27/10/2016 The View

Brexit, legacy and paramilitarism - on The View tonight,

I'll be asking the Secretary of State, James Brokenshire,

how he's getting to grips with politics, Northern Ireland style.

Three months into the job and with an overflowing in-tray,

How will the border look after Brexit?

Will London be able to maintain good relations with Dublin?

Has he withheld money from the Executive

And are we any closer to solving outstanding legacy issues?

A standing ovation for Colum Eastwood

at the Ulster Unionist Party conference -

so what are the chances of Sinn Fein and the DUP following suit?

There has been no reciprocal in. That is a source of great deal of

discontent and concern. We have a party conference, we have an array

of speakers from the DUP, and we don't have to go out and invite

others to come in. As the Justice Minister scraps plans

to close courthouses, I'll be asking was it a good

decision and what they make of Arlene Foster again ruling

out same-sex marriage. As we know, politics

is a serious business. So what's been tickling them

in the House of Commons this week? And hoping they can keep it together

in Commentators' Corner, it's Fionnuala O'Connor

and Alex Kane. In his first public statement

as Secretary of State back in July, James Brokenshire said progress

on legacy issues But in reality it's a long list,

ranging from the challenge of overseeing Brexit

to tackling paramilitarism. When Mr Brokenshire came

into the studio earlier for his first interview on The View,

I began by asking him why he still hasn't released

the funding for inquests into some of the most controversial

Troubles-related killings. I am yet to hear from the Executive

in relation to their plans for this. I don't see it as simply about the

financial issue. The Lord Chief Justice has made it clear that the

money should be released as quick as possible. When you look at the

number of inquest that are required, it is more than simply look at this

in terms of money. It is about how the system needs to be reform. This

is the discussion I'm having with the Executive, back Department of

Justice. What is it that he does not understand when he said you are in

serious danger of missing an opportunity, a once-in-a-lifetime

opportunity to Jemma Cooper lease the money, get started on the legacy

in quests. I want to make regress in relation to this but I want to see

that this is done properly, to give that sense of answers being given to

the families, to the victims in this way. That is why it is about we have

a system that does not work effectively to do at that. There is

a need for reform as to how you are able to manage the inquest system,

which the Lord Chief Justice himself referred to. You are at the joint

ministerial meeting on Monday. Today's headline was, you Brexit, we

remain. Did you get that sense inside another ten on Monday? It was

a constructive session because we set out a plan, a pathway to make

sure that the Executive was engaged in the process that we are moving

board with oppose discussion. I campaigned for remain myself, but

that judgment has been taken, that UK wide view has been taken. But 56%

people in Northern Ireland voted to remain. We have got to work

together, to get the right outcome for Northern Ireland within the UK.

What does that mean? What that means, and the committee set up this

approach with a new arrangement, whereby we will be meeting regularly

with the Executive and other devolved administrations as well to

understand properly the issue is relevant here in Northern Ireland

and to get the best outcome, recognising, yes, those issues over

the border, those over the single electricity market, to make sure we

are making sure we get a positive future for Northern Ireland with

those new arrangements. The key question that people are talking

about, special status for Northern Ireland. Is that on your radar?

Apart from the two Main unionist parties, the unrest is around

pushing for special status for the island of Ireland. Is that some

think you are prepared to consider? What is on my radar is the unique

issues we face here in Northern Ireland. It is that issue by issue

approach that we will be taking forward in discussion with the

Executive, in discussion with the Irish government as well, to make

sure that we do get the best outcome for Northern Ireland through the

negotiations, as we look to the future. Is it possible that Northern

Ireland could have special status and could remain in the United

Kingdom but also have a special bespoke status with the EU in

future? Is that a possibility? It is difficult to see how one part of the

United Kingdom could be within the EU... But is it possible? It is

difficult to see how that would be the case. Are you prepared to

consider it? The Prime Minister has said very clearly that we will

listen to representations that the Executive to make to us. That is why

we set up the joint ministerial committee in the way we have, where

will be meeting regularly to shape that negotiation and provide

oversight is that goes ahead. There is a high level of collaboration

between you and the Irish government on measures to control immigration.

