fear he is not prepared to say that, which | :13:58. | :14:04. | |
leaves us with a real difficulty. Of course, we will try to resolve | :14:04. | :14:09. | |
this through the negotiations after the industrial action on Wednesday, | :14:09. | :14:12. | |
but unless he comes up with something very surprising, the | :14:12. | :14:17. | |
action will be going ahead later this week. Grateful to you, thank | :14:17. | :14:19. | |
you. And listening to that interview, | :14:19. | :14:24. | |
Francis Maude, one of the ministers leading the negotiations. | :14:24. | :14:27. | |
Have you got anything to say to Brendan Barber that might avert the | :14:27. | :14:33. | |
strikes? Yes, I would say, call it off, now. He said we had been | :14:33. | :14:40. | |
talking incessantly, we have. There are conversations going on every | :14:40. | :14:45. | |
day, pretty much. There will be conversations on Tuesday, Thursday. | :14:45. | :14:50. | |
This is going on intensively. The unions have jumped the gun. Brendan | :14:50. | :14:54. | |
slightly let the cat out of the bag. He said there is nothing you can | :14:54. | :14:59. | |
say that will call it off. They set off on this path months ago, | :14:59. | :15:03. | |
calling ballots which jumped the gun, with very low turnouts in some | :15:03. | :15:08. | |
of these ballots. The biggest unions had turnouts of a quarter | :15:08. | :15:13. | |
and a third of their memberships. This was irresponsible, in | :15:13. | :15:17. | |
appropriate, wrong timing, wrong thing to be doing, will inflict | :15:17. | :15:27. | |
:15:27. | :15:29. | ||
damage on the economy at a time of When was the last time you spoke to | :15:29. | :15:33. | |
Brendan Barber? I understand there have been four different pension | :15:33. | :15:36. | |
negotiations going on. We had a meeting at the beginning of this | :15:36. | :15:41. | |
month, there have been conversations since then. But that | :15:41. | :15:45. | |
was the beginning of November, we have got a strike on Wednesday. | :15:45. | :15:50. | |
but there are four separate schemes. An agreement has to be reached not | :15:50. | :15:54. | |
in the central body, but in the sector schemes. And that is | :15:54. | :15:59. | |
happening all the time. There have been meetings twice a week going on. | :15:59. | :16:03. | |
So, this is very, very intensive. It is completed disingenuous to say | :16:03. | :16:07. | |
that there have not been conversations. They have been going | :16:07. | :16:11. | |
on all the time. Some people would suggest that your role in this has | :16:11. | :16:14. | |
actually been to stoke the flames of it, you have expressed your | :16:14. | :16:18. | |
irritation, you have talk about the unions going on strike for 15 | :16:18. | :16:21. | |
minutes, which I think a lot of them found insulting and | :16:21. | :16:27. | |
patronising. The unions involved in the Royal Mile have on a number of | :16:27. | :16:31. | |
occasions had a five-minute strike to achieve what was needed, which | :16:31. | :16:38. | |
was to keep the ballot mandate open. But this was done for public | :16:38. | :16:44. | |
consumption. We have suggested to them in private, I'm not going to | :16:44. | :16:48. | |
tell you all the discussions which go on in private, and there are a | :16:48. | :16:52. | |
lot, but we have suggested to them in private that there are ways of | :16:52. | :16:56. | |
doing what he said was important, which was to keep open the ballot | :16:56. | :16:59. | |
mandate, because of this eccentricity in the law, which says | :16:59. | :17:04. | |
that if you have got a mandate, you have to exercise it within 28 days, | :17:04. | :17:08. | |
or it goes. So we said, let's think of some ways around this. Some | :17:08. | :17:12. | |
people have called for example a two-hour strike in the middle of | :17:12. | :17:16. | |
the night to get around it. What I was suggesting is completely | :17:16. | :17:19. | |
consistent with what a lot of unions already do. What about this | :17:19. | :17:22. | |
other point which some people thought was provocative, which was | :17:22. | :17:28. | |
to say, if you do not accept this, we reserve the right to withdraw it | :17:28. | :17:31. | |
from the table. Presumably you either think it is a fair deal for | :17:31. | :17:36. | |
workers or not. If you're going to withdraw it, that is hardly fair. | :17:36. | :17:43. | |
We think it is a good outcome. This will still save the taxpayer a good | :17:43. | :17:47. | |
deal of money. But would it not be a sign of good faith if you said | :17:47. | :17:51. | |
you would stick to it come what may? So you think it would be fine | :17:51. | :17:54. | |
for the Government to commit a considerable amount of taxpayers' | :17:54. | :17:57. | |
money to continue to be spent on pension schemes which are still | :17:58. | :18:02. | |
going to be the best anyone will have access to, while actually | :18:02. | :18:07. | |
there is no agreement that the unions will not carry on striking | :18:07. | :18:11. | |
and taking industrial action, working to rule, inflicting more | :18:11. | :18:15. | |
damage on the interests of the public and on the economy? You | :18:15. | :18:20. | |
think it would be fine to do that? No, this is conditional on an | :18:20. | :18:24. | |
agreement. This is a very fair, generous offer. We have said that | :18:24. | :18:28. | |
no-one within 10 years of retiring need fear any change to their | :18:28. | :18:31. | |
retirement age, or any reduction in the value of their pension. We said | :18:31. | :18:36. | |
that no-one earning below �15,000 will actually pay any additional | :18:36. | :18:42. | |
contributions. This is a fair way of treating dedicated public | :18:42. | :18:48. | |
servants who are entitled to good pensions. I want to test this | :18:48. | :18:52. | |
fairness and generosity. David Cameron said that low and middle- | :18:52. | :18:55. | |
income earners would be getting a larger pension at retirement than | :18:55. | :19:00. | |
they do now... That's not right, is it? Many of | :19:00. | :19:03. | |
their will. We have said that many of them will be able to retire on a | :19:03. | :19:09. | |
pension at least as good as the one they can expect now. So, someone | :19:09. | :19:16. | |
aged 37, on �26,000, working until they are 67, they will not be worse | :19:16. | :19:20. | |
off? We are talking about the pension you retire on. Many people | :19:20. | :19:24. | |
will be expected to retire later, because we're living 10 years | :19:24. | :19:29. | |
longer than people were. A 60-year- old today can expect to live 10 | :19:29. | :19:34. | |
years longer than a 16-year-old in the 1970s. So it was not correct, | :19:34. | :19:39. | |
