11/12/2011 The Politics Show Wales

Later in the programme: After a referendum and election a euro zone

crisis and an economy on the break, how was 2011 for you?

We look back on the political year with representatives from our four

Apology for the loss of subtitles for 1806 seconds

Hello and welcome to the final Politics Show Wales. Stay with us

for the next half-an-hour. It's our end-of-year show. We thought we'd

take a look back at 2011 and also try to work out where we'll all be

going in 2012, especially at a time when the winter chill is running

through the economy. We have representatives from the four main

parties - a party chairwoman, an AM and MP and an MEP. Sadly even

though it's Christmas, there's no Lord-a-leaping.

Anyway back to 2011. Here's our reporter Adrian Browne's snapshot

of the past 12 months. His report does contain some flash photography.

As 2011 started, Wales did its way through the big freeze. The

financial freeze has stayed with us. Vat jumped to 20% and was quickly

reflected in petrol prices. George Osborne twice told MPs that

economic growth forecasts had been slashed. The euro-zone sclerosis

escalated and Wales's MEPs hope to way through could be found. In

spring along came one of those Welsh devolution referendum

campaigns that tend to crop up every 15 years or so. A resounding

Yes vote for more law-making powers for the National Assembly was one,

albeit on a poor turnout. Later Cheryl Gillan launched a commission

to consider devolving tax-raising powers. The first election saw the

Labour Party secured 30 out of 60 seats in Cardiff Bay. There was no

return for the Labour/Plaid Cymru Coalition. There was a long

farewell to the leader of Plaid Cymru. Conservatives leapfrog them

to become the assembly's second biggest party. Their leader also

lost his seat. He was replaced. The Welsh Liberal Democrats lost one of

their six seats to Labour. Their leader, Kirsty Williams, suffered

the indignity of having two of her AMs suspended because they were not

eligible to stand for election. One was reinstated and the other

replaced. Carwyn Jones's programme included 500 new police community

support officers and increased access to GP services. The

opposition asked whether meaningful targets were? A new compulsory 5p

charge for carrier bags was the most talked about was government

policy of the year. The Liberal Democrats gave the Welsh government

the numbers needed to get the budget through in return for an

extra �20 million for the poorest school pupils. Lib Dems were

accused of seeking to distance themselves from the UK government

partnership with the Conservatives before local elections next year.

That Coalition at Westminster spaced public sector strikes over

pension changes a summer riots across English towns and cities.

Euro crisis summits came and went under pressure on David Cameron

with his pro European Lib Dem Coalition partners on the one side

and Euro-sceptics on the other increased. His decision to veto

treaty changes leaves Britain's relationship with the heel

uncertainty say the least. After the bitter blow of losing a

referendum on changing the way MPs are elected, Nick Clegg continued

to argue plans such as limiting senior executive pay it was a price

worth paying. At the Labour front line at Westminster united in

opposing plans to cut the number of Welsh MPs from 40 to 30. As 2011

draws to a close, there are 16,000 job vacancies advertised at

Jobcentre Plus in Wales. The bad news is the country has 137,000

people who are unemployed with few forecasters predicting the economic

gloom will lift any time soon. Who are the winners and losers in

2011 and what will shape the political landscape in 2012? Plenty

to discuss with the Plaid Cymru Chairwoman Helen Mary Jones, Labour

AM Jenny Rathbone, Jenny Willott MP from the Liberal Democrats and Kay

Swinburne the Conservative MEP. The economy has been the most

talked-about subject in the political year. Who's blame is it?

It is a national crisis but we had a Labour government he did not

regulate the bankers properly and they ran wild. They played ducks

and Drakes with our pensions and the jobs in the future. None of the

political parties can hold their heads up high on this. What do we

need to do? Plaid Cymru is of the view that the level of austerity

and public spending cuts that we are facing, while it might keep

international bankers happy, risk driving us into a double-dip

recession. We must be very careful unless we that is where we end up.

