26/06/2011 The Politics Show West


26/06/2011

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Here, the workers are dusting of the placards for the strikes on

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Thursday. Will be talking to union bosses. Does the West really need

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four new police commissioners on �20,000 each? Join us for the

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Apology for the loss of subtitles for 2512 seconds

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Good morning. And welcome to the Politics Show here in the West.

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Four days to go before the great public sector walkout. The

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Government and the Union Square up for a possible summer of industrial

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action. Our ballot provides us with a right to strike action. That

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means we can legally continue with legal action in September if the

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June action is not successful. why are we paying to elect more of

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her public officials when the money has run out?

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Everybody out! That is the cry that will go up this Thursday in the

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biggest day of plan strikes and many years. The walkouts will

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affect the public sector, teachers included, in protest at

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redundancies and cuts to pensions. But it is it time for militancy or

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are we in this to go whether -- together? And will West Country

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workers struggling in the private sector have much sympathy in --

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with those fighting for gold plated pensions? First here is Paul

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Barltrop. There have been campaigns and

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protests. Now the unions fighting the coalition's policies are

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escalating the conflict. In the West, some schools are to shut and

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pickets will be outside Government offices. They say it is about all

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of those who are suffering, like Lucy Johnson, Geoff Collard and

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Linda Phillips - a teacher, a civil servant facing redundancy and a

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woman unemployed for seven months. When she got her first job in a

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Welsh a secondary school last year, Lucy Johnson never expected to go

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on strike. In terms of taking industrial action, it is not

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something I have been involved in before. This is the first time that

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ATL has long balloted far strike action. So the fact that ATL as the

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union has chosen to ask teachers to do this, it is taken as an attack

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on their profession. She did not going to it for money, but

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frustration has turned into anger for putting more into pensions.

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there is no erosion in teachers' pay and in -- and contributions, a

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decrease in teacher's monthly pay packet, then good graduates, people

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who would want to teach children in this country, will not be attracted

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to the tradition -- to the job. will be saying goodbye to his

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colleagues. June 30th is the day he becomes redundant. I will be here

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in sympathy anyway because it is just about the end of my time here.

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I will be saying goodbye to people. I will be around. Had it been a

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normal day for me, I would definitely be on strike. Temple

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Quay is home to 11 Government departments. More than 200 jobs

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have already gone. So far all one tally. That does not make it easy.

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It is scary. I have got to find some money to pay the bills. I will

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get some redundancy from here but it will not be much. It will we

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keep me going for less than one year. This is where he may end up.

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Linda Phillips from North Dorset has to make weekly visits to the

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JobCentre. She has been out of work for more than six months. It can be

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very demoralising at times and disheartening. But me being me, I

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tried to keep myself busy. I tried to do things so that I am not

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always just sat at home. But yes it can be very demoralising to come to

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the JobCentre and to get jobs. You know very well that the majority of

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the time you will not get an interview, you're application is

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not acknowledged, nothing. So week after week you come and you have

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the same thing. A former care worker, to improve her chances she

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is getting training in IT. Harp local area has their proportion of

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people who work in the public sector. There is not a huge range

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of jobs in the North Dorset area. If a job comes along, it is quite

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good. Everyone goes for it. coming days will put much pressure

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on the Government. The Prime Minister has criticised the strike

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and the role of Labour. Everyone in this country, the trade unions

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included, no we have to cut public spending, we have to get the

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deficit down, we have to keep interest rates noun. It is the

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height of irresponsibility for a shadow officers -- shadow Ministers

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officers -- opposite to say it is all right to go on strike.

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except pension reform is needed. It is one of their former Ministers

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John Hutton who has been advising the Government. I do not pass the

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believe Ministers want to provoke a confrontation with the trade unions.

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They want to find an agreement. coming clash will make that harder.