factually? Many of them will get a better pension, but what we have | :19:39. | :19:43. | |
always said is that people will be able to retire, particularly middle | :19:43. | :19:47. | |
and low-income earners, on a pension at least as good. The | :19:47. | :19:50. | |
change we made was where we increased the generosity of the | :19:50. | :19:55. | |
offer, which had the effect of meaning that many of them will | :19:55. | :19:58. | |
retire not on a pension just as good, but better than what they | :19:58. | :20:03. | |
currently can expect. Let's talk about the disruption on Wednesday. | :20:03. | :20:08. | |
How worried are you of what it could be like? I think it will be | :20:08. | :20:12. | |
destructive, schools will close, which will inconvenience not only | :20:12. | :20:16. | |
the children, but actually, the real damage will be to the millions | :20:16. | :20:20. | |
of people who depend on the schools being open to be able to go to work | :20:20. | :20:27. | |
themselves. They have got hard pressed household budgets, they're | :20:27. | :20:31. | |
going to work to pay the taxes which go to pay the pensions for | :20:31. | :20:34. | |
public sector workers, better pensions than nearly anyone in the | :20:34. | :20:38. | |
private sector has access to. will say these are only | :20:39. | :20:42. | |
contingencies, but the military are on standby, to do what? To make | :20:42. | :20:47. | |
sure that our borders are secured, and that the inconvenience to | :20:47. | :20:53. | |
travellers, people visiting Britain, is minimised. How many members of | :20:53. | :20:57. | |
the army have been trained up? would have to speak to the UK | :20:57. | :21:05. | |
Border Agency. They have responsibility for keeping the | :21:05. | :21:12. | |
border secure and for minimising the inconvenience to passengers. | :21:12. | :21:16. | |
They are taking that responsibility extremely seriously. People will be | :21:16. | :21:19. | |
arriving at Heathrow on Wednesday morning, and they will find | :21:20. | :21:25. | |
soldiers sitting there at passport control? It is possible, you will | :21:25. | :21:28. | |
have to speak to the Department about that. There will be some | :21:28. | :21:32. | |
disruption, I'm afraid it is inevitable. Passionate in | :21:32. | :21:35. | |
appropriate, irresponsible, the unions have jumped the gun. It is | :21:35. | :21:38. | |
quite wrong to be calling strikes at a time when discussions are | :21:38. | :21:42. | |
still going on, and where we are making progress. The unions have | :21:42. | :21:45. | |
been disingenuous this morning, saying there is no progress. Of | :21:45. | :21:48. | |
course they have to say that because it justifies this | :21:48. | :21:56. | |
irresponsible strike. Are you not worried? One newspaper today has a | :21:56. | :22:00. | |
poll saying the public are blaming the Government for this strike. | :22:00. | :22:05. | |
That was not what they were asked. Actually, the public are very much | :22:06. | :22:09. | |
supporting, as far as I can see, the changes the Government is | :22:09. | :22:13. | |
making. People look at their own pension arrangements, and they look | :22:13. | :22:16. | |
at the pension arrangements for public sector workers, which, at | :22:16. | :22:20. | |
the end of this, will be far better than what anyone else can expect. | :22:20. | :22:24. | |
And they say, is it right that my life should be disrupted, I will | :22:24. | :22:29. | |
not be able to go to work, because my children cannot go to school, | :22:29. | :22:33. | |
when actually I'm paying out in many cases as much in my taxes to | :22:33. | :22:37. | |
support their pensions as I am to support my own. It seems obvious | :22:37. | :22:44. | |
now that both sides, if they do not want this, that nothing will change | :22:44. | :22:51. | |
before November 30th. But what about after November 30th? Would | :22:51. | :22:55. | |
you then be able to offer the unions something more, to give them | :22:55. | :22:59. | |
some sort of face-saving exercise? What we have made absolutely clear | :22:59. | :23:03. | |
is that there is still a lot of flexibility, there are a lot of | :23:03. | :23:07. | |
moving parts. The reason why we have been talking so intensively is | :23:07. | :23:10. | |
that because in each of these schemes, which all have different | :23:10. | :23:15. | |
workforces, different profiles of salaries, different age ranges, to | :23:15. | :23:18. | |
work out within each one the best way to put the pieces together to | :23:18. | :23:23. | |
provide the best pension schemes, and the best outcome for most of | :23:23. | :23:26. | |
their members. That's what we're trying to do. There are not any | :23:26. | :23:31. | |
more parts we can put on the table. We have made a big, generous offer, | :23:31. | :23:34. | |
on November 2nd. Everybody acknowledges that it is a generous | :23:34. | :23:39. | |
offer. The unions have said it is a big move forward. We now need to | :23:39. | :23:43. | |
finalise it, to work out the way to use those moving parts to provide a | :23:43. | :23:53. | |
:23:53. | :23:54. | ||
fair and affordable outcome. Thank you very much for being with us. | :23:54. | :23:57. | |
The big walkout should be a no- brainer for the Labour Party. But | :23:57. | :24:01. | |
with the strike three days away, the Labour Party is sitting firmly | :24:01. | :24:05. | |
on the fence. In a moment I will be speaking to the Shadow Chief | :24:05. | :24:10. | |
Secretary to the Treasury, Rachel Reeves, about that. But first, some | :24:10. | :24:18. | |
maths homework. She's one of Labour's brightest young things. | :24:18. | :24:22. | |
Only elected last year, Rachel Reeves is already in the shadow | :24:22. | :24:26. | |
cabinet. Can this maths buff and former Bank of England economist | :24:26. | :24:31. | |
help save Labour's two classic conundrums - how to manage the | :24:31. | :24:34. | |
relationship with the trade unions and how to rebuild its battered | :24:34. | :24:38. | |
economic reputation. But what does the relationship between Labour and | :24:38. | :24:41. | |
the trade unions at up to at a time when strikes on the agenda? Well, | :24:41. | :24:46. | |
the party was formed by the unions. Ed Miliband was elected thanks to | :24:46. | :24:52. | |
their support. And figures out this week show that they donate 89% of | :24:52. | :24:55. | |
Labour's money. But it is a complicated equation when it comes | :24:56. | :24:59. | |
to solidarity on strikes, with the party offering sympathy for | :24:59. | :25:03. | |
strikers but refusing to back Wednesday's action. As for the | :25:03. | :25:09. | |
