06/11/2011 The Politics Show Scotland


Political magazine presented by Jon Sopel and Isabel Fraser.

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This week on the Politics Show: Late on Friday I stood outside the


parliament in Greece, watching Papandreou face down his in peas in


a knife-edge confidence vote. He won. Tomorrow the international


markets will give their verdict. So is this Greek tragedy beginning its


final act? Does Ed Miliband support the St


Paul's protesters here at home? He says this morning that only the


reckless would ignore the danger signals.


And David Thomson is in the skies over Glasgow.


The SNP believe it is time for Scotland to fly solo. Would this


have a prop -- have an effect on how we will govern?


On Politics Show Scotland: More on the eurozone crisis, and we will


speak to the new leader of the Scottish Conservatives, and asking


Ming Campbell why the Lib Dems are having another commission on home


Apology for the loss of subtitles for 1955 seconds


It is about controlling Scotland's resources. If Scotland was


independent now, we would be the 6th most prosperous comp -- country


in the economic dog there are many arguments about having a fairer and


more just society. And not been governed by a...


If offered to an auction between Labour rule or Tory rule -- home


rule or Tory rule in Scotland, most would vote for home rule. RBS and


HBOS would have gone up in flames if you were independent, and with


their collective liabilities, 30 times the size of Scotland's GDP.


It would be in a worse state than Ireland and Greece and Portugal.


in a better state than UK, Denmark and Finland, which are better off


than the United Kingdom. We may have regulated the Bank's better,


rather than making some catastrophic mistakes like


Westminster. Maybe be be joining in with the international community to


try to stabilise finances. The reality is, of Scotland became an


independent company at the moment, her resources to population, we


would be the 6th most prosperous countries. Not just because of oil


and gas resources, but that Scottish renewables are also a


large source of wealth, and to not try to talk -- we do not try to


talk down our nation. One of the interesting things is,


would the end of the signalled by devo-max? Well, there is no need


for a Barnett formula If you have full and fiscal responsibility. On


that basis, we would be hoping for your advocacy and support. If we


were an independent Scotland, that happens as a matter of course.


English people are pretty supportive of Scotland's


aspirations. But the Westminster political class is not. If they


keep moaning about subsidised Scots, why are they not supporting the


campaign for financial independence? Surely they should be


the cheerleaders. Who's going to be able to Fulton the referendum? You


have talked about the Scottish nation, but will Scottish people


who live in England and live abroad be able to vote? The mandates from


the voter's role of Scotland. That is people resident of Scotland, and


also includes people abroad who have been registered over the last


10 years. So it is the taxation base for Scotland. It does not


matter where you are born, it is whether you are contributing to


Scotland as a country. You could not have registered overseas


voters? We do have registered overseas voters at the present


moment. That is on the voters' roll. That is not unusual or different.


That is the basis on which we had the referendum on devolution. It


will be the people on the voters' roll in Scotland. I will leave you


to a beautiful day. Thank you. Later in the programme, viewers in


Scotland can hear what the Scottish Conservatives' leader makes of all


Welcome. Where now for the eurozone crisis? And what will be the ripple


effect for Scotland? It is all change in the Scottish Tory party


leadership, but are there thoughtful new policies to detoxify


the brand, or was it just seemed old message delivered by a new


face? And how will Ruth Davidson lead a


divided party forward? I am at the National Liberal Club


in London, wondering what the latest Home Rule Commission has


four. -- is for. We will be looking at why teachers


are planning to strike for the first time in 25 years. Here is the


lunchtime news with Sally McNair. A seven-year-old boy has died from


his injuries following a car crash on the A9 in Perthshire. The child


was seriously injured in the collision north of Bankfoot on the


Perth-to-Inverness road. A 31-year- old man, who was in the passenger


seat, also died in the crash on Friday evening.


A senior QC has branded the Scottish Conservatives


"dysfunctional morons" and resigned from the party. Paul McBride who


was a justice adviser to Annabel Goldie resigned just hours after


Ruth Davidson was elected the party's new leader. He insists his


departure has nothing to do with Ms Davidson, he is resigning over the


Scottish Tories performance on criminal justice.


