13/10/2016 The View

Victims of domestic abuse here say Stormont is letting them down

by failing to introduce tougher legislation which would give them

On The View tonight, I'll be asking the Justice Minister to explain

the delay in tackling what she says is her number one priority.

A senior judge calls for laws outlawing psychological abuse to be

extended to Northern Ireland as soon as possible.

If the right line is an actors, then we can more effectively combat

domestic abuse. Meanwhile, victims of abuse say

existing laws are not being implemented quickly enough.

So what's causing the delay? I'll be asking the Justice Minister,

Claire Sugden, how she plans Also, tonight - could

Northern Ireland have a special status in the EU post-Brexit

if the Republic pays The Fine Gael MEP Brian Hayes says

yes, but the DUP MP Gavin Robinson And remember that bad tempered US

Presdential debate on Sunday? # No, I've never felt

like this before And having the time of their lives

in Commentators' Corner - Professor Deirdre Heenan and Newton

Emerson. Stormont has been accused of failing

the victims of domestic abuse over a new law which is in place in other

parts of the UK, but not here. One mother who suffered years

of physical and sexual abuse at the hands of her violent partner

says the law could save lives and needs to be brought

in without delay. A top judge here has also told

The View the legislation would have a big impact

on combating domestic abuse. Our political correspondent,

Enda McClafferty, has more. He was the charmer, he had the world

thinking he was lovely and once the door was closed... You see that

anger and you know it's coming and you're waiting and you're waiting.

He then proceeded to... He bit me and he stomped on me. Ceri Louise

Graham knows all about the brutal reality of domestic abuse. Five

years on from that savage attack, she is in a much better place today,

safe in the knowledge her former partner is still behind bars. Though

the physical winds have gone, the mental scars are still there. Even

though people look at that photograph of me and they go, look

at what happened to you, I think, that was the worst beating and it

was the worst thing I've ever experienced in my life. Every thing

else around it was much worse, not knowing when those beatings would

come, not knowing when he was going to sexually assault me in the

street. The most degrading, horrible things, you were just waiting

because you didn't know. I didn't know which day was going to be

witch. That fear and that control, that's worse. If the file --

psychological side of being in an abusive relationship, it much worse

than the physical. Incident of domestic abuse in Northern Ireland

have reached a new high. In the last 12 months, more than 20,000 cases

were reported to police. That is an average of 78 every day. That means

police your respond to domestic abuse incident every 18 minutes. The

majority of cases don't end up in court. That's because no law has

been broken. That could be about to change as Stormont is coming under

pressure to bring in legislation to deal with psychological abuse in the

home. Legislation already in place another part of the UK and,

according to be judged in this court, could have a big here. I can

see how perpetrators seem to realise how they can dominate and chorus and

subjugate the will of the partner without necessarily breaking an

existing law. But at the same time, ruin the life of that person. I feel

that if the right law is enacted, we can more effectively combat domestic

abuse. Judges rarely gives interviews that he feels strongly

about domestic abuse victims who don't get justice. There are all

sorts of pressure on victims. It does get frustrating when the

matter... Particularly if the defendant smirks. Add the eggs exit

the courtroom. You feel that that person hasn't learnt anything,

nothing is going to change. I have naming units here and we have a

further three units there and 15 units, all that kept for families,

everything in them for families. This is where many of the victims

who need to escape an abusive partner end up. The women's aid

shelter in Derry. Psychological abuse is a big problem, staff

matters dealing with them, long after they leave the relationship.