economy, despite the coalition's troubles, voters are sceptical that | :25:09. | :25:14. | |
the two Eds can really do their sums. 50% say they do not trust | :25:14. | :25:17. | |
Labour to make the right decision, and many blame them for the current | :25:17. | :25:26. | |
slowdown. But Rachel Reeves continues to argue for tackling the | :25:26. | :25:32. | |
deficit more slowly to avoid another recession. As we await an | :25:32. | :25:34. | |
autumn statement designed to deliver growth, she believes that | :25:34. | :25:38. | |
Labour are starting to win that argument. But it will be for the | :25:38. | :25:42. | |
public to decide if her calculations really do add up. | :25:42. | :25:50. | |
Rachel Reeves joins us now. Thank you very much for being with us. | :25:50. | :25:57. | |
Simple question, yes or no will do - do you support the strikes? | :25:57. | :26:00. | |
understand why public sector workers are going on strike, but I | :26:00. | :26:03. | |
think it could have been averted if the unions and the Government had | :26:03. | :26:07. | |
been sitting down talking to each other this weekend rather than | :26:07. | :26:13. | |
talking separately to you. But they have said they have been talking. | :26:13. | :26:17. | |
Francis Maude said he spoke to Brendan Barber at the beginning of | :26:17. | :26:21. | |
November. We have got strikes looming on Wednesday. I would have | :26:21. | :26:24. | |
thought that Francis Maude would have spent this weekend negotiating | :26:24. | :26:27. | |
with Brendan Barber and public sector workers to avert these | :26:28. | :26:33. | |
strikes. That's what people up and down the country want. That's what | :26:33. | :26:36. | |
businesses want, and yet they have not spoken since the beginning of | :26:36. | :26:41. | |
the month. Let me ask the question again - do you support the strikes? | :26:41. | :26:46. | |
I don't think that is the right question. It is the question I want | :26:46. | :26:50. | |
to ask. But the real question is, what has right done to avert the | :26:50. | :26:53. | |
strike? If Labour were in power, this weekend we would have been | :26:53. | :26:57. | |
sitting down with the unions to thrash out a deal, to negotiate an | :26:57. | :27:01. | |
outcome which is acceptable both to taxpayers and for people and the | :27:01. | :27:03. | |
public sector. The Government and Francis Maude has admitted | :27:03. | :27:06. | |
yesterday, have not done that. there not a role of political | :27:06. | :27:12. | |
leadership, whereby you should be able to shake, one way or another, | :27:13. | :27:16. | |
there was an important new offer put on the table, and the unions | :27:16. | :27:20. | |
have said it looks interesting, we need clarification on it - why are | :27:20. | :27:23. | |
you striking when you're still getting clarification and still | :27:23. | :27:27. | |
talking about the offer? Surely it would have been better to delay the | :27:27. | :27:31. | |
strike action until some time in the future, when you think actually, | :27:31. | :27:36. | |
this is a lousy deal, or it is OK. What you saw on the 2nd November | :27:36. | :27:40. | |
was some concessions from the Government on the a crawl rates and | :27:40. | :27:46. | |
on the transitional protection for some people coming up to retirement. | :27:46. | :27:49. | |
But the across-the-board increases in contribution, that is not on the | :27:49. | :27:54. | |
table, it is being imposed. If you're a low-paid worker, part-time, | :27:54. | :27:57. | |
particularly a woman working in the public sector, a community nurse, a | :27:57. | :28:02. | |
dinner lady, they will be facing increasing contributions of between | :28:02. | :28:06. | |
�5 and �10 a week. They're already struggling to make ends meet, with | :28:06. | :28:09. | |
a two-year pay freeze. They will find it very difficult to absorb | :28:09. | :28:12. | |
this increase, but it is not even on the table. That is one thing we | :28:13. | :28:17. | |
think the Government should have been negotiating on. Don't Labour | :28:17. | :28:20. | |
get themselves into a difficult position, where the unions think, | :28:20. | :28:23. | |
you're a bit mealy mouthed in supporting us, and the public think, | :28:23. | :28:28. | |
you are not condemning the strikes? I have sympathy for the people who | :28:28. | :28:32. | |
rely on public services. The kids are supposed to be getting an | :28:32. | :28:35. | |
education on Wednesday. Francis Maude said it was not a big deal, | :28:35. | :28:39. | |
but I think it is, for many kids. But you could show political | :28:39. | :28:44. | |
leadership and say, they should not go on strike. I do understand why | :28:44. | :28:49. | |
people, teachers, people in the Border Agency, I understand why | :28:49. | :28:54. | |
they're so frustrated, because they feel the Government are being | :28:54. | :29:01. | |
disingenuous. Also, they are being asked to contribute 3% extra from | :29:01. | :29:04. | |
their pay packet, effectively a tax on public sector workers which will | :29:04. | :29:08. | |
not even be going into their pension pots. If Labour were in | :29:08. | :29:11. | |
power, the difference would be that we would be sitting down | :29:12. | :29:15. | |
negotiating, rather than upping the rhetoric and threatening to | :29:15. | :29:20. | |
withdraw the deal, as Francis Maude did again today on this programme. | :29:20. | :29:27. | |
Just one more question on Labour's relationship with the unions - we | :29:27. | :29:30. | |
talk about the fact that nine tenths of your funding comes from | :29:30. | :29:35. | |
the unions, should it not be an ambition to reduce that? Since the | :29:35. | :29:38. | |
general election last year, our membership has gone up by more than | :29:38. | :29:43. | |
50%, and the biggest supporters of the party are our members, who pay | :29:43. | :29:49. | |
through their subscriptions and off road through donations. -- and also | :29:49. | :29:55. | |
through donations. What we were talking about was the levy that | :29:55. | :29:58. | |
members of the trade unions pay. That is not quite an answer to the | :29:58. | :30:02. | |
question. That is the decision of people to pay the political levy | :30:02. | :30:06. | |
for the trade unions, and that many then comes to the Labour Party, and | :30:06. | :30:09. | |
I'm proud of that relationship. The Labour Party was formed by the | :30:09. | :30:14. | |
trade unions, it is part of our tradition. Just on the economy, | :30:14. | :30:17. | |
let's talk about the wider UK economy, with the Autumn Statement | :30:17. | :30:22. | |
coming up on Tuesday - why do you think it is that if the Government | :30:22. | :30:32. | |
