13/11/2011 The Politics Show Scotland


13/11/2011

Political magazine presented by Jon Sopel and Isabel Fraser.


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Transcript


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This week on the Politics Show: Vince Cable offers sympathy to the

:00:02.:00:06.

St Paul's protesters and threatens tough action on Executive Pay.

:00:07.:00:10.

But what about the economy? The Business Secretary tells us his

:00:10.:00:19.

plan for growth and we get the And are Government plans to take

:00:19.:00:25.

child benefit from higher rate And on the Politics Show Scotland:

:00:25.:00:28.

We hear from the Chancellor, George Osborne, who warns the prospect of

:00:28.:00:30.

an independence referendum is causing uncertainty in the Scottish

:00:31.:00:32.

economy, with major international companies worried about investing

:00:33.:00:35.

here. And we take a look at a new export

:00:35.:00:45.
:00:45.:00:45.

Apology for the loss of subtitles for 1312 seconds

:00:45.:22:38.

- education. How big a draw is a Trying to cut too far tried to cut

:22:38.:22:41.

too far and too fast. The longer this goes on, the bigger the pain

:22:41.:22:50.

is going to be. I do not think they We have heard from Vince Cable

:22:50.:22:55.

saying the need to get the growth back into the economy. We read that

:22:55.:23:00.

there may be many bought forward for infrastructure projects. D U

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Welcome mat? The fittest true. Your first question to Vince Cable was

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this is the equivalent of a war in the economy. That is quite right.

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But after the Second World War, we took a number of years to repay at

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a higher number of debt. The Government and Vince Cable tried to

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get this done in one Parliament and it is backfiring, leading to higher

:23:24.:23:28.

borrowing as well as slower growth. We have set out a plan more

:23:28.:23:31.

balanced on the deficit and which acts now to get growth and jobs

:23:31.:23:34.

moving. It used the case that the Government is now adopting one of

:23:34.:23:37.

those plans by bringing forward infrastructure investment then good

:23:37.:23:42.

but it has to be real, it has to have a stimulus for the economy.

:23:42.:23:49.

George Osborne is talking about �50 billion. That has all got to come

:23:49.:23:54.

from private investment. We have had this idea for a year... I just

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want to ask you about your plan. How much will your growth plant

:23:57.:24:02.

cost? We have been very clear that one of the elements will be a

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temporary cut for one year which will cost �12 billion. We have said

:24:08.:24:11.

repeat the ban bonus tax... Do you think it should be for one year or

:24:11.:24:16.

five years? It all depends how long it takes his recovery to get moving.

:24:16.:24:20.

I think that if we act now and we will get the recovery moving over

:24:21.:24:28.

the next year. A year ago we had a recovery and falling unemployment.

:24:28.:24:32.

Vince Cable was ignored, the Liberal Democrat manifesto was

:24:32.:24:37.

whipped up... I would like to go with your plans. �12 million in VAT.

:24:37.:24:42.

What about the rest of it? second part would be a repeat of

:24:42.:24:47.

the bank and its tax, raising �2 billion from and bonuses to spend

:24:47.:24:51.

on 100,000 jobs for young people and housing. That pays for itself.

:24:51.:24:55.

We call for a cut in national insurance, with small firms taking

:24:55.:24:59.

on new employees and the Government had is denied it has failed. There

:24:59.:25:03.

was half a billion pounds for that and it did not work very well. We

:25:03.:25:08.

have also said, but VAT for a year, for help for small companies.

:25:08.:25:11.

People think that might cost half a billion pounds but if you get more

:25:12.:25:18.

growth and jobs that will then pay for itself. Finally, bring forward

:25:18.:25:22.

projects but you cannot have the big investment projects if you do

:25:22.:25:25.

not affect borrowing, which somehow relies upon the private sector.

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George Osborne is a saying �50 billion but there is no meet there.

:25:31.:25:37.

He's been will not work. You have to hold him to account. We need to

:25:37.:25:41.

