20/11/2011 The Politics Show Wales


Jon Sopel and Aled ap Dafydd with analysis of the political scene shaping Wales.

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Here in Wales: The Archbishop of Wales accuses


bankers who take big bonuses of moral blindness and offers comfort


and warmth should there be protesters camped outside Llandaf


Cathedral. And are the days of the blogs


Apology for the loss of subtitles for 2347 seconds


Welcome to the Politics Show. Is there life in the Welsh blogosphere


and the latest from a Ynys Mon Council. The Archbishop of Wales


has joined the debate on the morality of big bonuses. He said


there was a moral blindness on bonuses and he would offer to keep


services going an offer warmth and security should they be protesters


outside Llandaff Cathedral. I went to meet the Archbishop of Wales at


his home in Llandaff. We discussed issues of morality and I began by


asking him if he believed the recent process Arie sign there is a


crusade against capitalism. It has been on the agenda for a very long


time. The issue of the bankers over the last couple of years is just


the tip of the iceberg. People are really asking, what are the real


values of our society? It is quite interesting, I think, that even the


banks have woken up to this. I was reading yesterday that the main


banks have decided there needs to be a code of ethics for bankers. If


they do not follow that code, they can be stripped of their jobs. It


was rather interesting they have reached a point. The Harvard


Business School has been commending that bankers and business people


should actually take the same kind of oath as doctors. That is where


the safeguard the interests of people they are serving. If they


break that oath, they are out. I think it is quite interesting that


all that is going on. I am not sure it is a simple debate about left or


right. I think it is about values and what really matters in society.


If you look at the word economics, it means Good Housekeeping. As a


household, if you do not treat every member with respect and say,


I will respect those who were affluent and they do not care what


the rest, that is going to wreck the house told. The same thing is


true in the country. St Paul's has been in focus in recent weeks. Can


I quote you some of the things that have been said? It has been said,


you got it wrong. It has been said, it was hasty to close the cathedral.


The Canon of Leicester said, St Paul's should be keeping its doors


open all night so protesters can shelter from the cold. What do you


think? It is easier when you are on the outside to condemn decisions


that are made in the heat of the moment. I would hope if this were


to happen outside cathedral -- Llandaff Cathedral, I would hope we


would keep the services going, keep the cathedral open, even though we


might have to triple the people to get in there. I hope they would


understand it stands there as a place of worship, as a blaze of


dialogue, and they would be welcome to come in. I would hope the doors


would remain open. -- a place of dialogue. Would you give them


security overnight? Yes. The cathedral is heated in the winter.


It is easy for me to say this. I would hope if people wanted to make


peaceful protests and that did not disrupt the life of the cathedral


as far as worship is concerned, we would be as accommodating as


possible. Should the Church be claiming ordination gives you a


privileged insight into solving the financial crisis? Not a soul. He


does not at all. But what I think it does do is enable you to ask


what are the values we ought to have. What is important for


individuals and the country. It is interesting that businesses use


spiritual language. We talk about their mission, they talk about the


spare -- spirituality of business. They borrowed them from the church.


It is very interesting there is an institute in Australia, the son


James's Institute, that says everyone making a decision in


business should ask himself, would I be happy for this to be on the


record? What would happen if everybody did this? What would


happen if people do this to me? If all of us asked those questions


before we to decisions, we might come to very different ways of


doing things. You say that ordination -- ordination does not


give you that privilege. The Archbishop of Canterbury has said


he is in favour of the Robin Hood tax. Is that not stepping on that


territory? No. What he is saying, I think, he is expressing a personal


opinion. I do not think he would claim he is an economist. He is a


theologian. The job of anybody who is ordained is to ask difficult


questions. He is asking the right moral questions. He is suggesting


we have got it wrong, where you have got extreme poverty on the one


hand and extreme riches on the other. For example, the bankers in


2011, in January this year, awarded themselves �7 billion in bonuses.


That is after nearly two main banks went to the wall. There is


something wrong there. There is a moral blind us there. We have seen


the anti-capitalist movement moved to Cardiff in recent days. Are you


in favour of such widespread protest like this? As long as


people are not violent and as long as they express their views and as


long as they did attract elements that are there for the hell of it,


yes, I am. How else do people make their feelings known? What would


you say to those who, to coin a phrase from the financial word,


that the churches overtrading on that this matter? It is stepping


beyond what is acceptable for the Church to be voicing its opinion


on? It's an extension of the argument that religion or to keep


out of politics. Politics is the way we run our society and


therefore there are moral questions it. It seems to me that believing


in God means everyone of us is made in the image of God and if that is


true, the way that people are treated by institutions is a matter


for the Christian faith. On another issue of morality, organ donation.


We have heard the plans from the Welsh government. You have voice


your concerns in the past that the plans in the new government have


announced are no different to the plans which were announced by the


previous government. I suppose the question is, what next for you?


would not want to be seen as leading some kind of campaign. My


job was to raise moral questions about the proposed legislation and


the road -- and the proposed legislation has now been put into a


white paper. It is up for consultation. I hope there will be


widespread discussion about this because they really do think this


is a moral issue. Presumed consent is the wrong way to go, I think. It


takes away individual rides. I know it it is an emotive subject. --


individual rights. We need more organ donors but the way to do that


is to encourage more people to give their organs rather than to say, if


you have not opted out, then the state will use your organs.


Charities in this field are claiming presumed content --


consent would increase the number of donations. Some people would say


there is a contradiction between what you are saying on one hand and


then being the Archbishop of Wales, who would want to see as many


people getting better as possible? Absolutely. I carry an organ donor


card myself. That is not the issue. It is the way they set about it.