We have no a to address that here and it's important and I'm delighted

the UK have recognised the harm that it causes and I just wish that

Stormont would implement the law here. There are questions over

Stormont's recent record when it comes to legislating on domestic

abuse, that is because the police here have been waiting for more than

a year to use special powers to protect victims who faced an

immediate risk. This is what the then Justice Minister had to say

about the special powers when they were approved in the assembly last

year. I made provision in the just an act of 2015 for domestic brands

protection notices and orders which protect victims of domestic violence

who may be at risk of immediate harm in danger. The Department of Justice

have told us they are still working on the phased implementation of the

new powers. Legislation is slow, we know that. In particular, it is life

threatening for victims of domestic and sexual abuse. It will cause more

harm and for victims, it is not in anybody's interest, we need to step

up. Ceri Louise Graham just find it there speak that her abuser was

turned down for parole and will now be -- Ward may be released until

2020. She is hoping by then there will be greater legal protection for

domestic abuse victims and she had this message for the justice

minister, who has made tackling domestic abuse her number one

priority. Please bring it now. Not next week, not next year, as soon as

you can. It's going to save lives because mental health... This

affects your mental health so bad, I left with the condition that I

suffer with every single day because of the experiences that I had at the

hands of that man. The longer it's left, the more these people's lives

are in danger. Act on it now. Well the Justice Minister,

Claire Sugden, is with me now. Thank you for joining us on the

programme tonight. That report ended their with an impassioned plea for

you to introduce a law to deal with psychological abuse. Is that going

to happen? Yes. I'm committed to changing the law in this area. That

we see in other parts of the United Kingdom and it's an area we need to

look at in Northern Ireland. When we talk about domestic abuse, it is not

an isolated incident of violence, its actually, in some cases, it

could be days, weeks, months, even years of trauma impacted on them by

their partners. The legislation in other parts of the UK is something

that is appropriate here and something and committed to bringing

in. But when? As soon as possible. It's my number one priority. I hope

to bring it to the assembly very soon. Any kind of Tyne skill? It's

something we're working on an insurer we have to get right. The

consultation process is very much part of this and were finishing that

the next couple of weeks. We worried he began the process in terms of

legislating this. I will have to go into areas that the Justice

committee but I am committed to bringing this for word. Coercing

control will be out loud in Ireland in the next year. Something else we

don't have that England and Wales have is domestic violence protection

orders and notices, also mentioned in the report. They were legislated

for here in Northern Ireland last June. 16 months on, the PSN IRA

still waiting for the authority from your department to start using them.

Why? -- PS NI. It is something I really committed to implementing,

it's something we are going to drive forward. As I said, domestic

violence, 28,000 incidents of domestic violence a year. Why have

we not had a focus before now? It is not just about tackling domestic

violence in itself, it is about the wider impacts of domestic rounds on

society. I am finding within children and young people coming

into the criminal justice system, it is because of the trauma that has

happened in some point in their lives and that is often domestic

violence and abuse. 35,000 children in Northern Ireland this year,

potentially, will find themselves in the criminal justice system because

we did not try to address domestic violence in Northern Ireland. I am

really keen to address this. For the women that we see everyday that are

being hurt by this, this will save lives and I'm committed to doing

that. I understand the number one priority and your impassioned about

making a change, but your department, what about the phased

limitations of domestic violence orders and notices, what is the

reason for the delay? They could have been in place 16 months ago. It

is the case of the practical elements in implementing it. A lot

of work need to be done along the Northern Ireland Court service. To

get this legislation in place. It's not as simple as the legislation is

enacted and the next day we can instruct the police to do this. But

that is the case in England and Wales. Again, it's something I'm

committed to and we will work towards it as soon as we can because

these are mechanisms that will better help support victims and

we've seen that in terms of the arrangement... It is the number of

things that we need to do. In terms of legislation, I am committed to

bringing forward a domestic violence a fence around the course of control

element. Same-day cases of domestic bans being reported here every day,

that is well over 500 cases the week. Victims are losing out because

this legislation isn't currently being used. What do you say to women

watch and listen to be tonight who feel very badly let down and at real

risk by your department's failure to have implemented this particular

legislation? I don't disagree with the fact that we haven't focused on

it. Northern Ireland should be ashamed we haven't provided a focus

on this. If you chat to any police constable, they will tell you about

the many incidents we have attended throughout their career, Morgan

would have expected. It is something I do think, in terms of helping

these women, we need to look at seriously. Domestic abuse doesn't

discriminate. It happens within all sections in society, young, old, it

doesn't discriminate in terms of race, it doesn't discriminate in

terms of age. Why have we not addressed before now? That is what

I'm keen to do. Of what you need to do is start banging heads together.