Labour's plan for jobs in Britain right now. And executive pay. Vince

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Cable is talking about possibly introducing legislation in the New

:25:45.:25:49.

Year. Will you be backing him? he brings forward legislation we

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will balk at hit. I think Vince Cable was confused it is in dispute

:25:54.:25:57.

about the past as well as the future. We actually introduced in

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Government legislation which says that every person paid more than �1

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million, be paying owners should be made public. The Conservative-

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Liberal Democrat Government have used that. Vince Cable does not

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need a new bill. He can do that right now. Why doesn't he just out

:26:14.:26:18.

rather than prevaricate? He has also talked about legislation to

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have work representatives on board, more transparency, voting by

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shareholders. Quite right. We just get on with it. You cannot just sit

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there and say, I have got a problem, and prevaricate about action. On

:26:31.:26:36.

executive pay, growth, jobs, we do not want these things that are all

:26:36.:26:41.

over the place and confused. We want action to get jobs and grid

:26:41.:26:46.

moving out to get our deficit down. We needed quickly and I am afraid

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in the interview today we did not see any signs of leadership action,

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just excuses. Good afternoon. Welcome to The

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Politics Show Scotland. Coming up, in an exclusive interview, the

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Chancellor wars -- and warns the SNP's independence referendum is

:27:05.:27:08.

putting off big business from coming here. I think the

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uncertainty is damaging investment in Scotland and there are major

:27:12.:27:15.

businesses around the world who have asked me in the last tee, tell

:27:15.:27:18.

us what is going on in Scotland. We are worried about making an

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investment. He as the Scottish Government's

:27:22.:27:26.

consultation on same-sex marriage nears a close, will Scots say "I

:27:26.:27:31.

do", and will ministers listen? And selling Scottish education to

:27:31.:27:34.

India. How big a brand is a degree from one of our universities?

:27:34.:27:38.

It has cost two governments and billions of euros but still the

:27:38.:27:43.

economic crisis in Europe ranges on. The turmoil is having an impact

:27:43.:27:49.

here, as forecasts predict the UK economic growth will suffer because

:27:49.:27:53.

of the crisis on the Continent. Plenty to attract the attention of

:27:54.:27:59.

Chancellor George Osborne, them. I caught up with him in a distillery

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in Elgin and asked him how Europe should get out of its current mess?

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There are the issues of leading with -- dealing with the crisis in

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hand, dealing with Italy, the questions raised over even

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countries like France, and that is what all our efforts are fixed on

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at the moment but I do not think that will be the lasting answer.

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The lasting answer is that the countries of the eurozone will have

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to corporate much more closely on the issues of tax and spending,

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where there has got to be more integration. Be kind of thing,

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actually, that Britain would not tolerate. One of the reasons we did

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not jewel the euro. But we have to allow the euros and to do it well

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protected are our interests and making sure that the European Union

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can work for all its members even those that are not in the euro.

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that fiscal union? Something like it. If you think of currency unions

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anywhere in the world, in the UK, in the United States, we do

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transfer money around the country in order to try to get greater

:29:06.:29:08.

equality and -- in the economy. That is what needs to happen in the

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Europe. We are not there yet and there is instability in the euro.

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It is having a huge impact on the Scottish and UK economy and I am

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afraid it is hitting growth and heeding jobs. Gyms says that when

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the evidence changes so do his opinions. Shouldn't you change

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direction to? I fully accept we need to go further, have more

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initiatives, have plans to stimulate housing, getting Hames

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being built, help with more infrastructure, help small

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businesses. I accept all that and we will announce plans for all

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those things in the coming weeks but let's not forget you one not

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into being a European buyer -- finance minister who is terrified

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that he cannot sell his country's debt tomorrow. Severe austerity

:30:03.:30:08.

programme continues? The austerity programme, as you put it, I would

:30:08.:30:11.

say a country living within its means, is an essential part of

:30:11.:30:14.

