Browse content similar to 10/07/2011. Check below for episodes and series from the same categories and more!
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And here in the West, in a region packed with members of the royal | :00:48. | :00:51. | |
family, should they be feeling the pinch Arshad their carriages a | :00:51. | :00:58. | |
gilded with the finest old as one MP suggests? We will be speaking to | :00:58. | :01:08. | |
:01:08. | :01:08. | ||
Apology for the loss of subtitles for 2363 seconds | :01:08. | :40:32. | |
a Lib Dem and a Republican. Join us Good morning. Do not panic, we will | :40:32. | :40:38. | |
be back in the autumn. On the packed programme Today: How about | :40:38. | :40:42. | |
this far a way to travel? But should be be spending as much on | :40:42. | :40:47. | |
the royal family? Whenever MPs think so. When I see the Coronation | :40:47. | :40:50. | |
coach being pulled through the streets of London, I want to see it | :40:50. | :40:58. | |
being pulled by the finest horses money can buy. And when -- who | :40:58. | :41:02. | |
makes the decisions when the money is Cup? | :41:02. | :41:08. | |
We welcome to the Politics Show, here in the West. Perhaps I should | :41:08. | :41:12. | |
say a royal welcome because we're discussing the monarchy. We have | :41:12. | :41:16. | |
plenty of rials to have chosen to live here in the West Country, but | :41:16. | :41:20. | |
in this age of austerity, should they face the economic pain like | :41:20. | :41:28. | |
the rest of us. I am joined by a local MP and a Republican. | :41:28. | :41:33. | |
The glorious pomp and circumstance of our monarch and the royal family. | :41:33. | :41:38. | |
Conveyed here through the streets in horse-drawn carriage during the | :41:38. | :41:42. | |
Queen's Golden Jubilee. But even then - like they are not immune to | :41:42. | :41:47. | |
the cuts. MPs are back changes to the way we find them, cutting the | :41:47. | :41:54. | |
Bill by 9% by 2015. Most MPs back them. When I see the Coronation | :41:54. | :41:57. | |
coach being pulled through the streets of London, I want to see | :41:57. | :42:02. | |
are being killed by the finest horses money can buy. I want to see | :42:02. | :42:06. | |
a gilded by the finest gold that can be bought. I want our Majesty | :42:06. | :42:12. | |
to have the finest window that can be funded by Members of Parliament. | :42:12. | :42:16. | |
That is the status of monarchy that we want and they urge the | :42:16. | :42:20. | |
Chancellor even end this time of austerity when I know we are all in | :42:20. | :42:23. | |
it together and I know the opposition spent all the money and | :42:23. | :42:29. | |
the Max doubt the credit card and all that. But I think we should | :42:29. | :42:35. | |
look after Her Majesty. Steering staff -- stirring stuff but not | :42:35. | :42:41. | |
enough on this occasion. MPs debated as demonstrators protested | :42:41. | :42:51. | |
about pension cuts. The plan has got cross-party support. | :42:51. | :43:01. | |
:43:01. | :43:02. | ||
current financing changes made clear we welcome the opportunity to | :43:03. | :43:07. | |
discuss the Nov - minute drive which we feel will be better | :43:07. | :43:11. | |
equipped to meet the royal household needs today. We will | :43:11. | :43:15. | |
support the arrangements. But the MP for North the Somerset does not | :43:16. | :43:20. | |
give up easily. For him, this is about more than the money. | :43:20. | :43:23. | |
Crown Estate are this extraordinary link with our history which makes | :43:23. | :43:30. | |
us the country that we are. When the attack that and we say we want | :43:30. | :43:36. | |
a good value monarchy, it makes Her Majesty's sound like something to | :43:36. | :43:46. | |
:43:46. | :43:47. | ||
be got from the shelf at Tesco's. - - to be bought from. Perhaps this | :43:47. | :43:52. | |
is more what he had in mind. It is high end and more expensive than | :43:52. | :43:59. | |
Tesco's. It is Prince Charles's ferry won't shop. The heart of the | :43:59. | :44:04. | |
royal family's presents in the West Country. So it seemed like a good | :44:04. | :44:06. | |
place to ask people what they thought of the royal family's | :44:06. | :44:14. | |
finances. I think some of the minor royals could be given a bit. But | :44:14. | :44:18. | |
the major ones at more than earn their keep. I would not want to put | :44:18. | :44:24. | |
the price up too much for what we pay for them. There is an awful lot | :44:24. | :44:29. | |
that they do for that money. think I would abolish them. I am a | :44:29. | :44:34. | |
Republican, I'm not a subject I am a citizen. So we should not be | :44:34. | :44:43. | |
paying any money? I agree with that, yes. Have you records -- a view | :44:43. | :44:49. | |
that is echoed. We should have control of thumb. They should be | :44:49. | :44:54. | |
taken under public ownership. Then cut -- ordinary people could decide | :44:54. | :45:04. | |