:30:32. | :30:35. | ||
is making such a mess of this, the We should have done more with | :30:35. | :30:38. | |
banking regulation. But we are now seeing the impact of this | :30:38. | :30:45. | |
Government's policies. Increasing taxes, VAT, cutting public spending | :30:45. | :30:52. | |
at such a rate is now risking a double-dip recession in the UK. | :30:52. | :30:56. | |
talk about the failure of banking regulation. Don't you also need to | :30:56. | :31:01. | |
say we spent too much? Until 2008, the Conservatives were backing our | :31:01. | :31:06. | |
spending. How I'm not asking about what they did, I'm asking you for | :31:06. | :31:09. | |
your judgment on whether Labour spent too much. I don't believe we | :31:09. | :31:17. | |
did. Between 1997 and 2007 we reduce debt as a share if GDP, but | :31:17. | :31:21. | |
during the financial crisis, we made a decision to bring forward | :31:21. | :31:25. | |
spending, to cut taxes, to try to avoid a global recession becoming a | :31:25. | :31:29. | |
global depression. They were the right choices because it stopped | :31:29. | :31:35. | |
unemployment going up to 2.5 and 3 million to as we've seen in the | :31:35. | :31:39. | |
sessions and the past. Your five point plan for jobs involves more | :31:39. | :31:44. | |
borrowing. You haven't said how much more borrowing, have you? | :31:44. | :31:52. | |
point is... So the answer is no? VAT, that is �12 billion. For what | :31:52. | :31:56. | |
makes you think of the markets are going to accept more borrowing when | :31:56. | :32:01. | |
they haven't done in Spain, Italy, Greece? That is a massive gamble. | :32:01. | :32:06. | |
The reality is that the government on a borrowing at least �46 billion | :32:06. | :32:10. | |
more than they had previously planned because of the cost of the | :32:10. | :32:13. | |
failure of their economic policies, they have more people out of work | :32:13. | :32:17. | |
so we are paying more out in benefits and getting less in taxes. | :32:17. | :32:22. | |
With these targeted measures to get jobs and growth back on track, that | :32:22. | :32:26. | |
will get the economy moving and will help us reduce the debt in a | :32:26. | :32:29. | |
sustainable way. At the moment we are borrowing more because of | :32:29. | :32:34. | |
economic failure. Can I go back to the strikes? Francis Maude was | :32:34. | :32:40. | |
talking about eccentricities in the strike ballot. You have to take the | :32:40. | :32:46. | |
industrial action within 28 days of the ballot. Do you agree with that? | :32:46. | :32:49. | |
As Francis Maude said, the unions could do something different league | :32:49. | :32:55. | |
to keep that mandate available. But they have decided to take strike | :32:55. | :32:58. | |
action on Wednesday because of the strength of feeling about this | :32:58. | :33:04. | |
issue. You think the 15th minute idea was a constructive proposal? | :33:04. | :33:08. | |
don't think that... Are you suggested that was the right way | :33:08. | :33:12. | |
forward? What I was saying is you could keep the mandate by just | :33:12. | :33:16. | |
taking small action. On this occasion the unions feel so | :33:16. | :33:21. | |
strongly about this issue, that is not on the table. That might be a | :33:21. | :33:26. | |
better idea. Negotiations are quite close to reaching an agreement. | :33:26. | :33:30. | |
doesn't sound like they are close to reaching agreement. The fact | :33:30. | :33:33. | |
that Brendan Barber and Francis Maude have not spoken since the | :33:33. | :33:37. | |
beginning of the month suggests they are a long way off a deal. | :33:37. | :33:41. | |
That is unfortunate because people who rely on public services will | :33:41. | :33:44. | |
see massive disruption that could have been avoided if the government | :33:44. | :33:48. | |
were sitting down with the people in the public sector this week | :33:48. | :33:51. | |
rather than coming on the television and saying they might | :33:51. | :33:59. | |
withdraw their offer. You do seem to suggest, and I am interested in | :33:59. | :34:04. | |
this, that some sort of token strike action, whether in the | :34:04. | :34:09. | |
middle of the night, would have been a way forward that would have | :34:09. | :34:14. | |
allowed the talks to continue and still keep the mandate. Jackie is | :34:14. | :34:17. | |
saying is it appropriate to say you have to take action within 28 days | :34:17. | :34:21. | |
to keep that mandate? There are ways to keep that mandate going | :34:21. | :34:25. | |
that fall short of full strike action, but the unions have decided | :34:25. | :34:28. | |
and balloted on strike action and they are going ahead with that | :34:28. | :34:35. | |
because they don't think the government have listened. Thank you. | :34:35. | :34:38. | |
We will have more on what to expect from the Chancellor's statement | :34:38. | :34:48. | |
:34:48. | :34:51. | ||
later. First, The Politics Show Hello and welcome to The Politics | :34:51. | :34:53. | |
Show in London. Coming up later... | :34:53. | :34:57. | |
It is the biggest change to parliamentary boundaries for | :34:57. | :35:02. | |
decades, we consider one MP's fight to save his constituency. Self- | :35:02. | :35:06. | |
interest or commonsense? But first, and next year's Olympics | :35:06. | :35:08. | |
there are big commercial opportunities both legal and | :35:08. | :35:13. | |
illegal. Fielders profession in the world might anticipate an upturn in | :35:13. | :35:17. | |
business as millions visit the capital for the Games. But as | :35:17. | :35:20. | |
police rampart their efforts to shut Brussels and London, could | :35:20. | :35:24. | |
prostitutes be driven onto the streets and therefore Integrator | :35:24. | :35:28. | |
danger? -- brothels. According to the English collective | :35:28. | :35:33. | |
of prostitutes, there's a degree of prosecution going on towards sex | :35:33. | :35:43. | |
:35:43. | :35:57. | ||
workers as police target human Now Conservative assembly mender | :35:57. | :36:06. | |
Andrew Goff has claimed... -- He added that brothels were | :36:06. | :36:10. | |
targeted under the guise of the police going after trafficked women | :36:10. | :36:14. | |
and asked if this was the best way to attack trafficking. He also | :36:14. | :36:18. | |
called for the police to turn a blind eye to prostitutes working in | :36:18. | :36:22. | |
Brussels, for them to be decriminalised and licensed, adding | :36:22. | :36:24. | |
it would do some power pence and make it easier to allow health | :36:24. | :36:34. | |
:36:34. | :36:35. | ||
His remarks have been questioned in some quarters, with critics | :36:36. | :36:39. | |
