20/09/2012 The View

Hello and welcome to BBC Northern Ireland's brand-new political

programme, The View. We'll be here Tonight on The View it is an

economic emergency. Unemployment continues to rise. The public purse

is empty. We've been told of corporation tax cut is the key to

survival, but is that plan ever going to happen? We'll hear the

views from the head of Northern Ireland's biggest IT company and

the future Finance Minister. Is it a case of shifting deckchairs

on the Titanic as the Ulster Unionists meet here this weekend

for their annual conference? Or can Mike Nesbitt turn this ship around?

With their views on whether or not the party's course is set fair

we'll hear from programme regulars Deirdre Heenan and Rick Wilford.

will be having a frank discussion about a quiet conversation about a

terrorist shrine in the wrong place. You can follow the programme on

Twitter. The old adage goes that the only

things certain in life and death are taxes, but is the continued

uncertainty over the level of one of our business tax rates damage

our economy. Our business and economics editor Jim Fitzpatrick

examines the pros and cons of cutting corporation tax. When we

are talking about the economy, all we are really talking about is jobs

and money. Northern Ireland has too few jobs and too little money.

Westminster is cutting the amount we get, so we need to find it from

somewhere else. If we could grow private businesses, we could have

more companies, bigger companies, and have more money for everybody.

By slashing the amount businesses have to pay would incentivise

foreign companies to come here. It has worked in the Republic. Invest

Northern Ireland unveiled new jobs for software in Belfast. But on the

same day the Taoiseach announced 300 new jobs gore Gallway. More

money about the shops, bars and restaurants get a share of that,

and perhaps they will reinvest and hire more staff. It's a virtuous

circle. But there's a big problem - cost. The Treasury wants its slice.

It says we have to pay in every penny in tax that they lose. It is

not just until companies but the big guys like Tesco too. If

companies shift from GB to Northern Ireland in order to pay less tax,

we have to foot that bill too. The current tab is around �700 million

a year and it is a price Stormont isn't willing to pay. Stormont's

accused of trying to have its cake and eat it. But what's the point of

having cake if you can't eat it? Labour's shadow Minister for

Northern Ireland, Stephen Pound, joins us from our Westminster

studio. Do you believe a reduced rate of corporation tax would be a

game changer for the economy here? The simple answer is I don't know.

Nobody does. The point is there's a joint ministerial working group

which hasn't met since May or June that's crunching the numbers. The

figures about the cost to the Northern Ireland economy vary from

�200 million to �500 million. People are saying this could be

front load, so in other words there would be no benefit for two years.

Until we see what the real figures are, we don't know. That's the crux

of the problem. When there are other things we could be doing,

having a national insurance holiday, we could reverse the VAT cuts,

things we could be doing now. The problem I have with the corporation

tax cut is that it is like playing golf with one club. It may be a

wonderful club, I don't know. But by and large with an economy like

Northern Ireland the good news from Right bus shows that top ends

engineer is still active. The with an economy that skillful we need

more than one golf club. Corporation tax may be the answer

but I would suggest it is only one of a parcel of answers. So in

effect you are sceptical. And you think potential lits too much of a

gamble? I don't know. This is the real problem. For two years we had

the coalition Government talking about rebalancing the Northern

Irish mu, using the Gloag superscheme of corporation tax cuts.