Britain demanded confident within the world and I think all of those

:30:14.:30:18.

who said over the last year that there was some room for Britain,

:30:18.:30:24.

that we could spend more Korek -- spent more, Barrymore, we must

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remember that our deficit is higher than that of Greece, Italy,

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Portugal. It means that alternative path, plan B, it would have been a

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total disaster for this country, Proust -- pushed interest rates up.

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Alex Salmond won a famous victory in May and he says that gives him a

:30:46.:30:52.

mandate to demand more Palmer's from your Government. What would

:30:52.:30:56.

convince you to devolve corporation tax to Edinburgh? I have had

:30:56.:30:59.

several discussions with Alex Salmond about corporation tax and

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other things he has asked for. First, we are passing through

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Parliament the biggest devolution of taxation since the Act of Union.

:31:08.:31:12.

Second, specifically on corporation tax, there are some very important

:31:12.:31:17.

questions about how much money this would forgo for the UK Exchequer,

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how much money the Scottish Government... How much is it?

:31:22.:31:26.

is precisely the discussion I want with Alex Salmond. We have asked

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him questions about his proposal and actually he has had very little

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idea of the answers. The impressions I have had from

:31:34.:31:37.

discussions with the Scottish Government is that they have not

:31:37.:31:40.

really thought through the detail of additional powers. Maybe now

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they will in the next few months. We have asked them some questions.

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It is time for them to come back with some answers but let's not

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forget, currently going through the UK parliament, promoted by the

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coalition Government, the United Kingdom, is the biggest devolution

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of taxation since the Act of Union and that status was a lot of what

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the Scottish people want to see. that his may be on corporation tax.

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Before you go through each one of these, I am not saying that any of

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these are necessarily things we will do. I am saying, let us hear

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the answers to the detailed questions and I have not had those

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answers yet. And frankly, I think the bigger issue at the moment is

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not this particular power or that particular power. I think the

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instability and the uncertainty that hangs over the Scottish

:32:32.:32:36.

economy because of Alex Salmond raising the prospect of

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independence without actually providing any detail, I think that

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answer is damaging investment in Scotland and they are major

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businesses around the world who have asked me, as Chancellor, in

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the last year, tell us what is going on in Scotland. We are

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worried about making an investment in that country. I have told them,

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go ahead with that investment, but I have to say, those questions are

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being asked and I think they are having an impact on Scottish jobs

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and prosperity. Which companies and how much investment? I do not want

:33:08.:33:12.

to go into specifics but some of the largest companies in the world.

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These are private conversations. I always answer, in best in Scotland.

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I think it is a great place to invest. But people have to be aware

:33:20.:33:24.

that the uncertainty about independence, about what sort of

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referendum Alex Salmond once, the question that he wants to posted

:33:29.:33:33.

Scottish people, all of those things, at a time when there is a

:33:33.:33:37.

lot of economic uncertainty, or adding economic uncertainty in

:33:37.:33:42.

Scotland. As a Conservative Cabinet minister, do you feel comfortable

:33:42.:33:48.

in Scotland, the country which has so often rejected your party?

:33:48.:33:52.

say, I think this is a fantastic part of the UK. One of the best

:33:52.:33:55.

places to do business. As Chancellor I am very interested in

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that. I actually came up here with my Liberal Democrat chief secretary

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earlier today. I have spent the afternoon with are fantastic new

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leader of the Scottish Conservatives, with Davidson, and I

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should say, my door is always open to her to come and put his case for

:34:12.:34:18.

Scotland. I am optimistic about Scotland's future. And the

:34:18.:34:23.

Conservatives' future? I am optimistic. We have a fantastic

:34:23.:34:28.

leader. She is a breath of fresh air just not for the Scottish

:34:28.:34:34.

Conservatives but for the Coral Scottish politics. She is going to

:34:34.:34:37.

be an important force for Scotland. Classes.