If you were out enjoying the fireworks last night, spare a


thought for the people of Oban. A technical hitch saw the community


fireworks all released at the same time during the town's display on


Friday night. The event usually lasts around half an hour, but it


was over in around a minute! The organisers had to apologise to a


crowd of hundreds, and explain that they had had their lot. And the


weather: Glorious day across most of the country, and set to stay


that way with some good sunny spells developing. Across the


Western Isles and Skye, it will be cloudier at times. Temperatures


will peak around 12 Celsius, and winds will be light. The


combination of clear skies and light winds will allow mist and fog


to re-form again after dusk. There is more from the newsroom at 6.15pm.


In the meantime, back to Isabel for the rest of the Politics Show.


As Greece remains in political deadlock over its debt crisis, the


prospect of it defaulting and dropping out of the euro is the


ongoing nightmare scenario for political leaders across Europe. If


Greece goes bankrupt, economists predict a new credit crunch. Even


less cash for banks to lend to businesses and individuals would


have a direct and highly damaging impact on Scottish manufacturing


and exports. The UK Government is prepared to increase funding to the


IMF's bailout fund, up to �40 billion.


No country in the global economy can be an island. We are an


enormously dependent world. We have to play a role as one of the


largest economies in the world, we set up the IMF to make sure that


there was a mechanism to support countries. To be clear, you are


happy with the money that we give to the IMF going to Greece? I am.


That has been agreed. The Greek Prime Minister George


Papandreou will meet the leader of the opposition Andonis Samarass


later today to try to break the political deadlock. Mr Samarass is


so far refusing to join a government of national unity,


despite this being a condition of further financial support being


given to Greece. Without this money, economists predict Greece could be


bankrupt and out of the euro by Christmas. In our Edinburgh studio


is the SNP MEP Alyn Smith. And with me here is David Martin the Labour


Member of the European Parliament. Thank you for coming in. Do you


think a default is inevitable? There are considerable problems


with the Greek economy. It is arguable that default has already


happened. The fact that the Prime Minister of Greece is trying to


form a coalition unity government is a positive step, but I fear that


it is too little, too late. It is dreadful news for the people of


Greece and the wider European economy. More money is going into


the IMF, and David Cameron said that will not necessarily go to be


allowed the eurozone, but Danny Alexander says it will. We did make


more sense if they international bank became a last resort? It is


very clear that we do not have a crisis over the euro, as such. The


eurozone is stronger than the British economy. We have an


internal banking problem inside the euro-zone. It is helping the Greek


banking system. If we do not help that, that will have an impact on


the French, German and eventually on the UK banking system. If we do


not settle the Greek financial banking crisis, we have a real


problem. I agree, that we are at one minute to midnight, where it is


not clear if this is able to come through this crisis on its own.


Greece does not, and we have a freeze on lending, with a massive


loss of confidence, and potentially a domino effect with other


countries like Spain, Italy and Ireland, what effect could that


have in Scotland? People tend to think that this is an argument --


Academicals argument a long way away. It is not. The banks are


committed to vary his debt to that they are holding already for Greece.


-- the... We do need to see much more co-ordinated international


action across the eurozone and wider across the IMF, than we have


seen today. The G20 summit we just saw was depressing. Those of us


looking for answers, we did not see any. What would you make of the


role of the European Central Bank in the central issue about what


role it should play? Germany would have great concerns about inflation,


were the Bank to take a bigger role here. The Germans are already


talking about treaty revision and changed to those countries who are


part of the eurozone. The European Central Bank needs to come into


that in terms of the role it should play. Presently it is structured on


the German model, that inflation fighting is his number one priority.


