13/11/2011 The Politics Show South

In the South: It's port wars as Southampton and

Apology for the loss of subtitles for 1997 seconds

This is it? Yes, these are some of the mementoes from that particular

trip. Say that is from San Francisco? Entering the Golden Gate

Bridge, yes. It is an immense problem and it deters people from

going on some of these cruises. More people from the North would be

willing to come to Liverpool than go to Southampton's. This is the

cruise terminal and we are walking along the Langley stage...

The modest terminal was opened in 2007, for many visitors their first

glimpse of Liverpool. It has attracted big ships. At the moment,

whilst the visitors that do come spend a lot of money while they are

here, they are only here for one day, a so what does multiply the

economic impact if we can do that. It would also create more jobs

because there would be a lot of servicing of the additional

passengers coming through the cruise terminal if we got

turnaround says to us -- status. letter has emerged from the

European Commission saying it would want some of its original

investment back. They would have a reasonable case that, if there was

a partial refund to the UK authorities, they should be a

parallel partial refund to the community so I have no idea how it

will come out or what percentage that repayment might be, but they

do seem to have a reasonable That is still being decided but if

Liverpool wins, many people here would feel that the ships have

returned home. Well, that's the view from Liverpool's perspective.

But Newcastle and Southampton have reacted as angrily as a cruise

passenger being told the kitchen's closing.

There are lorryloads of fresh food and drink, coach firms and taxes,

wages are earned every time a cruise ship docks in Southampton.

It is the lifeblood of the economy. New businesses have arrived.

Americans like to travel back and forwards on the ships so they bring

that posh frocks and tuxedoes but when they get to the UK they might

not need them so we send them back. The idea that Liverpool could take

the Cruise Line work angers Colin. If they're going into a growing

market, why do they need subsidy to enter it? We have set a new

business up. We have not taken subsidies. We will take it out of

our profits. Southampton port owners have shelved plans for a 5th

terminal but they are worried that what they see as unfair competition

from Liverpool City Council could hit them hard. The issue is not

complicated. It is an issue of whether it is privately funded or

state funded. Ports in general, are owned by private companies. We

should be investing in crews terminals. That is what we do. We

do not get grant aid to do that. That should be the case in

Liverpool as well. They are Southampton Chamber of Commerce

believes Liverpool should be able to stand on its own. They believe

the Liverpool port is wealthy enough to pick up the tab without

help from the city council. Why do you think they are not doing it?

Would you pay for it if you thought you did not have to? Are they have

got a business to run. It is a very successful business. If they

believe that Liverpool could give them a cruise terminal worth

millions of pounds for nothing, I cannot see many businesses turning

that down. The Queen Mary 2 has been in port for just a few I was.

Passengers are arriving for the trip to New York. How would you

feel about going from Liverpool rather than Southampton? No, I

prefer Southampton. It is the home of cruising, the Isle of Wight, the

Solent, all the yachts. It has always been here. A bit like

afternoon tea, it is part of the experience for us. Liverpool can do

that to! I know. I have never really considered it to be honest.

I do not know why any of us understand -- I do not think any of

us understand why the Government is considering this. It was only a few

weeks after the Coalition were elected that Liverpool Reece

admitted their application. I cannot believe that a Conservative

lead administration would even contemplate doing this. It was a

Labour government in 2007 that initially rejected the waving of

the subsidy. Joining me now here in Southampton

is the leader of the City Council, Royston Smith, and up in Liverpool

the leader of the city council there, Joe Anderson. You are not

against them running cruises? think help the competition is a

good thing. A lot of people in Southampton feel it is unfair

competition. Yes, we have had public subsidy from the last Labour

government. It was �8.5 million. We have negotiated with this

government to pay back public support -- sub -- subsidy back.

With depreciation we have agreed to pay �5.3 million back. If you buy a

new car you do not expected to retain its value. We have agreed a

fair price. That is what we intend to pay back. If we pay any more

back, all it does is go to the Exchequer and it punishes Liverpool

city ratepayers which is where the money would come from. That is not

fair for Southampton to ask us to do it. It is a curious thing to say

you have an agreement from the Government. As somebody said you

can go up ahead with cruises? have agreed at her -- we have

agreed a price. It is going out to consultation. Who has agreed the

price would you? The central government. The mandarins in

Whitehall have spoken to us and calculated how we repay the money

back in terms of the amount we pay back. That is what we have done and

we think it is a fair price. It is only �3.5 million short of the full

asking price but we think it is there. Liverpool has a crews

facility here. We are not talking about building a brand new one. We

have got one and we used to have a 5% of the cruise liner trade.

Because we have an antiquated system with the lock system, we

think it is a restraint. We want to resolve the hit state aid issue and

it is only Southampton that is dissatisfied with it. It is other

ports as well. Southampton will be hard hit. We must acknowledge it is

not just Southampton that is not happy about this there are other

ports around the country. The port alliance was headed by Southampton

and myself but it was not just Southampton. Why do you want them

to pay more money? The depreciation point is and reasonable one. A want

them to pay it all back because of a private operator will make a

profit from this money. Public money will be used to allow a

private operator to make money. Do not forget that even if Liverpool

pay this money back in its entirety or partially, they will be paying

it back from public money. Public money will be used to compete with

a private-sector company and that is where we disagree. It is an

unfair playing field. Let me deal with those points. Royston is not

telling the truth here. The issue is that from our point of view, we

have had, like Southampton, a lot of support from government in terms

of grants. Southampton has had a lot of money in terms of the road

and traffic infrastructure... is not the same as the ports!

