Browse content similar to 27/11/2011. Check below for episodes and series from the same categories and more!
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Later in the programme, the Welsh secretary of the Unite union | :00:53. | :00:55. | |
defends Wednesday's planned public sector strike. | :00:55. | :00:59. | |
And the Welsh budget deal is done but at what price? The powerbroker, | :00:59. | :01:09. | |
:01:09. | :01:09. | ||
Apology for the loss of subtitles for 2014 seconds | :01:09. | :34:44. | |
the Leader of the Lib Dems Kirsty Hello and welcome to the Politics | :34:44. | :34:47. | |
Show in Wales. Coming up, we'll hear from one of the Welsh budget's | :34:47. | :34:56. | |
powerbrokers. It would have been unthinkable, | :34:56. | :35:00. | |
giving it these difficult times, for parties to leave this country | :35:00. | :35:03. | |
without a budget. But first, as Wednesday draws near it's becoming | :35:03. | :35:06. | |
clearer how the biggest day of industrial action for a generation | :35:06. | :35:08. | |
will affect our public services. Airports, courts, government | :35:08. | :35:14. | |
offices, job centers, schools and council services will be hit. It's | :35:14. | :35:16. | |
in protest at UK Government plans to make public sector workers | :35:16. | :35:22. | |
retire later and contribute more to the cost of their pensions. Our | :35:22. | :35:24. | |
reporter has been talking to Andy Richards, Unite's Wales secretary | :35:24. | :35:27. | |
and TUC Wales President, at the union's recently refurbished | :35:27. | :35:35. | |
Cardiff headquarters. The for more than three decades, | :35:35. | :35:40. | |
this building, formerly known as Transport House in Cardiff, has | :35:40. | :35:43. | |
been the hub of the labour movement in Wales. | :35:43. | :35:47. | |
We spent �3.5 million on the building. It really need is | :35:47. | :35:51. | |
spending. Unite Wales secretary Andy Richards | :35:51. | :35:56. | |
told me that for years of refurbishment and �3.5 million of | :35:56. | :35:59. | |
investment had finally tracked the previously down-at-heel | :35:59. | :36:03. | |
headquarters of trade unions, the Wales TUC and the Welsh Labour | :36:03. | :36:09. | |
Party into the 21st century. We have a new banner here. This is | :36:09. | :36:15. | |
the Red Dragon. The banner of Wales. But it was the biggest labour | :36:15. | :36:20. | |
dispute of this century that we have come to discuss. Andy Richards, | :36:20. | :36:24. | |
what sort of level of disruption are you expected on Wednesday? What | :36:24. | :36:27. | |
will public services look like to the public? | :36:27. | :36:31. | |
Let me just say that we don't wish as a union to have any disruption | :36:31. | :36:38. | |
at all. If it were possible that we could drag this Westminster | :36:38. | :36:42. | |
government back to the negotiating table feet-first and kicking, we | :36:42. | :36:48. | |
possibly wouldn't be having any disruption but we anticipate in | :36:48. | :36:51. | |
Wales very few public services to be actually working. | :36:51. | :36:55. | |
What level of public support do you think you have? It is a very | :36:55. | :36:59. | |
difficult time for people at the moment. They are worried about | :36:59. | :37:02. | |
their jobs and incomes are being squeezed. Is this the right time | :37:02. | :37:08. | |
for this level of action? At this point in time, we have got | :37:08. | :37:12. | |
quite significant growth in public support. That was shown at the June | :37:12. | :37:17. | |
event that we had when teachers went on strike. As more and more | :37:17. | :37:24. | |
people come into the knowledge that they are being asked to pay for a | :37:24. | :37:29. | |
crisis engineered by the heads of the financial institutions, Cameron | :37:29. | :37:36. | |
and Clegg's makes, and we see the attacks on workers' rights and | :37:36. | :37:40. | |
trade unions coming forth from the Tories as usual, I think there is | :37:40. | :37:48. | |
significant growing support. I think a lot of people, our parents, | :37:48. | :37:54. | |
they see that cutbacks and losses of jobs in support services and so | :37:54. | :37:59. | |
on, those loss of jobs mean there is going to be nothing for children | :37:59. | :38:04. | |
when they leave school. As parents, we want better for our children at | :38:04. | :38:11. | |
that age. People are coming to realise the severity of what this | :38:11. | :38:14. | |
unelected Tory and Liberal Alliance are doing. | :38:14. | :38:17. | |
One of the criticisms we are seeing from government is that public | :38:17. | :38:21. | |
sector workers have pensions that people in the private sector could | :38:21. | :38:27. | |