We need to dust that off, and see if we need to look at other roles


for it as a lender of last resort, but making things up as we go along


is a danger. We need to see the people of Greece and their


politicians taking this seriously, All the levers that could have been


used here to persuade the Greek political club and the wider


population to adopt a certain attitude, none of that seems to


have worked. We know that 70% of Greeks want to say within the Euro


and that they see it as a shield. But nothing seems to be persuasive


the end of this. There is a lack of reality. A partly. But I think we


got the right package for one half of the problem one week ago. That


dealt with the banking crisis. I have sympathy for the Greeks and


other European companies. If there was nothing in that package to


stimulate growth. What we have been arguing for in the European


Parliament is a system of European bonds. Governments can then borrow


cheaply to get the economy moving. That seems to punitive? To punitive.


It does not stimulate growth or get the economy moving. There is a


demand for infrastructure projects, which would help get the economy


moving. People will not borrow more money if they know they will see


their level of income being reduced. And we need to stimulate demand.


Allen, do you think there is enough discipline within the Greek


political structures, or whatever amount of money you put in, to


actually, to this? Simple answer, no. George Papandreou made a number


of promises the best part of three months ago. I said on Good morning


Scotland that the people of Greece are just not up for this. They're


not behind their politicians. It is only a matter of time for the Greek


economy. Thank you. On Friday, the majority of the Tory


faithful decided the 32-year-old newbie MSP Ruth Davidson was the


best candidate to lead them out of the electoral wilderness shying


away from Murdo Fraser's radical plan to scrap the existing party


and start all over again. As the dust settles and the membership are


supposed to shuffle into a united line behind Davidson, Christine


Macleod has this report. I am very pleasure is to declare


Ruth Davidson the leader... Ruth Davidson's Christ the top has been


meteoric. She was a party member for three years and a MSP for just


six months. Now she has beaten Murdo Fraser -- Murdo Fraser to the


top. She defended the status quo. am disappointed I was not able to


persuade more of our members and my vision for the future was the


correct one. But I congratulate Ruth Davidson on her victory and


she will have my full support. what convince the party should have


the right choice for them? Is it partly that Ruth Davidson is seen


as a younger version of the popular outgoing leader, Annabel Goldie.


Many would argue she is just as charismatic, smart and articulate.


But if these qualities did not help Annabel Goldie, what chance has


Rhys Davids and? I think, to be honest, are what Murdo Fraser


proposed was a last throw of the dice for the Scottish Conservative


Party. What Ruth Davidson proposes is more of the same - trying a bit


harder next time, one more heave. The very approach the party has


adopted since 1987 -- 1997 and it has failed to produced any


beneficial results. Despite being young, she has failed to convince


some of the Young Conservatives that she can lead the party back to


victory without adopting some of the ideas of Murdo Fraser. They say


they welcome her refreshing face but would far rather she had a


refreshing policies. She has to adopt the bulk of Murdo Fraser's


proposals to make his Conservative Party more independent and an


independent voice for her at Scotland as part of the Union. He


she has to have any success electorally, she will have to take


on what Murdo Fraser has said. new leader now faces big challenges,


not least by she goes about rebuilding the Scottish


Conservatives. 45% of the party backed Murdo Fraser for leader.


leadership election has been quite divisive. You have certainly had


one candidate who has put forward quite radical options for change


and a lot of people have bought into that. A lot of party members,


even on first or second preferences, have decided that it is quite a


good idea. She has a job on that level to unite party members. But


she also has it with the MSPs. A large number of whom really


supported Murdo Fraser. There are more big challenges ahead. Squaring


up to Alex Salmond at Hollywood, the test of the council elections


in six months' time and fighting in the SNP in a referendum on.


And now, at Ruth Davidson is joining me. What happens to Murdo


Fraser? I spoke to him after the count on Friday. It was all quite


chaotic. I made sure I phoned all of the MSP group on Friday and


talked them through the next few days. We're having a good meeting


on Tuesday lunchtime and we will have set down face-to-face as with


all the members after that. We will talk about sorting people into


their new roles. What is the new role for Murdo Fraser? I need to


discuss that with him first. It would be breaching a certain level


of protocol to discuss at a live television! But there will be a


very big role for him. This was an energising contest for our party.