course it is the port. If you enhance the availability of the

road and improve the road system to -- support the port then that his

state aid. Let us go with the issue where he claims that a private

company will make money out of this. It is run by Liverpool City Council

and we would run it. It would not be any private company. I have

offered to meet Royston and come down and discuss the issue. It

benefits nobody. It does not benefit Southampton or Liverpool if

we have to pay money back to the Exchequer. Let us deal with the

European issue. He wants us to pay all the money back and I find that

totally unfair because what he expects me to do his knock on the

European Commissioners door and ask them to take the money off me. They

have not approached me or the council and asked us to pay their

money back. I am quite sure that other Portswood be in a similar

position. I would go so far as to say that I think it is obscene that

Southampton are demanding that we pay the money back when nobody has

asked for it. It is obscene that you asking for money! I am

disappointed that he has said that what I am saying is not true. I am

not a liar. You cannot pick things in isolation. We have not had huge

investment in our roads. We have recently secured a regional growth

fund the bid and that is not for the port, that is for Southampton

and the water run -- waterfront and it is for redevelopment and

tackling a specific congestion problem. There are containers that

do not need to go on the road and that neutralises any of the subsidy

that Joe talks about. We simply do not have one. This is not fair.

we you go to lawyers? We may still seek a judicial review. If it goes

against you will you continue to aim for cruise liners? Yes we will

fight it all the way. If we pay all the money back, up Royston would

have no objection and especially if the European Union do not want the

money. If he is asking us to find another �3.5 million then he would

have no objection? You are trying to put words in my mouth. If you

pay it all back I will have no objections at all. If the European

Union do not ask you for the money, then that is for them. The only way

for this to be there would be if you pay it all back. Thank you very

much. As we mark Remembrance Sunday, this

year is rather a special one for the town of Carterton in

Oxfordshire. It recently became the new route for military

repatriations and as Emma Vardy reports, many people have begun

turning out to pay tribute. For four years the bodies of

military personnel passed through the Wiltshire town of Royal Wootton

Bassett. Hundreds of people began to line the streets to honour

fallen soliders and these scenes of silent tribute became famous around

the world. Now RAF Brize Norton in West Oxfordshire has taken on these

duties. This week the local town of Carterton hosted its fourth

repatriation and here too people have been turning out to pay their

respects. We decided we had to go. We are glad we did go. We hope we

do not have to go to aid the poor. I went up for two of them. I have

been brought up with the army life and the RAF life and to me it is it

nature to go up there. It was something out of the ordinary and

you would not want to be the family stood there. It is gut-wrenching

singing that. It sends shivers every time. When you speak to

people in Carterton you get a sense of how seriously the community has

embraced its responsibilities. This memorial garden was built by the

local council alongside the repatriation route and it is here

that the family's stand to watch the cortege passed by. We have

never tried to be the equal of Wootton Bassett. They did it our

way and we have done it the Oxfordshire Way. It is a community

event and it is working well. Oxfordshire has also pledged its

support for the military in the form of a new government --

covenants and by the county council. The agreement aims to encourage

local charities and businesses to offer support to service personnel

and their families. The government is offering financial grants to

encourage other authorities to do the same.

Tom Hedges is president of the Royal British Legion in Ramsden,

and says now the repatriation route has moved to nearby Carterton he's

proud to see the community turning out to mark each one, and hopes the

tributes will continue. I do not see why it shouldn't. It is quite

wonderful. As we mark Remembrance Day, for Tom

the modern repatriations are also a reminder of how much things have

changed since the First and Second World Wars. It is vastly different.

We did not have television. We had the radio. You can see things

happening there. You actually see the terrible conflict. It is

brought in to your homes. Homecomings like this may become a

familiar sight for the people of Carterton. And many say they'll

keep up the tradition, gathering to acknowledge each life lost. It is

something we can all do as a community without there being

really no reason behind it. Hopefully it will stay exactly the

same as it has been, if not more successful. There is not many of us

oldies left that were in the war. There are not many of us. It is all

the sons and daughters and their grandson's and their granddaughters

that a really becoming involved. Last week the Government announced

it was halving the feeding tariff made -- paid to those who had

installed solar panels. It is the subsidy for feeding electricity

into the national grid. The government said the original price

was unsustainable and the industry says it will cost jobs. People who

have signed up for this tariff will continue to get it for 25 years so

it is a generous scheme and very successful, just what you wanted.

It has been very successful. It always was the idea that the amount

provided for under writing would go down over the years and there is a

review coming up next year. Do you think this is damaging? It is very

damaging because the Government has stated that the price for the

underwriting is going to be half that within six weeks time and that

is too short a period for anybody who has got their scheme under way

at the moment to get it completed an end in time. There are

businesses who have got solar panels on the break from Tyne and

they will not get them in in time so the orders may be cancelled.

was talking to one of those companies yesterday. They have a

large number of solar panels on the sea as we speak and they will be

completely redundant and there will be a large amount of job losses in

the industry and a number of people who will simply not be able to get

their schemes finished. There is indeed a further reduction for

community schemes over and above. Some of the schemes in places like

Southampton will not be able to happen. It really is and are

necessary catastrophe, I think. It is something that even now could be

rectified. The anger is growing. Do you think they will have to back

down? The least they would have to do is make sure there is sufficient

time to get their schemes under way. They have got to review the whole

way of doing this in the future because if we keep having these

policy lurches, it will create complete uncertainty and mistrust

for the future. No one will ever believe what is said about

renewable energy schemes and that could be quite disastrous. Thank