We want to see the Welsh government and the UK government investing in

infrastructure to provide jobs and facilitate the economy for the

future. We are disappointed the Liberal Democrats did not support

our call for extra money in the Welsh budget. Unless we get people

working public services will suffer. We face a very difficult situation.

It is absolutely clear that since 2008, we have had a real challenge

to regulate the banks. We have a completely skewed economy. We

desperately need to revive our manufacturing sector. We will not

be able to do that unless we have a better control on how our finances

are spent. It is a disappointing that David Cameron has walked away

from Europe which is where most of our trade is done. The situation

looks absolutely dire. You have got to acknowledge that your party had

15 years are when they could have regulated banks and invested in

manufacturing and economy and got the banks under control and they

didn't. I think Labour has agreed that we should have regulated the

financial sector. None of the other parties were saying that we needed

to regulate it... That is absolutely not true at all! Vince

Cable was saying for years that we needed to regulate the financial

sector better. Everybody knew outside of the Government. It was

quite clear there was a growing problem and Vince Cable was saying

for a long time before the crisis. As somebody who deals with economic

monetary affairs on behalf of the Conservatives, most of this is not

a UK function. It is a single market function of Europe summit is

the Europeans that regulate the banks and we regulates it --

implemented. It was Europe that got it wrong. It is a single market

issue. The regulation comes from Brussels. I deal with the

legislation day in day out. We need to be very careful about the blame.

It has to be a regulation rather put -- in has been directed rather

than a regulation. Let us look at some Welsh specific issues such as

the rate of unemployment. How do we deal with unemployment which is

rising, especially youth unemployment. In our view we have

to be investing in the economy, in economic development here in Wales.

We must spend more on the infrastructure but in fairness the

Welsh government has had its capital budget stuck -- cut so it

is hard for them to do it. Winnie the economy to be made a priority

but the government has barely done anything. You had this idea that

would create 50,000 new jobs and your manifesto is based on the

principle and idea. The Welsh come to -- the world public did not vote.

There are all sorts of reasons why we did not do well in the election.

It is interesting that the SNP government in Scotland is

implementing something very similar to our programme so it will be

interesting to see if that enables them to have a good influence on

the economy. We know there are international and UK wide issues

but there are things that devolved administrations can do and it is

disappointing to see the Welsh Labour government beat so moribund

on the economy. The assembly are hoping to get 42,000 people into --

more people into jobs but we must do more. We must do all manner of

things. We put �50,000 into creating the Welsh jobs fund and

his apprenticeship schemes. At the end of the day we only have the

resources we get from Westminster. Our tools are limited. We have to

protect and preserve as far as we can be Welsh economy from the storm

that is coming, both from the UK government and from Europe. One of

the most promising things that we are doing is the learning and

skills measure that will improve the training that people are

getting which is much more focused on the jobs that are available and

the needs of manufacturing industry. You pointed out in your piece

earlier that there were 6,000 jobs and 130,000 people on the dole. We

need to fill those 6,000 jobs but the key has to be to attract more

investment into Wales, to rebuild our manufacturing industry so that

we can actually sell to Europe and further afield... The Liberal

Democrats supported the Budget because you got �20 million for the

most disadvantaged children in our schools but that was not the people

premium that you're asking for which was in your manifesto. It is

a version of it. There was also investment in apprenticeships.

concentrate so closely on the money for school children when the

obvious crisis is the economy and a lack of growth and a lack of jobs.

