Browse content similar to 04/12/2011. Check below for episodes and series from the same categories and more!
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Later, change or face problems that beset their health service after | :00:52. | :00:56. | |
the Second World War. And jazz the eurozone crisis but | :00:56. | :01:06. | |
:01:06. | :01:06. | ||
Apology for the loss of subtitles for 2017 seconds | :01:06. | :34:44. | |
did repatriation of powers on the Welcome to the Politics Show in | :34:44. | :34:48. | |
Wales. Coming up, the euro, pensions, business confidence and | :34:48. | :34:52. | |
Christmas. But first the senior -- a senior | :34:52. | :34:56. | |
figure in the NHS has said that if proposed changes to the NHS do not | :34:56. | :35:01. | |
change, the problems that beset health care after the Second World | :35:01. | :35:08. | |
War will return. Professor Sir Mansel Aylward, told us that the | :35:08. | :35:12. | |
poor could be left in a dark hole, with their health deteriorating | :35:12. | :35:19. | |
rapidly. For many years, reports have warned | :35:19. | :35:23. | |
the Welsh NHS must change radically, or face being overwhelmed. Until | :35:23. | :35:30. | |
now, change has been at best limited. The most recent document | :35:30. | :35:35. | |
warning the NHS of the need for reform came in May, from the bed in | :35:35. | :35:42. | |
commission, made up of health professionals and expires. -- | :35:42. | :35:52. | |
:35:52. | :35:55. | ||
experts. It was chaired by Sir Mansell Aylward. It was promised | :35:55. | :36:03. | |
that changes would be made, and more services offered at home. The | :36:03. | :36:13. | |
:36:13. | :36:16. | ||
head of the public advisory body... What should the NHS in Wales look | :36:16. | :36:21. | |
like in 10 years' time, if the reforms that you want to see are | :36:21. | :36:26. | |
actually acted on. It is defined as world-class health care, and if we | :36:27. | :36:30. | |
can say that the system is as good as or better than elsewhere, that | :36:30. | :36:35. | |
would be good. We can use it as a benchmark. It will be a service | :36:35. | :36:39. | |
that will be safer for people to going to hospital. The service were | :36:39. | :36:44. | |
people who go into hospital will not have to stay there. A service | :36:44. | :36:48. | |
where much of the work that is done and secondary care hospitals now it | :36:48. | :36:52. | |
is moved into the community. People will be able to access care in | :36:52. | :36:56. | |
their own home. Their own GP will be able to provide them with a | :36:56. | :37:00. | |
better range of options. There will be local health centres which will | :37:00. | :37:07. | |
focus upon not just looking at curing people, but looking at | :37:07. | :37:12. | |
improving the health and other ways, by exploiting the link between | :37:12. | :37:15. | |
public health, the NHS and local government. It will be a safer | :37:16. | :37:20. | |
system, a quality improved system. We have heard many warnings over | :37:20. | :37:28. | |
the years, saying the NHS has to change, things are unsustainable. | :37:28. | :37:32. | |
Disaster if things don't happen. You do not get the impression that | :37:32. | :37:39. | |
changes have happen. -- have happened. I feel depressed and | :37:39. | :37:43. | |
disappointed that there has been little progress. The demographic | :37:43. | :37:49. | |
changes, people are getting older, and therefore we have a lot of -- a | :37:49. | :37:53. | |
larger population of people who have larger problems than the | :37:53. | :37:57. | |
younger population. Medical advances, technical advances, they | :37:58. | :38:01. | |
all contribute to how will be managed to pay for the NHS and | :38:01. | :38:06. | |
deliver the services we want? There has been progress. Certainly the | :38:06. | :38:12. | |
NHS reforms where we have got single unified health boards, and | :38:12. | :38:16. | |
we haven't -- abandoned the market approach, they have brought a much | :38:16. | :38:25. | |
more focused emphasis to the NHS on quality and care, and provision. | :38:25. | :38:29. | |