:34:37.:34:41.

You can see a longer version of that interview on our website at

:34:41.:34:46.

bbc.co.uk/scotlandnews. One interested observer is the First

:34:46.:34:50.

Minister. Just before we came on air, Alex Salmond gave us these

:34:50.:34:54.

reaction to the Chancellor's claims. The great companies of the world

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are investing in Scotland at the present moment. Companies like Amla

:35:00.:35:06.

arm -- Amazon, Mitsubishi. That is one of the reasons even in these

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difficult economic times when unemployment in Scotland is lower

:35:12.:35:17.

than in the rest of the UK. The instability in Scotland has nothing

:35:17.:35:22.

to do with an independence referendum, and everything to do

:35:22.:35:27.

with George Osborne and Tory economic policies. This is juvenile

:35:27.:35:32.

and it is not going to work. We have already given huge economic

:35:32.:35:36.

detail on corporation tax. We have said what we want to do. We want to

:35:36.:35:40.

control corporation tax so that we can attract corporation companies

:35:40.:35:43.

to Scotland, to get greater investment in Scotland. We have

:35:43.:35:47.

given them all this stuff. This is a Chancellor of wants to give as

:35:47.:35:50.

powers -- give powers to Northern Ireland but not Scotland.

:35:50.:35:56.

Should same-sex couples be able to get married? That is the question

:35:56.:35:59.

currently being posed by the Scottish Government. Ministers say

:35:59.:36:05.

they are open-minded but have hinted they would remind --

:36:05.:36:10.

consider reform. Some of those campaigning for the change say

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those -- it is not just about religion.

:36:16.:36:20.

We knew as soon as we met each other... Sandy and Kevin became

:36:20.:36:24.

civil partners last Christmas Eve but given a chance, they would

:36:24.:36:31.

rather have got married. We believe that a civil partnership is like a

:36:31.:36:35.

legal contract. You get the same rights and responsibilities as

:36:35.:36:38.

someone married but we feel it is a lesser status. While they would not

:36:38.:36:41.

have had a religious ceremony they think it should be an option for

:36:41.:36:46.

gay couples, but only if the judge involved agrees. I do not think

:36:46.:36:50.

anyone should force them to conduct these ceremonies. It is up to their

:36:50.:36:55.

religion and for them to decide and for people who are religious to

:36:55.:36:58.

take it up with their ministers. That is what the Scottish

:36:58.:37:02.

Government is considering. Up until now, any A8 man and a woman could

:37:03.:37:06.

get married in Scotland. Gay couples must enter a civil

:37:06.:37:09.

partnership instead. The new proposals would give same-sex

:37:09.:37:12.

couples equal marriage rites and the chance to have a religious

:37:12.:37:17.

ceremony. But despite reassurances from ministers, knows celebrant

:37:17.:37:24.

would be made to conduct a same-sex wedding, proposals have got strong

:37:24.:37:28.

opposition from some faith groups, particularly the Catholic Church

:37:28.:37:33.

who has warned of serious problems with relations with Government if

:37:33.:37:36.

proposals go ahead. Some smaller face which said they are in favour

:37:36.:37:39.

of gay marriage but how important is the religious aspect for gay

:37:39.:37:44.

couples? Let's be clear. This is not about millions of gay people

:37:44.:37:47.

smashing down doors of judges demanded to be married but there

:37:47.:37:53.

are some people in the church for whom it matters. They married

:37:53.:37:56.

within a church matters a lot. For some people it will be a civil

:37:56.:38:02.

marriage in a registry office. Again it is down to Joyce. Eric and

:38:02.:38:07.

Paolo got married in Brussels in 2006 per was surprised to find out

:38:07.:38:11.

it was not recognised in Scotland. The number of times I said, Yes, We

:38:11.:38:15.