With problem with having everyone in one direction is we've been

unable to look at the alternatives. Look at the condition of the roads

in Northern Ireland, the infrastructure, like Warrenpoint,

we could spend huge amounts of money to have a huge economic still

throws the area. All these things we are not doing. It is not that

I'm cynical, but I'm flailing around in the dark. My colleague

Vernon Coaker is in north Antrim this evening and people are saying

to him, how much longer do we have to wait for this ministerial

working group to come up with a suggestion? While we don't know the

shape, you talked about having cake and eat it, people in Northern

Ireland are starving for a piece of cake. They want cake today, not jam

tomorrow. You are a veteran of Northern Ireland affairs in

Westminster. What are people saying to you? Are Treasury officials

taking this potential change in corporation tax seriously? Or are

they just playing along? It is no secret there's a certain dynamic

tension between the Treasury and the executive. What I don't want to

do, I'm in a fairly minor position, but I don't want to prejudge it or

cause problems, because I prefer to make a decision when I see the

facts. The problem I have is that when somebody came one this idea

the best part of two-and-a-half years ago, there's been no movement

since then. Don't forget when Owen Patterson was Secretary of State,

he spent 18 month in opposition talking about a corporation tax

cuts, trying to move to Estonian, or Irish levels. All that

discussion, anticipation and work, you would have thought there would

be something now, instead of which there's tumbleweed blowing through

the corridors of the Treasury. No meeting since June. Northern

Ireland deserves better. Not this idea that possibly there is an

answer here that will solve all your problems overnight. I don't

think it will. Stephen Pound, thank you very much for joining us on

this first edition of The View. With me the DUP Simon Hamilton, who

is due to succeed as Finance Minister, and Bro McFerran,

managing director of Allstate, Northern Ireland's IT company. You

are going to take over the reins of office from Sammy Wilson in a

year's time. Are you pursuing a bit of a pipe dream with this one?

don't think so. If you look back over the last number of years,

Stephen Pound said it(!), this is something that has been around a

long time. A lot of people wouldn't have dreamed we would have got to

where we are, on the cusp of getting a decision on comp

radiationta. I think we've -- on corporation tax. There is

frustration that this final decision hasn't been reached at

this point. That's nothing to do with the Northern Ireland Executive

or ourselves in pushing for that. This is something we would do in

the morning if we had the chance, but it is in the gift of the UK

Government. Principally the decision has to be made in Downing

Street. We continue to push at it. We are making good progress. It is

something that we think can have a transformative effect on the

Northern Ireland economy. It is not about having one club in your golf

bag. This is one that could supplement and add to the others

that are already there, which is helping us to get the good news

that you see. It has become the Holy Grail for so many people.

certainly is a potential game changer. Various estimates put the

number of jobs into 50,000 or 70,000 if we got this between now

and 2030. That is something that would change the economic landscape

in Northern Ireland. But only presumably if the firs are right.

Not worth pursuing at any price. have to be mindful that we don't

take seech out of the Northern Ireland economy that in the short

term the benefits aren't realised and there is so much degree nith

that it would damage the Northern Ireland economy. Forgive me for

saying, but the sceptics warning this might sound like you are

positionings yourself to say down the line, however many months, this

is not going to happen, but it is not our fault. We thought it was a

good idea but we couldn't get them to play ball, it is their fault.