:45:04. | :45:05. | ||
how to use them. The Royals do not mind opening hospitals and so on, | :45:05. | :45:09. | |
how about less use their money so they stay open into them public. | :45:09. | :45:14. | |
is unlikely MPs would vote that through. We can expect more of this | :45:14. | :45:18. | |
next year with the Diamond Jubilee. Perhaps though on a slightly | :45:18. | :45:26. | |
tighter budget. The Lib Dem MP Martin is with us. I | :45:26. | :45:34. | |
am joined by the philosopher. You heard you coalition colleagues say | :45:34. | :45:40. | |
the finest horses, the find is gold. No expense should be spared. Do you | :45:40. | :45:46. | |
agree with them? I think some expense has to be spared. This is | :45:46. | :45:56. | |
:45:56. | :45:57. | ||
the time of austerity. Yes but, if you have a monarchy are any kind of | :45:57. | :46:03. | |
head of state, there are similar amounts of money spent on the | :46:03. | :46:09. | |
chairman presidency on Republican presidencies around the world. | :46:09. | :46:15. | |
it money well spent? It is a rotten time to be a Republican. The huge | :46:15. | :46:20. | |
success of the Royal Wedding. The royal couple been greeted in Canada | :46:20. | :46:25. | |
like the Beatles. It may not be popular. The argument has to be one. | :46:25. | :46:31. | |
It is down to finances. People do the finances in such different ways. | :46:31. | :46:34. | |
They should not on the properties and it states that they have. | :46:34. | :46:43. | |
Estimates that they have. There are all shores were Crown Estates. | :46:43. | :46:47. | |
then go to the estate and they get an allowance. We should not be | :46:47. | :46:52. | |
relying on these informal meals, we need a settlement. If we are going | :46:52. | :47:02. | |
:47:02. | :47:02. | ||
to have a monarchy, we have to work things out so it is an economic | :47:03. | :47:11. | |
model. They do ceremonial duties and no more. They have not had a | :47:11. | :47:20. | |
soulless -- soul on a share of the Crown Estates. The expense that you | :47:20. | :47:24. | |
have described as demarcate the arrangement, the whole reason we | :47:24. | :47:34. | |
:47:34. | :47:34. | ||
were debating it, is because we are debating it. We are modernising the | :47:34. | :47:38. | |
monarchy. That is appropriate and proper and will be kept under | :47:38. | :47:42. | |
proper financial controls. You have to remember there is a bit of magic | :47:42. | :47:47. | |
about monarchy. It is difficult to put a price so much. Do you except | :47:47. | :47:54. | |
that the monarchy is popular and enduring? As a philosopher, can you | :47:54. | :48:01. | |
-- have you worked out why that is? Traditions have a hold on people. | :48:01. | :48:05. | |
Why do you not embrace it? always have to despite which | :48:05. | :48:15. | |
:48:15. | :48:17. | ||
aspects of tradition we keep hold of an leave. When we talk about the | :48:17. | :48:22. | |
expenses, this is a bit of a red herring. It is not about working | :48:22. | :48:27. | |
out what is best value for the nation. There is a principle about | :48:27. | :48:32. | |
who has that the status of head of state which comes with | :48:32. | :48:35. | |
constitutional powers and roles. There is a danger we are distracted | :48:35. | :48:41. | |
about the balance sheet here. If that was the most important thing. | :48:41. | :48:48. | |
Les Stocker about the principle. On the job of the King's head, the | :48:48. | :48:51. | |
monarchy were here on they will of the people. That is a long- | :48:51. | :48:57. | |
established tradition. We have a monarchy because we want a monarchy. | :48:57. | :49:07. | |
:49:07. | :49:09. | ||
It is a very happy arrangement. That is a point. The public said no | :49:09. | :49:13. | |
way is this going to happen. That could happen with the monarchy, but | :49:13. | :49:21. | |
it has not happened. This is where popularity is a bad argument. | :49:21. | :49:27. | |
reigns by consent. That is not to say people think she has done a bad | :49:27. | :49:32. | |
job. Too often people allow their emotions to get in the way. It | :49:32. | :49:38. | |
should not be about that. We might get a mad monarch in the future. In | :49:38. | :49:42. | |
that case we would fire them very quickly. That is why I'm not too | :49:42. | :49:47. | |
bothered. I do not think we should not have one. If we did decide, if | :49:47. | :49:52. | |
the collective rule where to get rid of it, I won that is to be made. | :49:52. | :49:57. | |
Sometimes people get too carried away that yes, they like the | :49:57. | :50:05. | |
pageantry and that that they cannot divorce that. There are situations | :50:05. | :50:08. | |
through the hung Parliament where the monarch has to make decisions. | :50:08. | :50:13. | |
I know they are guided and these are trivial, we do not want to wait | :50:13. | :50:17. | |