But we have not really cracked it. Together for Health, which the | :38:29. | :38:34. | |
Minister launched a couple of weeks ago, that is another vision. It is | :38:34. | :38:40. | |
very similar to addressing the issues that have been addressed all | :38:40. | :38:44. | |
along, but to me, it has a greater commitment to it, and says things | :38:44. | :38:49. | |
that have not been said before. It talks about not just dealing with | :38:49. | :38:55. | |
care, but avoiding illness, which is very important. In short, my | :38:56. | :39:00. | |
answer is yes, we need to do a lot more. But we're not going to get | :39:00. | :39:05. | |
many more chances. In the past we had plenty of money, and perhaps we | :39:05. | :39:09. | |
spent it wrongly. Now we have got no money -- more money, and that | :39:09. | :39:16. | |
will force us to think about changing to better quality, safer | :39:16. | :39:21. | |
hospitals. We have emotional attachments, particularly to our | :39:21. | :39:29. | |
local hospitals. Do you need to tell us that if everything is done | :39:29. | :39:34. | |
at your local hospital, you are frankly more likely to die, than if | :39:34. | :39:37. | |
you went that much further a weightier more specialised | :39:37. | :39:43. | |
facilities? No, we do not want to scare you about that, and what we | :39:43. | :39:48. | |
should remember is nowadays there are people who have unusual | :39:48. | :39:57. | |
diseases Andreea conditions, -- rare conditions, and you cannot | :39:57. | :40:01. | |
always deliver that at the local level. It would be foolhardy to say | :40:01. | :40:05. | |
that we should all be treated in the same way at the District | :40:05. | :40:13. | |
Hospital, which the minister says they will continue. You have to | :40:14. | :40:20. | |
have specialised centres. We have got to look at the conditions | :40:20. | :40:24. | |
people they have, and match them to treatment they have. We do need | :40:24. | :40:28. | |
general hospitals, and we need health centres, but we also need | :40:28. | :40:33. | |
specialised centres. The other area where we can avoid risk is the | :40:33. | :40:37. | |
campaign was based on the fact that there are deaths in hospital that | :40:37. | :40:42. | |
are run avoid -- are avoidable. I was involved in the beginning with | :40:42. | :40:45. | |
this, and I tried to persuade politicians that this was not a | :40:45. | :40:50. | |
message that would frighten people. It was saying, this is what is | :40:50. | :40:54. | |
happening, this is a measure of the quality you get in hospital. Not | :40:54. | :40:59. | |
just in Wales, but throughout the world. That was accepted, but many | :40:59. | :41:03. | |
people said you cannot tell people they are going to die in hospital. | :41:03. | :41:10. | |
But people do die in hospital, and we expect that. We do not expect | :41:10. | :41:20. | |
:41:20. | :41:21. | ||
people to die is this could have been avoidable. We are trying to | :41:21. | :41:31. | |
:41:31. | :41:31. | ||
avoid mistakes. I want you, as the public, to say, I am not putting up | :41:31. | :41:35. | |
with this, I want a better quality of life and health care, and I do | :41:35. | :41:40. | |
not want to be a risk when I going to hospital. That is what we want | :41:40. | :41:47. | |
NHS Wales to be like. If the reforms are not made, if the | :41:47. | :41:56. | |
changes do not happen, how a ragged could NHS services get? When we | :41:56. | :42:06. | |
:42:06. | :42:09. | ||
first spoke about the NHS in 1960. People were dying earlier, people | :42:09. | :42:13. | |
were dying of diseases that could not be cured, people were dying of | :42:14. | :42:21. | |
minor things. That Panorama that was around post war will be again, | :42:21. | :42:25. | |
we will have post-Cold lotteries, and most importantly the richer | :42:25. | :42:29. | |
would get better, there is no two ways about that, and the poorer | :42:29. | :42:34. | |
would get poorer, and their health would deteriorate markedly. Because | :42:35. | :42:39. | |
