16/10/2011 The Politics Show Wales


Jon Sopel and Aled ap Dafydd with analysis of the political scene shaping Wales.

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Because the new feel-good factor mean we want more powers devolved


Apology for the loss of subtitles for 1493 seconds


to Wales? We will discuss it with Me up a Welsh view of the eurozone


crisis and what new powers for the bus government might have as a


result of the Silk Commission. But we have to start with yesterday's


event in the Rugby World Cup. After the flight was put up over Number


Ten Downing Street in London, and with thousands watching it in the


Millennium Stadium in Cardiff, it was a game of ups and downs but


sadly the results going fronts's whereby one point. After the match,


in a still noisy Millennium Stadium, the First Minister Carwyn Jones


gave our reporter his reaction to the game. The game was ruined


really by what I thought was a harsh sending off for Sam Warburton.


From our point of view, we have got to be proud of our players, they


came close to winning against typical days and I think their best


days are ahead of them. Disappointing but light spilled


from this. A your message to the boys who fought bravely? Your


nation is behind you, very proud of what to have done, it will be


difficult to lift your spirits for next Saturday but we will be behind


you again for a start and Cardiff council have just told us they are


in discussions with the Welsh Rugby Union and was government about a


possibility of a homecoming event. I was government spokesperson say


they are currently considering the most appropriate way to recognise


the great achievements -- a government spokesperson. Wales will


play Australia in the third-place play-off.


Hundreds of families in Wales who might have been wrongly charged


care home fees for their elderly relatives have been told they could


be paid back in three years if they are refunded. There are many had


been waiting for several years and are angry that there is a backlog


in claims still not cleared. Our reporter has been to meet one


family affected in the Rhondda. was starting to get frail on her


legs. She was starting to fall about and usually when she fell,


she banged her head. She had quite a few nasty falls at home. One have


had children decided she needed professional help around the clock


and did not realise how expensive it would be. Beryl's sons are


completely happy with each care she received here are believed it


should have been free. In total, they spent more than �40,000 on


costs. Money they had been trying to claim back since 2006. If Beryl


had received an assessment by the NHS, her family's lawyer is


confident she would have been recommended for ongoing health care.


That means her place in the home would have been paid for by the


health service. Because this assessment never happened, the


local authority means tested her instead and decided that her family


had to play. Quite a big surprise because it meant that we had to


sell my mother's house to cover the cost. The weights are among


hundreds of families waiting to find out if they are entitled to


have their money back. We have families to have been waiting a


number of years and families that are very upset because nobody told


them about the possibility that their relative may have been


eligible for health care. Family who believe they have wrongly paid


fees can challenge that decision. However, if the costs date back to


before April 2003, then the claims should have been made by the end of


2009. One authority, Powys Health Board is now responsible for


looking into those historical claims for the whole of Wales.


Alongside more recent claims, there is a backlog of around 2000 cases.


It says it could take a further three years to get through that.


The longer these cases take, the more interest is going to have to


be paid and it is detrimental to the public purse. I think it is


also something that is very important. This is not compensation,


this is money that should have never have been paid in the first


place. It is been said that the world government has not acted


quickly enough. They have failed to take account of the situation which


many families find themselves in and they have failed to put in


place systems to deal quickly with those claims which are fairly


straightforward and also to deal with the more complex cases in good


time. I think the Minister needs to get a grip and she needs to sort


this out quickly and much more quickly than the three years we are


told it will take. The Health Minister turned down our


request for an interview put in a statement, the Welsh Government


said it recognises the concerns that have been raised. It has Powys


Health Board is unsure of providing an equitable review of cases. It


said that cases are being dealt with in order of when the


application was made and says some payments have already been


processed. But for the family and many like them, the uncertainty


continues. It is frustrating. We keep on hoping we will have a


cheque for Christmas but we don't know which Christmas!


Wales might be shivering as it is buffeted by the chill of economic


winds but events 1,500 miles away could make the financial


temperature here really plunge. The Politics Show has been to Brussels


to take the view of Welsh MEPs efforts to stave off the debt


crisis in Greece and the possible consequences here at home if the


crisis spreads. The �200 billion rescue package for


Europe's banks... If men of Europe's biggest banks do not have


the reserves of capital to of salt losses.