Are married, and people say, so you have visible partnership, and I

:38:16.:38:21.

have to explain... They do not know... They are not meaning to

:38:21.:38:25.

make it less but it is less because it was deliberately designed to not

:38:25.:38:29.

be the same. They would not have married in church but feel

:38:29.:38:34.

religious groups should not be able to opt out of gay marriage. If you

:38:34.:38:38.

expect to have the right to conduct these legal ceremony then you

:38:39.:38:44.

should be expected to deliver it to anybody who wants it. I have said

:38:44.:38:48.

minutes times before and I will say again... Last week in Parliament,

:38:48.:38:51.

the Deputy First Minister reiterated the Government's

:38:51.:38:54.

position that it is tending towards change but still consulting on the

:38:54.:38:58.

issue. But should ministers stick to their guns? In all the history

:38:58.:39:02.

of these complex issues, you have to take a moral decision and stick

:39:02.:39:07.

by it and articulate it clearly. In suddenly, as Tony Blair did, a

:39:07.:39:12.

decade ago, during the Great Rock about Section 2 a, about

:39:12.:39:18.

homosexuality in schools, when he came north and said these are

:39:18.:39:26.

grinders fears, -- groundless fears. Let's just be reasonable about it.

:39:26.:39:31.

Alex Salmond has to do exactly the same thing. This is the 21st

:39:31.:39:35.

century. We do not accept prejudices against sexual

:39:35.:39:38.

minorities and I am afraid those subject to that will just have to

:39:38.:39:46.

put up with it. Legislation for same-sex marriage is not featured

:39:46.:39:50.

on this year's programme for Government. Consultation ends on

:39:50.:39:53.

December 9th. Joining in the studio is the SNP's

:39:53.:39:57.

John Mason, and the leader of the Scottish Liberal Democrats, Willie

:39:57.:40:07.
:40:07.:40:11.

What is your view it as to whether there should be legislation on

:40:11.:40:21.
:40:21.:40:22.

this? I think we should wait till the end of the consultation and I

:40:22.:40:30.

thing that is something all the main parties agree on. The do you

:40:30.:40:38.

personally support a change in the law? I think this is a time for the

:40:38.:40:46.

politicians to listen to what comes out of the consultation. But surely

:40:46.:40:54.

you must have an opinion on that? Do you support the question of

:40:54.:41:01.

whether same-sex couples should be able to get married? Most of the

:41:01.:41:10.

rates are already there, so we are arguing really about a word. What

:41:10.:41:18.

is your view? I want a society which is as bloat pluralistic as

:41:18.:41:25.

possible. But it should be the case that if Christians and other groups

:41:25.:41:34.

want to opt out, they should be allowed to. But what about your

:41:34.:41:42.

view. I am asking you as an elected Member of Parliament what your

:41:42.:41:52.
:41:52.:41:55.

opinion is. What I am not wanting his Christian views been forced

:41:55.:42:05.
:42:05.:42:08.

upon the rest of society. But I am relaxed about it. So you agree with

:42:09.:42:18.
:42:19.:42:22.

it? No, I am relaxed about it. disappointed with John's response.

:42:22.:42:29.

I think we could have a vigorous debate about this. The judge has

:42:29.:42:34.

make a reasonable 0.0, do they not, that if you look at all the legal

:42:34.:42:39.

rights and responsibilities, you have them in become legislation

:42:39.:42:46.

regarding civil partnerships. the belief that the faith groups

:42:46.:42:56.

would say that marriage should only been between a man and a women.

:42:56.:43:01.

There has never been an option that churches would be forced into

:43:01.:43:07.

performing same-sex marriages. But the Church do not own the word

:43:07.:43:12.

marriage. There are marriages that are conducted not within religious

:43:12.:43:17.

settings now. Society owns the word marriage. It is important that we

:43:17.:43:23.

have a society that supports all groups, it should be open to all

:43:23.:43:33.
:43:33.:43:36.

groups. So do you not think the Church should be listen to? A a

:43:36.:43:45.

absolutely not. My father was a Minister and the church. You talked

:43:45.:43:48.

about the Equality Act there was being passed at the time, if you

:43:48.:43:53.

think Holyrood does legislate on this it could be undermined by the

:43:53.:44:01.