are negotiating with them. Do they want Northern Ireland change our

economy, I've listened to the Prime Minister, the Chancellor and others

talk about the need for us to rebalance our economy. This is the

tool we think would allow us to do that. And clearly we have to think

of the interests in terms of the public expenditure system in

Northern Ireland. We don't want to see so much taken out that the

negative effects would exceed any benefits. Bro McFerran, is that

something that you are concerned about? I think there's been a lot

of inertia around corporation tax. What we need to do now is move into

a post-corporation tax era. There is no evidence of a plan B. I think

corporation tax wasn't the only show in town. It is certainly not a

show stopper. There's other ways that we can achieve. The Holy Grail

that he talks about is job creation and economic growth. When you say

we need to move into a post- corporation tax era, do you mean

that it is dead in the water and use other solutions? To use the

common parlance, build a bridge and get over it. The indications when I

speak to anybody in business, everybody's made the assumption

that corporation tax isn't going to happen. We need an urgent plan B at

this stage. So to Simon Hamilton and his colleagues like the Finance

Minister, they need to forget about it, go back to the Treasury, say

park it, it is not going to happen? It can't just be the one pivot we

use, economic growth. We can create jobs and get economic growth in a

number of ways. Corporation tax could would have been nice had it

not had a big price tag on it. The estimates are �400 million, �450

million a year, growing to �700 million a year. I don't think we

can afford that. I don't think the voting public are going to buy it

at that stage. We need to say, are there other ways we can create the

jobs and economic growth we need to have? Just because we are pursuing

corporation tax, and everybody I meet in business thinks that having

corporation tax reduced in Northern Ireland would create jobs and

stimulate investment. Just because we are pursuing that doesn't mean

we are not doing other things. We have a fantastic skills base, a

good infrastructure, excellent communications. Those are the

assets we have that are attracting investment. But the difficulty is

people expect a great deal from it and if it doesn't happen, there is

a letdown. Absolutely, not to grant us the power to do this at a fair

and affordable price means Northern Ireland will continue economically

as we have been. You talk about our excellent skills base. We are

crying out for new people. In fact if I could get a plug in, we are

doing an open day in Derry and Belfast to attract people into our

business. There are not enough technology graduates coming out of

Northern Ireland. If we can up the number of graduates in Northern

Ireland, we sell time and talent and we are not producing enough. If

we did, that we could create the economic growth that is the imper

tiff and create a lot of jobs. Because you are here as the biggest

IT company in Allstate in Northern Ireland, with the current level of

corporation tax.Er here, creating jobs and it is not 12.5%

corporation tax. Hewlett Packard announced jobs today and the senior

Vice-President said we are here for the talent. They are talking about

40 jobs. They are here because they want the talent here. They didn't

say anything about corporation tax, nor the price they are going to

have to pay to get those jobs. We are talking about high-value jobs

that are going to create a lot of economic growth as far as that's

concerned, above-average salaries in the technology sector. If I

could make a plea, with the mothers and fathers encourage their kids

into technology subjects as opposed to turning out doctors and teachers

and all the things we turn out too many of. We need technology

graduates in Northern Ireland. know you are trying to do that as

well but maybe put more of your eggs into that basket rather than

worrying about corporation tax. pursuit of corporation tax isn't

the only policy the executive are following. But it has been built up

into this big deal. It is certainly something that if we got it, white

have a trance fom tiv effect on the economy in Northern Ireland.

much does this come down to the new Secretary of State being a cheer

leader for Northern Ireland with It is important we have a Secretary

of State who is on side. Do we have that? I hope we do. She has made

some positive noises. She says she's not here to kill off the idea

of corporation tax. We hope she's here to support us in that call.

We're here to attract high-value jobs. If you look at the south,

look in the Republic of Ireland, they have been able to attract

high-value jobs in big quantities. They have been under pressure to

cut their expenditure. One area they did not look at - they did not

increase their corporation tax rate. It might have been easy for them to

do that. They have... The Republic of Ireland spent 30 years, from the

late '50s and it was not until the '0s they started to reap the

benefit -- '80s they started to reap the benefits. We need the jobs

tomorrow. That is why you can channel skills. We need an answer

sooner or later - once and for all and then move on? If we don't get

an answer we lose the skills so we can make that quickly. We do need

that - to get this done rapidly and make those changes. Sooner rather

than later. Thank you both very much indeed. Still to come on The

View. We made a pledge, we didn't stick to it. For that I'm sorry.

# I'm sorry # I'm so, so sorry # What do our

pundits make of Nick Clegg getting Now, Mike Nesbit won the battle in

March. Six months into the job, how is the man who asked supporters to

judge him on his first 100 days doing? We dispatched our political

correspondent to find out. From disaster to triumph of. The new

Titanic is a symbol of success and renull. By this logic the Ulster

Unionists choose it for their conference. Some find it a curious

choice, for a party now led by someone experienced in public

relations.S a it left the party sinking for years in the polls, on

the defensive. It might give people like yourself - it is a wonderful

building. Mike Nesbitt told his party to judge him by his first 100

days. Day one, his first big idea unfolded during his first BBC

interview as leader. Maybe I will need to find a family who will

adopt me. I would like to live in an area of deprivation. It is

important to get a feel of what it is like. By day two, the man who

promised a better profile found his idea mocked by rivals. Although

some liked the idea, the new leader seemed to be feeling the pressure.

On May 22nd, a high-profile party member who had fallen out with the

previous leader was expelled. cardboard cut out for a leader. No

substance and no policies. I think people reject that now. June 13th -

the day from hell. Lord McGinley made controversial remarks about --

M Guinness made controversial remarks about gay marriage.

There was more bad news, with a poll suggesting the party was neck

and neck with Alliance. By August 28th, there was no discipline for

Lord McGuinness and no unity. He had quit. It will accelerate its

demise. I wouldn't say he's had a lot of bad days. He has every

attribute we need. He is savvy with the media, with the general public.

I have heard nothing in this area and I cover Fermanagh and South

Tyrone and there is nothing but backing. Critical support from a

critical constituency. Others say he should be worried. I can not

think of a day when Mike Nesbitt could say "Yes, that was the

beginning of the turn around." It hasn't happened!

One of the radio interviews when they were speaking of the economy -

that was impressive. Undoubtedly there is still goodwill towards the

new leader. There is also disappointment. Indeed one senior

party figure told me that based on his track record so far, his speech

this weekend needed to be brilliant. I think he would be the first to

say he possibly has been too cautious. I think you will see that

chase of pace. Critics say he needs to unveil strong policies this

weekend, plus work on what they say is a lack of discipline and

leadership. No friend before said that to me he reminded him of a dog

who choiceed a car, caught it, has no idea how to drive it away.

course there's time to turn the ship around before the next

critical test - the European election in 2014.