I am banging those heads together. When I became Justice minister over

five months ago, my first priority was tackling domestic violence and

we are starting as conversations on those conversations began quite soon

during my time in office. It is culminating into real solutions to

those problems. I want to move on and talk about fatal fatal

abnormality. What do you make the recommendations? The report was

commissioned by both myself and the Department of Health. We will want

to take time to look at that in terms of any movement on this issue,

it will be an executive approach and myself and the health Minister will

want to look at the recommendations in terms of the report and see how

we can take this forward. When did you receive those recommendations?

Yesterday, with a health minister. We will take time consider that. In

terms of moving this forward in any way, it it will be with Phil

executive approval. The health minister said in the Stormont

chamber this week if the advisory group recommends a change to

legislation, she will act on that. Will you? I will look at these

recommendations and see what they are saying in terms of what is best

that the people of Northern Ireland. When you were a backbencher, you did

say he would support such change. My personal opinion does not matter.

That's why this group was implement it. I will take those

recommendations and we will see how we can move forward. Forgive me for

being negative in a sense are pushing you further in this, you say

you want to move forward, there has to be Phil executive agreement. Does

that mean that the GU people have a view on any change because it

doesn't want there to be a change to the current state? -- DUP. There is

a different feeling within the executive space. What has gone

before it doesn't mean we know what's going to go ahead. Have you

seen any evidence that the GU people smack position has changed? We are

mindful of delivery in terms of this mandate. The relationship between

the executive partners has been positive. The approach will be that

we can see where we can take theirs. It will have to be with executive

approval. I would go outside of that. We have to be collected on

this issue. What is the timescale on that? We will take time to consider

and consult with their executive colleagues. On the subject of

legacy, the Deputy First Minister Mehdi Secretary of State today to

discuss legacy issues, it is clear that the DUP Sinn Fein remained

publicly divided on the issue. How close do you think we are to

resolution on these outstanding issues? I don't think there is an

opportunity to progress and legacy issues. I'm not sure around the

divide in terms of the executive parties. It is clear both parties

are clear to see movement on issue. I certainly think there is

opportunity for my own perspective, we need to address this as soon as

possible. This issue is timely. That is in respect of victims. We don't

have time. I am keen we do this as soon as possible and I get a sense

that where we are in terms of this, it is the case of people finding

their feet. A new mandate, a new Secretary of State, people mad to

get their head around it so we can progress in the right way. You think

the two sides could be closer than the public believes? The

relationship between all the executive parties has been very

positive and there is each case to want to progress on this and many

other issues. Healy referred to a new mood around the executive table.

You famously talked in the assembly of the Stormont house of cards in

your head hurt the joke is at the top. Una sitting alongside those

jokers as you called them around the executive table. Did you sell out on

your principles when the DUP Sinn Fein came knocking on your door? Not

at all. The are no longer at the executive. I stand by my comments.

You were talking about the DUP Sinn Fein, not yourself. Any new

executive mandate, the mood is very positive. Anyone sat near the

executive before it had realised the ocean around it. It is very

different. Will you stick it out as Justice

Minister to the end of the mandate in May 2021? Of course I will. This

is not about me. It never was about me. It is about what I can do. Since

taking this job, a lot of people have spoken of challenges, I know

there are a lot of opportunities with myself as Justice Minister and

the new executive. We will see if that happens.

It has become a well-worn mantra since the EU referendum -

no return to the borders of the past.

As yet it remains unclear how that might be achieved,

but now a Dublin MEP has called for Northern Ireland to be granted

special status as an associate member of the EU

with the Republic paying the membership dues.

So how might that go down with unionists here?