what the NHS does, and we must be mindful of the fact that the NHS is | :42:39. | :42:49. | |
:42:49. | :42:49. | ||
about people who are poor, indeed, in distress, and need a better NHS | :42:49. | :42:59. | |
:42:59. | :43:01. | ||
service. It is like the man who is robbed of his memory because of | :43:01. | :43:05. | |
Alzheimer's disease, and the elderly lady who needs a hip | :43:05. | :43:09. | |
operation, this is what the NHS is all about, and we cannot forsake | :43:09. | :43:15. | |
them. So we must do well, but we must avoid those people being left | :43:15. | :43:21. | |
in the dark hole. Professor Sir Mansel Aylward, thank you very much. | :43:21. | :43:26. | |
Thank you. David Cameron insists he will | :43:26. | :43:30. | |
defend Britain's interests of European treaties are rewritten in | :43:30. | :43:35. | |
the wake of the eurozone debt crisis. He is preparing to attend a | :43:35. | :43:40. | |
crisis summit with other European leaders this week. I spoke to two | :43:40. | :43:50. | |
:43:50. | :43:52. | ||
senior -- former MEPs. Wayne David and Jonathan Evans. | :43:52. | :43:58. | |
The centralising member state budgets, that will depend on what | :43:58. | :44:01. | |
control you are talking about. It is important for Britain to be | :44:01. | :44:06. | |
there, and the national interests to be protected. But if David | :44:06. | :44:14. | |
Cameron follows what the Euro- sceptics are saying, then some | :44:14. | :44:18. | |
countries are likely to say we will do her own thing, and we're on the | :44:18. | :44:23. | |
sidelines. The 10 countries who are not in the euro are on the | :44:23. | :44:27. | |
sidelines to some extent in the debate, which is a good thing. | :44:27. | :44:31. | |
There are very many people in Parliament who are due to be in the | :44:31. | :44:39. | |
euro, who would like to forget some of the remarks made at the time, -- | :44:39. | :44:43. | |
at the time. But you cannot sideline the 10 who are not in the | :44:43. | :44:47. | |
euro from being actively involved in economic conditions, but we | :44:47. | :44:51. | |
would not want to have or budgets being looked over by the Germans | :44:51. | :45:00. | |
and French, being approved by Angela Merkel, and Mr Sarkozy. For | :45:00. | :45:04. | |
a short period of time, they may be prepared to sign up to this in | :45:04. | :45:08. | |
order to get themselves through the immediate crisis, but I think there | :45:08. | :45:11. | |
is a huge political question about whether the countries will be | :45:11. | :45:15. | |
comfortable for a long time, with Berlin deciding their economic | :45:15. | :45:21. | |
policy. If the this treaty change in the future, David Cameron has on | :45:21. | :45:24. | |
records as saying he wants to protect Britain's interests. What | :45:24. | :45:31. | |
do you think he has in mind? think he has in mind getting back | :45:31. | :45:34. | |
the opt-outs in relation to social policy that John Major had | :45:34. | :45:37. | |
negotiated and agreed to the country, which were later given | :45:37. | :45:42. | |
away by Tony Blair. He will want to have some security in relation to | :45:42. | :45:46. | |
the City of London, and he has raised that already. These are big | :45:46. | :45:55. | |
issues for us. If the treaty change his Berlin deciding to approve the | :45:55. | :46:00. | |
EU budgets for the other 17 countries in the eurozone area, I | :46:00. | :46:04. | |
would a car -- regard that as a major change, not a trivial change. | :46:04. | :46:09. | |
If that is so, it is perfectly likely that the Prime Minister will | :46:09. | :46:12. | |
be saying, if that is going to take place we have got to have British | :46:12. | :46:17. | |
interests protect it. What should be the priority for David Cameron? | :46:17. | :46:22. | |
Should it be protecting the single currency, single market, or | :46:22. | :46:27. | |
repatriating powers back to this country? The first priority has to | :46:27. | :46:30. | |
make sure of the stability inside the euro-zone. Not because we are | :46:31. | :46:35. | |