We will be at Titanic, Belfast, on Saturday for our conference

programme. I am joined now by Deirdre Heenan and Rick Wilford.

Rick Wilford, how big a challenge Mr Nesbitt faces this weekend?

Massive. All party conference speeches are important and

significant. They usually are rallies for the faithful. In this

case he knows he'll have a lot of faithless people this that room. He

has to turn them around. It is not make or break yet. If he cannot

turn around now, he'll find it increasingly difficult to do so.

He's had about 170 days now. 175. 175 at this point. Is it your view

too many have been bad days? It has. It has been difficult to pick out a

single day in the last, however many weeks it is - there is

disgruntlement in the party, there's no doubt about that. I have

spoken to some in the Assembly block who are disappointed, to say

the least. Where do they look for an alternative? There is no obvious

one. The previous stumbled on to his sword. A decent chap he was.

The M and Ms had a go - they fell. There is no obvious candidate or

alternative within the Assembly block. Does that mean they have to

look outside. There was whispering that they might look to someone who

used to be in the party and they want to welcome back? There is some

notion that the Queen across the sea, as it were, could be induced

back. What would induce her back? How do you read it? He has a huge

uphill task. It is make-or-break time. He needs to stamp his

authority here. He's in charge of a party which is bereft of ideas. It

needs to carve out a place for itself. There are so many diverse

characters in there who seem determined to do their own thing.

This is politics 101 - party management. Give the feeling of

unity. That is not a characteristic of this current Ulster Unionist

Party. I want to ask you about corporation tax. We've had that

debate this morning. No unity of purpose, it seems among politicians

n the business community, not that some don't agree. Will it happen or

not? Should it happen or not? interesting in what Simon said, who

would have thought we would get to where we are after two-and-a-half

years. How much is it going to cost us? Can we afford it? Is it a

chance worth taking? A gamble worth taking? We have no answers to that.

If you compare this to the report in Scotland, which was regularly an

liceed, they decided in the end -- analysed, they decided that

corporation tax was not good because it was too risky for the

Scottish economy. I think we'll come back to that one. Thank you

both for now. Let's get a different Now we get a take on the week's

news. The Orange Order says it is having frank discussions over the

Ulster parade. It is not having discussions with frank Dempsey. New

buss are causing chaos in central Belfast. The translink has asked

commuters to be patience. Loyalists have held a protest outside the

maize, saying it must -- the Maze saying it must not being a

saying it must not being a terrorist shrine. The authorities

are testing the same body scanners recently introduced at Belfast

International Airport. The Prison Service says airport technology

should be welcomed on the wings. Sam mi Wilson has been fined for

using a mobile phone while driving. He has been caught being an MP

while being an MLA. Peter Robinson let him off with a warning. Drew

Nelson said there is a bias against his members from the broadcast

media. That is the kind of remark we would

D what was your moment of the week? It would have to be living in a

cave not to have followed the William and Kate story. What struck

me was the hypocrisy of the red tops, so hay were lining one their

outrage. They ran out of adjectives to describe their outrage - how

revolting it was. The editor of the Irish Daily Star should be taken to

the tower with his head chopped off for publishing the pictures. The

week before the very same papers were speculating as to whether or

not Kate was pregnant. That is equally revolting and offensive. It

is the hypocrisy they do not see. Your moment? It was Mitt Romney's

speech. Last night, I was knocked out of my chair side ways by Nick

Clegg's apology. It was on the internet. I thought what a cringe-

making appearance that was, really! We've had that treatment on the

internet. I cannot resist the temptation to take another look at

# It was a pledge made with the best of intentions # Intertions.

# I'm sorry # I'm so, so sorry

# There's no easy way to say, that I'm sorry

It comes across as an iedyolt. features in your -- Idiot.

features in your Tweet of the week. It is like a married man

apologising for being unfaithful, apologising for the marriage vows.

He is saying the policy was a good one. No, it wasn't. Your Tweet of

the week The sacking of a Tory whip to use his Twitter account to

That struck me as being, summing up The View that so many people have

of politicians. I don't think the Nick Clegg apology will do anything

to redeem that situation. Looking ahead to the next week,

again you are looking at the Lib Dems. 31 years ago David Steel

addressing the liberal conference when they were in alliance with the

SDP, told his audience to prepare for Government. All Nick Clegg can

hope for is to tell them to go back and wait for the party to implode.

I am looking forward to money. I think the debate will be, can we

move on? Can we actually move to resolve this parades issue? Thank