You are on the record, discussing that. Why did Enda Kenny, the

Taoiseach, tell the Dail this week that we do not know yet what the

British government is looking for here? Do you know what you're

looking for? What I have said is that there is good working in

relation to the Common travel area. The meetings that I previously had

with Francis fits Gerald -- Francis Pitts Gerald in regards to that,

provided a framework that can support that. I was talking about

the Tom -- Common travel area. There is work that the Irish government is

doing. What were you picking about in your own head, if not publicly,

about the ball the ports could play? The Irish government does not seem

to understand. The statements they made was that they recognised and

supported the joint working that we're doing to strengthen the Common

travel area. That is not what the Taoiseach said yesterday. If you

look at what the Taoiseach was saying, it was something slightly

different, and he does recognise the work we're doing together to

strengthen the position of citizens here in Northern Ireland and the

Republic for those who looking to abuse travel, how we're thinking

about smart data, to guard against criminality. Let me ask you another

question which cuts to the chase. Do you see or all in negotiations, as

picking up for the best interests of Northern Ireland, always your job --

is your job to make sure that the Government writ is running true on

the streets of Northern Ireland? My job is to get the best deal for

Northern Ireland, I work among side the Executive, the First Minister

and Deputy First Minister. It is how we get the best deal for Northern

Ireland, how we ensure that no special circumstances are

represented in the discussions, into the negotiations was that we have

put this new mechanism in place to do so. I look forward to continuing

to work alongside the First Minister and Deputy First Minister without

intent, to create the new bright future for Northern Ireland, within

the UK, but outside of the U. You also need to represent the views and

aspirations of those individuals who live in Northern Ireland, who voted

to remain and who regard themselves as Irish and hold Irish passports

and to see things very differently from the way you clearly see them.

That is why I had been clear in saying that we uphold the agreement

that we are party to, the Belfast agreement and subsequent agreements,

that we stand by that. Therefore the principles, the structures that are

bad, that will be part of the work as we look to the negotiations

ahead. A lot of Irish nationalists and republicans are saying that that

means accepting that this part of the island of Ireland remained in

the European Union. I don't except the line of argument to say that the

agreements were predicated on joining the EU. That is what they

believe! That may be a view that they express. It is. We must adhere

to the agreements. We must maintain those owing board into the

negotiations ahead and after their departure from the EU. It is that

commitment that we give is a government in maintaining and

upholding the principles. But that is the basis of the argument that

those politicians in Northern Ireland and the Republic of Ireland

put forward as their reason for saying there needs to be special

status for the silent and, in particular, for this part of the

island. You don't understand that. You don't except it? The point I

made is that the agreements were not in our view judged on the basis of

joint EU membership. Yes, there are specific circumstances will stop

yes, there are frameworks there to underpin the relationships that we

have here in Northern Ireland and the principle of consent that we

abide by. The point is, it is getting the best deal we spoke

about, how will air on specific circumstances and factors that go

beyond issues of the border, while we are working with the Executive

and the first and Debbie give First Minister to get those issues onto

the table and reflected in a UK wide negotiation to get that positive

view. The Executive's action plan and tackling paramilitaries has been

in the press in recent days. You waiting to release money into that

plan? What I did in the first few days of my point, the new strategy

of the Executive has been set up. We're working with the Executive as

they want to work through that detail, in their bid they will be

making to the UK government. It is a simple question. Have you withheld

money? Have you been asked for money that you have withheld? We have not

been asked for money. But is the point. The Executive are still

working through an amber through -- a number of projects to make sure

the money is spent effectively. The change needs to board about that we

want to see. In the Stormont Assembly this week, it was said that

the London, is blocking the release of ?5 million of funding to do this

issue, to fund the action plan. He get that from? The point is we are

working with the Executive to see that money is being used

effectively, properly, and they want to come to us with programmes that

are worked up that we can release money again. So where is that 5

million at the moment? The money is committed. We have a 25 million

commitment to the Executive with regards to Parramatta --

paramilitaries. This money may be spent over another of years and a

slightly more profiled way. You did not ask for more detail? We have

been working with the Acer to say, if you want that money released, the

programmes you are developing... The leader of the Aussie Unionist party

said that the Executive that is home mark and you have said, not good

enough, go away and fix that and come back when you have got it

right. It is a partnership approach we have taken in relation to this.

