Browse content similar to 16/10/2011. Check below for episodes and series from the same categories and more!
Line | From | To | |
---|---|---|---|
What does Liam Fox's departure In the Midlands, the planning a | :00:44. | :00:52. | |
people's causing problems for the Government. Is it a developer is a | :00:52. | :00:58. | |
free fall in our green and pleasant land? And who runs our country, we | :00:58. | :01:08. | |
:01:08. | :01:08. | ||
Apology for the loss of subtitles for 1486 seconds | :01:08. | :25:54. | |
Hello again from the Midlands, where we will be asking, who runs | :25:54. | :25:59. | |
the country, the judges or the politicians? First some concrete | :25:59. | :26:04. | |
proposals for the Midland's countryside. Opponents of the | :26:04. | :26:07. | |
Government's planning proposals belief our green spaces are at risk | :26:07. | :26:13. | |
from those desperate to get the economy moving again. On the other | :26:13. | :26:18. | |
hand, planning regulations are often described as bureaucratic. | :26:18. | :26:28. | |
:26:28. | :26:30. | ||
James Morris is the representative for Lyme Regis. The newly-appointed | :26:30. | :26:34. | |
shadow housing minister and for the Liberal Democrats, the Shropshire | :26:35. | :26:39. | |
county councillor, have a kid. She is also a member of the Shropshire | :26:39. | :26:48. | |
hills board. After a week in which unemployment in our part of the | :26:48. | :26:51. | |
country was confirmed that almost 9%, with a relaxation of the | :26:51. | :26:57. | |
planning laws help the construction industry get us back to work? Our | :26:57. | :27:02. | |
environment correspondent has been to Warwickshire to investigate. | :27:02. | :27:07. | |
Baddesley Clinton in Warwickshire, built in the 15th century. Now, | :27:07. | :27:11. | |
famously, this is a National Trust property with a moat, to protect | :27:11. | :27:16. | |
those inside from attack. But these days, it is the National Trust that | :27:16. | :27:20. | |
is on the offensive. And amongst the cream teas and gentle | :27:20. | :27:24. | |
conversation, rebellion against the coalition Government's plans for | :27:24. | :27:28. | |
planning. How many signatures have you got? We have had over 3,000 | :27:28. | :27:33. | |
signatures here alone and across the trust as a whole we know we are | :27:33. | :27:38. | |
pushing 150,000, already. We are really concerned about the national | :27:38. | :27:41. | |
planning policy framework, this draft that has come out. We are | :27:41. | :27:45. | |
worried about the presumption in favour of economic growth above | :27:45. | :27:49. | |
everything else. Making an enemy of the National Trust to spot some | :27:49. | :27:54. | |
debate at the Tory party conference. He will not be surprised to learn | :27:54. | :28:00. | |
that me and Mrs Pickles are partial to the odd scone and a warm | :28:00. | :28:05. | |
beverage in the National Trust tea Room. But the planning system needs | :28:05. | :28:11. | |
to be improved. There are businesses out there desperate to | :28:11. | :28:14. | |
expand, to hire thousands of people, but they are stuck in the mud of | :28:14. | :28:18. | |
our planning system. We will be opened to constructive ideas about | :28:18. | :28:23. | |
how to get this right, but to those who oppose everything we do, my | :28:23. | :28:27. | |
message is take your arguments down to the JobCentre, because we are | :28:27. | :28:33. | |
going to get Britain back to work. Britain is not building at the | :28:33. | :28:37. | |
moment. The Government points out that housebuilding alone is that | :28:37. | :28:42. | |
it's the lowest level since the 1920s. They argue that red tape is | :28:42. | :28:47. | |
stopping a development led a surge back to work. You cannot assume | :28:47. | :28:53. | |
that 3,000 ft of offices would take approximately 3,000 people, | :28:53. | :28:58. | |
therefore it is 3,000 jobs, simple as that. Half-an-hour down the road, | :28:58. | :29:02. | |
this development has been going through the planning process for | :29:02. | :29:07. | |
two and a half years. What is wrong with the process? It is far too | :29:07. | :29:12. | |
complicated, 1,200 pages of planning legislation originally | :29:12. | :29:18. | |
created in 1948 and added on to ever since. Interestingly, the 1948 | :29:18. | :29:21. | |
of planning acts had a presumption in favour of development, it was | :29:21. | :29:25. | |
