20/11/2011 The Politics Show Wales

Here in Wales: The Archbishop of Wales accuses

bankers who take big bonuses of moral blindness and offers comfort

and warmth should there be protesters camped outside Llandaf

Cathedral. And are the days of the blogs

Apology for the loss of subtitles for 2347 seconds

Welcome to the Politics Show. Is there life in the Welsh blogosphere

and the latest from a Ynys Mon Council. The Archbishop of Wales

has joined the debate on the morality of big bonuses. He said

there was a moral blindness on bonuses and he would offer to keep

services going an offer warmth and security should they be protesters

outside Llandaff Cathedral. I went to meet the Archbishop of Wales at

his home in Llandaff. We discussed issues of morality and I began by

asking him if he believed the recent process Arie sign there is a

crusade against capitalism. It has been on the agenda for a very long

time. The issue of the bankers over the last couple of years is just

the tip of the iceberg. People are really asking, what are the real

values of our society? It is quite interesting, I think, that even the

banks have woken up to this. I was reading yesterday that the main

banks have decided there needs to be a code of ethics for bankers. If

they do not follow that code, they can be stripped of their jobs. It

was rather interesting they have reached a point. The Harvard

Business School has been commending that bankers and business people

should actually take the same kind of oath as doctors. That is where

the safeguard the interests of people they are serving. If they

break that oath, they are out. I think it is quite interesting that

all that is going on. I am not sure it is a simple debate about left or

right. I think it is about values and what really matters in society.

If you look at the word economics, it means Good Housekeeping. As a

household, if you do not treat every member with respect and say,

I will respect those who were affluent and they do not care what

the rest, that is going to wreck the house told. The same thing is

true in the country. St Paul's has been in focus in recent weeks. Can

I quote you some of the things that have been said? It has been said,

you got it wrong. It has been said, it was hasty to close the cathedral.

The Canon of Leicester said, St Paul's should be keeping its doors

open all night so protesters can shelter from the cold. What do you

think? It is easier when you are on the outside to condemn decisions

that are made in the heat of the moment. I would hope if this were

to happen outside cathedral -- Llandaff Cathedral, I would hope we

would keep the services going, keep the cathedral open, even though we

might have to triple the people to get in there. I hope they would

understand it stands there as a place of worship, as a blaze of

dialogue, and they would be welcome to come in. I would hope the doors

would remain open. -- a place of dialogue. Would you give them

security overnight? Yes. The cathedral is heated in the winter.

It is easy for me to say this. I would hope if people wanted to make

peaceful protests and that did not disrupt the life of the cathedral

as far as worship is concerned, we would be as accommodating as

possible. Should the Church be claiming ordination gives you a

privileged insight into solving the financial crisis? Not a soul. He

does not at all. But what I think it does do is enable you to ask

what are the values we ought to have. What is important for

individuals and the country. It is interesting that businesses use

spiritual language. We talk about their mission, they talk about the

spare -- spirituality of business. They borrowed them from the church.

It is very interesting there is an institute in Australia, the son

James's Institute, that says everyone making a decision in

business should ask himself, would I be happy for this to be on the

record? What would happen if everybody did this? What would

happen if people do this to me? If all of us asked those questions

before we to decisions, we might come to very different ways of

doing things. You say that ordination -- ordination does not

give you that privilege. The Archbishop of Canterbury has said

he is in favour of the Robin Hood tax. Is that not stepping on that

territory? No. What he is saying, I think, he is expressing a personal

opinion. I do not think he would claim he is an economist. He is a

theologian. The job of anybody who is ordained is to ask difficult

questions. He is asking the right moral questions. He is suggesting

we have got it wrong, where you have got extreme poverty on the one

hand and extreme riches on the other. For example, the bankers in

2011, in January this year, awarded themselves �7 billion in bonuses.

That is after nearly two main banks went to the wall. There is

something wrong there. There is a moral blind us there. We have seen

the anti-capitalist movement moved to Cardiff in recent days. Are you

in favour of such widespread protest like this? As long as

people are not violent and as long as they express their views and as

long as they did attract elements that are there for the hell of it,

yes, I am. How else do people make their feelings known? What would

you say to those who, to coin a phrase from the financial word,

that the churches overtrading on that this matter? It is stepping

beyond what is acceptable for the Church to be voicing its opinion

on? It's an extension of the argument that religion or to keep

out of politics. Politics is the way we run our society and

therefore there are moral questions it. It seems to me that believing

in God means everyone of us is made in the image of God and if that is

true, the way that people are treated by institutions is a matter

for the Christian faith. On another issue of morality, organ donation.

We have heard the plans from the Welsh government. You have voice

your concerns in the past that the plans in the new government have

announced are no different to the plans which were announced by the

previous government. I suppose the question is, what next for you?

would not want to be seen as leading some kind of campaign. My

job was to raise moral questions about the proposed legislation and

the road -- and the proposed legislation has now been put into a

white paper. It is up for consultation. I hope there will be

widespread discussion about this because they really do think this

is a moral issue. Presumed consent is the wrong way to go, I think. It

takes away individual rides. I know it it is an emotive subject. --

individual rights. We need more organ donors but the way to do that

is to encourage more people to give their organs rather than to say, if

you have not opted out, then the state will use your organs.

Charities in this field are claiming presumed content --

consent would increase the number of donations. Some people would say

there is a contradiction between what you are saying on one hand and

then being the Archbishop of Wales, who would want to see as many

people getting better as possible? Absolutely. I carry an organ donor

card myself. That is not the issue. It is the way they set about it.