Are we really did capture the imagination of our electorate


within the party and within the media. I think that we're a much


stronger party for having had this election. Presumably, Murdo Fraser


has to have a very big role. He has a very substantial minority within


the party who think you direction is completely the wrong direction


to head in. Unless you take Murdo Fraser with you, you're not going


to take them with the, are you? Absolutely. It would only be fair


to Murdo Fraser. After the result, he was very gracious and said he I


had his full backing. How do you square that circle? You saying


there is an interesting situation were dear presented yourself as a


candidate for change, but actually, a lot of people analysing what we


know so far of your policies say it is just the same policies with a


different voice. Murdo Fraser wants something very radical and


different. As a new leader, how do you square that circle? You have to


take into account for we have been. A leadership election is a forum


where different members of the party put forward their ideas of


where they want the party to go. In the selection, we do not have some


form of opaque electoral college. It is one-member, one-vote. The


party decide on the direction it wants the party to go on for some


again three as that leader. The party will come together. We know


that a significant number of MSPs did not support you. There is a


message quoted in the Sunday Herald today from a senior Tory saying it,


"I or her nothing. I have nothing but contempt for her. Was the last


longer than Wendy"? And... I am not sure that that is a MSP. It is a


matter of fact that a significant number of MSPs do not support you.


This is a vicious quote. You're suggesting it is all sweetness and


light in the party. Passions run high. It is a leadership election.


I want to see the party working at all levels and coming closer


together. The political party is much more than myself. It is a


council representatives, are activists and are Office workers.


It is about moving us forward. Let's look at some of your policies.


The test of our policies will be to ensure that they all this up the


biggest in our society as well as the strongest, according to you. We


knew we introduce prescription charges? We would, absolutely. A


prescription charges were not universal. They did not apply to


people who run certain benefits or a were pregnant or under a certain


age or at university. The estimate is that 600 and 1000 adults and


Scotland are earning less than �16,000 and were not entitled to


free prescriptions. If they were to reintroduce it, we have to look at


the parameters of that. So there would be a cut-off level for this?


Below a certain income you did not have to pay them? I love the


presumption that we are the Government of Scotland, but yes!