only dream of. Gold-plated pensions is what we hear. Can you give us an | :38:27. | :38:32. | |
idea of the level of pension we are talking about amongst your members? | :38:32. | :38:37. | |
Absolutely. Gold-plated? They are more like a brass plate it as far | :38:37. | :38:44. | |
as our members are concerned. Our members in public services | :38:44. | :38:49. | |
generally can expect a pension of between 70 and �80 per week when | :38:49. | :38:54. | |
they retire. That is the vast majority of our members. There are | :38:54. | :39:00. | |
the small section of employees who are on greater pensions but if you | :39:00. | :39:06. | |
are asking me the majority of Unite union members, that is the actual | :39:06. | :39:11. | |
level we are talking about. It is a fact that is being glossed over by | :39:11. | :39:15. | |
this particular government. One of the issues you have got his | :39:15. | :39:23. | |
the turnout level in at the ballot. 31 % of your members actually voted | :39:23. | :39:27. | |
at all. Surely that is a problem for you that fewer than a third | :39:27. | :39:31. | |
actually turned out and voted. Let me let you in on a little | :39:31. | :39:35. | |
secret and the West -- and the rest of the Welsh nation. The reason we | :39:35. | :39:41. | |
only have those turnouts in ballots is a result of people not are not | :39:41. | :39:46. | |
supporting the union's line but in the main, people don't like to post | :39:46. | :39:52. | |
a ballot paper back. You can't say that out of all the people that | :39:52. | :39:57. | |
have underrated, they would have voted against the strike. Our | :39:57. | :40:02. | |
indications given the polls we are doing that Unite, they show that | :40:02. | :40:06. | |
most of them would have supported the strike. If David Cameron is | :40:06. | :40:09. | |
saying that all of those people who didn't vote in the ballot would | :40:10. | :40:13. | |
have voted in father, it follows that all those people who didn't | :40:13. | :40:18. | |
vote for him would have voted for Labour? I don't think so. We have | :40:18. | :40:28. | |
to be realistic. 31 %, given the ballot process, is not ideal but it | :40:28. | :40:32. | |
is realistic and we can proceed with this dispute. | :40:32. | :40:36. | |
Thank you. Earlier I spoke to Labour's Nia | :40:36. | :40:39. | |
Griffiths and the Conservative Alun Cairns. I began by asking him for | :40:39. | :40:48. | |
his reaction to what the unions are saying. I don't accept that. What | :40:48. | :40:51. | |
frustrates me and disappoints me more than anything is that | :40:51. | :40:55. | |
negotiations are ongoing and what sort of negotiations do you have | :40:55. | :41:00. | |
when there is a strike hanging over you? It is worth remembering that | :41:00. | :41:05. | |
the ballot was conducted generally for most of the unions in September. | :41:05. | :41:08. | |
Just two weeks ago, at the beginning of November, the | :41:08. | :41:13. | |
government offered a very generous concession in relation to the | :41:13. | :41:18. | |
pension to improve it for lower earners and to protect the pensions | :41:18. | :41:22. | |
for anyone who retires in the next 10 years. A significant shift on | :41:22. | :41:28. | |
behalf of the government a few weeks ago but yet the unions are | :41:28. | :41:31. | |
driving home strike action on Wednesday which could tip the | :41:31. | :41:36. | |
economy over the edge into recession. That is what worries me. | :41:36. | :41:40. | |
Nia Griffiths, negotiations are ongoing. Why walk away from the | :41:41. | :41:45. | |
table now and why not give ground, seeing that the government has made | :41:45. | :41:49. | |
compromise already? What sort of negotiators have we | :41:49. | :41:53. | |
got? We have got megaphone negotiations with one thing being | :41:53. | :41:57. | |
said, we will withdraw this offer if you don't call off your stride | :41:57. | :42:01. | |
immediately, and a publication on the government's own website of a | :42:01. | :42:05. | |
table which shows people are going to have 20 % cuts when the | :42:05. | :42:08. | |
government is telling them they won't have those cuts. People don't | :42:08. | :42:12. | |
have much faith when they see that happening. The government has had | :42:12. | :42:17. | |
months and months to be round the table with unions on this. In 2000 | :42:17. | :42:27. | |
date, we bit the bullet and sorted things out. -- 2008. It was sorted | :42:27. | :42:32. | |
out by negotiation. We never came to a stage like this. We have 33 | :42:32. | :42:35. | |
unions. Some very, very moderate unions and people who have never | :42:35. | :42:40. | |
been on strike. A whole range of public sector workers who are | :42:40. | :42:43. | |