The evidence is more ambiguous than they think. Israel has presumed

consent. The number of organ donations have not increased. It is

rather interesting, I think, that organ donations in Wales over the

last two years have increased by 66%. That is more than any other

part of the UK, according to research by the University of

Ulster. I think there are other ways of going about it. Spain, 10

years after it had presumed consent, did not have any more organ

donations. Once it set up a new translation -- transplantation Unit,

more organs became available. Do you think people need to be better

educated on this matter? Some doctors have said there are a

shortage of critical care beds in Wales. Do you have concerns in that

field? Yes. I think my main concern is to raise his moral question

about presumed consent. Is this the right way for any government to go?

It is not consent, they are assuming that if you have not opted

out, the organs become a state organs. I know the White Paper says

they will take family views into consideration but that is very

vague. What does that actually mean? Do you believe that to be a

case? That the Government will take the family's word as the final

word? A did not say that in the White Paper. It says it will take

their views into consideration. It does not say what ever the family

decides, even if these people have not opted out, we will take the

family's side. It does not say that. There needs to be greater clarity

about that. We have to have promises, in the legislation, to

say that if the family really reject -- object, it will not

happen. There is another moral issue here. Imagine somebody who is

obviously dying, who has not opted to give organs, Elise the doctors

can say to the family, this is a terrible tragedy for you but some

good can come out of it. The organs of your father could be used by

other people. Would you be willing to do that? There is a world of

difference between that scenario and the scenario of doctors saying,

I'm sorry, your father has not opted out. We have to take his

organs. It is a totally different scene, it seems to me. Thank you.

That was the Archbishop of Wales. The Leveson Inquiry into press

standards is casting an eye over the blogosphere and considering

whether there is any way of regulating blogs and news websites.

Are a difficult task but even if it were desirable, will there be many

blogs left to police in a couple of years' time? Have they lost much of

their appeal as other social media have become more dominant?

Half a decade ago, blogs seemed to be everywhere on the internet.

Anyone who was anyone had a blog. Journalists would be scanning them

on a daily basis. Now blogs are a bit more thin on the ground.

think it is a very weak creature compared to what it was four years

ago. In 2007, the Welsh blogosphere was vibrant. It was feeding into

the political discourse. People were blogging right, left and

centre. I look out there now and I see very little remaining. There

are a few interesting blogs that still exist but actually they are

not a daily must read. That is the editor of Wales home. Twitter, the

Social media of choice for many politicians and journalists, has

cut the blogs down to size. Yet they still have a role. This man

blogs in Welsh. You are getting two levels. You're getting Twitter for

the short instant doors, the breaking news stories, and then the

more considered stuff is still there on the box. Blogs only came

on the scene five years ago and may have changed so much. Where we are

heading, who knows. Blogs almost seemed a bit old-fashioned. Yes.

What you see is a shakedown. When blogs started, it was possible for

people who were not connected to news organisations to build a big

sides with big followings very quickly. -- sites. Those have

tailed off now. The big boards are now are the ones that tend to be

attached to other media outlets or attached to political parties or

particular thought groups. One of the appeals of blogs is their

freedom. This week we learned that Leveson Inquiry will also consider

regulating blogs. What does a veteran blogger make of that? This

man has been active for eight years. You do have recourse to the law.

Bloggs's in Britain are subject to libel laws. They are subject to

other laws. -- bloggers. Someone on Facebook has been prosecuted. They

are trying to edit the Continent when you can move the block to

another provider, even in Russia or China, how do you follow that? --

move the blog. How do you regularly the anonymous is one of the first

big questions. Generally, the sites that need regulation are anonymous.

I spend a lot of my time working on a website and we are very, very

careful, not just in the articles but in terms of Commons, because

ultimately there our libel laws which can be used against people

who publish certain types of material. I think there is a legal

set-up that already exists. It is easy to forget the law of the

land applies to social media. the MPs were fiddling their

expenses, three Labour MPs went before the court. I was just on the

point of saying something quite humorous about that fact and I

suddenly realise, good God, that would be contempt of court. You

have to think very carefully. There is a kind of... There is an

attraction to say almost anything. But you have to think about it.

pace of change in social media has been breathtaking. Who knows what

it will look like in five years? One fairly safe bet is the long arm

of the British law is likely to be the only formal regulation reaching

into the blogosphere any time soon. BBC Wales understands the county

council elections on Anglesey are likely to be postponed for 12

months because of a review of the council's selectorial boundaries.

Elections across Wales will be held in May. Our correspondent joins us

now. What has been announced -- what is being announced? We will

get the announcement of draft proposals by the Boundary

Commission, affecting the number of Air pictorial world -- electoral

wards. There are draft proposals tomorrow. That goes on, an

opportunity for the public to air their views until the end of

January. The commission then reviews those responses, prepares

its final proposals, submits those to the minister some time in March.

This is far more than a small story. This process is part of the encore

Un process to try and get democracy to mean something. -- ongoing

process. This story has profound political implications for the

electorate of Anglesey. How does that affect the timing of

elections? Elections do not happen overnight. There is a process of

preparation, the register has to be prepared. If you do not know for

certain what the wards are going to be, the number of people living in

the ward, it is very difficult to prepare for the register. The work

to plan for the election would normally staff at the beginning of

next month and it looks highly problematic -- normally start. They

do not look like they will be held in May. The likelihood is they will

be held -- deferred for 12 months. That is what I asked the Leader of

the Labour group. I asked him if he foresaw a elections happening. This

is what he said. I do not think so. They will be very difficult, I

would imagine, because of the timescale involved. The local

authority has to get the electoral list out by December of this year

in order to get the elections in May. I do not think currently that

will be possible because we do not know what the new boundaries are

going to be. It is important to remember anglers

the council is subject to what they call special measures, the

authority is being run by commissioners appointed by the

local government, the whole object of this exercise was to bring

democratic renewal to the island in terms of the age profile and so