concerned about the eurozone as such, but it has a huge impact on | :46:35. | :46:39. | |
the United Kingdom. 3 million jobs are dependent on the stability in | :46:39. | :46:47. | |
the eurozone. It is very important that Cameron goes there and does | :46:47. | :46:51. | |
everything he can to ensure that France and Germany especially give | :46:51. | :46:55. | |
a coherent lead to make sure the Spiller -- stability is at Chief. | :46:55. | :46:59. | |
How much of this is about the politics of it? Of David Cameron is | :46:59. | :47:04. | |
going to be concentrating on the eurozone crisis and not so much on | :47:04. | :47:07. | |
repatriating powers, there will be some backbenchers in your party up | :47:07. | :47:11. | |
in arms. There are many backbenchers who would not want to | :47:11. | :47:15. | |
be in the European Union, but I am not one of them. I share the view | :47:15. | :47:19. | |
it is positive for us to be in the single market. But that does not | :47:19. | :47:23. | |
mean that on Major -- a major priority on anything is to link the | :47:23. | :47:26. | |
two what Berlin and Paris suggest. They have to look after the British | :47:26. | :47:36. | |
:47:36. | :47:39. | ||
interests. The answer for the instability as for Angela Merkel to | :47:39. | :47:43. | |
grasp the nettle. If she talks endlessly about more Europe, more | :47:43. | :47:50. | |
integration, she has to put the credibility of Germany and its | :47:50. | :47:54. | |
economic credibility behind some of the other states which are at the | :47:54. | :47:59. | |
margins, and I am afraid that so far, meeting after meeting, the | :47:59. | :48:03. | |
Germans have not done that. Hopefully in the next 10 days, that | :48:03. | :48:09. | |
will take place, because until it does the crisis will continue. | :48:09. | :48:13. | |
wonder if the eurozone crisis has played into the hands of the pro | :48:13. | :48:16. | |
Europeans, that they are now coming out to say that we need European | :48:16. | :48:22. | |
countries to work better together, that needs to be more integration | :48:22. | :48:25. | |
to secure the euro, and we are hearing less voices saying let's | :48:25. | :48:30. | |
get powers back from Brussels. think it is the case that there has | :48:30. | :48:35. | |
been a lot of flag-waving -- flag- waving among certain Euro-sceptics. | :48:35. | :48:40. | |
Jonathan is clearly not one of them. That is harmful to Britain's | :48:40. | :48:44. | |
national interest. This is a serious situation, and we always | :48:44. | :48:49. | |
need to know what is best for Britain. For 200 years, the United | :48:49. | :48:55. | |
Kingdom has taken the view that her role is to be in with the European | :48:55. | :49:01. | |
partners, not necessarily been part of Europe all the time, and I think | :49:01. | :49:06. | |
that is what is going to happen. David Cameron must say that this is | :49:06. | :49:10. | |
in Britain's national interest. I believe Germany has to take a more | :49:10. | :49:14. | |
positive role, I would like to see the development of eurobonds, | :49:14. | :49:18. | |
greater role for the European Central Bank. That would be in | :49:18. | :49:22. | |
their best interest, and the crucial thing for us is not how far | :49:22. | :49:26. | |
can we get away from it, but how far can we be there making sure our | :49:26. | :49:31. | |
national interests are protected? Can be turned to another subject in | :49:31. | :49:35. | |
the news, which is public sector pensions. Lord Hutton Today said | :49:35. | :49:42. | |
that this is a credible offer by the present government. He is | :49:42. | :49:46. | |
letting your party down, after being a member of the former Labour | :49:46. | :49:54. | |
government, isn't he? I do not think he is. Whether it is a good | :49:54. | :49:58. | |
offer is another matter altogether. The trade unions are right to be | :49:58. | :50:04. | |
making sure they get the best deal for their members. The trade unions | :50:04. | :50:08. | |
naturally want the best possible deal for them. Some people would | :50:08. | :50:13. | |