What is your policy on prescription charges? They if you can afford to


pay, you should pay. The weather �16,000 is the cut-off for not,


there is work to do on that. This is a key policy and who do not know


whether cut-off comes. Isabel, I laid out yesterday with the


direction of travel for us as a party. The direction of trouble for


us as a party in balls reassessing our policies going forward. I am


not the no change candidate. A lot of our chain for the structural and


policy based. It involves Breen people in to be involved in those


discussions. As leader, I do not unilaterally we write our manifesto


tomorrow and impose it. But you must have very clear ideas how you


translate this into specific policies. Can I ask you about the


Scotland Bill? You said this was a line in the sand. So far and no


further. From a poll that we see today conducted by the BBC politics


show, it shows that the majority of Scots actually want more powers


than exist at the moment. What it said is, do you want more powers


that exist at the moment? The Scotland Bill has a been


implemented yet. It is quite clear. Our political staff have reviewed


this in detail. It is more powers than those that will be brought


forward for will be implemented through the Scotland Bill. He had


also said another bills, let's see how the Scotland Bill has


implemented before we decide what we do. Is it in absolute line in


the sand or not? A letter to make this incredibly clear for you. What


I said on the Scotland Bill is, let's get it in and working on the


ground. I do not see us going hugely beyond that in terms of


devolving more powers. I qualified that with, in exactly the same


statement, because this was at the launch of my campaign were one of


your journalistic colleagues asked me this question, it is about


making sure that evolution works. If there are small tweets in the


future, then we need to look at them in terms of the practical


applications of the Scotland Bill, but in terms of whether Scotland


Bill takes us in terms of devolving some levels of fiscal autonomy and


certain parts to Scotland, that is where I am comfortable and where


want to see it stopped. SVRs. you're saying whatever the polls


suggest, I have made up my mind? was asked on my position and I give


my position. Can I ask you that given it is generally accepted that


you were the preferred candidate of the powers that be in the party in


the London, and that he certainly got the vote of some of the old


diehards, the suspicion would be that that has happened because they


feel that they can control youth. You have said that David Cameron


will not be your boss. David Cameron would not be the boss of


any buddied he won the selection. You're making very sweeping


statements. In terms of saying that I got a huge amount of support, I


am very pleased that some respected members of the party made their


preference for me known. But someone like Murdo Fraser made


other decisions. It is an unfair comparison. Also, David Cameron was


very clear that he showed no preference for any member who was


standing in this race. So David Cameron is not your boss. He is not


my boss, because I'm the Leader of all Conservatives in Scotland. That


is why the situation has changed. So it is only a structural point.


It is not about you having an independent attitude about what


happens in Scotland. I want to make policy but differs from David


Cameron. Name three of his policies that you think he is getting one at


the moment. I have big disagreements with Kenneth Clarke


on short-term sentences. That is one area of disagreement. I


disagree with the Chancellor on a couple of areas, which I have


written to him about. Which are? One is about cancelling tax


specific support for the computer games industry, which would have


raised a huge benefit to the computer games industry which is


very big in Scotland. I intend to continue to lobby the Chancellor on


not. Another area that I talked about is the tax status of the


Commonwealth Games in Glasgow 2014. Why is a different to the Olympic


Games 2012 tax status? I want to see the best athletes coming up


here, the best businesses being able to compete in the same way, to


build this area, to be involved in the event, and I think that I will


continue to use any and all influence that I have to fight


Scott Bond's corner. When you were quoted as saying that David Cameron


should set the time for the independence referendum, or what


was meant by that? There were questions about whether there was a


mechanism and whether London would do that. I said, if Alex Salmond is


going to rig a referendum with the second question and saying is one


decision outweighs the Independent's decision, but saying


yes for independence, there is a point where the Prime Minister has


to stand in. Ideally, it to be sorted out in Scotland but it would


If it is apparent that Alex Salmond is rigging the elections, will I


advise that we will take a stand on this? I am comfortable with doing


so. Thank you. With an independence campaign looming, albeit a few


years down the track, the other pro-union parties now have to


decide how they will fight that campaign.


Will they offer the voters even more powers for Holyrood, to


counter the SNP's full-blown independence? The Liberal Democrats


are first off the starting block. Sir Menzies Campbell, a former


Olympic athlete, is in charge of his party's latest Home Rule


Commission He says he will take his time to reach his conclusions. We


will be speaking to him shortly. It was William Gladstone who, back


in the late 1800s, sought to persuade his fellow liberals that


they should become the party of home rule. At the time it was Home


Rule for Ireland, and his conversion because he needed the


support of Irish nationalists in the Commons the stop many a


discussion about the merits a lot of home rule will have been had


here, where Gladstone himself established in 1886, a few hundred


metres from Parliament. According to reports, many a whisky


will have been had here, too. But his taste in home rule was not


shared by all his party. Through the centuries, the label has stuck,


and even today the Liberal Democrats see themselves as the


party of home rule. The number of yes faults, 1,230,937.


Liberals backed devolution in the 1979 referendum, and after that


failed under the 40% rule, supported the setting-up of a


Scottish constitutional Convention to come up with a blueprint for


self government. It was not until 1927 -- 1997 at that dream was


realised, and the creation of the Scottish Parliament. Coalition poly


-- politics in Edinburgh were born. But Lib Dems and dash FOR home rule


were an satiated. Five years ago, Lord Steel was back with a


commission that move things on. A blueprint including financial


autonomy. The fact that this deal Commission


is there makes it very hard for the Liberal Democrats to play an active


role in the constitutional debate. On the other hand, the problem with


the commission is that it recommended Unionism without


telling them why -- why the union was doing various things.