Equality Act? There is a belief that they there could be a clash

:44:01.:44:08.

between report the Equality Act says and this could be problematic.

:44:08.:44:14.

At the moment, if the churches cannot do civil partnerships and

:44:14.:44:17.

equal marriage or gay marriage, it should be then that a couple could

:44:18.:44:22.

then come up to the charge and challenge that. There is that

:44:22.:44:26.

slight fear or that of the Scottish Parliament agrees to protect

:44:26.:44:31.

religious people that they could go to court and the courts could

:44:31.:44:41.
:44:41.:44:42.

decide against it. Should it courts decide against it? Are we going to

:44:42.:44:50.

say that the judge should be squeezed into a corner. But if that

:44:50.:44:54.

is the question of equality, surely the Church should have to abide by

:44:54.:45:04.
:45:04.:45:06.

that? Well, you have to take into account conscience. Why should not

:45:06.:45:15.

churches be forced to allow gay marriage? I am not seeking to

:45:15.:45:22.

impose my views on the church. society should be equal until you

:45:22.:45:30.

get to the steps of a church? think it should be a free society

:45:30.:45:35.

where people can do what they want. I do not want to impose upon the

:45:35.:45:43.

churches and I do not want them to impose upon me. How do you think

:45:44.:45:53.

the SNP colleagues will listen to the churches? I have got great

:45:53.:45:59.

respect for Nicola Sturgeon. say it does legislate against the

:45:59.:46:09.
:46:09.:46:10.

judges? There is probably a majority that support gay marriage,

:46:10.:46:16.

even did David Cameron says he does, but I think it is fair to say that

:46:16.:46:22.

not a majority of Conservative voters would do. To the judges have

:46:22.:46:29.

too much influence over Scottish politicians? I think the judges

:46:29.:46:33.

have to be careful about how they speak on behalf of the people who

:46:33.:46:43.
:46:43.:46:44.

follow that faith. I was very unfavourable over for the Minister

:46:44.:46:50.

in Paisley said about the judge having the block vote of 600,000

:46:50.:46:58.

Roman Catholics in the country. I think that was wrong. A church

:46:58.:47:06.

leaders not supposed to lead on religious issues? And surely it

:47:06.:47:08.

same-sex marriage is a moral issue and therefore they should be

:47:08.:47:18.
:47:18.:47:24.

speaking out about it? Yes, but this is different. I certainly

:47:24.:47:29.

think the Church cannot affect the government. They are a minority

:47:29.:47:33.

these days. They should put out their views and put them out

:47:33.:47:40.

strongly. If they are defeated and have bought, they are in the

:47:40.:47:50.
:47:50.:47:50.

minority. The the consultation ends in the next few weeks. Thank you

:47:50.:47:52.

both very much. Government ministers have become

:47:52.:47:55.

travelling salesmen in recent weeks. Alex Salmond was barely off the

:47:55.:47:58.

plane from a tour of the Gulf States when the Education Secretary,

:47:58.:48:01.

Mike Russell set off for India. His job was to lead the largest-ever

:48:01.:48:04.

university delegation to the country. So what is the pitch? Our

:48:04.:48:11.

business and economy editor Douglas Fraser has been investigating.

:48:11.:48:17.

India has get issues market as a potential for Scottish exports and

:48:17.:48:27.
:48:27.:48:28.

for learning. We have some of the best universities and the world and

:48:28.:48:34.

have a long tradition of higher education. Scholl and is known as

:48:34.:48:37.

the provider of education and I think it is the major competitor

:48:37.:48:41.

with other countries and the world. I think it is succeeding become

:48:41.:48:51.
:48:51.:48:55.

because of its reputation. numbers are staggering. There are

:48:55.:49:00.

over 200 million student studying. That is said to increase in the

:49:00.:49:05.

next 10 years. That means another 1,000 universities are needed. The

:49:05.:49:10.

only way that that gap between supply and demand to draw extra

:49:10.:49:16.

capacity can be filled is by working in partnerships with

:49:16.:49:23.

universities from overseas. Fees for a masters are Strathclyde

:49:23.:49:33.
:49:33.:49:34.