That is why setting up the new IRC which is coming through in relation

to that. I want that to be up and running by the end of the year. That

is ordering people to act out, galvanising activity. But it is

about getting the projects right and delivering real change in

communities that have been affected by paramilitaries. That is what

counts. It is seen that the arty and that change. Tackling paramilitaries

is a big issue for a lot of people in this part of the world. What kind

of conditions do a disease need to see before dealing with gatekeepers

in certain parts of Northern Ireland? I have been clear in the

statements that I have made that it has no part in Northern Ireland,

never has done is never should do in the future. Therefore, what I want

to see is that we have got programmes and projects that are

there, we are looking carefully as to how that delivers effective

change on the ground. That is why we had been working with the Executive

in the way we have and why I don't want to see communities that are

blighted, people's lives are being held back because of paramilitaries

and the malign influence that has, and the sense of hope and

opportunity that some people are then I dove at the moment because of

that activity. You will be aware of the controversy around the funding

of one group. The Executive gave money to a group whose Chief

Executive said they did not give a dam about the Northern Ireland. He

was talking about homeland security for his area. I am clear that the

Homeland Security in Northern Ireland is the PSNI, the security

services and the agencies that are ensuring we have safety and

security, day in, day out. The point I make in relation to funds and how

we want to get that positive sense of the monies that are standing

there, the ?25 million, is to see change, how we can bring about that

change and white I think the Executive is right in wanted to

develop another of these projects in more detail.

Is it appropriate for a man to be given money he spent years in prison

for possession of a firearm and robbery? My point is... Do you agree

with the decision? It is not for me to mark the Executive Boss homework

in that way. You are the Secretary of State, you must have a view. We

are going to be able to hold the Executive account, to galvanise

change and see that the Executive Boss programme is working in the

right way. I think that is the right framework to deliver that

scrutiny... See you are telling me you are not concerned about ?1.7

million being given to an organisation whose chief executive

spent time in prison for armed robbery and possession of a firearm?

It is for the Executive to make that decision as they did then. Their

decision was to give the money. I am asking you as the Secretary of State

what I think and what our viewers at home will regard as a simple

question. I want a simple answer. Do you agree it was appropriate do you

have reservations? The Executive made that decision. As you have said

repeatedly. The point is it is about bringing change in our communities.

Ultimately, that is the decision for the Executive, a decision they have

taken. My role is to see that we holding the Executive to account in

relation to the decisions they are taking now, how we are with them

pragmatically and in the programmes they are delivering.

James Brokenshire talking to me earlier.

Sinn Fein has been accused of turning its back on reaching

out to unionists after its negative response to the SDLP leader's

appearance at last Saturday's Ulster Unionist conference.

The charge is made by both the SDLP and UUP leaders.

it's just part of the cut and thrust of politics.

Pass if you feel you can't go on because...

# Happiness is just an illusion... Darling, reach out, reach out for

me. Cash end macro the jokes started early. I am also pretty sure in a

few years' time Gerry Adams will be telling everybody it was him that

was here. Sinn Fein's social media operation cranked into gear. This

was the response of Richard McAuley. Gerry Adams's chief spokesperson.

His appearance at the Ulster Unionist Party per was described as

strange. If we are about... I am involved in national is that is not

speaking to Unionism as a bad thing. I don't understand where Sinn Fein

are coming from in all this. It puts to bed that there is any Unionist

engagement coming from Sinn Fein. The Ulster Unionist leader made the

same point. Sinn Fein have a Unionist outreach Officer and now

they are outraged that we are reaching out to the SDLP. That is

outrageous. But Sinn Fein say it is nothing more than the cut and thrust

of politics. Are we now seeing a situation where the SDLP are

sleepwalking and getting lost by the UUP and whether there is a prospect

of them eventually coming either absorbed into the same body. What we

need to see if political Unionism stepping up to the plate, beginning

to reach out to republicanism and nationalism in the way that

Republicans and nationalism has been reaching out to Unionism. There has

been no reciprocation. That is a source of discontent and concern and

frustration within the wider republican constituency. Might we

ever see the day when the Sinn Fein leader is invited to a DUP

conference like the one due to be held here this weekend? It appeared

not. The difference between an Ulster Unionist Party breads and

eight DUP conference is clear. We have a party conference, we have an

array of speakers and we don't have to go out and invite others to come

in to tickle the emotions of our delegates. If you went to the Sinn

Fein? It is a big sign De show --, a powerful sign what we doing here.

This is how social media dealt with the issue. Sinn Fein says who the

DUP invites is a matter for them. Thank you very much. Well, I am

still alive! This is part of the West Belfast Festival, organised by

a former Sinn Fein director of publicity who himself had a pop at

the Nesbitt access last weekend. I was surprised who were -- about

those who were complaining. Why is it not OK for me to have a bit of

satire and joke to put out a tweet about making Nesbitt the fifth

leader of the SDLP since 2010? Mr Nesbitt says it is water off a

duck's back and that his relationship with Colum Eastwood is

here to stay. I think the SDLP and Ulster Unionist Party are on the

verge of agreement on all be big-ticket issues that annoy people

when they go to bed at night and wake up in the morning. The bread

and butter issues as they are called.

Gareth Gordon there with a little help from the Four Tops.

