10/07/2011 The Politics Show North West

And in the North West: A first class revolution. We look

at life after the post office closure programme.

And what is it about politicians and straight answers? We'll be

Apology for the loss of subtitles for 2368 seconds

Hello and welcome to the Politics Show in the North West. This is

Levens Hall in Cumbria. It's a beautiful house with stunning

topiary gardens. Some parts of the house date back to medieval times.

There's a village of the same name just down the road and we're not

far from Kendal. Just the sort of place to discuss a first class

issue. Coming up, we look at life after the Post Office closure

programme. It was the heart of the village. When it went, it just

crucified the village. And what is it about politicians

and straight answers? Why do they find it so difficult? I did not

overrule him. Did you threatened to overrule him? I took advice on what

It's two years since the Post Office rolled out the last part of

its controversial post office closure programme. Over the six

years between 2003 and 2009, 5000 branches closed, many of them in

rural areas like this. The Post Office had been making a loss and

they needed to act. So what's become of the communities which

were affected? Gill Dummigan has This is a tale of the differing

fortunes of three sub-Post Offices. Greenodd in Cumbria, Swarthmoor,

also in Cumbria, and East Pines in Cleveleys, Lancashire. Greenodd,

run by Janet Willis, used to be full-time. We used to have secured

his schemes, doors, everything. it's open just three half days a

week, the equipment shared between Janet, and another Post Office.

think customers have difficulty with it and we still get customers

coming in who think we are going to be open and cannot. They cannot be

used to it. We are not as busy as we were because you get a lot more

people coming into post parcels and things like that. Janet's customers

are also less than thrilled with the current arrangements. Well, it

is good, but you've got to remember which days it is open, and it

sometimes isn't convenient. You have to go to the next village.

think it is a shame because this is a lively centre for our communities.

Reducing it as it is means inconvenience. It is the

Government's doing to put the Post Office on to a commercial basis and

they have failed to recognise the network of rural Post Offices is a

public service! But they're better off than Dorothy and Jackie in

Swarthmore. Their post office was closed altogether in 2008. It's

being converted into a couple of houses now. It provided a meeting

place, a place to catch up with all the local gossip... Just a general

chat place where people could relax. What has life be like since it

closed? The Post Office was the heart of the village. When it went,

and of course the postmaster's salary went, which supported the

shop, it crucified the village. I know that is a strong word, but I

feel very strongly about it. Dorothy and Jackie are so concerned

about the lack of village amenities, they've set up their own community

groups. Elderly people would walk a few yards to the shop, have a

natter and walk back. That has been taken away. All they do now is

getting into a vehicle. Going, coming back and closing the door.

Could this be the fate of the Post Offices? The commission says it has

put a halt to closures. There's a pilot scheme running limited Post

Office services in the garages, corner shops and other shops. And

here's one at the Spar shop in Fiveways in Stockport. You can

operated alongside your associated business so that cuts down on

staffing costs, and it means we have longer opening hours, and

hopefully customers will use the Post Office is full, and we will

look to take on the more of these. Meanwhile, in Cleveleys, Anne Palk

Smith has taken matters into her own hands. She's added not just a

shop, but an online cafe with special courses, and even a time

bank, where locals can swap skills. I think Post Offices are in a

unique situation. Most people at some point might use the Post

Office so it is a good focal point to get people together and

disseminate information. Even in a small village like Greenodd, Janet

could possibly benefit from the new Post Office Local scheme when it's

rolled out countrywide. In Swarthmore, however, it may be too

late. The one village shop disappeared with the post office.

Everything boils down to money. Isn't it time that people just

stopped and thought about people for a change?