Earlier, I spoke to the Fine Gael MEP, Brian Hayes,

and the DUP MP, Gavin Robinson,

and I started by asking Mr Hayes

Well, I think there should be a flexible arrangement provided. It

would require the support of the British government and the parties

in Northern Ireland. There are many circumstances across the European

Union were different countries have different relationships with the

European Union. The case of the Isle of Man, for instance, Gibraltar,

Greenland and Denmark. Different kinds of arrangements are put in

place. I think there are very strong arguments, in terms of developing

the Northern Ireland economy, developing the all Ireland economy

we can put to Europe. But what is important here is we need to bring

some certainty to the economic situation. The Prime Minister has

said she intends to invoke Article 50 by April next year. There are no

guarantees in terms of article 50. That will be done and dusted within

a two-year period. What any of us who have an interest in growing the

all Ireland economy and the Northern Ireland economy especially will want

is some certainty from all of this. It seems to me that if there was a

willingness to look at this question, and I think Brussels would

be prepared to look at it in a flexible way. No one is talking

about changing the constitutional arrangement of Northern Ireland. It

is part of the United Kingdom until such time as the majority of people

want to change that. That is the view of Northern Ireland and the

Republic of Ireland. This is an economic agreement about growing the

region as all. With that assurance that this is not about the

constitutional position of Northern Ireland, can you see merit in what

he is suggesting? I think it is good that when a proposal like this comes

up we can discuss it. But the decision was taken in the United

Kingdom was going to leave the European union. That is what will

happen. On that basis, we can discuss what trading relationships

we have with the European Union. Your party colleague Jeffrey

Donaldson is on the record as saying there is a case to be made for

special status as the island of Ireland. When we leave the European

Union, we need to ensure we have the best terms of engagement with it.

That Northern Ireland will not suffer but will benefit. The notion

that they should get special status by proxy is not something we are

interested in, nor is paying a membership fee. We don't know what

the government's opening gambit will be. We still have to wait six months

for that. We're leaving the European Union and we want the best terms of

engagement. But we will not do anything which will cause an

economic impact which would be negative to Northern Ireland. Having

a trading relationship which meant we were not trading with the rest of

the United Kingdom as equal players would be much greater damaging than

anything which is being proposed. I was encouraged by what Gavin said

and what Jeffrey Donaldson said in the Irish Times. We need to be

flexible about this. The constitutional issues are over. This

is about trying to maximise the opportunity for all of these islands

in a circumstance where there is such uncertainty. If Britain manages

to negotiate a package with the EU which allows it to stay in a customs

union, that is fine. But what happens if it doesn't? Any

circumstance where the Republic of Ireland and Northern Ireland are not

in a customs union effectively means tariffs across the border from north

to south. And I don't think anyone wants that to happen. Northern

Ireland has gone through a very difficult period over the last 40

years. The European Union has always been to the fore, going back to the

1980s and before, in helping to fund Northern Ireland because of those

special circumstances. I think we need to be imaginative about this.

Our constituents have a collective interest, trying to maximise the

benefits from Ireland as a whole. What we're talking about here is

collective Ness, a bespoke arrangement to benefit everyone on

the island of Ireland, north and South. Perhaps leave and remain. We

are in a new Europe of mutual interdependence. Do you accept that?

We have mutual relationships. What we are not going to do is enter a

trading scenario which means the exports of 8.3 billion between

Northern Ireland and the rest of United Kingdom is put in detriment

just to gain the 1.4 we have with the Republic of Ireland. The more

interesting proposal for Brian and those in Republic of Ireland who see

a benefit of a relationship with us would be similarly leaving the

European Union. Ireland has now gone from a net beneficiary of the

European Union and will become a net contributor. I think it is something

they should seriously consider. They were going to benefit from the

transatlantic trade partnership but that is not going to go ahead. I

think there is great benefit. Having told to be at the back of the queue,

we are now at the front of the queue with the United States. Just as they

joined with us, I think they should leave the those. It is something you

have raised as well. There needs to be a conversation about weather or

not Ireland can in fact remain in the EU, if the UK leaves. What I

have always said is we cannot be afraid of that question. I'm

confident that the great majority of politicians can answer that

question. I think it would be an economically illiterate strategy. In

a circumstance where the UK is leaving the European Union for us to

leave, in a circumstance where a fifth of all private sector jobs is

dependent on FDI investment. We have a passport arrangement into the 26

member states of the EU. I am interested in what has happened in

financial industries in my constituency. It was interesting to

see in Belfast over the last few years there was an emergence up I

financial sectors which was doing good work and was more competitive

than the City of London. That will be lost to Belfast and Northern

Ireland in a circumstance where they do not have access to the financial

passport. It has been clear now. If we are to see the kind of private

sector economy we need to see in Northern Ireland moving away from

the kind of situation at the moment were such a large number of people

are employed in the public sector, it has to be built on credible

economic terms, not on the terms of the old-fashioned arguments we have

had in the past. I think together, North and South, East and west, we

can come up with an arrangement were Northern Ireland gets the best of

both worlds, if it is prepared to do that in our mutual, beneficial way.

