10/07/2011 The Politics Show West

And here in the West, in a region packed with members of the royal

family, should they be feeling the pinch Arshad their carriages a

gilded with the finest old as one MP suggests? We will be speaking to

Apology for the loss of subtitles for 2363 seconds

a Lib Dem and a Republican. Join us Good morning. Do not panic, we will

be back in the autumn. On the packed programme Today: How about

this far a way to travel? But should be be spending as much on

the royal family? Whenever MPs think so. When I see the Coronation

coach being pulled through the streets of London, I want to see it

being pulled by the finest horses money can buy. And when -- who

makes the decisions when the money is Cup?

We welcome to the Politics Show, here in the West. Perhaps I should

say a royal welcome because we're discussing the monarchy. We have

plenty of rials to have chosen to live here in the West Country, but

in this age of austerity, should they face the economic pain like

the rest of us. I am joined by a local MP and a Republican.

The glorious pomp and circumstance of our monarch and the royal family.

Conveyed here through the streets in horse-drawn carriage during the

Queen's Golden Jubilee. But even then - like they are not immune to

the cuts. MPs are back changes to the way we find them, cutting the

Bill by 9% by 2015. Most MPs back them. When I see the Coronation

coach being pulled through the streets of London, I want to see

are being killed by the finest horses money can buy. I want to see

a gilded by the finest gold that can be bought. I want our Majesty

to have the finest window that can be funded by Members of Parliament.

That is the status of monarchy that we want and they urge the

Chancellor even end this time of austerity when I know we are all in

it together and I know the opposition spent all the money and

the Max doubt the credit card and all that. But I think we should

look after Her Majesty. Steering staff -- stirring stuff but not

enough on this occasion. MPs debated as demonstrators protested

about pension cuts. The plan has got cross-party support.

current financing changes made clear we welcome the opportunity to

discuss the Nov - minute drive which we feel will be better

equipped to meet the royal household needs today. We will

support the arrangements. But the MP for North the Somerset does not

give up easily. For him, this is about more than the money.

Crown Estate are this extraordinary link with our history which makes

us the country that we are. When the attack that and we say we want

a good value monarchy, it makes Her Majesty's sound like something to

be got from the shelf at Tesco's. - - to be bought from. Perhaps this

is more what he had in mind. It is high end and more expensive than

Tesco's. It is Prince Charles's ferry won't shop. The heart of the

royal family's presents in the West Country. So it seemed like a good

place to ask people what they thought of the royal family's

finances. I think some of the minor royals could be given a bit. But

the major ones at more than earn their keep. I would not want to put

the price up too much for what we pay for them. There is an awful lot

that they do for that money. think I would abolish them. I am a

Republican, I'm not a subject I am a citizen. So we should not be

paying any money? I agree with that, yes. Have you records -- a view

that is echoed. We should have control of thumb. They should be

taken under public ownership. Then cut -- ordinary people could decide

how to use them. The Royals do not mind opening hospitals and so on,

how about less use their money so they stay open into them public.

is unlikely MPs would vote that through. We can expect more of this

next year with the Diamond Jubilee. Perhaps though on a slightly

tighter budget. The Lib Dem MP Martin is with us. I

am joined by the philosopher. You heard you coalition colleagues say

the finest horses, the find is gold. No expense should be spared. Do you

agree with them? I think some expense has to be spared. This is

the time of austerity. Yes but, if you have a monarchy are any kind of

head of state, there are similar amounts of money spent on the

chairman presidency on Republican presidencies around the world.

it money well spent? It is a rotten time to be a Republican. The huge

success of the Royal Wedding. The royal couple been greeted in Canada

like the Beatles. It may not be popular. The argument has to be one.

It is down to finances. People do the finances in such different ways.

They should not on the properties and it states that they have.

Estimates that they have. There are all shores were Crown Estates.

then go to the estate and they get an allowance. We should not be

relying on these informal meals, we need a settlement. If we are going

to have a monarchy, we have to work things out so it is an economic

model. They do ceremonial duties and no more. They have not had a

soulless -- soul on a share of the Crown Estates. The expense that you

have described as demarcate the arrangement, the whole reason we

were debating it, is because we are debating it. We are modernising the

monarchy. That is appropriate and proper and will be kept under

proper financial controls. You have to remember there is a bit of magic

about monarchy. It is difficult to put a price so much. Do you except

that the monarchy is popular and enduring? As a philosopher, can you

-- have you worked out why that is? Traditions have a hold on people.

Why do you not embrace it? always have to despite which

aspects of tradition we keep hold of an leave. When we talk about the

expenses, this is a bit of a red herring. It is not about working

out what is best value for the nation. There is a principle about

who has that the status of head of state which comes with

constitutional powers and roles. There is a danger we are distracted

about the balance sheet here. If that was the most important thing.

Les Stocker about the principle. On the job of the King's head, the

monarchy were here on they will of the people. That is a long-

established tradition. We have a monarchy because we want a monarchy.

It is a very happy arrangement. That is a point. The public said no

way is this going to happen. That could happen with the monarchy, but

it has not happened. This is where popularity is a bad argument.

reigns by consent. That is not to say people think she has done a bad

job. Too often people allow their emotions to get in the way. It

should not be about that. We might get a mad monarch in the future. In

that case we would fire them very quickly. That is why I'm not too

bothered. I do not think we should not have one. If we did decide, if

the collective rule where to get rid of it, I won that is to be made.

Sometimes people get too carried away that yes, they like the

pageantry and that that they cannot divorce that. There are situations

through the hung Parliament where the monarch has to make decisions.