extremely frustrated. The majority of them on not | :42:43. | :42:48. | |
bothering to vote? The answer to that is what Andy | :42:48. | :42:55. | |
said. We are all very, very busy. People have jobs and families. | :42:55. | :42:59. | |
There wasn't the hype in the media we now have won the ballot was | :42:59. | :43:03. | |
being done. A lot of this debate is centred | :43:03. | :43:07. | |
around the gold-plated pensions. Where is the fairness in cutting | :43:07. | :43:14. | |
the pensions of people who will be retiring on �4,000 per year or? | :43:14. | :43:17. | |
That will relate to the salary level those people would have | :43:18. | :43:21. | |
earned as well as the amount of years they would have contributed. | :43:21. | :43:24. | |
Under the significant concession that was offered a couple of weeks | :43:24. | :43:29. | |
ago, it would protect anyone and improved the penchant for anyone | :43:29. | :43:33. | |
earning up to �15,000 a year and protect the interests of people | :43:33. | :43:38. | |
earning up to �21,000 per year so the lowest earners would be | :43:38. | :43:43. | |
protected and have better contributions. Anyone within 10 | :43:43. | :43:46. | |
years of retirement would be preserved and have exactly the same | :43:46. | :43:51. | |
sort of pension they get now. That leave it the other a group of | :43:51. | :43:56. | |
people that earned a lot more money. That gives them the opportunity to | :43:56. | :43:58. | |
increase their contributions to insure they have their pensions for | :43:58. | :44:01. | |
much longer because people are living longer. | :44:01. | :44:04. | |
Do you believe everyone in the public sector is retiring on a | :44:04. | :44:10. | |
gold-plated pensions? Under the terms of the pension, yes. | :44:10. | :44:14. | |
Everyone in the public sector? Compared to the amount of | :44:14. | :44:17. | |
contributions... That would be their salary that they would have | :44:17. | :44:21. | |
earned and it would relate to their salary. | :44:21. | :44:26. | |
�15,000 per year retiring on �4,000 a year? Is that there? | :44:26. | :44:29. | |
If you are someone in the private sector earning that sum of money, | :44:29. | :44:33. | |
they wouldn't even have that level of benefit that people in the | :44:33. | :44:36. | |
public sector are getting so why don't have an issue with public | :44:36. | :44:40. | |
sector workers themselves. I have an issue with union leaders are | :44:40. | :44:46. | |
hell-bent on striking whatever the issue may be. That goes to show | :44:46. | :44:49. | |
that huge concessions offered by the government a few weeks ago but | :44:49. | :44:53. | |
they are determined to drive the strike home. The most delicate | :44:53. | :44:58. | |
thing about this is the economy. It really does will be made at �500 | :44:59. | :45:02. | |
million, this strike will cost the economy, and she may drive a number | :45:02. | :45:06. | |
of businesses in Wales and across the UK out of business. | :45:06. | :45:11. | |
The Labour Party is in a pickle. You are so reliant on the unions | :45:11. | :45:17. | |
for many -- for money and yet you are coming out and saying that | :45:17. | :45:23. | |
people have the right to go on strike. It seems contradictory. | :45:23. | :45:28. | |
I think we should all defend the right to strike. Let us look at the | :45:28. | :45:32. | |
actual facts. The government has admitted this is a 3% tax. It is a | :45:32. | :45:36. | |
tax, they have said, to help pay back the deficit. They recognise | :45:36. | :45:41. | |
the pension thing was sorted out in 2008. You have people on low | :45:41. | :45:46. | |
incomes losing �30 a month. People on average incomes are losing �90 a | :45:46. | :45:52. | |
month. That is a lot of money went fewer and fewer -- fuel prices are | :45:52. | :46:01. | |
rocketing. Money is being taken out of the economy and that money is | :46:01. | :46:04. | |
actually going to send a lot of private businesses spiralling to | :46:04. | :46:08. | |
have a. These generalities are not accurate. | :46:08. | :46:13. | |
A teacher retiring on �32,000 a year will amass after they have | :46:13. | :46:18. | |
worked for 40 years a pension funds equivalent to �600,000. That is a | :46:18. | :46:25. | |
generality. I am not using this figure to counteract what Nia | :46:25. | :46:30. | |
Griffiths is saying. I want to say we should protect the contributions | :46:30. | :46:34. | |
of lowest earners and protect the worms are due to retire shortly. | :46:34. | :46:38. | |
Can we move on to the Autumn Statement? One of the headlines is | :46:38. | :46:43. | |
a new package of stimulus for small to medium-sized enterprises and a | :46:43. | :46:47. | |