With an independence for a It was arguably Gladstone's home


will plans that helped foster a nationalism that paved the way for


the Irish Republic's independence. More than a century on, some may


wonder if Scotland is on the same path.


And the MP for North East Fife and former Liberal Democrat Leader, Sir


Menzies Campbell, is here with me now.


Thank you for coming in. An outside observer might say that the Lib


Dems are all over the shop on this one. They support federalism, Lord


Steel came up with radical proposals for fiscal autonomy, and


the Lib Dems and Holyrood backtracked on Calman Commission.


What is your remit on this? It is to set out in detail, fill all the


gaps in the traditional Liberal Democrat policy on home rule. That


used to be described as large-scale economics, but the world has moved


on since then. That is why it is necessary for us to flesh out the


bounce, and we will do it at local government level, National Holyrood


level, and Westminster. We will do it for Europe, as well. But do you


think that the argument has moved on beyond what has been outlined in


the Scotland Bill? It is easy to see the Scotland Bill's Christmas


tree on which you hang things. -- as a Christmas tree. The Calman


Commission was our careful and considered approach, and we are


setting out a considered approach to the ultimate destination -- to


decide what the ultimate destination should be. No point in


responding its two sermons on the Mount from Alex Salmond. Let us do


it in a proper time, and get the right answer. To a lot of first


observers,... My Commission, which is composed by experienced people


in local and national government, will seek to put flesh on the bones


of home rule. The poll makes it clear that it breaks into thirds. A


third for independence, a third for status quo, and a little more than


a third for powers for a Scottish Parliament. If we lead on from that,


into the independence question. There should not be one.


Independence is such a major departure from the arrangements for


a number of years. -- there should be one. If the public say they want


independence that will be a clear expression of opinion. If they say


no, we then have to ask what else? But putting two questions into the


referendum seems an interesting device that has been exposed to try


to lump the votes together, and then say, here is a mandate. But it


would seem that the majority of people want devo-max, however that


is defined. But I do not know what devo-max means. But we are going to


define it in the context of home rule. They easily understood,


something that needs the flesh put on the bones. If you define it, and


it is something popular with the public, it gives the Liberal


Democrats momentum, why not have devo-max against independence as


the auction? If you think about it, for 300 years, we have been part of


the United Kingdom. Independence represents an enormous step change,


and that is why I believe the question should be put in clear and


unequivocal terms to the Scottish people. I have explained what the


consequences are of a yes or "no" vote. But it sounds that you have


no confidence at this stage that the ideas you come up with women


aged and energise the public. you are looking at this regard in a


vote for independence. Is there a clear mandate for independence? The


resolve that one way or another. If it is yes, then clearly we will be


embarking on a complicated set of arrangements for withdrawal from


the big United Kingdom. If it is no, I ask what kind of arrangements


they want. We can then go on to the detail for. In that detail, Lord


Steel's commission set out in great detail how it would work, but not


the rationale for staying in the Union. Do you have to look at that


this time around and making the argument? It is part of it,


obviously. I believe in the United Kingdom, and believe we are


stronger as part of the United Kingdom as a unit. I am opposed to


independence because I believe Scotland would be less significant


and important. Do you think the argument was made clearly enough in


Lord Steel's commission? I am not rewriting that. This is the


Campbell Commission, and we have the right people to help us. I have


had a lot of offers in the last week from people with good


constitutional knowledge and understanding. Anyone from south of


the border? We are hearing that you can see what you like, but you


cannot impose a settlement without English support. I have had offers,


yes. They do not want to be aligned publicly, but are willing to offer


advice and assistance. When would you report? As soon as we have got


it right. I believe in getting it right, rather than quick. Late next


year? I would imagine around autumn next year. Thank you.


Earlier, a new survey indicated that 28% of those questioned in


Scotland and 24 for English respondents favoured a severing of


the Union. They were also asked about the other option, devo-max.