One of the biggest problems in the Welsh system is a lack of skills

among slung people and a lack of proper education... What about the

people you do not have jobs? That is where I said that some of

Baroness more went into increasing apprenticeships. In England there

have been significant investment in apprenticeships and it is starting

to see a big difference in some areas, particularly where there are

deprived communities where there has been heavy investment. It is

really important that we do not just look at the current situation

but we look to the future as well to ensure that the current group of

children who are going through our schools do not come out and face

the same problems that the current pupils do. We are tackling youth

unemployment for those who are 18 to 24 now but we are also tackling

the problem with the skills gap and making an -- making sure your own

people from disadvantaged communities have a better chance to

get work and build successful careers. One way of creating jobs

is through capital spending but we know the money coming from

Westminster has been slashed. Why is there enough money to cut the

tolls on the Humber Bridge for a �500 million tunnel through the

Chiltern Hills when there seems to be no money to extend roads to

Swansea and/tolls on Welsh bridges. It seems that Wales is at a

disadvantage. I would disagree that that is the case. It is all based

on a business case that has been put forward. The Welsh Office are

putting forward a case for Wales, in terms of extra investment

priorities, particularly electrification of the line and

potentially the Swansea link as well. Outside of that we have

something we can do immediately in Wales. We have not spent half of

the structural funds available to us. That is over �1 billion that we

still have to spend. Why not read a wreck that money now into economic

initiatives? Put the money into short-term jobs prospects like

apprenticeships and let the public sector use that money now to

generate growth for our cop economy. We need to use all the tools at our

disposal. Long-term projects are all well and good but it will not

deliver in the next decade. We need to be direct that money right now

into the economy. It is therefore competitiveness reasons and that is

why the get the money and let us make ourselves more competitive by

redirecting that money and it is massive amounts compared took

anything. One of the big problems that business it faces is

infrastructure... You cannot use structural funds for that and you

know that perfectly well. We are very bad at using the structural

funds. I am not saying it is six strategic as it could be but when

your government is taking great lumps out of the Welsh Assembly

budget for capital projects, you cannot create jobs out of nowhere.

You cannot create jobs if you do not have a road or railway to get

people to work and goods to market. It is not there to focus solely on

structural funds. There are issues there but without the capital spend,

how is Wales supposed to make best It is disappointing that the UK

Government slashed at the rate by 50%. That meant that thousands of

families who are about to get panels on their roofs which would

bring down energy bills and contribute to tackling global

climate change, was a polished. Slashed overnight. -- abolished.

That has meant that people have been told that they will not have

these schemes. These were effective ways of getting people to use their

equity to invest in jobs in the here and now. Plumbers had to train

up for these schemes and now they are saying that the market has

disappeared. Another issue which will affect

workers in Wales as a public sector pay and pensions. Coalition -- the

coalition in Westminster wants to renegotiate the terms. We know that

there are plenty of people in Wales and the public sector. Do you see

them being at a disadvantage in the future?

The position right now is unsustainable. There is consensus.

The previous Labour Secretary of State agreed. It is very important

that people on the public sector have a pension to retire on and

that is safe and they can rely on that. But at the moment, the system

is that you can retire significantly earlier in the public

sector than in the private sector. That is not possible -- it is not

possible for that to carry on. But will we see pensions going

down? And because of the review of regional pay, here in Wales, a wage

cut also? We are not seen pensions go down.

People are having to pay more in there. That is a form of production.

But they will see a better pension at the end of it.

That is not what is happening. The money is going straight back to

George Osborne. That is a complete misunderstanding.

It is not. Low-paid workers are having to pay even more of their

salary. And that has already been frozen. The way that the UK

government is approaching this is likely to mean more people opting

out of their pension scheme which means it will store up problems.

Not everybody accepts that these public sector schemes are

unsustainable. Changes have already been carried through in the last

few years. But the Government is not playing.

Some people would say, even more cause to build up the public --

build up the private sector. But we have a baroness recently stating

that there were people in the Labour Party at suspicious of the

private sector. That does not feed and to the feeling that Labour are

on the side of the private sector. On the contrary.

But the comment, she regrets the capitalist system.

That is her personal historic view. But she has created economic

zones... By what measure are we are judging

her effectiveness? If the business community feel they have got the

Government behind them, well, that is not the message I am hearing.

The businesses I talked to are finding that the Welsh government

is a very focused on the economy. But it is extremely fearful of the

macro-economic policies coming from London which are simply not working.

Effort some body is unemployed they are clearly not making any

contribution by way of tax. George Osborne's plan is completely

hopeless and that has been borne out by the increasing deficit. We

need a plan B. An indication that the UK Government is serious about

investing in infrastructure. Leads wind the clock back. Starting

with the referendum. If you landed from Mars you could argue that

nothing has changed. Well, the institution now has the

power to do things. Another thing is the Government actually getting

on with doing it. After six months the first to measure was only

recently. It may be good or bad but I have not even looked at it yet.