argue that credible and good are quite similar. No, there is a big | :50:13. | :50:19. | |
difference. There is no doubt that the figures stack up, but is that | :50:19. | :50:23. | |
the point? It is about whether everything is going to fall, or if | :50:23. | :50:28. | |
we have a responsible position adopted by the trade unions. I | :50:28. | :50:31. | |
believe that there will be a coming together of the government changes | :50:31. | :50:35. | |
its position, which I believe it will do. I believe the situation is | :50:35. | :50:45. | |
so serious that we have to get away from tribalism and politics. I | :50:45. | :50:49. | |
think... I am very concerned about what impact the changes have on the | :50:49. | :50:52. | |
public sector, but at the same time the unions have claimed until now | :50:52. | :50:57. | |
that John Hutton said the current system is completely sustainable. I | :50:57. | :51:01. | |
have had letters from my constituents who have said that. | :51:01. | :51:04. | |
But John Hutton has made it clear that what the Government has put | :51:04. | :51:08. | |
forward as a credible answer, and if we do not go forward with the | :51:08. | :51:16. | |
change, ultimately we make -- might end up hitting the buffers. I asked | :51:16. | :51:20. | |
a colleague last week, Alan Cairns, whether it was feared if public | :51:20. | :51:25. | |
sector workers would be retiring on pensions of 3,000 or �4,000 a year, | :51:25. | :51:29. | |
after the reforms kicked in. Is that a fair settlement who have | :51:29. | :51:36. | |
given their working lives to the public sector? That statistic, in | :51:36. | :51:40. | |
terms of �3,000, is nonsense. The reality is that in order to produce | :51:40. | :51:43. | |
that figure, all of the people who have only worked for a short period | :51:43. | :51:48. | |
of time in the public sector are added into the numbers. The reality | :51:48. | :51:51. | |
is that if you have spent a lifetime working in the public | :51:52. | :51:55. | |
sector, you will end up with a significantly better pension than | :51:55. | :52:01. | |
someone who has worked a lifetime in the private sector. The current | :52:01. | :52:05. | |
level of those pensions, being based on final salaries. Final | :52:05. | :52:09. | |
salaries for some people, who are paid very big wages, are | :52:09. | :52:14. | |
unsustainable. John Hutton has said that, and he also said putting | :52:14. | :52:21. | |
Labour tribalism to one side, this is a credible offer. Do you think | :52:21. | :52:26. | |
union leader should go the extra mile so we can have a settlements | :52:26. | :52:32. | |
in? I think everyone has to go the extra mile, because it is important. | :52:32. | :52:37. | |
It is as important a settlement is reached. We have to recognise that | :52:37. | :52:40. | |
we are talking about people not to our rich and affluent, like some of | :52:40. | :52:45. | |
the top executives in businesses, but lowly paid people. It has been | :52:46. | :52:49. | |
one of the accepted things and the public sector that although the | :52:49. | :52:55. | |
wages might not be good, pensions were good. Having an attack on | :52:55. | :52:58. | |
pensions and the way it has been handled is very unfair and regress | :52:58. | :53:03. | |
of the stock the offer is protecting lower-paid people. | :53:03. | :53:07. | |
the people at the top who are suffering a major loss. But the | :53:07. | :53:13. | |
figures do not bear that out. you very much for joining us for. | :53:13. | :53:17. | |
We will continue with the economy, more can -- specifically the Welsh | :53:17. | :53:27. | |
:53:27. | :53:31. | ||
economy. I enjoyed by a Istin Davies, the reality is that we are | :53:31. | :53:37. | |
seeing less people spending money. Yes, people are shopping more | :53:37. | :53:46. | |
frequently, but less money is being spent. We need to make opportunity | :53:46. | :53:50. | |
for local businesses over the shopping p it. Are there are less | :53:50. | :53:56. | |
people walking through the doors, or the availability for loans -- of | :53:56. | :54:00. | |