The survey also indicated a further third wanted more powers than is


outlined in the Scotland Bill. As usual, the issue of timing and


mechanics of the referendum came up. This is a matter for the First


Minister, who has brought forward their of -- proposition. He has


been sketchy about what he will do, and when. I have repeatedly asked


for details of the referendum to be spelt out for us to see a draft


bill, so we can see what is proposed. We campaigned in the


election, and said we would have a referendum on a straight question


on independence, which would take place in the second half of this


parliamentary term. We also allowed the option of asking a question


called devo-max, on page three of the manifesto. In response to that


timescale, putting forward the people of Scotland, we got the most


overwhelming mandate in Scottish political he has to be.


With me some -- for some expert analysis, we have Mandy Rhodes, the


editor of Holyrood magazine, and we have Brian Taylor. We have heard so


many as Campbell saying no to the referendum. -- Sir Menzies Campbell.


I think most people want independence, or not. It is clear


from the Euro poll, most people -- two-thirds of people want change.


If the Lib Dems could get some momentum behind them, do you think


that politically they could miss a trick? I think everyone seems to be


frightened that they are being tricked into something by Alex


Salmond. If the Lib Dems got their weight behind devo-max, which is a


phrase that has not been coined by Alex Salmond, perhaps they could


win. Brian Taylor, what did you make of it? The second question,


that will only be on the ballot paper if there is agitation for it.


What does Alex Salmond want to do? He wants a fall-back position of


independents goes down, and wants to prise independence away from the


UK party and prise Liberal Democrats from the Tories, in other


words to divide the Unionist position. I think they are some


Liberal Democrats in Scotland who are tempted to get devo-max on the


ballot paper, but I think Michael Miranda Campbell Commission will


have their way, the Liberal Democrats will not agitate for the


option. -- Michael Moore and D Campbell Commission. Could it be a


straight choice between devo-max and in the bend ins? That would be


what was suggested by the academic who was having the discussions with


the First Minister. Another words, you have a question asking if you


want change, then a question saying independence versus devo-max. But


Alex Salmond is saying his preferences for yes or No to


independence. He will only have the other question if there is


agitation for that from other sources. It is clear that they are


coming towards a position of not agitating for it, so it is more


likely than not that the referendum will be a straight yes or no. I am


not absolutely certain. What did you make of Ruth Davidson's line in


the sand on the Scotland Bill be reiterated? I think the problem is


that she is someone who has said there is a lane in the sand, and


she wants no more powers. Yet, two thirds of the people say that they


want more powers. Other -- either she is going to be moved off


realise she will not increase support. In terms of Murdo Fraser's


supporters in the party, people who said they wanted very radical


change, how difficult Willerby for her to come up with anything


persuasive to them, never mind the rest of the public? It is difficult.


The reality is that 60% of party members could even be bothered to


vote in an election that they did not even need to leave the house to


Fulton, and only half of them voted for Ruth Davidson in the first


preference to be leader, and the other half voted for people who


wanted the party to disband and changed completely. She is going to


have to come out very quickly with radical ideas that she wants the


people to stay with her. biggest problems she faces is the


immediate problem in Parliament. Yes, she is the leader of the whole


party, she has to energise them and work with the grass roots. I


understand why she is saying that, but it is platitude, in terms of


the relationship with the party. The challenge is working with that


group, where the majority wanted Murdo Fraser. One MSP even


suggested there would be a work to rule in the parliamentary roles.


They would occupy the front bench positions, but might not be


energetic and enthusiastic about it. Ruth Davidson needs to make sure


they are not just going through the motions. She needs to make sure


they are energetically advancing the course. If anyone can energise


them it is hard. Is that enough, just to be energetic? What does she


have to bring? I agree with Brian, she is very energetic and capable.


She has very little political experience and background. I feel


it was disingenuous to say that she was not backed by Cameron, because


we all knew that David Cameron had her as his favourite -- favoured


candidate. She will get his support, but whether that does her didn't


Scotland, I am not sure. Do you think she can come into the party


at this stage and do the shake-up people think it needs? She has to.


Political magazine presented by Jon Sopel and Isabel Fraser.

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