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And with more industrial action plan, the wall between unions and

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Government may only worsen. With me is the Devizes MP Claire

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Perry who used to work with the Chancellor and one of the co-

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organiser of Thursday's strike, John McAnally. John, is this

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completely irresponsible? People only take strike action when they

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have no alternative. We have mainly low-paid workers who will be asked

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to pay more or contributions. They have been asked to work till they

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are 68 and the value of their pensions, if the Government wishes

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to the model they have at the present time, will be devalued by

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20 or 30%. If you take-away the per portion of Hyde earners, it is an

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increased. How well you know if you have one on Thursday? I do not

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expect that. On Thursday, we believe it will be the first stage

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in a major campaign, which of the Government is not prepared to

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undergo say it, could lead to between 5 million public sectors

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taking strike action. How seriously are you taking this threat?

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membership voted for strike action. I think many public sector workers,

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the majority of the country, no we have a problem. John Hutton was a

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Minister in the last Government. We have a problem that in the 1930s

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when public sector pensions were set up, people may claim for 20

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years. Now they are paying for 30 years. His members did not cause

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the problem. We have a completely unsustainable pension system.

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crisis has been caused by the flankers. We had the financial

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crisis but we had a Government that spent more money than the two can

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taxes for the last 10 years. We have a problem now where we have a

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very unsustainable and unfair pension system. The lowest-paid

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workers in the public sector have had the babies and they will not be

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asked to pay an increase in pay contributions. But public sector

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pensions will be more generous than the private sector. This is unfair

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and an sustainable. A country which is the 6th richest in the world,

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today in terms of pensions, we have to 0.5 million pensioners living

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below the poverty line. 3.5 million pensioners are living in poverty.

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That has got to be wrong. There has got to be a better way. Can we

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afford it? There is an alternative. MPs will be retaining their

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pensions. The bankers will have a pension far in excess of the public

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sector workers. If we want to look at the problems caused by the banks

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and the bankers, not by private or public sector workers... People

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think that if it was some low-paid public sector workers who showed

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the negligence that the Param -- bankers showed, they would be

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jailed. White you not understand the issue. We have had the

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financial crisis but we have had a massive roll out in Government

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spending. It is unsustainable. It is not fair to have a public sector,

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that on average, earn more than the private sector and have better

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pension deals. We have to pay for that. Even after these changes, the

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average worker will have a bad -- better pension pot than the private

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sector workers. That is not there are sustainable. I am the taxpayer

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and a public sector worker. The rate of tax relief for the richest

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1% in society is double the cost of the public sector pensions. Would

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she raised such taxes? What is the plan? Let me give you a few

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examples. I pay my taxes, you pay your taxes. Tax evasion, tax

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avoidance is not being addressed. Between 122 at �130 billion a year

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is a faded or uncollected. -- �120 billion a year. John's own members

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do not believe this. One in five of his union voted for strike action.

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I think it is incredibly irresponsible when there is a

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negotiation in place, a do you think you might backfire? There is

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a very serious negotiation process in place. There is a huge amount to

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negotiation going on. To have this kind of strike Wycherley

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conveniences -- inconveniences people, is the height of

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irresponsibility when only 20% of your voters voted for it. What will

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the cost of this be if these changes go through? Most people

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only earn �20,000 a year. They will have to pay an additional �60 a

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more in terms of contributions. That might not be a lot of money to

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you. But to people... That is unbelievably insulting. It means

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the difference between... He is making the point there. We are not

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on the cricket lines. She is constantly interrupting me.

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lowest paid workers will pay nothing in terms of additional

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contribution. They have been excluded from the public sector pay

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fees. What we have now is unfair and unsustainable. 80% of your

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members know that. Let's talk about that later in the programme.

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If you're looking for a job, how about standing for election as a

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new police commissioner? You will receive around �120,000 a year plus

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perks. The idea is to elect a single person to oversee each

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constabulary. We will need one for Avon and Somerset, Gloucestershire,

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Wiltshire and Somerset. It is about handing power back to the people.

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But at what cost? Dickon Hooper reports.