just after the war, when we required development. Therefore, it | :29:25. | :29:29. | |
does require massive overhaul. But it is to be applauded, there are | :29:30. | :29:35. | |
criticisms of it, but overall it has to be applauded. | :29:35. | :29:38. | |
Government's plans have not only alienated the National Trust, call | :29:38. | :29:43. | |
Conservative voters are unhappy. Even the Daily Telegraph is against | :29:43. | :29:46. | |
this move, mounting a campaign and saying the Conservative Party is | :29:46. | :29:50. | |
paying too much attention to developers who donate to party | :29:50. | :29:55. | |
funds. It is fair to say that I am a supporter of the Tory party and | :29:55. | :30:00. | |
therefore, personally, I do give a small amount of money to the Tory | :30:00. | :30:04. | |
party. No different to what any other individual would to | :30:04. | :30:09. | |
supporting a political party. the Government's plans are well on | :30:09. | :30:12. | |
and four councillors on the ground of any political flavour, there is | :30:12. | :30:17. | |
another problem. 46% of councils say they will have no core strategy | :30:17. | :30:22. | |
in place before the new proposals arrive. According to one | :30:22. | :30:26. | |
campaigning group, that will leave them vulnerable to poor quality | :30:26. | :30:30. | |
proposals. It worries me that so many things have not been given his | :30:30. | :30:33. | |
huge amount of thought, they appeared to be put together with | :30:33. | :30:37. | |
the idea to promote the economy, which is fine, no problem with that. | :30:37. | :30:43. | |
But the economy is a number of things, not just development. | :30:43. | :30:47. | |
prepared councils, alienated core voters and angry demands for action | :30:47. | :30:53. | |
on red tape, Baddesley Clinton has not seen a battle like it. | :30:53. | :30:59. | |
It certainly has not. So, is this a charter for the developers story | :30:59. | :31:03. | |
read back to the regeneration of the economy? There is more about | :31:03. | :31:09. | |
this on my blog. Let us begin with the shadow housing minister, | :31:09. | :31:12. | |
obviously the developer there in Warwick blames the red tape that | :31:12. | :31:15. | |
was heaped upon them by your government, principally, for | :31:15. | :31:19. | |
getting in the way or possibly 3,000 jobs, there. Nonsense, the | :31:19. | :31:24. | |
problem in terms of its economic growth is not the planning system, | :31:24. | :31:28. | |
it is the mismanagement of the economy. 1,200 pages in the | :31:28. | :31:34. | |
planning legislation, you can see the case for a delay there. What | :31:34. | :31:37. | |
happened was that for 60 years we had a planning system which has | :31:37. | :31:42. | |
sought to reconcile growth and development. We desperately need | :31:42. | :31:46. | |
that with a real say for local people and protection of the | :31:46. | :31:50. | |
natural environment. What has happened is a lobby, limbs to the | :31:50. | :31:53. | |
Conservative Party, have worked together with the Treasury to push | :31:54. | :32:00. | |
an agenda to build any place, any time. Let me give you an example, | :32:00. | :32:04. | |
we had a presumption in favour of brownfield development, they tour | :32:04. | :32:11. | |
that up in favour of building anywhere, am why? Because they have | :32:11. | :32:16. | |
said it is cheaper to build on greenfield land. I will come on to | :32:16. | :32:20. | |
that in a moment. However, first of all, the county councils have to | :32:20. | :32:29. | |
get their plans to get the one size fits all thing imposed on them by a | :32:29. | :32:33. | |
Government. Are you going to have your plan in order in time in | :32:33. | :32:38. | |
Shropshire? It is in place. Actually, we are ahead of the game. | :32:38. | :32:44. | |
Although I am in opposition, I must applaud the plan that is in place, | :32:44. | :32:49. | |
it has engaged parish councils, we do have evidence behind what people | :32:50. | :32:53. | |
want and mostly, it is about housing Lowes will people -- local | :32:53. | :32:59. | |
people across Shropshire. I think other councils will be terribly | :32:59. | :33:04. | |
vulnerable and really ought to have got their act together. It is not | :33:04. | :33:08. | |
just Jack that is worried about this link with the Conservative | :33:08. | :33:14. | |
Party. From my blog at a reply says localism up my for it, these plans | :33:14. | :33:20. | |