We've moved into the village and with me is the Lib Dem MP for

For Westmorland and Lonsdale, Tim Farron, and Cllr Mark Wilson, who

represents Labour on South Lakes District Council. There was a Post

Office here, and finding alternative location for the Post

Office was difficult and we have three days a week and a reach

serviced at this church. This outreach Post Office, it is

becoming a familiar sight. Yes. Most people would like a full-time

post of has combined with a grocer's or a newsagent especially

in a place like this. What is critical is you maintain a post of

his presence in rural areas. The 3,000 that closed over the last

government and thousands more previously was important and it

draws the line now in the closures. We will be investing in them.

will come back to meet the investment in a minute, but it was

Labour's fault about the closures. I wouldn't go so far. We took some

positive views about the future investment. Post Office Counters

have been turned into a success story. We need to see how it goes

in the future. In what way a success? Of an proffered? Moving

towards proffered, I believe. If steps hadn't been taken, even Lord

Mandelson said, you've got to work smarter. In the meantime, we've

lost 5 thousands -- 5,000 Post Office branches which has a huge

impact on communities for. There is a poor back to the past, but, sadly,

the money and the cost of running the Post Offices and the people

standing around without customers, it cannot go on in the future.

you agree with that? In smaller places that lost their Post Offices,

they wouldn't say they watch over providing for people. People miss

that Post Offices, there is a clear demand for a Post Office in those

areas but they were closed because of an arbitrary decision made by

the Labour government at the time. All Post Offices struggle for

business because governments over the years have taken away services

they could have run and operated. What can be done now? What can the

coalition to? It is about raising money to make sure the Post Office

their work... There is no money. Actually, the network is the only

thing that brings in money in the public's -- public service. Royal

Mail is getting �2 billion, going into the Post Office network, which

will not be privatised. The aim is Post Offices will not close from

now on. You cannot legislate biggest business failure from time

to time, but we have to make sure the devastation that was wreaked by

the last government is not going to be repeated. What do you think

about the privatisation of Royal Mail? Will that have an effect on

Post Offices? There is a mixture of feeling about that. We do depend on

the Royal Mail. Post Office Counters is another issue and

people have got lots more options these days. The Post Office is

reviewed in communities are part of what the Labour Party were doing in

government and now is to see intelligent sustainability. With

this closure programme, it seems it has bid again on the rural areas,

the areas that need them more than anywhere else because town centres

will always have them. I hear what you're saying, but I do know coming

from a small town... Financially it wasn't viable? It doesn't matter

that an old person or disabled person cannot get to a post of us?

That is not what I am arguing for. I am arguing that to pay for those

services, everybody had to pay extra for every other service. It

is unfortunate but it is a fact of life. Post Offices are going to be

unviable if you take away their rights to issue tax licences etc.

It made it difficult for Post Offices to survive but the

important thing is to raise money and that is what the Royal Mail

privatisation is for so we can invest in the Post Offices. So we

can compete against T N T, so we are not forced to deliver on the

cheap. So, did Labour introduced too much competition into the Post

Offices? They've already got a slight advantage when they put

their Mail into the male, it goes cheaper than Royal Mail! These are

things people cannot understand. We want one system that works well.

would agree with that. We will end on that happy note!

Now, what is it about politicians and straight answers? Present

company excepted, of course. But it is true to say that they can

sometimes go to great lengths to avoid answering a question.

I have accounted for my decision to dismiss Derek Lewis... Did you

threaten to overrule him as much in great detail before the House of

Commons. You were not answering the question for. The important aspect

of this, which is very clear to bear in mind... I am going to be

frightfully rude, but, I'm sorry. It is yes or no. I will give you an

answer. Did you threaten to overawe him? I cannot for us that.

Would you welcome it was make any MP that wants to do it, it is their

decision. Would you welcome it? is going to depend on the Kays.

Our Political Editor Arif Ansari made a trip to Westminster to find

out more. Politicians may be notorious for not answering

questions, but how fair is that, after all, how many of us have

avoided answering, what did you do last night? I will be going inside

Parliament to discuss this with two North West MPs, both now a deputy

speakers of the House of Commons. Some people who know something when

it comes to questions and answers. First, Tony Schumacher presents the

problem. We live in a simple world where we are asking each other

questions and answering them. I can say to the dull, want to go from

all? He will go, yes, please. We'll do it, but for some reason

politicians cannot answer a question. We ask them, they cannot

answer. I wonder what it be like if we lived in a world where everyone

answered questions just like a politician. Let's find out. Can I

have a bag of nails, pleased as make a good questions. I just want

a bag of nails. Under the previous ownership of this shop, nail supply

has improved durum year to this point. I just want a bag of nails,

please. Look, it's not just as simple as me giving you a bag of

nails. I just want a bag of nails, please. I would like to say you can

have a bag of nails, but... Don't be a mirror, I understand why

politicians cannot answer. -- don't get me wrong. It might be

nice if just occasionally they could answer the question with a

simple yes or no. People might start to trust them a little bit

more. They might start to believe what they were saying. We might

start to believe they believe what they are saying. We will never know.

