26/06/2011 The Politics Show South


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Coming up here in the South: is the rising cost of policing pop


Apology for the loss of subtitles for 2511 seconds


Hello and welcome to the part of the show especially for us here in


the South. My name's Peter Henley. Today we've got high art and pop


art. In the weekend of Glastonbury we're looking at the cost of


policing pop festivals. And high art? There are hundreds of


thousands of paintings owned by public bodies like councils, the


police and fire services, and most of them are never put on display.


Should we be bringing them out of the storerooms, or maybe even


selling them to get some money in. It's an idea which we'll debate


shortly. But first:


This week sees the end of the public consultation into the future


of children's heart surgery units. The proposals are for fewer bigger


units, which could mean units like the one in Southampton closing down.


This week campaigners took a petition to Downing Street, and MPs


debated the issue on Thursday. But what difference will all this


campaigning make? With me in the studio, Southampton Labour MP John


Denham and campaigner Sam Prior who went up to Downing Street.


Sam, you spent a lot of time and effort collecting petitions. There


was the debate in the House and do you feel it was all worthwhile and


you are being listened to? I think so. We had to raise the profile of


the review to make sure that everybody understood what the


proposals were. Fundamentally, the document that people are responding


to is flawed and the data is inaccurate. Drawing up a petition


is about the force of public opinion but should the whole thing


stop now and they should start again? I do not agree that it


should stop. It has been a decade since they have been trying to put


through changes to cardiac surgery for children but there are a lot of


issues in the way the process is being run at the moment in that it


is just about children and it has not taken into consideration the


continuation into care for adults. They all have the same surgeon. You


still need the same surgeon as you going to the adult service because


it is still the same kind of surgery that is being performed.


Issues like that have not been addressed. Southampton is only one


option and we need to make sure that it is a surgical centre for


the future. John Denham, you were also helping with the campaign.


There is a picture of you here with other MPs from our region on the


steps of Number Ten. For there are problems with the process and that


is something BNP should be pulling out. There are problems with the


process and you have to tell ministers to have a close look at


what is being done in their name. You have to be certain you are


confident about it. To me as a parent, I do not care where it is


as long as it is the best that you can get. Southampton is one of the


best centres in the country and is only included as one of the four


options. That does not seem right. If you take the whole work out of


Southampton, then you do not have enough beds for the rest of the


children's intensive care work that we do at the moment so you may use


that as well. These issues have not yet been brought out of the


consultation document. Now Andrew Lansley and the other ministers


know they cannot just sign this off as a technical exercises and they


have to be confident that it works. And listen to public opinion! You


have groups of MPs and parents making passionate arguments for


their own unit to have continued. That is not rational, is it? There


is a bit of that but they accepted the basic idea that if there are


fewer larger centres then more children would live and fewer


children would die. No one is questioning that process but if


there had been no protest and No campaigns, I think ministers might


not have engage themselves in it and signed it over to the experts.


Now we know what ever comes out will be unpopular somewhere but I


think Sam and her campaign and the people who have signed it and


others in other parts of the country have said to ministers that


they have to be sure that they have got it right. 250,000 people signed


here and 500,000 people signed in Leeds, did they have more right to


keep their heart unit? They came 10th in the review but they do have


more people signing petitions and they paid people to go out and


collect names on that petitions. There was an advert for those


petitions so at the end of the day... You did not do that? No, it


has all been done through the hard work by our families and our


friends and we have organised events at various big venues and it


is the general public that, when you tell them that it is the second


biggest cardiac unit for children the country, then it makes sense to


keep it. Should this kind of thing be done by a group of experts who


were looking for safe and sustainable Hart's services?


word in the expert group, what has been published, does not capture


many of the really important knock on issues. If you talk to the


doctors in Southampton, as I have been doing, there are all sorts of


issues that have not been covered. It would be awful if ministers made


a decision based on the number of petition signatures but if they had


not been this general campaigning done well on a volunteer resources


here in Southampton, I think a lot of the issues that have now come


out -- such as that the Isle of Wight has been completely left out.


What happens is we all got together and people looked at their own bit


of it and wondered if they had been taken into account. They had done


so they have now got to admit that a whole chunk of patients had not


been taken into account. All of this campaigning, you do not take a


decision on the basis of who shouts loudest but it will mean that


ministers understand that there is a lot of concern about the process


and they have got to be absolutely confident that they have got it


right. If they do and they decide that what matters is how good the


services, then Southampton should come through OK. Sorry, that is all


of our time. Thank you very much. It's that time of year when music


festivals are popping up in muddy fields all over the place.