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Policing is a difficult business. Managing the police, more so. But

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the Government has a plan. It wants you, me and everybody to elect

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police commissioners. They will have powers over budgets to be able

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to set the policing plan and crucially here in the West Country,

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they will be to hire and fire and chief constables. We could go to

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the ballot box next May. But to introduce these commissioners could

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cost more than �106 million over 10 years. And in Somerset, they are

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very worried about this cost. One of the reasons we are and pausing

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yet because it will cost �1 million offer in excess of that to have an

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election. That is �1 million being wasted as we would see on an

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election when we could be spending on frontline services. This is not

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broke, don't fix it. The police a authority would go of commissioners

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come in. So they are happy the Lords of block the plans. But the

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Government is fighting on. It sells Commissioners will reconnect the

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public with policing and make them more accountable. But it may offer

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pilot schemes first. Whatever happens with police commissioners,

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this is part of something bigger. The Government wants to hand power

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back to us, the people, to have her say. It is a noble idea but do we

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want it? The council here -- house here is packed with councillors

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elected here. Turnout was not great for our last referendum on moving

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to the Alternative Vote. So, it is perhaps ironic that some who fought

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against even having that referendum on cost grounds now support

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spending money on it more balance. If we do end up going to the polls

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next May to elect a police commissioners, here in Bristol, we

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will also be asked whether or not we want an elected mayor. At a cost

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of course. To hold a referendum and subsequent election, it would cost

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the council here almost �650,000. The issue is whether we think it is

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a good thing or not. Obviously, I would not want to criticise the

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idea of a referendum, asking people is always a good thing, but whether

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in the low light of interest in the past, it is justified to spend this

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amount of money. I think people will be concerned about it. We are

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having to find huge saving tax, having to cut services to the bone.

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Unless you can demonstrate they will be huge rents its for Bristol,

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people will be right and asking why we are spending this meant of money.

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-- huge benefits. In the south of the city, one man who may stand for

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mayor bought me a cup of tea and explain the financial benefits.

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There will be millions in real savings arm millions that could

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going to direct services instead of being wasted on some of the

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administration. We have a crazy system where we have local

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elections annually. That is absolutely bonkers. It has two

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costs, one it is the physical cost and the other is the cost of the

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politicians looking over their shoulders every time. You cannot

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get on running a place like that. It seems then the voting is not a

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problem for the coalition. We will not be going to the ballot box in

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future just to choose our councillors and there MPs, but

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someone still has got to pick up the tab.

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It is round to two. Still here is Claire Perry and John McInally from

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the PCAS. -- PCS Union. It was David Cameron's pet project from

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the very start but lots of people are saying what is the boy? I think

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the point is that people do not feel they have a lot of influence

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over local matters and policing. Only a third of people feel their

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voices heard a local levels. There were lots of examples from around

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the World's where people having elected police commissioners, like

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we have in London, made people feel they had a voice that was being

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heard at the Tom line of the policing service. John? I think it

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is an irrelevancy. When you consider the justice system, �2

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million will be cut over the next couple of years. 142 courts will

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shut which means people will be denied to justice and their legal -

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- in the local area. There is quite fearless. It does undermine your

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argument. The problems we have with the police force are managed by 41

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separate quangos. Policemen and women only spent 12% of the time

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out on the beat engaging with crime. There is a mountain of bureaucracy

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and micro-management. I do not think politicians should set and

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white top saying what people should beat -- police should be doing.

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What about the police authority? Can you not pick up the phone and

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they say this? He would say, Clare, I would look at that. Why should I

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be the gatekeeper for that? Why do not -- Weddle we have a directly-

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elected police commissioner who is directly accountable to the people.

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It is just another layer of baroque receive. There should be local

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accountability in terms of the police and my ears. The reality is

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that local accountability is being torn away. Local access to services

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has been torn away. Because of the changes made to the Ministry of

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Justice, legal aid is affected. Privatisation makes things more

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expensive. In terms of local accountability, local police

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commissioners are fine. There is a wholly -- a backlog of cases. It is

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being brought in house to the Ministry of Justice so they can

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sorted out. We agree and that. found something to agree on at the

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end. I kibbled for coming in. It is good to have you. That is just

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about it from the Politics Show. We are off next Sunday because of

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