Business School run to �22,000. It is a big ask by Indian standards.

:49:34.:49:39.

It opens the doors by having international access and not simply

:49:39.:49:46.

been restricted to India. Coming over here, I met a lot of new

:49:46.:49:56.
:49:56.:49:59.

people who wear experienced. They were from Europe and America.

:49:59.:50:04.

is a mix of culture and experience that you get to study here. When

:50:04.:50:09.

you study people from different backgrounds and experiences. You

:50:09.:50:19.
:50:19.:50:19.

share your own experiences. people in industry can bring real

:50:19.:50:29.
:50:29.:50:31.

insight into the industry. Men the of the universe days have opened

:50:31.:50:38.

campuses abroad. Yesterday, on this visit to a cemetery, a partnership

:50:38.:50:45.

deal was signed between the university and its counterpart in

:50:45.:50:55.
:50:55.:50:55.

India. We have a great interest in the likes of art history. Calcutta

:50:55.:50:59.

is a city with some fantastic historical links to our country.

:50:59.:51:07.

That is one of the things we want to develop. If there is one thing

:51:07.:51:13.

which defines the industry, it is the crack down on visas which the

:51:13.:51:20.

British Government is threatening. After independence, things could be

:51:20.:51:26.

very different, but before then, we have to make sure we have the best

:51:26.:51:35.

possible reception for students. That is why some of the funds may

:51:35.:51:44.

not find themselves going to Scotland. Many of the student's

:51:44.:51:49.

want to do so or were seized, but many more are now staying at home.

:51:49.:51:57.

That is why we are now introducing a hour programmes in India. As the

:51:57.:52:02.

partnership shifts East, the partnership is now going to we.

:52:02.:52:06.

After long, is this where astute Scottish students will want to

:52:06.:52:09.

study? Joining us in Edinburgh is the

:52:09.:52:11.

Guardian's Scotland correspondent Severin Carrell and with me in

:52:11.:52:13.

Glasgow, the chief reporter for The Herald, Lucy Adams.

:52:13.:52:23.
:52:23.:52:29.

On that issue of selling markets to India, how impressive in brand his

:52:29.:52:39.
:52:39.:52:40.

Scottish education? There is this very strong Scottish tradition of

:52:40.:52:44.

engagement, particularly through the Empire and the Indian

:52:44.:52:49.

government. I think, in many ways it is a very attractive one,

:52:49.:52:54.

especially in the likes of Engineering. I suspect it is quite

:52:54.:52:59.

the profoundly strong brand and there is also the strong Scottish

:52:59.:53:05.

intellectual tradition. The is it possible for universities in

:53:05.:53:12.

Scotland to sell the brand to other countries? Is it not just

:53:12.:53:18.

distracting. Should they not just be focusing on educating students

:53:18.:53:28.
:53:28.:53:31.

here? For the most part, yes. But it is clearly that India is the

:53:31.:53:37.

very interesting place for us to be connected with. Scotland can be

:53:37.:53:42.

criticised for being too inward- looking and to look out towards the

:53:42.:53:46.

other countries such as Brazil, China and India, this is perfect

:53:46.:53:55.

timing. They are all very big growing economies. We have big

:53:55.:53:58.

businesses telling the Chancellor that they are worried about the

:53:58.:54:02.

possibility of Scottish independence. What are the politics

:54:02.:54:10.

involved in this? There is undoubtedly going to be some

:54:10.:54:14.

anxiety and uncertainty about the medium to long-term outlook,

:54:14.:54:20.

because of Scotland has become independent, the independence of a

:54:20.:54:24.

lot of the subsidies and mechanisms that are part of the overall

:54:24.:54:30.

picture in the UK, will undoubtedly change. It is a difficult question

:54:30.:54:35.

for the UK Government to pick. You ask the quite credible question to

:54:35.:54:41.

the Chancellor, name the companies involved. Name companies which have

:54:41.:54:49.

refused to become involved in Scotland. Alex Salmond can then

:54:49.:54:54.

tripped off the trunk a list of other companies that are involved.