away have a crisis when this could be important before we address the | :50:17. | :50:21. | |
issues. Back to the money side, people who go to Buckingham Palace | :50:21. | :50:26. | |
will see the place a shabby. It has not been refitted from -- since | :50:26. | :50:31. | |
1952. Is there an argument that we're keeping the monarchy to short | :50:31. | :50:40. | |
of cash? The monarchy has some resources. Buckingham Palace has a | :50:40. | :50:44. | |
difficult arrangement. It is the place where the family lived for | :50:44. | :50:48. | |
some of the time but it is also a public building and part of the | :50:48. | :50:52. | |
state in a different way. You just have to reach a comfortable | :50:52. | :50:55. | |
arrangement. That is partly what the new sovereign grant is going to | :50:55. | :51:00. | |
be about. It is going to be of her profession well as some and | :51:01. | :51:07. | |
transparency but keeping it in the style that we want to keep pet. | :51:07. | :51:17. | |
:51:17. | :51:23. | ||
In the Oldie days, the monarchy used to run the country now the | :51:23. | :51:27. | |
Parliament runs the country. But does it? Increasingly it seems | :51:27. | :51:31. | |
judges are having a say and overturning their decisions. | :51:31. | :51:34. | |
Gloucestershire County Council has been told by the courts to think | :51:34. | :51:38. | |
again about plans to cut its library services. Here is Paul | :51:38. | :51:41. | |
Barltrop. It is the clash between politicians | :51:41. | :51:46. | |
and judges, councils and courts. There have been controversial | :51:46. | :51:56. | |
:51:56. | :51:57. | ||
national occasions like the Supreme Court decision. The instigators are | :51:57. | :52:01. | |
ordinary folk. These women went to court after months of campaigning | :52:01. | :52:05. | |
to save libraries. They had protested and gather petitions but | :52:05. | :52:09. | |
had no success and will be torn to the lot. Last month a judge ordered | :52:09. | :52:14. | |
a halt to the cuts. Last month they were shrunk chord with the | :52:14. | :52:20. | |
injunction renewed and the fuel a judicial review ordered. This case | :52:20. | :52:25. | |
the show not only Gloucestershire County Council, the way they need | :52:25. | :52:30. | |
to exercise their discretions. The court has recognised today that | :52:30. | :52:35. | |
there is a very real possibility that Gloucestershire County | :52:35. | :52:39. | |
Council's actions in relation to libraries were a cut today, too | :52:39. | :52:43. | |
fast and without regard to the vulnerable. There are many such | :52:43. | :52:50. | |
challenges. This is the first to get so far. We have had such | :52:50. | :52:54. | |
support across the country. Libraries are facing unprecedented | :52:54. | :53:04. | |
:53:04. | :53:07. | ||
threat. People will be watching this case closely and it could be | :53:07. | :53:13. | |
used in other places. Lawyer's are facing similar challenges in | :53:13. | :53:21. | |
Somerset. They are increasing. There is a growing realisation that | :53:21. | :53:25. | |
the law can assist in cases like these and people approach lawyers | :53:26. | :53:30. | |
to see whether decisions being made by publican authorities, say in | :53:30. | :53:39. | |
relation to the cuts, and comply with the loss. The quality Isac | :53:39. | :53:45. | |
2010 updated laws on race relations and disability discrimination. -- | :53:45. | :53:55. | |
:53:55. | :53:55. | ||
the equality law. It all puts more pressure on the | :53:55. | :53:59. | |
leader of Gloucestershire County Council who was openly vexed as the | :53:59. | :54:06. | |
face the Med - right media after the court case. Those were | :54:06. | :54:10. | |
adamantly opposed to the cuts. They are willing to take us to court. | :54:10. | :54:15. | |
That is frustrating because at the end of the day my local residents | :54:15. | :54:20. | |
say to me, we elected due to make decisions and get on. Yet we seem | :54:20. | :54:27. | |
to have judges and lawyers trying to prevent the democratic process. | :54:27. | :54:34. | |
The reality is those savings can only goal from only one other place, | :54:34. | :54:38. | |
that his social care. They are the most vulnerable people enter county | :54:38. | :54:42. | |
who rely on the services. Gloucestershire, almost nowhere is | :54:42. | :54:50. | |
immune to the cuts. This came as a shock to the County Council. Going | :54:50. | :54:54. | |
to the cause is expensive and not good publicity. So they made a | :54:54. | :54:57. | |
dramatic U-turn regarding the future of this place. This place | :54:57. | :55:02. | |
which helps people with disabilities had been due to close. | :55:02. | :55:06. | |
The council granted are in temporary reprieve. 21 disabled | :55:06. | :55:11. | |
adults rely on the centre, among them Gary. He said what will happen | :55:11. | :55:17. | |
to us of the unit shuts. brother has campaigned hard to stop | :55:17. | :55:21. | |