The evidence is more ambiguous than they think. Israel has presumed


consent. The number of organ donations have not increased. It is


rather interesting, I think, that organ donations in Wales over the


last two years have increased by 66%. That is more than any other


part of the UK, according to research by the University of


Ulster. I think there are other ways of going about it. Spain, 10


years after it had presumed consent, did not have any more organ


donations. Once it set up a new translation -- transplantation Unit,


more organs became available. Do you think people need to be better


educated on this matter? Some doctors have said there are a


shortage of critical care beds in Wales. Do you have concerns in that


field? Yes. I think my main concern is to raise his moral question


about presumed consent. Is this the right way for any government to go?


It is not consent, they are assuming that if you have not opted


out, the organs become a state organs. I know the White Paper says


they will take family views into consideration but that is very


vague. What does that actually mean? Do you believe that to be a


case? That the Government will take the family's word as the final


word? A did not say that in the White Paper. It says it will take


their views into consideration. It does not say what ever the family


decides, even if these people have not opted out, we will take the


family's side. It does not say that. There needs to be greater clarity


about that. We have to have promises, in the legislation, to


say that if the family really reject -- object, it will not


happen. There is another moral issue here. Imagine somebody who is


obviously dying, who has not opted to give organs, Elise the doctors


can say to the family, this is a terrible tragedy for you but some


good can come out of it. The organs of your father could be used by


other people. Would you be willing to do that? There is a world of


difference between that scenario and the scenario of doctors saying,


I'm sorry, your father has not opted out. We have to take his


organs. It is a totally different scene, it seems to me. Thank you.


That was the Archbishop of Wales. The Leveson Inquiry into press


standards is casting an eye over the blogosphere and considering


whether there is any way of regulating blogs and news websites.


Are a difficult task but even if it were desirable, will there be many


blogs left to police in a couple of years' time? Have they lost much of


their appeal as other social media have become more dominant?


Half a decade ago, blogs seemed to be everywhere on the internet.


Anyone who was anyone had a blog. Journalists would be scanning them


on a daily basis. Now blogs are a bit more thin on the ground.


think it is a very weak creature compared to what it was four years


ago. In 2007, the Welsh blogosphere was vibrant. It was feeding into


the political discourse. People were blogging right, left and


centre. I look out there now and I see very little remaining. There


are a few interesting blogs that still exist but actually they are


not a daily must read. That is the editor of Wales home. Twitter, the


Social media of choice for many politicians and journalists, has


cut the blogs down to size. Yet they still have a role. This man


blogs in Welsh. You are getting two levels. You're getting Twitter for


the short instant doors, the breaking news stories, and then the


more considered stuff is still there on the box. Blogs only came


on the scene five years ago and may have changed so much. Where we are


heading, who knows. Blogs almost seemed a bit old-fashioned. Yes.


What you see is a shakedown. When blogs started, it was possible for


people who were not connected to news organisations to build a big


sides with big followings very quickly. -- sites. Those have


tailed off now. The big boards are now are the ones that tend to be


attached to other media outlets or attached to political parties or


particular thought groups. One of the appeals of blogs is their


freedom. This week we learned that Leveson Inquiry will also consider


regulating blogs. What does a veteran blogger make of that? This


man has been active for eight years. You do have recourse to the law.


Bloggs's in Britain are subject to libel laws. They are subject to


other laws. -- bloggers. Someone on Facebook has been prosecuted. They


are trying to edit the Continent when you can move the block to


another provider, even in Russia or China, how do you follow that? --


move the blog. How do you regularly the anonymous is one of the first


big questions. Generally, the sites that need regulation are anonymous.


I spend a lot of my time working on a website and we are very, very


careful, not just in the articles but in terms of Commons, because


ultimately there our libel laws which can be used against people


who publish certain types of material. I think there is a legal


set-up that already exists. It is easy to forget the law of the


land applies to social media. the MPs were fiddling their


expenses, three Labour MPs went before the court. I was just on the


point of saying something quite humorous about that fact and I


suddenly realise, good God, that would be contempt of court. You


have to think very carefully. There is a kind of... There is an


attraction to say almost anything. But you have to think about it.


pace of change in social media has been breathtaking. Who knows what


it will look like in five years? One fairly safe bet is the long arm


of the British law is likely to be the only formal regulation reaching


into the blogosphere any time soon. BBC Wales understands the county


council elections on Anglesey are likely to be postponed for 12


months because of a review of the council's selectorial boundaries.


Elections across Wales will be held in May. Our correspondent joins us


now. What has been announced -- what is being announced? We will


get the announcement of draft proposals by the Boundary


Commission, affecting the number of Air pictorial world -- electoral


wards. There are draft proposals tomorrow. That goes on, an


opportunity for the public to air their views until the end of


January. The commission then reviews those responses, prepares


its final proposals, submits those to the minister some time in March.


This is far more than a small story. This process is part of the encore


Un process to try and get democracy to mean something. -- ongoing


process. This story has profound political implications for the


electorate of Anglesey. How does that affect the timing of


elections? Elections do not happen overnight. There is a process of


preparation, the register has to be prepared. If you do not know for


certain what the wards are going to be, the number of people living in


the ward, it is very difficult to prepare for the register. The work


to plan for the election would normally staff at the beginning of


next month and it looks highly problematic -- normally start. They


do not look like they will be held in May. The likelihood is they will


be held -- deferred for 12 months. That is what I asked the Leader of


the Labour group. I asked him if he foresaw a elections happening. This


is what he said. I do not think so. They will be very difficult, I


would imagine, because of the timescale involved. The local


authority has to get the electoral list out by December of this year


in order to get the elections in May. I do not think currently that


will be possible because we do not know what the new boundaries are


going to be. It is important to remember anglers


the council is subject to what they call special measures, the


authority is being run by commissioners appointed by the


local government, the whole object of this exercise was to bring


democratic renewal to the island in terms of the age profile and so


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