:54:54.:55:02.

There is something that Alex Salmond has to recognise here. You

:55:02.:55:06.

have the European crisis and the European debt it is all going to be

:55:06.:55:09.

playing on people's minds. There are a lot of confidence issues he

:55:09.:55:18.

has to wrestle with. People think that this mantra of complete

:55:19.:55:23.

optimism that Scotland is always going to be open for business, is

:55:23.:55:28.

simply not true. It is not just a question of what the UK Government

:55:28.:55:33.

is doing with rich austerity programme, there are much bigger

:55:33.:55:37.

things at play. There is undoubtedly going to be and it

:55:37.:55:45.

issue for investors. There is also going to be uncertainty about what

:55:45.:55:51.

will happen in the run-up to an independence referendum. How much

:55:51.:56:01.

will these issues become part of the economic concerns? They think

:56:01.:56:07.

they will be absolutely crucial. I think most people vote on economic

:56:07.:56:11.

issues. There are so many contradictions coming from

:56:11.:56:14.

politicians. You have the Conservatives talking about the

:56:14.:56:22.

need for confidence, they talk about how the the Eurozone is

:56:22.:56:29.

undermining confidence. Cameron yesterday was talking about that we

:56:29.:56:34.

should prepare for the worst. That is not something which fills people

:56:34.:56:39.

full of confidence. So it will be a critical question and the problem

:56:39.:56:43.

at the minute as there is so much contradiction and uncertainty and,

:56:43.:56:49.

if anything, the Eurozone is the huge cloud over everything. That is

:56:49.:56:53.

creating far more uncertainty than anything to do with Scottish

:56:53.:56:58.

independence. The Labour leader was saying yesterday that as it stands,

:56:58.:57:03.

the UK Government is using that as the clock to say this is the

:57:03.:57:07.

problem, this is why we're not dealing with domestic issues and

:57:07.:57:14.

the economy. Do you think most people realise the impact that the

:57:14.:57:20.

Eurozone crisis could have on them personally? We think that is one of

:57:20.:57:26.

the most frustrating aspects of it. It is very difficult to report,

:57:26.:57:31.

because it is so complicated. The language is the language of

:57:31.:57:36.

technocrats and economists. For people on the street will

:57:36.:57:42.

understand it is virtually impossible. The Guardian was saying

:57:42.:57:47.

that people's pensions will have been down 10 %. These dated a

:57:47.:57:52.

tangible impact of what people want to know about. The arguments

:57:52.:57:56.

between technocrats and politicians and the top of trillions of debt,

:57:56.:58:04.

to the average person and the street, it is almost meaningless.

:58:04.:58:07.

Is it almost a danger of democracy what has happened in the last few

:58:08.:58:17.
:58:18.:58:18.

weeks? It is a point. The dangers to democracy maybe even more so if

:58:18.:58:22.

the Eurozone collapses. There are obviously key questions which will

:58:22.:58:29.

have to be answered in Europe. They have to build up Democratic

:58:29.:58:35.

confidence. It is one of the ironies that the are now seeing the

:58:35.:58:42.

consequences of the Eurozone crisis is that they're going to have to in

:58:42.:58:47.

increase the interdependence of all the countries. That is all from The

:58:47.:58:51.

Politics Show this week. We will be back at the usual time of 12.30pm

:58:51.:58:54.

Political magazine presented by Jon Sopel and Isabel Fraser.


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