loan guarantee from the government. Is that going to be enough, bearing | :46:47. | :46:52. | |
in mind that on average there are 1,200 people being made unemployed | :46:52. | :46:56. | |
everyday? The economy is in a very difficult | :46:56. | :47:01. | |
situation, in spite of the deficit reduction plans we have got. A | :47:01. | :47:05. | |
quarter of every penny spent on salaries of public sector workers, | :47:05. | :47:11. | |
a quarter of it is being borrowed, amounting to one of the �20 million | :47:11. | :47:21. | |
:47:21. | :47:24. | ||
a day on interest on the debt only. -- one under �20 million. It is | :47:24. | :47:28. | |
about trying to get confidence in the market and getting money out of | :47:28. | :47:33. | |
small businesses so they can plan and expand. It has to be taken into | :47:33. | :47:37. | |
account of the context of the wider economy around the world but | :47:37. | :47:40. | |
particularly what happens in the euro-zone because I wouldn't mind | :47:40. | :47:44. | |
betting some of the euro-zone countries won't be by Christmas. | :47:44. | :47:48. | |
This is similar to the loan guarantee scheme which Labour | :47:48. | :47:52. | |
announced back in 2008. We be supporting it? | :47:52. | :47:56. | |
We want to see measures like this coming forward. I worry it is too | :47:56. | :48:00. | |
little too late. The government has to make sure this lending to small | :48:01. | :48:06. | |
businesses happens. Edwina Hart in Wales has promised �55 million for | :48:06. | :48:10. | |
small businesses in Wales. We recognise the desperate need for | :48:10. | :48:13. | |
helping small businesses to help the private economy grow, to help | :48:14. | :48:18. | |
people create jobs. From the Chancellor we need larger measures | :48:18. | :48:22. | |
as well to increase public confidence. | :48:22. | :48:28. | |
We have to end it there, I am afraid. Nia Griffiths, Alun Cairns, | :48:28. | :48:32. | |
Thank you. So, the deal's been done, the Liberal Democrats have signed | :48:32. | :48:35. | |
up to the Welsh Government's budget. In return for Lib Dem support, | :48:35. | :48:38. | |
Labour have agreed to agreed to what's described as an economic | :48:38. | :48:41. | |
stimulus package to protect jobs and will spend an extra �20 million | :48:41. | :48:51. | |
on the country's poorer pupils. The Liberal Democrats said that a | :48:51. | :48:55. | |
proper funded people premium would be �40 million. As I understand it | :48:55. | :49:00. | |
and we have just had the announcement, this is a �20 million | :49:00. | :49:04. | |
announcement so this must be people premium light. | :49:04. | :49:07. | |
The Liberals can show they are doing something but the Labour | :49:07. | :49:10. | |
government has been spending the past six months condemning the | :49:10. | :49:14. | |
Liberals for their policies in London. Obviously, they needed a | :49:14. | :49:18. | |
partner and they have got one. But they have got one at a cheap price. | :49:19. | :49:23. | |
We didn't know what Plaid Cymru wanted for weeks. We understood | :49:23. | :49:29. | |
what they wanted in the end but it was too expensive. This is an | :49:29. | :49:33. | |
agreement to secure a budget for the people of Wales. It was done | :49:33. | :49:36. | |
after a lot of detailed negotiation and what is important is we can | :49:36. | :49:41. | |
look forward to securing the financial basis for Wales in the | :49:41. | :49:43. | |
year to come. And the Welsh Liberal Democrat | :49:43. | :49:48. | |
leader, Kirsty Williams, joins me now. | :49:48. | :49:53. | |
The people premium, as it is called, had a �40 million price tag | :49:53. | :49:57. | |
attached to it. This is not the people premium, therefore. | :49:57. | :50:01. | |
Of course, if the Welsh Liberal Democrats had won the election in | :50:01. | :50:06. | |
May, we could have implemented the policy in full. Let us be clear, | :50:06. | :50:10. | |
because of what we have been able to negotiate with the Labour Party, | :50:10. | :50:15. | |
the money is more than doubled to go to the poorest children. An | :50:15. | :50:19. | |
additional �20 million. A package of �32 million which will make a | :50:19. | :50:24. | |
difference to the children who are not reaching their full potential. | :50:24. | :50:28. | |
Only one in five of the children that receive free school meals go | :50:28. | :50:34. | |
on to get five good GCSEs including maths and English. If we are to | :50:34. | :50:38. | |
avoid the Welsh economy suffering in the decades to come, we have to | :50:38. | :50:41. | |
upscale our workforce. This is the beginning of that programme. | :50:41. | :50:46. | |
Transforming the chances. Under the people premium, the money, | :50:46. | :50:51. | |