He is not the politicians who will decide this, but the people on the


streets. Tall of defaults, a Euro meltdown,


bail-out funds running into trillions of euro possibly. It


might seem some distance away from the economic problems Wales is


currently facing but Wales is highly dependent on trade with


eurozone countries. The nation's four MEPs occupy a pretty good


vantage to justify a natural situation on the Continent. Debt-


laden Greece which has seen so much resistance to austerity programmes


is the immediate priority to eurozone leaders. They fear the


market could be spooked if I fail to shore up the Greek economy.


Conservative MEP case when then is a former investment banker. Greece


is only 2.5% of the euro GDP so the entire debt is very small compared


to the entire eurozone. We need to keep things in proportion. The


reality is, the market to pay for the bonds and by those in the


marketplace, those investors are really worried that if they cannot


fix Greece, how well they fix the big economies of Italy and Spain if


they run into difficulties? fear is that if the confidence in


Europe's financial markets is sapped, economies such as Wales are


vulnerable. It is a great concern because if problems in the eurozone


have an impact on Wales, Welsh businesses rely on 60% of trade


with Europe so if the eurozone has problems, then the Welsh economy


will do as well. The Welsh economy is dependent on the rest of Europe


and we have got a situation now in Wales where we have got 22%


unemployment amongst young people. If the situation spirals out of


control, then there will be a lot more unemployment and that of


course is going to impact. It is critical that the leaders do get


this right in the eurozone. others come at it is time to admit


that the single currency is a disaster and to stop spending


risking and borrowing more to save it. You is not the politicians to


decide this, but the people on the streets and the markets. They are


throwing money at it. Almost like saying to an alcoholic, we can fix


this by giving you more alcohol. This will not work and it is


bonkers to think that it will. I think it will fail big time. For


people in the UK, they will be effective. An alternative is for


eurozone leaders to allow Greece to default on much of its debts in an


orderly manner. European banks would then need cash injections to


prevent banking system seizing up as investors in Greece might lose


as much as four fifths of their investment. It will go up from the


20% to, I suspect, 60 or 80% in the future. But get Greece to a


sustainable level of debt but that means the banks to own that debt


will take heavy losses so we need to capitalise the banks up again to


make sure that an orderly deport of Greece does not have a catastrophic


effect which would be far worse than the Lehman Brothers collapse


of 2008. They have realised they need to deal with the Greek


situation, put in place a stability mechanism of such a large extent


that they can deal with any issues that might arise in the future.


They also realise that we need greater economic governments across


Europe to make sure this does not happen again. What we are looking


at the moment our proposals on growth because a lack of growth in


the eurozone is another crisis we are facing. The eurozone is not


known for decisive nest -- the EU is not known for decisiveness. The


outcome could be very bleak. Should the Welsh Government take


more responsibility for raising the money it spends and should further


powers be devolved to Wales? Two questions for those appointed to


the Silk Commission. The Welsh Secretary Cheryl Gillan named Paul


Silk as chair of the commission. He will be joined by representatives


of the four main parties and two independent members. With the


economy struggling and fears about jobs, our political editor asked


Paul Silk whether some people will whether ask why they are tinkering


with the constitution? That is probably not a question for me.


There have been asked to do a particular job -- I have been asked


to. We will do that to the best of our ability. But does not mean that


one is not aware of the context in which people in Wales see


themselves. Of course, colleagues who are members of the commission


and come from political parties will be much more aware of that


perhaps than I hum. And my to speak to True Wales? I would be


absolutely happy to speak to anybody who has a voice inside


Wales, True Wales certainly does and proper, authentic agenda that


they want to pursue, yes, of course we should speak to them for stopped


during the in the studio from True Wales is Rachel Banner along with


Cathy Owens, one of the leading campaigners for Yes For Wales.


Paul Silk was quite non-committal about his answer, why it more


constitutional navel-gazing? reason I help win the Yes campaign


was to provide a legislative programme as well as the programme


in government and I am looking to them to focus on delivering for the


people of Wales, to really make a difference to people's lives and


for people here in Cardiff Bay to scrutinise the world's governments


to make sure they do that. That is perfectly reasonable at the same


time to have some sensible, clever people looking at how the balance


of power is shifting in the UK. It is happening anyway. It might be


taken out of our control so let's make sure we can get the best


advantage of it for the people of Wales. In the March referendum,


every local authority apart from one voted in favour of more powers


for the Assembly. There is an appetite for devolution in Wales.