Glastonbury's on this weekend of course. But for people trying to


get to the JLS concert just outside Winchester last weekend, the


experience became a bit of a nightmare. A nightmare which raised


questions about just how these big public events get organised.


Earlier in the week I caught up with local MP Steve Brine.


concert in Winchester on Friday was an absolute fiasco. It was a


dangerous farce. I open a fete at lunch time and people were asking


me if I had heard what had happened. I mentioned, Twitter and asked for


people to tell me their stories. I have got reports of young girls


jumping over the central reservation and running down the


motorway in pouring rain and small children pushing cars out of March


at one A M. It was a potentially dangerous farce. It is not good


enough. The organisers knew how much they had sold and they knew


where the car park spaces were and it cannot be a surprise that people


turned up. It is their responsibility to ensure that


people were dealt with efficiently and safely and they did not do that.


People are saying they want their money back and they are absolutely


right. Have the responsibility -- have the authorities got a


responsibility in this? I think absolutely everybody has a portion


of the blame here. When it comes to signing of the plan, and there was


a plan. I spoke to the police the morning of the Festival about


something else and this came up and they had a plan and they were


relatively happy with it but we need to find out whether the plan


was implemented or whether the plan was not good enough in the first


place. We need to get around the table and have a debrief as soon as


possible. We need to know where things have gone wrong and find out


whether blame lines so that people can get their money back. Is there


an issue here because it costs a lot for the organisers to have the


security and get the approval probably done and maybe it is not


being done properly. authorities want consistency. The


Isle of Wight is a good example. It is an established festival. The


organisers know the police and the council and authorities. Within


weeks of the festival happening each year, they are talking about


the next year. Michael Eavis at Glastonbury has made an art form of


it. Organisers want this consistency. They are concerned


that organisers of festivals come and go and they cannot build a


relationship. Relationships are built on trust when it comes to


these things and that is one of the things that is going wrong at the


moment. My advice to landowners would be to build long-term


relationships with organisers and that will deal with a lot of the


problems that is coming up. That was the JLS concert.


The bigger the event, the bigger the bill for organising it. And as


Alex Forsyth reports, the more the Old Bill charges for policing it.


This report contains some strobe lighting.


It has become as Britain's and Woodstock. In 1970 more than


500,000 music-lovers descended on the Isle of Wight to see the


world's biggest band. The best of all got out of control. It is home


for who knows how many hippies, beatniks and drop out. The police


are noticeable by their absence. Their theory is that it would be


impossible to control over 100,000 youngsters so even the presence of


the peaks in amongst this mass of humanity might do more harm than


good. When the Isle of Wight festival was revived it firmly


fixed its place on the festival calendar. This year thousands came


to Newport for three days of bands, blues and wellies. The organiser


does not manned -- the organiser does not mind paying the price to


keep the event secured. We take into account the fact that we have


to pay for the police force as part of the ticket price because we


believe the audience needs to be looked after and protected and we


have to provide extra protection for that. It costs hundreds of


thousands of pounds but it is worth having because if, pray God, you


had a big problem, you want people there to be capable of dealing with


it. I think the police force are a necessary evil, if you see what I


mean. I think you need them to run an event properly. It is not the


1970s where who cares and what happens happens and people can


smash down the walls. An audience needs to be protected from


themselves. Although big festivals may be all -- and may be able to


afford the bill, the smaller events they can be a struggle. This


marketplace was due to be a venue for the first free rock concert in


Ringwood. It looked like policing the event would be expensive.


if it was just 10,000, it was way over what we could sensibly afford.


It could have entered into 20,000 or even more, depending on what


happened in the evening. In the end, organisers cancelled. It is a great


shame. The bans were really enthusiastic and we were doing


auditions and the local people and businesses were behind the event.