But you cannot blame the powers for the fact that the Government is not

using them. The whole of Wales has said that they wanted these

decisions are made in Wales, that we could look after ourselves and

each other better. That was a great day.

Did you take your eye off the ball at the election after concentrating

and that? I do not know, is the honest answer.

But I know that we worked extremely hard on the ground. People in Plaid

Cymru and other parties. We have an internal review which will look at

it. But in the end, Plaid Cymru is about the good of Wales, not the

good of Plaid Cymru. So you could argue it was the right decision to

make. New ministers get on top of their

portfolio. It is important to get their measures right. Properly

scrutinised. It is no good are rushing it.

You cannot scrutinise it until it is implemented.

Of course you cant. But you need to have a draft so there is not so

much work to do it when it needs to be scrutinised. So the Government

is entirely focused on improving the delivery up of public services.

And of trying to protect the jobs and skills. It is an extremely

difficult environment we are working in. But the government is

getting on with it and his United. Are the Liberal Democrats ending

the year on a better note than the where have we through it, I just

wonder, who are the Liberal Democrat? The Friends of the

Conservatives? Befriends a Labour? Sometimes when you try to be

friends with everybody you become friends with no one.

We are an independent party with a clear vision of what we want to

achieve and will work with whoever we think and help us achieve as

much as possible. There was an opportunity with the Welsh a budget

to insecure that there was real Investment elderly on and

disadvantage. So we took the opportunity to do that.

Somewhat cheaply, according to the opposition.

Of course, the opposition would say that. In Westminster we have a

clear prog -- programme we are working on with the coalition. We

have achieved a number of things that were in our manifesto. It just

goes to show that we will work with different political parties in

different situations to achieve as much of what we want to see done.

On a personal note, do you regret the coalition and Westminster?

Absolutely not. There is a huge amount being done there would not

be done without the Liberal Democrats in government. The income

tax threshold being raised. There has been huge investment in

environmental measures. We have seen the pupil premium in the Wales

as well as England doing a huge amount of good in schools in

deprived areas. And there is a whole load of things around

identity cards which the Labour Government was going to bring in,

we have scrapped, all sorts of civil liberty measures the we have

changed as Egg direct result of Liberal Democrat been in government.

Yes, coalition government is difficult, but we have seen a real

market for the Liberal Democrats can do in government.

How big a blow was it for the Conservatives to lose their leader.

-- their leader in Wales? It is always a blow but we have

increased our election in -- increased our vote in every

election. We lost a talented leader but he will go on to other things

and we may not have seen the last of him as a politician. We have a

strong new leader. But the issue is local government elections and

making sure that that trend we have seen over the last five years

continues. That is the reason we have grown over the last five years

- we have taken our message to the people and made them understand it

directly. When they come on board with us, then hopefully they will

stay on board over the long term. Another challenge for the New Year

is the new leader of your party. Who should that be?

As the party chair I am politically responsible for making sure the

election run smoothly so I am unable to select or state a

preference. But the party will decide which way it want to go then

will choose the leader that can take us there.

Now that the Liberal Democrat support you on the Budget, do the

Labour group now feel slightly more comfortable? Knowing that when you

need support it is there? We need to get our budget through

in the context of economic crisis we're all trying to manage.

Uncertainty is one of the worst things for business. But, are you

know, we do not know what the future relationship will be with

the Liberal Democrats in the assembly. But we certainly have to

be mindful of what is going on in the rest of the world. Events on

Friday with David Cameron completely losing it in Europe...

This is going off track. We only have 90 seconds left.

20 seconds for each of you. A wish for the New Year.

Economic growth, reduce unemployment.

All politicians are working for Wales.

Investment in infrastructure to reduce unemployment, especially

youth unemployment which is terrifying.

Tackling climate change, keeping people's bills down.

I thought you about to predict a general election!