Closing any public building is often controversial and the former

Justice Minister's decision to close a number of courthouses earlier

this year certainly didn't sit well with the MLAs in whose

constituencies the axe was set to fall.

But now the gavel has passed from David Ford to Claire Sugden,

who has commuted the sentence passed by her predecessor.

With me is the Alliance MLA Stewart Dickson

and the DUP's Emma Little Pengelly.

Welcome to you both. Thank you for joining us tonight. Stuart Dickson,

the reversal of the closures has been supported by all of the other

parties though is the Alliance to just sticking up what David Ford

wanted rather than refusing to listen to wider public concerns? The

reality is that David Ford did a cost of exercise based on budgeting

in the Department of Justice, based on a business need within the

Department of Justice with a need to save money and that resulted in the

closure of, effectively, part time courthouses. These buildings aren't

used every day of the week. Therefore, the reversal by the

Justice Minister this week has added a strain of ?1 million to her budget

in the Department of Justice. Now, I don't know what she's going to do or

how she's going to find the money to do that? But that is her problem.

Well, it is but today we heard about the young offenders report with high

levels of drug abuse in there. That Wally and -- ?1 million would be

much better spent to try and work with young people with diversion

tactics and with the young offenders rather than wasting it on part-time

building. Emma Little Pengelly, where is this extra money going to

come from? Why is it the right decision in your view to ignore the

difficult decision made by the former Justice Minister? We are

clear that we think this is the right decision. This is a classic

case of a decision that shouldn't come down to pounds and pence

because although I don't sit on the justice committee I can certainly

speak about my experience as working as a barrister in Northern Ireland

and going round to many of these courthouses and issues have been

raised in relation to why she's keeping these open. For example,

issues about victims being in the same space as the criminals or the

alleged perpetrators. You have family courts where I have been, 30

or 40 families there, trying to negotiate contact or custody,

stepping over children and going from one side of the room to the

other. They are not fit for purpose. What Claire has done is she has

looked and said we have a surplus of space here, surely we can use that

in eight constructive way to look at better mediation rooms and family

room. But it comes at a cost. Have you found ?1.1 million down the back

of the sofa? The judgment or Claire is whether or not that is worth the

cost. I think protecting victims and mediating in terms of family

disputes will save money. It will give us something worth doing. Those

are all important things but the reality is that the buildings that

the Justice Minister has decided to pour public money into this week are

buildings that are exactly what Emma said, they are the buildings that

were overcrowded, they are not suitable for people with

disabilities. The reality is that she would have been far better

spending the money in terms of delivering other justice systems and

services across Northern Ireland. We also shouldn't forget that when

David Ford made the decision to close these courthouses he made that

as a member of the Executive, a collective decision within the

Executive. Now the Executive happen pressure -- have put pressure on

Claire Sugden to change her mind. It looks like Claire Sugden wasn't

prepared to stick to what had been a very difficult decision by her

predecessor. That is true of all ministers. There are changes of

ministers and ministers had different views about this. I have

no doubt sitting on Claire's desk she can see where she can use space

in terms of mediation and protecting victims. Not only that, many of

these are important buildings and centres of towns across Northern

Ireland. You only have to look at courthouses that are closed and

become a blight on the community. There is an opportunity now for

Claire, the Justice Minister, to say can there be community use? Can we

make these buildings fit for purpose? These buildings are at the

heart of communities and communities have made them clear to us. David

offered these buildings to communities and they made it clear

they didn't want them. Your party leader, Arlene Foster, has said the

DUP continued to block same-sex marriage in Northern Ireland. She

said online abuse she has received has made her even more determined

over the issue. What kind of way is that to make party politics? That's

macro policy? The DUP always been very clear about this issue. We said

it clearly during the election campaign. It was clear in our

manifesto. We have a clear position on this and that position is not

changing. But she said in this interview those people who have been

trolling her on social media are not going to influence me stop people

need to reflect on that. Her policy position is being shaped by social

media. That is what she said. She said we had a position. That

position is not going to change. No amount of conversation, argued

discussion will change that. We are clear about that. It is in our

manifesto. The issue was raised at the Executive meeting today by Sinn

Fein and blocked again today by the DUP full stop is that right? Are you

surprised? I am not privy to this but if that were to happen and the

DUP were to block that, that should come as no surprise to anybody. We

have been honest about this issue. We have a clear party position. It

is in our manifesto and we will be the feeling that through this

mandate. Stuart Dickson, Emma Little Pengelly's point is a fair one. It