We were told during the referendum campaign... We will come back to


that. Statistics now show that there were more people in favour of


devolution in Wales in this referendum compared to the last one.


That is not in doubt, is it? That is true to say but also it is


important to tell the truth during referendum campaigns and that did


not happen, the public was misled about the tax issue. There are


strong arguments but we never had a chance for that debate during the


campaign and there need to be questions asked about why tax was


put on the ballot paper, why it was denied that tax powers were given


on the yes but given the coalition government in Westminster had


already said there would be a commission on tax in the event of


yes vote. Why is it that politicians were denying that?


don't think there was a grand deception. There was an explicit


promise in the campaign ahead of the March referendum that this


would not lead to tax bearing powers. There will be a higher


degree from the Rachel Banner campaign. Hang on, it was clear


what we were fighting for and it was not to do with tax raising


powers. The but it was sad that -- it was said at the time... By we


knew what we were fighting for, it was about the legislative programme.


Now it is clear we what the politicians to focus on that and


make changes that help the people of Wales. At the same time, it was


very clear that there was going to be a change. We were not


campaigning to set the balance of power forever. And the coalition


said they would talk about different fiscal powers. You have


to be... We would rather be talking about that than not talking about


it. We have to be having serious responsibilities. Can I ask you


about something you said in the campaign in March, you said


politicians asking... Why should people have any confidence in a


government with a current educational spending record? How


can our country's economic flourish and so on because we have got


under-investment in schools and universities? Surely if you're of


the opinion that Wales is underfunded, you would like to see


a mechanism where more money can be raised? What the yes campaign told


us or politicians told us, we would get the �300 million payment in the


result of yes vote. We are not seeing that Barnet deficit dealt


with. We knew it would not be forthcoming that what we are seeing


is the prospect of higher taxes. We are heading towards a moment of


severe economic crisis and we are be expected to pay more taxes. How


will the Government raised all that money from the people of Wales? We


are already hard pressed. Have they gone about this the wrong way?


Should the Barnett formula be looked at first before tinkering


with taxation, borrowing powers, further devolution? I think this is


all about focusing on the process, really. I think there's so much


more that politicians here can be focusing on. Let's make sure that


they are focused on delivering change. We are in a difficult


economic position. We have got some problems and in some areas we are


doing very well. Let's focus on that. That does not mean that we


cannot also have conversations. Yes, we need to deal with the Barnett


formula and those are ongoing with the Treasury as I understand. It


would be good if we could get some fairer funding settlements for


Wales but I don't think we should sake let's not talk about other


things because, these decisions would be taken out of our hands.


The reading between the lines of what you are saying, you don't


think this commission is important? It might be taken over by events.


It is important we are having these discussions at senior levels and


there are some important people doing this. Sue Essex is brilliant,


but at the same time the Welsh Government here and those who


scrutinise it should be focusing on delivering for the people of Wales


and I think they are an I am quite pleased to see the legislative


programme alongside a government programme that is designed to


deliver jobs, better services for Wales because that is what they are


interested in. You have been critical of the bus government and


the welcome back Assembly Members, -- the Welsh Government. Do you


think better outcomes for the people of Wales, if they have got


�50 million to spend, things might not be as good as when they have to


account for the money they spend -- 15 million? I think it will be hard


to raise that money from the people of Wales. What I would like to


see... It will be a degree of that money. We get �9 billion more from


the UK Treasury than we pay in. We can use that money and I think the


Assembly could be doing far more to improve economic development in


Wales to insure certain things improve. Tax powers are not the


answer to that for. We are only a few months into the new settlement


granted in the referendum, should that not be given time to bed in


before we think about more devolution? Are you suggesting we


should not discuss these things? We have the Welsh Government here that


have the tools we have given it in terms of images dizzied programme


alongside the Government programme. -- in terms of the legislative


programme. Fiscal policy is very important. This is a serious issue


about the truth. That referendum was fought partly on the tax issue,


separate legal jurisdiction is on its way as well. Politicians during


that time, they promised that these things would not happen. We had it


over and over again, these denials. There is an issue with our


democracy. Can I ask a quick question. Paul Silk said there


would be a voice for True Wales, will you engage? We certainly


wealth. Lot of people can engage with this process because it


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