claiming it will give a green light to prostitution, enabling a red | :36:39. | :36:44. | |
light districts to spring up in every area of town. | :36:44. | :36:49. | |
Andrew off is here with me now along with Labour assembly member | :36:49. | :36:53. | |
and candidate for deputy Mayor, Val Shawcross. What do you say to the | :36:53. | :36:58. | |
reaction to what you say? Police are going into hard against | :36:58. | :37:03. | |
brothels and prostitution? police quote is they want to make | :37:03. | :37:07. | |
London a hostile environment for pimps, but some of their actions | :37:07. | :37:11. | |
make it a hostile environment for women working in the sex industry. | :37:11. | :37:15. | |
I want to see a regime whereby women feel able to report attacks | :37:15. | :37:19. | |
against them, to report whether or not they have been trafficked orca | :37:19. | :37:23. | |
worse, and I think currently the conduct of the police is not | :37:23. | :37:27. | |
helping that, but they have a law which mitigates against the safety | :37:27. | :37:32. | |
of women. What is your evidence that it is not working? I think we | :37:32. | :37:38. | |
have seen an increase in raids, for example, in the five Olympic | :37:38. | :37:42. | |
boroughs. 80 raids in the past year whereas in all the remaining | :37:42. | :37:48. | |
boroughs of London, we have only had 29. They are concentrating on a | :37:48. | :37:54. | |
particular area. The messages I am getting from people in that | :37:54. | :37:58. | |
industry, from prostitutes, is they are feeling it is a more unsafe | :37:58. | :38:02. | |
environment. They are cautious that if they were to report an attack, | :38:02. | :38:07. | |
for example, to the police, it might be then criminalise rather | :38:07. | :38:13. | |
than the attacker. What do you say about this? I think the police are | :38:13. | :38:17. | |
absolutely right to carry on trying to stamp down on this. The concept | :38:17. | :38:21. | |
that somehow or other a woman in a brothel is making a career choice | :38:21. | :38:28. | |
is absolutely ridiculous. Enormous numbers of women are Coe worst, | :38:28. | :38:33. | |
traffic, drug abuse is implicated in this, extreme violence. There's | :38:33. | :38:37. | |
absolutely no sensible research that shows women makes this as a | :38:37. | :38:43. | |
career choice. Of course they don't. Poverty is one of the biggest | :38:43. | :38:47. | |
drivers of women into this industry and it is very important that we | :38:47. | :38:55. | |
don't give any signals that this is a legal industry. It is very | :38:55. | :38:58. | |
implicated with a gang criminals. What about if the police were going | :38:58. | :39:06. | |
in harder because of the Olympics? 90% of the women in prostitution in | :39:06. | :39:10. | |
London are thought to be migrants and the police themselves think a | :39:10. | :39:14. | |
very, very large number have actually been trafficked. It is | :39:14. | :39:17. | |
really important that they keep the pressure up because at the moment | :39:17. | :39:22. | |
the danger is that there could be an increase in violence against | :39:22. | :39:24. | |
women and the growth in broth and prostitution. A do you recognise | :39:24. | :39:30. | |
that? I don't recognise that picture. Val is not looking at any | :39:30. | :39:35. | |
research into this area. For research suggests there's not a | :39:35. | :39:37. | |
massive number of women being trafficked, though there are | :39:37. | :39:42. | |
trafficked women. My interest in those women being trafficked, | :39:42. | :39:47. | |
research suggests the figure of colours of Lee trafficked women | :39:47. | :39:51. | |
into Prof is well below 5% and that is independent research. The police | :39:51. | :39:59. | |
themselves are saying that they have seen no rise in the amount of | :39:59. | :40:04. | |
trafficking in the run-up to the Olympics. This is being based... | :40:04. | :40:07. | |
That research has been debunked thoroughly by the police themselves. | :40:07. | :40:13. | |
It hasn't. It has been debunked. That study went into about 100 | :40:13. | :40:18. | |
brothels, spoke to women under circumstances where they were | :40:18. | :40:22. | |
probably under coercion and threats of violence. It was a very small | :40:23. | :40:28. | |
sample and has been comprehensively debunked. I really do think... | :40:28. | :40:32. | |
last word with each. You should talk to some of the women in this | :40:32. | :40:35. | |
industry. Your caricaturing every single one as being coerced into | :40:35. | :40:39. | |
doing that. Some people have made choices and you don't liberate | :40:39. | :40:44. | |
women by taking their choice away. Women do not make a choice to be | :40:44. | :40:48. | |
victims of sexual violence, to be abused by gangs in London. You can | :40:48. | :40:54. | |
shut your eyes to it. You should look a little bit more seriously at | :40:54. | :40:58. | |
the implications of this issue. that's all we have time for. Thank | :40:58. | :41:02. | |
you. The political map of London looks | :41:02. | :41:05. | |
set to change under new proposals to reduce the number of MPs. The | :41:05. | :41:09. | |
capital will lose five of its 73 seats and House of Commons. Nearly | :41:09. | :41:14. | |
every constituency in London is being redrawn to some extent. Some | :41:14. | :41:20. | |
MPs are not happy. This is Andy Love, MP for Edmonton. | :41:20. | :41:25. | |
Although maybe not for much longer. Under proposed changes, his | :41:25. | :41:30. | |
constituency will cease to exist and merge with Chingford, which he | :41:30. | :41:35. | |
says is bad news for residents. represent some of the most deprived | :41:35. | :41:41. | |
people who need public services, who need somebody to champion their | :41:41. | :41:45. | |
rights in the community. A member of parliament, that is their role. | :41:45. | :41:49. | |
The new seat of Chingford and Edmonton is divided by the Lea | :41:49. | :41:54. | |
Valley. Industrial land, but most importantly a reservoir, leaving | :41:54. | :41:58. | |
only two road crossings more than two miles apart. We followed Andy | :41:58. | :42:03. | |
to the local shopping centre as he tried to canvass support. I am | :42:03. | :42:08. | |
running a campaign to save Edmonton. What we are doing is trying to stop | :42:08. | :42:12. | |
them linking Edmonton with Chingford. One has -- one of his | :42:12. | :42:15. | |
big contentions is the amount of time it will take people to get | :42:15. | :42:19. | |
from Edmonton to Chingford and on these leaflets it says Chingford, | :42:19. | :42:22. | |