loans from banks, what are the specifics regarding the businesses | :54:00. | :54:10. | |
:54:10. | :54:17. | ||
are? They are all adding together to create a pest -- Perfect Storm. | :54:17. | :54:21. | |
As you go shopping, the Christmas spirit is an important part of what | :54:21. | :54:25. | |
we experience at this time of year. Local traders can provide you with | :54:25. | :54:29. | |
the special something that adds value to the economy, but to the | :54:29. | :54:35. | |
experience at Christmas. If you are run manufacturing more detail, or | :54:35. | :54:39. | |
providing a service, this time of year is incredibly important. Small | :54:39. | :54:45. | |
businesses are notoriously difficult, and we're making the | :54:45. | :54:49. | |
most of this period. A lot of shops are starting their Christmas sales. | :54:49. | :54:54. | |
Is that a sign of how bad things are? I do not think so, I think it | :54:55. | :54:59. | |
is a sign of how committed the traders are to commit to the | :54:59. | :55:02. | |
customers and make sure there is added value over the Christmas | :55:02. | :55:07. | |
period, which means something to the customers. It also adds to the | :55:07. | :55:13. | |
sense of well-being. Economic confidence is fragile, but it is | :55:13. | :55:16. | |
important that small businesses are allowed to contribute the attic | :55:16. | :55:26. | |
:55:26. | :55:29. | ||
just a moving. -- to that at the moment. Did you see anything in the | :55:29. | :55:31. | |
Autumn Statement foreign figures from the Welsh government that will | :55:31. | :55:35. | |
give businesses some hope? There are some nuggets of Christmas cheer | :55:35. | :55:39. | |
coming from Westminster. There are some good signs coming from Cardiff | :55:39. | :55:43. | |
Bay as well. We need to bring them together to develop a strong | :55:44. | :55:51. | |
message. Cardiff Bay has to say this is how we're going to support | :55:51. | :55:59. | |
the Welsh economy, to make sure we're going to drive the economy | :55:59. | :56:03. | |
forward. I suppose the problem is that people have less money in | :56:03. | :56:08. | |
their pockets, and it is very hard to entice them to spend what little | :56:09. | :56:14. | |
money there have. Indeed. We need to seek creative marketing | :56:14. | :56:17. | |
strategies. It is not the time to look for new markets, but it is the | :56:17. | :56:22. | |
time to go for existing business and show that you are providing | :56:22. | :56:31. | |
value. Thank you very much. Let us not forget that Christmas is | :56:31. | :56:38. | |
on its way, amid the gloom. Earlier this week the presiding Officer | :56:38. | :56:42. | |
Rosemary Butler invited two schools to the Senedd to decorate the | :56:42. | :56:52. | |
:56:52. | :56:59. | ||
I would like a real pony. I would like and a C D C C D. -- AC/DC | :56:59. | :57:08. | |
albums. The children have been decorating the tree is this morning. | :57:08. | :57:12. | |
They told me what you would like for Christmas. What would you like? | :57:12. | :57:19. | |
I have a long list, but I will not share with that. I would like to be | :57:20. | :57:24. | |
with my family and friends and enjoy Christmas. It is a wonderful | :57:24. | :57:28. | |
time of the year. I am looking forward to relaxing after a busy | :57:28. | :57:32. | |
session. What would you like to see the assembly achieve next year? | :57:33. | :57:38. | |
you know, last March the people of Wales gave us a resounding Yes in | :57:38. | :57:45. | |
the referendum. My hope for next year is to make sure that people -- | :57:45. | :57:51. | |
we start bringing Delors through that are made for people in Wales. | :57:51. | :57:58. | |
-- the laws. The Government has been dragging their heels, there | :57:58. | :58:02. | |
are still no new legislation has been brought forward. Who has been | :58:02. | :58:06. | |
dragging their heels? I will be moving it forward and a speedy | :58:06. | :58:13. | |
manner. Ponies, AC/DC albums and as in the | :58:13. | :58:23. | |
:58:23. | :58:25. |