are biased towards developers. It is not a local agenda, it is just | :33:20. | :33:24. | |
big business. I think that is nonsense. We have got to focus on | :33:24. | :33:28. | |
what we are trying to solve with this policy. We have got very low | :33:29. | :33:32. | |
levels of housebuilding in this country, inherited from the | :33:32. | :33:36. | |
previous government, the lowest level since the 1920s. This policy | :33:36. | :33:46. | |
is about driving growth in a balanced way. It is a balanced | :33:46. | :33:50. | |
policy by giving local people more say about how they housing is | :33:50. | :33:58. | |
developed. We never heard plans, there will still be -- with the | :33:58. | :34:03. | |
neighbourhood plans, they will still be subject to planning rules. | :34:03. | :34:07. | |
When we have already got many of these plans which are evidence | :34:07. | :34:11. | |
based in place, a development is not just about the policy issue, it | :34:12. | :34:15. | |
is about quality and having enough money in the system to build the | :34:15. | :34:21. | |
houses. When people cannot get mortgages and when developers, and | :34:21. | :34:24. | |
also housing associations, are struggling to develop on the ground, | :34:24. | :34:28. | |
it is not going to happen. There are 97,000 planning permissions | :34:28. | :34:32. | |
already granted in the West Midlands, so what is the problem? | :34:33. | :34:35. | |
That is exactly right. There is enough land with planning | :34:35. | :34:40. | |
permission to build 300,000 homes already. The problem is that the | :34:40. | :34:48. | |
economy and the mortgage market, why have your government torn-up | :34:48. | :34:54. | |
the Bramfield first presumption? There is enough Bramfield had to | :34:54. | :35:03. | |
build 1.2 million homes. I am very confused about his position. He has | :35:03. | :35:09. | |
been arguing for the bringing back of policies that have came up with | :35:09. | :35:16. | |
incorrect numbers. Developers want the freedom to build on green field | :35:16. | :35:21. | |
because it is cheaper. We inherited from you the lowest level of house | :35:21. | :35:25. | |
building since the 1920s. That is a crisis, there are millions of | :35:25. | :35:29. | |
people who cannot get on the housing ladder, there are problems | :35:29. | :35:33. | |
with social housing that we need to tackle. I want to move on from that | :35:33. | :35:36. | |
very important point to a particularly difficult balance that | :35:36. | :35:40. | |
you have to strike in rural areas like Shropshire where, obviously, | :35:40. | :35:45. | |
you want to keep the local economy there the sustainable on one hand, | :35:45. | :35:51. | |
but in other areas you have outstanding beauty, how do we | :35:51. | :35:55. | |
achieve that balance of preserving the BT while allowing the Community | :35:55. | :35:59. | |
to develop? For several days we have had a policy of only allowing | :35:59. | :36:04. | |
small numbers of houses to be built at any one time in the villages. It | :36:04. | :36:08. | |
means that a villages remain vital, children are produced for schools, | :36:08. | :36:15. | |
although it is not quick enough, but the plan for the area of | :36:15. | :36:21. | |
outstanding natural beauty has worked. We do have to, 4, 6 houses | :36:21. | :36:30. | |
being built. How would you respond to the need for that balance? | :36:30. | :36:35. | |
for certain, but a real say for local people and protection of the | :36:35. | :36:39. | |
natural environment, and for the Government to stop pretending that | :36:39. | :36:44. | |
the problem of housing is planning, when it is not. This new framework | :36:44. | :36:48. | |
for talks very clearly about sustainable development, a balance | :36:48. | :36:51. | |
between economic development and preserving the environment. That is | :36:51. | :36:55. | |
still at the heart of the Government's planning policy. | :36:55. | :37:05. | |
:37:05. | :37:07. | ||
So, who exactly is in charge here? The politicians or the lawyer's? | :37:07. | :37:12. | |
Only last month, Stoke-on-Trent City Council gave up on its plans | :37:12. | :37:16. | |
to cut services for deaf children because of threats of legal | :37:16. | :37:23. | |
challenges. Last year there was an epic encounter turf with a council | :37:23. | :37:32. | |
on the education department. Now, within the next few days, another | :37:32. | :37:35. | |
High Court judge will rule whether Gloucestershire County Council | :37:35. | :37:39. | |