is crystal clear what the DUP's position is on the issue of same-sex

marriage. We certainly know what their position is when it comes to

the use of Petition of Concern. That is no surprise either. Petition of

Concern was one of the elements that David Ford and Naomi Long attempted

to negotiate with Arlene Foster to allow the Alliance Party to come

into the government but that was the day that Arlene Foster bound her

fist on the table and said no,... DDB have been open to that. We are

open to talking about Petition of Concern. I think you have to be

honest about this. -- the DUP have been open to that. We have made it

clear that we are open to have that conversation. It is a perfectly

legitimate tactic to block policy doesn't want to see used in Northern

Ireland. What is your problem? They are not willing to have a

conversation when it affects one of their pet projects, which is to

block equality in marriage for people in Northern Ireland. It

discriminates against people in Northern Ireland. How thin-skinned

is the leadership of the DUP? The bottom line seems to be Arlene

Foster wants to use the Petition of Concern but she doesn't block people

on Twitter. No people out there will believe Arlene is thin-skinned. She

is strong and robust. She is saying that the conversations about things

we can agree on, what we can change. We have made it clear we want to

look at the economy, education and health. There is not going to be

agreement and bullying and attempts on social media to do that, I get it

constantly, all DUP people get it, we get people campaigning on this

issue. And that is not acceptable, is it?

We all receive it and we all get it. We are constantly ... On reality we

need to deal with here. There is an all-party group with the exception

of DUP do it gives an equality marriage bill in Northern Ireland.

What she has done today will not stop the introduction of that bill.

Then we can move forward and issues we can agree on. Does not look like

it will reach the statute books, is it? If she's going to block it for

five years, it will go to the court. I don't want the courts to make that

decision. We need to leave it there. And let's hear what tonight's

dynamic duo in Commentators' Corner Alex Kane and Fionnuala O Connor

have joined the team. Welcome to you both. Nice to see you

in the corner. Let us talk about the blocking of same-sex marriage.

Arlene Foster's position has hardened because of the abuse she

has suffered and social media. I think it has more to do with the

awkward conjunction with the removal of... It has been an embarrassing

thing for her and the side of her standing beside a UDA bus, as he

described itself... He has not gone. He will apparently be removed by the

organisation. In any case, an error of judgment. There is no change in

the underlying attitude. I doubt it has hardened in any way. This raft

of social morality legislation are the things that the DUP sold to

their people as the reasons why they were going to power shower. I don't

know how much of that Arlene Foster would agree with. How much do you

agree with? I agree with a lot of it. It is odd that Arlene Foster

mentioned the five years. That was not necessary in any of the

interviews today to talk about. She is exercised by this, isn't she?

What worries me about this is the Petition of Concern. We know where

it was building, to stop Unionist majorities and vice versa. It was

not put in form or issues. She cannot have it both ways. She can,

actually. If the legislation allows her to. The legislation... It is not

her fault, it has been widely interpreted by all of the parties.

The simple moral issues like that, you cannot have it both ways. We are

using a Petition of Concern... Even if it means forging the majority. It

was brought about the Executive meeting today, blocked again by the

DUP. The point before we move on is that for a lot of people in Northern

Ireland, this is a red line issue. They are not going to change their

minds on the issue of same-sex marriage and Arlene Foster believes

she speaks for those people. That is right. I'm sure she does. But she

also clearly does not speak in any kind of power-sharing attitude. This

is yet another attitude of how Sinn Fein is incapable of overcoming DUP

objections and is getting very devil out of this deal. We're into the

inquest issue immediately, once again, we have got total blocking

from the British governors representative. There are a series

of nonsensical issues. You asked if he was teasing out in his own head,

that was on the Brexit issue. I doubt he is teasing anything out in

his own head. It was not obvious. He told us he has not been asked for

money is on two different issues. He will not change. They are not

working properly, and it is not because of lack of money. We know it

is because of lack of money. Does it look like he is London's enforcer.

What we heard was a lot of heavily nuanced jibber jabber. At the heart

of that is on reality, the governments want a special deal for

Northern Ireland. That's it from The View

for this week. Join me for live coverage

of Arlene Foster's first speech as leader to the DUP conference

on Saturday from 12pm on BBC Two. Hopefully the First Minister will be

able to get through it without succumbing to a fit

of the giggles, unlike the Labour MP Helen Goodman, who's concerned

about the effect street lights are having on birds,

much to the amusement They sing for so long that they

don't have any energy left to mate. I'm sure... The Minister will

understand why this is a problem. LAUGHTER

But Brexit... LAUGHTER

Keep going! You're nearly there. Order! I wish to hear the honourable

lady at such point as she has had the opportunity to re-game the

necessary composure. Will he encourage them to buy lights from

thorns in Spennymoor... Jerry