the closure and with specialist lawyers, they have been preparing a | :55:21. | :55:26. | |
challenge. He fears - right he feels sure the council would have | :55:26. | :55:30. | |
lost. We felt our case was strong and the fundamental here is that at | :55:31. | :55:36. | |
the time of cutbacks, it does not excuse the County Council to | :55:36. | :55:41. | |
trample all For the rights of disabled people. They have rights | :55:41. | :55:51. | |
and the County Council has made a duty to disabled people full -- no | :55:51. | :55:56. | |
matter what the financial situation. MPs have already tackled one | :55:56. | :56:01. | |
controversial case, rushing through legislation to get through the | :56:02. | :56:05. | |
Supreme Court decision. They might find themselves under pressure to | :56:05. | :56:08. | |
take on other troubling court rulings. | :56:08. | :56:15. | |
There is much more from poll on his blog. Martin Horwood is with me. | :56:15. | :56:19. | |
Are the judges getting too big for their boots? No, I do not think | :56:19. | :56:24. | |
they are. I think it is right that ordinary citizens should field to | :56:24. | :56:27. | |
challenge politicians who are not sticking to the laws that are being | :56:27. | :56:30. | |
made by politicians originally. I think the case in Gloucestershire | :56:30. | :56:35. | |
arose because Gloucestershire County Council did not follow the | :56:35. | :56:42. | |
law. They did not consult properly, they did not take a count of a | :56:42. | :56:48. | |
equality, the impact on the poorer sections of the population. You may | :56:48. | :56:51. | |
or may not be right. They are accountable. With the voters the | :56:52. | :56:56. | |
side in that county that they messed up, they can be booted out. | :56:56. | :57:01. | |
Being accountable does not pay you above the law. We establish that | :57:01. | :57:06. | |
during the expenses scandal. People have to be accountable to the | :57:07. | :57:10. | |
electorate. But in the meantime they have to stick to the loch, | :57:10. | :57:16. | |
they cannot be above the loch any more than any order member of the | :57:16. | :57:26. | |
public. -- above the law. No one voted for the judges? No, but the | :57:26. | :57:30. | |
loss that they were enforcing were passed by politicians that were | :57:30. | :57:40. | |
:57:40. | :57:41. | ||
elected. The elected politicians decided was that of local | :57:41. | :57:44. | |
authorities take decisions like this, they have to have proper | :57:44. | :57:50. | |
regard to the library sacked. They have to do a proper equalities | :57:50. | :57:57. | |
impact assessment. They have to look at the need that the most | :57:57. | :57:59. | |
vulnerable people in my constituency make of it and they | :57:59. | :58:03. | |
have to consult properly before they take these decisions. They | :58:03. | :58:08. | |
seem to have fallen foul of all of these. The lawyer as a captain work | :58:08. | :58:13. | |
and the councils have to pay for the costs. They get further in the | :58:13. | :58:23. | |
:58:23. | :58:25. | ||
red. They have to follow proper process. Do you detect there is | :58:25. | :58:30. | |
some public concern about what the judges are doing, in particular | :58:30. | :58:40. | |
with emigration and public -- human rights? These seem to be about | :58:40. | :58:45. | |
these issues. Sometimes you have to look get the details of the keys to | :58:45. | :58:49. | |
know if it was right or wrong. People are now free to dismiss the | :58:49. | :58:53. | |
rights of human rights until it happens to be their own leisure | :58:53. | :58:57. | |
challenged and then they think they are important. It is important that | :58:57. | :59:01. | |
the rights of individuals within the legal system and the framework | :59:01. | :59:05. | |
of law are safeguarded in our society. If you just have | :59:05. | :59:09. | |
politicians playing to the gallery all the time and doing what is | :59:09. | :59:13. | |
popular in the short-term, you could end up with bad decisions. | :59:13. | :59:19. | |
Thank you very much for joining us. Before we go, Liam Fox maybe used | :59:19. | :59:22. | |
to worrying about the wars in Afghanistan and Libya but he is | :59:22. | :59:27. | |
still a West Country politician at heart. He is was some constituents | :59:27. | :59:37. | |
:59:37. | :59:39. | ||
waging war on speeding motorists. We have all got a responsibility to | :59:39. | :59:42. | |
the community in which we love to try and sort out our problems at | :59:42. | :59:50. | |
the local level. -- in which we live. It must be strange, Libya | :59:50. | :59:59. | |
yesterday, Afghanistan last weekend. This weekend Cleveland. It was warm | :59:59. | :00:05. | |
her in Afghanistan. It is a lot cooler standing in Clevedon today. | :00:05. | :00:11. | |
It is all part of what I'd do. is it from the US for this week and | :00:11. | :00:18. |