broke the law by withdrawing funding from 10 local libraries. | :37:39. | :37:44. | |
That legal challenge follows a storm of protest over the council's | :37:44. | :37:49. | |
plans for the community to take them over, while the authority's | :37:49. | :37:58. | |
local leader needs to save millions of pounds. It is a recognition that | :37:58. | :38:03. | |
the authority is facing some really tough challenges. The second issue, | :38:03. | :38:07. | |
as I understand it, is that we have been given the green light to | :38:07. | :38:11. | |
continue talking to communities and those putting their business cases | :38:11. | :38:15. | |
forward. This series of legal challenges has left us wondering | :38:15. | :38:19. | |
who is really in charge, who is running the country, politicians or | :38:19. | :38:24. | |
lawyers? During the week I sat down with Phil Shiner, the senior | :38:24. | :38:28. | |
partner at the Birmingham-based Public Interest Lawyers. They are | :38:28. | :38:33. | |
taking on Gloucestershire County Council. I asked him what he would | :38:33. | :38:36. | |
say to council leaders like Mark Hawthorne? Local authorities, like | :38:36. | :38:41. | |
all of us, have to obey the law. They have got clear legal duties, | :38:41. | :38:46. | |
whether it is under the libraries and museums act, or the Equality | :38:46. | :38:54. | |
Act. They have got a duty to consult with the public property -- | :38:54. | :38:59. | |
public properly, before they cut services like libraries. Another | :38:59. | :39:02. | |
case came up in the summer in Stoke on Trent, where the council | :39:02. | :39:06. | |
identified the teaching of children with hearing difficulties in | :39:06. | :39:10. | |
schools as an area where budgets needed to be cut, but they backed | :39:10. | :39:14. | |
off even under the threat of a legal challenge, because they | :39:14. | :39:21. | |
thought it was too big of a brisker to contemplate. Is this a case of a | :39:21. | :39:25. | |
democratically elected council being dictated to by the lawyers? | :39:25. | :39:29. | |
The lawyers wouldn't see it like that. They would see it that a | :39:29. | :39:34. | |
group of parents, or members of the community, identified that there is | :39:34. | :39:39. | |
going to be a breach of the law and if that means that that particular | :39:39. | :39:42. | |
local authority backed off what would otherwise have been an | :39:42. | :39:47. | |
unlawful decision, that is what the law is there for. We know that | :39:47. | :39:53. | |
earlier this year a judicial review went against the way the Government | :39:53. | :39:59. | |
had decided to scrap the building of new schools in the future but | :39:59. | :40:05. | |
surely this is another example of a democratically elected government | :40:05. | :40:11. | |
introducing a policy and then the lawyers parking their tanks on the | :40:11. | :40:15. | |
Government's lawn. I we get this political posturing. The | :40:15. | :40:19. | |
politicians seem to want it both ways, they want to mouth off about | :40:19. | :40:23. | |
what a great democracy we live in and a fundamental commitment to the | :40:23. | :40:29. | |
rule of law, and do not lose sight of the fact that if we as a society | :40:29. | :40:34. | |
a lose that commitment, we are in big trouble. We know that your firm | :40:34. | :40:38. | |
is involved in the case of tuition fees in Scotland, which have caused | :40:38. | :40:41. | |
give it a significantly worse deal to students from England, compared | :40:41. | :40:47. | |
with anywhere else in the EU. I gather that that is a pre- cursor t | :40:47. | :40:53. | |
something on an even bigger scale? Yes, it is. We have a big case at | :40:53. | :40:57. | |
the High Court in London, where we are acting for two students who are | :40:57. | :41:02. | |
challenging the decision just before Christmas of 2010, to raise | :41:02. | :41:10. | |
the cap to �9,000. If we win, the Government will be told that the | :41:11. | :41:19. | |
decision to raise the cap to �9,000 breaches fundamental human rights | :41:19. | :41:21. | |
provisions and heard the poorer members of up our society who | :41:21. | :41:27. | |
clearly cannot be running up debts of �60,000 in order to go through | :41:27. | :41:32. | |
the high education system. Is it not a bit rich to throw the statute | :41:32. | :41:35. | |
book at democratically elected councils and the Government who | :41:35. | :41:39. | |