one hour and 30 minutes by foot. Not that many people would fancy | :42:22. | :42:26. | |
that walk. We're going to see how long it would take by public | :42:26. | :42:31. | |
transport. Destination Chingford, Conservative Association. The | :42:31. | :42:36. | |
journey might be one that residents wanting to see their MP have to get | :42:36. | :42:40. | |
used to. The proposed new seat, if it had existed at the last election, | :42:40. | :42:48. | |
would have been won by Iain Duncan Smith, the Conservatives. The | :42:48. | :42:51. | |
reaction you get from some members of the public is that politicians | :42:51. | :42:55. | |
are interested in this because they are trying to save their own skins. | :42:55. | :42:59. | |
Inevitably there will be the case and I would be the last to say | :42:59. | :43:01. | |
politicians don't have a critical interest in the boundaries under | :43:01. | :43:07. | |
which they operate. Of course. But we have tried to separate the | :43:07. | :43:10. | |
politics from the issues that should concern everybody. It is | :43:10. | :43:15. | |
about community, it is about links, it is about how the difficulties of | :43:15. | :43:19. | |
accessing your representative. Chingford & Woodford Green | :43:19. | :43:29. | |
:43:29. | :43:31. | ||
Fantastic. I suggested it was an hour to an hour and a half, it has | :43:31. | :43:36. | |
turned out to be spot on the middle. Chingford is a very different place | :43:36. | :43:39. | |
compared to the at the side of the tracks. It is notably well fear. | :43:39. | :43:44. | |
But while economics and a huge body of water may separate the two parts | :43:44. | :43:47. | |
of the proposed new constituency, and he thinks he might have found a | :43:47. | :43:54. | |
quicker way to bridge that divide. -- Andy. You're wearing a | :43:54. | :43:58. | |
lifejacket, you have taken us to the King George Sailing Club on the | :43:58. | :44:02. | |
reservoir. Why is that? That is Edmonton straight across the | :44:02. | :44:06. | |
reservoir on the other side. That is the most direct route and that | :44:06. | :44:09. | |
is the one I'm going to take to show you how ludicrous these new | :44:09. | :44:19. | |
:44:19. | :44:27. | ||
boundaries are. We are going by Only the eye Ps! -- VoIPs. | :44:27. | :44:34. | |
Andy Love is Here. How long did it take you to get across the lake? | :44:34. | :44:39. | |
4 minutes. Tony Travers is also hear from the LSE. How long does it | :44:39. | :44:47. | |
take to go by car from one side of your constituency to the other? | :44:47. | :44:49. | |
my constituency... The new one. takes somewhere between 15 and 20 | :44:49. | :44:54. | |
minutes. That doesn't make it sound so bad. You have to remember that | :44:54. | :44:58. | |
the people who want to act as a Member of Parliament, they are | :44:58. | :45:02. | |
often the very people who don't have access to a car and it is to | :45:02. | :45:07. | |
my unconcerned about. Don't you feel it is geographically not right | :45:07. | :45:13. | |
I think I am saying more than that. They have ignored geography all | :45:13. | :45:17. | |
over the country and I would not stand out if it was the only thing | :45:17. | :45:22. | |
of matter to me. What matters is this enormous geographical barrier | :45:22. | :45:27. | |
that exists between the two parts of the constituency. There are no | :45:27. | :45:31. | |
links between Chingford and Edmonton. We will never build them | :45:31. | :45:35. | |
because of the barrier. And we are losing the links we currently have | :45:35. | :45:45. | |
:45:45. | :45:51. | ||
Almost none of these cases are typical, without being unhelpful. | :45:51. | :45:54. | |
Some of the constituencies will remain exactly the same. Others | :45:54. | :45:58. | |
will be dismembered, but there are some clear examples. This is one of | :45:58. | :46:02. | |
them, where what feels like a single place ends up being on | :46:02. | :46:08. | |
either side of a river or road, and is undoubtedly separated. But I | :46:08. | :46:13. | |
thought the promise was that what was meant to be happening would be | :46:13. | :46:16. | |
to iron out those problems to make things more integrated. | :46:16. | :46:20. | |
difficulty is that when you start to change boundaries, and | :46:20. | :46:23. | |
particularly when you reduce the number of constituencies, which is | :46:23. | :46:27. | |
what lies behind all of this, it leaves the people drawing the | :46:27. | :46:31. | |
boundaries with a terrifically difficult job. If you move the | :46:32. | :46:35. | |
boundaries for one, in order to get just the right number of voters, | :46:35. | :46:40. | |
you have knock-on effects in the next one. And you end up with | :46:40. | :46:44. | |
constituencies which in some cases do not fully makes sense. We cannot | :46:44. | :46:49. | |
get an absolute, scientific indication of this, but we can get | :46:49. | :46:52. | |
some indications from previous election results, which indicate | :46:52. | :46:56. | |
that it would make it less likely that you would hold the seat next | :46:56. | :47:01. | |
time - is that one factor? course it is a factor for me, | :47:01. | :47:10. | |
personally. We have tried to separate out the issues. Everybody | :47:10. | :47:13. | |
can tell when an argument is essentially political. We have | :47:13. | :47:18. | |
tried to stick to the criteria which the Boundary Commission has | :47:18. | :47:22. | |
suggested - it is about geographic links, community links, it is about | :47:23. | :47:27. | |
all of the other issues which make up a constituency. If | :47:27. | :47:31. | |
constituencies are going to be all in this together... You're making | :47:31. | :47:34. | |
this case to the Boundary Commission, any indication from | :47:34. | :47:40. | |
then yet that they might admit they have got this one slightly wrong, | :47:40. | :47:44. | |
with this big body of water it adds that we invited them to come up and | :47:44. | :47:47. | |
see for themselves, but they resisted the temptation. I hope | :47:47. | :47:51. | |
they will review this seriously. We have got significant concerns | :47:51. | :47:55. | |
expressed by my constituents, it just does not make any sense. Let | :47:55. | :48:01. | |
me just say, as a comparison, they had to cross the River Thames, they | :48:01. | :48:07. | |
did so at the narrowest point in London. They have crossed the River | :48:07. | :48:12. | |
Lea at the widest point. If you look at the overall result, | :48:12. | :48:17. | |
comparing it with last time, it looks as if Labour would lose | :48:17. | :48:22. | |
probably two or three seats, and so, they would be slightly worse off, | :48:22. | :48:25. | |