Brian haze says let's discuss this, but he says it would be a maniac

strategy based on economic illiteracy. I think it is worth

considering and there are more individuals that would be involved

in that situation and Brian alone. The growth in Ireland has been

constrained by the European Union. They used to benefit, but they were

clobbered over their arrangements with Apple. Know it will cost them

more with no fiscal or financial control, with no certainty of what a

squint up in the future, given the example of Spain and Portugal last

week who got the rug pulled from under them by the European

Commission and had 5 billion per year removed. They have lost

negotiating partner in the United Kingdom. The Irish Republic are

minnows within the EU. The required the Big Brother to put their arm

around them. That will not be there. If you want to attain economic

certainty and have the ability to develop their relationship with

trading partners around the world, then a relationship with United

Kingdom would be more beneficial. We had the highest rate of growth

within the eurozone. We have been open for business and have had

attractive and aggressive FDI strategy in getting investment into

Ireland. We have access to the EU market. We have a financial

transporting system, we speak English language and have common-law

jurisdiction. There are clear tax advantages. What I am saying is

Northern Ireland needs to move in that direction, it needs to become a

private sector economy. Together, East, West, North, South, we can

make the kind of leap forward. There are huge advantages in Northern

Ireland, as there were in the Republic of Ireland

15 years ago. There is no reason why Northern Ireland cannot have the

economics are success of the Republic.

Brian Hayes and Gavin Robinson agreeing, frankly, to disagree.

And let's find out what common ground there is between tonight's

commentators on the issues we've been discussing.

Deirdre Heenan and Newton Emerson are with me.

It probably sounds as crazy as Gavin Robinson's suggestion of Ireland

leaving Europe. There are three parts of the British Isles which are

in the customs union, but not the EU. The Isle of Man and the Channel

Islands. Crown dependencies are in the British Irish Council, which is

not being mentioned in Dublin but is coming to more notice in Scotland.

People are talking about it. He doesn't want to talk about the

Channel Islands because it sounds quite crazy. Body are a very valid

model. I think the town on the nature of the discussion in Northern

Ireland is very different from the discussion in England. There's been

a large acceptance. Brexit is going to happen and focus is getting the

best deal. For Northern Ireland, it is time for political parties to

come together and see what will be the best deal and how can we get

that? Instead of these maniac policies that are being discussed.

Some good lines from Brian haze. Is the idea of Ireland leaving the EU,

if the UK leaves, is a maniac strategy based on economic

illiteracy, quite colourful language? They don't want this idea

of the Republic leaving the EU to get out of the bottle. There could

be more air hoc arrangements for the UK and Ireland together. The states

agreed amongst themselves what they want to do and they do it, then

Europe has to change its principles. Sinn Fein are riding three horses,

part of a legal case saying there against that, having staging post at

the border re-enacting border posts, and at the same time there in

partnership with our party that are clearly wanting to Brexit. It will

be difficult to get all five or six constituent parts of the UK to

agree, but it will be impossible to get all 27 member states to agree.

We will agree before they do. We need to agree the best deal for us.

That was the first television interview with Claire Sugden since

he took over five years ago. How did she do? Very diplomatic and said

absolutely nothing. A top performance and I'm sure the DUP and

Sinn Fein will be very pleased. She's very limited in what she can

do. It is not very fair to have a go at. This course of law is going to

happen, she says, within the next 12 months? She is saying that domestic

violence is her number one priority. Given the issues that would be in

her entry, that is an interesting statement. It is an issue, but it is

abroad issue, educational and awareness raising. She's saying she

will make the changes, the problem is that the pace of change in

Northern Ireland is painfully slow. A matter of urgency translates into

two years, following 18 months of consultation. There was a degree of

frustration came out. She did admit that she wants to bang heads

together. She was too diplomatic to see that for most of her time in

office so far, Stormont has been shut over the summer. When we say we

expect to see action, we mean within months not years.

That's it from The View for this week.

Join me for Sunday Politics at 11:35am here on BBC One.

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