were trying to make the best of an extraordinary it bad job | :41:39. | :41:43. | |
economically. What we do is sometimes, to shore up arguments | :41:43. | :41:49. | |
that might arise under a human right so acts, or the newer | :41:49. | :41:53. | |
legislation, we go back to the common law, the foundations of the | :41:53. | :42:00. | |
rule of law. We are not reading statute books, we are unashamedly | :42:00. | :42:05. | |
mining, sometimes, the rich seam that that is the common law of the | :42:05. | :42:11. | |
UK. Thank you. There we are, our three posturing | :42:11. | :42:16. | |
politicians are still with us, ready to start mouthing off again. | :42:16. | :42:20. | |
James, you have got a real problem in your Government if there is a | :42:20. | :42:30. | |
:42:30. | :42:32. | ||
successful text -- successful test case against the �9,000 cap. Phil | :42:32. | :42:36. | |
Shiner is obviously politically motivated in what he is doing. | :42:36. | :42:44. | |
denies that. Maybe what he should do is seek elected office and argue | :42:44. | :42:49. | |
in the Public Square for the pros and cons of a particular course of | :42:49. | :42:52. | |
action that the Government is taking. That is a fundamental | :42:52. | :42:57. | |
aspect of our democracy. That is the most important factor in this. | :42:57. | :43:01. | |
He might end up earning less money, but he would be held accountable by | :43:01. | :43:05. | |
the people and that is why, in our democracy, that is the most | :43:05. | :43:10. | |
important thing. In Stoke-on-Trent, those people concerned about | :43:10. | :43:13. | |
services for deaf children in schools, it turned out that the | :43:13. | :43:18. | |
court, rather than the ballot box, was more help to them. I have got a | :43:18. | :43:21. | |
very simple view, politicians make the law, they should not break the | :43:21. | :43:27. | |
law. If they are held to account by citizens taking them to the court, | :43:27. | :43:32. | |
and they are found to have acted unlawfully, then they should change | :43:32. | :43:37. | |
their approach. To give one example, here in Birmingham, earlier on this | :43:37. | :43:42. | |
year, Birmingham City Council sought to take away care from 4,100 | :43:43. | :43:47. | |
people in substantial lead. Heartbreaking cases. I know many of | :43:47. | :43:51. | |
the people myself. I was involved in driving a High Court action | :43:51. | :43:56. | |
against that, which stop that happening. Wide? Because they | :43:56. | :44:03. | |
failed to act in their -- they failed to fulfil their | :44:03. | :44:07. | |
responsibilities under the Disabilities Act. You know the | :44:07. | :44:10. | |
strains on the government to balance the books, do you have some | :44:10. | :44:15. | |
sympathy? I have sympathy for anyone who is suffering from cuts, | :44:16. | :44:21. | |
always have. There is a balance, but I would say both for central | :44:21. | :44:24. | |
government and for local councils, you must always take the law into | :44:24. | :44:28. | |
consideration and do what you have to do, because otherwise, | :44:28. | :44:32. | |
politicians become above the law and we should be making and | :44:32. | :44:35. | |
upholding the law, not just breaking the law. Councils who are | :44:35. | :44:38. | |
taken to court are taken to court because they have not done the | :44:38. | :44:44. | |
right thing. The simple point for all of you in a nutshell is that in | :44:44. | :44:47. | |
an increasingly litigious environment, Parliament, councils, | :44:47. | :44:52. | |
have to be very much more careful than it has been in drafting | :44:52. | :44:58. | |
legislation. I think that is true. Clearly processes have to be gone | :44:58. | :45:02. | |
through but we need to keep a balance that we are talking about a | :45:02. | :45:05. | |
democratic society, where politicians are elected, to make | :45:05. | :45:09. | |
decisions which they are then held accountable for at elections. That | :45:09. | :45:13. | |
is a fundamental part of our democratic process. I think it is | :45:13. | :45:19. | |
right that the equalities Act protects the disabled, women, those | :45:19. | :45:22. | |
who suffer discrimination on the grounds of their race a or | :45:22. | :45:24. | |
ethnicity, I think we should be proud of that and not complain | :45:24. | :45:29. | |
about it. This is the point where I have to say that I am in charge | :45:29. | :45:33. |