the Conservatives might lose one, too. But overall, the Conservatives | :48:25. | :48:31. | |
would do slightly better. And what about some key senior figures? | :48:31. | :48:38. | |
south London, there's a number of MPs, including Tessa Jowell, Kate | :48:38. | :48:42. | |
Hoey, Sidique Khan, all finding their constituencies are being cut | :48:42. | :48:47. | |
up. But of course there will be some new constituencies which | :48:47. | :48:51. | |
arguably will make more sense as communities after the reform, even | :48:51. | :48:55. | |
though it means dismembering a constituency, from the point of | :48:55. | :48:59. | |
view of the MP. They will all end up fighting with each other, which | :48:59. | :49:02. | |
they like less, of course, even than fighting with opponents in the | :49:02. | :49:08. | |
other party. If you run a venue in London where you have live music | :49:08. | :49:11. | |
and it is under a certain size, soon you may not need an | :49:11. | :49:14. | |
entertainment licence. The Government is considering getting | :49:14. | :49:18. | |
rid of some regulations which they believe to be burdensome. But some | :49:18. | :49:21. | |
of London's councils are worried about what this could unleash. When | :49:21. | :49:26. | |
it comes to getting permission to put on live music events, there are | :49:26. | :49:34. | |
lots of inconsistencies within the system. You do not need a licence | :49:34. | :49:37. | |
to have a carol concert in a church, but you do if it is in a church | :49:37. | :49:41. | |
hall. You would not need a licence for a free school concert, but you | :49:41. | :49:48. | |
would if there was charity fund- raising going on. Punch & Judy | :49:48. | :49:51. | |
shows, pianists in restaurants and other things all need licences to | :49:51. | :49:57. | |
go ahead. It is these anomalies and disadvantages for small music | :49:57. | :50:00. | |
events which the Government hopes to remove by changing the licensing | :50:00. | :50:04. | |
system. They are proposing that all venues with an audience of less | :50:04. | :50:08. | |
than 500 people will no longer have to buy licences to host musical | :50:08. | :50:14. | |
events. -- 5,000 people. It is a relief for many small venues which | :50:14. | :50:18. | |
currently struggle to pay. Kensington & Chelsea Council have | :50:18. | :50:21. | |
almost 1,000 venues which would be free to host events under the new | :50:21. | :50:25. | |
regulations. The council are worried that this could lead to | :50:25. | :50:31. | |
music being played around the clock, leading to an increase in noise and | :50:31. | :50:36. | |
anti-social behaviour. But laws on noise nuisance, alcohol licensing | :50:36. | :50:39. | |
and disorder will remain the same, so are the council just standing in | :50:39. | :50:42. | |
the way of what many would say is his implication of an overly | :50:42. | :50:52. | |
:50:52. | :51:04. | ||
complicated system? -- is an -- is a simplification. Joining me now, a | :51:04. | :51:07. | |
representative of Kensington & Chelsea council. We are very | :51:07. | :51:09. | |
supportive of the creative industries, we want people to have | :51:09. | :51:12. | |
a good time, but actually, if you remove all the regulation which is | :51:12. | :51:17. | |
currently in place, as this threatens to do, you run the risk | :51:17. | :51:19. | |
that residents will be immensely that residents will be immensely | :51:19. | :51:24. | |
inconvenienced. The only section they will have is to make a | :51:24. | :51:29. | |
complaint or to see to have a premises closed down after the | :51:29. | :51:33. | |
event. We want some control, to give residents some degree of | :51:33. | :51:38. | |
security. John Smith, making this easier for the venues, and for the | :51:38. | :51:43. | |
musicians, is all very well, but for the people living nearby? | :51:43. | :51:46. | |
think they have got legislation in place now which can deal with that. | :51:46. | :51:50. | |
You have got environmental legislation, anti-social behaviour | :51:50. | :51:53. | |
legislation, health and safety legislation, which we think deal | :51:54. | :52:00. | |
with this. What happens with the Licensing Act is that they have to | :52:00. | :52:03. | |
sign up to a complicated set of restrictions before they even play | :52:03. | :52:08. | |
music. When we did some research, just after the Licensing Act was | :52:08. | :52:11. | |
passed, it was clear that most complaints were about domestic | :52:11. | :52:17. | |
music, from parties and things like that, and recorded music, which is | :52:17. | :52:21. | |
exempt from the Licensing Act. So it only punishes live music. | :52:21. | :52:26. | |
the DJs can be loud, but not live music. Is this too prescriptive, | :52:26. | :52:31. | |
just putting burdens in the way? I don't think so. You saw from the | :52:31. | :52:37. | |
film, we have nearly 1,000 licensed premises in our Burgh. What is | :52:37. | :52:41. | |
appropriate in one place, where it might make sense to relax the rules, | :52:42. | :52:47. | |
is not appropriate in a built up, inner city area, where one person's | :52:47. | :52:50. | |
noise and good fun really makes another person's life a misery. We | :52:50. | :52:57. | |
have got to take account of that. This fails to do that, there is no | :52:57. | :53:02. | |
balance. We have lobbied for a long while for an exemption for the | :53:02. | :53:06. | |
smaller venues. We did not like the way that music was licensed under | :53:06. | :53:09. | |
the Licensing Act. And we know that this particularly hit the smaller | :53:09. | :53:14. | |
venues, because they are using recorded music, rather than live | :53:14. | :53:19. | |
music. So the opportunity is not there to grow young acts. I was | :53:19. | :53:22. | |
doing some research into the borough, and there is a small venue | :53:22. | :53:28. | |
on the King's Road called the 3p, where Mumford & Sons and Laura | :53:28. | :53:34. | |
Marling started. That is the kind of venue we want to encourage. | :53:34. | :53:39. | |
the bureaucrats of Kensington and Chelsea could have prevented major | :53:39. | :53:44. | |
bands! We have a great history of being the home of lots of creative | :53:44. | :53:49. | |
bands. We do not want to stop that, but there is a right place and are | :53:49. | :53:53. | |
well placed to make lots of noise. We have plenty of licensed premises, | :53:53. | :53:57. | |
we have music licences, it has not stamped out creativity. But it | :53:57. | :54:02. | |
gives residents some support. think they have already got powers | :54:02. | :54:07. | |
which they could use? We think they exist already, yes. If there is an | :54:07. | :54:12. | |