as I understood it, followed the child through their education. Can | :50:51. | :50:54. | |
we take it for granted you have achieved a deal with the Labour | :50:55. | :51:00. | |
government that will see this money continuing beyond this year? | :51:00. | :51:05. | |
Obviously, the vote is on this year's budget. I am confident that | :51:05. | :51:09. | |
when the documents are published next week, we will see an ongoing | :51:09. | :51:13. | |
commitment to those poorest children. This money, you are right, | :51:13. | :51:17. | |
will follow the child whether they are in primary or secondary school | :51:17. | :51:21. | |
and will go directly to the schools, allowing head teachers and | :51:21. | :51:25. | |
classroom teachers to decide how best to support those children. | :51:25. | :51:30. | |
The money will have to continue, otherwise, if more teachers are | :51:30. | :51:32. | |
employed through the people premium, they will have to be made | :51:32. | :51:36. | |
unemployed? It would be an unwise government | :51:36. | :51:40. | |
who would take this money away from our poorest children, who need it | :51:41. | :51:45. | |
the most, so we can transform their chances and so that in years to | :51:45. | :51:50. | |
come we will not be looking at these terrible statistics. We know | :51:50. | :51:54. | |
that for years the Welsh economy has been based on cheap labour. We | :51:54. | :51:59. | |
can't compete on that basis any more because there will always be | :51:59. | :52:03. | |
countries in the Far East that will be cheaper. We need a prosperous | :52:03. | :52:07. | |
economy in future and unless we tackle the problems facing our | :52:07. | :52:11. | |
economy and put in place plans and policies to tackle some of this | :52:11. | :52:14. | |
structural problems in the Welsh economy, we will never see the | :52:14. | :52:24. | |
:52:24. | :52:25. | ||
country move forward. Why not plough all of this money | :52:25. | :52:29. | |
into a stimulus package? There is a stimulus package the | :52:29. | :52:34. | |
details of which will be announced tomorrow. �38 million coming down | :52:34. | :52:37. | |
from the Westminster government which will go into stimulating the | :52:37. | :52:44. | |
economy in the next months to come. It is important to be able to plan | :52:45. | :52:48. | |
for future generations. Otherwise, we will constantly have governments | :52:48. | :52:52. | |
struggling to deal with the here and now and Wales is rest -- is | :52:52. | :52:57. | |
poorer than the rest of the UK and it is incumbent on politicians to | :52:57. | :53:01. | |
put in place policies to insure that in future, our economy will be | :53:01. | :53:06. | |
in a stronger position to resist international economic crisis or | :53:06. | :53:10. | |
downturns in the economy. The politics of this might lead | :53:10. | :53:14. | |
someone to take the view that it is a relief for you to have an | :53:14. | :53:18. | |
association with read -- with Labour after a close working | :53:18. | :53:21. | |
relationships with your party and the Conservatives in Westminster? | :53:21. | :53:26. | |
It demonstrates that the Liberal Democrats are working to work with | :53:26. | :53:29. | |
other -- are willing to work with other political parties when the | :53:29. | :53:35. | |
country needs it. When we didn't have a majority at Westminster | :53:35. | :53:40. | |
level, we provided stability. Willing to work on the cheap | :53:40. | :53:43. | |
according to Plaid Cymru? There is something depressingly | :53:43. | :53:47. | |
predictable about the reaction of the other parties. It would have | :53:47. | :53:51. | |
been inconceivable for this country at this difficult time not to have | :53:51. | :53:56. | |
a budget that his past. We have played a part in that, providing | :53:56. | :54:00. | |
that stability and creating an economic stimulus package and | :54:00. | :54:03. | |
fulfilling our manifesto commitment to get resources to our poorest | :54:03. | :54:06. | |
students. Can we end of the sad news that the | :54:06. | :54:10. | |
first -- the Football Association of Wales have announced the death | :54:10. | :54:15. | |
of the national team manager, Gary Speed, at the age of 42. What is | :54:15. | :54:19. | |
your reaction to that sad news. It is a terrible, terrible shock | :54:19. | :54:24. | |
and a tragedy for his family and a tragedy for Welsh football. He has | :54:24. | :54:28. | |
only been manager for a fraught period of time but has made a big | :54:28. | :54:31. | |
impact. We have seen that some great results and people across | :54:31. | :54:36. | |
Wales will be very shocks today. Thank you. I am sure Alan year's | :54:36. | :54:38. |