I know they are guided and these are trivial, we do not want to wait

away have a crisis when this could be important before we address the

issues. Back to the money side, people who go to Buckingham Palace

will see the place a shabby. It has not been refitted from -- since

1952. Is there an argument that we're keeping the monarchy to short

of cash? The monarchy has some resources. Buckingham Palace has a

difficult arrangement. It is the place where the family lived for

some of the time but it is also a public building and part of the

state in a different way. You just have to reach a comfortable

arrangement. That is partly what the new sovereign grant is going to

be about. It is going to be of her profession well as some and

transparency but keeping it in the style that we want to keep pet.

In the Oldie days, the monarchy used to run the country now the

Parliament runs the country. But does it? Increasingly it seems

judges are having a say and overturning their decisions.

Gloucestershire County Council has been told by the courts to think

again about plans to cut its library services. Here is Paul

Barltrop. It is the clash between politicians

and judges, councils and courts. There have been controversial

national occasions like the Supreme Court decision. The instigators are

ordinary folk. These women went to court after months of campaigning

to save libraries. They had protested and gather petitions but

had no success and will be torn to the lot. Last month a judge ordered

a halt to the cuts. Last month they were shrunk chord with the

injunction renewed and the fuel a judicial review ordered. This case

the show not only Gloucestershire County Council, the way they need

to exercise their discretions. The court has recognised today that

there is a very real possibility that Gloucestershire County

Council's actions in relation to libraries were a cut today, too

fast and without regard to the vulnerable. There are many such

challenges. This is the first to get so far. We have had such

support across the country. Libraries are facing unprecedented

threat. People will be watching this case closely and it could be

used in other places. Lawyer's are facing similar challenges in

Somerset. They are increasing. There is a growing realisation that

the law can assist in cases like these and people approach lawyers

to see whether decisions being made by publican authorities, say in

relation to the cuts, and comply with the loss. The quality Isac

2010 updated laws on race relations and disability discrimination. --

the equality law. It all puts more pressure on the

leader of Gloucestershire County Council who was openly vexed as the

face the Med - right media after the court case. Those were

adamantly opposed to the cuts. They are willing to take us to court.

That is frustrating because at the end of the day my local residents

say to me, we elected due to make decisions and get on. Yet we seem

to have judges and lawyers trying to prevent the democratic process.

The reality is those savings can only goal from only one other place,

that his social care. They are the most vulnerable people enter county

who rely on the services. Gloucestershire, almost nowhere is

immune to the cuts. This came as a shock to the County Council. Going

to the cause is expensive and not good publicity. So they made a

dramatic U-turn regarding the future of this place. This place

which helps people with disabilities had been due to close.

The council granted are in temporary reprieve. 21 disabled

adults rely on the centre, among them Gary. He said what will happen

to us of the unit shuts. brother has campaigned hard to stop

the closure and with specialist lawyers, they have been preparing a

challenge. He fears - right he feels sure the council would have

lost. We felt our case was strong and the fundamental here is that at

the time of cutbacks, it does not excuse the County Council to

trample all For the rights of disabled people. They have rights

and the County Council has made a duty to disabled people full -- no

matter what the financial situation. MPs have already tackled one

controversial case, rushing through legislation to get through the

Supreme Court decision. They might find themselves under pressure to

take on other troubling court rulings.

There is much more from poll on his blog. Martin Horwood is with me.

Are the judges getting too big for their boots? No, I do not think

they are. I think it is right that ordinary citizens should field to

challenge politicians who are not sticking to the laws that are being

made by politicians originally. I think the case in Gloucestershire

arose because Gloucestershire County Council did not follow the

law. They did not consult properly, they did not take a count of a

equality, the impact on the poorer sections of the population. You may

or may not be right. They are accountable. With the voters the

side in that county that they messed up, they can be booted out.

Being accountable does not pay you above the law. We establish that

during the expenses scandal. People have to be accountable to the

electorate. But in the meantime they have to stick to the loch,

they cannot be above the loch any more than any order member of the

public. -- above the law. No one voted for the judges? No, but the

loss that they were enforcing were passed by politicians that were

elected. The elected politicians decided was that of local

authorities take decisions like this, they have to have proper

regard to the library sacked. They have to do a proper equalities

impact assessment. They have to look at the need that the most

vulnerable people in my constituency make of it and they

have to consult properly before they take these decisions. They

seem to have fallen foul of all of these. The lawyer as a captain work

and the councils have to pay for the costs. They get further in the

red. They have to follow proper process. Do you detect there is

some public concern about what the judges are doing, in particular

with emigration and public -- human rights? These seem to be about

these issues. Sometimes you have to look get the details of the keys to

know if it was right or wrong. People are now free to dismiss the

rights of human rights until it happens to be their own leisure

challenged and then they think they are important. It is important that

the rights of individuals within the legal system and the framework

of law are safeguarded in our society. If you just have

politicians playing to the gallery all the time and doing what is

popular in the short-term, you could end up with bad decisions.

Thank you very much for joining us. Before we go, Liam Fox maybe used

to worrying about the wars in Afghanistan and Libya but he is

still a West Country politician at heart. He is was some constituents

waging war on speeding motorists. We have all got a responsibility to

the community in which we love to try and sort out our problems at

the local level. -- in which we live. It must be strange, Libya

yesterday, Afghanistan last weekend. This weekend Cleveland. It was warm

her in Afghanistan. It is a lot cooler standing in Clevedon today.

It is all part of what I'd do. is it from the US for this week and