issue, people can be taken to task. Why can't you just do that, it | :54:12. | :54:16. | |
would save you time and money, wouldn't it? No, because that puts | :54:17. | :54:21. | |
the onus on to the nearby residents, on to the neighbours, on to the | :54:21. | :54:25. | |
miscreant. What's wrong with saying, this is a venue where we want some | :54:25. | :54:30. | |
live music, we can manage it properly, we can control the crowds. | :54:30. | :54:35. | |
The idea that up to 5,000 people can go to a venue, and there is no | :54:35. | :54:39. | |
control whatsoever, is ludicrous in central London. It may work in the | :54:39. | :54:46. | |
middle of pull. That's all the time we have on that for now. Back to | :54:46. | :54:54. | |
you, Jon. As we have been discussing, the Chancellor's Autumn | :54:54. | :55:02. | |
Statement has a lot of hype to live up to. Treasury sorties -- treasury | :55:02. | :55:07. | |
sources quoted today say it will be a game-changer. That is a big claim. | :55:07. | :55:13. | |
So, what can we expect from the Autumn Statement? This is what | :55:13. | :55:17. | |
rebuilding the economy looks like. Today, we're using concrete. I'm | :55:17. | :55:21. | |
not joking, because getting billions into infrastructure | :55:21. | :55:25. | |
projects like roads and railways is one of the two main lines of attack | :55:25. | :55:29. | |
which Mr Osborne will be using on Tuesday in his battle to stimulate | :55:29. | :55:35. | |
economic growth. Building, for example, a new railway means jobs | :55:35. | :55:39. | |
in the construction industry, in transport and associated businesses | :55:39. | :55:45. | |
and a revenue stream when passengers start queuing up. If I'm | :55:45. | :55:49. | |
standing here in seven years' time, I will be running a serious risk of | :55:49. | :55:55. | |
getting mowed down by a train coming out of this tunnel behind me. | :55:55. | :55:59. | |
This is the Canary Wharf Station for CrossRail, and the entire | :55:59. | :56:05. | |
project is costing �14.8 billion. I have been told that the Government | :56:05. | :56:08. | |
will be announcing another big infrastructure project this coming | :56:08. | :56:14. | |
Tuesday. But where is the money going to come from? The Government | :56:14. | :56:18. | |
can spend money on capital infrastructure projects without | :56:18. | :56:21. | |
interfering with their own mandate to reduce the deficit. But they | :56:21. | :56:27. | |
would rather involve the private sector, too. There's a lot of | :56:27. | :56:30. | |
companies and Investment funds with a lot of cash on their balance | :56:30. | :56:33. | |
sheets, and on looking back, getting the planning consent ready, | :56:33. | :56:38. | |
and the Government putting in the necessary support, is important not | :56:38. | :56:41. | |
just for getting jobs now, but also in preparing the economy for the | :56:41. | :56:48. | |
future. The second weapon in the Government's armoury is going to be | :56:48. | :56:51. | |
something called credit easing. The banks are hoarding money, rather | :56:51. | :56:55. | |
than lending it, which is bad news for businesses, particularly small | :56:55. | :57:00. | |
ones. We now know the Treasury will underwrite �20 billion worth of | :57:00. | :57:04. | |
loans to small businesses, targeting companies that turnover | :57:04. | :57:09. | |
less than �50 million. The Government guarantees the funds, so | :57:10. | :57:12. | |
that taxpayers' money would not be at risk if one of the businesses | :57:12. | :57:16. | |
went under. But some people in this attack think this is a wrong and | :57:17. | :57:25. | |
risky strategy. -- some people in the City. It is quite a risky thing, | :57:25. | :57:30. | |
because we would be seeing the taxpayer once again taking on risk. | :57:31. | :57:35. | |
People think that loans are too risky, and yet the Government is | :57:35. | :57:38. | |
going to start underpinning this. And there is a trend here. We saw | :57:38. | :57:43. | |
it also on the policy of guaranteeing 95% mortgages. The | :57:43. | :57:46. | |
Government is turning into a bank, turning into a vehicle to guarantee | :57:46. | :57:50. | |
debt, for private individuals or firms, and I think that is | :57:50. | :57:55. | |
dangerous. It also shows that the coalition has learnt nothing from | :57:55. | :58:02. | |
the disaster of some time lending. -- of subprime lending. When you | :58:02. | :58:05. | |
start to think you know better than lenders, you end up in trouble. | :58:06. | :58:09. | |
That is the big stuff, infrastructure and credit. But this | :58:10. | :58:13. | |
autumn statement is also going to mean difficult decisions about us, | :58:13. | :58:16. | |
and how we cope with falling standards of living. We know for | :58:16. | :58:19. | |
example but the Chancellor is going to cap increases in rail fares for | :58:19. | :58:23. | |
commuters, but what will happen about increasing benefits, for | :58:23. | :58:30. | |
instance? The Government's policies to upgrade benefits against the | :58:30. | :58:38. | |
consumer price index have been using the rate from the previous | :58:38. | :58:42. | |
September. This time the Government will have to spend more next year | :58:42. | :58:47. | |
than they had been expecting on benefit recipients, about which | :58:47. | :58:50. | |
more and more than they had been expecting in March. That's why | :58:50. | :58:54. | |
people are talking about the Treasury backing away from such a | :58:54. | :58:56. | |
large and direct increase in benefits. And what is going to | :58:56. | :59:02. | |
happen about fuel bills? Fuel duty is helping to reduce the deficit, | :59:02. | :59:06. | |
but there is talk of a freeze. Government has plans to increase | :59:06. | :59:11. | |
fuel duty next January by 3p, which will raise the Government about | :59:11. | :59:15. | |
�1.3 billion each year. That is part of what is helping to | :59:15. | :59:17. | |
contribute to closing the gap between government spending and | :59:17. | :59:22. | |
revenue. Juggling conflicting needs, like the need to save money and the | :59:22. | :59:26. | |
needs of car drivers, for example, is going to require some careful | :59:26. | :59:30. | |
manoeuvres this Tuesday. But most of all, George Osborne wants | :59:31. | :59:34. | |
British business to say, yes, this is a radical strategy to encourage | :59:34. | :59:38. | |
growth. This time, a bit of tinkering is not going to do the | :59:38. | :59:45. | |
trick. Just to say, there will be full coverage of the Chancellor's | :59:45. | :59:50. | |
statement in a special programme on BBC Two on Tuesday at noon. That is | :59:50. | :59:54. |