It was a way to get Ringwood going and we were all disappointed that


they could not do that. The town council wanted to put on the


concert as well and we were doing everything we could possibly do. We


were trying to work with the police but eventually the money was just


far too much for us. Nastier a dance festival was due to be held


here in Winchester. Organisers had to cancel it and they say a hefty


police bill was part of the reason. The police to waive fees for


community or charity events but they say it is only fair that they


recoup the full costs of any commercial concert or festival.


is critical we have the right level of police resources and the right


skills. They go hand in hand with the right security and safety plan


at the events. Whether it is a large event like the Isle of Wight


festival or a small event like the dance festival, it is crucial that


any event that attracts large numbers of people, public safety


must come first. We cannot have the tax payers of the Isle of Wight


subsidising commercial and profit- making ventures. The Summer of Love


has long since passed but festivals are still going strong and they


still need policing. The question is who should fit the bill? --


fought the bill? Now, it's been estimated that there


are around 200,000 paintings in public collections all over the


country. It might be local authorities, fire services, the


police, you name it. But although they're all owned by us, the public,


about 80% of them never actually get seen by us, the public. In a


documentary later tonight on BBC One, Joe Crowley has been


unearthing some of those hidden treasures, like one he found in the


council offices in Wareham. It just sits here in a stairwell


and half the time when people come and go they probably do not notice


it. When I came in, guy asked me what I was here for and I said the


painting and he said, what painting? It makes you wonder how


many paintings like this are hidden in land and buildings around the


country. He you cannot get in and it is behind locked doors and


nobody quite knows how what is here and where it came from and at some


point it was donated. Ross, putting things on public


display is not as straightforward as people think because it is


valuable and you have to rotate it. Yes, we like to refresh our


displays so that people do not come in and think they have seen it all


before and there is nothing new. We like to change things around and


get as many of our paintings out as we can. Do you think more could be


done? Always. We always want more buildings and bigger galleries to


show more and more staff to make it available. I wonder whether that is


happening at the moment, I suspect not. It is difficult times. It is,


we are facing budget restrictions and that will have an impact on


staff. Peter, you have a campaign in Hampshire to get more stuff out.


They were buying collections just to decorate the offices. Yes,


Hampshire requires a substantial number of works of art but they are


not seen by the public who pay for them. I think the principle is


simple, when it is public art, owned by the public and paid for by


the public, they and a right to see them. They were bought in the 1980s


just took decorate offices, they could have got some wallpaper!


is completely wrong. I can wander round the Hampshire County Council


headquarters and find a lot of art hidden away where the public never


sees it. Hardly anyone in the offices sees it. That is wrong. The


attitude is wrong -- the attitude is changing and Hampshire are


saying that they will display more of the art but they have not said


where and when. In my view, the public should have far greater


access. It is a simple principle, the public omit and the public


should see it. Money is tight, wind will sell some of it? That is an


argument but if you sold it... Would you do that was mad know, if


you sold it then it would probably go into private collection of the


public would never see it. I would rather these works of art actually


seen and the public can enjoy them. There are some acclaimed art of


working Gosport by Martin Snape and you can view those works of art


online but you can hardly ever see them in the area and they used to


give away works of art to retiring town clerks. Thankfully, that


attitude has changed but there are three -- there are a few one


display at the town hall but they are mostly in areas where the


public does not have access. I am sure the public would love to see


them. Why is it not happening? think in some cases it is very


difficult to get things out and have the space to display them. We


have got an exhibition on at the moment which is a longer term


exhibition, devoted to works illustrated in the Public Catalogue


Foundation catalogue. It is clearly titled, discover the paintings you


own. Portsmouth is committed to ensuring that art remains in the


public domain, available to the people of the city. Portsmouth have


never bought the works of art for offices, they have been bought for


the museum's collection. We believe that people do want to see things


and we will let them if they see an appointment to see the things in


the store. If they make an appointment, we will try our best


to make sure they are available. What about selling a few things?


Would you resist that? It is very difficult. I firmly believe that if


the works have been a quiet, whether purchased or given by


people, to enrich the city's collections, they should stay in


the public domain. It might be that they go to a more appropriate


museum, there is always that option if it is not relevant to our


collection but I firmly believe that if you sell something, you


take it out of that public domain and once it is gone, it is gone.


Thank you for coming in and talking about it. A lot of these are


available to be seen on line as a result of the scheme so if this has


got you fired up to find out about hidden paintings in your website


there is a -- hidden paintings in your area, there is a website you


can look at. That is about it for our part of the show. We will be


off and out next week because of the Wimbledon men's final. We will


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