Week are in a part of Parliament we rarely get to see. It is because

corridor and the North West has got not one but two MPs that a Deputies

because and we will go inside and meet them. -- two MPs that Arab

deputy speakers and we will go inside and meet them. Hello. I

haven't been inside the office for a deputy speaker. Welcome to the

coffers. So, Nigel Evans, the Conservative MP for Ribble Valley.

It is unusual to have to make deputy speakers from the same

region. When you are doing the job, to what extent do you feel part of

it is to get ministers to answer MPs' questions? First ball, not the

region, but the county! Let's get Lancashire mentioned. It is

important ministers respond to questions. We have to oversee the

chamber, making sure the chain that is listening but also getting

through the questions in the appropriate time. -- the chamber is

listing. What I would say it is to make sure the questions are

succinct, and the reply as well, in order to get through the questions.

We are not responsible for the answers ministers give. Points of

order are made from time to time, but the minister's answer questions

in their own way. They are not allowed to lie, or even accuse

somebody of lying, but sometimes members inadvertently mislead the

House, then see responsibility for us is to insure an apology is the

them. Speaking more generally, why do you think it is politicians have

a reputation for not giving straight answers to straight

questions? Why not? Answer that one. You are absolutely right. The

perception is that people expect a yes or no Where, may become a

politician say, it is not as simple as you saw mauve. They want to give

another answer and MPs want to give an answer that is more fulfilling.

That obviously is difficult. Sometimes they won't answer the

question Atul forced what they want to give a full answer. - Marach the

question at all. What they want is to give a full answer. The last

thing the minister wants to say it is, yes, this is a scandal. He will

say, there are a contributing factors. He will talk about trains

and global factors. The public to get somewhat angered politicians

now and again because they will not do yes, no staff and not give the

answer they want, but ministers are there to give full answers.

Robert deputy speakers. Has life changed for you? -- you are both

did it is because. Dramatically. We have to be far more non-partisan.

People need to have an assurance we are not going to be partisan in the

chair. We have to adjudicate on the debates, keep order. If anybody

suspects we are going to be political ourselves, we are going

to lose the confident of the house. That is difficult for you because

you are a combative MP. I think we were both tribal in our ways, but

the fact is, having the honour of going into the chair to adjudicate

on debates is vitally important, too. Was it a difficult change for

you? What I would say is I was lucky. I get the budget, the big

event of the years. I am lucky I get it. It is good for Chorley. The

honour on the main stage, but it comes along, who would have thought

that Lancashire accent would be in that chair? People stop me in town

and say, it's great to see trawling. It is great to hear the Lancashire

accent. -- to seek surely. That is what is important to people. I am

the deputy speaker, and we have got Nigel and torn to back it up, and

we are an effective team. We get special access to ministers as well.

If there is an issue we want to raise, we can say to a minister,

please come and see us, and they do. Just time to say, order, order,

time is up. Thank you very much, Mr Deputy Speaker and Mr Deputy

Speaker. Tim Farron MP for Westmorland and

Lonsdale is still with me. They make a good comedy duo! Years, in

the 70s. Why can't politicians give us that ONS are? You have to tell

the truth, because you are going to have to be found out at some time.

The problem is you go into an interview and there is one thing

you don't want to be all over the newspapers the day after. You give

a ten-minute interview and the ten- second controversial thing you say

is the thing that ends up on the news stands. Politicians have to be

careful, but you might as well tell the truth because you are going to

get found out. Ed Miliband got himself wrapped up in knots. If he

had said something straight... Be yourself. That is the best

advice to anybody. You may give an unpopular answer, but you will get

away unscathed if you are honest for. Thank you for giving us your

straight answers. That's all from us in the North